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Old 05-23-2012, 07:42 PM   #1
FourFifty
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kinda sad
The next generations of mainstream wrestling fans will not know about the following-

The piledriver
A single chair shot taking someone out
Drugged out interviews like Jake Roberts
Icons that became icons naturally
Seeing a simple leg drop win a title
A wrestler like Tazz who'll suplex anyone from anywhere
A streak like The Undertaker's
Mildly racist comments on the color commentary
The thrill of seeing someone jump ship
Being shocked as they didn't read the dirt sheets.

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Originally Posted by PapaGeorgio View Post
This is really a two part questions, I AM ON TO YOU. One, there is no god, but rather gods. As for the second part assuming there is a loving god out there as stated in your first part. Children get cancer out of love. Cancer is a creation of god, and he loves cancer. Children are a creation of god, and he loves children. Thus children with cancer are people he really love.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:46 PM   #2
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Thank god for tapes/dvd's.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:30 PM   #3
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What do you mean "icons that became icons naturally"?
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:20 PM   #4
FourFifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BollywoodSingh View Post
What do you mean "icons that became icons naturally"?
Guys like Hogan, Sting, The Undertaker, Triple H, and Ric Flair became icons without people getting sick of them. Today's wrestling world has multiple shows per week from multiple promotions. Today's icons, like Cena, needs to be rammed down our throats.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #5
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Thumbs down
Pretty sure Raw threads were full of posters being as sick of HHH opening another Raw with a 30 minute diatribe as they were of Cena.

You have the most selective memory ever.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:47 AM   #6
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Pretty sure Raw threads were full of posters being as sick of HHH opening another Raw with a 30 minute diatribe as they were of Cena.
True, but I don't ever recall anyone complaining about Austin, Rock, HBK or Taker's big pushes or them opening Raw's or getting tons of tv time. Not saying that HHH isn't an icon, but I wouldn't necessarily put him at the exact same level of guy's like Austin, Rock, Taker or Hogan either. Not to mention, outside of maybe his run in 2004/05 (year?), I don't recall anyone being sick of HHH opening Raw.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:56 AM   #7
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Pretty sure most of America got sick of hogan in 1993

Fans today also will never have to deal with constant review shows....only seeing new.content once a month...plenty of other garbage.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:34 AM   #8
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I do agree with the jumping ship one.

Back then, with no internet or insider infomation on upcoming contracts or releases etc, seeing one guy on Raw, vanish for a week or two, and then appear on Nitro, or vice versa, was always exciting.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
I do agree with the jumping ship one.

Back then, with no internet or insider infomation on upcoming contracts or releases etc, seeing one guy on Raw, vanish for a week or two, and then appear on Nitro, or vice versa, was always exciting.
I guess that also works true with the "mystery" of new wrestlers. If somebody felt inclined, they could go online and completely learn everything about a debuting wrestler the next day.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:23 PM   #10
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wrestling is the drizzling shits these day with some rare gems thrown in. people will never know a truly excellent big show product because it's no long wrestling and instead it is skit comedy.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post
True, but I don't ever recall anyone complaining about Austin, Rock, HBK or Taker's big pushes or them opening Raw's or getting tons of tv time. Not saying that HHH isn't an icon, but I wouldn't necessarily put him at the exact same level of guy's like Austin, Rock, Taker or Hogan either. Not to mention, outside of maybe his run in 2004/05 (year?), I don't recall anyone being sick of HHH opening Raw.
Well you are recalling incorrectly. Austin got stale like old bread when he decided to become the WWF Commish and I pleaded "Please make him go away", though looking back on it the "What" transformation period is funny to see, at the time it was a horrible escape from great storylines with real heat.

When the Rock finally turned heel it worked because people were so sick and tired of hearing the same old shit from him week after week.

People have complained about Taker's lack of in ring ability his whole career, at least until he fought Edge at WM.

Were you even watching WWE when Triple H was the big dog? Good lord it was horrible, his Steph/McMahon regime opening Raw with horrbile promo's setting up the same match we saw last month. IT was a really bad time for wrestling.

People will always get sick of the over pushed baby face it has happened to literally all of them. Hogan around 92-96, HBK in 96 (people were cheering Sid at Survivor Series, why? Because his gimmick was that of a faggot), Austin, Rock, Cena (obviously), Batista...

Babyfaces are best served chasing the title until you find "Goldberg" or "Sammartino" who is just so awesome and unbeatable that it makes sense to have a sick ass long reign with the title.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #12
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Taker has only had a couple of years in his career where he was meh in the ring.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile X View Post
Well you are recalling incorrectly. Austin got stale like old bread when he decided to become the WWF Commish and I pleaded "Please make him go away", though looking back on it the "What" transformation period is funny to see, at the time it was a horrible escape from great storylines with real heat.

When the Rock finally turned heel it worked because people were so sick and tired of hearing the same old shit from him week after week.

People have complained about Taker's lack of in ring ability his whole career, at least until he fought Edge at WM.

Were you even watching WWE when Triple H was the big dog? Good lord it was horrible, his Steph/McMahon regime opening Raw with horrbile promo's setting up the same match we saw last month. IT was a really bad time for wrestling.

People will always get sick of the over pushed baby face it has happened to literally all of them. Hogan around 92-96, HBK in 96 (people were cheering Sid at Survivor Series, why? Because his gimmick was that of a faggot), Austin, Rock, Cena (obviously), Batista...

Babyfaces are best served chasing the title until you find "Goldberg" or "Sammartino" who is just so awesome and unbeatable that it makes sense to have a sick ass long reign with the title.
I believe the original poster was referring mostly to the Attitude era, when guys like Rock, Austin and HHH were being built up to their best. Not post 2001-02, which I agree is when the writing, WCW invasion, etc., and everything started to go downhill.

I agree that babyfaces are best served chasing the title, especially when you have a great top heel for them to feud with. I guess when HHH was probably at his best as a heel getting tons of heat, you know, in 2000 during the HHH/Steph angle. Foley and Rock were the babyfaces chasing the title from HHH the first half of the year and WWE was doing some of their best ratings, etc.

That was really horrible. I must've missed the masses complaining about it originally though. Give me a break. Regardless of the writing then or now, I don't think we have anyone on the roster that's currently as over as Rock, Austin or HHH were back then, as heels or faces. All you're doing is complaining about similar things after the fact, like the structure of the show, or things you find boring or repetitive now that were even true back then, but people still ate them up and enjoyed them at the time.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:55 PM   #14
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They won't get to see any 'huge stars' either

I mean who was the last massive name in wrestling

You could say Cena but despite being pushed way more than any other face in history you can still find a ton of ppl who dont know who he is.....EVERYONE knows who The Rock and Hogan are....

Hardly anyone oozes charisma anymore tbh
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #15
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Taker was having amazing matches with Angle and others long before his WM match with Edge.

His WM matches have typically been shit for 1-15 or so due to them making it more of a spectacle against big hosses.

But pretty much post 1996 he has been able to have good matches when in the ring with someone that wasnt more limited than he is.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MoFo View Post
They won't get to see any 'huge stars' either

I mean who was the last massive name in wrestling

You could say Cena but despite being pushed way more than any other face in history you can still find a ton of ppl who dont know who he is.....EVERYONE knows who The Rock and Hogan are....

Hardly anyone oozes charisma anymore tbh
But John Cena is becoming more popular. It is harder for Cena to become a name like Hogan/Rock/Austin based on the fact WRESTLING isn't as popular as it once was.

And to say John Cena is being pushed more than any of face in history is just plan dumb. Cena is in mostly side attractions and even if they are in the main event they are not for the belt. In his last 2 feuds fo the belt, he put Del Rio over twice (He won the first match lost the second 2) and put over CM Punk twice.

For the past 6 ppvs, John Cena has not been in a title match. Just because the WWE thinks putting John Cena vs Brock/Rock/Laurinaitis on the main event is the best thing for business does not mean he is essentially being "pushed". He is no where near having Hogan jammed down our throats (Well not mine) in title matches. Honestly, John Cena is their biggest superstar and they had The Rock comeback and want to face John Cena. Brock Lesnar I am sure wanted to have a big match against John Cena. These guys did not comeback and say "Vince, I want to wrestle against whoever you want me to go against."

On a side note, during the first round of the NBA playoffs on TNT, Kenny, Charles, and Shaq going on about how Cena is a badass for 5 minutes.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #17
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:37 PM   #18
Jordan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Taker was having amazing matches with Angle and others long before his WM match with Edge.

His WM matches have typically been shit for 1-15 or so due to them making it more of a spectacle against big hosses.

But pretty much post 1996 he has been able to have good matches when in the ring with someone that wasnt more limited than he is.
Sure he was, your right. He faced Angle, and Lesnar in some great matches and before that he was always putting on awesome brawls with Mick Foley. But he also was being booked as the slayer of giants event still, and had to work drudging matches with Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Khali, and Nathan Jones.

Obviously now that he doesn't work more than once or twice a year he doesn't have shitty matches because the opponents are perfectly picked.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:38 PM   #19
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I was just saying I see that WM match with Edge as something that changed the Undertaker into a totally different Legend. One that you could count on a MOTYC at WM from.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:15 PM   #20
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Wrestlers jumping ship.

I try not to be nostalgic... but damn I don't know if it's ever gonna be that fun again.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:15 PM   #21
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I blame TNA not trying.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #22
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I'm pretty excited if Alex Shelly jumps, dunno why just am.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:09 PM   #23
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Drugged out interviews like THIS ONE....Shit even the Thumbnail makes me laugh
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:10 PM   #24
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I love the way the Other members are slapping Warrior trying to get him to get his shit together. I love Von Erich's face the whole time, and I Love Gene's worried glances!
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post
True, but I don't ever recall anyone complaining about Austin, Rock, HBK or Taker's big pushes or them opening Raw's or getting tons of tv time. Not saying that HHH isn't an icon, but I wouldn't necessarily put him at the exact same level of guy's like Austin, Rock, Taker or Hogan either. Not to mention, outside of maybe his run in 2004/05 (year?), I don't recall anyone being sick of HHH opening Raw.
Plenty of people were sick of HBK's 1996 title run as a face.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:48 PM   #26
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I'm pretty excited if Alex Shelly jumps, dunno why just am.
You have no idea how excited I am by that prospect. If Sabin goes as well. OH FUCK.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:36 AM   #27
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[quote=Fragile X;3868113] Were you even watching WWE when Triple H was the big dog? Good lord it was horrible, his Steph/McMahon regime opening Raw with horrbile promo's setting up the same match we saw last month. IT was a really bad time for wrestling.[quote]

Yeah, I was getting sick of seeing it too, and truthfully, the only real reason I was keeping in touch with it was to see Austin or Undertaker come back from their injuries. We could've turned to WCW if WCW didn't suck ass as bad as it did, but I think WCW's sucktitude was also the reason WWE was so successful. It was an alternative that people would turn to, but eventually, would turn back to WWF again.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:54 AM   #28
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We were all getting sick of Triple H. That's why it was so good. When I look back on it, I miss it. I was heavily invested in any face coming along and taking him down. It always seemed like he was hogging the spotlight, being booked too strongly, etc. In retrospect, it got him over as the most massive heel I've ever seen in wrestling, and he used that to do some really big jobs out in the open to get a lot of guys over, and some guys even more over. When you're such a heel that you could make anyone to pin you in a match the most celebrated guy on the internet, you're just the best heel in the business. It also gave him a lot of legs. Long shelf life.

John Cena is a different beast to me. I just can't believe he's the best thing wrestling has to offer right now. But to make the comparison to Triple H, whether or not Cena is a heel, when my favorite wrestler came back and was going one on one with a guy I can't stand, I was big time invested. If Rock had come back to wrestle Mark Henry in a nation of domination unfinished beef match, I'd still have watched, but I wouldn't have cared too much about the outcome.

Some of this is supposed to suck, because the easiest way to please fans is to have someone come along and "put an end" to it. It's age old, and it still works on smarks. Will for a long time.

Cornette explains a lot about how he feels pulling things back and making them dull/boring/repetitive can actually be a good thing from time to time, and I agree with that sort of mentality. Unfortunately, it still sucks while it's happening. I'll just kinda chill and wait for the monster to come along (the next "Austin," if you will) and flip it all upside down again.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:02 AM   #29
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This thread is full of worthless sacks of shit except for Rock Bottom.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Wrestlers jumping ship.

I try not to be nostalgic... but damn I don't know if it's ever gonna be that fun again.
That was always a good time... especially back in the day, when someone would be written off TV as injured then show up in another company ::coughRicFlaircough:: and then, when his WWF run was over, he came back to WCW "fresh off his injury", as if none of that ever happened. Classic.

As time went on and wrestling got more mainstream, quite a few people moved up the card from their subsequent "jumps". For example: say what you will about Double J, but his was a career that benefited from going between Titan and Turner. I was one of those of the mind that D'Lo would have potentially been huge had he gone to WCW, then eventually returned to WWE. Don't need to mention how Jericho's career took flight. The Radicalz... I feel iffy about including them, they were just disgruntled employees who basically walked out, however, they, for the most part, jumped from ECW, to WCW, to WWE and got bigger each time, so okay I guess they count. The closest things to that in recent history is Christian*, but he seemed to be punished for leaving for awhile after his return instead of capatalising on his momentum... which is partly how jumping ship helped.

Now with no-compete clauses and name/gimmick changes, it kind of lost the luster it once had.

The Alex Shelly thing could be huge... but most likely, he'll take a trip through the WWE Name Change machine and "Enrico van Gustavvson" will be treated as a day-one jobber instead of letting the rub from people going "Holy shit, it's Alex Shelly!" and have him come in and take the IC/US title... or at least make some noise in the midcard right away instead of toiling in FCW on NXT for 6-12 months.

The flip side is that anyone who slides over to TNA seems to get a guaranteed title shot. Hardly "building" anyone as opposed to "hey, remember this guy? He's with us now and instantly World Champion material". If JoMo made that move, it's a safe bet he'd be the guy to come in and knock off Bobby Roode and be "the biggest aquisition in TNA history!!!!1!!" until the next one.

*I'm not counting Jeff Hardy. He's a special case, no pun intended. In spite of everything, he's just perpetually over and a merch mover and if he ever came back to WWE in the near future, he would absolutely be in the spotlight. His career doesn't benefit from jumping as much as whatever company he works for does.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:23 AM   #31
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Alex Shelly won't get a "Holy shit, it's Alex Shelly!" reaction because jumping from TNA to WWE doesn't mean jack shit. Jumping from WWE to TNA does, and TNA has been unable to take advantage of those jumps.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:25 AM   #32
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honestly wouldn't be surprised if Shelley wound up in developmental for a little while if he ever signed with Vinceland. A name change wouldn't surprise me either
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:40 AM   #33
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I hope they teach him how to sell realistically.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:48 AM   #34
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honestly wouldn't be surprised if Shelley wound up in developmental for a little while if he ever signed with Vinceland. A name change wouldn't surprise me either
It would surprise me if both of these things DIDN'T happen...
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:51 AM   #35
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Christian only mattered when he jumped ship because he was a former WWE guy. He could have not gone to TNA that whole time and it wouldn't have changed anything. TNA is that insignificant in the big picture. AJ Styles is considered Mr. TNA and if he came to WWE, he'd go to developmental, probably change his name and come in fresh with no built up fanfare.

It's night and day compared to WCW/WWF jumping ship.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:00 AM   #36
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:40 AM   #37
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The next generation will have a lot of positives too - hopefully we won't see as many dead wrestlers due to the health and wellness steps taken now.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:03 AM   #38
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As I approach the age where I been watching wrestling for 30 years. It's just not the same anymore.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:18 AM   #39
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yah hate it when things change after 30 years
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Bottom View Post
We were all getting sick of Triple H. That's why it was so good. When I look back on it, I miss it. I was heavily invested in any face coming along and taking him down. It always seemed like he was hogging the spotlight, being booked too strongly, etc. In retrospect, it got him over as the most massive heel I've ever seen in wrestling, and he used that to do some really big jobs out in the open to get a lot of guys over, and some guys even more over. When you're such a heel that you could make anyone to pin you in a match the most celebrated guy on the internet, you're just the best heel in the business. It also gave him a lot of legs. Long shelf life.

I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there. James Steele, you should probably skip the rest of this post.

Exactly WHO did Triple H build up while he was hogging the spotlight on RAW during 2002-2005? Please tell me. Because there isn't a single one. Let me give you a list of guys who got jobbed the fuck out to Triple H:

- Rob Van Dam
- Kane
- Booker T
- Randy Orton
- Chris Jericho
- Chris Benoit
- Edge
- The entire Spirit Squad
- Eugene


Every last one of those guys (except perhaps Eugene) had the potential to be a huge star during the time they crossed Triple H. Rob Van Dam and Booker T are two very specific instances, where both times, if Triple H had done the right thing and put them over clean, they would've become true main event superstars for life. But that did not happen. Yes, they both won World Titles later on, but far too late to catch the train of momentum that they had at the time they faced the Game.

Remember Triple H's racist promos against WrestleMania World Title challenger Booker T before WM XIX? Remember how Booker was looking like the massive underdog going into Mania, which was building up for his first World Heavyweight Championship victory in the company? And what happened at Mania? Triple H hit the Pedigree on Booker T and took about 30 seconds before covering him for the win. And Booker would not reascend to the World Title for many, many years.

Remember when RAW had a main event of Triple H (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Edge for the World Title, which ended with Benoit and Edge submitting Triple H at the same time (Crossface/Sharpshooter, I believe)? The title got held up and rumors started to pop up about maybe Edge and Benoit will wrestle for the World Title at New Year's Revolution - maybe they're going to elevate Edge or re-elevate Benoit? Remember who won the Elimination Chamber match for that vacant World Title? Triple H.

Who got the spotlight after WrestleMania 20? Was it the World Heavyweight Champion in Chris Benoit? Hell no. It was Triple H, who "put over" Shelton Benjamin and feuded with fucking Eugene of all people. And yes, Eugene vs Triple H got higher billing on RAW than anything Benoit was doing (which, I believe, was feuding against La Resistance with Edge. As World Champion. You figure it out.) And then Triple H and HBK main evented Bad Blood over Benoit vs Kane, and then Benoit lost the World Title shortly thereafter to Randy Orton.

And what happened to Randy Orton in 2004? Do I really have to explain it?

Ken Doane of the Spirit Squad had so much potential. All they had to do was build him as a threat (kind of like they did with Barrett and Nexus). But did they? No. The SS jobbed to Triple H and HBK like absolute bitches and got sent back to OVW in a crate on RAW. Yeah. THAT'S how you put over future talent. Where are all those guys now, anyway? They were all extremely talented. Now all we have left of them is Dolph Ziggler, who has gotten over on his own accord.

And let's also not forget his horrendous encounters with Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash during this time.


Yeah. Triple H putting people over during his mega heel run? The only people he REALLY put over were Ric Flair, Batista and himself.
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