Star Wars - SPOILERS INSIDE

[Mercenary]

Just when IO thought I was out. It pulls me back in!

[Big Vic]

NERDSSSSS!!!!!!

[Fignuts]

Some retards are boycotting this because there's black people in it.

[Big Vic]

Some retards or like 4 racist retards but the media is making it out like its a huge group of people?

[Blonde Moment]

Colbert gave his theory on the polt of the Force Awakens and I almost agree with it

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5-Ff40Xre4o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Although I like the idea of the Rebel's/Alliance becoming just as ruthless as the Empire where a victory by either side changes nothing and I suspect It was mentioned that the Leia and company may not be so thrilled to see Luke at the end of the movie and I believe it's because they/she were hoping the Jedi artifact would give them the advantage they would need to win once in for all and Luke basically tells them NO because they have become so much like the empire used to be.

[Jura]

[Theory] Jar Jar Binks was a trained Force user, knowing Sith collaborator, and will play a central role in The Force Awakens (https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3qvj6w/theory_jar_jar_binks_was_a_trained_force_user/)

[Fignuts]

lol yeah I read that yesterday. Good stuff.

[Sixx]

Hey, so is Phasma female?

I know they cast a "chick" to portray Phasma, but I'm not sure it means anything. Christie is like 6'3.

[Fignuts]

They will probably present her as a male at first, with a voice modulator, and then at some point she'll take off the helmet in a samus aran style big reveal.

Thatsmy guess anyway.

[Kalyx triaD]

I don't think they'd be so open about the casting if they wanted to pull a Metroid.

[Lock Jaw]

There would prob be "social media outrage" if Phasma is a man despite being played by a woman....

[Kalyx triaD]

There'd be no reason to do something like that tho.

[Sixx]

I was more thinking it's never told, never shown. Just a silver Stormtrooper who's badass.

[Kalyx triaD]

They announced the casting almost as soon as she was revealed in costume. I don't think a swerve was ever in the cards. They might film her taking off the helmet in a way it's a swerve to the characters in the scene but they're comfortable letting us know she's a chick.

[Jura]

https://i.imgur.com/yeWFUBm.gif

[Sixx]

Potential spoiler

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTPVINzU8AAHxBy.jpg:large

Makes sense, Lando being like the only black guy in the old trilogy.

Wouldn't be the first time toys revealed too much.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

lol

[parkmania]

I read about this the other day - that ONE particular seller is the ONLY one who is claiming that on that particular item. Whether or not it's true, at this point I'd say it's speculation intended to artificially create an additional buzz around what they are selling.

[Lock Jaw]

Regardless, I will not click that spoiler....

[Sixx]

I read about this the other day - that ONE particular seller is the ONLY one who is claiming that on that particular item. Whether or not it's true, at this point I'd say it's speculation intended to artificially create an additional buzz around what they are selling.

I thought Disney Lucasfilm Ltd. was the seller.

[parkmania]

I thought Disney Lucasfilm Ltd. was the seller.

It's all in the details. The seller (P&E Enterprises) says that the product is manufactured by "Disney Lucas Films Ltd." which is not a real entity when written that way. The biggest takeaway is that on Amazon (which is where this item is listed for sale), the product description is written by the seller. Nowhere on the packaging does it actually say the spoilerish thing P&E is claiming.

[Blonde Moment]

So new Tv spot came out talking about sharing the same eyes and for a brief instant, Rey, looks strikingly like Padmé. So many questions left ...
Is Finn Lando's
Could Ren and Rey actually be Leia and Hans twins? One obsessed with their legacy and the other abandoning it totally? .

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Potential spoiler

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTPVINzU8AAHxBy.jpg:large

Makes sense, Lando being like the only black guy in the old trilogy.

Wouldn't be the first time toys revealed too much.

They should be class action lawsuited!

[Theo Dious]

It's all in the details. The seller (P&E Enterprises) says that the product is manufactured by "Disney Lucas Films Ltd." which is not a real entity when written that way. The biggest takeaway is that on Amazon (which is where this item is listed for sale), the product description is written by the seller. Nowhere on the packaging does it actually say the spoilerish thing P&E is claiming.

So basically, racism. If the prequels had been released first you would have seen claims that Lando was Mace Windu's son.

[Sixx]

That's not racism. Lando just happens to be the only black guy in the galaxy.

[Big Vic]

Yeah, it's pretty much science.

[XL]

Tickets booked for December 19th. #GoldClass

[Lock Jaw]

Whoa damn.... just read Vader Down #1..... badass....

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Just booked my flight to a Galaxy far far away. December 18 in Real3D. Get ready for hyperactive. We've gone to plaid!

[Emperor Smeat]

Film's already made $50 million from early advance sales according to reports. Ended up breaking the previous record held by the first Hunger Games film.

Advance ticket sales for Star Wars: The Force Awakens have already generated over $50 million in sales for J.J. Abrams' upcoming sci-fi film.

This staggering figure, first reported by Wall Street Journal, is breaking records at various theater chains. In fact, Fandango confirmed to Variety that The Force Awakens is now the highest-grossing advance ticket-seller in the company's history, surpassing the first Hunger Games $25 million figure.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/20/star-wars-the-force-awakens-makes-50-million-in-advance-ticket-sales

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Just back from it now. It's brilliant. It's Star Wars in a way the prequels never were. Hits all the right spots. Echos back to the originals brilliantly without screaming in your face about it. There's only one lime that's a bit too on the nose in a "nudge nudge, wink wink, remember this from the originals?".

There's still plenty left open to be revealed in future films too.

Daisy Ridley is so fit. I love her.

[Sixx]

so supposedly daniel craig has a cameo as a stormtrooper, delivering a line during rey's interrogation (that's not really a spoiler, is it)

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Heh, I hadn't heard that. I did just read before that Simon Pegg's in it too. Their roles are akin to that of Nathan Fillion's cameo in Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Kylo Ren is a brilliant villain by the way. I can see some people not liking certain aspects of his character, but I thought he was really well done.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Will write up a big post tomorrow full of spoilers on my thoughts on the film.

[Fignuts]

Thought this was out tomorrow, but my theater is playing it. Gonna see it in another hour or so.

[Sixx]

Heh, I hadn't heard that. I did just read before that Simon Pegg's in it too. Their roles are akin to that of Nathan Fillion's cameo in Guardians of the Galaxy.

yeah, simon pegg's character even has a name - unkar plutt

it was pegg who outed craig, craig denied at first, but turns out he was in it after all, according to EW

so i dunno, if you're gonna see him, pay attention to the interrogation scene and maybe you'll recognize his voice or something

[Corporate CockSnogger]

JJ Abrams buddy Fat Greg Grunberg is of course given a part too. One of my friends who didn't know who he was actually asked me afterwards if he was a fan who won a competition to get a part in the film.

[road doggy dogg]

Incredible movie. Spoiler stuff here because I know people will stupidly open thread without seeing movie yet.

Fucking caaaaaalled Han dying. No way Harrison Ford was doing three movies. Loved it. Kylo Ren teased the face turn but in true WWE fashion once that embrace lasted just a bit too long you knew what was coming. Fuck yeah. Tear up some Rebel scum, Kylo.


Less spoilery: Daisy Ridley is beautiful. I thought she was perfect in the role. Loved every moment she was on-screen.

[road doggy dogg]

I like how they blended a good mix of nostalgia old stuff without going TOO overboard with it. I mean... it could've been toned down a bit but whatever. I get it. I like that they introduced a "new batch" of heroes to kind of take the mantle now. I thought Rey was awesome. Finn was super too, go PK Subban.

There were two lines that kind of bugged me. Right near the start when buddy is all "Who talks first, you or me?" it just felt a little "too" casual/jokey. I get the guy is kind of a GOOFBALL just bugged me how nonchalant he was feeling in a pretty dramatic moment.

Also Han's "Death Star" throwaway line. Idk. Was fine, just felt a littttle too tacked on.

Some of the scenes were awesome. I love the Supreme Leader's "chamber" (for lack of better term). Felt really imposing and fitting of a total bad guy hangout spot. That shot of when the PLANET LASER BEAM OF DEATH was blowing up the planets, when the one shot is of the people looking at the oncoming laser... damn. I was hoping they'd give it like 1 or 2 more seconds there to really sink in the feeling of dread. But that was intense. Loved it.

[Lock Jaw]

Great flick...

Loved Rey, and there is still so much to her and her character and backstory for future episodes.

I am kind of craving backstory for everything now. I want to know how exactly things got as they are. What did Finn go through all of his life? Who is Rey? Why exactly did there NEED to be a resistance? It was clear that there was a New Republic, but why didn't they oppose the First Order openly? What was the situation that there needed to be a "resistance"? I guess we won't really get into the boring politics stuff in this trilogy because OH SHIT THEY JUST BLEW UP CORUSCANT. But still, wouldn't mind knowing the backstory on the boring political stuff.

I almost WANT them to just say F it and recast Han/Luke/Leia and make some movies set between 6 and 7 to explain how we got to where we are. I will also just accept some books/comic books, I guess.

My one thing that "bugged me" about the movie was Chewbacca walking right past Leia after returning from Han dying.... DAMN CHEWIE, that's cold!

[Fignuts]

yo, got super lucky. Tickets all sold out when I got there. Was walking away when a chick I know recognized me and called me over. One of their friends flaked on them so they had an extra ticket. Saw this shit for free, son!

Loved this movie so much. Finn and Rey are superb new protagonists, and have great chemistry. I like how the trailers mislead everyone into thinking finn was the jedi. Nice curveball. And speaking of curveballs...Kylo Fucking Ren y'all. A lot of people expected rey to be han and leias kid, which I still think she is, but I was not expecting the Kylo Ren twist at all. I liked Ren a lot. Especially his voice and how they didn't just go for vader 2.0. It's different in that it's authoritive and soft at the same time. Makes his presence more chilling.

Think most people predicted Han dying, just because ford is so old, but knowing didn't take away from the scene at all. Tremendously done.

Glad they aren't bothering with the political nonsense like the prequels. but I hope they at least mention why the republic wasn't seemingly taking an active stance against the first order, in the next film. Kind of a big plot hole.

Big mystery is Supreme Commander Snope. He looked appropiately intimidating and powerful. Looks old and battle scarred too. Where did this guy come from and where was he during the original trilogy? I have my own theory. I think it's Darth Plaigous. Guy is powerful enough that he tricked Sidious into thinking he killed him and has been in the shadows manipulating events for generations.

But anyway, yeah. Fucking awesome movie. J.J. knocked it out of the park.

[Black Widow]

I liked it more than all the others besides A New Hope.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I liked Kylo Ren turning out to not be an invincible machine of a villain like Vader was. It separates his character a bit. He's a young, evil little shit who idolises Vader, but while he can be vicious, he's not quite there yet in terms of his ability, fear factor or even his mentality. There's room for his character to grow into a sinister bastard whose confusion at being pulled from both sides of the force makes him quite unstable. I can see him getting some stick for the tantrums he had but I actually really liked that side to his character.

General Hux chewed the scenery in every scene he was in but he was a pretty great cocksure counterpart to Ren.

Crazy that C-3PO probably got the biggest laugh out of me.

[road doggy dogg]

To expand on Fignuts' first paragraph: are we certain that Finn isn't as well? I mean, his upbringing suggests it's a complete longshot but he wasn't exactly useless wielding the lightsabre. Could just be a general proficiency with weapons though. One thing I was super hoping to happen even if it would've just been total fan-service and not necessary would be when Finn was running around with that Storm Trooper blaster/taser thing in one hand and the lightsabre in the other, would've been bad-ass to see him dual-wielding a blaster in one and sword in the other and just going to town. Whatevs though.

OH and speaking of Ren's tantrums, that scene where the two Storm Troopers nope right out of the hallway was fucking brilliant.

I love Kylo Ren. Think he could potentially be a better villain than Vader. Yeah, come at me.

[Fignuts]

Finn could be, but I would attribute his proficiency with the saber solely to melee training. I mean we see that stormtroopers obviously have that in these movies.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah, I think that's more likely than anything. Would be cool if maybe once Luke is brought back into the fold if he restarts the Jedi Academy or whatever, then he trained Finn maybe. I do like the idea of having non-force-using main characters though (though I guess Poe fills that role nicely)

[Sixx]

so

I know kylo ren is han and leia's son, does the movie say whether that rey lady is their daughter? there were rumors

[Tom Guycott]

I'm going today! Not reading jack shit in this thread. Just came to share. And squee. Mostly, squee.

[Lock Jaw]

Luke Skywalker

Really really curious to find out what his "deal" is. I got serious "Kingdom Come Superman" vibes from him. Things didn't go the way he wanted, something bad happened, and he went into exile and abandoned everybody.

You would think, though, that "feeling" six planets being blown up (or however many it was), or Han Solo dying, would have been "enough" to "shake him out of it" and bring him back. Superman only needed Kansas to blow up.

So yeah, very curious as to his motivations and actions..... And very frustrated at having to wait two years for any sort of answers.

[The Rogerer]

JJ Abrams buddy Fat Greg Grunberg is of course given a part too. One of my friends who didn't know who he was actually asked me afterwards if he was a fan who won a competition to get a part in the film.Knew him from Heroes. Distracted me for a good 5 minutes

[Disturbed316]

I've never watched the Star Wars films, but that trailer is pretty sweet. Makes me want to go watch them.

1-6 were shown back to back last week and so far I've watched the first two from the original trilogy, think they were pretty decent.

Going to binge watch the remaining films so I can go see this new one.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Asian guy from Lost was in it. He looked terrible though.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Well, seeing as they borrowed a tonne from A New Hope (still enjoyed the movie), we will probably get the 'no, there is another' plot point in Episode VIII. Rey has too much force whoop-ass to not be a Skywalker.



Idea 1: They split up twins like the the prequels. Still don't know if that makes sense since they wouldn't leave a daughter young alone like that. Was goatee guy from the opener who died her caretaker? Seemed like she was along for a long time so probably not.


Idea 2: Is Mara Jade around? Maybe Rey is Luke's daughter. Too obvious but operas are usually a little bit obvious with the story.

-How'd the orange woman find the lightsaber it fell down the shaft in Bespin in Empire.

Fucking Han dying sucks. Some fucking dickhead was talking about it last night at a Burger King. Didn't want to say anything to make him confirm it as a spoiler but fuck that prick. Should just eat at Panera anyways.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

1-6 were shown back to back last week and so far I've watched the first two from the original trilogy, think they were pretty decent.

Going to binge watch the remaining films so I can go see this new one.

You need to watch them back to back as in 3-4-5 and then 1-2-3.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Knew him from Heroes. Distracted me for a good 5 minutes

He looked pretty bad too. I guess he must have been related to Porkins.

[Lock Jaw]

One thing that I was just "too excited by other things" to even think about until now:

Where the F did that "map to Luke Skywalker" come from? Who made it? Why? Was it Luke? Why is he doing this? I WANT ANSWERS NOW!

[KIRA]

Just got back the movie was awesome I have thoughts about a certain antagonist and a certain alignment which didn't hit me till halfway home. but they can wait.

a

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Asian guy from Lost was in it. He looked terrible though.

He looked like someone in their 40's. Which he is.

[Tom Guycott]

One thing that I was just "too excited by other things" to even think about until now:

Where the F did that "map to Luke Skywalker" come from? Who made it? Why? Was it Luke? Why is he doing this? I WANT ANSWERS NOW!

made me think of City Slickers II, with the map piece in the hat. My only problem with this was: did they not say the map was in "multiple pieces"? How the fuck did Artoo have the whole damn map except that piece? That's not multiple. That's two!

Also had a problem with BB-8. Not in the "easily marketable mascot" way, but in the plot... he was described as "one of a kind", and everyone kept identifying it by the orange. Why not PAINT THE FUCKING DROID?!? Nobody would be searching for a a green or purple BB unit. Nobody thought to disguse the damn thing.

[Tom Guycott]

I liked Kylo Ren turning out to not be an invincible machine of a villain like Vader was. It separates his character a bit. He's a young, evil little shit who idolises Vader, but while he can be vicious, he's not quite there yet in terms of his ability, fear factor or even his mentality. There's room for his character to grow into a sinister bastard whose confusion at being pulled from both sides of the force makes him quite unstable. I can see him getting some stick for the tantrums he had but I actually really liked that side to his character.



I liked that during one of said tantrums two stormtroopers saw him and were like "fuck that noise", and turned back to wherever they came from.

[Tom Guycott]

Luke Skywalker

Really really curious to find out what his "deal" is. I got serious "Kingdom Come Superman" vibes from him. Things didn't go the way he wanted, something bad happened, and he went into exile and abandoned everybody.

You would think, though, that "feeling" six planets being blown up (or however many it was), or Han Solo dying, would have been "enough" to "shake him out of it" and bring him back. Superman only needed Kansas to blow up.

So yeah, very curious as to his motivations and actions..... And very frustrated at having to wait two years for any sort of answers.

I wouldn't worry about Han's impalement from Marilyn Manson and subsequent tumble. He'll be back in the next movie as Solo the White!

Seriously, though. Vibe I got from him in the movie was like the cyclops from Krull, who could see into the future to where and when he dies. Kind got it ever since he was talking about how he didn't believe in the Force, but knows it's real now. Why else would he choose right then to go see his son and draw attention to themselves when they had a clear shot of escaping? Kylo's ability to focus his power is already pretty inconsistent, as he could tell they were on the planet, but not when he was 50 feet away. They could have set the charges and been on their merry. It was like Han was there to die.

As far as Luke's deal, maybe it isn't super sinister or even swervy as everything seems to suggest. Maybe they're going to play the guilt/burdened angle straight, and he exiled himself from everything and everyone because he really feels like the galaxy is better off. I mean, EVERYBODY is looking for the guy. And Leia and Han "went back tomwhat they weregood at" at an emotional rough patch, imagine multiplying that by virtually everyone.

[wwe2222]

I wouldn't worry about Han's impalement from Marilyn Manson and subsequent tumble. He'll be back in the next movie as Solo the White!

Seriously, though. Vibe I got from him in the movie was like the cyclops from Krull, who could see into the future to where and when he dies. Kind got it ever since he was talking about how he didn't believe in the Force, but knows it's real now. Why else would he choose right then to go see his son and draw attention to themselves when they had a clear shot of escaping? Kylo's ability to focus his power is already pretty inconsistent, as he could tell they were on the planet, but not when he was 50 feet away. They could have set the charges and been on their merry. It was like Han was there to die.

As far as Luke's deal, maybe it isn't super sinister or even swervy as everything seems to suggest. Maybe they're going to play the guilt/burdened angle straight, and he exiled himself from everything and everyone because he really feels like the galaxy is better off. I mean, EVERYBODY is looking for the guy. And Leia and Han "went back tomwhat they weregood at" at an emotional rough patch, imagine multiplying that by virtually everyone.

Leia specifically tells Han to come back with their son. when he questions how he could reach through to him, she says because your his father.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

One thing that I was just "too excited by other things" to even think about until now:

Where the F did that "map to Luke Skywalker" come from? Who made it? Why? Was it Luke? Why is he doing this? I WANT ANSWERS NOW!



R2 had it because he scanned the Imperial Network in A New Hope. It's the last Jedi Temple. Don't know why they had a huge piece missing unless Yoda did that before they could scan everything after Order 66.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Um, the correct answer to all of your questions is "the force did it"

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Anybody elses showing marred by young-lings that wouldn't shut up?

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Thankfully no. When I went to see the final Hobbit film there was a stupid child that wouldn't shut up; felt like slapping him and his father.

[Sixx]

i actually grabbed some dude's cellphone when i went to see age of ultron for the second time

i was drunk, he was on the phone, i took it from him said "fuck you", hung up and gave it back. it worked.

[KIRA]

Anybody elses showing marred by young-lings that wouldn't shut up?

Nope.

[VSG]

Just came back from the movie, and I loved it as well. I am sad that episode 8 is 1.5 years away now.

[Tom Guycott]

Anybody elses showing marred by young-lings that wouldn't shut up?

Nope. Was at a special, magical place with a super comfortable balcony and popcorn/drink refills. And 3D glasses that didn't muddle with vision (though there wasn't much worthwhile 3d in the film)

[Tom Guycott]

You know, I would be interested even in an animated film of the ownership history of the Millennium Falcon; from off the lot, to Han Solo "stealing it back" from a quite a list of theives in this one. I mean, even when it is first broached, Han won it from Lando in a card game, but it's never stated that Lando is the original owner. A timeline of events from the "point of view" of the ship seems like a story in and of itself. Has little to do with the main story, but seems like it would be fun, not to mention a neat way to begin to help re-expand the universe after the massive "none of this stuff ever happened" retcon.

[road doggy dogg]

Whenever talking about the Falcon, it makes me really really really want to play the TIE Fighter PC game. Has there been another game in the 'series' since X-Wing Alliance?

[Savio]

I thought the movie was ok, seemed too much like 'a new hope'. I didn't dislike it though, it was better than episodes 1-3 for sure.

I hope luke says he left because he was tempted by the darkside, Yoda said (in ep 5) if he left training then he would SURELY go to the darkside and we didn't see much hint of that in ep 6.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

We saw the hint of it in the battle where he went to town on Vader and cut off his hand. He was pissssssed.

[Wishbone]

Luke switching to wearing black in Return of the Jedi and being far more aggressive in his dealings also sorta points to some kind of dark side shift. After all Jedi rarely if ever wear black (the only real exception I can think of in the movies and shows proper is Anakin who turned to the dark side), and Jedi don't just go around making threats and boasting about their power the way Luke did at Jabba's palace.

[Savio]

hmm It's been awhile since I saw episode 6, was my least fav of the original trilogy. I only remember him acting aggressive with vader but I do remember him wearing black throughout the whole movie.

[Savio]

I also think that 'Metal' storm trooper was unnecessary, seems like just another thing to sell more toys.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I also think that 'Metal' storm trooper was unnecessary, seems like just another thing to sell more toys.

Yeah she was pretty much a non-factor in the movie. I was disappointed Lady Brianne of Tarth didn't see battle.

[Tom Guycott]

I also think that 'Metal' storm trooper was unnecessary, seems like just another thing to sell more toys.

Yeah she was pretty much a non-factor in the movie. I was disappointed Lady Brianne of Tarth didn't see battle.

Yeah, she may go the way of Boba Fett, but I doubt it. They can't have everyone do something "awesome" all in the first movie. Pretty sure there's a reason why she's their general that we'll see in a later movie. They do have two more of those things to fill.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Great flick...

Loved Rey, and there is still so much to her and her character and backstory for future episodes.

I am kind of craving backstory for everything now. I want to know how exactly things got as they are. What did Finn go through all of his life? Who is Rey? Why exactly did there NEED to be a resistance? It was clear that there was a New Republic, but why didn't they oppose the First Order openly? What was the situation that there needed to be a "resistance"? I guess we won't really get into the boring politics stuff in this trilogy because OH SHIT THEY JUST BLEW UP CORUSCANT. But still, wouldn't mind knowing the backstory on the boring political stuff.

I almost WANT them to just say F it and recast Han/Luke/Leia and make some movies set between 6 and 7 to explain how we got to where we are. I will also just accept some books/comic books, I guess.

My one thing that "bugged me" about the movie was Chewbacca walking right past Leia after returning from Han dying.... DAMN CHEWIE, that's cold!



That wasn't Coruscant though. It just was a planet that looked like it. Hosnian Prime.

[Fignuts]

Phasma has been confirmed for episode 8, so hopefully she gets more time to shine.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Anybody surprised at how pussy the New Republic looked? Seemed like they wasted 30 years doing jack shit if the First Order could whip their ass. From a Republic to a "Resistance?" Or is it just a group fighting the First Order as an off shoot of the New Republic to make it a fair fight?

[Sixx]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=129146

Even if you're not familiar with the name, you'll know James Arnold Taylor's voice from his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in The Clone Wars animated series. He and a number of other voice actors familiar with the Star Wars Universe (including Sam Witwer and Catherine Taber) provided vocals for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, but it turns out that Taylor's line as Obi-Wan was replaced when J.J. Abrams brought in the real deal; Ewan McGregor! That's right, the actor from the Star Wars prequels was the one who says "Rey" during the vision she has after touching Luke's lightsaber

[Fignuts]

The resistance is separate from the republic.Like I said, one of the minor flaws is that they never explain why it's seemingly just the resistance fighting the First Order.

Maybe The Republic just didn't take the First Ordet setiously, the saame way the empire underestimated the rebels in the first movies.

Anyway, now that the First Order has destroyed the senate, I'm sure we'll see the Republic in subsequent films, though if I had to guess, it will be a situation where they are against the First Order but not on the side of the heroes either. Borsk Feyla situation like the EU.

[Lock Jaw]

One of the "best" speculation/analogy I read was that the New Republic didn't want open war with the First Order, so Leia goes and forms the Resistance.... but the New Republic gives them weapons and equipment. Much like the USA would give weapons to "resistance" fighters in various countries they didn't want to have open war with but would like it if someone else was in charge of.

So then the First Order, despite their main combative enemies being the Resistance, are sour at the New Republic and blow them up.

[Sixx]

so resistance is talibs!

[McLegend]

Are we sure it was Coruscant that was destroyed? I mean yeah it looked exactly like it, but why it was never mentioned by name? I think STD might be right

I could see Han Solo's death coming, but I was still shocked and saddened. Kylo Ren interests me . Not being a an unstoppable killing machine probably makes him more interesting.

I think Rey being Luke's daughter is too obvious. I don't know who else could be her parents though. Luke better be one bad motherfucker when he does come back.

Why can't Episode 8 be out right now?

[McLegend]

Loved how "gritty" the movie looked.

[Lock Jaw]

Are we sure it was Coruscant that was destroyed? I mean yeah it looked exactly like it, but why it was never mentioned by name? I think STD might be right

I could see Han Solo's death coming, but I was still shocked and saddened. Kylo Ren interests me . Not being a an unstoppable killing machine probably makes him more interesting.

I think Rey being Luke's daughter is too obvious. I don't know who else could be her parents though. Luke better be one bad motherfucker when he does come back.

Why can't Episode 8 be out right now?

Reading about it "online", it was indeed not Coruscant that was destroyed. STD is correct. New Republic and its senate set up on some other worlds.

[McLegend]

The children that Ray hears crying when she finds the lightsaber are the younglings that Anakin killed in episode 3? If so that's another nice touch.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

The children that Ray hears crying when she finds the lightsaber are the younglings that Anakin killed in episode 3? If so that's another nice touch.

Still don't like how they had Anakin do that. Why should we care about a redemption of a child killer? Seems like they went way too far to be dark and did the original films a discredit.

It's like how they changed the voice of Boba Fett to be Jangos in Empire. Stupid plot devices from the prequels should not effect the originals it should be the other way around because they are the classics.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, would be much better if he was just a regular mass murderer of adults. Now there's a guy I can get behind.

[The Rogerer]

Still don't like how they had Anakin do that. Why should we care about a redemption of a child killer? Seems like they went way too far to be dark and did the original films a discredit.

It's like how they changed the voice of Boba Fett to be Jangos in Empire. Stupid plot devices from the prequels should not effect the originals it should be the other way around because they are the classics.You were fine with him bombing an entire planet with millions of children then

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It was Grand Moff Tarkin's idea and the Emperor put him in charge not Vader. He couldn't disobey.

[road doggy dogg]

What are you on about?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

That Vader didn't destroy Alderaan The Grand Moff Tarken did.

[road doggy dogg]

#AlderaanLivesMatter

[Wishbone]

hmm It's been awhile since I saw episode 6, was my least fav of the original trilogy. I only remember him acting aggressive with vader but I do remember him wearing black throughout the whole movie.

Yeah, he's not like full on "I'll rip your face off" aggressive. Most of it comes from dialogue and not from actions. He's just overly threatening with his words and tends to act way more cocky than you'd expect from a Jedi. I mean that could just be because at the time Lucas hadn't established all the Jedi rules yet, but he does come across as much more threatening than most Jedi do.

[Fignuts]

I dunno about that. He tries to end the conflict with Jabba nonviolently several times, and tries to reason with Vader too. Theonly time we really see him cut loose is at the end of the fight when Vader says he'll turn Leia.

[Fignuts]

I don't have as much a problem withAnakin killing the younglings as I do about how fast he went from blubbering like a little baby about attacking Mace Windu to slaughtering children.

[Wishbone]

Yeah, I mean he totally does try to end it non-violently, but the way he does so isn't exactly super "Jedi-y". He flat out tells Jabba that he'll either surrender to Luke's demands or end up dead. I think the exact line is "you can either make a profit, or be destroyed". Death threats don't usually go hand and hand with the Jedi.

[Wishbone]

I don't have as much a problem withAnakin killing the younglings as I do about how fast he went from blubbering like a little baby about attacking Mace Windu to slaughtering children.

Agree 100% with this. Darth Vader being a cold blooded bastard that would kill children seems perfectly in character for him. It's just that Anakin from the prequels doesn't fit that bill. I think that's more of an issue with the prequels as a whole though. They didn't present Anakin the way they should have. He should have shown more violent tendencies from day one. Not killing kids or anything, but maybe show him being more aggressive in combat and like willingly (and joyfully) killing people despite Obi-Wan's protests would have been good.

[Fignuts]

To be fair he isn't a jedi at that point, and even then only had a small amount of training compared to spending his entire life training like the prequel jedi.

So a few death threats are par for the course really.

[Wishbone]

To be fair he isn't a jedi at that point, and even then only had a small amount of training compared to spending his entire life training like the prequel jedi.

So a few death threats are par for the course really.

Well, yeah, Luke isn't a Jedi at that point, and I'd argue that he never really becomes one in the movies (haven't seen Force Awakens yet so I can't say there). I mean to be a true Jedi you have to follow all of their rules and teachings and Luke never does that. In fact he goes against the Jedi teachings quite a few times. That's why I think it's safe to say that even if Luke didn't/doesn't turn to the dark side he'll still never be a true Jedi. However, that's a good thing in my opinion. Honestly if you think about it the Jedi are more to blame for Darth Vader's rise than Palpatine is. If Anakin hadn't been told by the Jedi that he wasn't allowed to love he wouldn't have had to hide his thing with Padme, and if he hadn't had to hide it he probably would have come to Yoda or Obi-Wan way before he went to Palpatine for help. Really Anakin only went to Palpatine because he felt like he had nowhere else to go for help.

[Blonde Moment]

I am kind of staring to feel like everything that has happened from Episodes 1-7 has been a direct result of Yoda's declining mental and physical health. The Yoda we find in episode 5 is a mere shadow of his former self and I suspect that while Luke might have been "ready" to take care of himself he was in no way ready to be a teacher of anyone.

Is it possible that Luke's vision in 5 wasn't about what could be but more of what will come to pass?

[Emperor Smeat]

Already shattered a few box office records and barely lost out on another quick record.

Box Office: ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Shreds Records With $238 Million Debut

“Star Wars: The Force Awakens” micronized box office records this weekend, racking up a monumental $238 million opening and justifying the Walt Disney Company’s $4 billion purchase of LucasFilm.

That 2012 acquisition was intended to launch a cinematic universe set in a galaxy far, far away: a series of interconnected sequels, spin-offs, and prequels that would serve as a filmic parallel to Disney’s Marvel Comics-inspired adventures.

J.J. Abrams’ nostalgic take on the series of space operas George Lucas created four decades ago was a hit with critics and fans, earning strong reviews and an A CinemaScore. Its opening soared past the previous high-water mark of $208.8 million established last summer by “Jurassic World.” It more than doubles “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey’s” December record debut of $84.6 million.

Globally, “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” scored the second biggest opening in history, earning $517 million worldwide, behind only “Jurassic World’s” $525 million bow. Unlike “Jurassic World,” the seventh film in the “Star Wars” saga did not have the benefit of showing in China on its inaugural weekend. It opens there on Jan. 9.
http://variety.com/2015/film/box-office/star-wars-force-awakens-box-office-records-1201665753/

[Tom Guycott]

Still don't like how they had Anakin do that. Why should we care about a redemption of a child killer? Seems like they went way too far to be dark and did the original films a discredit.



http://www.schnittberichte.com/www/SBs/3552/childkiller.jpg

[road doggy dogg]

Damn, $517M without China? That's pretty insane

[Reavant]

I gues i must be an asshole, but i didnt love it.

[road doggy dogg]

What about it didn't you like?

[McLegend]

The more I think about it the more annoyed I get that The prequels are as bad as they are.

After seeing Episode 7 I realize how much better they should have been. Episodes I,II, & III are such a waste.

With that said I'm going to watch the Phatom Menace right now. I haven't seen it all the way through in about 10 years.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Episode VII definitely wipes away the big shit stain that are the prequels.

I found the script was still clunky at times, though; I don't know if that was a homage to the past films as well. lol

[Ruien]

I don't understand all the hate for the prequels. Sure the 2nd was terrible but it's not like they were awful movies. 3rd movie was hot.

[Ermaximus]

Curious to see if Lando shows up as he was the only supporting character missing. I mean, Admiral Ackbar and Nien Nunb were there, so why not bring back Lando?

Also, does anyone know who the old guy at the beginning is supposed to be? They tout him as this old ally, but never once say his name before he is brutally murdered.

Could also be irrelevant, but isn't Ashoka Tano still out there somewhere in the galaxy?

[Lock Jaw]

Ashoka Tano's fate still unknown.... Alive in Star Wars: Rebels, but who knows what happens.....

Other than that... yeah, miss Lando.... hope he shows up in the next episode(s).....

[Ermaximus]

Episode VIII: Lando Seeks Revenge on the Sith

[road doggy dogg]

I don't know. I mean... what would having Lando in the movie really add? It would be the equivalent of some over-the-hill wrestler from the 90s making their shitty Rumble appearance for a quick pop. Seems unnecessary.

[road doggy dogg]

At least Akbar was like a strategist and shit and planned their attack etc

[Lock Jaw]

Maybe Lando is Finn's dad............. because he's black.

[Ruien]

Who was the old dude in the beginning?

[Lock Jaw]

Forgot about old man at beginning. Can't even picture the scene/him. Too much else.

[Fignuts]

Did Max Von Sydow play anyone in the original trilogy? Even if it was unnamed?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>While I've enjoyed the Star Wars series, I've never been a massive fanboy who knows everything religiously. I've only seen 2 and 3 once and can barely remember anything about them (and judging from general consensus, they were poor).

That said...this movie fucking ruled. Loved pretty much all of it. Occasional spottiness in the script but not enough to ruin anything for me. Was so worth it seeing it in IMAX 3D as well.</font>

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Did Max Von Sydow play anyone in the original trilogy? Even if it was unnamed?

Lord Vigo the Carpathian.

No.

[The Rogerer]

I don't understand all the hate for the prequels. Sure the 2nd was terrible but it's not like they were awful movies. 3rd movie was hot.I watched them last week. They are outright terrible movies. Cinematically dead.

[Rammsteinmad]

I'm probably one of the only people who enjoyed all three of the prequel movies.

Sure, they're nothing compared to the original trilogy, but they're still great films. Even Episode 1.

The CGI certainly hasn't aged well, though, but a lot of the battles, and especially the lightsaber ones, are amazing to watch.

[Reavant]

What about it didn't you like?

I left feeling very meh.

The story felt very small. I dont know how else to explain that statement. There wasnt an overall grandness to what was happening to me. I had all the nostalgic feels at first, but they went away as the movie progressed. There seemed to be no consequence at anything that happened, and really big shit did happen, but you didnt feel good or bad about it.

When the republic planets got blown up, you had no connection to them. For example in the new hope, you knew that alderan was leias home, and vader explained beforehand what the station could do before he did it then blew it up in front of her.

This time, you didnt even really know it was coming, and they did it to an entire system, but you didnt really care because you never even got the name of the planets they blew up. Noone was from there and noone cared.

I liked how they did the villain. He was young and struggling with his powers. Not some killing machine like Vader. The tantrums were actually a nice touch. But he seemed like a complete sociopath.

It was cool to see that he was Hans kid, but you saw it coming that he was going to kill Han. That whole scene was just duuuhhh. And the moment when he gave the sabre to Han like he was going to turn to the light, it felt like he was a sociopath playing with his food. He knew he was going to kill him and he did it that way to make it worse for Han. It looked like there was no inner struggle.

The main characters were done well and acted well, but I dont feel like I know them.

yes Fin was a stormtrooper taken and brainwashed as a youth, but he broke that programming pretty fast and pretty easy, and when he said what he was, he had no emotion to it and neither did the audience. It was like "this happened" "ok cool... moving on"

Same with Rey. no parents and mysterious past. got it.

WTF happened to Po? He just shows up in an xwing. I mean he has like a 2 second explaination.

Starkiller base was real cool, but it was just there. They gave it almost no explaination and blew up a bunch of planets. It also went down the exact same way almost as the Death star.

The movie was almost the exact cut and paste plot as ep IV.

[Reavant]

Also a lot of things just felt overly convieniently there. l

[Reavant]

It wasnt bad at all, I just wouldnt go see it again.

[KIRA]

I

The movie was almost the exact cut and paste plot as ep IV.

I had a similar feeling but mine was positive it felt familiar enough but with just enough to be different.

[Fignuts]

Saw it again.

Super convinced that Snoke is Darth Plagueis. The music that plays during the Snoke scene is almost the same track from the scene in ep. 3 when palpatine tells Anakin about him. Kylo Ren describes him as wise and Plagueis was known as Plagueis the wise. Could be coincidence or red herrings but it makes sense. You want to introduce a villain that is a bigger threat than the emporer, why not the emporers master?

[Lock Jaw]

Isn't Darth Plagueis dead? Unless you are saying that Palpatine didn't really kill him.

[Fignuts]

Either he survived, and tricked palpatine into thinking he was dead (which might explain all the scars), or Plagueis and Sidious were the true master and apprentice the whole time, and Maul, Dooku, and even Vader were just pawns in their greater schemes.

[VSG]

He probably did not. The now non-canon novels had a good section on how Plagueis was paranoid enough to have clones of him. Then there's the whole knowledge of the life force etc etc

[Fignuts]

I was a little disappointed that there were no really good standout tracks on the ost. Don't get me wrong, it was by no means bad, but if there's one thing the prequels did really great it was the soundtracks. So many good tracks, but in this movie nothing really stood out, besides maybe the song that plays during the final scene, but that's only like 2 minutes.

[Lock Jaw]

Liked this song

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/65As1V0vQDM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But it is a "subtle" song.... not one that you would really go around "humming"....

[Fignuts]

That was another one I was going to mention but even then, they don't hit me like some of the prequel tracks do.

DAT ORDER 66 SON

[Lock Jaw]

Thinking back on it, yeah, the prequels really did have a lot of quality tracks and songs. I guess maybe JJ wanted to just play the whole thing more "down low" or whatever....

[Wishbone]

Just got back from watching the movie. Definitely a great flick. Felt like a Star Wars movie from start to finish.

That said I also really like almost all of the new characters. They all held their own, especially Po. Even BB wasn't as awful (though I still hate his design).

Had the "big twist"/ending ruined for me by an asshole family member on Facebook though. When they said it I assumed they were kidding cause it just seemed so crazy, but as soon as the pieces fell into place I was like "that fucking bitch!" Still enjoyed it all though.

JJ definitely surprised the hell out of me. I didn't expect this to be this good and it certainly was the best Star Wars related thing I've seen/played/whatever in ages.

[KIRA]

Just got back from watching the movie. Definitely a great flick. Felt like a Star Wars movie from start to finish.

That said I also really like almost all of the new characters. They all held their own, especially Po. Even BB wasn't as awful (though I still hate his design).

Had the "big twist"/ending ruined for me by an asshole family member on Facebook though. When they said it I assumed they were kidding cause it just seemed so crazy, but as soon as the pieces fell into place I was like "that fucking bitch!" Still enjoyed it all though.

JJ definitely surprised the hell out of me. I didn't expect this to be this good and it certainly was the best Star Wars related thing I've seen/played/whatever in ages. The Clone Wars is really good if you haven't watched it you should its all on Netflix.

[Wishbone]

Yeah, I enjoyed Clone Wars. Rebels has been even better in my opinion. Love the characters and their interactions in it. Sorta reminds me of Knights of the Old Republic for some reason.

[KIRA]

Yeah, I enjoyed Clone Wars. Rebels has been even better in my opinion. Love the characters and their interactions in it. Sorta reminds me of Knights of the Old Republic for some reason.

I've heard good things about Rebels plus my girl Ahsoka is in it I've been wanting to see it but I can't seem to catch it my fingers are crossed for Netflix release.

[Wishbone]

I've heard good things about Rebels plus my girl Ahsoka is in it I've been wanting to see it but I can't seem to catch it my fingers are crossed for Netflix release.

If you don't mind the quality being a little "meh" there's a site I watch it on that I'd be happy to rep you with. The episodes are usually 480 to 720 so they're not terrible by any means, and they've got all of them plus pretty much any other cartoon you can think of from the last 10 years or so.

[road doggy dogg]

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

nice

[ct2k]

FUCKIN A. SHIT WAS UNREAL.

Seriously it was amazing and I want to bang that Ridleytits girl errwhere.

Can't wait for the next ep + the spin off movies etc.

HOLLA (etc)

[Zeeboe]

I was pretty much bored through most of it except when the legends were on screen.

[road doggy dogg]

Shocker, that.

[Tom Guycott]

Liked this song

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/65As1V0vQDM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But it is a "subtle" song.... not one that you would really go around "humming"....

Joint gave me that "first area of an RPG after you leave the first town" vibe, even while I was in the theater. Possibly even world map material.

[Frank Drebin]

Reavant makes alot of great points, tbh.

Also, maybe I missed it, but is the Order different from the Empire? Thought they said it was but they use all the same stuff.

[Big Vic]

I think Reavant and I hold the same feelings. I was wondering how much I would like this movie if it didn't have the star wars name on it and it was an entirely new IP.

[wwe2222]

Reavant makes alot of great points, tbh.

Also, maybe I missed it, but is the Order different from the Empire? Thought they said it was but they use all the same stuff.

It was formed from those still loyal to the empire

[KIRA]

If you don't mind the quality being a little "meh" there's a site I watch it on that I'd be happy to rep you with. The episodes are usually 480 to 720 so they're not terrible by any means, and they've got all of them plus pretty much any other cartoon you can think of from the last 10 years or so.


If you would be so kind.

[KIRA]

Dunno why people were flipping their shit over Finn he is an awesome character and a trooper that can actually hit his targets.

[Ruien]

If you don't mind the quality being a little "meh" there's a site I watch it on that I'd be happy to rep you with. The episodes are usually 480 to 720 so they're not terrible by any means, and they've got all of them plus pretty much any other cartoon you can think of from the last 10 years or so.

Me too please.

[Lock Jaw]

I'm mid-way through season 3 on Clone Wars. Keeps getting better "it seems". Will check out Rebels afterwards.

[Wishbone]

If you would be so kind.

It's in your rep box, yo. Have fun. :)

[Wishbone]

Me too please.

You get a link, and you get a link, everyone gets links!

[Wishbone]

I was pretty much bored through most of it except when the legends were on screen.

Well you're a clown and clowns have no souls so that's probably why.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I was pretty much bored through most of it except when the legends were on screen.

Sith happens.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Is Clone Wars worth watching even though we know it all ends up being a meaningless war? It's not too kiddie is it?

[Lock Jaw]

There are some "kiddie"-feeling eps, but also some "deep" eps, and some "good action".

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I started Clone Wars a few years back and found it incredibly boring (like much of the dreary prequels) so gave up after like 10 episodes, if even that.

Read a few things lately though like Darth Maul coming back and that Ahsoka bird meeting Anakin as Vader and stuff which sounded pretty sweet.

[Ermaximus]

Some Random Thoughts:

Love that Daniel Craig's storm trooper was named JB-007.

Spirit Solo? Yea or nah?

With Episode VIII, do you think we see Mara Jade Skywalker?

Again, does Lando appear? If even briefly.

Maybe we see or hear mention of Rouge Squadron?

Ahsoka for real though? Could be cool.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Only if Kylo Ren invents it in his mind. It won't be really Han since he wasn't a Jedi. It would just be a dream.

Aksoka only lessens Rey's importance of top woman. I don't think they would have had a series with a female lead if they knew there would be new movies where it would have more impact.

Billy Dee had back issues during filming so he wasn't available. Maybe he'll be better for later on.

[Fignuts]

Ahsoka'a presence wouldn't affect Rey's importance at all if done right.

[road doggy dogg]

STD that's stupid. That's like saying Han's presence lessen's Luke's or something. Don't complicate things. I like Rey.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

STD that's stupid. That's like saying Han's presence lessen's Luke's or something. Don't complicate things. I like Rey.

There is something to that or Mel Brooks wouldn't have combined them in SpaceBalls.

[Zeeboe]

Well you're a clown and clowns have no souls so that's probably why.

We're not nerds you mean.


Sith happens.


I hated the prequels too. Pretty much anything Star Wars-related that wasn't the three first films I'd like to see sent to a galaxy far, far away.

[ct2k]

Lando should come back. BDW must be dying to get involved in this ish. Serious bank to be made for him. I can't think of a high profile role he's had since TBB.

[Savio]

Some Random Thoughts:

Spirit Solo? Yea or nah?
No, ford is done with the movies

There is something to that or Mel Brooks wouldn't have combined them in SpaceBalls.
Stop it

[Frank Drebin]

Can anyone refute any of reavant's points? His point about Po is really bothering me.

[Lock Jaw]

Can't really refute any of them.

Still enjoyed the movie.

[McLegend]

Why do we need an explanation about Po?

It's either completely irrelevant or something that can be explained later in another movie. Not everything needs to be explained. Also Kylo Ren seemed like a sociopath, because he is a sociopath.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Read the book if you want his back story. He was the movies Biggs. Not a perfect fit because that would mean Finn was Luke and he didn't blow up.

[Wishbone]

I left feeling very meh.

The story felt very small. I dont know how else to explain that statement. There wasnt an overall grandness to what was happening to me. I had all the nostalgic feels at first, but they went away as the movie progressed. There seemed to be no consequence at anything that happened, and really big shit did happen, but you didnt feel good or bad about it.

When the republic planets got blown up, you had no connection to them. For example in the new hope, you knew that alderan was leias home, and vader explained beforehand what the station could do before he did it then blew it up in front of her.

This time, you didnt even really know it was coming, and they did it to an entire system, but you didnt really care because you never even got the name of the planets they blew up. Noone was from there and noone cared.

I liked how they did the villain. He was young and struggling with his powers. Not some killing machine like Vader. The tantrums were actually a nice touch. But he seemed like a complete sociopath.

It was cool to see that he was Hans kid, but you saw it coming that he was going to kill Han. That whole scene was just duuuhhh. And the moment when he gave the sabre to Han like he was going to turn to the light, it felt like he was a sociopath playing with his food. He knew he was going to kill him and he did it that way to make it worse for Han. It looked like there was no inner struggle.

The main characters were done well and acted well, but I dont feel like I know them.

yes Fin was a stormtrooper taken and brainwashed as a youth, but he broke that programming pretty fast and pretty easy, and when he said what he was, he had no emotion to it and neither did the audience. It was like "this happened" "ok cool... moving on"

Same with Rey. no parents and mysterious past. got it.

WTF happened to Po? He just shows up in an xwing. I mean he has like a 2 second explaination.

Starkiller base was real cool, but it was just there. They gave it almost no explaination and blew up a bunch of planets. It also went down the exact same way almost as the Death star.

The movie was almost the exact cut and paste plot as ep IV.

My attempt at debating some of Reavant's points.

The story did feel small, but that was on purpose. Re-watch episode 4 and you really get the same feeling. Sure, the Deathstar seems like a huge threat on paper, but think about it. Leia didn't even seem all that upset about watching her home planet get blown up. She just sorta sighs. No sobbing, no screaming, just a "well that fucking sucks". It looked like she found out her goldfish died rather than watching billions of people and everyone she ever knew or loved get vaporized. And even when they fight the Deathstar they don't send much of a fleet. Just like this movie the attack consists of a few X-Wings and that's about it. It wasn't until episode 6 that we got a truly grand feeling Deathstar battle.

Did you honestly care when Alderaan blew up? I can honestly say I've never met anyone who did. Sure, Leia was from there, but we as the audience had no real connection to it. It was just there. And like I said in my last paragraph Leia didn't exactly sell it. Hell, she just sorta forgot about it almost immediately and it's never brought up again.

Kylo was too nerdy in my honest opinion. The temper tantrums were laughable. Like seriously it felt like a SNL sketch spoofing Star Wars sometimes when he did that shit. I mean I laughed, but you shouldn't be laughing at the guy who's supposed to be your big villain in a movie like this. It was like watching an 80's cartoon most of the time. I will say though that it's not a problem if they're going somewhere with it. If he evolves from this over time thanks to his training with Snoke then I'll be totally behind it. The idea of a whiny little bitch turning into a badass machine of death is actually a good one, and is what Darth Vader was supposed to be. However, the prequels fucked all that up and Anakin never got the big payoff that should have come from it. Hopefully that's what they're doing with Kylo and it pays off.

The Han death scene I'll give you, but I don't think it was bad. Predictable =/= bad automatically. I feel like they did a good enough job of making it interesting, and I will give them credit for legitimately making me HATE Kylo Ren with a passion. Like I legit cheered out loud when Chewie shot the little bastard. I'll definitely be happy to see him die at the end of all this which is something I can't say I've felt for a bad guy in a movie in a long time. Good on them.

Finn's emotion (or lack thereof) over being a Stormtrooper is kinda understandable. 1) Star Wars isn't exactly known for showing lots of emotion in the first place (see Leia and Alderaan). 2) He was a Stormtrooper for literally 1 day. The dude was seeing his first combat ever and saw what was probably his only friend in the world die in front of him. It's totally understandable that he'd turncoat on the First Order when he never had any real connection to them in the first place. I'm honestly surprised more Stormtroopers didn't/don't turn.

Rey is mysterious for a reason. We're almost certainly learning more about her in the sequel movie. This wasn't meant to tell you everything. This is the first chapter in a series, not a stand alone movie. If they gave everything away now they'd have nothing to give us later.

I'm assuming you mean what happened to Poe after they crashed on Jakku, yes? Well, he tells us. He woke up in the desert after being ejected just like Finn was. Probably found a radio or something and had the Resistance send him a ship to pick him up. Pretty simple. If you mean where did he come from in the first place, well, why does that matter? We never find out much about Han Solo outside "he was a smuggler and pissed off Jaba" and finding even that much out took 3 movies. Like with Rey I say just give it time. They'll probably explain more about him later in another movie. Remember we're getting at least 2 more main series movies and a bunch of spin-off movies too. Hell, they could do an entire movie on each of the three main characters if they wanted, and they probably will.

As for Starkiller base and the comparisons to Episode 4, well, yeah that's exactly how it was. You're either gonna hate that or love it. I feel like they did just enough to make things feel fresh while also keeping a lot of familiar elements to give us that nostalgia feeling. And don't forget that George Lucas once said in an interview that he intended for the trilogies to "mirror" each other. I feel like Abrams was just trying to live up to that but in a good way instead of the shit way Lucas did with the prequels.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I will take on the point of the Starkiller Base: The speech by Hux was enough to get the emotion of the thing. It wasn't emotion on feeling sympathy but it should have worked on that level because it was a heel promo. The look after Hux had destroyed the base was so great. It was like 'Holy shit. We did it! Oh fuck what the shit did I just do?" in one look. Great speech and he was really the movie's MVP for me.

Starkiller Base is named because it steals the energy of a sun to get its weaponry. Once it sucks the power from the sun it fires and the sun dies. Not sure if they saved the sun by destroying the base because there was no reverse button pressed. They might all still die if they don't leave the system.

[road doggy dogg]

just gonna throw it out here now that anybody reading this thread at this point has probably seen the movie by now... we can prolly ditch the spoiler tags

really annoying clicking the button every single post

[McLegend]

Someone put spoilers in the thread title at least.

[road doggy dogg]

are people really that stupid where that would be necessary


but w/e, gopher it

[Ruien]

But I have not seen the movie! What the hell RDD.

[Ruien]

Hope Po gets more air time in the next movie. Seems like he can be a awesome character if he is given some extra variables besides being the best pilot in the Resistance.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

He gets sucked into a worm hole and has to race Tom Paris and Sulu in a 3 way race.

[Lock Jaw]

Ever since I saw this movie, can't stop thinking "Snoke. Snoke. Severus Snoke.".......

[Reavant]

My attempt at debating some of Reavant's points.

The story did feel small, but that was on purpose. Re-watch episode 4 and you really get the same feeling. Sure, the Deathstar seems like a huge threat on paper, but think about it. Leia didn't even seem all that upset about watching her home planet get blown up. She just sorta sighs. No sobbing, no screaming, just a "well that fucking sucks". It looked like she found out her goldfish died rather than watching billions of people and everyone she ever knew or loved get vaporized. And even when they fight the Deathstar they don't send much of a fleet. Just like this movie the attack consists of a few X-Wings and that's about it. It wasn't until episode 6 that we got a truly grand feeling Deathstar battle.

Did you honestly care when Alderaan blew up? I can honestly say I've never met anyone who did. Sure, Leia was from there, but we as the audience had no real connection to it. It was just there. And like I said in my last paragraph Leia didn't exactly sell it. Hell, she just sorta forgot about it almost immediately and it's never brought up again.

Kylo was too nerdy in my honest opinion. The temper tantrums were laughable. Like seriously it felt like a SNL sketch spoofing Star Wars sometimes when he did that shit. I mean I laughed, but you shouldn't be laughing at the guy who's supposed to be your big villain in a movie like this. It was like watching an 80's cartoon most of the time. I will say though that it's not a problem if they're going somewhere with it. If he evolves from this over time thanks to his training with Snoke then I'll be totally behind it. The idea of a whiny little bitch turning into a badass machine of death is actually a good one, and is what Darth Vader was supposed to be. However, the prequels fucked all that up and Anakin never got the big payoff that should have come from it. Hopefully that's what they're doing with Kylo and it pays off.

The Han death scene I'll give you, but I don't think it was bad. Predictable =/= bad automatically. I feel like they did a good enough job of making it interesting, and I will give them credit for legitimately making me HATE Kylo Ren with a passion. Like I legit cheered out loud when Chewie shot the little bastard. I'll definitely be happy to see him die at the end of all this which is something I can't say I've felt for a bad guy in a movie in a long time. Good on them.

Finn's emotion (or lack thereof) over being a Stormtrooper is kinda understandable. 1) Star Wars isn't exactly known for showing lots of emotion in the first place (see Leia and Alderaan). 2) He was a Stormtrooper for literally 1 day. The dude was seeing his first combat ever and saw what was probably his only friend in the world die in front of him. It's totally understandable that he'd turncoat on the First Order when he never had any real connection to them in the first place. I'm honestly surprised more Stormtroopers didn't/don't turn.

Rey is mysterious for a reason. We're almost certainly learning more about her in the sequel movie. This wasn't meant to tell you everything. This is the first chapter in a series, not a stand alone movie. If they gave everything away now they'd have nothing to give us later.

I'm assuming you mean what happened to Poe after they crashed on Jakku, yes? Well, he tells us. He woke up in the desert after being ejected just like Finn was. Probably found a radio or something and had the Resistance send him a ship to pick him up. Pretty simple. If you mean where did he come from in the first place, well, why does that matter? We never find out much about Han Solo outside "he was a smuggler and pissed off Jaba" and finding even that much out took 3 movies. Like with Rey I say just give it time. They'll probably explain more about him later in another movie. Remember we're getting at least 2 more main series movies and a bunch of spin-off movies too. Hell, they could do an entire movie on each of the three main characters if they wanted, and they probably will.

As for Starkiller base and the comparisons to Episode 4, well, yeah that's exactly how it was. You're either gonna hate that or love it. I feel like they did just enough to make things feel fresh while also keeping a lot of familiar elements to give us that nostalgia feeling. And don't forget that George Lucas once said in an interview that he intended for the trilogies to "mirror" each other. I feel like Abrams was just trying to live up to that but in a good way instead of the shit way Lucas did with the prequels.


Given the hype machine and history behind this, I suppose I expected more. I get the mirroring to the other prequels, but I was hoping for more of a resemblance, not reflection.

This brings me to my point on the death star. Acting in general was not the same as it is now especially in this genera so leave that out of it. However that was the first time an audience has seen something like that. A ship blow up an entire planet. So yea people cared if nothing other than it was shocking. This time there was not that factor and again no consequence. No jedis grabbing their chest, no ships coming out of hyperspace into a bunch of rocks, Nothing. The death star blowing up alderan put the cards on the table as to what the empire was all about. Other than more planets going down, nothing felt different.

You start off talking about Kylo like he is the big bad. Now he kind of is, but he is not there yet, and they tried to make that obvious. Theres nothing wrong with laughing at him and his actions. He is an angry child. That makes him interesting because of the potential he has in the future.

The death scene was shit. It was like watching a death row guy walk down the green mile. you knew what was going to eventually happen, but it was taking forever. Then, you had all the characters just watching it all go down without doing anything until it happened. Im sorry but it would make sense to me if they at least tried to get him to turn the fuck around. Then he killed him without remorse. I liked that he got shot too, but ugh whatevs.

The first order leader talked up how his brainwashing was perfect. Ok cool, but then you need to explain why fin dropped it the second he saw his friend's blood. Its not that emotion needs to be shown, but something. It doesn't matter if he had been a storm trooper 1 day or 20 years. They harp on the brainwashing so why is he different. Is it force sensitivity? explain or at least allude to something.

Yes rey is intentionally mysterious. One thing that irritated me was how fin was lying to her about being in the resistance, but when it came time to fess up to her, she was like ok yea no big deal. Now obviously it would have been cliché to have her be furious at him, but I feel like JJ abrams just pencil whipped the reaction to get over that plot point.

I mean the crash in Jakku. It was just "heres po in his xwing" yea he gives the explanation briefly but still it was slightly irritating.

I get that the trilogies like to mirror the plot, but the reason the originals were so cool was that they showed us things we have not seen before. They were ground breaking and I wanted them to mirror that here. Again, I expected more.

[Wishbone]

Given the hype machine and history behind this, I suppose I expected more. I get the mirroring to the other prequels, but I was hoping for more of a resemblance, not reflection.

This brings me to my point on the death star. Acting in general was not the same as it is now especially in this genera so leave that out of it. However that was the first time an audience has seen something like that. A ship blow up an entire planet. So yea people cared if nothing other than it was shocking. This time there was not that factor and again no consequence. No jedis grabbing their chest, no ships coming out of hyperspace into a bunch of rocks, Nothing. The death star blowing up alderan put the cards on the table as to what the empire was all about. Other than more planets going down, nothing felt different.

You start off talking about Kylo like he is the big bad. Now he kind of is, but he is not there yet, and they tried to make that obvious. Theres nothing wrong with laughing at him and his actions. He is an angry child. That makes him interesting because of the potential he has in the future.

The death scene was shit. It was like watching a death row guy walk down the green mile. you knew what was going to eventually happen, but it was taking forever. Then, you had all the characters just watching it all go down without doing anything until it happened. Im sorry but it would make sense to me if they at least tried to get him to turn the fuck around. Then he killed him without remorse. I liked that he got shot too, but ugh whatevs.

The first order leader talked up how his brainwashing was perfect. Ok cool, but then you need to explain why fin dropped it the second he saw his friend's blood. Its not that emotion needs to be shown, but something. It doesn't matter if he had been a storm trooper 1 day or 20 years. They harp on the brainwashing so why is he different. Is it force sensitivity? explain or at least allude to something.

Yes rey is intentionally mysterious. One thing that irritated me was how fin was lying to her about being in the resistance, but when it came time to fess up to her, she was like ok yea no big deal. Now obviously it would have been cliché to have her be furious at him, but I feel like JJ abrams just pencil whipped the reaction to get over that plot point.

I mean the crash in Jakku. It was just "heres po in his xwing" yea he gives the explanation briefly but still it was slightly irritating.

I get that the trilogies like to mirror the plot, but the reason the originals were so cool was that they showed us things we have not seen before. They were ground breaking and I wanted them to mirror that here. Again, I expected more.

Honestly the only reason the Deathstar scene was "bigger" was because, as you said, it hadn't been seen before. Now pretty much every Sci-Fi movie has a planet destroying thingamajig in it. I mean it's just kinda impossible to get the same reaction from people when they've seen something before. It's like seeing a magic trick or hearing a joke. The first time it's great, but every time you see it after it's gonna lose more and more punch. They did the best they could by making the stakes bigger with a whole system instead of a single planet, but even if they had given us more reason to care it wouldn't have mattered because we're all pretty jaded now. We've seen billions of people die in pretty much every blockbuster movie released over the last 20 years. It's old news. The only way I could see it actually having any real impact would be if they'd had them destroy a planet that a major character was on, and if they'd done that it would have hurt the plot. Han was already gonna die, and they clearly have something planned for Leia. I just don't think they could have done what you're asking in one movie. Maybe if they waited to show us Starkiller base until movie 2 or 3 I guess.

I totally get that, and that's why I said that Kylo could potentially have a great payoff and be a good villain. However, based solely on what we got in this movie he was pretty much shit. Like if this was it and we never got another movie then Kylo would basically go down as the worst villain in recent memory. Of course this isn't the end, but I'm just saying. Plus we don't know if that really is where he's planned to go. I mean the prequels managed to fuck that whole thing up so I think it's understandable to be a little weary of it happening again.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Han death scene. Personally it was tear jerking for me, and I had already had it ruined for me before seeing the movie. It wasn't about the surprise of it, but rather it was about the act itself. We knew and loved this character. Han was a part of anyone who grew up with the original trilogy's life. Seeing him die, no matter how it happened, was heartbreaking because it was like losing an old friend. And what made it worse was that we were losing that old friend after just getting him back after 30 years of waiting.

Sure, the order did talk a lot about their brainwashing being perfect, but just because someone claims something is true doesn't mean it is. I mean it would have been nice to maybe see a bit more development or something, but it's not really that farfetched to believe that someone would just break after entering real combat. My older brother was in the military. Growing up he was uber patriotic just like my dad, but after seeing real combat he became a lot more jaded. He didn't desert or anything like Fin did, but even to this day he doesn't have that same sort of "America!" zeal he used to, and he was actually expecting to go into combat from day one. From the way Fin talks he was a janitor and whipping boy for most of his early career. Honestly it sounds like he was never really all that supportive of the First Order in the first place, and honestly it seems like a lot of them weren't. Even the leaders of the Order broke when shit hit the fan. Anyone who was really that brainwashed would have rather died than turn off those shields, and any commander who believed that strongly in the cause would have gone down with his ship (or base in this case) instead of abandoning it. I mean it just doesn't seem like the First Order are really anywhere near as loyal or "brainwashed" as they claim to be. I think that line was really just more of a showing of bravado rather than any kind of actual truth.

Fin lying to Rey wasn't all that big of a deal in my opinion. I mean I guess she could have been a little more angry, but honestly given what they had just gone through together, and the fact that he'd helped her thus far so much I think it was perfectly acceptable that she didn't care. I mean, shit, if I had just stolen a legendary spaceship, escaped an evil order of space Nazis, met Han freakin' Solo, and escaped death by tentacle monster with someone who stood by me through all of it I'd be pretty understanding of a little lie like that. It's like, so what if he's not with the resistance? Dude's still a loyal friend that clearly has my back.

I will concede that I wouldn't have minded a little more from Po, but given the length of the movie I think anything with him explaining Jakku more would have just been a waste. I mean I'd rather they cut that then cut something that did make it into the movie. Like I said it probably wasn't that big of an adventure anyway. Probably just him wandering the desert for a day or so, finding a town, and then borrowing someone's radio to call for help.

Overall I don't fault you for being a little disappointed though. I mean they did hype the hell out of this. I never fell for the hype though. Honestly I wasn't impressed at all with any of the trailers or anything. I went into this expecting virtually nothing. Like I almost had lower hopes for this than I did for episode 3 simply because at least with episode 3 I knew I was getting shit. With this I wasn't sure what I was getting. So for me going in with zero expectations I came out hugely surprised with what I did get. I think most of your feelings probably stem from being over hyped for this than anything.

[Simple Fan]

Finally got to the theater to see this movie. I liked it and felt they did a good job of not overdoing the cameos. Felt like a original Star Wars movie unlike the prequels.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Big fan of the movie. I'm sure there are a bajillion reasons not to like it but I was too busy enjoying it.

[Simple Fan]

Took a cousin of mine that had never seen any of the movies and he really enjoyed it.

[Kalyx triaD]

Finally seen this. Long story short I liked it. Been bouncing around catching on discussions and criticisms and debates and speculations. While it's still fresh in my head here's my run-down, as well as replies/co-signs to stuff from this thread. I wanna remind again, that I like this movie.

- Yeah, this plot is almost carbon copy of A New Hope. Heroes coming together by chance, super-weapon, references to past legendary battles (though it's cute and that we are now totally in the know of these past battles. We're old guys; the original trilogy is today's Clone Wars), myths of past Jedi, even the planning stage scene complete with holo power points. This is almost a remake of A New Hope. This skews things for me in regard to people talking how much this feels like a Star Wars film. I'm sure what people mean is 'tone', less robotic dialogue of the prequels and more 'hell of a ride' scenes. However, I would challenge that it had very little choice but to feel like Star Wars since the movie kind of... cheats a bit by recycling so many beats from the most beloved era and most beloved movie. Was it too much biting? I give slack for it being the kick-off of a new trilogy and it works as kind of a reintroduction to the brand. It does put a question in mind: Can a new Star Wars movie feel like a Star Wars movie without recycling almost exact plot beats from other Star Wars movies?

- This is an aesthetic issue for me, and one I understand if people don't really mind: Why are X-Wings and TIE Fighters still in use? This era is as far removed from the Death Star era as that was from the Clone Wars. The mechanic designs of the Clone Wars were obviously echoing the curvy 60's tech in comparison to the then modern Death Star era. And yet, going from that to what we can assume is 'present time', they are still using X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Cars today do not look like cars from 30-40yrs ago. This was the logic in Clone Wars era vehicle design. This gets me because the lack of attempt in updating the war machines shows me the downside of Abrams' obvious adoration for the original trilogy. This combined with the plot issue gives me almost the exact same 'I like it but...' feeling I had with Superman Returns.

I'm afraid nostalgia may have hindered this movie's potential.

- Although I found it hilarious in a way; seeing a Storm Trooper mourn the death of another was kind of a game changer for me. I would like a Storm Trooper movie now. Just those fuckers living in a universe working for insane people, surrounded by super heroes and villains. Make the Chrome chick the big bad or whatever. Speaking of her...

- "Ohhh look at the chrome trooper. Holy shit it's a woman. This is who's playing her. Let's interview her. So much mystery. She looks badass. Definitely the new Boba. Abrams is saying very little, can't wait to see her..."

Scene 1: "Report to the principals office, trooper." "Yes, ma'am."
Scene 2: "I'M THE BOSS NOW." "You again? Dammit."
Scene 3: "You're making a big mistake." "throw her in the trash."

I get really annoyed when Abrams pulls shit like this. You go out of your way to put her in the best trooper armor ever, talk her up, then blow her off without any hint as to why she's even captain of anything. No fight scene or anything. Fuck, you could have gave her the Vibra-Tongfa duel with Finn - THAT would have had narrative payoff and elevated her threat level. Maybe in the next one she'll turn out to be Mandalorian or something, but big let down on Phasma.

- "How did you get Luke's lightsaber?" "Tell you later. lol"

You don't get to do shit like this, Abrams. If you want your 'Oracle' sans cookies, I get that. In fact it's quite inspired. I like her. But it really felt like you needed to get that thing in the heroes hands with minimal fuss. And given other reveals, it might just be, "Hey can you hold this for me?"

- Finn is my fave character of the movie. The most relatable, and very funny. Making this clear because I'm gonna tear into 'Reyny Sue' in a bit.

- Han Solo. Yeah his end was telegraphed and I think they should have Walking Dead his ass with out of nowhere stab from lil Ben. Again, I can only imagine it was that drawn out because Abrams wanted to give Solo a dramatic send off, but it was at the cost of shock factor. Kylo should have came out of nowhere and shanked him. Sure keep the face touch thing, but I would have kicked the audience in the balls with that one. Great to see Solo being Solo, though.

- General Leia (not Jedi Knight/Master Leia? I guess). I can't help but want to know more about whatever kind of break up she had with Han. Whatever went down with Luke and Kylo split them up, and I'm very interested in knowing that story. Also; why is she a resistance fighter? More on this new conflict >>

- So it's La Resistance vs The First Order? How in the holy shit did the good guys wind up as under dogs again, after literally blowing up the Empire? What kind of politics in the last 30yrs didn't set up all manner of laws and militaries to keep anything like the Clone Wars and Death Star Wars from happening again? This for me is a huge gaff that may actually have an interesting answer, but it makes the Republic look inept to allow The First Order to reassemble remnants of the Empire the way it did. Even if they stationed on the Outer Rim territories. This is a head scratcher for me.

- I'm gonna let the medieval hack and slash choreography of the big duel slide on the count that a) Finn rightfully has no clue what he's doing, b) Kylo is a poor tempered rageaholic and c) for the first time in Star Wars nobody actually has a direct line to a seasoned duelist. It makes sense that these are kids with swords just kind of hurting other.

But I am a huge fan of the Nick Gillard choreographed saber duels of the prequel era. Now that Rey presumably found a master, perhaps duels will get good again going forward.

Now let's talk about Rey after a quick snack.

[wwe2222]

The resistance is affiliated with the new republic. It was formed as sort of a special ops unit to combat the First Order who have been slowly growing in power but is not yet seen as a major threat. Leia decides to lead this effort as it seems several rebellion leaders did as well. Lukes absense has also led to a growth in their power.

Phasma will be back for more. This movie smartly didn't kill off any villains.

The tie fighters and x wing fighters have been gone through some changes. Why would the technology change? It rarely ever changed in these types of films. If you want change they built a bigger better Deathstar. Star Wars has been using the same tech for thousands of years.

The lightsaber duels in the prequels were all emotionless eye porn with Anakin Obi-wan being the biggest offender. They literally stand there for 30 seconds just twirling their lightsabers. It's complete nonsense.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

The lightsaber fights were 100x better in this than in the prequels with their backflips

[wwe2222]

The lightsaber fights were 100x better in this than in the prequels with their backflips

agreed

[Zeeboe]

So you guys think this film will stand the test of time like the originals have or is it just a flavor the month right now that will be forgotten by the mainstream and hated by the majority of Star Wars fans in fifteen years?

[Blonde Moment]

http://www.bantertoys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/starWars_deathTrooperMB_news.jpg

[The Rogerer]

Phasma might as well have been dead after she got merked and then completely surrendered and got literally thrown in the bin. Was she confirmed still alive?

[McLegend]

Yes she is. She is confirmed for episode 8.

[The Rogerer]

Wasn't Han Solo also? How did she escape? I will admit missing something as the fighter attack on the base is when I zoned out on both viewings.

[McLegend]

That I don't know. It was not explained how she survived.

[Simple Fan]

Well its kind of hinted. They put her in a trash compactor and we already know ow that turns out. I'm sure she was able to escape the trash and leave the base knowing it was going to be blown up.

[The Rogerer]

She's clearly the new Boba Fett then.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

having post star wars depression. There's no where to go from here



.... until the next one. Kind of perplexed Abrams isn't doing the next one.

[The Rogerer]

No one man should have all that power

[Kalyx triaD]

That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

He said he already regrets stepping aside after reading the script from Episode 8.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/23/star_wars_doesnt_have_a_heroine_problem_arguing_over_whether_reys_a_mary_sue_is_missing_the_point/

[The Rogerer]

She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

[Reavant]

That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.

This.

[Simple Fan]

What the hell is a Mary Sue?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It's comes from Star Trek fan fiction. The random person written becomes the best at everything because the writer is writing themselves into the role.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

[Kalyx triaD]

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/23/star_wars_doesnt_have_a_heroine_problem_arguing_over_whether_reys_a_mary_sue_is_missing_the_point/

I read that and the Io9 apologetics. It is them who are missing the point. I'm arguing from a purely writer's perspective. They are sites documented to be biased on the side of identity politics and they're doing damage control after hyping up the concept of 'FEMALE STAR WARS HERO SO COOL'. They are going to have to accept that the criticisms for such character types can be put upon her without it being interpreted as an issue with female heroines in general.

This is why I prefaced my write up by saying I don't have any issue with female heroes. At all. In fact I have preference toward them. But Rey is the very definition of Mary Sue. I'm not asking her to be depowered. I'm not calling for no more female heroes in Star Wars. This is about the development of Rey herself. I didn't write anything political at all. Mary Sue/Gary Stus have long been defined and debated about for years preceding the current social political critique of characters. Rey is not above it.

Rey is a Mary Sue character. I'm not 'missing the point', I'm applying a writer's term by exact definition. They are merely doing damage control. This is what happens when you have sites like Io9 and Salon making habit out of politically filtered review: When they come across an uncomfortable fact, they circle the wagons and do spin control. This would not be the case had the characters were switched between Finn and Rey. Same movie; but Finn is the badass pilot/techy/Force adept who saves the day in the final duel.

Hazard a guess how the response articles would read then? Here's a hint, "Male Power Fantasy". They would shred Finn and his portrayal as not only OP, but blah blah yet another dismissal of women in movies blah blah why did she have to be saved so many times. Finn's story arc on Rey would all of a sudden be detrimental to how women are portrayed. Rey's story arc on Finn would be blasted as Gary Stu and typical male dominance or whatever. This is the problem with that kind of critique versus my purely technical critique; they have to contextualize a narrative based on gender, while I adhere to set in stone terms and definitions.

I described a character type, they are protecting a narrative. In order for their articles to make sense we would have to throw out everything we know about how to spot a Mary/Gary - and I'm not doing that because people can't separate character criticism from attacks on all characters of that gender. Fuck that.

She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

When even Rog thinks they jumped the shark with her, we are dealing with a Mary Sue.

And again, once a-fucking-gain - I am not blasting this as 'bad'. There's nothing to defend purely from a technical standpoint. But they protests too much (as I stated in the other post). They project. Their reaction being some kind of damage control is because they think there was damage. They think female heroes is some kind of new movement they have to protect with unofficial PR articles. Only they care about it this way, not me or others. Because they are the ones with the slant.

[Kalyx triaD]

We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

This is a cop out.

- We know she regarded Jedi as myth.
- We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food.
- We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord.
- We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship?
- We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'.

Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that).

It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent.

Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.

[Kalyx triaD]

Btw, STD, do me the courtesy of having a convo with me if you don't agree with anything I wrote. We're all boys here, we're all cool. We can chat. Don't link a website (SALON of all places, too!) as a response. I can't talk to that person, and that person won't come here and read what I wrote. But you seem to... agree with the article(?). Where am I wrong. Where am I misusing the concept of Mary Sue. Let me know right here, because an article ain't gonna cut it.

Not putting you on blast, I just find that this would be more fruitful as a discussion among ourselves. Don't defer somebody else's opinion who has no more authority on Star Wars than any of us do.

[McLegend]

But it's possible she had some training at a young age and her memory was wiped or she had just forgotten since it was so long ago.

Then all of this starts happening it causes "muscle memory" which is why she able to do these things.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

She totally got captured at one point!

And every other time she did something heroic... Err.. The force did it.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I feel the concept of Mary Sue is sexist. It is already in the general population though so I'm not calling you sexist for using it.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

The force created the term.

[Kalyx triaD]

But it's possible she had some training at a young age and her memory was wiped or she had just forgotten since it was so long ago.

Then all of this starts happening it causes "muscle memory" which is why she able to do these things.

I can accept the 'amnesiac badass' archetype, it's been done may times before. The thing is, you can't wait til the middle of the movie to play with that. You have to pepper in subtle clues from the start. Something as simple as her sensing those bandits were about to steal the droid. It could be waved off on first viewing as her just having good awareness, and on second viewing it becomes a brilliant call-forward.

They didn't do this, which means a) Her character traits were written as they went along or b) She was always that badass, and they really didn't know how to express that without her coming off OP. But sure, I can buy her being trained and not knowing it. She could have even been one of Luke's first students.

And every other time she did something heroic... Err.. The force did it.

This reminds me: Han telling Finn that the Force isn't some cure-all was brilliant.

[The Rogerer]

Mary Sue is another term misused by millennial younglings, but what can you do.

Rey was written as completely infallible despite being untrained. They overtly made the point that this was a woman doing it so thats the choice they deliberately made, she's a Chipette. Skimming that article, they draw comparisons to male characters, but those characters are trained elites. She ends up slightly unrelatable as a result, but with a good performance and good dialogue, Rey ultimately overcomes it

[wwe2222]

Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.

Once Rey has her vision the force awakens in her and she goes with it. It's not as far off as you make it seem. The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.

It's called the force "awakens" for a reason. It's not called Star Wars: People who have th force

[Kalyx triaD]

I feel the concept of Mary Sue is sexist. It is already in the general population though so I'm not calling you sexist for using it.

I can actually explain why Mary Sue was coined before Gary Stu, even though they mean the same thing. It is true it was levied on female fanfic characters first.

Because girls are to this day the number one resource of fanfiction.

Naturally when Mary Sue was coined, it was after noticing how their author appeal/insert characters were written. These were primarily female characters. Over time the definition was fitting enough for any gender and applicable to even official works, such as Rey in this movie.

Here's the kicker, Slick; Mary Sue was coined by a community of mostly female - fanfic - writers.

Where the hell are you getting sexism from?

[Kalyx triaD]

Rey was written as completely infallible despite being untrained. They overtly made the point that this was a woman doing it so thats the choice they deliberately made, she's a Chipette. Skimming that article, they draw comparisons to male characters, but those characters are trained elites. She ends up slightly unrelatable as a result, but with a good performance and good dialogue, Rey ultimately overcomes it

You see, perfectly reasonable point. Rey is a good character, but trying to hand wave clearly apt descriptions of her character is ridiculous.

We're not gonna pretend 'Mary Sue' is some new, ambiguous term to protect Rey the character.

Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.

In the first Star Wars movie, before the midichlorian silliness, The Force was analogous to faith. You in fact can't say for sure if he used the Force or if he made the luckiest shot ever. Nowhere else in Star Wars was the Force used to make yourself better at shooting things. That was the brilliance of that scene; you can either take from it that Luke finally began to believe in himself and something bigger than him, or sure the Force totally saved the day. And even then Han had to save his six.

That is not the same as Rey's exploits. If she was at the end of A New Hope they'd just give all the medals to her. If she was on Dogabah she'd lift the X-Wing first try. She's an MVP. A lucky shot in a wombat sized vent would be the least of her highlights.

The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.

That's all well and good, but the execution leaves us with an OP character who could be put in any situation and come out on top. If you wanna argue that she's more attuned to the Force than Luke or ANAKIN, be my guest.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Just re checked who was doing episode 8 and it's Rian Johnson who did Looper, so I'm totally okay with that.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.

Once Rey has her vision the force awakens in her and she goes with it. It's not as far off as you make it seem. The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.

It's called the force "awakens" for a reason. It's not called Star Wars: People who have th force

:y:

[Simple Fan]

I have no problem with how Rey was written. She was a scavenger from a young age it seems and probably had to learn to fight to survive. If she is Luke daughter which I hope she is then the force awakening in her is plenty enough to defeated a weakened Kylo Ren. Remember Chewy shot him after he killed Han with his crossbow that they put over throughout the movie and he's not a sith lord just yet. Once she closed her eyes and embraced the force it was pretty simple, you just have to believed in the force. Really interested to see what happened between Ben and Luke to make him turn to the dark side. Really want to know more about Supreme Leader Snoke.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

This is a cop out.

- We know she regarded Jedi as myth.
- We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food.
- We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord.
- We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship?
- We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'.

Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that).

It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent.

Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.

Falcon:

She sells scrap to the person who owned the Falcon. The bread selling alien played by Simon Pegg. That alien ran out and said "THAT'S MY SHIP!" before the scene ended. She also knew the (illegal) history of Falcon's ownership. So, she had more than a passing familiarity with the Falcon. She ran to a more powerful ship because she knew the problems with the Falcon. She knew enough about the Falcon that she would probably not want to have to deal with it unless she had to.

The new default owner of the Falcon is Leia Organa Solo. Obviously she gave it to Rey to find her brother. Things don't have to be spelled out in front of you to understand things.

The only thing I don't get is why Chewbacca hangs around now. His life debt is over. Does he owe Finn a life-debt now? He did patch him up. Does a lifedebt transfer to marriage? Chewy has a wife and kid he hasn't seen since LifeDay. Can't he get some time off?

Selling Scrap:

She had to have a lot of skills to manage to scrap enough stuff from a dangerous downed Super Destroyer. Maybe she didn't know what her skills were from the Force but she had to have something guide her in that dangerous profession.

Sith Lord Defeat:

We don't know the length of Kylo Ren's training in the force. He was acting like a child in many scenes. He was shot in the chest, fought Finn with the lightsaber. There is also the point that he was force weakened by his actions of killing Han Solo. The action which was the reverse of what Snoke said (Either Snoke lied to him or he was wrong.) He was not at his best to say the very least. He also didn't want to harm her so he was taking it easy on her. He said "you need training." He was acting like Vader to Luke before he sliced off the hand in Empire after giving up at the time to seduce Luke. He was way off his game and was trying to bring her into the Darkside.

He lost the fight more than Rey won it.

[Simple Fan]

Agree with STD, feel like Chewy has spent all these years with this group it wouldn't be right for him to just leave and he did connect with Rey and Finn. Could be some Chewy drama in Episode 8 to.

[Simple Fan]

Really want Po to takeover the Falcon, Leia could give it to film as gift or something.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I have no problem with how Rey was written. She was a scavenger from a young age it seems and probably had to learn to fight to survive. If she is Luke daughter which I hope she is then the force awakening in her is plenty enough to defeated a weakened Kylo Ren. Remember Chewy shot him after he killed Han with his crossbow that they put over throughout the movie and he's not a sith lord just yet. Once she closed her eyes and embraced the force it was pretty simple, you just have to believed in the force. Really interested to see what happened between Ben and Luke to make him turn to the dark side. Really want to know more about Supreme Leader Snoke.

She has a clearly way more rough upbringing than Luke as well, where she would have had to use the force without knowing it on a way more consistant basis. Compared to Rey, Luke was coddled, lapping it up on the farm with Owen and Beru.

I dunno, I think they were trying to show that she is just mad fucking powerful and beyond anything that has been seen. And Kylo is not supposed to be a badass yet. He's no a disciplined powerhouse yet, and there's lots of holes in his game. He's kind of a spoiled rotten, whiney dickhead and I like that about him. He's not seasoned enough to be Darth Vader. He's just a child, it wouldn't make sense for him to be calculated.

I just thought it was super dope, anything you can argue as bad was over shadowed by the sheer fun of it. Writing an essay of your complaints is great, but there was clearly so much stuff to enjoy I just don't understand why you'd find so many things to hate about such a fun, sentimental, awesome movie.

Certainly not a perfect movie, but it was so satisfying in so many ways.

[Ruien]

Rey was awesome. She also messed up by setting those huge beast out so her hacking skills are not the best in the world.

[wwe2222]

If you think Chewy is not sticking around to avenge his best friends death than I don't know what to say

[Kalyx triaD]

Falcon:

This whole section is conjecture or 'fan canon'. And that's fine. But my analysis requires no such speculation or reinterpretation of events. I am using the definition of Mary Sue to call a spade a spade.

Selling Scrap:

She had to have a lot of skills to manage to scrap enough stuff from a dangerous downed Super Destroyer. Maybe she didn't know what her skills were from the Force but she had to have something guide her in that dangerous profession.

This is more speculation. I do not see what is so difficult about accepting that Rey was written way OP.

We don't know the length of Kylo Ren's training in the force.

We know he received training to begin with.

He was acting like a child in many scenes. He was shot in the chest, fought Finn with the lightsaber.

I acknowledged these potential disadvantages in my write-up and still conclude beating him so clean is a long shot.

Retroactive comparison: Literally everybody hated how Darth Maul was beaten. The backlash was so loud and sustained for years that he was resurrected in the EU and being that Clone Wars is the only surviving SW extended media before the big buyout - he survival is canon.

Nobody, absolutely nobody ever, speculated how much training Maul had to lose so stupidly. But here we are entertaining Kylo's shortcomings while dreaming up explanations for Rey's abilities.

Me thinks it would be easier to say she was an OP character.

There is also the point that he was force weakened by his actions of killing Han Solo.

'Force weakened'? What is that, what are you saying here?

The action which was the reverse of what Snoke said (Either Snoke lied to him or he was wrong.) He was not at his best to say the very least. He also didn't want to harm her so he was taking it easy on her. He said "you need training." He was acting like Vader to Luke before he sliced off the hand in Empire after giving up at the time to seduce Luke. He was way off his game and was trying to bring her into the Darkside.

Conjecture, conjecture, speculation, theories, etc.

He lost the fight more than Rey won it.

This is hilariously absurd spin control.

She has a clearly way more rough upbringing than Luke as well, where she would have had to use the force without knowing it on a way more consistant basis. Compared to Rey, Luke was coddled, lapping it up on the farm with Owen and Beru.

And Anakin was a full blown slave. Still wasn't as OP as Rey in any movie.

I dunno, I think they were trying to show that she is just mad fucking powerful and beyond anything that has been seen.

This is possible. But to speculate this is to accept that she is indeed a Mary Sue; we're just adding 'by design'. And I'm open to that, it's just the wacky attempts at rejecting premise one.

And Kylo is not supposed to be a badass yet. He's no a disciplined powerhouse yet, and there's lots of holes in his game. He's kind of a spoiled rotten, whiney dickhead and I like that about him. He's not seasoned enough to be Darth Vader. He's just a child, it wouldn't make sense for him to be calculated.

I have already entertained these traits.

He should not lose clean to somebody who picked up a lightsaber that same day.

I just thought it was super dope, anything you can argue as bad was over shadowed by the sheer fun of it.-

Whoa whoa, hold the presses.

Wasn't anybody talking about bad or good. This is why I prefaced all of that text with how much I like Rey, action girls in general, and don't even mind Mary Sue type characters. I am not slamming Rey or the movie.

Technically speaking, with the established 'rules' of the SW universe, with past and current characters to compare to, with the established definition of Mary Sue characters - I am saying objectively that Rey is a Mary Sue. Just like Neo. Just like Batman. Just like Alice from the RE movies. This is not 'bad'. It is what it is.

[Kalyx triaD]

If you think Chewy is not sticking around to avenge his best friends death than I don't know what to say

Don't even attempt to pull this. Argue what I write, please.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

What I mean is that Snoke said killing Han would make him stronger in the force. It didn't.

[wwe2222]

use the force Luke, use the force. Not believe in yourself kid. Vader spends a good portion of his time force choking people. The force was a power, it's always been a power.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Not conjecture. Read the official novelization. Nothing would be written in it if it didn't pass director.

[wwe2222]

What I mean is that Snoke said killing Han would make him stronger in the force. It didn't.

Doesn't Ren comment he doesn't feel as he thought? I don't quite recall.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

He might have. I've only seen it once though.

[Kalyx triaD]

What I mean is that Snoke said killing Han would make him stronger in the force. It didn't.

We don't know that. We don't know if it was metaphorical or literal. We don't know that killing Han would upgrade him with Force Lightning or whatever. We don't know any of that. We don't know what stronger means in this case.

We do know he was partially trained by Luke and then presumably by Snoke. We know Rey never touched a lightsaber in her life and used Force abilities only that very day. We know Kylo can stop a fucking laser in mid air.

Unless there's very juicy exposition in Eps 8, Rey's story arc at face value makes no kind of sense without simply saying she's a Mary Sue. Any other explanation is pure speculation or suspension of Star Wars own internal logics. All I'm sayin.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

What I mean is that Snoke said killing Han would make him stronger in the force. It didn't.

Were you expecting him to get a little +1xp show up above his head and for him to level up?

[Kalyx triaD]

Not conjecture. Read the official novelization. Nothing would be written in it if it didn't pass director.

Which part are you referring to?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Both Ren's feeling weaker because of killing Han and also Snoke telling him killing Han would make him stronger. We don't know fully know was stronger means but it wouldn't look like that.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

We're probably going to get a lengthy exposition when Luke tells Rey where she came from. Wasn't one of the promos for the movies Luke telling somebody about his family's ability in the force?

[Kalyx triaD]

Both Ren's feeling weaker because of killing Han and also Snoke telling him killing Han would make him stronger. We don't know fully know was stronger means but it wouldn't look like that.

Sure.

But let me humor you on that front: It still doesn't account for the other 90% of the movie where a scavenger girl from Jakku possesses every skill imaginable to save herself and/or others.

Name a scene in the movie where she was overtly fallible/defeated/humbled and required the assistance of anyone else. Go.

And the 'Force sleep' totally does not invalidate the general observations. In fact her capture was the First Order's undoing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This whole section is conjecture or 'fan canon'. And that's fine. But my analysis requires no such speculation or reinterpretation of events. I am using the definition of Mary Sue to call a spade a spade.



This is more speculation. I do not see what is so difficult about accepting that Rey was written way OP.



We know he received training to begin with.



I acknowledged these potential disadvantages in my write-up and still conclude beating him so clean is a long shot.

Retroactive comparison: Literally everybody hated how Darth Maul was beaten. The backlash was so loud and sustained for years that he was resurrected in the EU and being that Clone Wars is the only surviving SW extended media before the big buyout - he survival is canon.

Nobody, absolutely nobody ever, speculated how much training Maul had to lose so stupidly. But here we are entertaining Kylo's shortcomings while dreaming up explanations for Rey's abilities.

Me thinks it would be easier to say she was an OP character.



'Force weakened'? What is that, what are you saying here?



Conjecture, conjecture, speculation, theories, etc.



This is hilariously absurd spin control.



And Anakin was a full blown slave. Still wasn't as OP as Rey in any movie.



This is possible. But to speculate this is to accept that she is indeed a Mary Sue; we're just adding 'by design'. And I'm open to that, it's just the wacky attempts at rejecting premise one.



I have already entertained these traits.

He should not lose clean to somebody who picked up a lightsaber that same day.



Whoa whoa, hold the presses.

Wasn't anybody talking about bad or good. This is why I prefaced all of that text with how much I like Rey, action girls in general, and don't even mind Mary Sue type characters. I am not slamming Rey or the movie.

Technically speaking, with the established 'rules' of the SW universe, with past and current characters to compare to, with the established definition of Mary Sue characters - I am saying objectively that Rey is a Mary Sue. Just like Neo. Just like Batman. Just like Alice from the RE movies. This is not 'bad'. It is what it is.

Yeah I was just making general statements about some stuff I've seen in this thread, I don't really care about what you think about Star Wars.

[Kalyx triaD]

We're probably going to get a lengthy exposition when Luke tells Rey where she came from. Wasn't one of the promos for the movies Luke telling somebody about his family's ability in the force?

That was classic Abrams misdirection. It left us to speculate on any of the three new heroes. Lots of promotional material showed Finn with a lightsaber. The swerve was clearly in Rey's favor.

No way in hell would that line be a tease for the next movie. No way.

[Kalyx triaD]

Yeah I was just making general statements about some stuff I've seen in this thread, I don't really care about what you think about Star Wars.

Here we go with the 'Hey guys I'm here to say I don't really care, I care only enough to say so'. You're above this yadda yadda whatever.

My feelings on this is no better than anyone elses. I never asserted so. My only opinions were stated early on. On the idea of Mary Sue, I am not giving opinions.

I value everybody's contributions just so we're clear.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It could be both. We'll see.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Yeah I was just making general statements about some stuff I've seen in this thread, I don't really care about what you think about Star Wars.

I was responding to Triad not you. So, why would I care?