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Old 06-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #1
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Is there any money in working the smarks on WWE's level?
Obviously working the smarks is huge to the indy scene, but should WWE ever bother working/pandering to the smarks/IWC? Does it do them any good?

Why should they ever work us? Are we a big enough group to make a difference?

Discuss.

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Old 06-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #2
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If you mean working a story around a smark inside joke then probably not. But if you mean pushing guys and angles that pique the smark's interest then absolutely. I mean why wouldn't you?

I mean chances are no matter what you do, your regular crowd will come along for the ride if you do it right. But often you lose the smarks because they're a bunch of whiny nitpicky cunts and they're hard to please. But if you do something the smarks will get interested in, you'll have them captivated and you'll have the regular crowd interested too.

This might not be what you're getting at. I feel it isn't.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #3
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Smarks are pretty much guaranteed money. No point in really "working the smarks."
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
But often you lose the smarks because they're a bunch of whiny nitpicky cunts and they're hard to please.
This might not be what you're getting at.


Also see TNA&USA#1
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:07 PM   #5
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This question has already been answered. WWE don't pander to smarks/IWC because they're (we're) the minority.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
Obviously working the smarks is huge to the indy scene, but should WWE ever bother working/pandering to the smarks/IWC? Does it do them any good?

Why should they ever work us? Are we a big enough group to make a difference?

Discuss.
Not big at all.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:49 PM   #7
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Thing is, I'm a smark. But because I've grown up from what I was, I don't/can't watch wrestling as much, as it's not really must see TV like it used to be, for me. So most of the info I get is from the net.

However, seeing things like the NXT thing, really make me want to watch it, because they are doing something different, which draws me in. It's not about pandering to the smarks, it's about doing something outside of the bubble that makes me pay attention again.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:51 PM   #8
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Still, we're a pretty small minority.

Guys who get drunk or high and then watch Cena change someone's attitude are where the money is.

Oh, and kids too.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
Still, we're a pretty small minority.

Guys who get drunk or high and then watch Cena change someone's attitude are where the money is.

Oh, and kids too.
It's been a question that's asked many times and I still have no idea how to quantify it. Based on those times where things happen which the WWE don't want to happen, like the crowd reaction to Brock/Goldberg, it shows that there is a strong presence when people get together at bigger shows like Mania.

And also in certain markets, like the UK, New York, Chicago and Montreal
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:39 PM   #10
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They should..... because smarks are the onew who will actually pay $200 for an actual boxset of DVD's..... but until the kids stop buying $20 Cena t-shirts, I don't see it happening
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky Fives View Post
They should..... because smarks are the onew who will actually pay $200 for an actual boxset of DVD's..... but until the kids stop buying $20 Cena t-shirts, I don't see it happening
So they should...Because the people who will buy the more expensive product with the lower markup...Will buy it....Instead of the people who will buy the cheaper products in gigantic quantities with the higher markup.

Makes perfect sense.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:33 PM   #12
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WCW had a few storylines/feuds that were only understood by smarks but they were mostly because of backstage issues while the general audience had no clue what was going on or why the feud/storyline was even occurring.

Russo "firing" Hogan during the Bash at the beach ppv and Jericho's "feud" with Goldberg were a couple I could remember.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:11 PM   #13
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They should, but in a different way. ECW should have been in this form, with a show that does pander to the smarks and serves there interest, while RAW and Smackdown remain kids shows.

I still do not understand why WWE had three brands yet used them to only serve one section of the wrestling market.

Not every wrestling fan wants to see the same thing, and the WWE is big enough to cater to all their interests with different shows. This would bring more fans in and obviously therefore make financial sense.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
They should, but in a different way. ECW should have been in this form, with a show that does pander to the smarks and serves there interest, while RAW and Smackdown remain kids shows.

I still do not understand why WWE had three brands yet used them to only serve one section of the wrestling market.

Not every wrestling fan wants to see the same thing, and the WWE is big enough to cater to all their interests with different shows. This would bring more fans in and obviously therefore make financial sense.
Except if the fans they lose for appealing to a different demographic outweigh the fans they gain for appealing to the new demographic.

You know, the most probable outcome.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Except if the fans they lose for appealing to a different demographic outweigh the fans they gain for appealing to the new demographic.

You know, the most probable outcome.
Doubtful, as I'm not saying they shouldn't appeal to that demographic on 2 of their 3 shows.

Just appeal to a different one on the third.

Lets face it, did many people only watch NXT or ECW?
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Old 06-23-2010, 03:01 PM   #16
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And the ratings were comparably poor. Might be an indicator. In fact, ECW went less smarky after it couldn't sustain ratings. But hey, I'm sure ECW was retired because it did so well.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
And the ratings were comparably poor. Might be an indicator. In fact, ECW went less smarky after it couldn't sustain ratings. But hey, I'm sure ECW was retired because it did so well.
To be fair, I don't know if being smarky was its problem. After the Chris Benoit incident, ECW was treated so far below RAW and SmackDown! that it was often completely ignored. If they wanted people to care about it as a third brand, then it should have been allowed to stand as a credible entity. The ECW Championship should have at least been considered a World Title, even if it was never going to be treated as the centre of the company.

Also, ECW ran into a lot of early problems, with Kurt Angle leaving very shortly after originally being drafted over, and RVD being busted with drugs. I'm sure the original plan for ECW was to build towards RVD vs. Kurt Angle over the title, and that would have been awesome. But yeah, we never got that. We got Vince McMahon sticking his nose in and trying to push Bobby Lashley down our throats way too early.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:15 AM   #18
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One of the few positive things that came out of the new ECW, was Heyman making Big Show look like a legit monster again. ECW Big Show with Heyman at his side was by far the best heel Big Show.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:06 AM   #19
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Heyman always booked Show as a heel. It was cool seeing him do the cobra clutch backbreaker and such.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
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To be fair, I don't know if being smarky was its problem. After the Chris Benoit incident, ECW was treated so far below RAW and SmackDown! that it was often completely ignored. If they wanted people to care about it as a third brand, then it should have been allowed to stand as a credible entity. The ECW Championship should have at least been considered a World Title, even if it was never going to be treated as the centre of the company.

Also, ECW ran into a lot of early problems, with Kurt Angle leaving very shortly after originally being drafted over, and RVD being busted with drugs. I'm sure the original plan for ECW was to build towards RVD vs. Kurt Angle over the title, and that would have been awesome. But yeah, we never got that. We got Vince McMahon sticking his nose in and trying to push Bobby Lashley down our throats way too early.
Yes, even though there was dissatisfaction with ECW before the Benoit incident and it was that dissatisfaction that eventually led to it being canceled, I blame the Benoit incident too.

Excuses are fun, but they're usually just that.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Yes, even though there was dissatisfaction with ECW before the Benoit incident and it was that dissatisfaction that eventually led to it being canceled, I blame the Benoit incident too.

Excuses are fun, but they're usually just that.
in all fairness, losing 3 main event talents doesn't help... but you know, we wouldn't want to get in the way of you being a sarcastic prick for no reason.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
in all fairness, losing 3 main event talents doesn't help... but you know, we wouldn't want to get in the way of you being a sarcastic prick for no reason.
Oh Dale, must you be a hypocrite every time you try and take a shot at me?

Look, I expect folks like Noid to retcon their outlooks on ECW now that it's failed and they're trying to distance themselves from it, but if you're going to ignore that, then you're really only posting to bitch about me, aren't you?

Or did you ignore that context in your haste to be a sarcastic prick by calling me a sarcastic prick?
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
So they should...Because the people who will buy the more expensive product with the lower markup...Will buy it....Instead of the people who will buy the cheaper products in gigantic quantities with the higher markup.

Makes perfect sense.
They should find a way to do both.....
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:27 PM   #24
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There's money in working smarks on the ragsheets...that's for fuckin sure
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nicky Fives View Post
They should find a way to do both.....
They offer the DVDs. They're obviously doing both. They're just not doing it in the ratios you want, and there's no real money in doing so.

Smarks can't compete in terms of profitability with kids. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it so, nor does the state of things change because you don't like it.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:17 AM   #26
Mr. Nerfect
 
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Yes, even though there was dissatisfaction with ECW before the Benoit incident and it was that dissatisfaction that eventually led to it being canceled, I blame the Benoit incident too.

Excuses are fun, but they're usually just that.
And I mentioned some of that "dissatisfaction" and addressed it...

I also didn't "blame" the Benoit incident, I just merely pointed it out as a definitive moment in ECW's history, and it was. That is the moment they stopped considering the ECW Title a "World Title." And just look at the rest of the ECW Title history after that point. Johnny Nitro, CM Punk (his first title win at that point), Chavo Guerrero, Kane (the most credible of the lot), Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Jack Swagger (also his first title win), Christian, Tommy Dreamer, Christian and Ezekiel Jackson.

Prior to the Benoit incident, you had Rob Van Dam, Big Show, Bobby Lashley, Vince McMahon (not a wrestler's wrestler, but he doesn't hold a title unless it is to get it attention) and Bobby Lashley again. The only guy there that had not been a World Champion before was Lashley, but he was considered as the third Superman of that time.

I've mentioned that I feel the Benoit incident really damaged ECW as a project in the WWE's eyes for ages, so there is no "retcon" there. I am also not distancing myself from ECW -- I quite enjoyed the ECW product right up until the end. You make it sound like I have some sort of financial investment in ECW. It didn't work, but to say it failed because it was "smarky" is a bit ridiculous. NXT is smarkier than WWECW was. I believe ECW failed because it was made to be the third rung, and their title was often made to look like the equivalent to a mid-card belt, rather than a proper World Title. If the WWE marketed ECW as the bronze medal brand, how were people meant to take it?
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I believe ECW failed because it was made to be the third rung, and their title was often made to look like the equivalent to a mid-card belt, rather than a proper World Title. If the WWE marketed ECW as the bronze medal brand, how were people meant to take it?
This.
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