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Old 10-19-2015, 01:24 PM   #361
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never thought
SPOILER: show
Khali
would be so clutch right now
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Old 10-19-2015, 01:59 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I think people are happy the US title has value again. But there have been a lot of unncessary matches between Cena and Rollins for no reason. They shouldn't have went up against each other at MSG.
Meh. I thought that was a great match. Didn't hurt Seth to lose that one. Plus it's not like it was on RAW. Viewership on the Network is going to be much lower than RAW.
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Old 10-19-2015, 02:28 PM   #363
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Remember that one December when they just put all their top guys in the Cell? Even if thy tried that today, it would mean nothing.
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Old 10-19-2015, 02:45 PM   #364
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Remember that one December when they just put all their top guys in the Cell? Even if thy tried that today, it would mean nothing.
Yep, Armageddon 2000.
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:05 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNLfunnyguy View Post
Remember that one December when they just put all their top guys in the Cell? Even if thy tried that today, it would mean nothing.
How did that show draw compared to other shows in the months prior and following?
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:08 PM   #366
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How did that show draw compared to other shows in the months prior and following?
Fucking hell, talk about a trap question. It was sandwiched right between Survivor Series and the 2001 Royal Rumble event. Of COURSE it's not going to draw as well.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:43 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Fucking hell, talk about a trap question. It was sandwiched right between Survivor Series and the 2001 Royal Rumble event. Of COURSE it's not going to draw as well.
Lol. Because WWE never had successful back to back shows back then?

Don't be sad that you're point was disproven
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:32 PM   #368
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No, because you're comparing a minor PPV which is/was held in a timeframe between 2 of the "Big 4" WWE PPVs.

You knew that's what I was saying, but nope, you had to try and slip the wool over everybody's eyes plsying the "GOTCHA!" card because you know you're comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:57 AM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
No, because you're comparing a minor PPV which is/was held in a timeframe between 2 of the "Big 4" WWE PPVs.

You knew that's what I was saying, but nope, you had to try and slip the wool over everybody's eyes plsying the "GOTCHA!" card because you know you're comparing apples to oranges.
Fair enough.

Then how did it do compared to nearby B shows. Say Sept, Oct, Feb 2001. That would give a better indication of how successful that match was.
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:58 PM   #370
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Here's an idea: DON'T BOOK YOUR TOP BABYFACE TO BE THE SECONDARY CHAMPION OR AGAINST THE HEEL CHAMPION YOU ARE TRYING TO BUILD!!!!

By Alexa Bliss' divine light, this is stupid.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:49 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Here's an idea: DON'T BOOK YOUR TOP BABYFACE TO BE THE SECONDARY CHAMPION OR AGAINST THE HEEL CHAMPION YOU ARE TRYING TO BUILD!!!!

By Alexa Bliss' divine light, this is stupid.
They did both though.

At the end of the day Rollins as a heel can proclaim he beat John Cena and was the first US/Heavyweight champ. A good heel would ignore that he lost a bunch of times to Cena right after.

A good top babyface rarely loses and when he does its because he got screwed. Cena did that with Rollins. And on top of that by being US champ, he has made that championship mean more.

Seems like a win win.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:45 PM   #372
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But it's not a win-win, CyNick. It's not a win-win at all.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:50 PM   #373
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:00 PM   #374
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Quote:
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But it's not a win-win, CyNick. It's not a win-win at all.
Seems like it is. Rollins had a nice list of guys he beat, he's kept the title for 7 months plus, and continues to look stronger by the day.

Cena has single handedly moved the US title up to a main event calibre title, which had never happened in WWE.

When you take off the negative glasses you wear, it's win win.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:01 PM   #375
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Says the man with rose colored glasses.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:17 PM   #376
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Rollins also has a nice list of guys who have beaten him. Does your champion need to look stronger by the day? I ask, because I think champions should look strong from the start.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:23 PM   #377
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About a year ago Rollins was the same weasel type heel but he was winning his matches.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:24 PM   #378
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Savior, just post mullets. It's easier.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:42 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Rollins also has a nice list of guys who have beaten him. Does your champion need to look stronger by the day? I ask, because I think champions should look strong from the start.
We've already hashed this out. Rollins shouldn't look too strong from jump otherwise he goes baby too quickly. Notice how his presentation changed from being a chicken to welcoming the next challenger. Likely the start of a babyface turn.

Classic, smart, long term booking.

But go ahead focus on the Viscera/mideon casket match.
Last edited by The CyNick; 10-28-2015 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:43 PM   #380
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Quote:
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About a year ago Rollins was the same weasel type heel but he was winning his matches.
Beat Cena, Sting, and Kane
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:48 PM   #381
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Lost to Cena, Sting, Kane, Ambrose, Ryback.

Quote:
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We've already hashed this out. Rollins shouldn't look too strong from jump otherwise he goes baby too quickly.
So when Does Braun Strowman start getting baby face reactions?
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:55 PM   #382
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Quote:
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Lost to Cena, Sting, Kane, Ambrose, Ryback.

So when Does Braun Strowman start getting baby face reactions?
Soon if he dominates guys.

Difference with him is he doesn't really have main event matches against to guys. He's just being protected primarily in tags.
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:36 PM   #383
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Don't you guys remember all the face pops Triple H got during his runs at the early turn of the century?
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:39 PM   #384
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:26 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
We've already hashed this out. Rollins shouldn't look too strong from jump otherwise he goes baby too quickly. Notice how his presentation changed from being a chicken to welcoming the next challenger. Likely the start of a babyface turn.

Classic, smart, long term booming.

But go ahead focus on the Viscera/mideon casket match.
Hahahaha, what?
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:24 AM   #386
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Rusev was getting huge babyface pops last year guys.
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:26 AM   #387
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:26 AM   #388
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Quote:
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Rusev was getting huge babyface pops last year guys.
Foreign heel is different
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:52 AM   #389
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Shield were undefeated for quite a long time and still got boos.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:11 AM   #390
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Shield were undefeated for quite a long time and still got boos.
I recall them getting cheers as well. Fans turned then babyface basically.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:11 AM   #391
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Quote:
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Don't you guys remember all the face pops Triple H got during his runs at the early turn of the century?
He did actually. You must not have been to many shows back then.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:49 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I recall them getting cheers as well. Fans turned then babyface basically.
Really I don't remember much people cheering when they were triple power bombing Daniel Bryan, or threatening Dusty Rhodes.

In fact the crowd was quite pro 'Rhodes bros' in their tag team match.
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Really I don't remember much people cheering when they were triple power bombing Daniel Bryan, or threatening Dusty Rhodes.

In fact the crowd was quite pro 'Rhodes bros' in their tag team match.
That's pretty selective
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #394
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I'm not going to go through their whole 2.5 year run
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:21 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I'm not going to go through their whole 2.5 year run
Nor am I. I rely on memory.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:06 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post

What I am saying is that he's CURRENTLY either out of touch, complacent, afraid to take risks creatively, or some combination of the above. His past success was great. No one's denying that.
why wouldn't he be complacent? there is no competition. and it's not dirtsheet nonsense or rumor or anything to say we have all known vince wants to be entertainment over wrestling and right now his big dreams are coming true. Vince has made wrestling a secondary focus of his entertainment company. we are all dreaming if we think the big focus of the company is to push for a product old school fans, or internet fans really want
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:17 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I think you're mixing things up.

Wrestling is and always has been a pretty basic level form of storytelling and character developmental. Even the greatest angles in the history of the business were not exactly Emmy Award winning pieces of writing. Was Vince ending up as the Higher Power more compelling than the stuff today?

I personally think the storytelling is no different today than it was 15 years ago. Triple H and Steph are the new Mr McMahon. You have the same cheesy love triangle storylines (Mero-Sable is Rusev-Lana). You have the cowardly heel champion gifted the belt (Rock was in the same spot Rollins is today). And most of those storylines have been staples in all wrestling territories.

There are several differences that cause people to percieve the current product as being not as good and the IWC faithful like to blame creative because it's the easy thing to do. When they should look closer at external factors.

First, the talent just isn't as good. In the ring, generally speaking each generation gets better in the ring. As athletes evolve they are able to do more things. If Kofi Kingston came along in 1990, he would stand out, today he's just another guy.

But the other aspects of being a sports entertainer are lost on a lot of guys. I think a lot of it has to do with the millennial generation. I think they expect creative to cultivate every aspect of their character and tell them what to say. In reality they should take ownership of the character they are given and contribute to the creative process so their character comes off more genuine. If you listen to the guys who made the serious money in this business they all talk about taking charge of their own characters. More guys should take that advice and run with it. Don't sit back and wait on the bench for your name to be called. Leave no doubt that you should be a star and if you are skilled, you will be one. Daniel Bryan is a great example of this and unfortunately he's rare in todays crop of talent. He proved he belonged at the top, and creative cultivated that.

The other problem is people remember the Attitude era fondly but in reality it was scumbag level TV. I was in my late teens during that era so it seemed cool, but looking back I would never want children exposed to the filth that was being presented on a weekly basis. At the time it was okay for WWE to present such a product because they were a solely owned company that was seen as renegade.

It wasn't a sustainable business model for the worldwide publicly traded entertainment conglomerate that the company has flourished into. Advertisers wanted no part of them, they were getting crucified in the media, nobody wanted to be associated with them. Now they are a much more mature brand, and you see the benefits of some of the cross promotional efforts that exist today. It's a product you are not afraid to watch with your children and grandparents alike. On top of that and more importantly is fiscally healthier.

The last thing is the violence. I think people have this fond memory of the late 90s because every other night you had someone risking life and limb or spilling blood to pop a rating. As a lifelong fan, i'm happier with the current toned down product. Hopefully fewer guys have concussion issues and crippling neck injuries. I can do without the off the ladder spear every month. I'd rather watch Xavier Woods play the trombone.

Once i stopped reading the sheets, I enjoyed wrestling for the same whackiness that got me hooked on it in the first place. If i find myself not enjoying a show i will stop watching. For example, I hated this past season of House of Cards. My reaction isn't to subscribe to Mave Deltzers newsletter to find out which writer had the most power last season, i'm just going to stop watching. Life is too short to waste time. If you enjoy, watch. If not, go check out anything on TLC and let me know how WWE writing stacks up.

everything about this is accurate and you guys can't see it because you still believe you should be the demographic focus because you have been fans for so long. we aren't the demographic and the extreme days and all the crash tv stuff is dead, it isn't coming back, nor should it.

You guys clamoring for someone that you have a crush on to get elevated are the same guys who shit on a superstar once he's in the spotlight. IWC are hands down the most fickle group to ever exist and that is why you can't have nice things.

there are stars and they will always shine through. I would love for the company to push the guys i like most, I'd love less Cena, i want managers brought back, i want cole put out to pasture, i want superstars back on saturday mornings to watch squash matches, etc, but if you don't like the product it's because they aren't catering to you anymore and you feel like youare more important than the masses. or you don't understand corporations, or you are so stupid you actually believe wretlemania 32 is booked the night after wrestlemania 31 and there are never more than one option in place.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:27 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanSmiley View Post
why wouldn't he be complacent? there is no competition. and it's not dirtsheet nonsense or rumor or anything to say we have all known vince wants to be entertainment over wrestling and right now his big dreams are coming true. Vince has made wrestling a secondary focus of his entertainment company. we are all dreaming if we think the big focus of the company is to push for a product old school fans, or internet fans really want
No doubt that he's always wanted it to be entertainment over wrestling. I don't think you can say though, that the Attitude Era was still a "wrestling" show. I think the Attitude era was no doubt an entertainment program with a secondary or maybe even tertiary wrestling element, no differently than today.

My point was that, even if he has no competition, complacency or fear of taking even calculated risks are never good things from a leadership perspective, especially for a company.

And for the record, I have stopped watching. The only thing I've heard about recently that has remotely gotten me intrigued in the current product to check out is the Lesnar/Taker Cell match from this past weekend. Curious to see how violent it really got. Maybe I'll check it out this weekend on the Network. Could care less about any of the other matches or characters though because WWE's given me nothing to be invested in nor a reason to.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:34 PM   #399
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i can totally understand someone switching off and not watching. it's suffered from what i think was the one good part of the attitude era, mid card writing. giving guys who aren't in the main event picture a program to work. That there is the major fault i find with today's product. guys are floundering because of that.

i love the network more than watching raw which is dvr'd and after the first segment i can place what will happen then fast forward
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:48 PM   #400
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Nor am I. I rely on memory.
Well, your memory is off.
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