WWE's business decisions

[Kane Knight]

I've recently been reminded a lot of the music industry when thinking about WWE. You see, despite a loss of audience, a loss of advertising revenue, and a loss of ticket sales (barring events like Wrestlemania, which are always freaking huge), they've managed to turn a tidy profit and maintain a good stock value. Of course, they've done so by turning to other markets. I think WWE films was yet another attempt to do that, though poor sales of the Condemned sure kiboshed that. Merchandising has been a larger part of their profits than ever before, near as I can tell. A large portion of that is children. And that's where I'm reminded of the music industry. Hell, I could expand it to the film industry, at least in terms of theaters and DVDs and such. You see, a couple of decades ago, the music industry decided that the way to target families were through their kids. It was seen as a ripe source of income, especially when "buy me that!" syndrome is included in the list of factors. They were not as successful as they wanted telling adults what they wanted, so a more impressionable market was sought. Well, let's fast-forward a couple of decades: The RIAA is now suing people because they are desperate. They've continued to try and aim at the youth market, but they've seen a rapid drop in interest. So desperate are they that they are asking for nine thousand dollars per song "illegally" downloaded, even if they cannot prove the person did it, even if the person doesn't have any stolen music, and sometimes, even if the person is dead. Yes, the RIAA is even suing infants and dead people. Like I said, the MPAA has also come into the same sort of situation. While they're still profitable for now, there's been a lot of problems maintaining that profit line. These are industries who are demonstrating the final desperate acts businesses often go through before they fail. WWE's in the stage now where they're pandering to children at the expense of other markets. For now, the benefits outweight the losses. I say for now because a lot of businesses have gone in such a direction, and it rarely turns out well longterm. That's not to say that WWE has never marketed to children before. I would never pretend to ignore the 80s and the affect Hulk Hogan's appeal to kids had on the boom that ensued. Then again, it worked then. It worked with the record industry, it worked with the film industry. With that in mind, do you believe that the current direction of WWE is sustainable? Do you think that the negative stigmas associated with wrestling will prevent a wider child audience from "picking up the slack?" Do you think WWE will continue to maintain profits successfully, despite the failings of others who have tried the same?

[Kane Knight]

Okay, I have no fucking clue what's up with this site today. Things keep fucking up. That was NOT one big wall of text when I made it.

[jcmoorehead]

Meh I stilll read it. It's a really interesting subject for discussion. I have to ask though, how much does WWE make from it's overseas markets places like Australia and Europe could play a big part there in terms of profits and keeping them going.

I'll let more intelligent people then me answer the main question at hand because I really can't seem to type out an answer here that doesnt make me look like an idiot. To keep it simple though I believe that yes it can sustain itself and maintain those profits however I think it's going to be a rough journey for them.

[Chavo Classic]

Unfortunately, it's a bankable idea. The success of Cena and teenage-girl-friendly Jeff Hardy are the strongest indicators that the youth market might be the way for the E to go. As you've pointed out, Merchandise sales keep the E's profits afloat and whether it be DVDs, foam hands or wrestling figures, the most likely target for this market are kids and smarks.

Now I've said before that Smarks are a finite market. There's only so many DVDs and action figures a smark will buy before either a) their interest simmers or b) they've bought everything. Coupled with the fact that we make up the small minority, then it's not a great demographic to try to appease. Ask ECW.

However, kids will always be around and will always have their parent's disposable income to spend. It would be wise from the E's standpoint to cater their products and their attention towards this area instead because it's a market that cannot become saturated. This is probably one of the reasons that WWE's television is probably as about as child-friendly as it's been for years at the moment. This trend will probably continue.

[Kane Knight]

I also wonder how well they can market to children longterm when their primary product airs so late at night for children to be watching.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Chavo Classic Now I've said before that Smarks are a finite market. There's only so many DVDs and action figures a smark will buy before either a) their interest simmers or b) they've bought everything. Coupled with the fact that we make up the small minority, then it's not a great demographic to try to appease. Ask ECW. However, kids will always be around and will always have their parent's disposable income to spend. It would be wise from the E's standpoint to cater their products and their attention towards this area instead because it's a market that cannot become saturated. This is probably one of the reasons that WWE's television is probably as about as child-friendly as it's been for years at the moment. This trend will probably continue.

If it cannot become saturated, one wonders why major entertainment franchises are straining so hard with similar marketing. I mean, it's nice to say they'll always be around, but it doesn't guarantee that they'll always be around and spending it on you. The youth market is fairly fickle, and if WWE has demonstrated anything, it's that it's not very adaptive.

[Chavo Classic]

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead I have to ask though, how much does WWE make from it's overseas markets places like Australia and Europe could play a big part there in terms of profits and keeping them going.

The tours are generally successes. Europe usually sells out and there are major gains in Merchandise sales as everyone wants a souvenir of the night the big time American game came to their town.

However, the WWE can't go jump across the Atlantic or Pacific every week to boost their profits. It's a gruelling schedule for the roster to be put through, and it must cost a fair amount too. This is perhaps one of the reasons why a UK territory was being discussed up until recently. Build up a local, low-cost roster and send over the occassional big name to hype up interest.

It's better in the long run the WWE attend to problems at home. The overseas markets, because they are visited less frequently, will always be there.

[KYR]

Australian shows are always a sell-out. There is another tour scheduled in a few months time. With the huge distances between the cities in Australia and the harsh logistics of putting on these shows here, the WWE would make no money from the ticket sales alone.

It's the proceeds from the merchandising sales (both during and after the tours) that make it profitable. It's all about keeping your product in the face of the consumer.

[Chavo Classic]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight If it cannot become saturated, one wonders why major entertainment franchises are straining so hard with similar marketing. I mean, it's nice to say they'll always be around, but it doesn't guarantee that they'll always be around and spending it on you. The youth market is fairly fickle, and if WWE has demonstrated anything, it's that it's not very adaptive.

That's true. It's not enough to say 'hey, kids, look at this wrasslin over here' and expect an influx of attention and dollars. But at the moment that's probably the direction they're going at.
In the spectrum between the gimmicky early 90s and thr Attitude of the late 90s, they're probably leaning more towards the former. This is their problem. Just because it worked then, doesn't mean it'll work again. They need to get on an entirely different tangent, aiming to appeal to the new iphone generation rather than their previous SNES generation.

[Chavo Classic]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I also wonder how well they can market to children longterm when their primary product airs so late at night for children to be watching.

Maybe when Smackdown leaves CW, we'll see an earlier change in scheduling. You heard it speculated here first.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Chavo Classic The tours are generally successes. Europe usually sells out and there are major gains in Merchandise sales as everyone wants a souvenir of the night the big time American game came to their town. However, the WWE can't go jump across the Atlantic or Pacific every week to boost their profits. It's a gruelling schedule for the roster to be put through, and it must cost a fair amount too. This is perhaps one of the reasons why a UK territory was being discussed up until recently. Build up a local, low-cost roster and send over the occassional big name to hype up interest. It's better in the long run the WWE attend to problems at home. The overseas markets, because they are visited less frequently, will always be there.

It's been reported several times lately that attendences were down in the UK shows, with tickets not selling out. While the numbers are still good, it really does demonstrate that the more they go overseas, the less successful each tour will be. It's a factor of diminishing returns.

Originally Posted by Chavo Classic That's true. It's not enough to say 'hey, kids, look at this wrasslin over here' and expect an influx of attention and dollars. But at the moment that's probably the direction they're going at. In the spectrum between the gimmicky early 90s and thr Attitude of the late 90s, they're probably leaning more towards the former. This is their problem. Just because it worked then, doesn't mean it'll work again. They need to get on an entirely different tangent, aiming to appeal to the new iphone generation rather than their previous SNES generation.

Part of the problem is they're repeating that generation entirely, which is the equivalent of trying to market the 80s to a 00s generation.

Anyway, the kids will enjoy it, at least short term. But if Vince gets complacent, as he always seems to do when things "Go Well," then we could see problems for WWE down the line.

Originally Posted by Chavo Classic Maybe when Smackdown leaves CW, we'll see an earlier change in scheduling. You heard it speculated here first.

I still say Raw should be moved to 7 PM so that the kiddies can see Cena. It makes no sense to market a 9 PM cable show to children. Though the fact that they market stuff to the kids and then feature scantily clad whores, incest, racism, etc. still kinda baffles me.

One of the interesting things about merch is the number of people who seem to buy it who have little or no interest in the product itself. It's especially true of the video games, but there are a ton of people out there who buy the T-Shirts and such without knowing fuck all about the programming. It just looks cool or whatever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

One thing to take into account is the attention spans of children and youth. How long will it be before they turn on the TV, and choose not to watch RAW but Disney shit? Or decide to watch an R-rated movie, instead.

Of course, I guess the idea is that you get in new fans to replace these ones that are leaving, but to make sure you do this, you actually need to market to kids and retards. Attention spans fade, you really need to replace them; so of course you market to do this.

I think it would be so much more effective if the WWE focused on the older demographic, and let kids fall into line. Kids found the WWE during the Attitude era, along with their parents, uncles and friends. Nowadays, it's a very isolated thing being a wrestling fan.

The problem with making a more adult product, is that parents might not want their kids watching it, but does any parent want their kid watching the current WWE, either? It's sexist, violent, insulting to the intelligence, and distracting now that it's got more time a week than ever.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Noid One thing to take into account is the attention spans of children and youth. How long will it be before they turn on the TV, and choose not to watch RAW but Disney shit? Or decide to watch an R-rated movie, instead.

And, in fact, when Raw is put up against that kind of shit, it gets slaughtered by them.

I think it would be so much more effective if the WWE focused on the older demographic, and let kids fall into line. Kids found the WWE during the Attitude era, along with their parents, uncles and friends. Nowadays, it's a very isolated thing being a wrestling fan.

Well, depends on what you call older, but I mean, WWE even mentions on screen when it's number one in males 18-34. It's kind of funny that they keep pointing it out, but market to a much younger audience.

The problem with making a more adult product, is that parents might not want their kids watching it, but does any parent want their kid watching the current WWE, either? It's sexist, violent, insulting to the intelligence, and distracting now that it's got more time a week than ever.

Well, I mean, to an extent, there's already this issue (As you mentioned). I mean, I'd have a lot of trouble letting my kids watch the "Kiss My Ass Club," an incestuous couple (No offense to the awesomeness of Burchill or the Hotness of Katie), and so on. Not only that, but when I watched the first episodes of Raw and Smackdown! in HD, I noticed that both were showing adverts for Mass Effect (The game that's getting controversy for "virtual orgasmic rape") and several of the new R-Rated movies. I mean, these are the sort of advertisements I'd probably think twice before showing my hypothetical kids programming that ran with that shit between it. Granted, you can skip the ads, but if they're marketing to kids and then showing ads for adult-themed items, it is kind of worrisome.

And then there's the whole Chris Benoit thing, the current generation of "steroid" scandals, and so on. I'm not sure I'd like my kids cheering for Batista or Cena, given the bulked up physiques probably send the wrong messages in terms of steroids. I mean, I don't give a shit what a bunch of aging carnies do to look impressive, but it's not the sort of thing I really want my kids aspiring to. And to some extent, you can talk to them, but there's only so much you can do.

Fortunately, wrestling's not the "in" thing, so it's less likely that kids are feeling compelled to watch, and I do wonder how much wrestling merch is being sold to kids with little to no interest in wrestling itself.

[KYR]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I still say Raw should be moved to 7 PM so that the kiddies can see Cena. It makes no sense to market a 9 PM cable show to children.

Fair comment. Here in Australia RAW/Smackdown! air at 3.30pm/4.30pm (depending on the time zone) just in time for the kids to come home from school. It's then repeated on Saturday mornings. Great way to tap into the kiddie demographic and the parents' pockets.

The weekly shows are then repeated two hours later (5.30pm/6.30pm) on FOX+2 so the next of the 18 -34 year old demographic can get their fill as well.

There is no doubt that WWE programming is seriously popular in Australia and is reflected in the fact that it is aired on the highest rating pay TV channel.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Know Your Role Fair comment. Here in Australia RAW/Smackdown! air at 3.30pm/4.30pm (depending on the time zone) just in time for the kids to come home from school. It's then repeated on Saturday mornings. Great way to tap into the kiddie demographic and the parents' pockets. The weekly shows are then repeated two hours later (5.30pm/6.30pm) on FOX+2 so the next of the 18 -34 year old demographic can get their fill as well. There is no doubt that WWE programming is seriously popular in Australia and is reflected in the fact that it is aired on the highest rating pay TV channel.

Yeah, the WWE is quite popular in Australia. I want to add "sadly," but I suppose as a wrestling fan I should be happy.

FOX8 calls itself "Home of the WWE," and it was kind of surprising to see the WWE really heavily promoted in its Christmas line-up. On weekends, the WWE also gets the lead-in from The Simpsons marathons.

When SmackDown! was cancelled, a friend of mine told me that FOX8 was constantly petitioned, and that they actually lost numbers with whatever they put in SmackDown!'s place.

The WWE makes a lot of money from us as a nation, I think. I would not be surprised to see them one day tape a RAW or SmackDown! over here.

[Dave Youell]

Originally Posted by Noid Yeah, the WWE is quite popular in Australia. I want to add "sadly," but I suppose as a wrestling fan I should be happy. FOX8 calls itself "Home of the WWE," and it was kind of surprising to see the WWE really heavily promoted in its Christmas line-up. On weekends, the WWE also gets the lead-in from The Simpsons marathons. When SmackDown! was cancelled, a friend of mine told me that FOX8 was constantly petitioned, and that they actually lost numbers with whatever they put in SmackDown!'s place. The WWE makes a lot of money from us as a nation, I think. I would not be surprised to see them one day tape a RAW or SmackDown! over here.

The logistics of moving that set all that way are scary to think about, heck i don't know what they are going to do for the UK tapings in April

Apart from stick a phone box and bus on the entrace way, again.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I also wonder how well they can market to children longterm when their primary product airs so late at night for children to be watching.

Come on, do you really think that many parents are going to keep their kids from staying up late to watch what they want? I mean even I managed to stay up behind my parents' backs to watch Prime Time Wrestling in fourth grade.

[GD]

They are making a WWE magazine for kids.

[RVDmark]

The problem is that they are marketing some stuff to kids (the action figures, Cena, wwe magazine) and then marketing to the adults and older teens at the same time (playboy, DX, some of the jokes). However they just annoy / confuse both parties.

On the one hand you have the older group, mostly like us, who hate the gimmicky gimmicks and the Cena factor. And the fact that they market playboy on a show primarily for kids is a bit, well, weird.

[RVDmark]

That said if they would lets ECW get extreme with the talking, alllow swearing and brief nudity (if we have to have it, it may as well be proper nudity), it would be great I think. Its not like aiming a 1 hour show to the elder market is going to hurt them. Taking the reigns off the wrestlers and letting them shoot a bit more cant get them injured either.

[NeanderCarl]

WWE seem, for the most part, to market Raw towards an older audience and SmackDown towards a younger crowd... which would be fine, if not for the kneejerks. As soon as a guy gets over on SmackDown, they want to bring him to Raw, which serves to piss off the more mature crowd watching Raw who don't want to see kiddie faves like Cena.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by RVDmark That said if they would lets ECW get extreme with the talking, alllow swearing and brief nudity (if we have to have it, it may as well be proper nudity), it would be great I think. Its not like aiming a 1 hour show to the elder market is going to hurt them. Taking the reigns off the wrestlers and letting them shoot a bit more cant get them injured either.

It used to be that Raw was edgier and Smackdown, being on netowrk, was more "child" friendly. Now it seems like they nerfed all three shows.