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Old 03-25-2010, 08:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOCCER LEGS View Post
most of you are missing the point that mcmahon is driving at.

our culture is obsessed with pop culture. the WWE has been slowly and surely gaining more of a foothold into the mainstream. a couple examples of this are the celebrity guest hosts they've been having on RAW, and the WWE's expansion of the diva's division to make the show more appealing to women. the closer the WWE is to the vein of the mainstream, the more appealing the show is to the average person.

basically, Vince's vision of the WWE is a show that can keep the entire family entertained, rather than a show that is meant for pro wrestling fans.
Decent post dude, props.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:50 PM   #42
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Vince comparing WWE to Disney?

Give me a fucking break.

Like WWE's programming is totally appropriate for children and families.

That and Walt Disney's worst day was still way better than Vince's best one.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:50 PM   #43
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I don't know, Mickey was kind of shoved down our throats for decades.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:53 PM   #44
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But his image works as a brand in itself.

That is identifiable by everyone in the world, and always will be.

John Cena - not so much.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:53 PM   #45
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and the way the donald had to put mickey over just plain sucked
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:00 PM   #46
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Donald also hates Cena.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:03 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
To be fair, TNA's Sports Entertainment too.

Vince is just wrong on that statement.
Yeah, I don't get what's so different besides WWE's new friendlier tone. What makes TNA pro wrestling and WWE "sports entertainment"? WWE was doing the same shit as TNA in 1999 and they still called it sports entertainment.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:09 PM   #48
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Vince just wants everyone to believe there is actually 'entertainment' or 'sports' on his show; when, clearly, there is neither.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:09 PM   #49
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technically all pro wrestling is sports entertainment
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:11 PM   #50
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And I love how Vince always uses 'wrasslin' as a derogatory term, when that's what his father promoted, and that's what all the companies in the 1970's / 80's who were making more than him promoted, and that's what WCW - the company who beat him for over a year straight in the ratings - promoted (for the most part, work with me here).

The guy has been a cancer to the actual wrestling business since he got into it.

Curse his father for having him.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by KayfabeMan View Post
Vince comparing WWE to Disney?

Give me a fucking break.

Like WWE's programming is totally appropriate for children and families.

That and Walt Disney's worst day was still way better than Vince's best one.
again, you're missing the point.


like Disney, the WWE provides entertainment through a number of different mediums: television shows, pay per views, monthly magazines, movie productions, record albums, on demand cable channel, clothing apparel, etc.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:20 PM   #52
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Vince would bottle people's tears and sell it as bottled water if he could.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOCCER LEGS View Post
again, you're missing the point.


like Disney, the WWE provides entertainment through a number of different mediums: television shows, pay per views, monthly magazines, movie productions, record albums, on demand cable channel, clothing apparel, etc.
I got the point, I just didn't like the comparison to Disney itself.

Had he said Oprah, for example, I'd be fine with it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:50 PM   #54
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Kayfabeman you are the biggest WWE hater of all time.

You kinda sound like the bitter old man who thinks WWE ruined wrestling forever.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:54 PM   #55
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Thank You
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:04 PM   #56
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Vince with all due respect is losing his touch these days. He is out of the loop to what fans really want to see. He also doesn't have a son with a real passion for the business who has some fresh innovative ideas, and a finger on the pulse of WWE's audience ready to take over. Guess Triple H and Stephanie will have to do.
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:49 AM   #57
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This whole thread makes me laugh. Seriously.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:02 AM   #58
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I don't think the culture wants what TNA is dishing out. However, I think a lot of people would enjoy a more adult-oriented version of what the WWE is producing. TNA's product, however, doesn't deliver anything remotely as deep as ECW or as compelling as WWE.
It's interesting. I watch Raw and it seems more than half of it's "drama" than actual competition. I know alot of people can't stand Vince but give the devil his due, he's a great businessman.

And I'm sure the "kids" love those skimpy outfits the Divas wear, LOL
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:08 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by bostonbill41 View Post
It's interesting. I watch Raw and it seems more than half of it's "drama" than actual competition. I know alot of people can't stand Vince but give the devil his due, he's a great businessman.

And I'm sure the "kids" love those skimpy outfits the Divas wear, LOL
He isnt a great businessman, he was, he isnt any more. He's been losing audience figures pretty steadily and has to do all he can to keep his audience, i.e. make it PG to entice the kiddies in because he alientated his existing audience. Thats not a good businessman, its clutching at straws.

He wants to be an entertainment show, thats fine, but this forum is full of wrestling fans, and the top Wrestling company these days is TNA. WWE does some good wrestling matches, but what you see on Monday and Friday nights is not wrestling. Or at most a watered down version of wrestling.

Admittedly TNA has a tendancy to go the other direction and end up with spotfests but thats not the arguement here.

TNA has better wrestling than WWE (not neccessarilly better wrestlers, but the quality of the wrestling itself). The main appeal for me is the "flippy Stuff" (apologies to any actual wrestlers who read that, Ive watched WWE for so long I cant remember half the proper names for moves ), that is a great display of balance and athletic ability.

Its not fun to watch a brawl that you feel you could reenact with a friend in your living room. It is fun to watch a wrestling match with skilled wrestlers doing what they do best. It doesnt have to have blood, or weapons even, (weapons and blood are fun on occasion though), but the reversal into reversal stuff is just great to watch, it also means the wins can come out of nowhere and get you wrapped up in the match.

I dont think TNA will ever beat WWE as they arent on the same battleground anymore. I do think that TNA will become more popular, and will get audience figures comparable to WWE eventually.

But by that point it will be like comparing Saturday Night Live to a football match. Just different TV shows.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny McNasty View Post
Vince with all due respect is losing his touch these days. He is out of the loop to what fans really want to see. He also doesn't have a son with a real passion for the business who has some fresh innovative ideas, and a finger on the pulse of WWE's audience ready to take over. Guess Triple H and Stephanie will have to do.
I always got the impression that the business was destined for Steph and he would be playing second fiddle to her.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:16 PM   #61
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Friday Night Smackdown has more wrestling than Impact, by far. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Also, NXT has more wrestling in an hour than Impact ever does in 2.

As for Raw, they feature about an equal amount of in ring action. Usually Raw has a bit more.

Those are the facts. As for my opinion of the product, the non-wrestling aspect that both companies feature is much more coherent and tolerable in WWE. Storylines, fueds, booking, and the overall meaning behind everything is more clear-cut and logical in the WWE. Production value hasn't even entered the conversation yet, but I won't go there. That's just my view though, and you don't have to agree.

But claiming that TNA is heavier on wrestling than WWE would be false. So your point that it's like comparing saturday night live to a football match only holds relevance if Saturday Night Live contains more football than the football match.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:17 PM   #62
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wwe's highest ratings ever
8.4 September 27, 1999 during attitude era

average ratings for attitude era 6.0

raw average rating since pg 3.6


just sayin'
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
TNA president Dixie Carter responded to Vince McMahon’s criticism of TNA in an interview published yesterday with a post on Twitter.

“To be called tawdry from the King of Tawdry, that is some compliment!” Carter said.

Regarding TNA, McMahon told Acorn Online: “When they moved to Monday nights, they threw the kitchen sink at us and only did a fraction of our audience. It doesn’t speak well for the type of product they’re trying to present with the tawdry, blood-soaked action. I don’t think that’s what the culture wants these days.”

Furthermore, Taz also noted the following in regards to McMahon’s comments: “Mae Young stuff is all high road, or when JR was sick Dr Hynee bit (classy)! Pot, meet Kettle. Nice to see VKM is a TNA viewer!”
that Dr Hynee bit turned me off wrestling for years
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:27 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Friday Night Smackdown has more wrestling than Impact, by far. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Also, NXT has more wrestling in an hour than Impact ever does in 2.

As for Raw, they feature about an equal amount of in ring action. Usually Raw has a bit more.

Those are the facts. As for my opinion of the product, the non-wrestling aspect that both companies feature is much more coherent and tolerable in WWE. Storylines, fueds, booking, and the overall meaning behind everything is more clear-cut and logical in the WWE. Production value hasn't even entered the conversation yet, but I won't go there. That's just my view though, and you don't have to agree.

But claiming that TNA is heavier on wrestling than WWE would be false. So your point that it's like comparing saturday night live to a football match only holds relevance if Saturday Night Live contains more football than the football match.
I didnt mention the amount of wrestling, Im talking about the actual wrestling matches themselves, and the content of them.

TNA's production value is worse than WWE, but it is improving. Noone expects TNA to become massive overnight, so we have to judge by the direction the companies are headed.

Apart from maybe 2 fueds I couldnt care less about WWE at the moment and its coming up to 'Mania. Theres just more stuff I want to watch on TNA right now, Hogan is on TV less and less, Bischoff is still awesome on the mic, plus RVD without the restrictions on moveset and character might go somewhere. I'm enjoying the nostalga of TNA right now, theres some promise to it as well. WWE, well all they have promised is that PG is here to stay.

Its all subjective, I'm fed up w/ PG TV.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:31 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kareru View Post
wwe's highest ratings ever
8.4 September 27, 1999 during attitude era

average ratings for attitude era 6.0

raw average rating since pg 3.6


just sayin'

Look in the yellow circle.














Just sayin'
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:31 PM   #66
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Got him good
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:33 PM   #67
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that Dr Hynee bit turned me off wrestling for years
I should probably be glad for not knowing, but what is this Dr Hynee stuff of which you speak?
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:34 PM   #68
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Look in the yellow circle.







Just sayin'



yeah that was the beginning of the attitude era
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:40 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by RVDmark View Post
I didnt mention the amount of wrestling, Im talking about the actual wrestling matches themselves, and the content of them.

TNA's production value is worse than WWE, but it is improving. Noone expects TNA to become massive overnight, so we have to judge by the direction the companies are headed.

Apart from maybe 2 fueds I couldnt care less about WWE at the moment and its coming up to 'Mania. Theres just more stuff I want to watch on TNA right now, Hogan is on TV less and less, Bischoff is still awesome on the mic, plus RVD without the restrictions on moveset and character might go somewhere. I'm enjoying the nostalga of TNA right now, theres some promise to it as well. WWE, well all they have promised is that PG is here to stay.

Its all subjective, I'm fed up w/ PG TV.

Hogan is not on TV less and less, but whatever. I'm glad you can enjoy that but I can't. I don't think anything about their wrestling is any better.
I'd much rather see Jericho, Punk, Morrison and the rest of the Smackdown roster in matches that go somewhere and often times feature finishes.

I can't remember the last time a WWE ppv ended with a slapstick Benny Hill segment, and a title challenger being happy that he got screwed out of the belt. As long as he gets to pose with Hogan, that's the real victory right?
And he doesn't even get a rematch or a fued continuation. He just moves on.

The ring action often doesn't do anything for me there, because the fueds don't mean anything, and there isn't really any storyelling going on in there. AJ and Abyss can work, but there's just not much to it other than that. It's just TNA talent pool matchup #50480283403.

Aside from the stuff Angle does, I'm usually not interested. And Angle's fueds and angles don't do any favors. He's just so damn good in the ring that he is able to elevate guys for the time they're in the ring with him. After that, TNA doesn't seem to do anything with them.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:50 PM   #70
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yeah that was the beginning of the attitude era
They had been putting out the attitude era product for over 6 months at that point.
What I'm saying is, the product is what it is. The whole TV PG crusade the IWC is on is a huge scapegoat. The problem should be with the booking, and the level of creativity and motivation driving the product.

That's like saying a movie that is rated PG can't be great, or even win best picture, gain critical acclaim, or hit at the box office.


Blood, unprotected chairshots, and sexual content do not make the wrestling program any better or worse unless you are watching for those things specifically. For the people that do, I think Backyard Wrestling tapes are the place to go.

Storytelling, innovation, creativity, and things of that nature are what made that programming such quality. It can be done today whether it's TV PG or TV MA.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:55 PM   #71
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They had been putting out the attitude era product for over 6 months at that point.
What I'm saying is, the product is what it is. The whole TV PG crusade the IWC is on is a huge scapegoat. The problem should be with the booking, and the level of creativity and motivation driving the product.

That's like saying a movie that is rated PG can't be great, or even win best picture, gain critical acclaim, or hit at the box office.


Blood, unprotected chairshots, and sexual content do not make the wrestling program any better or worse unless you are watching for those things specifically. For the people that do, I think Backyard Wrestling tapes are the place to go.

Storytelling, innovation, creativity, and things of that nature are what made that programming such quality. It can be done today whether it's TV PG or TV MA.

i agree, i9m just saying that VKM has no idea what ' the culture' wants anymore, and maybe he should step down
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:59 PM   #72
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Yea but you state that ratings are going in the tank and Raw's average rating since TV PG is 3.6

That's a misleading number. Raw's average rating since 2003 is 3.6. In fact, looking at the sheet right now it has consistently been between 3-4 since early 2003, and in some stretches the ratings were even lower than they are now.

So when a TV 14 rated product from 2003, featuring attitude era stars is drawing a lower rating, what are you going to blame?

Seems like now the argument is going to shift from TV PG being the problem to just plain Vince...
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:07 PM   #73
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Yea but you state that ratings are going in the tank and Raw's average rating since TV PG is 3.6

That's a misleading number. Raw's average rating since 2003 is 3.6. In fact, looking at the sheet right now it has consistently been between 3-4 since early 2003, and in some stretches the ratings were even lower than they are now.

So when a TV 14 rated product from 2003, featuring attitude era stars is drawing a lower rating, what are you going to blame?

Seems like now the argument is going to shift from TV PG being the problem to just plain Vince...
its both, he seems to think that PG entertainment is the way to go and it clearly isn't he barely even knows what todays adults want so he has no hope with the kids
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:11 PM   #74
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well then what is the way to go? If it's doing the same ratings as the post-attitude era with all it's leftover stars and a TV 14 rating, it can't be that off base.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:28 PM   #75
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well then what is the way to go? If it's doing the same ratings as the post-attitude era with all it's leftover stars and a TV 14 rating, it can't be that off base.
well i would equate to what they are doing at the moment to killing a mouse with a shotgun, if it was up to me and the goal was wide demographic i would do this

WWE monday night raw - PG14 aimed at teens
ECW wednesday night hardcore tv - MA aimed at adults and wrestling fans, im not talking about 2 girls fucking in the ring type of stuff but a bit more adult based.

WCW friday nitro - PG tv aimed more at families and kids

hell even by doing this they could probably slam out 2 ppvs per month, this way every body is happy, they could probably storyline some takeover and treat the 'companies' as separate entities
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:34 PM   #76
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So what you're suggesting is that the WWE, on it's own, tries to orchestrate a re-enactment of the boom period on their own. By replicating what was popular in 1999, they are tapping into what the culture wants today?
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:37 PM   #77
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So what you're suggesting is that the WWE, on it's own, tries to orchestrate a re-enactment of the boom period on their own. By replicating what was popular in 1999, they are tapping into what the culture wants today?
obviously the storylines would be different but since the wwe own both wcw and ecw they should do more with it, maybe even capture back some of the fans that were 'lost in the shuffle'
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:43 PM   #78
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Attitude Era is dead, ECW is dead, WCW is dead. They're never coming back.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:44 PM   #79
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Maybe they should reform the AWA and NWA while they're at it. They can set up territories and that way the roster won't have to tour as much. Surely some of those 80s fan that were 'lost in the shuffle' will be recaptured...

The WWE is not going to move backwards, and trying to reel in fans from the past is a crapshoot. They need to move forward, and aim to create new ones. The past is the past, and this "culture" you speak of needs to be found in the present. The money is in new fans, and future fans. Cradle to the grave.

WCW and ECW are dead entities. The WWE has already used them up on air, and they're now 10 years old and dead. It's time for wrestling to move on, and so should it's fans.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:45 PM   #80
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Attitude Era is dead, ECW is dead, WCW is dead. They're never coming back.
anything can happen in the world of 'rasslin'
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