MLB 2010-2011 Off Season Thread

[Vox Populi]

Or Mike Cameron, for that matter.

It IS kinda weird to see Keith Olbermann at an Orioles batting practice, just taking pics of Vladimir Guerrero...

...it's an odd pairing, to say the least...

It's really only odd if you completely overlook his 5 years on Sportscenter and his 4 years at Fox Sports Net.

[Emperor Smeat]

Its not soo much about the Red Sox deciding to trade away a bunch of players but if some team gave an offer for any of those players, the Red Sox would show some consideration. They do this every Spring Training but most of the time its just the extra minor league players they put on a list or consider moving.

I agree with Vox Populi that almost all those names have no real value besides maybe a low level prospect and would cost the Red Sox more money to get rid of then to trade (ex. eating up most of Dice-K's contract in any deal).

The main goal for the Red Sox is to still get another veteran catcher due to the void Martinez left and their previous catcher they groomed to be their future falling out of favor with the team (left for Yankees for a year and returned but lost his status).

[Aguakate]

Or Mike Cameron, for that matter.



It's really only odd if you completely overlook his 5 years on Sportscenter and his 4 years at Fox Sports Net.

But, why VLADIMIR GUERRERO?

I don't mean him in a sports atmosphere, I remember him sporting the 'stache and doing Sportscenter with Dan Patrick...

...It's just weird to see him near Vladi...that's it.

[Vox Populi]

Well, he's got plenty of spare time on his hands these days...he could very well just be banging around from camp to camp or whatever, I suppose.

The main goal for the Red Sox is to still get another veteran catcher due to the void Martinez left and their previous catcher they groomed to be their future falling out of favor with the team (left for Yankees for a year and returned but lost his status).

I think you're giving the organization a bit of extra credit here. They've done a pretty piss-poor job of grooming anything resembling a legitimate successor to Varitek, as internally, they'd genuinely thought that Joe Mauer was going to get on the first plane possible out of Minneapolis and knock on the gate at Fenway. Stupid assumption to begin with that looks even dumber when you get a close look at the "top catching prospects" over the past few years. As good of a job as they've done drafting and developing at other positions, they pretty much punted on catchers for several years there.

[Aguakate]

I still don't understand why the Red Sox traded for Victor Martinez, and then let him go, basically...

[Damian Rey]

I think you're giving the organization a bit of extra credit here. They've done a pretty piss-poor job of grooming anything resembling a legitimate successor to Varitek, as internally, they'd genuinely thought that Joe Mauer was going to get on the first plane possible out of Minneapolis and knock on the gate at Fenway. Stupid assumption to begin with that looks even dumber when you get a close look at the "top catching prospects" over the past few years. As good of a job as they've done drafting and developing at other positions, they pretty much punted on catchers for several years there.

I do agree with this, somewhat. But don't too ahead of yourself. The Yankees only recently acquired Montero, and he's not really a catching prospect. Not to mention, as long as a catcher can call a good game, they're doing their job. Catcher is the last position people are going to look for offense from, honestly. Not a lot of good hitting catchers are avaiable.


I still don't understand why the Red Sox traded for Victor Martinez, and then let him go, basically...

They needed him for a playoff push and stablize the position for the duration of his contract. I'm sure they would have loved to have kept him. But in losing him and Beltre, they upgraded with Crawford and Gonzalez. I think they felt they had to make a choice as to who they felt was more important to the team, and, personally, I'd Gonzo and Crawford over Beltre and Martinez any day of the week.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

I do agree with this, somewhat. But don't too ahead of yourself. The Yankees only recently acquired Montero, and he's not really a catching prospect. Not to mention, as long as a catcher can call a good game, they're doing their job. Catcher is the last position people are going to look for offense from, honestly. Not a lot of good hitting catchers are avaiable.




They needed him for a playoff push and stablize the position for the duration of his contract. I'm sure they would have loved to have kept him. But in losing him and Beltre, they upgraded with Crawford and Gonzalez. I think they felt they had to make a choice as to who they felt was more important to the team, and, personally, I'd Gonzo and Crawford over Beltre and Martinez any day of the week.

I agree! Crawford and A-gon are way better then them. One of the few advantages of having V-Mart on your team is that he could be back up catcher and Adrian really can't . As far as I know Gonzales has never been a catcher. So do the Red Sox trade for another catcher or just go with what they have? I really don't know how good this Exposito guy is , but I believe Varitek is just about done. He may have 2 years left in him but I say in 2012 or 2013 He is retired. So what I would do is trade for a back up or starting catcher mid season. Cause down the road I think you'll need him.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Andrew Bailey is going to visit Dr. James Andrews

Ruh roh.</font>

[Vox Populi]

Catcher is the last position people are going to look for offense from, honestly.

Pretty sure shortstop is still winning that battle.

personally, I'd Gonzo and Crawford over Beltre and Martinez any day of the week.

Gonzo, Crawford and 4 draft picks.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Braves coach who got hit with a line drive by Brian McCann is getting his eye removed.

McCann's gonna have a terrible year.</font>

[Aguakate]

<font color=goldenrod>The Braves coach who got hit with a line drive by Brian McCann is getting his eye removed.

McCann's gonna have a terrible year.</font>

That's something that could potentially hurt his career long-term, in terms of his mental state. Hopefully he'll be alright.

[Damian Rey]

Pretty sure shortstop is still winning that battle.

I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I'd venture to say there are more above average, well rounded shortstops who play at least good defense and are good hitters than there are catchers who profile similarly.

Catcher's been a black hole as a position for ages.

[screech]

But, why VLADIMIR GUERRERO?



Because he's the fucking man, that's why.

[YOUR Hero]

That's something that could potentially hurt his career long-term, in terms of his mental state. Hopefully he'll be alright.
Yeah, hurt the player...

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Luis Castillo has been released :love: Yessssssssss!

Oliver Perez can't be too far behind. They have him slated to pitch in back-to-back games this weekend so if he bombs he'll surely be gone within a week.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Haha Big Vito. I read that this morning and you were the first person I thought off. Wonder if he will find a home. Also, when the Mets Rule 5'd that Emaus kid, the writing was on the wall.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Some team will def take a flyer on him since they'd only have to pay league minimum.

Looking back, despite the fact that he got the most starts at the position during spring, I'm not entirely sure that Castillo ever had a real chance. Alderson has said over and over that he views 2B as an offensive position - hence why he really likes Emaus. Emaus is having the shittiest spring by far out of the four guys left but since Toronto will def take him back, he'll get the first chance in what will prolly be a platoon situation with Murphy.

If Reese Havens can actually stay healthy, I wouldn't be shocked to see him get hotshotted to the bigs by August if Emaus/Murphy or a Justin Turner/Luis Hernandez call-up underperform.</font>

[Gertner]

My Jays will definitely take Emaus back. I was surprised that they left him unprotected when they keep useless fucks like Mike McCoy on the 40 man roster.

[Gertner]

Fuck I can't wait to see this Jays team in a couple years. Soooo much young talent. I never understood why AA got heat for dealing Marcum who's shoulder is acting up for Brett Lawrie considering they have a ton of young pitching. Lawrie has been amazing in spring training. I don't think he's going to make the team this year since Farrell is dead set on moving Bautista back to third which make no sense because it's going to make the Jays outfield horrible with Snider and Rivera on the corners and Rajah Davis who has no arm at all.

[Aguakate]

Man, it's awesome to spend a Saturday afternoon watching some spring training baseball...

...the skies look so clear...the grass so green...the home uniforms are SO white...

...it's awesome.

[Evil Vito]

My Jays will definitely take Emaus back. I was surprised that they left him unprotected when they keep useless fucks like Mike McCoy on the 40 man roster.

<font color=goldenrod>You're probably in luck. It's really rare for Rule 5 guys to stick around the whole year. Usually if they underperform they only stick around if they're a team like the Pirates where it doesn't matter. I'd guess they decide whether or not to keep Emaus by Memorial Day.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>That was pretty surreal. Oliver Perez comes in with 2 men on on and gives up a long home run. Then another. Then he gets one out before walking a lefty. In a half-full spring training game, the ovation Terry Collins got when he came in to pull the hook was enormous. The boos as Perez jogged off the field were even louder.

As Perez left, the announcer questioned "was that his last pitch as a New York Met?"

My guess would be yes.</font> :love:

[Damian Rey]

<font color=goldenrod>You're probably in luck. It's really rare for Rule 5 guys to stick around the whole year. Usually if they underperform they only stick around if they're a team like the Pirates where it doesn't matter. I'd guess they decide whether or not to keep Emaus by Memorial Day.</font>

No offense, Vito, but I think this is a lost year for the Mets. Alderson just got in, so it's going to take some time to get the team back on the right track. Not to say that they can't, at the least, stay competitive and play .500 ball, but I don't see them competing with the Phillies, Braves, or Marlins for that matter.

With that said, I think they're going to give Emaus every chance to stick. His career OBP in the minors is 90 points (or close to it) higher than his career batting average at the same level. He also has averaged 25 doubles per year.

Outside of unspectacular power numbers, Emaus is the type of top of the order hitter Alderson looks for. Gets on base, can punch doubles, and could be a nice fill in at the 2 hole in the order. I think he will stick.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I think the Mets are gonna do whatever they can to stay competitive for as long as possible this year, because as soon as they totally fall out of it Citi Field is gonna be a ghost town.

But yeah, right around .500 is what I'm expecting. Working on my predictions right now and so far I have them finishing Phillies (impossible not to pick them unless you're trying to look like Nostradamus), Braves, Mets, Marlins (just really don't see the big deal with them), and Nats (who might finally get out of the cellar with a full season of Strasburg next year).</font>

[Aguakate]

The Mets won't go above .500 this season. It's incredible how things went so bad so fast. Just 5 years ago, they were World Series contenders, and now, not only are not a playoff team, the whole organization seems to be a big mess.

At least they have Sandy Alderson, so they can be sure that the baseball side of things will be in good hands.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Rick Peterson was interviewed by Francesa the other week and I found it incredibly interesting to hear his take on the 2007 collapse that sent the Mets into a tailspin they haven't recovered from. Basically he shat on Omar cause the Mets had no depth and had luminaries like Brian Lawrence making important starts down the stretch. Phil Humber had to make his big league debut in mid-collapse. Jorge Sosa, Scott Schoeneweis, and Aaron Heilman were sucking but needed to go out there every night since there was no other choice. It was ridiculous.

And it's a problem that wasn't quite so evident in 2006. Many of the replacement starting pitchers who had been called up that year sucked but were bailed out by the ricockulous offense and bullpen the Mets had. But once injuries set in in '07 and beyond, the lack of depth was exposed. Probably Omar's biggest downfall as GM.

Fortunately, depth seems like Alderson's strong point and unlike in years past I'm actually comfortable with the amount of depth in AAA once the need to call guys up arises. Think the Mets can at least stay in contention until late August/early September.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Big deal with the Marlins is Hanley Ramirez is still growing as a player and is going to be entering his prime, so his numbers are going to be what carries the team. You also have Josh Johnson, a legit CY candidate, who's also still growing. Their pitching staff looks solid, Mike Stanton could very breakout as this year's big time power hitter, and they have Logan Morrison and Chris Coghlan hitting ahead of Ramirez and Stanton. The top and middle of their lineup is young and has tons of upside.

I think Alderson will right the ship over the next few years. He did the same for the Padres during his time here. Fans hated him, as he wasn't the best PR guy, and he was routinely baited on the radio and would get riled up by the radio hosts after they would ask sarcastic questions and what not, but the guy drafted pretty much every farm product that was on the team last and contributed to 90 wins was an Alderson draft; Latos, Headley, Blanks (even though he got hurt early), Hundley, Frieri.

I have faith Alderson will help get the Mets going. I think the only guy who figures into their future right now is David Wright. I think Alderson is going to let Reyes and Beltran go when the time comes, and collect the draft picks that the Mets will be compensated.

Onto other topics, Opening Day in San Diego is next week, and, despite my seats' view being equivalent to that of a Goodyear blimp view, I'm super excited to attend an Opening Day for the first time since that heralded 1998 season.

[ClockShot]

Mets cut Oliver Perez loose.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

and the Phillies signed Castillo LOL. Great day.</font>

[Aguakate]

With the Mets' luck, Castillo will play great with the Phillies.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

With the Mets' luck, Castillo will play great with the Phillies.

That is if he gets a call up. If I am not mistaken it was just a minor league deal.

[Aguakate]

That is if he gets a call up. If I am not mistaken it was just a minor league deal.

Yeah, it is, but with Chase Utley still being injured, and the second base situation still not 100% defined, he's got a shot.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Yeah, it is, but with Chase Utley still being injured, and the second base situation still not 100% defined, he's got a shot.

Oh, right I keep forgetting that Utley is still injured. I have got a question. Who do you think will get the fifth spot? Because that was Werth's spot and I think I may have read they still haven't found the guy who could bat fifth in place of Werth.

That does seem like a hard thing to do. Jayson Werth had quite a bit of power I could only imagine that with his ability to hit as well as well as he could can't be easily replaced.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I can't see Castillo lasting long if he makes the team. As soon as Utley is healthy they'll probably cut Castillo loose because he's a useless bench player. If he had any range or could play more than one position maybe but as he is now he's a terrible bench option.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Yea, Castillo is there soley to fill in for Utley while he's hurt. I can see him being kept for the duration of the season also, since no one knows how healthy utley is going to be and having Castillo on the bench as an option would be a wise move.

Perez will probably get picked up by some team needing relief/starting pitching help. The Diamondbacks seem like a likey fit, seeing as Perez came up under the Kevin Towers era, and KT is quick to jump on bargain bin arms who are looking to bounce back.

The Pirates also seem like they'd bite.

[Gertner]

Looks like Drabek and Litsch (who I HATE) have locked down to last two spots in the Jays rotation. Was really hoping Scrabble would have grabbed the 4th spot from Litsch but he blew in the pre-season. Ah well. Litsch will suck ass in no time.

[Gertner]

Yea, Castillo is there soley to fill in for Utley while he's hurt. I can see him being kept for the duration of the season also, since no one knows how healthy utley is going to be and having Castillo on the bench as an option would be a wise move.

Perez will probably get picked up by some team needing relief/starting pitching help. The Diamondbacks seem like a likey fit, seeing as Perez came up under the Kevin Towers era, and KT is quick to jump on bargain bin arms who are looking to bounce back.

The Pirates also seem like they'd bite.

Don't rule out the Jays. Toronto always seems to have some shitty left handed innings eater on their roster ala Brian Tallet or Dana Eveland. Especially since Litsch sucks and I expect Drabek to be on a pitch limit. Zach Stewart and Henderson Alvarez aren't ready yet.

[Damian Rey]

Yea, but Perez is not even good or consistent enough to be a shitty innings eater. If you can get 5 or 6 out of him, it's a miracle. I don't think the AA would bite on Perez.

[Gertner]

Brian Tallet was 2-6 with a 6.40 era in 34 games pitching 77.1 innings last year lol. Greatest stat: 20 home runs given up in those 77.1 innings. Cito kept throwing hm out there. Became a running joke because Cito stated he was an "innings eater.

[Damian Rey]

Cito Gaston's proven time and time again he's an idiot. Last year, instead of giving Arencibia time when he got called up to get his development going, he chose to start John Buck, a departing catcher who had zero future with the org, just so Buck had a chance to hit a menaingless number in homeruns (20).

Tallet might be better suited as a lefty specialist, though I don't know what his splits are so I'm just speculating.

[Gertner]

He kept playing Buck to keep him as a Class B free agent so the Jays could get a comp pick for him. Tallet was much better against lefties than righties.

[Damian Rey]

He kept playing Buck to keep him as a Class B free agent so the Jays could get a comp pick for him. Tallet was much better against lefties than righties.

If the numbers proved that Tallet was effective as a specialist, it's Gaston's fault for running him out there against everyone. That's what stats are for. It's not Tallet nor AA's fault for Tallet's overall stat line. Gaston's the one putting him out there, and Tallet is just doing what he's told.

And Buck was going to be a class B free agent regardless of games played. It's based on the previous two years, and by mid August, and ALL of September, there was zero reason as to justify not playing Arencibia.

I read an article or chat somewhere that quoted Gaston wanting to give Buck a chance to hit an arbitrary, and meaningless, number of homeruns, just for the sake of it.

Either way, if Tallet is up to task, they can use him as a specialist rather than throwing Perez out there.

[Gertner]

Tallet signed with St. Louis. Plus,. the Jays already had Downs as a lefty specialist. I HATED Tallet with a passion. It pretty much means the Jays gave up on a game when he entered.

[Aguakate]

The composition of the jurors, identified publicly only by number, judging Barry Bonds in his trial on perjury and obstruction charges:

• Juror 56: Woman, 57, nurse.
• Juror 42: Woman, 19, college student.
• Juror 36: Woman, 25, aid-giver to developmentally disabled.
• Juror 6: Woman, 30, autism support specialist.
• Juror 97: Woman, 27, phlebotomist.
• Juror 69: Man, 68, temporary shipping clerk.
• Juror 66: Man, 60, data center engineer.
• Juror 3: Woman, 51, client service administrator.
• Juror 19. Woman, 26, food server.
• Juror 90: Man, 57, IT manager.
• Juror 73: Woman, 28, nurse.
• Juror 21: Man, 68, retired cashier.

-- Associated Press

I don't think this is good for Barry. Of the 12 jurors, 8 are women, and it'll probably be easier for them to buy the whole "Barry Bonds wanted to hit more home runs, so he took these magical substances called Steroids, which make you instantly get more muscular, and hit more home runs" deal.

[Damian Rey]

The composition of the jurors, identified publicly only by number, judging Barry Bonds in his trial on perjury and obstruction charges:

• Juror 56: Woman, 57, nurse.
• Juror 42: Woman, 19, college student.
• Juror 36: Woman, 25, aid-giver to developmentally disabled.
• Juror 6: Woman, 30, autism support specialist.
• Juror 97: Woman, 27, phlebotomist.
• Juror 69: Man, 68, temporary shipping clerk.
• Juror 66: Man, 60, data center engineer.
• Juror 3: Woman, 51, client service administrator.
• Juror 19. Woman, 26, food server.
• Juror 90: Man, 57, IT manager.
• Juror 73: Woman, 28, nurse.
• Juror 21: Man, 68, retired cashier.

-- Associated Press

I don't think this is good for Barry. Of the 12 jurors, 8 are women, and it'll probably be easier for them to buy the whole "Barry Bonds wanted to hit more home runs, so he took these magical substances called Steroids, which make you instantly get more muscular, and hit more home runs" deal.

It wouldn't make a difference. Bonds has been absolutely hammered in the media. if they read the Sports Illustrated article discussing his insecurities in not being recognized, his racism, and his affair where he bought the chick a house, on top of pissing all over Hank Aaron, who is heralded, they'd have a certain view of him regardless.

I think Bonds is done for.

[DaveWadding]

pics of all the women 30 and under?

[Emperor Smeat]

Some MLB news:

Mark Cuban drops out of the Mets ownership bidding after loosing intrest in becoming a part owner and being prevented repeatedly of owning a majority stake in the team. Donald Trump still in the bidding but will drop if he isn't allowed the chance to bid for a majority stake in the team.

Cuban's quote:"I've been through this before, but call me crazy: When I write an $800 million check, I want somebody to kiss my ass. I don't want to have to beg and grovel to write that check."

Yankees decide that Jeter will share his lead-off spot regardless if Jeter likes it or not with Girardi swapping the lead-off hitter based on the throwing arm of the pitcher.

Giants believe their closer Wilson will be available for Opening Day. His injury got downgraded to mild side strain.

White Sox confident Jake Peavy will return soon after rehab from his current injury but do expect him to miss the first 3-4 starts of the season.

Red Sox believe an extension for Adrian Gonzalez will occur no later than April. The Red Sox didn't want to get hit by the Luxury Cap tax so any deal done will have to occur after Opening Day week and wanted to see him play a bit after recovering from surgery late last year.

[Damian Rey]

Some MLB news:

Mark Cuban drops out of the Mets ownership bidding after loosing intrest in becoming a part owner and being prevented repeatedly of owning a majority stake in the team. Donald Trump still in the bidding but will drop if he isn't allowed the chance to bid for a majority stake in the team.

Cuban's quote:

Yankees decide that Jeter will share his lead-off spot regardless if Jeter likes it or not with Girardi swapping the lead-off hitter based on the throwing arm of the pitcher.

Giants believe their closer Wilson will be available for Opening Day. His injury got downgraded to mild side strain.

White Sox confident Jake Peavy will return soon after rehab from his current injury but do expect him to miss the first 3-4 starts of the season.

Red Sox believe an extension for Adrian Gonzalez will occur no later than April. The Red Sox didn't want to get hit by the Luxury Cap tax so any deal done will have to occur after Opening Day week and wanted to see him play a bit after recovering from surgery late last year.

I'm pretty sure the parameters and and agreeance on a long term deal were hammerd out months ago for AGon. They're just biding their time, right now.

And I pray for Jake Peavy's health. Love that guy.

[RP]

I think Tyler Colvin is going to have a very big year. I'm thinking, 30+ hr, 310 average 125 rbi, 20 steals

[Gertner]

It's better than my prediction of E5 hitting 40 home runs this year.

[Vox Populi]

It wouldn't make a difference. Bonds has been absolutely hammered in the media. if they read the Sports Illustrated article discussing his insecurities in not being recognized, his racism, and his affair where he bought the chick a house, on top of pissing all over Hank Aaron, who is heralded, they'd have a certain view of him regardless.

Of course, if they'd read that or any article, they wouldn't be eligible for the jury in the first place.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ollie Perez to the Nationals, minor league deal.</font>

[Damian Rey]

I think Tyler Colvin is going to have a very big year. I'm thinking, 30+ hr, 310 average 125 rbi, 20 steals

I think he has too many holes in his swing for 30 hr. He struck out over 100 times last year in over 400 at bats. 125 RBI is a ton.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets play the Marlins today, Monday, and Wednesday before meeting them in a real game next Friday.

Come on.</font>

[ClockShot]

Yankees trade Sergio Mitre to the Brewers for Chris Dickerson.

A. It was bound to happen.

B. I guess this injury to Granderson is worse than expected.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Dickerson is a good egg. Wish he could play consistently with talent.

[Gertner]

Emaus had a big game last night. Looks like he's staying with your Mets Vito.

[ClockShot]

Yankees sign Kevin Millwood to a minor league deal.

Hmmmm? Last minute entry to the 5th starter battle. Looks like Nova got the 4th spot all locked up.

[Sean]

The Yankees should be a fantastic laugh this season. Genuinely excited for it.

[Nervous Ferret]

Genuinely excited to h8 you Sean.

[Dragon]

Yankees trade Sergio Mitre to the Brewers for Chris Dickerson.

A. It was bound to happen.

B. I guess this injury to Granderson is worse than expected.

I think Mitre might have been let go of soon anyway. Mitre was the odd man out with Colon pitching well and Garcia probably getting a shot.

I'm hoping its Nova-Garcia in the rotation and then Colon as the long man out of the pen.

[Evil Vito]

Emaus had a big game last night. Looks like he's staying with your Mets Vito.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, he all but officially made the team once Justin Turner got optioned to minor league camp that morning. Emaus looked good. His homer was completely wind-aided, but it's good to see him finally start to swing the bat.

He'll probably get most of the starts. Murphy may start Opening Day against Johnson but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Hope Emaus shows something and can stick around all year.</font>

[ClockShot]

The New York Yankees 2011 Starting Rotation:

1. Carsten Charles "CC" Sabathia
2. Allen James "A.J." Burnett
3. Phil Hughes
4. Ivan Nova
5. Freddy Garcia

Bartolo Colon starts out in the bullpen, Mark Prior goes to SWB for the time being, everyone else, thanks for playing.

[Gertner]

Oh that's cute.

[Aguakate]

That can be a good rotation. I guess the "X" factor would have to be Burnett.

[ClockShot]

The Brewers will aquire just about anybody these days. They get Nyjer Morgan from the Nationals for Cutter Dykstra (yes, Lenny Dykstra's son) and cash.

[One Eight Sven]

Even with Cabrera going bananas I still feel pretty positive about the Tigers chances this year. I feel like they have a solid team with a lot of young talent. The only downside here is that the AL Central should be as tough as ever with the Twins and White Sox both fielding quality teams this season. I can't wait for the season to start.

[Gertner]

lol young talent? Aside from Jackson and Cabrera the Tigers positional players are old and shit. They will probably have the worst defence in the league.

[One Eight Sven]

Rick Porcello is 22
Max Scherzer is 26
Jacob Turner will be up soon and is only 19
Alex Avila is 24
Brennan Boesch is 25

Plenty of young talent

[Supreme Olajuwon]

How old is Verlander? Feel like he's about 33 at this point.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

28. Damn.

[OssMan]

Nats trade Nyjer Morgan NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Gertner]

Rick Porcello is 22
Max Scherzer is 26
Jacob Turner will be up soon and is only 19
Alex Avila is 24
Brennan Boesch is 25

Yeah no young talent at all. Do some research next time so you don't look foolish.

Boesch sucks ass (Chris Shelton 2.0), Avila can't hit above .220 to save his life. The Tigers have one of the worst farm systems in the league. They have 1 prospect exactly who I'd be excited about: Jacob Turner. I'm from your area tard and from the columnists that I read in Detroit and radio shows I'm not the only one who thinks that.

But nice try.

[Gertner]

Ugh, the Jays are starting the season with 5 players on the d/l and both our closer and set up men injured. I hope to God Morrow's arm is going to be ok.

Starting Rotation

1. Romero
2. Drabek
3. Cecil
4. Jo Jo Reyes lol
5. Jesse Litsch ugh

Morrow, McGowen on the d/l

Bullpen

Rauch
Scrabble
Purcey
Frasor
Camp
Villaneuava
Janssen

Dotel and Francisco on the d/l


1. Davis CF
2. Escobar SS
3. Bautista 3b
4. Lind 1b
5. Hill 2b
6. Encarnacion DH
7. Snider LF
8. Rivera RF
9. Arencibia C

Bench

Molina C
McCoy 2b
McDonald SS
Patterson Outfield

Podsednik d/l

[One Eight Sven]

I'm remaining positive about the Tigers chances this year. Really think they're gonna have success. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Gertner]

Well, they play in a weak division so they should rack up wins against Cleveland and KC. The Twins I think are going to take a step back and the Sox have question marks in their bullpen.

Just be thankful the Tigers don't play in the East like my Jays.

[Vox Populi]

That can be a good rotation. I guess the "X" factor would have to be Burnett.

If by "X" you mean "his laughable contract ought to be X'd out", I'd agree.

After the 2nd Sunday of May last year, Phil Hughes' ERA was a 5, his win total was hugely inflated by league leading run support, and he allowed the most home runs in the league. Burnett's most direct comparable at this point in his career is Pete Harnisch, yet he's getting paid ace money for reasons that no one can truly explain. Ivan Nova had nearly a 4 ERA and a 1.4 WHIP in his minor league career, and Freddy Garcia is now at least 5 seasons away from being anything more than a league average innings eater, plus he's become injury prone. This is, on its best day, the third best rotation in the AL East, and that's solely because of the guy heading it up.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Cubs released Carlos Silva for being a fat whiny bitch.

Yet Zambrano is still there

[RP]

Zambrano was the best pitcher in baseball from august on last year. Plus his contact is untradeable and unreleaseable.

[One Eight Sven]

Well, they play in a weak division so they should rack up wins against Cleveland and KC. The Twins I think are going to take a step back and the Sox have question marks in their bullpen.

Just be thankful the Tigers don't play in the East like my Jays.

Oh trust me I am very thankful. Toronto has had so much talent come and go since they last made the playoffs. People think the balance in the East is there just because the Rays made the postseason a couple times but that was only after they spent a decade stockpiling draft picks.

Oh well I think the Jays have a legit shot at the wild card this year with the Yanks and Rays both taking big steps back.

[Gertner]

lol my Jays will be lucky to not finish last this year.

[Droford]

Max Sherzer in 2.1 ip gave up 12 runs to the Os today. Good thing it didn't count but pitches Sunday vs the Yankees and misses the Os on their opening homestand lol damnit

Also, Jake Fox hit his 10th HR and I think they have to keep him on the roster somehow..

[Damian Rey]

Padres made a flurry of moves in recent days. They traded for INF Alberto Gonzalez, who will likely be backing up shortstop. That move lead to the optioning of Everth Cabrera to AAA.

Wade LeBlanc was optioned to AAA (YES), while Corey Luebke will break camp as the long reliever, though I suspect he will crack the starting 5 by the end of the year.

Rob Johnson was named the backup catcher, which got Guillermo Quiroz reassigned to minor league camp.

And, with Corey Patterson on the DL with a sore hamstring, former 3 round pick and Padre prospect outfielder Cedric Hunter gets the nod for the opening day roster. Honestly, I think this is a tryout for either the left or right field spots next year, as one of, if not both og Ludwick and Venable could be gone or no longer starting come 2012.

The bummer is Mat Latos got put on the DL with bursitis in his throwing shoulder. Thankfully, there's a shit ton of off days in April, so they don't need a 5th starter.

[Dragon]

Oh trust me I am very thankful. Toronto has had so much talent come and go since they last made the playoffs. People think the balance in the East is there just because the Rays made the postseason a couple times but that was only after they spent a decade stockpiling draft picks.

Oh well I think the Jays have a legit shot at the wild card this year with the Yanks and Rays both taking big steps back.

The Yankees really haven't taken a huge step back this year though. Boston took a big step forward but the Yankees really didn't get worse than last year. I've seen a lot of people talk about the Yankees rotation problems but I don't know if they remember how bad Burnett and Vazquez were last year.

They lost 130 good innings from Pettitte. Thats the only loss they have from last year. They also lose 150 atrocious innings from Vazquez. Garcia and Nova should be able to surpass or at the very least match what he did last year. I really can't imagine Burnett being as terrible as last year either. If he puts up a league average year he'd be vastly improved. This is all with an improved bench and bullpen.

I'm not trying to argue that the Yanks rotation doesn't have question marks, because it obviously does. Just saying that the Yankees problems and offseason "losses" are a little blown out of proportion.

[Damian Rey]

I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar.

Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets were bringing their entire Opening Day lineup to Viera today, complete with Beltran in right. Then before the game Bay gets scratched with a ribcage injury and he may start on the DL.

Unreal. The good news is that the DL trip could be backdated and he'd likely only have to miss a week or so, and Luca Duda's having a good spring as his likely replacement anyway. But it just feels like such a kick in the groin/typical Mets luck that as soon as the most injury prone guy on the team is announced as ready for Opening Day, somebody else goes down.</font>

[Gertner]

Jays acquire Jayson Nix from the Indians for cash. I'm guessing this was due to Corey Patterson joining Podsednik on the d/l and the Jays not wanting to bring up Thames or Mastronianni and having them sit on the bench.

Hmm, Nix hits .224, has a shitty OBP. Just what we needed.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

well that's at least even with Patterson's numbers

call it a draw

[Damian Rey]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets were bringing their entire Opening Day lineup to Viera today, complete with Beltran in right. Then before the game Bay gets scratched with a ribcage injury and he may start on the DL.

Unreal. The good news is that the DL trip could be backdated and he'd likely only have to miss a week or so, and Luca Duda's having a good spring as his likely replacement anyway. But it just feels like such a kick in the groin/typical Mets luck that as soon as the most injury prone guy on the team is announced as ready for Opening Day, somebody else goes down.</font>

Yeesh. The backdating thing is good news though. I'm wondering how Beltran will hold up. Honestly, RF in Citi Field is no walk in the park. That stadium is huge, and I have a feeling they're going to need to have some built in rest days for Beltran.

Honestly, I don't why they haven't discussed a possible move to 1st base, and wouldn't be surprised to see it go down that way if Beltran stays in the NL after this year. He has more than enough athleticism to play there, and it would prolong his career.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar.

Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline.

I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

[Vox Populi]

Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

[Damian Rey]

I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline.

I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

[Vox Populi]

There's been talk of a Liriano deal off and on throughout the offseason, but understandably the Twins are asking big for him.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

[Evil Vito]

Yeesh. The backdating thing is good news though. I'm wondering how Beltran will hold up. Honestly, RF in Citi Field is no walk in the park. That stadium is huge, and I have a feeling they're going to need to have some built in rest days for Beltran.

Honestly, I don't why they haven't discussed a possible move to 1st base, and wouldn't be surprised to see it go down that way if Beltran stays in the NL after this year. He has more than enough athleticism to play there, and it would prolong his career.

<font color=goldenrod>Collins already said Beltran will have built-in off days, he expects him to play 5 out of every 7 games or so - at least until he proves he can handle a full workload. Problem is with Bay gone, the Mets OF on days Beltran is off will be Duda-Pagan-Willie Harris or Scott Hairston. Harris and Hairston have had beast springs but...yeah, it's Spring Training.

It makes sense that they never discussed moving him to 1B though - because Sir Isaac Davis is there. I can't see Beltran as a 1B. If anything I'm sure a team will let him DH if need be. Beltran being healthy and productive in the first half is huge, ditto for Reyes because both are likely to be out the door if the Mets aren't in reasonable striking distance by July (which for Alderson might mean 1-2 games out since I think he's already made up his mind that he's trading them otherwise).

Admittedly, out of the top 6 guys in the order (Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis) if you told me I had to pick one to go without I'd likely say Bay anyway. Still I hope his (seemingly inevitable) DL trip is short.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Luis Castillo released for the 2nd time in a week and a half.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

There's been talk of a Liriano deal off and on throughout the offseason, but understandably the Twins are asking big for him.

I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal.

He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

[Damian Rey]

<font color=goldenrod>Collins already said Beltran will have built-in off days, he expects him to play 5 out of every 7 games or so - at least until he proves he can handle a full workload. Problem is with Bay gone, the Mets OF on days Beltran is off will be Duda-Pagan-Willie Harris or Scott Hairston. Harris and Hairston have had beast springs but...yeah, it's Spring Training.

It makes sense that they never discussed moving him to 1B though - because Sir Isaac Davis is there. I can't see Beltran as a 1B. If anything I'm sure a team will let him DH if need be. Beltran being healthy and productive in the first half is huge, ditto for Reyes because both are likely to be out the door if the Mets aren't in reasonable striking distance by July (which for Alderson might mean 1-2 games out since I think he's already made up his mind that he's trading them otherwise).

Admittedly, out of the top 6 guys in the order (Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis) if you told me I had to pick one to go without I'd likely say Bay anyway. Still I hope his (seemingly inevitable) DL trip is short.</font>

Speaking of Keith Law, I just read what he had ot say about Ike Davis, and I like what I've read. I agree that keeping him at 1st base is the right thing to do.

That's good that the organization is protecting Beltran as much as possible. I think Bay being on the DL hurts, but it's not looking long term so we will see. Scot Hairston's pretty useless. He's adequate defensively, but he's horrible against RHP, especially with breaking balls. He really is a fastball only hitter, and that's only if he knows it's coming, and even then....

Alderson probably got the job and made up his mind he didn't like the majority of what the roster has to offer. I think David Wright needs to be extended long term, as he has been nothing less than a rock for that team. Not having a healthy, dynamic Reyes is going to hurt, too. I think Sandy is going to go the college hitter route to try and get some of those drafted bats fast tracked, like he did in San Diego.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.



I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal.



I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013.

They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

[Damian Rey]

20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013.

They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not.

I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

[Vox Populi]

They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

And for 5/6ths of the season, that leaning resulted in extremely Burnettish numbers.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not.

I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

Yeah, I'm not expecting any "Sexy names" Most of them would be damn near impossible to get anyway (Hernandez, JJ, Cain, Lincecum, etc.etc.etc.)

All though I would prefer one of our minors pulling the job if one of them doesn't work out but they can't really be an "Innings eater" Someone has gotta stick though. With Garcia, Colon, Millwood, and even Prior. I hardly doubt that all 4 of them will fail at the same time. If they do then we go out and find someone. But we got 4 guys. One of them I think is gonna stick. I could be wrong I hope not. But, if I am we have got other choices like trading.

[Dragon]

I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

Most scouts and baseball people have said he could come up and be a decent pitcher right now in the majors. But he's still really young and only pitched 15 innings above A ball. He needs to get time in the minors to build up his innings count and stuff like that.

[Dragon]

Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

And this really goes back to my other point earlier. With a weak rotation the Yankees will still win a ton of games because of their offense. In June and July when he put up ERAs above 5 he went 6-3.

The Yankees rotation isn't flashy or anything but if the back-end guys (Nova and Garcia) put up average stats this rotation will be better than last years. Obviously assuming CC is CC. I mean Garcia alone last year pitched 18 quality starts, Vasquez had 10. Pitching that many decent games will get these guys wins on the Yankees.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think most of the panic is that this is the first time in forever that Boston is clearly better than the Yankees. Still think New York makes the playoffs.

[Vox Populi]

His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

Thank you for the correction. As such, it turns out that from JUNE 1st on, the most important months of the season, Hughes' ERA was actually over a 5, and that doesn't even factor in the fact that he looked completely lost in the playoffs.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

[Dragon]

Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

Who? I went through quick but I found two guys that had better years than Hughes that were 24 or younger - Price and Buchholz. Other guys -

Matusz - 175 IP 4.30 ERA 1.34 WHIP 98 ERA+

Bergeson - 170 IP 4.98 ERA 1.43 WHIP 85 ERA+

Davis - 168 IP 4.07 ERA 1.35 WHIP 97 ERA+

Cecil - 172 IP 4.22 ERA 1.32 WHIP 98 ERA+

Hughes - 176 IP 4.19 ERA 1.24 WHIP 102 ERA+

Like I said, I went through quick so probably missed a guy or two but what about Hughes makes him worse than other 24 year olds in the division. Obviously Price and Buchholz were on another level last year.

I guess unless you are breaking it down to Hughes had two terrible months and other guys didn't. I didn't look that deep into the stats but I'm sure I could find most of these other guys having some terrible months.

[Dragon]

Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

I'm definitely not writing them off, but they got worse than last year. Their replacement for Crawford might be in-house but that doesn't mean he's gonna be putting up Crawford like numbers any time soon.

Their team has a ton of potential obviously but they're breaking in a couple rookies this year. Maybe they go crazy and produce right out of the gates but more likely than not they'll go through some growing pains.

They might have the second best rotation in the division but its not like it doesn't have as many questions as other teams in the division. They have Price who should be great, followed by Shields who was as bad as Burnett last year, two guys who had solid years last year in Davis and Niemann and a rookie in Hellickson. They have a ton of potential but still have questions.

[Vox Populi]

Remember, not all of the young AL East starters had their age 24 season last year. For the most obvious example, Lester's age 24 season dusts Hughes' in every conceivable way save run support and inexplicable levels of hype.

And yeah, the other 24 year olds in the division last season were either substantially more consistent that Hughes or finished like future studs, as opposed to blowing their wad 8 weeks in (predominantly against injury depleted and/or mediocre teams at that) and limping to the finish line.

While you're looking at numbers, though, may want to look at Ivan Nova's minor league career and see why the other 4 teams are salivating at the prospect of hitting against this guy 3 or 4 times.

[Dragon]

Obviously if were are comparing Hughes to some of the better pitchers in the game like Lester he doesn't match up. I'm not arguing that.

Going through quick again I don't see where your argument is coming from. Matusz had months with ERAs of 7.50 and 8.10, Bergeson had months with ERAs of 12.19, 11.17 and 6.32, Cecil had months with ERAs of 5.3 and 6.9, Davis had months with ERAs of 6 and 4.74. Not seeing much consistency here.

I'm not getting where you think Hughes pitched his best games against mediocre and injury depleted teams either.

And I know all about Nova. I'm not the biggest Nova fan at all and I'm not expecting him to be great. If he could be a solid 4-5 starter in the bigs I'd be happy.

I guess if you're argument is that other guys ended the season pitching better than Hughes I can't argue. But I don't see how that makes them substantially more consistent. Especially when you look at their ERAs on a monthly basis.

[Vox Populi]

That'd be why I said either/or and not both.

Now, where am I getting that Hughes' 2 months worth a damn were against injured, bad or struggling teams?

Let's see - he pitched against Boston twice, and in one of those appearances they knocked him around. Fell short of a quality start vs. Anaheim, he drew the Orioles in the throes of their April of .250 ball. He got the A's when the A's were all banged up, the White Sox when they were a .400 team due to injuries, the Tigers during a .400 month, the Indians and the Mets - 'nuff said on those 2, I assume. That's not exactly a stellar resume.

[Dragon]

Even if you're talking about "finishing like future studs" I don't see how that makes their seasons better than Hughes'.

Looking at the numbers overall Hughes was better than all of them except Price and Buchholz.

I'm sure I could look through any of these guys hot streaks and find excuses for why the team they were facing weren't good. I'm sure I could go through and find excuses for the end of the year as well. I'm guessing some of these guys faced Boston the last two months when they were a .500 team and hurt by injuries.

[Dragon]

And again you're talking about Hughes' "two good months" and not seeing that most of these other guys had months much much worse than Hughes worst ones.

[Vox Populi]

My whole point is that Hughes has yet to do anything to live up to the fairly insane level of hype or the somewhat blind support that he's received as a #2 starter in the most competitive division in baseball. Yankee fans are talking him up as the next big thing, but in reality he's an extreme fly ball pitcher who pitches to contact in general whose home stadium has a tendency of allowing fly balls to gain wings. One home run per 20 plate appearances at home is a shocking number even for Yankee Stadium.

[OssMan]

who here is going to OPENING DAY

Nationals representing here

[Innovator]

Let's unsticky this. Cmon.