Rate The Wrestler - Day 58 - The Undertaker

Helmsphere why have you not been writing your bios on the RTWs? I think the last one you did was Cena according to my research.

[Mister Sinister]

Just lacking overall motivation, I wanted to do one on Eddie Guerrero but just didn't have the time, i'll try to do one soon again, when I have the drive to spend that much time on something

[Gone Mad]

8.5, one of my old favorites, with possibly the best gimmick, and is the best big man in the business. Why his score is lowered is his politics (he always wins!) and the last couple of years have been very blah. After the last remake of the Deadman, I think it's time for the Deadman to take a rest.

Originally Posted by Helmsphere Just lacking overall motivation, I wanted to do one on Eddie Guerrero but just didn't have the time, i'll try to do one soon again, when I have the drive to spend that much time on something

ahhh.. just curious

[asphyXy]

Ring ability: 7
Overness: 100000000000
Work rate: 10
Politics: 6
Mic skill: 9
Deadman gimmick: 10
Biker gimmick: 6
Overall rank: 8.2

The biker gimmick brought him down.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

9.8

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne I love how when a person expresses their views on a thread asking for a rating, they are shouted down and ridiculed for their opinions. I said Randy Savage was worth a 6. I've watched wrestling since '86. I think he sucked in WWE, and I think he sucked in WCW. That is MY OPINION, and I don't like to be called a jackass and accused of never having watched a Savage match simply because you jerk off to the guy and I don't find him entertaining. If anything, anyone who would bash a person for their opinion AFTER the forum ASKED for his opinion is a jackass. I just must be a total mark, huh, cause I don't agree with people as "uber" and cool as DaveWadding and a guy who calls himself a "Loose Cannon." I love how opinions are ridiculed unless they meet your own opinions. Way to try to see things from another perspective, jackasses. I've been on this board as PerfectOne before the board change since 2000, and afterwards since 12/03, and this is one of the reasons I don't bother posting. Because this board is full of jackasses who are convinced that their bullshit opinions somehow are better than everyone else's. As for undertaker, I found him boring as Mean Mark Callus. I found him entertaining as the Undertaker in the WWE's early 90's. I find him somewhat boring now. Like Shawn Michaels, he's past his prime and should be pushing new talent a little bit more. I would still mark out if he won a Hell in a Cell at wrestlemania for the title, and I would love if he retired as champ. Rating - 8

Take a chill pill dude. Funny how you were the only person who gave him below a 7. Now saying it's wrong, but if I don't know what you call good in ring skill if you say Savage sucks. Watch Mania 3 and maybe your opinion will change.

Look, your opinion is worth just as much as mine, but saying Savage sucks in the ring is like saying Rickey Henderson sucks at stealing bases.

[Loose Cannon]

oh and 8.6

[Danny Electric]

10, just beacuse of the way I used to mark out of him when I was younger. The sound of the chime and I was gone.

[MVP]

My favorite when I was a kid.

Ability: 7
Work Rate: 10
Overness: 10
Charisma: 9

Overall: 9

[Pegasus Crawford]

9.0. I honestly didn't dig his "biker" gimmick and his backstage pull isn't as bad as Hogan's or Triple H's.

His entrances are always a marvel to witness and it's one of those you just never get tired of seeing, along with his Tombstone finisher.

[The Answer]

10 maybe the greteast gimmick ever

[OssMan]

5. he is the most boring person I have ever seen in wrestling. I thought he was ok before Survivor Series, and when he came back I realized that he is a wrestler who pulls off the same thing every match. he is incredibly boring.
he is crap on the mic. it takes him like five minutes to say one line.

whatever you say Mr. ASSMAN whatever you say

[LK]

Assman, got to disagree particularly about his mic skills. Especially during his ministry days he was awesome on the mic in my view.

[Bad Company]

9

[MVP]

Taker was mad over before he ever used the mic. Gimmick alone.

[FakeLaser]

7

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Take a chill pill dude. Funny how you were the only person who gave him below a 7. Now saying it's wrong, but if I don't know what you call good in ring skill if you say Savage sucks. Watch Mania 3 and maybe your opinion will change. Look, your opinion is worth just as much as mine, but saying Savage sucks in the ring is like saying Rickey Henderson sucks at stealing bases.

Like I said, I'm not as "uber" as you. I don't give a damn about "ring skill." I care about entertainment. To me, Savage was not entertaining. To me, Benoit is not entertaining either. Neither is HHH, or Steve Austin.

People who entertained me in their matches are people like Chris Jericho, Big Show, the Rock, Christian, the Acolytes, Undertaker (used to), Booker T (in WCW), Eddie Guerrero (in WCW), Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart, D'Lo Brown, DDP (in WCW), Rey Mysterio Jr., etc. Not all of these people are the best "wrestlers." Big Show doesn't know a suplex from a souffle, and the Rock has maybe 10 moves to his name. But I find they either tell STORIES in the ring, or are just entertaining on a "OMG he's such a hoss," mentality. How you can say Randy Savage, who was always a supporting wrestler at best, is better than REY MYSTERIO JR (the man who carried the cruiserweight division in WCW and WWE), or RAVEN (next to Kanyon, one of the most innovative wrestlers in modern wrestling), or RIC FLAIR (who in NWA and WCW had more charisma in his pinky than Macho Man EVER had, period), is beyond me. I think it's stupid and shows that people today are too busy trying to prove that they are sooo incredibly smart and know all the insider info, that they can judge the "wrestling" abilities people have in a FAKE sport, and pretending that they know ANYTHING about backstage politics, when all they do know is second-hand bullshit passed down by a couple of gossips in the "biz."

I don't know where anyone here gets off on calling themselves an expert in wrestling. To hear it told here, Hulk Hogan was the biggest mistake of the wrestling world (which would explain why he is arguably the most recognizable name in wrestling); Goldberg, Nash, and Hall were wastes of money (when Goldberg and NWO WON the Monday Night wars for WCW), etc.

Like I said, you are so stuck on your own status as a "smark" or whatever the f___ you're call yourselves now, you forgot the purpose of wrestling. The purpose of wrestling in ENTERTAINMENT, so when I judge a wrestler, that's the sole basis for my judgement. PERIOD! I have watched EVERY Wrestlemania. I have watched almost every WCW ppv. And I just don't find Randy Savage entertaining. I didn't find Hogan entertaining as well, and would have scored him low as well (although many people did find him entertaining). But my score wouldn't have been do to politics I can't possibly know about except for by heresay, nor would it been because of some magical "wrestling ability" that no one can define, but everyone agrees that Benoit and Angle have and no one else does.

It's the same reason I won't bother voting in your thing, Loose Cannon, because I know my opinions will be discounted as superficial and trivial since they don't conform to your values or the "smark" values. I think the greatest moment in wrestling history was the debut of the Acolytes, when they interfered in an Edge and Christian match. It showed the reemergance of POWER wrestling in the WWE. Edge tried a spear off the top rope, Farooq caught him, and delivered an incredible spine buster. The Hardy's and E&C combined managed to get Bradshaw in a corner and Jeff Hardy tried a Poetry in Motion off the back of Christian, but Bradshaw leapt out the corner and delivered the clothesline from Hell, destroying him. THAT was my favorite moment in wrestling, period. But you don't care, because "smarks" like you will not be judging anything on entertainment, but instead pulling stuff out your a$$ to prove how much of an insider you are, even though you aren't an insider at all.

It's funny how you and others think that your opinions on wrestling are so superior to mine, or anyone else's. I would listen to JR if he disagreed with my opinion. I would listen to Kevin Sullivan. I would listen to Paul Heyman, or Ric Flair, or Taz, or Arn Anderson, or Vince Russo, or Vince McMahon, or Pat Patterson, or several others. Their opinions are probably better formed than mine because they have years of legitimate experience in the business. Compared to them, you're opinions are worth piss, and certainly no better or worse than my own.

Perhaps you should you think about taking a "grow up" pill next time you choose to attack someone's intelligence and pro-wrestling experience when you know nothing about them, and then tell them to take a "chill pill" when they confront you about it. It shows a lack of maturity that's staggering. I would expect that from a 12 year old, but not a rational adult or teenager.

[Funky Fly]

Holy shit calm down.

[CYCLOPTERSAURUS]

8.5

[Tazz Dan]

9.7

[CosaNostra]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne Goldberg, Nash, and Hall were wastes of money (when Goldberg and NWO WON the Monday Night wars for WCW), etc.

Really.

And in the end, which company bought the other?

Exactly.

[Dave Youell]

Originally Posted by CosaNostra Really. And in the end, which company bought the other? Exactly.

oh oh oh I know this one!!!

WWF bought WCW

Give me a star

[Volchok]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne Like I said, I'm not as "uber" as you. I don't give a damn about "ring skill." I care about entertainment. To me, Savage was not entertaining. To me, Benoit is not entertaining either. Neither is HHH, or Steve Austin. People who entertained me in their matches are people like Chris Jericho, Big Show, the Rock, Christian, the Acolytes, Undertaker (used to), Booker T (in WCW), Eddie Guerrero (in WCW), Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart, D'Lo Brown, DDP (in WCW), Rey Mysterio Jr., etc. Not all of these people are the best "wrestlers." Big Show doesn't know a suplex from a souffle, and the Rock has maybe 10 moves to his name. But I find they either tell STORIES in the ring, or are just entertaining on a "OMG he's such a hoss," mentality. How you can say Randy Savage, who was always a supporting wrestler at best, is better than REY MYSTERIO JR (the man who carried the cruiserweight division in WCW and WWE), or RAVEN (next to Kanyon, one of the most innovative wrestlers in modern wrestling), or RIC FLAIR (who in NWA and WCW had more charisma in his pinky than Macho Man EVER had, period), is beyond me. I think it's stupid and shows that people today are too busy trying to prove that they are sooo incredibly smart and know all the insider info, that they can judge the "wrestling" abilities people have in a FAKE sport, and pretending that they know ANYTHING about backstage politics, when all they do know is second-hand bullshit passed down by a couple of gossips in the "biz." I don't know where anyone here gets off on calling themselves an expert in wrestling. To hear it told here, Hulk Hogan was the biggest mistake of the wrestling world (which would explain why he is arguably the most recognizable name in wrestling); Goldberg, Nash, and Hall were wastes of money (when Goldberg and NWO WON the Monday Night wars for WCW), etc. Like I said, you are so stuck on your own status as a "smark" or whatever the f___ you're call yourselves now, you forgot the purpose of wrestling. The purpose of wrestling in ENTERTAINMENT, so when I judge a wrestler, that's the sole basis for my judgement. PERIOD! I have watched EVERY Wrestlemania. I have watched almost every WCW ppv. And I just don't find Randy Savage entertaining. I didn't find Hogan entertaining as well, and would have scored him low as well (although many people did find him entertaining). But my score wouldn't have been do to politics I can't possibly know about except for by heresay, nor would it been because of some magical "wrestling ability" that no one can define, but everyone agrees that Benoit and Angle have and no one else does. It's the same reason I won't bother voting in your thing, Loose Cannon, because I know my opinions will be discounted as superficial and trivial since they don't conform to your values or the "smark" values. I think the greatest moment in wrestling history was the debut of the Acolytes, when they interfered in an Edge and Christian match. It showed the reemergance of POWER wrestling in the WWE. Edge tried a spear off the top rope, Farooq caught him, and delivered an incredible spine buster. The Hardy's and E&C combined managed to get Bradshaw in a corner and Jeff Hardy tried a Poetry in Motion off the back of Christian, but Bradshaw leapt out the corner and delivered the clothesline from Hell, destroying him. THAT was my favorite moment in wrestling, period. But you don't care, because "smarks" like you will not be judging anything on entertainment, but instead pulling stuff out your a$$ to prove how much of an insider you are, even though you aren't an insider at all. It's funny how you and others think that your opinions on wrestling are so superior to mine, or anyone else's. I would listen to JR if he disagreed with my opinion. I would listen to Kevin Sullivan. I would listen to Paul Heyman, or Ric Flair, or Taz, or Arn Anderson, or Vince Russo, or Vince McMahon, or Pat Patterson, or several others. Their opinions are probably better formed than mine because they have years of legitimate experience in the business. Compared to them, you're opinions are worth piss, and certainly no better or worse than my own. Perhaps you should you think about taking a "grow up" pill next time you choose to attack someone's intelligence and pro-wrestling experience when you know nothing about them, and then tell them to take a "chill pill" when they confront you about it. It shows a lack of maturity that's staggering. I would expect that from a 12 year old, but not a rational adult or teenager.

want a tissue?

[Dave Youell]

Shouldn't this thread be closed now? it's been more than 24 hours?

[SuperSlim]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne Like I said, I'm not as "uber" as you. I don't give a damn about "ring skill." I care about entertainment. To me, Savage was not entertaining. To me, Benoit is not entertaining either. Neither is HHH, or Steve Austin. People who entertained me in their matches are people like Chris Jericho, Big Show, the Rock, Christian, the Acolytes, Undertaker (used to), Booker T (in WCW), Eddie Guerrero (in WCW), Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart, D'Lo Brown, DDP (in WCW), Rey Mysterio Jr., etc. Not all of these people are the best "wrestlers." Big Show doesn't know a suplex from a souffle, and the Rock has maybe 10 moves to his name. But I find they either tell STORIES in the ring, or are just entertaining on a "OMG he's such a hoss," mentality. How you can say Randy Savage, who was always a supporting wrestler at best, is better than REY MYSTERIO JR (the man who carried the cruiserweight division in WCW and WWE), or RAVEN (next to Kanyon, one of the most innovative wrestlers in modern wrestling), or RIC FLAIR (who in NWA and WCW had more charisma in his pinky than Macho Man EVER had, period), is beyond me. I think it's stupid and shows that people today are too busy trying to prove that they are sooo incredibly smart and know all the insider info, that they can judge the "wrestling" abilities people have in a FAKE sport, and pretending that they know ANYTHING about backstage politics, when all they do know is second-hand bullshit passed down by a couple of gossips in the "biz." I don't know where anyone here gets off on calling themselves an expert in wrestling. To hear it told here, Hulk Hogan was the biggest mistake of the wrestling world (which would explain why he is arguably the most recognizable name in wrestling); Goldberg, Nash, and Hall were wastes of money (when Goldberg and NWO WON the Monday Night wars for WCW), etc. Like I said, you are so stuck on your own status as a "smark" or whatever the f___ you're call yourselves now, you forgot the purpose of wrestling. The purpose of wrestling in ENTERTAINMENT, so when I judge a wrestler, that's the sole basis for my judgement. PERIOD! I have watched EVERY Wrestlemania. I have watched almost every WCW ppv. And I just don't find Randy Savage entertaining. I didn't find Hogan entertaining as well, and would have scored him low as well (although many people did find him entertaining). But my score wouldn't have been do to politics I can't possibly know about except for by heresay, nor would it been because of some magical "wrestling ability" that no one can define, but everyone agrees that Benoit and Angle have and no one else does. It's the same reason I won't bother voting in your thing, Loose Cannon, because I know my opinions will be discounted as superficial and trivial since they don't conform to your values or the "smark" values. I think the greatest moment in wrestling history was the debut of the Acolytes, when they interfered in an Edge and Christian match. It showed the reemergance of POWER wrestling in the WWE. Edge tried a spear off the top rope, Farooq caught him, and delivered an incredible spine buster. The Hardy's and E&C combined managed to get Bradshaw in a corner and Jeff Hardy tried a Poetry in Motion off the back of Christian, but Bradshaw leapt out the corner and delivered the clothesline from Hell, destroying him. THAT was my favorite moment in wrestling, period. But you don't care, because "smarks" like you will not be judging anything on entertainment, but instead pulling stuff out your a$$ to prove how much of an insider you are, even though you aren't an insider at all. It's funny how you and others think that your opinions on wrestling are so superior to mine, or anyone else's. I would listen to JR if he disagreed with my opinion. I would listen to Kevin Sullivan. I would listen to Paul Heyman, or Ric Flair, or Taz, or Arn Anderson, or Vince Russo, or Vince McMahon, or Pat Patterson, or several others. Their opinions are probably better formed than mine because they have years of legitimate experience in the business. Compared to them, you're opinions are worth piss, and certainly no better or worse than my own. Perhaps you should you think about taking a "grow up" pill next time you choose to attack someone's intelligence and pro-wrestling experience when you know nothing about them, and then tell them to take a "chill pill" when they confront you about it. It shows a lack of maturity that's staggering. I would expect that from a 12 year old, but not a rational adult or teenager.

it really isn't that serious... is it?

[HankScorpio]

I was going to bash his Biker gimmick and say that I don't really have any interest in him, Then I got on to thinking about his legacy in the WWE/WWF and what he has done fo the biz. = 9.4

[Loose Cannon]

wow, I didn't read a word of that, but by judging from the reactions. again.

LOL, you are really dumb if you think I am going to change everyone's votes to my liking and then put it on the front page. Really Credible site if I do that, if you ask me.

Like I said, it's your opinion dude. And I apoligize about the "jackass" comment. Was a little uncalled for.

[Loose Cannon]

And yeah, the wrestling bookers opinions are really working right now huh? Seems to me like there show is in the shits because they are not listening to what the fans want.

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon wow, I didn't read a word of that, but by judging from the reactions. again. LOL, you are really dumb if you think I am going to change everyone's votes to my liking and then put it on the front page. Really Credible site if I do that, if you ask me. Like I said, it's your opinion dude. And I apoligize about the "jackass" comment. Was a little uncalled for.

Of course you didn't read it. A five minute read is imposing - it had more than 3 paragraphs so that means it's "hard."

Oh, and the guy who made the smartass comment about WWE buying WCW - that was only AFTER Goldberg, Hall, Hogan, Flair, etc LEFT the company. So string some unrelated incidents together AGAIN - yeah, it was all Goldberg's fault that WCW folded, and, um...Iraq had WMD's too!

[CosaNostra]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne Oh, and the guy who made the smartass comment about WWE buying WCW - that was only AFTER Goldberg, Hall, Hogan, Flair, etc LEFT the company. So string some unrelated incidents together AGAIN - yeah, it was all Goldberg's fault that WCW folded, and, um...Iraq had WMD's too!

Who said anything about it being soley Goldberg's fault? Well, whatever.

No.........the reason why WCW "folded" came long before Hall, Hogan, Nash and Flair left the WCW. The death knell was that episode of Monday Night Raw where The New Age Outlaws joined D-Generation X. That was also the start of the epic feud between "evil promoter" Vince McMahon and Stone Cold Steve Austin. For the first time in 18 months, the WWF beat the weekly WCW Monday Nitro in the ratings. And thus "Goldberg, Nash, and Hall" as you have stated, didn't win anything, let alone "the Monday Night wars for WCW".

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon And yeah, the wrestling bookers opinions are really working right now huh? Seems to me like there show is in the shits because they are not listening to what the fans want.

The show is in the "shits" because the economy is in recession, there is no credible competition, they have a bloated roster that they can't cope with, HHH's input on the creative team (from the heresay, at least. No one here knows the real story behind that), poor business decisions by Vince including the XFL debacle, etc. The show isn't in the "shits" just because they aren't booking matches that you, personally, want. Contrary to popular belief, life isn't so simple that there is only one reason behind a business's lack of performance. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that, because the "smark" line is that it's all because JR is a tool and HHH is evil. Damn the man! It's all because the bookers are idiots, and if they just kept the title on people who DIDN'T DRAW like Benoit, then things would be much better! (I say he didn't draw because PPV buyrates were low when he was on, but the way he's spoken about here, you would have expected them to skyrocket while he had the title).

[CosaNostra]

Well the point of THIS thread seems to have long ago expired.

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by CosaNostra Who said anything about it being soley Goldberg's fault? Well, whatever. No.........the reason why WCW "folded" came long before Hall, Hogan, Nash and Flair left the WCW. The death knell was that episode of Monday Night Raw where The New Age Outlaws joined D-Generation X. That was also the start of the epic feud between "evil promoter" Vince McMahon and Stone Cold Steve Austin. For the first time in 18 months, the WWF beat the weekly WCW Monday Nitro in the ratings. And thus "Goldberg, Nash, and Hall" as you have stated, didn't win anything, let alone "the Monday Night wars for WCW".

WCW began beating out WWF every Monday night with the debut of the NWO for something like 70 consecutive weeks. I don't have the exact figure, because it doesn't matter. The point is, the NWO and Goldberg, among other things, kept fans interested enough that they preferred WCW over WWF. If you say otherwise, that's a perfectly valid opinion, but I would have to disagree. Goldberg in particular had a following at that time that was bordering on absurd, which is not an opinion but based on merchandise sales and marketing. To say that the NWO (which on THIS BOARD has been repeatedly argued to be one of the greatest, if not THE Greatest stable, ever) and Goldberg didn't contribute to this success is, in my opinion, not a fair judgement.

Just because WWF eventually purchased the WCW does not mean that WCW did not win the Monday Night Wars for dozens of consecutive weeks...just that the WCW product became stale after a while and they missed their opportunity to engage the mainstream fan. By the time they found working solutions, like champions such as Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner, and Booker T, it was too late as WWF had a larger following, so the product was doomed.

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by CosaNostra Well the point of THIS thread seems to have long ago expired.

Yeah, my bad. I just don't like being called a troll, a jackass, and dumb by a guy because my opinion differs from his own. I find that a bit childish, and bit stupid on a forum that's sole purpose is the expression of opinions.

[CosaNostra]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne Yeah, my bad. I just don't like being called a troll, a jackass, and dumb by a guy because my opinion differs from his own. I find that a bit childish, and bit stupid on a forum that's sole purpose is the expression of opinions.

Gonna create a new thread for this discussion.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by PerfectOne The show is in the "shits" because the economy is in recession, there is no credible competition, they have a bloated roster that they can't cope with, HHH's input on the creative team (from the heresay, at least. No one here knows the real story behind that), poor business decisions by Vince including the XFL debacle, etc. The show isn't in the "shits" just because they aren't booking matches that you, personally, want. Contrary to popular belief, life isn't so simple that there is only one reason behind a business's lack of performance. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that, because the "smark" line is that it's all because JR is a tool and HHH is evil. Damn the man! It's all because the bookers are idiots, and if they just kept the title on people who DIDN'T DRAW like Benoit, then things would be much better! (I say he didn't draw because PPV buyrates were low when he was on, but the way he's spoken about here, you would have expected them to skyrocket while he had the title).

Did I say that was the only reason. You were so high on Vince's, Patterson's, JR's, Vince Fucking Russo's opinions, that I pointed they are doing a pretty shitty job booking storylines for thier god dam show. It's been the same shit over and over and over and over for the past 2 years. They screwed up the Invasion angle with the single greatest roster of all-time, they didn't create new stars, they buried a ton of guys. The list goes on and on. Fans don't give a shit about guys anymore because they have been buried numerous times.

And what is your problem dude? Seems like your letting loose 3 years of frustration on the Internet fans or something. I'm not trying to argue with you, but you insist on taking shots at me and all of us.

[Azriel]

I think it's time to lock this baby before it gets too out of hand

[Loose Cannon]

good point. Sorry about this Helmesphere.