OFFICIAL RAW Thread - 7.17.17- DALE NEWSTEAD KILLED POIT

[Destor]

Not going to touch your Ascention point because it's valid. They were booked poorly...but here's the thing: The Ascention ( WHO I LOVE) are not stars. At all. And there are nearly none in the industry today. It's not that WWF is failing to make new ones. It's that none exist. They're fighting to make guys who arent stars feel like stars and frankly no one could do better with the crop they have.


The territories died and with it we lost the tools that trained good workers. Now we have a corperate system that is trying to manufacture them and it just isnt going to work. I think it's a death spiral honestly...we'll see how the next decade goes.

[drave]

Originally Posted by Noid Holy shit, they actually made Jason Jordan Kurt Angle's son?!? Hahahaha! I can't even put into words my thoughts on this. I'll give it a shot. It's dumb, but it's dumb in this way that the Attitude era wasn't even dumb. It's dumb in a half-assed "eat up this shit" sort of way. Not offensively dumb, like some of the stuff that TNA and WWE do regularly do to insult your intelligence, but just this real soft-serving of "we really don't give a fuck." Anyone can do a Google search and work out this shit isn't real. I don't know how people are expecting to bite onto this. Give this time and distance, and this will be more WCW's Giant being the son of Andre than Taker & Kane or Edge & Christian being brothers. There was some mystique behind the Kane stuff, and there's that supernatural element there that was embedded by the time the internet really took off in the same way. When you debut playing brothers, it's just one of them rasslin' things. Whatever. It's the attempt at soap opera and emotion that is really cringy about this. That they saddled Kurt Angle with some much zany shit is part of the reason he was never the draw he could have been, and now they are going to do the same to Jason Jordan. What is the end goal of this? To get Jordan booed based on nepotism? How does it make him a babyface? Who is this angle even for? It's not for most of RAW's audience -- that older demographic who got hooked during the 80's or 90's and still watches because deep down they love wrestling. They know enough about it to not have any sort of emotional response to this sort of bullshit. The casuals aren't going to be moved by this, surely, because it's the sort of thing that feels exploitative and overly fake, so they're not going to want to be taken in by it. This seems like more booking for the children, who the WWE think are universally dumb, to make them go to school and say "Whoa, Jason Jordan is Kurt Angle's son! That must mean he's a great wrestler too!" except then cooler kids will say "Shut up, that shit isn't real, you're dumb." Then they will look it up, like kids can do now, see that it's not and not bother. I just don't get what the goal is. It seems...weak. Like they're attempting to shock people into feeling something, but they don't really know how to even do that anymore.

Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead it's just more proof of how much they hate their fan base.

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw You just know that this isn't even going to lead to a real push for Jordan..... he's going to get so far, and then be viscously beaten down by a heel (maybe Triple H) and then daddy Kurt Angle will come out of retirement to wrestle and fight Jason Jordan's battle for him and vanquish the heel that Jason Jordan couldn't because everyone from the old era is better than everybody from the current era.

In 90 days, no one will care. This is the philosophy behind the curtain.

Originally Posted by Destor Not going to touch your Ascention point because it's valid. They were booked poorly...but here's the thing: The Ascention ( WHO I LOVE) are not stars. At all. And there are nearly none in the industry today. It's not that WWF is failing to make new ones. It's that none exist. They're fighting to make guys who arent stars feel like stars and frankly no one could do better with the crop they have. The territories died and with it we lost the tools that trained good workers. Now we have a corperate system that is trying to manufacture them and it just isnt going to work. I think it's a death spiral honestly...we'll see how the next decade goes.

I wonder how much the wrestlers are just "wrestling" (showing up to do the physical part onlyand which ones are actually given freedom to develop their own personality.

For example, in today's world of scripted promos, Stone Cold would have never existed or come to fruition, I don't think. For fucks sake, their idea for him was "The Ringmaster" That's about as generic as it can get.

I would like to see them take a chance on more stars and let them do what they do. Gallows & Anderson are a good example. They both have great charisma and could "shine" more than they do currently. Not saying they are the next LOD, NAO etc. but they could be better.

I dunno, I don't watch regularly, so my input is probably sub-par at best. These are just some of the biggest differences I can see which appear to be contributing factors to the state of the current product.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Destor Not going to touch your Ascention point because it's valid. They were booked poorly...but here's the thing: The Ascention ( WHO I LOVE) are not stars. At all. And there are nearly none in the industry today. It's not that WWF is failing to make new ones. It's that none exist. They're fighting to make guys who arent stars feel like stars and frankly no one could do better with the crop they have. The territories died and with it we lost the tools that trained good workers. Now we have a corperate system that is trying to manufacture them and it just isnt going to work. I think it's a death spiral honestly...we'll see how the next decade goes.

I don't entirely agree with you. It isn't that WWE doesn't have potential stars, it's that they are poor at ascertaining who the true diamonds are. Remember when Cena and Orton were an "experiment"? They saw little value in two guys who they would shit themselves if they lost today. Rocky had a rocket up his ass before he was ready. Austin, in his own words, was a "utility worker". He wasn't seen as what he would become, and if origional plans were followed, we likely would never find out.

Eva Marie was so much worse than a debuting Trish Stratus (no rose glasses; she sucked at first) and Kelly Kelly combined, and in spite of EVERY OTHER WOMAN on the roster at the time being objectively better no matter how green they were, they were dead set on pushing her until the backlash and/or mounting evidence of potential injuries was too much to ignore. Daniel Bryan was over as fuck, and they still nearly passed on that. Don't need to argue about Zack Ryder again. They let Cody Rhodes go. AJ Styles seemed to be brought in begrudgingly. Do you really think Jinder would be getting this push if they weren't looking at this foreign market strategy heavily right now? He was there for years, released, and brought back. Hell, Braun Strowman ticks all the boxes of every goddamn thing Vince wants except for maybe a luxurious mane, and they're STILL dead set on Roman being Cena Lite even seemingly at Brawn's expense.

They have people who have talents we possibly haven't seen yet or possibly ever because we don't get to see it. Rusev on social media is a charm and a treasure, and I say that as someone who isn't exactly one of his banner wavers. Rusev on TV is a fucking boring and generic foreign heel done ad nauseum. It shouldn't have taken Talking Smack to inject life into people that they can't seem to do in actual allotted television time. It shouldn't take someone *having* to take to social media because writers can't seem to concentrate on more than one angle at a time. We could have a whole treasure trove of top talent being wasted, and we are none the wiser.