Star Wars - SPOILERS INSIDE

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I am actually a life long star wars fan I'm just not going to get into a silly debate about weird nitpicky things.

I choose to bask in its glory and marvel at what I just saw, and not get into a argument about a bunch of nonsense.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

What is OP? On point? We don't see enough of Anakin as a kid to judge how "forcey" he was as a kid.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

You bunch of nerds.

[Kalyx triaD]

What is OP? On point? We don't see enough of Anakin as a kid to judge how "forcey" he was as a kid.

Borrowing a fighting game term. OP = Over-Powered. Just a shorthand for my main point.

[Wishbone]

What is OP? On point? We don't see enough of Anakin as a kid to judge how "forcey" he was as a kid.

OP = Overpowered

I've also seen it used to say "original poster" when replying to threads/comments on occasion.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I will agree she is OP but will wait to see if she is OP for a reason. Like Anakin was. Han talked about balance in the force in his "It's all real" speech. Being able to ride a podracer at 10 when even adult humans couldn't would be considered Overpowered. Being able to build the greatest service droid in the galaxy with 4 million languages is also an overpowered ability.

Operas are often obvious about the story. So, even though it is obvious I feel like she'll be Luke's daughter.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I was responding to Triad not you. So, why would I care?

So was I :p

[Kalyx triaD]

I will agree she is OP-

A round for all the men at the table, we are officially done here. Let's drink.

This was the single point I was getting across this whole time. For all we know she's in fact the one who brings balance to the Force. Who knows. I have no problem speculating with you on this. I just found arguments against her obvious infallibility disingenuous. I did not mean to be dismissive or anything, I was only ever arguing the technical narrative of her character, not what that means in the fiction.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Brooklyn Lager for all*

[wwe2222]

While yes she is overpowered, i don't really see the criticisms not this. Characters like Batman and Superman are too, yet are still popular among fans and critics. Either the character works for you or doesn't.

[Ruien]

I 100% agree Kylo should have destroyed both Finn and Rey with the lightsaber. I thought Finn lasted as long as he did was laughable. It seemed Kylo was at least going easy on Rey but Finn should have been crushed in a minute.

[wwe2222]

I don't think Ren is as advanced as you guys think.

Luke lasts pretty long against Vader in their first fight and eBay saber training does he really have compared to Vader. Vader resorts to cheating and hurling everything but the kitchen sink at him.

Now Vader could've been taking it easy as not to kill Luke but Luke gets some solid shots at him.

[Simple Fan]

I will say either Finn or Ren should have lost an arm or a leg.

[wwe2222]

Finn is pretty badly hurt. How many characters do we need to see lose a hand?

[Wishbone]

Honestly I think Fin being able to last so long against Kylo was meant to show how attached he was to Rey. Like he had an adrenaline thing going on and was literally fighting for the lives of his best friend and himself, and he still got f'ed up pretty badly afterward. Also Kylo was clearly not meant to be taken seriously as a threat. I think it was stupid of them to make him so whiny and turn him into such a little bitch, but he definitely was meant to be that way so it makes sense that he got his ass handed to him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think his petulance was a necessary evil. He reminded me of Joaquin Phoenix's performance in Gladiator. Dangerous not because he's formidable at this point, but unpredictable, immature and dastardly.

[wwe2222]

I think his petulance was a necessary evil. He reminded me of Joaquin Phoenix's performance in Gladiator. Dangerous not because he's formidable at this point, but unpredictable, immature and dastardly.

Yes, exactly. He also feels entitled. We will continue to see his training and his powers evolve.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And Rey is clearly just far more badass and better at the force than he is. And it's great because it will make him fucking crazy and he will write about it in his journal, while combing his lustrous locks of hair.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I 100% agree Kylo should have destroyed both Finn and Rey with the lightsaber. I thought Finn lasted as long as he did was laughable. It seemed Kylo was at least going easy on Rey but Finn should have been crushed in a minute.

These stormtroopers seem to have some form of melee training, plus Kylo was injured, plus he was mocking Finn and playing with him, and then he eventually did fuck him up. Seems fine to me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Us being wrestling fans makes the talks about who should have beaten who in the battles hilarious.

[wwe2222]

TFA Stormtroopers were much more of a threat than in the original movies as far as their ground combat

[Fignuts]

Snoke says "There's been an awakening" all ominous and stuff. He's not talking about the light side in general, as luke is still out there. I took it to mean there is a person out there awakening their abilities in the force that has incredible potential and that person is Rey.

That and Kylo's battered body and psyche was enough to make rey's victory believable for me.

If this was a standalone film you could have a case for calling her overpiwered, but we know this is just the first chapter and we've got a long way to go. Bitch's bloodstream could be made of midichlorians for all we know.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah I don't think it'll be overlooked how this girl is just a crazy badass off the get go.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In fact, I found that a welcome change in direction. We've already see the long hard grind to even really be able to do anything force related. If she's the super powerful badass motherfucker, I like the idea that she's some kind of force savant.

And this would obviously drive Kylo mad because he'd be trying so hard to be a conquerer but this girl is coming in and stealing his thunder. It's a new wrinkle and I like it.

[Kalyx triaD]

While yes she is overpowered, i don't really see the criticisms not this. Characters like Batman and Superman are too, yet are still popular among fans and critics. Either the character works for you or doesn't.

Nobody at all is talking about if it works or not. Premise one was recognizing that she was OP. That is it.

[Fignuts]

She's only overpowered if there is never an explanation as to why she's so powerful. It's a story about space wizards. They have carte blanche to make anyone as powerful as they want, even if tje reason is that she's a random prodigy. It would be consistant with the rest of the saga as there have never been any specifically clear rules on how the force does or doesn't work.

I honestly don't even see the point in debating this. Like I said, we've only seen the first part of the story, and it was meant as a setup. If further films don't deliver a satisfying answer to Rey's power , then you can say she's ovwrpowered, but right now its too early, and there are too many delibrately unanswered questions to make that call.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I honestly don't even see the point in debating this.

yep. that's about right.

[Kalyx triaD]

There was no debate. No variation of viewpoints. I was explaining how Rey is a Mary Sue.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

There was no debate. No variation of viewpoints. I was explaining how Rey is a Mary Sue.

Doesn't the three male writers disqualify that? A Mary Sue puts the super-perfect version of herself into the story.

[Kalyx triaD]

Mary Sue is used today as any infallible or otherwise 'perfect' characters. This is why I mentioned author appeals so much. Alice in the RE movies is regarded as a Mary Sue despite not being written by a woman. People have accused Gail Simone as making Nightwing her Gary Stu, even as she was very open about how much she connected with Barbara Gordon.

It's no longer contingent on the writer inserting his or herself.

[The Rogerer]

While yes she is overpowered, i don't really see the criticisms not this. Characters like Batman and Superman are too, yet are still popular among fans and critics. Either the character works for you or doesn't.Superman is a character who has struggled for relevance because of his lack of vulnerability at times. He is also intentionally designed to be amazingly exceptional because of magical powers.

Batman, again, is a wealthy man who dedicated his life to training himself.

Rey is playing the role of the young hero from obscurity, but she knows everything and achieves everything. Part of this is lazy writing because the audience already knows so much, why bother having the protagonist have to learn it too? They also want to compensate for a lack of capable women in past Star Wars stuff so they go out of their way to make her beyond capable.

It's not 'too early' to address anything. The film is out. Writing some other detail two years from now doesn't change what this film is.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

just 514 days. :D

[Tom Guycott]

Here's a thought: what if the intention of her being so intuitive and "OP" with no prior training is to set *her* up as the eventual surprise big bad? She seems like she'd be easily seduceable with becoming uber powerful very quickly and intending to help people, but becoming cocky and petty... coming from nothing but scrounging a living to, almost overnight, being a bigger badass than (her possible granddad) Vader is a possible road to follow, if not flirt with for two more movies.

I know she is set up for the trilogy hero role, but she might swerve everyone and go all Sephiroth. She seems the perfect candidate for eventual arrogance and someone having to put her down. And *then* the argument would shift from her being "OP", to "why did the girl have to die?" or somesuch. Or maybe she even is initially blind to her descent, like Luke seemed to be, and also eventually loses a limb. Maybe a leg, though. Make it different.

[Kalyx triaD]

It is very unlikely they would do something that bold with their only female hero. Just like John Cena, there's some meta-marketing here with Rey being the female face of Star Wars. She'll be tantamount to a Disney Princess, and no way in hell will they run blind into a minefield making her a villain down the line.

[wwe2222]

I guess I just don't see the big deal in being a Mary Sue or whatever. Just like I don't care if the movie passes the Bechdel test. Daisy Ridley was engaging and great in her role. I think it fits the story perfectly fine. You guys can keep debating this non issue.

Im the meantime I'm going to see the movie again and enjoy it just like I did the first time.

I'm all for debating points of the film but I don't care for debating invented terms like this devised solely to invent criticism in films. I'll leave that to you experts.

[Kalyx triaD]

There was no debate.

[Big Vic]

So Rey is Roman Reigns?

[Blonde Moment]

Here's a thought: what if the intention of her being so intuitive and "OP" with no prior training is to set *her* up as the eventual surprise big bad? She seems like she'd be easily seduceable with becoming uber powerful very quickly and intending to help people, but becoming cocky and petty... coming from nothing but scrounging a living to, almost overnight, being a bigger badass than (her possible granddad) Vader is a possible road to follow, if not flirt with for two more movies.

I know she is set up for the trilogy hero role, but she might swerve everyone and go all Sephiroth. She seems the perfect candidate for eventual arrogance and someone having to put her down. And *then* the argument would shift from her being "OP", to "why did the girl have to die?" or somesuch. Or maybe she even is initially blind to her descent, like Luke seemed to be, and also eventually loses a limb. Maybe a leg, though. Make it different.

I think she will be Kylo's redemption when all is said and done and both will start a New Jedi Academy. If this trilogy is to mirror the original in certain aspects than some bad things are bound to happen leaving it up to Kylo, Finn, Chewie ( if he makes it through 8 ) and Poe to save the day and Rey in Episode 9.

[Blonde Moment]

I do find it interesting that Lor San Tekka ended up on the same planet Rey was Abandoned.

[Big Vic]

since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?

[Blonde Moment]

since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?

Dear God no.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I guess I just don't see the big deal in being a Mary Sue or whatever. Just like I don't care if the movie passes the Bechdel test. Daisy Ridley was engaging and great in her role. I think it fits the story perfectly fine. You guys can keep debating this non issue.

Im the meantime I'm going to see the movie again and enjoy it just like I did the first time.

I'm all for debating points of the film but I don't care for debating invented terms like this devised solely to invent criticism in films. I'll leave that to you experts.

Marry Me.

[Simple Fan]

I don't know if it is but I kind of got the feeling that Kylo Ren might have known who Rey was. When he takes off his helmet in front of her its like he's waiting for her to recognize him and she doesn't. Like said I don't think she was mind wiped but just to young to really remember anyone in her real family. He might not know her at all but that's just the feeling I got from the scene.

[wwe2222]

I don't know if it is but I kind of got the feeling that Kylo Ren might have known who Rey was. When he takes off his helmet in front of her its like he's waiting for her to recognize him and she doesn't. Like said I don't think she was mind wiped but just to young to really remember anyone in her real family. He might not know her at all but that's just the feeling I got from the scene.

I dont think he knows her. He takes off the helmet after she makes some comment about him being a monster or something.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

same

[Simple Fan]

Yeah that might be its just a feeling I got from the scene but I could be totally wrong.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Usually in movies if you get the feeling, it's what they're going for. I think it's why he was so eager on training her.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

remember in Episode 6, how Luke immediately realizes Leia is his sister and then Leia goes "I always knew" when he tells her.

I dont know if he's going to "know" it flat out, but the knowlege of it is at the very least an intuition he has because of the force.

[wwe2222]

I think that was after he took the mask off and tried to read her mind though

[Reavant]

We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

yes we do... she thought they were myths.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

something something something Mary Sue OP

[Kalyx triaD]

Too bad they ruled out any shot of her in a space bikini.

[KIRA]

since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?

:nono:

[Reavant]

Who thinks they will actually do a love story with fin and ray?

[Simple Fan]

That seems like the way their going. I could see Fin being killed by Kylo Ren though to.

[Ermaximus]

So, if he is a goner, wouldn't having Lando come back to help avenge him make sense?

"Hey Ben you piece of shit, Chewie and I are here to make your ass pay. Then we're gonna drink some Colt .45 and piss on your grave you fucking emo little shit."

[Simple Fan]

If he's Lando's kid I guess it would. He could live and find his parents if they are still alive to have his own little story.

[Optimus Bone 69]

Never been that into Star Wars but enjoyed this only negative was that i watched episode 1,2 and 3 as a result

[Kalyx triaD]

If they kill Finn I will pull a Kylo on the nearest computer.

[Ruien]

Can't see them killing any of the 3 new babyfaces.

[Blonde Moment]

Can't see them killing any of the 3 new babyfaces.
At worst I see a double turn at the end of 8 followed by everything being"ok" by the end of 9. Maybe a Poe or Chewie death scene

[Reavant]

I wouldnt care at all, but I think it would become a HUGE thing if they had Fin and Ren end up hooking up. I mean like political/social thing. As a matter of fact I hope they do actually do it, but Im betting they chicken out.

[Kalyx triaD]

Look up Firefly. Flash. Etc.

Interracial love is old. Particularly in scifi.

[wwe2222]

Look up Firefly. Flash. Etc.

Interracial love is old. Particularly in scifi.

Star Trek both new and old

[Kalyx triaD]

Inter-species relationships aplenty in Star Trek.

So no, it's not even a concern that they'd chicken out. And in any case the FinnRey ship is all but confirmed with all the subtext in the second half of the movie. The only possible reason not to go for it is a) a KyloRey ship swerve (if they are not related), b) PoeRey pairing, and c) they keep her single to sell the 'empowered female hero' vibe, as romance would put her in a position of need from a man. As Rog observes, they seem to have gone out of their way to show she needs no kind of assistance let alone a dude's romantic validation (her oblivious to Finn's obvious interest is even played for laughs).

[Wishbone]

I wouldnt care at all, but I think it would become a HUGE thing if they had Fin and Ren end up hooking up. I mean like political/social thing. As a matter of fact I hope they do actually do it, but Im betting they chicken out.

Have you been living under a rock? Interracial relationships in film, or anywhere for that matter, haven't been "politically/socially HUGE" in decades. Especially in the sci-fi genre.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Can't see them killing any of the 3 new babyfaces.

I thought Poe Dameron was gonna die at Starkiller Base. He was the Biggs Darklighter.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Now that he is not Biggs anymore. I think Poe and Rey will be entering Bang City. Finn got friendzoned by the slight kiss to the forehead.

[Simple Fan]

He said Fin and Ren though, he's suggesting they be gay for politically/socially reasons or whatever.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Happy Happy Joy Joy!

[Tom Guycott]

I don't know if it is but I kind of got the feeling that Kylo Ren might have known who Rey was. When he takes off his helmet in front of her its like he's waiting for her to recognize him and she doesn't. Like said I don't think she was mind wiped but just to young to really remember anyone in her real family. He might not know her at all but that's just the feeling I got from the scene.

I dont think he knows her. He takes off the helmet after she makes some comment about him being a monster or something.

There is that, but he also seemed not only completely unsurpised at her abilities, but how exponentially stronger they were becomming. It seemed a tad out of character for him to simply "slightly annoyed" with this instead of getting all bitchy and pissy and "WHY IS SHE STRONGER THAN ME!?!?" mother of all tempertantrums about things.

[Tom Guycott]

I wouldnt care at all, but I think it would become a HUGE thing if they had Fin and Ren end up hooking up. I mean like political/social thing. As a matter of fact I hope they do actually do it, but Im betting they chicken out.

Look up Firefly. Flash. Etc.

Interracial love is old. Particularly in scifi.

But that wasn't Star Wars. Remember the collective internet bricks shat about Finn being *gasp* a black stormtrooper? Him also becoming Othello has the potential to cause heads to a'splode, no matter how "progressive" we have gotten with our fantasy. I'd like it to not be a big deal, either, but again, this is Star Wars. EVERYTHING will be made a big deal of.

And Firefly is kinda unfair... any straight man with any sense would want to spend some adult time with Zoe no matter how racist you think you might be. Also, funny, considering how closed minded Wash was to the idea of an actual psychic, dismissing thwt as science fiction. ("We live in a spaceship, dear.") Not as progressive as you'd assume.

[Tom Guycott]

And for the trifecta moonsault posting I seem to be doing a lot of...

It is very unlikely they would do something that bold with their only female hero. Just like John Cena, there's some meta-marketing here with Rey being the female face of Star Wars. She'll be tantamount to a Disney Princess, and no way in hell will they run blind into a minefield making her a villain down the line.

I know. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't forgo all the money that stands to be made for somepotentially epically un-telegraphed storytelling. Since this is all speculation anyway, I can also see Chewie snapping and becoming a badass <s>submis</s> bounty hunter (a Wookie Punisher? The PunKashyyk?) and General I-don't-have-boob-armor is actually a deep, deep cover Rebel spy in disguise who has to display being a hardass to not blow her cover. Like Snape. Or Book.

[Wishbone]

But that wasn't Star Wars. Remember the collective internet bricks shat about Finn being *gasp* a black stormtrooper? Him also becoming Othello has the potential to cause heads to a'splode, no matter how "progressive" we have gotten with our fantasy. I'd like it to not be a big deal, either, but again, this is Star Wars. EVERYTHING will be made a big deal of.

And Firefly is kinda unfair... any straight man with any sense would want to spend some adult time with Zoe no matter how racist you think you might be. Also, funny, considering how closed minded Wash was to the idea of an actual psychic, dismissing thwt as science fiction. ("We live in a spaceship, dear.") Not as progressive as you'd assume.

The only people who complained about Finn being a black stormtrooper were the internet basement-dwellers. The vast majority of people didn't give two shits. Remember how the internet exploded when Johnny Storm was made black? Yeah, not one person I knew IRL cared or even noticed. We all spend a lot of time in a forum, but we often forget that the majority of people do not. Hell, most of the people watching Star Wars are "casuals" these days, and "casuals" don't tend to have the polarizing opinions that "hardcore" fans do. Besides when has internet fanboy rage ever stopped something in Hollywood? I doubt Hollywood cares or even knows those whiners exist.

[wwe2222]

There is that, but he also seemed not only completely unsurpised at her abilities, but how exponentially stronger they were becomming. It seemed a tad out of character for him to simply "slightly annoyed" with this instead of getting all bitchy and pissy and "WHY IS SHE STRONGER THAN ME!?!?" mother of all tempertantrums about things.

Funny, You and I saw that scene much different. I think he was shocked to find out how strong she was. I dont think he saw that coming at all.

[The Rogerer]

I mean why did Han chase after a stormtrooper and run around a corner to find a hundred troops shooting at him, and then not get shot.

[The Rogerer]

Harrison Ford became older so that they could sell more merchandise.

[Kalyx triaD]

Don't think they thought that far ahead. Lucas said very often that merch flying off shelves shocked him.

[The Rogerer]

The '3P0 got a red arm to sell more merch' is one of the stupidest things I keep seeing. I actually really liked it as a non-sequiter joke but it turns out we're getting a comic book to explain why his arm is red, because for all the complaining about Lucas, it turns out people really like his MO.

[Big Vic]

Star Trek both new and oldI never saw Firefly or Flash but the story is usually "White guy and Black Girl" not "Black Guy and White Girl"

[The Rogerer]

Fair point

[wwe2222]

It's a $4 billion plus investment for Disney. They have every right to make as much money from it as they can. If people want to buy it, then they will sell it

[The Rogerer]

Affirmative. Now consuming...

[Tom Guycott]

The '3P0 got a red arm to sell more merch' is one of the stupidest things I keep seeing. I actually really liked it as a non-sequiter joke but it turns out we're getting a comic book to explain why his arm is red, because for all the complaining about Lucas, it turns out people really like his MO.

I'm more surprised about him not being a mishmash of various "new" parts by now. And the red arm joke, while funny, also made my aforementioned plot issue with BB-8 annoy me a little more.

[wwe2222]

I'm more surprised about him not being a mishmash of various "new" parts by now. And the red arm joke, while funny, also made my aforementioned plot issue with BB-8 annoy me a little more.

What is your plot issue with BB8?

[wwe2222]

What is your plot issue with BB8?

Do you mean painting BB8?
1. Why would Rey or Finn know to paint BB8?

2. It wasnt a concern of anyone's until Poe sent him on his way.

3. Where were they getting a can of paint on Jakku? There is no Home Depot.

4. They werent looking for BB8 specifically until they know he had the map.

5. This is like saying Luke and OB1 should've painted R2

[Big Vic]

Rey should have painted Fin

[Big Vic]

:shifty:

[Reavant]

Look up Firefly. Flash. Etc.

Interracial love is old. Particularly in scifi.

TV shows and not big budget blockbusters with massive crossover appeal also wm/bw

Have you been living under a rock? Interracial relationships in film, or anywhere for that matter, haven't been "politically/socially HUGE" in decades. Especially in the sci-fi genre.

Have YOU been living under a rock? That has always mattered and always will.

The only people who complained about Finn being a black stormtrooper were the internet basement-dwellers. The vast majority of people didn't give two shits. Remember how the internet exploded when Johnny Storm was made black? Yeah, not one person I knew IRL cared or even noticed. We all spend a lot of time in a forum, but we often forget that the majority of people do not. Hell, most of the people watching Star Wars are "casuals" these days, and "casuals" don't tend to have the polarizing opinions that "hardcore" fans do. Besides when has internet fanboy rage ever stopped something in Hollywood? I doubt Hollywood cares or even knows those whiners exist.

Those people "IRL" are the ones exploding the internet. They do it becuse they are anonymous and say their actual opinions without being looked at like a monster from their friends, family, coworkers etc. Dont be naive.

Hollywood is in america. Do not forget the history here. Putting a black man and white woman leads in a romantic relationship is still a huge deal here. That would hit to the soul of southern white america. Racism has not gone away. Look at the youtube comments on people who are interracial couples. Look at the hateful stuff said on peoples facebook pictures.

We are not talking about internet fanboys. We are talking about the population. When was the last time that america produced a balanced and truthful war movie? By that I mean showing all the awful things we do? Hollywood doesnt dare do it. Why? Because of outrage.... by mainly the same population described above.


Now its time to wake up wishbone you are going to be late for school.

[Reavant]

I am all for it by the way. 1 because I dont care and 2 because some people just like to watch the world burn

[Emperor Smeat]

Might be worth a laugh but the group that tried to get a big boycott for the film because of it being "SJW Propaganda" believes they managed to generate $4.2 million in lost revenue for it and considers it as a big success.

The film itself already made over $1.09 billion since its release for some comparison.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1163802

[Kalyx triaD]

Aside from Ms. MaRey Sue there is nothing throat stuffingly SJW or progressive about TFA.

[Simple Fan]

Nothing wrong with Rey either. Seriously don't understand all this Mary Sue talk. Feel like I'm not nerd enough for the term I guess.

[Kalyx triaD]

Go back and read my write-up. Explained the Mary Sue thing in full. In fact not so much the write up but the replies to others where I go in further detail.

There is no way not to understand it.

[McLegend]

Is talking about George Lucas and his comments better, worse, or the same as talking about "Mary Sue?"

[Simple Fan]

Better, I read somewhere he didn't really like it and would've done something totally different. Feel like JJ did a great job in bringing everything together.


https://www.yahoo.com/tech/george-lucas-explains-why-didn-t-star-wars-153745258.html

This is where I read it. Yeah I'd rather talk about George Lucas's opinion than I would worry about interracial couples or a woman being the lead in the movie.

[Lock Jaw]

My 2016 resolution is to never have to read the words "Mary Sue" ever again.

[McLegend]

I totally understand how George Lucas feels. I don't blame him at all. I love it that dude who made billions off of selling Star Wars probably wouldn't sell it again if he could do it all over. I believe he thinks that 1,2, and 3 are really good, and it kind of eats him alive that people hate them.

Also I bet his ideas for 7,8, and 9 are good ideas... However they probably wouldn't have worked if he was fully involved in the making of them.

[McLegend]

And yes saying you sold them to "white slavers" is not a good thing to say. I am aware of that.

[McLegend]

George Lucas probably watches the Phantom Menace once a month, and everyime he says to himself "Everyone is wrong, this is good. It's the beginning of the saga that I want to tell."

I really respect that about him. I'm probably just as crazy as he is for thinking that, but I really do respect that.

[Simple Fan]

Yeah I respect his opinion to, I mean he the reason for all of it. I think he may be having a little bit of regret about not being involved or even selling to Disney and I can get that. I personally feel that The Force Awakens did everything it needed for the franchise and got a whole new generation of fans interested in Star Wars. Something completely new might have done the trick as well but we will never know. I think making a movie for the fans was the right choice and don't really understand that bit of criticism from Lucas.

[Wishbone]

TV shows and not big budget blockbusters with massive crossover appeal also wm/bw



Have YOU been living under a rock? That has always mattered and always will.



Those people "IRL" are the ones exploding the internet. They do it becuse they are anonymous and say their actual opinions without being looked at like a monster from their friends, family, coworkers etc. Dont be naive.

Hollywood is in america. Do not forget the history here. Putting a black man and white woman leads in a romantic relationship is still a huge deal here. That would hit to the soul of southern white america. Racism has not gone away. Look at the youtube comments on people who are interracial couples. Look at the hateful stuff said on peoples facebook pictures.

We are not talking about internet fanboys. We are talking about the population. When was the last time that america produced a balanced and truthful war movie? By that I mean showing all the awful things we do? Hollywood doesnt dare do it. Why? Because of outrage.... by mainly the same population described above.


Now its time to wake up wishbone you are going to be late for school.

You really are hilarious. You should get up off your computer every now and then, dude. Maybe stop going to 4chan so much. I think you're starting to lose touch with reality. That or you really need to move out of whatever Southern trailer park you might be living in. Either way there's clearly a major disconnect between the world you live in and the world most normal people live in.

Oh and :rofl: at your school comment. I think you need to calm your tits, man. I'd expect that kind of idiocy from the Youtube comments section, but not this foru- nevermind, I actually totally should have expected that from this forum... Still, un-rustle them jimmies, brother.

[Kalyx triaD]

Is talking about George Lucas and his comments better, worse, or the same as talking about "Mary Sue?"

Immensely more entertaining.

I would love for him to publicize his treatment for this trilogy.

[Kalyx triaD]

More on Lucas:

I think he kinda stinks as a director and script writer, but he knows Star Wars. The best case would have been to adapt his own treatment for 7-8-9. I'm sure Disney is gonna do well, but we'll never really know how the story was going to continue. Also, certain EU elements he already signed off on had a higher chance of being filmed if he was still in charge.

He certainly wouldn't have made a soft-remake of A New Hope.

[McLegend]

Yeah I respect his opinion to, I mean he the reason for all of it. I think he may be having a little bit of regret about not being involved or even selling to Disney and I can get that. I personally feel that The Force Awakens did everything it needed for the franchise and got a whole new generation of fans interested in Star Wars. Something completely new might have done the trick as well but we will never know. I think making a movie for the fans was the right choice and don't really understand that bit of criticism from Lucas.

It's because he doesn't want to make or see that movie. He thinks the movie the movie they want is terrible, because it doesn't match his overall story. Telling his story is the only thing that matters to him.

[wwe2222]

His comments are all BS. he likes to make things different every movie? He used 2 Death Stars, wound up on tattooine in 5 movies, shoe horned in chewbacca and boba Fett into the prequels, somehow thought Anakin building 3po was a good idea.

Just because he created it doesnt give him a free pass to consitently make bad decisions.

The prequels weren't just had films. They were terrible from their core.

[McLegend]

More on Lucas:

I think he kinda stinks as a director and script writer, but he knows Star Wars. The best case would have been to adapt his own treatment for 7-8-9. I'm sure Disney is gonna do well, but we'll never really know how the story was going to continue. Also, certain EU elements he already signed off on had a higher chance of being filmed if he was still in charge.

He certainly wouldn't have made a soft-remake of A New Hope.

He does stink as a director and script writer. We have 2 horrible movies, and 1 "ok" movie to prove that.

George Lucas does haveas great ideas though. just having the idea for Star Wars is amazing in itself. The prequels too are even pa great idea, and it is really visioniary work to create this huge universe that he did. However at some point he lost the ability to be able to put his ideas on screen in a convincing fashion.

The Clone Wars animated series is a good example of George Lucas being on his game. Lot of those ideas on that show come from him, and he was able to successfully hand stuff off to the people on that show who could properly visualize it for him. If he could do that with his movies, and didn't have do be involved with every job and detail I bet episodes 1.2, & 3 would have been better.

[wwe2222]

More on Lucas:

I think he kinda stinks as a director and script writer, but he knows Star Wars. The best case would have been to adapt his own treatment for 7-8-9. I'm sure Disney is gonna do well, but we'll never really know how the story was going to continue. Also, certain EU elements he already signed off on had a higher chance of being filmed if he was still in charge.

He certainly wouldn't have made a soft-remake of A New Hope.

Who cares about filming the EU? Why would anyone want that filmed except the fan boys who wrote it?

[Kalyx triaD]

Who cares about filming the EU? Why would anyone want that filmed except the fan boys who wrote it?

Are you fucking insane?

There's shit from the EU that would have been balls out awesome if it were filmed. And fanboys? The main issue with TFA is Abrams is too much of a New Hope fanboy.

I can not believe what you're saying right now.

[wwe2222]

Ok fanboy. No wonder you didn't like the movie with your poor taste

[Simple Fan]

A New Hope got everyone that is a Star Wars fan interested in the franchise. The Force Awakens does that for a whole new generation. I wasn't born when a New Hope came out but my dad had the VHS( actually still have it, when I was 5 the trailor we were living in got taken in a flood and we were watching it as the water got up and its the only thing we took out of the trailor at the moment). I didn't think the prequals were bad but they did have bad moments. They were the first Star Wars films I seen in theaters and with The Force Awakens I walked out completley satisfied feeling like I had just seen a great movie. JJ using New Hope as a base for this film was probably the best thing that could have happened. It reminded old fans of the past while making the wonder about the future of the franchise.

[Tom Guycott]

Do you mean painting BB8?
1. Why would Rey or Finn know to paint BB8?

2. It wasnt a concern of anyone's until Poe sent him on his way.

3. Where were they getting a can of paint on Jakku? There is no Home Depot.

4. They werent looking for BB8 specifically until they know he had the map.

5. This is like saying Luke and OB1 should've painted R2

Yes.

Poe specifically described BB-8 as "one of a kind", and everyone that ended up looking for the macguffin specifically described it as an "orange BB unit"... it is not the same as the search for the plans in the original, as nobody knew R2 had them.

But for sake of argument, let us say everyone looking for the Death Star plans knew it was R2, and the Empire were specifically looking for a blue R2 unit... the Rebels could paint, or cover with grease, or some other shit to disguise the blue parts of Artoo. There were already other colored R2 units in the universe... at least red, black, or green. C3PO's joke about the one red arm making him "unrecognizable" was only funny because it was just one arm. If the whole damn gold was replaced with red, it wouldn't be so funny, as everyone would legit question it being C3P0 specifically and not just some random other protocol droid.

Rei/Ray/Wray caught the idea of people looking for BB from jump. The "I'll pay you..." way more than she was ever used to getting form the scrap she was collecting, then after saying "no", she gets jumped and chased and shot at. If she can master the force and (sort of) fly a Correlian ship with no previous attempts, I'm pretty certain she can put 2 and 2 together on the droid being a hot target. Cover it, hide it carry it, paint it, something. Instead, she just continues around with it like it is a completely inconspicuous thing. As for Finn, he was specifically told by Po that BB was unique (which is how HE knew what to look for). Same thing; hide/disguise the fucking droid.

This "there is no Home Depo" shit is invalid, because they can paint insignias and numbers all over X-Wings and Y-Wings and landspeeders and any other ship or vehicle, they can expend a bit of effort to obscure BB's orange, even if they covered the little fucker with mud.

If an army were trying to capture and/or kill me, and everyone knows I've got really long dreadlocks, guess who is finding a way to shave his head *immediately*? Or at least cover my head. I wouldn't just keep roaming around like normal. *They* knew he had the map. That's enough knowledge to be as careful as possible. Nope, we just wander around with this unique droid that everyone seems to be chasing like it's no big.

[Kalyx triaD]

Ok fanboy. No wonder you didn't like the movie with your poor taste

wtf

[wwe2222]

You are wrong. It wasn't an issue until Poe sends him on his way. After that show me a moment that they would've had time to fucking paint him.

[Kalyx triaD]

If there's anything I learned about the internet is you can make a simple statement and people will miss your point/misrepresent you. And then you can commit a fucking essay clarifying and elaborating it and people still will miss your point/misrepresent you.

[Kalyx triaD]

And the nerve calling people fanboys when he's deflecting even the most benign criticisms of this movie. That is next level shit.

[Simple Fan]

I don't really see the point in painting BB-8. If you paint him then you don't get figured out and you don't have a movie really. Don't know when she would have time to paint him either.

[wwe2222]

I don't really see the point in painting BB-8. If you paint him then you don't get figured out and you don't have a movie really. Don't know when she would have time to paint him either.

The point is yes it would've been great to paint him but there never a moment to even do that

[Simple Fan]

I don't remember seeing any other BB units in the movie either but I might have missed it if there was. Might have been funny for the First Order to have a line up of BB units and BB-8 was painted or something but other than that I really don't see painting it being a priority.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If there's anything I learned about the internet is you can make a simple statement and people will miss your point/misrepresent you. And then you can commit a fucking essay clarifying and elaborating it and people still will miss your point/misrepresent you.

Listen man. You're really annoying. I don't mind having a discussion with anyone about anything, but you talk like an asshole with no social skills, so people generally just don't want to deal with you. There's nothing necessarily wrong with any of your theories, but the way you address everything is pretty much the worst.

You're eloquent enough, and you have passion for the subject matter and that is awesome, but dial down your tone a notch or two and this thread would be great.

[Kalyx triaD]

Nope.

TPWW has taught me we are all package deals. Thanks for recognizing my better traits, and I do not mean to be an asshole, but I'm not 'toning down', sorry.

[Kalyx triaD]

Do as I do and just argue the points. Plenty of you guys have eccentricities that annoy me, but you can trust that I will stay on point and accept you all as you are.

I love you all.

[wwe2222]

I just don't think the EU is a standard to judge anything nor not sure why you would want a bunch of stories filmed that you already know what happens. That worked out terribly for the prequels because it takes the drama out of most situations.

In addition I think they are poor stories. To each their own. Happy New Year

[Kalyx triaD]

I just don't think the EU is a standard to judge anything nor not sure why you would want a bunch of stories filmed that you already know what happens. That worked out terribly for the prequels because it takes the drama out of most situations.

What?

The prequel movies had very little to do with what the EU had out at the time. In fact the prequels introduced EU premises rather than the other way around.

There is a possibility you do not understand what we mean when we mention the EU.

[wwe2222]

I'm not saying they did.

[wwe2222]

I understand perfectly fine what EU is

[Simple Fan]

He wasn't saying that the EU had anything to do with the prequels he was just pointing out that people knew the outcome of episodes 1,2,&3 so it took something away from the films. He was saying if you just remake a EU story some people will know it and it would take away from the film.

[wwe2222]

Thank you for putting it better than me

[Kalyx triaD]

I think asserting that we 'knew' what was going to happen in the prequels because we knew the set-up for A New Hope is comical.

Nobody during any of the pre-release discussions of any of those movies 'knew' what was going to happen. What the fuck?

Yeah there's gonna be Clone Wars, and Obi will fight Vader, and Padme is going to have twins. You consider these spoilers? Are you against the concept of prequels in general?

"No need to make X-Men First Class we know how things will end up." Really?

[Simple Fan]

No but you knew the end game. You knew that young Skywalker would become Darth Vader and have a set of twins. It was cool to see how it all went down and I enjoyed them but there was that feeling of I know how this will end.

[Kalyx triaD]

No but you knew the end game.

And what I'm saying is entertaining this kind of criticism is literally the rejection of the very concept of prequel stories. Of course we know the endgame, the point is how did we get there.

Hell, you just murdered nearly half of Arrow's story telling. I mean we know the endgame; he gets off the island and puts on a suit. So why bother, right?

That is what you're saying right now.

[Kalyx triaD]

Actually Arrow's a bad example, since they use their flashbacks in a 'concurrent revelation' sort of way.

A better example would be again X-Men First Class. Or Star Trek Enterprise. Gotham. Smallville. That Underworld prequel. So on and so forth. Are you against prequel stories?

Also, the Star Wars prequel trilogy had WAY more problems than us knowing Anakin grows up to be a dick.

[wwe2222]

In general no, adapting stories ready written is fine but there has been a whole set of 3 movies that do that. I'd much rather see new characters like we got. I've also stated several times I don't find the EU characters that interesting.

You may want to see them. I have no interest. Most of it in my opinion is just crap. Enjoy it all you want

[Simple Fan]

I'm not against them but was just agreeing that knowing the end game does take away from some of the drama. I don't connect them with the likes of Arrow, Smallville, Gotham and things like that because those are their own universe separate from what made them popular to begin with. The Star Wars prequals are directly connected to episodes 6,7,&8 unlike any episode of a comic book TV show. I'm not bashing the prequals as I said I enjoyed them and it was cool to see how everything went down.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Is there really a discussion here about why a droid wasn't painted to disguise it in a movie?

Some people just really don't enjoy life do they?

[Blonde Moment]

I think asserting that we 'knew' what was going to happen in the prequels because we knew the set-up for A New Hope is comical.

Nobody during any of the pre-release discussions of any of those movies 'knew' what was going to happen. What the fuck?

Yeah there's gonna be Clone Wars, and Obi will fight Vader, and Padme is going to have twins. You consider these spoilers? Are you against the concept of prequels in general?

"No need to make X-Men First Class we know how things will end up." Really?

Yes REALLY.
I like 1-3,although I loath to admit it, but we knew that several things had to happen to get us to A New Hope and to some extent that took away from the impact of the films. Adapting the EU works to film works the same way. Yes the movies would be good but the journey we take would be different because we literally know how it ends.

[Simple Fan]

To get back on topic of the movie I know Vader's lightsaber feel down to the same place the Emperor did but do you think they're is any chance of it making a n appearance? I could see Ren wanting to find it since he traets the helmet as a piece of worship.

[wwe2222]

To get back on topic of the movie I know Vader's lightsaber feel down to the same place the Emperor did but do you think they're is any chance of it making a n appearance? I could see Ren wanting to find it since he traets the helmet as a piece of worship.

It's possible. I doubt it and wouldn't care for it because that would be a little tough to explain but you never know

[Lock Jaw]

Kalyx, please list your top five Expanded Universe moments/characters you would have liked to see done in film. Please back up each choice with an essay explaining why.

[Kalyx triaD]

Kalyx, please list your top five Expanded Universe moments/characters you would have liked to see done in film. Please back up each choice with an essay explaining why.

Fo real? I would. Perhaps make a new thread over it.

[Simple Fan]

It's possible. I doubt it and wouldn't care for it because that would be a little tough to explain but you never know

Yeah, the more I think about it the less it seems possible or even needed. Ren already has a bad ass lightsaber and Vaders wouldnt really wouldnt have anything to do unless it gave Kylo Ren a vison like Rey. I could see that as Ren touches it and gets a vison of what he needs to do to become a great Sith lord like his Grandfather. Really feel like Episode 8 will be more centered around Kylo Ren becoming Sith unless the Sith is completly dead.

[Simple Fan]

Fo real? I would. Perhaps make a new thread over it.

I've never read any of the EU, my brother has some of the books but I've never read them. Id be down for a thread of that nature though.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

People SHOULD have a problem with there being a black stormtrooper but not for the reasons stated. They are probably ALL black guys. The racist Empire makes all of the disposable troopers black. It's Tuskanee all over again.

[Kalyx triaD]

Not just books, either. Games, comics, and some cartoons really added to pre-Disney Star Wars in what may be the greatest fictional multimedia world building ever.

There are stuff I wish would have been adapted for screen, or otherwise got more spotlight. Putting up a thread later. EU retrospective.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I've never read any of the EU, my brother has some of the books but I've never read them. Id be down for a thread of that nature though.

It's not canon anymore. It was marketed and sold as canon though.

Peg Bundy: Thank Disney Kids!

Kids: Thanks Disney!

[Lock Jaw]

Currently reading through the EU for the first time... So maybe I shouldn't be asking for "spoilers"...

On the second book of "the Callista Trilogy". First one was really bad. Prob the worst of the SW books I have read this far....

[Lock Jaw]

I mean I already know of certain deaths and heel turns... But still would like to keep as many "surprises" as I can....

[Fignuts]

This is fucking ridiculous.

There are lots of stories, from movies to books to games where you know the end game. The ending isn't what it's about. The prequels specifically are tne tragic downfall of ankakin skywalker. The fact that you know he becomes vader just adds to tne tragedy, as you see it slowly happening.

[Kalyx triaD]

I missed this reply, sorry.

Yes REALLY.
I like 1-3,although I loath to admit it, but we knew that several things had to happen to get us to A New Hope and to some extent that took away from the impact of the films.

What would you have Lucas do?

Not have the prequels end setting up the Deathstar trilogy? What are you asking for? This is why I wondered if you guys actually had an issue with prequel stories as a concept.

Ridley Scott went out of his way to keep Prometheus from ending on a note that leads to Alien. It was one of the biggest criticisms on the movie. Ridley and Fox's response? The Prometheus sequel is now called Alien, with a greater effort to bridge the two eras.

Prequels are expected to set up what they proceed, with the point being that we explore the hows and whys. If your issue with a prequel is its unavoidable goal, I dunno what to tell you.

They're talking about doing a TV series based on Krypton. But why? We know it blows up.

Adapting the EU works to film works the same way.

Let me clarify what I mean by adapting story and character elements of the EU for film (I was gonna save this for the thread but I suppose I can say so here).

I do not mean adapting the stories line for line in a Watchmen kind of way. No direct adaptations. I'm one of the few guys on here documented to not take much issue with loose adaptations. I really don't mind so long as the spirit and theme of the source material is respected. That is what I mean by that. I should have been more clear before.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I think showing the aliens who designed and built the death star was a little bit overkill in the prequels. We don't need to know if Anakin kills Dooku in Episode 2 there is no Death Star. The ending scenes of Revenge of the Sith are the best of the prequels. Yoda, Ben, Vader with Tarkin and Luke with Owen and Beru. The best music from A New Hope when Luke looks into the Two moons to end was perfect.

It's like when Neo goes into the room with the George Carlin lookalike and finds out everything about the Matrix. There's a fine line of what information you give and what you shouldn't that you only find once you cross it.

[Kalyx triaD]

It's totally fine talking about the follow-thru, and I agree with you on those points, but I'm just talking about prequels as a concept.

There's times where it's heavy handed but overall we have to end up in a way that the prequels stand on their own while heading into the next story.

[wwe2222]

This is fucking ridiculous.

There are lots of stories, from movies to books to games where you know the end game. The ending isn't what it's about. The prequels specifically are tne tragic downfall of ankakin skywalker. The fact that you know he becomes vader just adds to tne tragedy, as you see it slowly happening.

And we've ready say through 3 movies of building to a known ending. I personally rather know nothing that is happening. I don't see any value in adapting the fan creates EU.

[wwe2222]

The prequels were just a mess. I think we can all agree on that

[Kalyx triaD]

You're a weird person. I don't say so to attack, I'm genuinely perplexed by you.

[wwe2222]

Why is it weird I think the prequels are shit and I prefer a new story as opposed to the EU? I think you are weird for wanting the uninteresting stories you've already read

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Some of the EU is shit. The Papatine Clone stuff just feels like bad sci fi. A retelling of certain aspects of other material wouldn't be bad.

[Kalyx triaD]

Why is it weird I think the prequels are shit and I prefer a new story as opposed to the EU? I think you are weird for wanting the uninteresting stories you've already read

This 'Kalyx wants bad stories' dismissal thing is already old, bro. Seriously.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I figured Kylo Ren was going to be a Conor Jax like character from Crimson Empire.

[Simple Fan]

Maybe these Star Wars Stories will have elements of some of the EU stuff. I'm interested to see were these stories go.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

30 years of nothing happening is the worst part of the movies.

[wwe2222]

Are you talking 30 years between Rots and ANH or Jedi and TFA?

[wwe2222]

This 'Kalyx wants bad stories' dismissal thing is already old, bro. Seriously.

OK bro. You are the one hung up on EU and it was you who called me weird

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Are you talking 30 years between Rots and ANH or Jedi and TFA?

Jedi and TFA.

[wwe2222]

Jedi and TFA.

Why do you say nothing has happened?

[Kalyx triaD]

OK bro. You are the one hung up on EU and it was you who called me weird

Even pretending I am 'hung up' on EU, you're still the one who can't seem to make a point with trying to dismiss me in some way. It's not a good look. Stay on point.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Cause Leia isn't a Jedi. Seems dumb Luke didn't train her. She's just senses stuff. Why isn't she a badass?

[wwe2222]

I'm not dismissing you. I am stating I personally don't want the EU recognized.

[wwe2222]

Cause Leia isn't a Jedi. Seems dumb Luke didn't train her. She's just senses stuff. Why isn't she a badass?

Because she settled down and had a family and then her family detroyed itself. ren is 29 so he wasn't conceived long after Endor (from what I've read)

[Simple Fan]

Yeah I'd say it pretty hard to become a Jedi when your raising the child that will kill your husband. Does seem like a lot of nothing happened between ROTJ and TFA though but we could get more filler as the trilogy plays out.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Dumb to have a family when Vader is in your bloodline tbh.

[wwe2222]

I mean if Luke was too old in Empire to start his training, I dont imagine years later was good for Leia to start.

The Empire didn't just end with the second Death Star exploloding. There had to be a resolution to that. Then you have to build a new republic. Luke attempts to restart the Jedi. The first order grows in power. The Resistance Forms.

We have yet to really hear about anything else.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Yeah but they said Anakin was too old. It's just as the Emperor said. Rules/lies so they can maintain their power. Too old not to be indoctrinated. Luke was deflecting blasters blindfolded by his first lesson (which is one of the first thing 'younglings' learn as seen in Episode 2.)

[Simple Fan]

Dumb to have a family when Vader is in your bloodline tbh.

Ben was probably a mistake.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Stupid Ewok condoms.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

My biggest gripe with the Star Wars universe is that Han Solo didn't even attempt to dye his hair or change his fashion style when Jabba was after him.

[wwe2222]

My biggest gripe with the Star Wars universe is that Han Solo didn't even attempt to dye his hair or change his fashion style when Jabba was after him.

I dunno, I think he was on to something disguising himself as a carbonite wall picture

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Ben was probably a mistake.

Why name him Ben anyways? He was Luke's friend/master. They barely knew him.

[wwe2222]

You guys.

[Lock Jaw]

Why name him Ben anyways? He was Luke's friend/master. They barely knew him.

Because it is a better name than Bail....

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Does the Dagobah System become common knowledge in the 30 years after Jedi? Do tourists get to have a bed and breakfast at Yoda's old house.

Yaddle: Own this establishment I do.

[Fignuts]

And we've ready say through 3 movies of building to a known ending. I personally rather know nothing that is happening. I don't see any value in adapting the fan creates EU.

Why is it weird I think the prequels are shit and I prefer a new story as opposed to the EU? I think you are weird for wanting the uninteresting stories you've already read

Not disagreeing with anyone on this. If you have a preference toward completely new material, that's fine. But saying prequels are inherently flawed is just wrong. It's just another form of storytelling.

[wwe2222]

Not disagreeing with anyone on this. If you have a preference toward completely new material, that's fine. But saying prequels are inherently flawed is just wrong. It's just another form of storytelling.

i already stated in general I don't have an issue with prequel story telling but I prefer to see new stories as we just had a trilogy of prequel story telling

[Fignuts]

Also, as someone who had read all the EU stuff outside of the kid series books, and played all the games, I can say that the majority of it ranges from decent to terrible. Like STD said, a lot of it just comes off as bad sci fi.

Only ones I'd really like to see adapted are Shadows of the Empire and maybe the Thrawn trilogy.

Even then, I would still prefer new content over adaptations.

[wwe2222]

Also, as someone who had read all the EU stuff outside of the kid series books, and played all the games, I can say that the majority of it ranges from decent to terrible. Like STD said, a lot of it just comes off as bad sci fi.

Only ones I'd really like to see adapted are Shadows of the Empire and maybe the Thrawn trilogy.

Even then, I would still prefer new content over adaptations.

Funny enough TFA was titled Shadow of the Empire in pre production.

[Fignuts]

i already stated in general I don't have an issue with prequel story telling but I prefer to see new stories as we just had a trilogy of prequel story telling

You and several others specifically said that knowing what happens later on takes the drama out of the story. This is not true . It can actually add quite a bit to the drama if done right. Especially with tragic figures like Vader. Obviously a lot could have been done better with the Star Wars prequels.

[wwe2222]

You and several others specifically said that knowing what happens later on takes the drama out of the story. This is not true . It can actually add quite a bit to the drama if done right. Especially with tragic figures like Vader. Obviously a lot could have been done better with the Star Wars prequels.

You aren't comprehending. I agree it can be done right occasionally for a good story. Mostly I think it just becomes well it didn't happen like I thought it would, or that scene was a lot different in my head.

I have no interest in seeing the EU stories adapted. I, me, as an individual, want to see new stories.

[Fignuts]

I just don't think the EU is a standard to judge anything nor not sure why you would want a bunch of stories filmed that you already know what happens. That worked out terribly for the prequels because it takes the drama out of most situations.

In addition I think they are poor stories. To each their own. Happy New Year

He wasn't saying that the EU had anything to do with the prequels he was just pointing out that people knew the outcome of episodes 1,2,&3 so it took something away from the films. He was saying if you just remake a EU story some people will know it and it would take away from the film.

Yes REALLY.
I like 1-3,although I loath to admit it, but we knew that several things had to happen to get us to A New Hope and to some extent that took away from the impact of the films. Adapting the EU works to film works the same way. Yes the movies would be good but the journey we take would be different because we literally know how it ends.

My comprehension is fine. I think your memory is the problem. You, simple fan, and fastway, all specifically state up there that the nature of prequels hurts the film. How can that be interpretted any other way?

[Fignuts]

My biggest gripe with the Star Wars universe is that Han Solo didn't even attempt to dye his hair or change his fashion style when Jabba was after him.

Should have put on a little dress and fuck me boots to disguise himself as a space hooker.

[Tom Guycott]

My biggest gripe with the Star Wars universe is that Han Solo didn't even attempt to dye his hair or change his fashion style when Jabba was after him.

See your point, what with the trying to be funny about my problem with BB-8, but in Han's case, he was intending on paying Jabba. There was enough exposition to Chewbacca between Old Ben's proposition and getting cornered by Greedo to clarify that he was planning on taking the pay from the Alderaan trip to give at least some of that to Jabba. (Without the re-added stuff in the hangar with the overdubbed and piss-poor CG of Jabba and repeating the exact same conversation he JUST had with a bounty hunter that HE SHOT FIRST precisely because the scene was cut to begin with... ugh, I have so many gripes with the SE version) He wasn't so much hiding as he was scheeming/finagling/buying time. Getting caught up in intergalactic espionage, helping blow up the death star, becoming a Rebel "general", nearly freezing to death rescuing Luke, and getting is penis wet by dipping it in the Organa pool wasn't part of the original "pay Jabba off" plan. Kinda slipped his mind in all that exitement.... during which time he gets the bounty on his head that Greedo alluded to in the first place.

[Simple Fan]

Why name him Ben anyways? He was Luke's friend/master. They barely knew him.

Leia also never calls him Ben as she knew his real nam.

[Kalyx triaD]

Obi-Wan's distraction helped them get away from Vader. Luke tells them about old Ben. In gratitude they name their kid Ben. Best case scenario. Or maybe they just like Ben and it was coincidence.

[Simple Fan]

To be fair Ben is a better name than Obi and if you were going to name your child after him Ben would be the better choice.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

See your point, what with the trying to be funny about my problem with BB-8, but in Han's case, he was intending on paying Jabba. There was enough exposition to Chewbacca between Old Ben's proposition and getting cornered by Greedo to clarify that he was planning on taking the pay from the Alderaan trip to give at least some of that to Jabba. (Without the re-added stuff in the hangar with the overdubbed and piss-poor CG of Jabba and repeating the exact same conversation he JUST had with a bounty hunter that HE SHOT FIRST precisely because the scene was cut to begin with... ugh, I have so many gripes with the SE version) He wasn't so much hiding as he was scheeming/finagling/buying time. Getting caught up in intergalactic espionage, helping blow up the death star, becoming a Rebel "general", nearly freezing to death rescuing Luke, and getting is penis wet by dipping it in the Organa pool wasn't part of the original "pay Jabba off" plan. Kinda slipped his mind in all that exitement.... during which time he gets the bounty on his head that Greedo alluded to in the first place.

Relax, I was just insinuating that you're probably a massive blurt if a droid not being painted is a hinderence on your movie experience.

[Blonde Moment]

My comprehension is fine. I think your memory is the problem. You, simple fan, and fastway, all specifically state up there that the nature of prequels hurts the film. How can that be interpretted any other way?

Imo opinion it does. It doesn't make them bad films but for me knowing the end result takes away from the overall enjoyment of the films. O feel the same way about remakes, for me to truely enjoy one it has to bring something new to the table otherwise it's just meh.

Your opinion is different and that is fine.

[Nark Order]

I kind of get where Lucas is coming from. Would be mad frustrating for Disney to be like "No, we don't want you involved and don't want any of your ideas," only to have them essentially make a beat for beat reprise of 'A New Hope."

[Blonde Moment]

Given Disney's track record of running a franchise into the ground over the past 30 years this really should have come as no surprise to him

[wwe2222]

Given Disney's track record of running a franchise into the ground over the past 30 years this really should have come as no surprise to him

I'm asking out of honesty, what franchises have they run into the ground?

[Wishbone]

Given Disney's track record of running a franchise into the ground over the past 30 years this really should have come as no surprise to him

What franchises have Disney run into the ground in the last 30 years? I honestly can't think of any. I mean they've dropped the ball and not done as much as they could with certain franchises (*cough* Gargoyles *cough*), but nothing Disney has done has been anywhere near as franchise destroying as what Lucas himself did to Star Wars.

[Damian Rey]

They've made completely unnecessary sequels to their big hits but none of them ruined the original material.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Newest theory is that Rey is Anakin Skywalker/Vader re-incarnated . Made by Midicholrians and implanted in some womb again. Would explain why Kylo was connected to her in the film and why she was OP.

So basically she/he is Frosty the Snowman/Jesus.

[Lock Jaw]

Sounds completely plausible!

[Simple Fan]

Ehh, think I'd rather her just be Luke's daughter. Making her Anakin 2.0 would be too much in my opinion.

[wwe2222]

Newest theory is that Rey is Anakin Skywalker/Vader re-incarnated . Made by Midicholrians and implanted in some womb again. Would explain why Kylo was connected to her in the film and why she was OP.

So basically she/he is Frosty the Snowman/Jesus.

I can't seem them doing much by midicholorians but you never know

[Blonde Moment]

Toy story, snow white , cinderella, the lion king, the jungle book, etc
sequel after sequel after sequel.

[road doggy dogg]

Toy Story 3 was incredible, what are you talking about

[Fignuts]

Eh, I dunno. Straight to dvd sequels marketed solely to kids doesn't really hurt these franchises, imo. A lot of people don't even know they exist.

[Fignuts]

And yeah, I'll take pixar sequels all day.

[Damian Rey]

Yeah Toy Story franchise has been incredible. The direct to DVD sequels weren't very good but they were harmless, much like any tv spin-off that may have followed.

[Kalyx triaD]

Disney's done right by Marvel so far. And the sequels to their golden era movies is no sweat off my back. Even their Power Ranger seasons were honestly the best seasons of the post-Zordan era. Disney doesn't fuck up enough to warrant people's fears when they buy stuff out. They're not Activision.

[Wishbone]

Toy story, snow white , cinderella, the lion king, the jungle book, etc
sequel after sequel after sequel.

Toy Story's sequels have been amazing.

Snow White never had a sequel at all.

Cinderella had a direct to dvd sequel, but honestly I've never seen it and I don't think the vast majority of people have so it's not really hurting anything. Plus Cinderella was pretty stupid in the first place.

The Lion King 2 wasn't that bad of a movie at all. In fact I sorta like it even today. Yeah it was a ripoff of Romeo and Juliet, but the original was just Hamlet with lions (and less dying of course). As for Lion King 1 1/2, well, that one was un-necessary as hell, but again it wasn't really bad. Plus it actually had a basis considering the Shakespeare influence of the other films. There was a play at one point that showed one of Shakespeare's plays from the perspective of 2 minor characters. That's essentially what Lion King 1 1/2 is.

The Jungle Book sequel is under the same camp as Cinderella's. No one saw it and no one cared. I have however seen it, and I'm going to tell you now that it isn't all that bad. It's really childish, but why is that a crime? It's clearly targeted at extremely young children (as most of the direct to dvd sequels were) so no harm no foul. And as far as super childish stuff goes it wasn't really all that bad. Was it un-necessary? Totally, but that doesn't mean it ruined the franchise.

As for some of the live action versions we're getting now, well, yeah, they're not great. I mean Maleficent was alright in my opinion. A bit of a missed opportunity, but the visuals were amazing, and Angelina did a pretty good job considering what she was given. Haven't seen Cinderella, but I've heard it was pretty meh. No one I've talked to has said it was "bad" though, just that it was kinda average and boring. The only other one I can think of is Snow White and the Huntsman which honestly I kinda liked. It was pretty stupid, but some of the action scenes were fun, and the visuals were pretty neat.

P.S. Live action Jungle Book looks amazing as hell, and if you don't think so you're not invited to my clubhouse. Oh, and my clubhouse is awesome cause we got cookies AND pizza so :p

[Tom Guycott]

Relax, I was just insinuating that you're probably a massive blurt if a droid not being painted is a hinderence on your movie experience.

Oh, that's fine. Carry on then.

And yes, not seeing another BB droid does seem like it reconciled that, but referring to it as "a BB unit" instead of "some small, round droid of somesort" implies it was, at least at some point over the last 30 years, a type of droid that had been mass produced. Others exist in the wild.

And I said I had a problem with it, I didn't say it completely ruined my experience and walked out of the theater or that I'm boycotting Rebel One. Just felt it was kind-of a plot hole. Even the "just take the birds to Mordor" hole didn't spoil me watching 9 hours of Rings. Explaining my issue takes a larger expenditure of effort and time than being annoyed by the plot hole does.

[Tom Guycott]

P.S. Live action Jungle Book looks amazing as hell, and if you don't think so you're not invited to my clubhouse. Oh, and my clubhouse is awesome cause we got cookies AND pizza so :p

Would this clubhouse require wearing a hat with plastic ears? If so, I want in. Maybe we'll form a short-lived singing group or splinter off into wildly successful boy bands, then singles acts!

[Wishbone]

Would this clubhouse require wearing a hat with plastic ears? If so, I want in. Maybe we'll form a short-lived singing group or splinter off into wildly successful boy bands, then singles acts!

I am all for the idea of starting a boy band. :y:

[Tom Guycott]

Yeah. The world is due for a multicultural boy band boom.

[Reavant]

You really are hilarious. You should get up off your computer every now and then, dude. Maybe stop going to 4chan so much. I think you're starting to lose touch with reality. That or you really need to move out of whatever Southern trailer park you might be living in. Either way there's clearly a major disconnect between the world you live in and the world most normal people live in.

Oh and :rofl: at your school comment. I think you need to calm your tits, man. I'd expect that kind of idiocy from the Youtube comments section, but not this foru- nevermind, I actually totally should have expected that from this forum... Still, un-rustle them jimmies, brother.

um what?

Rather than address and respond to any of my points and offer a counter, you resort to addressing who you think I am and where you think I live/go. Ok.

Ive lost touch with reality? ok. How? Where am I wrong? Where is this idealistic world you live in where what I said previously is not true? I've seen it with my own eyes and I live in a very nice area. I work in a firehouse. Trust me racism is alive and well.

Maybe you know I am right and you are angry at my jab at the end. Maybe you are just not smart enough to provide some type of counter. I don't know, Im just guessing.

[Reavant]

Are you fucking insane?

There's shit from the EU that would have been balls out awesome if it were filmed. And fanboys? The main issue with TFA is Abrams is too much of a New Hope fanboy.

I can not believe what you're saying right now.

I agree... I remember an all black star destroyer that could do death star like damage that a clone of palpatine flew around in.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Papaltine clones is dumb. But I like the ship idea.

[Reavant]

I didn't like the palpatine thing either but pictures of the star destroyer were awesome... it was supposed to be bigger than the one in empire strikes back.

[Wishbone]

um what?

Rather than address and respond to any of my points and offer a counter, you resort to addressing who you think I am and where you think I live/go. Ok.

Ive lost touch with reality? ok. How? Where am I wrong? Where is this idealistic world you live in where what I said previously is not true? I've seen it with my own eyes and I live in a very nice area. I work in a firehouse. Trust me racism is alive and well.

Maybe you know I am right and you are angry at my jab at the end. Maybe you are just not smart enough to provide some type of counter. I don't know, Im just guessing.

Dude, of course racism is still out there. You're acting like it's still this huge deal though. Being racist in public usually ends in the racist being shamed by the entire world these days. Yeah, you're gonna have a bunch of idiots on the internet flying off the handle about an interracial couple in Star Wars, but the vast majority of people wouldn't give a crap, and the vast majority would point and laugh at the idiots whining about it. Technically there are still people who think women should be relegated to the kitchen too, doesn't mean that those people are taken seriously by anyone with a real life.

[Simple Fan]

Like these guys. They say they have cost Disney 4.2 million dollars in ticket sells for Star WRs The Force Awakens because they find it to be SJW propaganda. If they would actually watch the movie they would probably like it. And is there any thing more gay that a Mens rights group.

http://tom-i-butler.tumblr.com/post/136603520756/star-wars-mens-rights-group-claims-its-boycott

[Reavant]

Dude, of course racism is still out there. You're acting like it's still this huge deal though. Being racist in public usually ends in the racist being shamed by the entire world these days. Yeah, you're gonna have a bunch of idiots on the internet flying off the handle about an interracial couple in Star Wars, but the vast majority of people wouldn't give a crap, and the vast majority would point and laugh at the idiots whining about it. Technically there are still people who think women should be relegated to the kitchen too, doesn't mean that those people are taken seriously by anyone with a real life.

It absolutely is a big deal these days. Everything that has been happening with black people and police is all racism... from why they get arrested, to what they get arrested for and especially how the arrests are handled.

And yes people are not really in your face about it now which leads to my point that people get to be shitty on the internet because they are relatively anonymous. Not to mention you have people who are crazy, doing crazy shit. you do something to piss them off, and you could have another dark knight theater shooting. That sounds far out? Well not to hollywood. they absolutly fear that shit.

Again why dont you see war movies that ever highlight moments where america was an asshole?

[Sixx]

OMG

THERE IS AN INTERRACIAL COUPLE IN THIS?

BOYCOTT STAR WARS

[Big Vic]

Dude, of course racism is still out there. You're acting like it's still this huge deal though. Being racist in public usually ends in the racist being shamed by the entire world these days. Yeah, you're gonna have a bunch of idiots on the internet flying off the handle about an interracial couple in Star Wars, but the vast majority of people wouldn't give a crap, and the vast majority would point and laugh at the idiots whining about it. Technically there are still people who think women should be relegated to the kitchen too, doesn't mean that those people are taken seriously by anyone with a real life.
I dunno I think it's kinda cool we had a mainstream movie with a black guy/white woman 'couple' where the movie didn't focus on race relations being the main story line.

[Wishbone]

It absolutely is a big deal these days. Everything that has been happening with black people and police is all racism... from why they get arrested, to what they get arrested for and especially how the arrests are handled.

And yes people are not really in your face about it now which leads to my point that people get to be shitty on the internet because they are relatively anonymous. Not to mention you have people who are crazy, doing crazy shit. you do something to piss them off, and you could have another dark knight theater shooting. That sounds far out? Well not to hollywood. they absolutly fear that shit.

Again why dont you see war movies that ever highlight moments where america was an asshole?

Dude, you are completely ridiculous and it is really hilarious. :lol:

[Wishbone]

I dunno I think it's kinda cool we had a mainstream movie with a black guy/white woman 'couple' where the movie didn't focus on race relations being the main story line.

Yeah, but that's my point. Most people feel like you or don't even notice like me. The vocal minority that bitch about it don't matter. Reavant is under the impression that people would be freaking out about it and it'd be all over the news and shit. The only news station that might even glance over it is Fox, and no one but lonely old men take those mongoloids seriously anymore. The biggest thing that would come out of something like this would be a bunch of shit internet sites posting clickbait articles on it, and despite what the nerds of the world want to believe the internet still isn't taken that seriously by mainstream media. At least not the parts of it that complain about shit like this. Hell, Reavant even went so far as to say it could trigger a mass shooting which is just about the most hilarious thing I think I've ever read on this forum lol.

[Reavant]

no more ridiculous than a draw muhammed contest triggering a mass shooting... oh wait that happened

[Kalyx triaD]

Not sure what you're inferring there, Reav.

Everybody hates racists. It can cost you your job if your words can be interpreted as racist or sexist. One would conclude we won that battle when politicians are tripping over themselves to not be called racist, up to and including literally white washing facts.

It's no longer a big deal. But if your local area still kicks up a fuss I suppose that's your local area.

[Wishbone]

Reavant, you really should look into moving out of whatever hick area you live in. Sounds like shit there, dude.

[Rammsteinmad]

Finally go and see this today! At 12.20 this afternoon. Hopefully the cinema will be empty.

[JimmyMess]

Saw this last night! Loved it! Just loved it! Everything I wanted in a Star Wars film!

Gimme more!

[Reavant]

Not sure what you're inferring there, Reav.

Everybody hates racists. It can cost you your job if your words can be interpreted as racist or sexist. One would conclude we won that battle when politicians are tripping over themselves to not be called racist, up to and including literally white washing facts.

It's no longer a big deal. But if your local area still kicks up a fuss I suppose that's your local area.

He said it would be crazy to have a shooting for something like that and i brought up such an example.

Im not saying black people are being put back in chains but given everything happening right now with how they are treated by cops, to the poverty devide, etc how can you say its not a big deal. you being black have a statistically higher rate of being arrested for doing something wrong than i do if i did the same thing. Thats not a big deal?

Thats a big digression, but I work in a firehouse near chicago that is all white and the shit I hear is crazy still. given the anonymity of the internet, shit gets nastier. There would be people there that would not see this film if there was a bm/wm lead role relationship thing. I personally dont care but a lot of people still do. Thats what Im saying here. Im saying Hollywood doesnt go that route in this movie so that the question never has to be addressed. Im saying their gunna chicken out.

Reavant, you really should look into moving out of whatever hick area you live in. Sounds like shit there, dude.

Dude Im saying the racists are wrong. If your gunna troll be good at it.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Just been to see it again. Just as sweet the second time.

[Kalyx triaD]

I would love to talk more about this but I'm currently off the grid and it would be a disservice to you and the topic typing soundbites on my phone. I will revisit this in another time in another thread.

[drave]

Haven't seen this yet, but from looking at the last 2 pages, yall ruined this thread and I move that a new, BULLSHIT FREE thread be started for great justice.

[slik]

I would love to talk more about this but I'm currently off the grid and it would be a disservice to you and the topic typing soundbites on my phone. I will revisit this in another time in another thread.


when you get a moment please add your thoughts here as well:

EDIT: er, nothing to see here, carry on...

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

NO SLIK

[slik]

Sorry, I got temporarily taken over by The Dark Side.

[Shisen Kopf]

Not sure what you're inferring there, Reav.

Everybody hates racists. It can cost you your job if your words can be interpreted as racist or sexist. One would conclude we won that battle when politicians are tripping over themselves to not be called racist, up to and including literally white washing facts.

It's no longer a big deal. But if your local area still kicks up a fuss I suppose that's your local area.


The world hate racists. TPWW seems to hate owenbrown. Hmmm, you don't think, nah, he's not. Is he?

[McLegend]

Nerd Star Wars post alert


So there is a theory about Ray and her lineage. It's not the she is a Skywalker rumor... it's she is Obi-Wan Kenobi's Grand Daughter...WTF

Where did people come up with that theory? I haven't read a good explanation on this yet.

[Simple Fan]

Seen that to, didn't see anything from the film that would point to that being the case other than hearing his voice be for her vision.. She would have been drawn to Obi Wans lightsaber. Wouldn't have a problem if she was but I just don't see it.

[McLegend]

People are leaning on the English accent, and that her, Obi-Wan, and C-3Po are the only good guys who use an English accent in all of the movies... Which I guess is right, and that's interesting if that really is case. Not because it makes them related, but because there has been a lot of English actors in Star Wars.

I think it's the worst theory yet. The Snoke is Darth Plagueis theory is awesome, and is the best theory so far. In fact if he isn't Darth Plagueis which he probably won't be I'm going to be disappointed.

[Wishbone]

Nah, that theory is bullocks. The best explanation for it that I've seen is that there was apparently a character in the Clone Wars cartoon that Obi-Wan said he'd have left the Jedi for if she'd have had him. Some people are saying that maybe between the season where she was introduced and the one where she died she and Obi-Wan broke his vows to the Jedi Order, and that she kept it secret so as to not ruin his life as a Jedi. Just seems way to convoluted honestly. Plus I just don't see them using something from the cartoons as a major plot point in the movies. I know they're technically canon now, but if Darth Vader having an apprentice hasn't been made a big deal then why would a little fling between Ben and some diplomat suddenly become a MAJOR one?

[Wishbone]

Also I too like the Darth Plagueis theory. The only reason I don't think it'll happen is that apparently the Knights of Ren are supposed to be something else entirely from the Sith. Apparently they wanna show that Jedi and Sith are not the only force users in the galaxy or something and that they're just two of many religions focusing around the force.

[Simple Fan]

People are leaning on the English accent, and that her, Obi-Wan, and C-3Po are the only good guys who use an English accent in all of the movies... Which I guess is right, and that's interesting if that really is case. Not because it makes them related, but because there has been a lot of English actors in Star Wars.

I think it's the worst theory yet. The Snoe is Darth Plagueis theory is awesome, and is the best theory so far. In fact if he isn't Darth Plagueis which he probably won't be I'm going to be disappointed.

From what I've read Snoke is a new character and not Darth Plagueis. They could just be try I g to cover it up though. Really want him to be Plagueis to tie in everything but if he's not I'd still be cool with a whole new character.

[McLegend]

It's not going to be Darth Plagueis. It will be some other thing, and it will probably be good.

With that said it's going to be anticlimactic, because The Darth Plagueis theory is more interesting then anything they are going to come up with now.

[McLegend]

Also I'm giving credit To Fignuts for coming up with the Darth Plagueis theory, because He was the first to mention it that I saw anywhere.

So thank you, Fignuts.

[RoXer]

Kalyx, your thoughts on this piece:

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/off-the-clock-space-opera-millennials-and-their-gr/1100-5371/

[Lock Jaw]

New theory I read speculates

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/161/970/i02/SnokeVader_3.jpg?1452123467

Snoke is actually Emperor Palpatine's spirit which went and inhabited Darth Vader's corpse.

[Lock Jaw]

I say no to that theory, but prob def an "intentional wink" that Snoke's scars look like Vader's....

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Luke burned the body in Jedi tradition.