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Old 02-28-2010, 10:06 AM   #1
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Question: TNA VS WWE
Now i'm pretty sure the general idea is that TNA is awful, or at least i think you all say that... i've pegged tpww wrong before and i am out of the loop... SO MAYBE IT's epic good i dunno.

Now IF TNA is awful, and if it's comprised of former used to be's, would be's, and should be's of the WWE then is TNA's present suck a sign of TNA's failure to use talent or the WWE's skill of using the talent? (In your opinion.)

NOW YOU CAN BELEIVE THAT BOTH ARE FACTORS BUT AT SOME POINT ONE HAS TO BE MORE TRUE THAN THE OTHER AND THAT LINE IS WHERE MY INTEREST IS.

"It's both" is an answer only fit for liberal vaginas with no spine...and gingers.

Last edited by Destor; 02-28-2010 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:10 AM   #2
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you're annoying apostrophe substitutes are bothering me far too much to answer this question
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #3
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:00 AM   #4
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Actually, I think most of us here don't despise TNA. They just like to complain about it. I mean when you have a company that's been around for thirty years or so, it's bound to have some advantages over the one that's been around for seven. TNA does misuse some talent that I would like to see go over a little more, but my opinion probably doesn't reflect much on the majority. In terms of sheer numbers, TNA has almost no where to go but up, so it's kind of like kicking a guy when he's already down to say that they suck. I don't think the reason they are down is either one of those. I think it's just the fact that not as many people watch wrestling these days and TNA just so happens to be the number two company. Simple as that. I don't think using the talent better is going to improve viewership on a large scale, that will take something much bigger.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:06 AM   #5
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TNA hasn't risen to its potential yet. Just wait.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:09 AM   #6
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TNA hasn't risen to its potential yet. Just wait.
Its getting worse??

Anyway the failure of TNA is management:- Their tv schedule is nothing different from Raw and we all know Smackdown has WAY more wrestling content than Impact!
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:39 AM   #7
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the main problem i see with tna is that it is ment to be total non-stop action yet they have less wrestling per show than raw
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:39 AM   #8
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guys...you fail at the question.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:41 AM   #9
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:41 AM   #10
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:42 AM   #11
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:42 AM   #12
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WWE uses their talent better than TNA when it comes to storylines, TNA just happens to push guys that WWE doesn't see much in for whatever reason (too small, not charismatic enough, etc).

TNA is better with the lower-card in-ring product, but from a business standpoint, that's not going to sell, especially with what style they're selling.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:44 AM   #13
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:45 AM   #14
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Now i'm pretty sure the general idea is that TNA is awful, or at least i think you all say that... i've pegged tpww wrong before and i am out of the loop... SO MAYBE IT's epic good i dunno.

Now IF TNA is awful, and if it's comprised of former used to be's, would be's, and should be's of the WWE then is TNA's present suck a sign of TNA's failure to use talent or the WWE's skill of using the talent? (In your opinion.)

NOW YOU CAN BELEIVE THAT BOTH ARE FACTORS BUT AT SOME POINT ONE HAS TO BE MORE TRUE THAN THE OTHER AND THAT LINE IS WHERE MY INTEREST IS.

"It's both" is an answer only fit for liberal vaginas with no spine...and gingers.
I might be the worst person to answer this considering I've liked TNA better than the WWE for a solid 2 years now. However, I still like both companies very much. I'm easily pleased.

But to get to your question if it has to be one its TNA's failure rather than the WWE being good at using their talent.

The simple truth is the WWE isn't very good with using their talent, they're just good at keeping the talent that would hurt them somewhere else, with the notable exceptions of Kurt Angle and Christian (who came back anyway).

If the WWE were good at using talent Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and The Undertaker would have been putting over cleanly the following... Randy Orton, Edge, Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and John Morrison. They haven't. It's a serious failure on WWE's part on handling talent when thew only real credible wrestlers in the company are Cena, Batista, Triple H, HBK, and 'Taker.

This isn't to say they do everything wrong, Jericho is the Champion going against Edge in a main event and CM Punk is getting himself over. However when Christian put himself over big time the WWE stunted his growth for some stupid reason.

After saying all the preceeding it could only be TNA's failure because WWE hasn't been hugely successful when dealing with talent...

When Carlito, Chavo Guerrero, Evan Borne, Jack Swagger, Primo, William Regal, Yoshi Tatsu, Charlie Haas, Curt Hawkins, DH Smith, Jimmy Wang Yang, JTG, Funaki, Mike Knox, Shad, Slam Master J and Tyson Kidd get less air time per week than "guest hosts" that's a failure on WWE's part.

So because of WWE's failure you answer has to be TNA's failure.
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:11 PM   #16
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WWE uses their talent better than TNA when it comes to storylines, TNA just happens to push guys that WWE doesn't see much in for whatever reason (too small, not charismatic enough, etc).

TNA is better with the lower-card in-ring product, but from a business standpoint, that's not going to sell, especially with what style they're selling.
I think WWE's lower card performers which I call their mid card are much more talented than TNA's. I mean you have CM Punk, John Morrison, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes, they're all better than TNAs mid card. And of course there's Christian, Shelton Benjamin etc, but Christian hopefully will be a main eventer soon. I like the main eventers in TNA better except for Abyss who I don't understand why TNA thinks he is that good. He's not bad, but he is not as good as TNA thinks he is.
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off
If the WWE were good at using talent Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and The Undertaker would have been putting over cleanly the following... Randy Orton, Edge, Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and John Morrison. They haven't. It's a serious failure on WWE's part on handling talent when thew only real credible wrestlers in the company are Cena, Batista, Triple H, HBK, and 'Taker.
The WWE didn't make Randy Orton a star? I'm fucking appaled at this. They gave Orton the ball way too early and he flopped as a face. He is a one-dimensional overrated piece of shit who is one of main players in WWE. Orton has headlined 3 WrestleManias. He is the youngest World Champion in WWE History. He has worked with legends who put him over. He has a stable built around him. Randy Orton is a huge star, but Orton's limitations mean he can only be a heel...and a boring one at that. Edge should have gotten a clean win over Cena, but he was a heel who could actually get heat against Cena so they constantly had him play heel fodder for Cena during his megarun in 05-07.

Edge is a main player in WWE, and he is now getting his "moment in the sun" thanks to getting hurt and coming back as a face (something he hasn't been in years).

John Morrison is getting the slow build, and that is the best thing for him because he isn't ready yet. He is top-notch in the ring, but his promos aren't quite ready to carry SmackDown!. Give it time.

As far as Shelton and Carlito, are you fucking nuts? Yes, they would be awesome ROH Champions...but this is WWE. Shelton has gotten push after push and he always fucks up when he gets his chance. Carlito is a dickweed who can't shut his fucking mouth. WWE isn't going to put faith into somebody who bitches all the time, just ask RVD.

As far as this thread goes, it is TNA's horrible use of their characters as to why they can only compete with AM RAW and ECW. TNA is a clusterfuck of old guys and indy darlings. There is no psychology in TNA. Jeff Jarrett will never be a credible World Champion. WCW died in 2001, and Bischoff and Hogan need to realize that. TNA looks bush-league. TNA feels bush-league. Therefore, TNA is bush-league. They are the largest and most internationally exposed indy fed in the World. Yes, they beat WWE in the UK but what is the wrestling market like right now? Just like TNA...NOT VERY FUCKING GOOD.
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The WWE didn't make Randy Orton a star? I'm fucking appaled at this. They gave Orton the ball way too early and he flopped as a face.
Orton flopped as a face because his character became one that didn't suit him. He became a guy who sucked up to the crowd, and this has been proven to fail with more than just him (Kennedy is another example). He could play a face, just not that kind of face.

To answer the question at hand, I agree with The Show Off. I think it is TNA's failure over WWE's skill in using talent because WWE doesn't use a lot of talent to potential either. They keep people who will hurt them by being successful in the rival promotion. He mentioned Angle, I'll go with Gail Kim. Since returning to the company, she has done virtually nothing. That's a failure on WWE's part (in my opinion).

So to sum up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off
So because of WWE's failure you answer has to be TNA's failure.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Orton flopped as a face because his character became one that didn't suit him. He became a guy who sucked up to the crowd, and this has been proven to fail with more than just him (Kennedy is another example). He could play a face, just not that kind of face.

So to sum up:
If WWE gives you the ball, then make it fucking work.

Mick Foley made it work they told him to pull out his hair, squeal like a pig, and call Goldust mommy.

JBL made it work when they told him to go from a drunk badass cowboy to a Wall Street Slimebag.

Undertaker made it work when they told him to act like a fucking undead cowboy.

Eddie Guerrero made it work when they told him to act like a dumb Mexican-American who loved Chyna, took her to Prom, and got his GED all while trying to contain a sex-addiction and violent temper.

Triple H made it work when they told him to get thrown in pig-shit.

Its not the WWE's fault Randy Orton can't work a crowd and make them give a fuck. Its not WWE's fault when any of these guys can't do what they are told and make it work. Its not like "be a fan-favorite" is a hard gimmick.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:03 PM   #20
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Triple H made it work when they told him to get thrown in pig-shit.
There is no redeemable quality about that.

Ditto to jobbing to Warrior.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:05 PM   #21
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Its getting worse??

Anyway the failure of TNA is management:- Their tv schedule is nothing different from Raw and we all know Smackdown has WAY more wrestling content than Impact!
please explain what you mean by failure? Does failure to you mean not entertaining you week in and week out?
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:08 PM   #22
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and by the way, WWE isn't a failure either.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:08 PM   #23
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and by the way, WWE isn't a failure either.
Obviously. Unless by failure you mean, "the face of an industry, and the only company that is remotely relevant in today's society."
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:14 PM   #24
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It could be because fans hate when the faces kiss their asses, since just about every face who does this flops.

I get it, you don't like Orton. That doesn't mean he "can't play a face" because he can't be a kiss ass. Not everyone can play that character and get people to actually like it (rather than just mindlessly cheer because that person is feuding with a heel).
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by screech View Post
It could be because fans hate when the faces kiss their asses, since just about every face who does this flops.

I get it, you don't like Orton. That doesn't mean he "can't play a face" because he can't be a kiss ass. Not everyone can play that character and get people to actually like it (rather than just mindlessly cheer because that person is feuding with a heel).


FFS, his first feud was against Triple H when Evolution turned on him. He had all the sympathy in the world, but he couldn't make it work because he fucking sucks on the mic and is mediocre in the ring. Randy Orton's gimmick wasn't a kissass. He was a face. Faces can't tell the fans to go fuck themselves. They just have to modify their style to be more "fan friendly". Orton couldn't do it. He was World Heavyweight Champion, he should be able to do whatever it takes to get over. I will give you this, Randy Orton can do the whole "slow evil walk, slow evil glare, slow evil smirk, GRRR ANGRY SMASH IED" gimmick better than anybody.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:21 PM   #26
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the Orton face thing in 2004 was wierd booking. They kept making him run away from Evolution. they tried to explain as if he was outsmarting the Cerebral Asasian, but he just looked like a coward. I didn't understand how that would get him over

who wants to cheer a World Champion that runs away from his enemies?
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
If WWE gives you the ball, then make it fucking work.

Mick Foley made it work they told him to pull out his hair, squeal like a pig, and call Goldust mommy.

JBL made it work when they told him to go from a drunk badass cowboy to a Wall Street Slimebag.

Undertaker made it work when they told him to act like a fucking undead cowboy.

Eddie Guerrero made it work when they told him to act like a dumb Mexican-American who loved Chyna, took her to Prom, and got his GED all while trying to contain a sex-addiction and violent temper.

Triple H made it work when they told him to get thrown in pig-shit.

Its not the WWE's fault Randy Orton can't work a crowd and make them give a fuck. Its not WWE's fault when any of these guys can't do what they are told and make it work. Its not like "be a fan-favorite" is a hard gimmick.
Yes, and the WWE no longer gives people chances to run with the ball. They push people they want in the main event and to hell with anyone that gets genuine reactions from the crowd and gets themselves over...

Just ask... Mr. Kennedy, Carlito, Christian, Elijah Burke, and Rob Van Dam... All five of them were super over with those in the WWE and the WWE stunted their growth or just flat out released them. Christian is the worst example of this.

Christian was told to be a vampire... he made it work.

Christian was told to be the goofy sidekick of Edge... he made it work.

Christian was told to be one of the new kings of the ladder match... he made it work.

Christian was told to be a jealous bitch... he made it work.

Christian was told to be a Creepy Little Bastard... he made it work.

Christian was told to turn on Chris Jericho and be Trish Stratus' bitch... he made it work.

What'd Christian get for all his loyal service to the company? He got his feud with John Cena taken away from him and was sent to Smackdown where they didn't give him air time.

Christian has gotten over with the crowd time after time after time after time after time... And what has he gotten the ECW Championship? Fuck that. Christian is consistantly one of the most over members of the WWE and he's never gotten a legitimate shot at one of WWE's two major championships.

So you can't say the WWE pushes those that push themselves because that's bullshit. The WWE puts over who they want and has less than a passing intrest on whose over.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Yes, and the WWE no longer gives people chances to run with the ball. They push people they want in the main event and to hell with anyone that gets genuine reactions from the crowd and gets themselves over...

Just ask... Mr. Kennedy, Carlito, Christian, Elijah Burke, and Rob Van Dam... All five of them were super over with those in the WWE and the WWE stunted their growth or just flat out released them. Christian is the worst example of this.

Christian was told to be a vampire... he made it work.

Christian was told to be the goofy sidekick of Edge... he made it work.

Christian was told to be one of the new kings of the ladder match... he made it work.

Christian was told to be a jealous bitch... he made it work.

Christian was told to be a Creepy Little Bastard... he made it work.

Christian was told to turn on Chris Jericho and be Trish Stratus' bitch... he made it work.

What'd Christian get for all his loyal service to the company? He got his feud with John Cena taken away from him and was sent to Smackdown where they didn't give him air time.

Christian has gotten over with the crowd time after time after time after time after time... And what has he gotten the ECW Championship? Fuck that. Christian is consistantly one of the most over members of the WWE and he's never gotten a legitimate shot at one of WWE's two major championships.

So you can't say the WWE pushes those that push themselves because that's bullshit. The WWE puts over who they want and has less than a passing intrest on whose over.
Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with him not being loyal enough to WWE? I mean, he did jump to TNA like a spoiled brat...and then he came crawling back. He is going to get his run with the belt eventually, and deservedly so but there is a reason why WWE didn't give him the ball. And I will always assume Vince McMahon and co. know what the hell they are doing more than me.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:26 PM   #29
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Nobody has had an easier ride to the top in WWE than Randy Orton.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
and by the way, WWE isn't a failure either.
Their are levels of failure.

Did I ever say they were a financial failure? No.

Did I ever say they were a marketing failure? No.

Did I say they were a failure at utalizing their talent to their fullest abilities? Yes.

For that matter TNA isn't a failure either.

I started out my post by saying I like both products, I really do. That doesn't mean their aren't flaws, and those flaws is where he fails. You can be a success in many things and be a failure is one aspect of you buisness or life. For example...

Was Chris Benoit a failure in wrestling? No.

Was Chris Benoit a failure at getting over with the crowd? No.

Was Chris Benoit a failure at life? Yes.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:29 PM   #31
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Exactly. He was being cheered by default because he was going against heels. He could have been given [a variation of] the "anti-hero" gimmick (much like the one Edge has now, which is working pretty well) and it would have been better for him. The kind of face character he was given didn't suit him (because again, not everyone can play the same type of character) and it showed. Faces can still be badass, and that's the kind of face Randy Orton could play.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:30 PM   #32
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Exactly. He was being cheered by default because he was going against heels. He could have been given [a variation of] the "anti-hero" gimmick (much like the one Edge has now, which is working pretty well) and it would have been better for him. The kind of face character he was given didn't suit him (because again, not everyone can play the same type of character) and it showed. Faces can still be badass, and that's the kind of face Randy Orton could play.

Then he wasn't ready to be World Heavyweight Champion and the face of the company. My point is, if you want to be the World Champion and face of the company, you need to be able to do whatever is asked of you.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:31 PM   #33
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Did I say they were a failure at utalizing their talent to their fullest abilities? Yes
to me that's an opinion though. and I'm not going to take anything away from your opinion, but while you may think Christian was under used (and I do too) somebody like Steele doesn't.

While as when you talk financial stuff, there's actual numbers to back it up.

But yea, I'll agree that the WWE has failed at using certain guys to thier fullest potential, but somebody can easily argue that
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:31 PM   #34
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So you can't say the WWE pushes those that push themselves because that's bullshit. The WWE puts over who they want and has less than a passing intrest on whose over.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:33 PM   #35
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Over with the internet =/= over with the wider wrestling audience (and bringing in new viewers)
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:34 PM   #36
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Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with him not being loyal enough to WWE? I mean, he did jump to TNA like a spoiled brat...and then he came crawling back. He is going to get his run with the belt eventually, and deservedly so but there is a reason why WWE didn't give him the ball. And I will always assume Vince McMahon and co. know what the hell they are doing more than me.
He was loyal for approximatly 7 years to the WWE. He jumped to TNA because he wanted to be in movies, have a home life, and because the WWE fucked him over as far as a push was concerned. For 7 years Christian did everything to advance himself in the WWE and they didn't reward him with a push towards the title. I'm not even talking about a run with the title, he didn't even have a feud for the title. He had a triple threat match at Vengeance 2005 for the title, and to the best of my knowledge that was his only title shot.

Vince McMahon is a bright guy, but he also has a lot of antiquated notions that prevent him from being the genius he once was (if he ever was one). I don't presume to know more about wrestling than him, but when I see obvious flaws I question them. Just like George W. Bush knows more about politics than I do but when I saw him doing questionable things I questioned them.
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:34 PM   #37
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Also in regards to Carlito and RVD, do you think WWE might have given them more if they both didn't constantly bitch and moan and bury the company?
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:34 PM   #38
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Then he wasn't ready to be World Heavyweight Champion and the face of the company. My point is, if you want to be the World Champion and face of the company, you need to be able to do whatever is asked of you.
Should people really have expected him to be ready for that role at the time, though? He was given the ball during the "Triple H Era" on RAW (not a knock, as I love Trips). Could anyone really have been expected to come out over "that" Triple H (especially with that kind of character)?
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:35 PM   #39
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He was loyal for approximatly 7 years to the WWE. He jumped to TNA because he wanted to be in movies, have a home life, and because the WWE fucked him over as far as a push was concerned. For 7 years Christian did everything to advance himself in the WWE and they didn't reward him with a push towards the title. I'm not even talking about a run with the title, he didn't even have a feud for the title. He had a triple threat match at Vengeance 2005 for the title, and to the best of my knowledge that was his only title shot.

Vince McMahon is a bright guy, but he also has a lot of antiquated notions that prevent him from being the genius he once was (if he ever was one). I don't presume to know more about wrestling than him, but when I see obvious flaws I question them. Just like George W. Bush knows more about politics than I do but when I saw him doing questionable things I questioned them.
Christian was/is over, but that doesn't mean he deserves a main event spot. Christian is very good, but he isn't so special that he deserves anything in regards to a main event push. Hell, he was always in good storylines and had a prominent spot on the card. When he returned, he was the face of a brand!
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:37 PM   #40
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Was Chris Benoit a failure at life? Yes.

REALLY?

The whole Chris Benoit Murder/Suicide was a cover up. Don't even get us started on that...
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