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Old 11-06-2017, 10:45 PM   #1
DAMN iNATOR
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I'm not pro-Jinder Mahal either, so that point is a total non-sequitur. I think Mahal is proven -- proven to be terrible. I absolutely consider giving him the WWE Title a mistake. So how does that make giving it to Ryder good?
It doesn't automatically make him good, but with a proper build, I could see him being very good indeed.

My point is you can't know how good he'd be as champ without actually having the guts to make that dice roll in the first place. Sure, it could come up snake eyes, or you could roll 7.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:51 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
It doesn't automatically make him good, but with a proper build, I could see him being very good indeed.

My point is you can't know how good he'd be as champ without actually having the guts to make that dice roll in the first place. Sure, it could come up snake eyes, or you could roll 7.
No, it doesn't automatically make him good. I can't, because he's awful. That's where we fundamentally disagree on this issue. I think you could have Zack Ryder go out there for 100 weeks straight and do nothing but win and no one would really care because he's not very good.

They have a large sample of the guy's work at this point. He's been under their umbrella for 11 years at this point, and he has only had a handful of good matches at best. He did get super over at one point, but it amounted to nothing tangible because when they tried, in their own WWE way, it failed. The idea that they should put the WWE Title on the guy because they "don't know" yet is a bit silly. They know that the guy isn't up to snuff.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
No, it doesn't automatically make him good. I can't, because he's awful. That's where we fundamentally disagree on this issue. I think you could have Zack Ryder go out there for 100 weeks straight and do nothing but win and no one would really care because he's not very good.

They have a large sample of the guy's work at this point. He's been under their umbrella for 11 years at this point, and he has only had a handful of good matches at best. He did get super over at one point, but it amounted to nothing tangible because when they tried, in their own WWE way, it failed. The idea that they should put the WWE Title on the guy because they "don't know" yet is a bit silly. They know that the guy isn't up to snuff.
Neither is Mahal, but they didn't let previous knowledge that he was beyond sub-par stop them from slapping it on him just the same.

Considering that the title might as well be made of cardboard right now in terms of worth, maybe it would be better that Zack doesn't win it or even sniff the main event scene for a good long while.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Neither is Mahal, but they didn't let previous knowledge that he was beyond sub-par stop them from slapping it on him just the same.

Considering that the title might as well be made of cardboard right now in terms of worth, maybe it would be better that Zack doesn't win it or even sniff the main event scene for a good long while.
Yeah, putting the WWE Title on Mahal is/was a mistake. So would putting it on Zack Ryder. And?
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Yeah, putting the WWE Title on Mahal is/was a mistake. So would putting it on Zack Ryder. And?
You can't seriously just say you know that giving Ryder a chance would be a mistake basing that on his IC and US reigns though, or even just his career to date. We call that jumping to conclusions.

To truly know if it would be a mistake or not, you have to take the chance.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
You can't seriously just say you know that giving Ryder a chance would be a mistake basing that on his IC and US reigns though, or even just his career to date. We call that jumping to conclusions.

To truly know if it would be a mistake or not, you have to take the chance.
In a perfect world, you take those chances with the US/IC title, and if they do well with that, THEN maybe you can take a chance with the World Title.

I wouldn't detest Jinder Mahal quite so much if he were US Champion instead of WWE Champion.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
In a perfect world, you take those chances with the US/IC title, and if they do well with that, THEN maybe you can take a chance with the World Title.

I wouldn't detest Jinder Mahal quite so much if he were US Champion instead of WWE Champion.
It would be preferable, but it could still damage those belts. Definitely preferable though.

Best use for the guy is part of 3MB, I'm telling you.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
In a perfect world, you take those chances with the US/IC title, and if they do well with that, THEN maybe you can take a chance with the World Title.

I wouldn't detest Jinder Mahal quite so much if he were US Champion instead of WWE Champion.
That seems to be the primary point of contention: the fact that it was literally a jump from jobber to the top champion of Smackdown inside a couple of weeks. It could have been some slight argument if he was pushed since his return to the company (Like Drew in NXT), but instead, it would be like if, somehow between now and Survivor Series, Curt Hawkins beats Brock Lesnar, and then WWE legit tries to bill him as a believable, credible champion.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
You can't seriously just say you know that giving Ryder a chance would be a mistake basing that on his IC and US reigns though, or even just his career to date. We call that jumping to conclusions.

To truly know if it would be a mistake or not, you have to take the chance.
Yes you can. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. They put a belt on Ryder, sent him out there to talk, and it flopped hard. You know that's not going to work again. You also know that Ryder is not that good in the ring and has never matured to the point where there is any reason to change your assessment of him.

You used the Jinder Mahal example to try and shoot down my point that Ryder sucks, which doesn't make any sense, but you actually just made a case for why they should put the belt on him -- because apparently you can't judge someone on their work until they have belt no matter how large or extensive your sample is.

That is a slight chance, the most tiny miniscule chance, that putting the WWE Title on Zack Ryder clicks. People from all over the world tune in to see the guy they invested a moment's interest in seven years ago with the title. Maybe he's a lot more natural and organic as a heel? Maybe he suddenly starts knocking things out of the park and having exclusively good matches. There's a possibility that could happen. But you'd be a fool to predict it, and even bigger fool to bet on it.
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