Tables, Ladders, & Podcast - Current episode: #74 (October 22, 2014)

[Poit]

http://s22.postimg.org/a4r7yxkcx/TLP_VERSION_2_small.jpg

Starring: Narcissus, Jabba, Nowhere Man, Afterlife, & Poit.

Current episode: #74 (October 22, 2014) (http://tablesladderspodcast.podbean.com/e/tables-ladders-podcast-74-102214/)

Covering NXT, Impact, Smackdown, Raw, and Main Event.

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[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

The first in a series of weekly podcasts in association with tpww.net, covering the last editions of Impact, Smackdown, and Raw.

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[#1-norm-fan]

"WWE continuity is like the wrestling equivalent of creationism."

lol

[BizarroKing]

What time do you record?

[Afterlife]

I think we started around 7pm EST.

[Nark Order]

Gonna czech out podbean soon and see what we can do to get the audio version going.

[Savio]

Hassan was pretty damn good on the mic

[#1-norm-fan]

Hassan was pretty damn good on the mic

Seriously. I think Nowhere Man made it seem like he was just in the right gimmick at the right time. The man could cut a promo.

[Heisenberg]

Listened to the first 30-40 minutes so far, then had to exit my car. Loved the shout out for Curry Man and Shark Boy. Will continue this later, good stuff.

[#1-norm-fan]

And now we hit "Wade Barrett is better than Randy Orton in every single way"...


Aaaaand you lose me.

[Savio]

The show would benefit if it had a "Devils Advocate"

[CSL]

And now we hit "Wade Barrett is better than Randy Orton in every single way"...


oofah

[#1-norm-fan]

Wrestling blasphemy there.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

The show would benefit if it had a "Devils Advocate"
I expected Narc to be the resident anti-TNA guy, but once we got him to sit down and watch a few episodes, he actually enjoyed it.

[Nark Order]

Well, there's still stuff I'm not "on board with" as far as TNA is concerned but it isn't "lolTNA" like I originally thought. Also, Sammy and I are polar opposites on JBL.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I know you disagreed with us on Hogan's role on TV. You seemed to approve of most other things in TNA, though.

[#1-norm-fan]

TNA is like the AFL if the AFL were actually more entertaining than the NFL.

It would still only be the AFL and nowhere near the level of the NFL. You just can't compete. No matter how hard you try. They just aren't at the same level and that's that.

[Shisen Kopf]

Should I tape this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Tdkc60cassette.jpg/250px-Tdkc60cassette.jpg

[#1-norm-fan]

TNA really does try harder and put forth a better product creatively than WWE. WWE has the mainstream attention on lock though and the more talented roster but as they've proven over recent years, they don't need to try.

[#1-norm-fan]

Should I tape this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Tdkc60cassette.jpg/250px-Tdkc60cassette.jpg

That's a lot of cassettes (3). Tough call.

[Nowhere Man]

And now we hit "Wade Barrett is better than Randy Orton in every single way"...


Aaaaand you lose me.

Orton is serviceable at best in the ring, his promos are boring and all sound the same, his middle-rope DDT looks more and more contrived every time he does it, and he looks like a shaved orange monkey.

[#1-norm-fan]

Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

He's not a master of the mic by any means but he's fucking stellar at everything else. He's very close to a prototypical sports entertainment star. Barrett is still unproven. He definitely wins on the "able to lay off the drugs" aspect though.

[Shisen Kopf]

That's a lot of cassettes (3). Tough call.

I have a120 minute tape with the ghostbusters song that my dad taped off the radio for me back in 1984. Could probably tape over that.

[#1-norm-fan]

You'd still be an hour short. This is quite the investment.

[Shisen Kopf]

Well damn. They need to shorten the show to 30 mins tops. But I suppose it gives me something to do while I'm playing Atari.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

If you're an Orton fan, you better strap yourself in for a bumpy ride, if we have the same line-up for each episode. Most of us can't stand him.

[Savio]

Ladies love Orton.

[Nowhere Man]

Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

He's not a master of the mic by any means but he's fucking stellar at everything else. He's very close to a prototypical sports entertainment star. Barrett is still unproven. He definitely wins on the "able to lay off the drugs" aspect though.


I'm really not seeing it, man. His moveset is unremarkable with the exception of the fact that a lot of it looks sloppy and weak. And his 'psychology' seems to be "let the other guy wrestle most of the match, then pop up and do a quick 5 moves of doom, sell a little bit more, then do a suprise RKO" in virtually every match. And his voice is slow, robotic, and awkward on the mic.

Barrett actually looks like he's doing damage out there, and is a much better talker. And he also doesn't keep getting busted for drugs.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I also fail to see this magnetic pyschology that Orton supposedly has. I am unable to fathom why the audience still give him reactions, most of the time.

[CSL]

Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

He's not a master of the mic by any means but he's fucking stellar at everything else. He's very close to a prototypical sports entertainment star. Barrett is still unproven. He definitely wins on the "able to lay off the drugs" aspect though.

pretty much this only I think he gets a bit of unnecessary stick on the promo front. He's possibly the most "complete" package of the current generation. If John Cena hadn't have been born, he'd probably have been this generations "the guy" for some time now.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Oh, it's on.

[CSL]

it baffles me that people don't see this, the guy is so good it's ridiculous. "The prototypical sports entertainment star" as #1-wwf-fan puts it is pretty much the perfect way to describe him.

[#1-norm-fan]

Jabba/Nowhere - CSL/Fan battle royale.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

It's weird that the two opposing camps have literally zero common ground on this guy.

It's like we're in the Discussion Forum.

[Nark Order]

Nobody on the show even remotely appreciates Orton.

[Savio]

I also fail to see this magnetic pyschology that Orton supposedly has. I am unable to fathom why the audience still give him reactions, most of the time.
Because ladies think he is hot.

[#1-norm-fan]

If John Cena hadn't have been born, he'd probably have been this generations "the guy" for some time now.

Also, that.

As far as being naturally over... regardless of the storyline you're in or the jobbing you've done... Orton is second only to Cena.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Nobody on the show even remotely appreciates Orton.
We'll have to get somebody in to do a guest spot each episode, defending whatever atrocity Orton committed that week.

[CSL]

It's weird that the two opposing camps have literally zero common ground on this guy.

It's like we're in the Discussion Forum.

so concede ground bastard. Or we're gonna have to deconstruct every single sentence, referencing various articles and videos for each and every individual word, thus rendering the entire process entirely brain numbing and futile yet it will still go on for 7 pages.

Because ladies think he is hot.

if somebody doesn't like him for whatever reason etc I understand (ish) but you're deluded if you think that's why he gets the reaction he does

[Nark Order]

I just don't think he's good. Dunno.

[Shisen Kopf]

I think Orton was good back in 09-11 now he's stale and he works better as a heel. Don't know why all the vitriol for him though. It's not like he's Cena.

[#1-norm-fan]

As a face he was fucking money in the Christian feud and in the Mark Henry feud. If you want a good example of how amazing Orton is in the ring just look at those Mark Henry matches. The one where he lost the title and the Hell in a Cell rematch. Probably the best matches Mark Henry has ever had. I can't even think of a close third. Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome. It was awesome storytelling. Storytelling you can't find most of the time in today's WWE where every match is basically the same.

[Savio]

if somebody doesn't like him for whatever reason etc I understand (ish) but you're deluded if you think that's why he gets the reaction he does
Its why the ladies pop for him.

[Shisen Kopf]

The show would benefit if it had a "Devils Advocate"

Yeah they are all so agreeable. If only someone here was disagreeable but always right about everything. Hmmm, wait a minute!

[CSL]

Its why the ladies pop for him.

some of them, absolutely

[el bobbo]

I have a120 minute tape with the ghostbusters song that my dad taped off the radio for me back in 1984. Could probably tape over that.

Don't tape over that. Who knows when you're going to here it on the FM radio again.

[Afterlife]

Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today.

This is baseless and borderline retarded.

He's not a master of the mic by any means but he's fucking stellar at everything else. He's very close to a prototypical sports entertainment star.

"Not a master", as in "terrible". And stellar at what, exactly, and in what way? If you mean "Stellar at putting on the same match for 5 years with the same painfully forced moves and the same unimaginative formula", then yeah, that's pretty darn impressive.


Barrett is still unproven. He definitely wins on the "able to lay off the drugs" aspect though.

Also at being able to speak like a person, and at putting signature moves into a match without the match consisting of nothing BUT signature moves.

it baffles me that people don't see this, the guy is so good it's ridiculous. "The prototypical sports entertainment star" as #1-wwf-fan puts it is pretty much the perfect way to describe him.

It baffles me that this is not sarcasm.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have been bored by Orton in the past, but when you hear people in the business who know their shit talk, they pretty much all drool over what Orton does. And you can't argue that he is ridiculously over. Whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind it, smart money would be to bottle whatever it is Orton has and try to make money off it.

I've heard people talk about how Orton has been "phoning it in" lately, but the guy hasn't really had too much of a program to work with. And that's probably largely in part due to him being one bad test away from being fired and becoming TNA's star attraction. Now it seems like there is more of a plan to use Orton constructively, and he's been on fire these past couple of weeks as he's been put with Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan, Kane and The Shield. I don't think the company should put a World Title on him, but I do think that he could be used to get a World Champion like a Dolph Ziggler over. People are saying that Orton vs. Sheamus is probably going to happen at SummerSlam, but I kind of think that would be a bad move, because Orton is so over I can't see people cheering Sheamus over him. Ziggler vs. Orton makes pretty good sense as a World Title match, though.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I agree with everything Afterlife said, but I have no intention of fruitlessly arguing against the tide of, what I perceive to be, blindness.

[Juan]

I appreciate all the hard work guys, but I don't think I can listen to it. I disagree with 99% of Jabba's and Sammy's wrestling opinions so I'd probably start pulling out my own hair halfway thru. Keep it up tho :y:

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I feel exactly the same way about podcasts where I disagree with everything the guys say. Nature of the beast.

[Nowhere Man]

The whole Orton thing is honestly really frustrating to me, because I legitimately do not see what everyone sees in this guy. I've never seen a Randy Orton match that's had me on the edge of my seat, or heard a Randy Orton promo that's made me want to fork over money for the Pay-Per-View. And yet, everyone keeps going on and on about how great he is in the ring.

But what exactly does he do that's so great? He doesn't have a particularly good mat game, he's not agile enough to do high-flying stuff, he's not big enough to have a convincing power-move set, and most of his signatures look sloppy and weak (and I fucking hate that elevated DDT; seriously, all you have to do is put your feet down--gravity is doing half the work for you). So he's just got this bland prototypical "WWE Main Event" style that doesn't really excel in any one particular area. Granted, he's not glaringly bad at that apart from the occasional horrendously botched spot, but if all he's good at is the inoffensive formulaic lowest-common-denominator style, then I don't see why I should want to see him over someone who actually brings something unique into the ring.

And as has been said before, he's awful on the mic.

So what exactly am I missing here? How is this guy getting massive pops and being "naturally over" for, from what I can tell, no goddamn reason? I'm legitimately confused by it, and have been pretty much ever since he first showed up.

[#1-norm-fan]

Anyone who bitches about the way Randy Orton sounds when he cuts a promo better not be a Cody Rhodes fan.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I love Cody Rhodes on the mic, but not that fond of Orton's promos. It's not that he's bad. He's pretty confident and when he's not talking...slowly...all...the...time there's absolutely nothing atrocious about him. He's a clear talker and could get the point across and fill the time with a mic. Rhodes is really great on the mic. Some of his stuff has been fantastic over the years, and not just as deranged Cody. His more cheeky stuff recently has been decent.

[#1-norm-fan]

I love Cody Rhodes on the mic, but not that fond of Orton's promos. It's not that he's bad. He's pretty confident and when he's not talking...slowly...all...the...time there's absolutely nothing atrocious about him.

...

So it bothers you when someone is taaalkinnng sllowwwwllyyy allll thheeee timmmme onnn theeee miiiiiiiic, huuuuuh?

Yeah, hate when Orton does it. So glaaaaad Cody dooooesn't taaaalk slooooow ooonnnn theeeee miiiiiic liiiiiiike thiiiiiissssss.

[Nowhere Man]

Cody has a glorious mustache, so that's a major point in his favor.

[Lock Jaw]

Randy Orton needs to shake things up and become a cocky heel who can talk at more than three words per minute. Grow his hair out too.

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[Mr. Nerfect]

...

So it bothers you when someone is taaalkinnng sllowwwwllyyy allll thheeee timmmme onnn theeee miiiiiiiic, huuuuuh?

Yeah, hate when Orton does it. So glaaaaad Cody dooooesn't taaaalk slooooow ooonnnn theeeee miiiiiic liiiiiiike thiiiiiissssss.

But Cody doesn't... :wtf:

Maybe when he was a deranged heel. It worked for that character. You're comparing Coke and Pepsi.

[James Steele]

...

So it bothers you when someone is taaalkinnng sllowwwwllyyy allll thheeee timmmme onnn theeee miiiiiiiic, huuuuuh?

Yeah, hate when Orton does it. So glaaaaad Cody dooooesn't taaaalk slooooow ooonnnn theeeee miiiiiic liiiiiiike thiiiiiissssss.

Yeah...what the fuck are you talking about? Cody doesn't talk slowly on the mic, and even when he was more "methodical" with the mask gimmick - he was still talking faster than Randy Orton.

[loopydate]

Finally finished this. Very entertaining listen, guys. Excited to hear future installments.

[#1-norm-fan]

But Cody doesn't... :wtf:

Maybe when he was a deranged heel. It worked for that character. You're comparing Coke and Pepsi.

Holy shit, what!? lol

Yes, he talked slow as fuck when he was doing the same gimmick that everyone praises as when he was at his best. The only time he was really getting significant mic time, by the way.

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You might as well call him "Cody Orton". If you can seriously watch that promo and praise Cody while bitching about Orton talking slow, it's the most blatant evidence of "I want to hate Orton so I will call anything he does a 'flaw' while ignoring when others do it." It's retarded. Consistency. Either hate when everyone does it or don't give a fuck about it at all. lol

P.S. Coke and Pepsi pretty much taste the exact same. So... yeah. Good analogy for what I'm saying. I'd even go a step further and say I'm comparing Coke and Coke. They're the exact same thing. They boooothhh taaaalk liiike thiiiiis yet somehow one is acceptable and the other is not.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Even if you had shown me Randy Orton as World Champion in 2004, I still wouldn't believe you if you had told me that Orton would eventually come a slow, methodical, cold-blooded badass known for being someone you just don't fuck with. Orton was a cocky, arrogant, braggart, more like a Dolph Ziggler than a Stone Cold Steve Austin when he originally rose to the top. Orton had to run away from Evolution when they turned on him because there was no way anyone would buy him being able to stand toe-to-toe with them. How things change?

[Schlomey]

I would love to join the wrestling podcast. I have the credentials & my resume should arrive shortly.

[#1-norm-fan]

Orton has been around long enough while a bunch of guys with no personality have come and failed. That's a big part of the reason why he's believable as a guy you don't fuck with now. He got over in a more impressive era and now he's on a different level than the rest of the roster.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Holy shit, what!? lol

Yes, he talked slow as fuck when he was doing the same gimmick that everyone praises as when he was at his best. The only time he was really getting significant mic time, by the way.

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You might as well call him "Cody Orton". If you can seriously watch that promo and praise Cody while bitching about Orton talking slow, it's the most blatant evidence of "I want to hate Orton so I will call anything he does a 'flaw' while ignoring when others do it." It's retarded. Consistency. Either hate when everyone does it or don't give a fuck about it at all. lol

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If you can't tell the difference in the pacing, I feel sorry for you.

I don't even feel that Orton is a bad promo -- I've explained that. I just can't remember too many great ones from recently, whereas I quite enjoy Cody Rhodes' mic work. You also have to keep in mind that they are playing different characters. A promo choice for one character might work and it may not work for another. Orton's character is that he's a psychopath who knows how good he is. Rhodes was playing a psychopath, but one that was ashamed of his own face.

Even if their promo...styles...were...exactly...the same -- you have to put them into the context of characters. Kane doing an evil laugh makes sense. If Curtis Axel tried to do an evil laugh next week, it'd just seem odd and out of place.

You're going to interpret this as "Everybody loves Cody Rhodes, blah blah blah, Cody's the best promo ever, blah blah blah." I've seen Rhodes make some odd choices on the mic trying to find something that works, but his promo style is always changing and evolving, depending on what character he is playing. Also, he's just not as slow as Randy Orton, so there. And it's a matter of preference. If you hang onto every word Orton is saying, good for you -- but don't tell others that their preference of Cody Rhodes is wrong because you don't understand the differences.

Deranged Cody was brilliant, by the way, because it was an evolved character. It came from an event and Rhodes soared with it. You could hear the hurt as his voice cracked, but the character actually had some more light-hearted moments, as in when he would try to get Booker T to put the bag on his head. It added heavyweight presence to a guy who had been doing a rehashed narcissist gimmick, and cutting perfectly fine promos in that role, too.

[#1-norm-fan]

... Did you listen to either of those promos!?!?!?

At BEST for Cody, they're on the same exact stride. lol

And if you wanna try to go with "Well... it fit his character but doesn't fit Randy's", they're both justified within their methodical characters and both (At least I think with Cody's case. I can't remember much from him on the mic lately.) have cut faster-paced promos when the character saw fit.

I don't mind either one for their slow delivery. But like I said, you gotta be consistent. And if you can watch those two promos and find Rhodes to be acceptable and Orton to be somehow flawed in it, I can't see how you just aren't just set in your way.

[#1-norm-fan]

The more I think about it, I seriously feel like Rhodes could have gotten his delivery style during that time FROM Orton.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rhodes has learned a lot from Orton. You see it in his ring style and, yes, he has cut "serious" promos. I just don't agree with you on the pacing. Rhodes is more pausing for dramatic effect and, you know, talking in sentences? Orton is pausing for dramatic effect, alright. In my opinion -- you can disagree, but don't go calling it inconsistent. As I said -- they're Coke and Pepsi.

[#1-norm-fan]

Actually the way he says every word the same, he sounds more like that character Will Ferrell did where he couldn't control the pitch or volume of his voice. Just with his pacing slowed down.

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[Mr. Nerfect]

Cody Rhodes would like: "Put that bag...over your head."

Randy Orton would be like: "Put...that bag...over...your head."

And that's exaggerating the pause for Rhodes.

[#1-norm-fan]

No...

Cody would be like: "Put that baaaag. Overr yourrr heead."

I'm not just referring to the pauses. I'm referring to the fact that he sooouuunnds like hee's sayyying thinnngs is slooowww moootionnn.

[Afterlife]

So, your argument is that when a character does something, it's just as a bad as when an inconsistent mess does something good?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Essentially.

[#1-norm-fan]

So, your argument is that when a character does something, it's just as a bad as when an inconsistent mess does something good?

... Well that didn't make any sense.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I can't think of a time I've agreed with a #1-wwf-fan post.

Just putting that out there.

[#1-norm-fan]

Clearly you should re-evaluate your views on wrestling then.

[#1-norm-fan]

Wait... So does that mean Afterlife's post DID make sense to you? You should explain it then.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I'm sorry, but you seem to be utterly wrong about everything you've ever allowed to travel from your brain to your keyboard.

Afterlife's post makes sense, but he's being intentionally convoluted, to better illustrate the absurdity of your stance.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm sorry, but you seem to be utterly wrong about everything you've ever allowed to travel from your brain to your keyboard.

Yet somehow Randy Orton continues to be a bigger star than nearly the entire roster.

I guess I'll go ahead and be "wrong" along with most of the fans and Vince McMahon on that one.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Feel free.

I'm not going to endlessly repeat the reasons, already given in this thread, that Orton is really bad at his job. It's a waste of time, because nobody's mind will be changed.

[Nowhere Man]

Yet somehow Randy Orton continues to be a bigger star than nearly the entire roster.


And the Michael Bay Transformers movies make hundreds of millions of dollars. "Popular" does not equate to "good."

[#1-norm-fan]

Praising one guy's slow motion promo style while bashing the exact same thing about another guy is fucking retarded.

What an absurd notion!

[#1-norm-fan]

And the Michael Bay Transformers movies make hundreds of millions of dollars. "Popular" does not equate to "good."

And there are definitely people who find whatever movie you probably swear is amazing to be a pile of shit. So clearly you're wrong there.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

People have already explained the differences between them.

Again, there's no point engaging you. I'm sure you're being sincere, but you're just wrong.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

And there are definitely people who find whatever movie you probably swear is amazing to be a pile of shit. So clearly you're wrong there.
What does that have to do with anything?

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm not going to endlessly repeat the reasons, already given in this thread, that Orton is really bad at his job. It's a waste of time, because nobody's mind will be changed.


I feel like CSL came up with this idea like 2 pages ago.

[Nowhere Man]

And there are definitely people who find whatever movie you probably swear is amazing to be a pile of shit. So clearly you're wrong there.

Those people are idiots with bad taste. So clearly you're wrong, period.

[#1-norm-fan]

People have already explained the differences between them.

Again, there's no point engaging you. I'm sure you're being sincere, but you're just wrong.


THEY'RE BOTH DOING IT BECAUSE IT FITS THEIR CHARACTER. YOU EITHER FIND IT ANNOYING OR YOU DON'T.

Jesus. lol

[Nark Order]

Randy Orton might be the lamest cause for an argument ever.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

THEY'RE BOTH DOING IT BECAUSE IT FITS THEIR CHARACTER. YOU EITHER FIND IT ANNOYING OR YOU DON'T.

Jesus. lol
You're not comprehending what anyone is saying, and your replies reflect this. You should probably tag out for CSL.

[Afterlife]

And there are definitely people who find whatever movie you probably swear is amazing to be a pile of shit. So clearly you're wrong there.

Way to miss 100% of the point. That is astonishing.

[#1-norm-fan]

Those people are idiots with bad taste.

We could very well enjoy the same movies. If we do, those who disagree with us are idiots with bad taste.

Unfortunately we differ on Randy Orton and you fall on the "idiots with bad taste" side.

[Nark Order]

Like we're using bandwidth arguing about Randy Orton.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's a fucking Tables, Ladders and Podcast troll party in here.

[Nowhere Man]

Randy Orton might be the lamest cause for an argument ever.

Y'know, I'm in agreement. I don't even seriously dislike the guy as much as Jabba or AL; I just don't see the appeal, nor do I accept "it's popular therefore it's good" as a valid argument.

[Nowhere Man]

It's a fucking Tables, Ladders and Podcast troll party in here.

Well, yeah, it's our show; naturally we're gonna be active in it and defend the points we make.

[Afterlife]

It's a fucking Tables, Ladders and Podcast troll party in here.

Wait... What? You're trying to be a troll, but you're announcing it? And you actually believe the things you're saying?

That's not trolling. That's just being obtuse.

[Nark Order]

It's a fucking Tables, Ladders and Podcast troll party in here.

You're being kind of silly. Why would we not interact in our own thread? And nobody is trolling.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

It's a "the point of this thread" party in here, plus one troll.

[#1-norm-fan]

I just don't see the appeal, nor do I accept "it's popular therefore it's good" as a valid argument.

It's not actually a good argument. But it worked in response to Jabba's "You're wrong" argument.

[Afterlife]

It's not actually a good argument. But it worked in response to Jabba's "You're wrong" argument.

Oh, clearly.

[#1-norm-fan]

I mean... "No, you're wrong" could have worked too I guess.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Marvel as my, admittedly ineffective and inaccurate, argument works.

[#1-norm-fan]

You're wrong.

[Afterlife]

I mean... "No, you're wrong" could have worked too I guess.

Not as well as considering information and assessing facts.

But, WHATEVER.

[#1-norm-fan]

Hey, not bad.

[#1-norm-fan]

Not as well as considering information and assessing facts.

But, WHATEVER.

No, YOU suck at assessing facts.

Man, I'm liking this strategy.

[Afterlife]

So, you're just gonna spiral out of control like a blazing biplane. Excellent.

[#1-norm-fan]

NOWWW PUTTTT THATTTT PAPERRR BAGGGG ONNNN YOURRR HEADDDDD.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Tune in every week, folks, as we continue to troll #1-wwf-fan with opinions we clearly don't believe in, in three hour podcast form.

[Nark Order]

To me he's very boring and predictable in the ring. The slow pace for a guy like him is just torture to the audience. Also, as stated, his promo work is pretty abysmal compared to others in the company.

I don't hate him or anything, it's just when people are huge marks for him I have a "What, really?" moment.

[Afterlife]

But Narc, people have said "but he's good". I don't think you see how flawless and informative that kind of argument really is.

[#1-norm-fan]

But Narc, people have said "but he's good". I don't think you see how flawless and informative that kind of argument really is.

Not nearly as flawless and informative as the "but you're wrong" response.

Flawless.

[Nark Order]

Well, if people say he's good then I'm in. I didn't know that.

[Afterlife]

Not nearly as flawless and informative as the "but you're wrong" response.

Flawless.

This is a most fascinating post. It implies that the reasoning behind what makes Orton a terrible professional wrestler had not yet been offered. A strange suggestion, given that numerous and prominent reasons have been given. Oddly, it is the "but he's good" crowd who has offered nothing but "he's the master of psychology" with no actual definitions or examples thereof. It's almost like there aren't any, and instead of making arguments to support your actual "Orton doesn't suck entertainment like a whirlpool gobbling a dingy" stance, you've now started attacking a notion that isn't really something the Anti-Orton people have said.

Most fascinating, indeed.

[#1-norm-fan]

This is a most fascinating post. It implies that the reasoning behind what makes Orton a terrible professional wrestler had not yet been offered.

Now let's explain.

You see: The reasoning behind "what makes Orton a terrible professional wrestler" has been offered.

Unfortunately, the reasoning behind what makes Orton a great professional wrestler has also been offered.

It's strange. Those two ideas seem to contradict themselves. It's almost like it's less of a "YOU'RE SO WRONG! NUH UH! ALL YOU'RE SAYING IS 'HE'S GOOD!'" issue and more of a you refuse to find any points on the latter opinion valid. As I've done with the former.

But yeah, resorting to "You're wrong! You're just not listening!" and ignoring the other side's reasoning is a great way to make yourself feel like your reasoning is somehow more valid.

[Afterlife]

So, you're just going to dance like a very desperate bear instead of responding. Got it.

[#1-norm-fan]

A strange suggestion, given that numerous and prominent reasons have been given. Oddly, it is the "but he's good" crowd who has offered nothing but "he's the master of psychology" with no actual definitions or examples thereof.

And this is the part where you just ignore the upcoming quotes and pretend what you just said is true to try to validate your point to yourself...

Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

As a face he was fucking money in the Christian feud and in the Mark Henry feud. If you want a good example of how amazing Orton is in the ring just look at those Mark Henry matches. The one where he lost the title and the Hell in a Cell rematch. Probably the best matches Mark Henry has ever had. I can't even think of a close third. Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome. It was awesome storytelling. Storytelling you can't find most of the time in today's WWE where every match is basically the same.

[Afterlife]

Now let's explain.

You see: The reasoning behind "what makes Orton a terrible professional wrestler" has been offered.

Unfortunately, the reasoning behind what makes Orton a great professional wrestler has also been offered.

It's strange. Those two ideas seem to contradict themselves. It's almost like it's less of a "YOU'RE SO WRONG! NUH UH! ALL YOU'RE SAYING IS 'HE'S GOOD!'" issue and more of a you refuse to find any points on the latter opinion valid. As I've done with the former.

But yeah, resorting to "You're wrong! You're just not listening!" and ignoring the other side's reasoning is a great way to make yourself feel like your reasoning is somehow more valid.

Also, the irony of starting this uselessness with "Let's explain" is fucking staggering.

[Nark Order]

Orton is also a known huge fucking asshole as well. He got Amy Weber, Palmer Cannon, and Ken Kennedy fired because he's a child. On top of that, he's fairly unreliable, as he's had a couple wellness violations. When I add these things to him not entertaining me, it becomes clear (to me at least) that this guy should not be invested in too much further.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

The one guy who can't get the hottest crowd of the year going? Nice.

[#1-norm-fan]

Randy Orton had to have raped your family for you to be this bitter about others liking him and force yourself to believe their reasoning is invalid.

[#1-norm-fan]

Orton is also a known huge fucking asshole as well. He got Amy Weber, Palmer Cannon, and Ken Kennedy fired because he's a child. On top of that, he's fairly unreliable, as he's had a couple wellness violations. When I add these things to him not entertaining me, it becomes clear (to me at least) that this guy should not be invested in too much further.

He is a huge unreliable douche who should probably not have too much stock put into his future. This is a true statement.

[#1-norm-fan]

He will and should however stay hovering around the main event though without putting him in major situations because he's a sure thing when you need a random great match on Raw from a guy that the crowd is gonna pop for.

[Nowhere Man]

I don't buy that Orton is a good 'psychologist' either.

"Psychology" is one of the most infuriatingly nebulous terms in the entire wrestling lexicon, and I've never seen anyone come to any sort of consensus on what it actually is.

Going by my personal definition of it, psychology is being able to come up with moves and spots specifically in response to whatever is happening in the course of the match, and the larger storyline. Y'know, doing what the match demands rather than what your 'signature' movelist prescribes.

Orton just kinda has the same match every night, going along the traditional 'main event' style formula. Sell for a little bit, then completely stop selling, hit some limp-armed clotheslines and then the falling powerslam (which admittedly is nice, but Goldust and Punk both did/do it better), hit that horrifically contrived and unconvincing elevated DDT, setup for the RKO, miss it, sell for maybe thirty more seconds, then hit the RKO. Every goddamn match. That's not 'psychology,' that's just a checklist.

So no, I really don't see Orton as a good ring psychologist.

[Afterlife]

And this is the part where you just ignore the upcoming quotes and pretend what you just said is true to try to validate your point to yourself...

Yeah? Let's see....

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
As a face he was fucking money in the Christian feud and in the Mark Henry feud. If you want a good example of how amazing Orton is in the ring just look at those Mark Henry matches. The one where he lost the title and the Hell in a Cell rematch. Probably the best matches Mark Henry has ever had. I can't even think of a close third. Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome. It was awesome storytelling. Storytelling you can't find most of the time in today's WWE where every match is basically the same.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?

[Nark Order]

#1wwf-fan Where would you list Triple H vs Randy Orton on a list of top Wrestlemania main events?

[#1-norm-fan]

#1wwf-fan Where would you list Triple H vs Randy Orton on a list of top Wrestlemania main events?

It was awful.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Can't blame Orton for that. Look at Triple H's horrendous record of Mania match quality.

[Afterlife]

Shitty promo guy, too.

[Nark Order]

He's been involved in some great angles, and he has had good matches, but he isn't the future of the company to me. That ship has sailed. He missed his golden opportunity IMO.

[#1-norm-fan]

So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?[/QUOTE]

A) Orton is more naturally over than Kane. Let's not kid ourselves. If neither is involved in anything interesting for 6 months, Orton gets a better pop. Not only entrance-wise but during his matches which is the more important thing. Orton can get a crowd going during a match like Kane cannot.

B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit". I also never mentioned anything about Christian's storyline. Or Henry being less generic. I was talking about the matches. Clearly. Have you resorted to putting words in my mouth AFTER QUOTING WHAT I SAID?

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't buy that Orton is a good 'psychologist' either.

"Psychology" is one of the most infuriatingly nebulous terms in the entire wrestling lexicon, and I've never seen anyone come to any sort of consensus on what it actually is.

Going by my personal definition of it, psychology is being able to come up with moves and spots specifically in response to whatever is happening in the course of the match, and the larger storyline. Y'know, doing what the match demands rather than what your 'signature' movelist prescribes.

Orton just kinda has the same match every night, going along the traditional 'main event' style formula. Sell for a little bit, then completely stop selling, hit some limp-armed clotheslines and then the falling powerslam (which admittedly is nice, but Goldust and Punk both did/do it better), hit that horrifically contrived and unconvincing elevated DDT, setup for the RKO, miss it, sell for maybe thirty more seconds, then hit the RKO. Every goddamn match. That's not 'psychology,' that's just a checklist.

So no, I really don't see Orton as a good ring psychologist.

I consider psychology to basically be in-ring storytelling. Most of the time on Raw or Smackdown it feels like two guys who go out, they know about how much time they have and they just perform while waiting for the finish. Bryan vs Ryback last night, even taking the crowd response out of the equation was fucking brilliant storytelling during a match for example.

All of his matches when he was WHC told a story. I gave the example of his matches against Mark Henry because Henry, while solid, isn't a guy known for wowing you in the ring. And they told a story. Henry's role was the unstoppable monster and Orton was the babyface "king" of Smackdown basically. Both losses by Orton could have ended with a "... That's it?" reaction but he did a great job making it look like he was giving it all and falling short against an unstoppable monster. They told a great story. He came out looking like a million bucks while making Henry look like a million and one. That's not easy to do.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit".
I'm glad you agree with us.

[Nowhere Man]

As I said, being popular is not the same as being good. McDonald's makes way more money than any five-star steakhouse you can name; that doesn't mean their rubbery faux-meat patties are better than a porterhouse. Orton being more over than Kane is a poor indication of either man's quality.

[#1-norm-fan]

Can't blame Orton for that. Look at Triple H's horrendous record of Mania match quality.

To be fair, I thought his match with Sheamus wasn't that good either and I know a lot of people, including myself, consider Sheamus to be pretty good in the ring.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm glad you agree with us.

Oh now you're just being silly.

[#1-norm-fan]

As I said, being popular is not the same as being good. McDonald's makes way more money than any five-star steakhouse you can name; that doesn't mean their rubbery faux-meat patties are better than a porterhouse. Orton being more over than Kane is a poor indication of either man's quality.

Different subjects. But the ability to get a crowd that's been bored most of the night going during a match is a pretty good ability. Yes it's based on popularity but I mean... isn't being able to get people into what you're doing a good thing?

Hell, The Rock had pretty much depended SOLELY on crowd reaction to cut a "great promo" since coming back.

[Afterlife]

So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?

A) Orton is more naturally over than Kane. Let's not kid ourselves. If neither is involved in anything interesting for 6 months, Orton gets a better pop. Not only entrance-wise but during his matches which is the more important thing. Orton can get a crowd going during a match like Kane cannot.

B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit". I also never mentioned anything about Christian's storyline. Or Henry being less generic. I was talking about the matches. Clearly. Have you resorted to putting words in my mouth AFTER QUOTING WHAT I SAID?[/QUOTE]

Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?

More to the point, I don't just say "he's shit", I point out the fact that Orton does the exact same list of limited moves -- and that includes technical wrestling like "stomping in a circle" and, if we're lucky, "shinning a downed opponent in the temple" -- in every single match. Often more than once a match, as well. He cannot improv for shit, on the mic or in the ring. He never works with other wrestlers, aiming, instead, to force his clunky move set into the match. No, he does not have good matches; Ziggler, Kingston and others have a good match in spite of him.

My comments about Kane were mostly humorous, except that Kane's character is all over the place because Glenn Jacobs can work with whatever he's given. Orton's character is a mess because of bad writing and his inability to convey...things.

[#1-norm-fan]

Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?[/QUOTE]

IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol

[Afterlife]

So, that biplane has crashed, then. I'm sure the villagers will rebuild.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Raging in all caps, and then ending with "lol".

You're sending out mixed messages, and I'm not sure what I think any more.

[Shisen Kopf]

Randy Orton smokes cigarettes so therefore he is subhuman and should be shot. Not given a title shot.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, that lame attempt to move the subject off of you just being a whiny bitch over the fact that others like someone you don't didn't work the first time either. Give it up.

[Shisen Kopf]

Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?

IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol[/QUOTE]

Dare I say, serious business?

[#1-norm-fan]

Raging in all caps, and then ending with "lol".

You're sending out mixed messages, and I'm not sure what I think any more.

I tend to go all caps when trying to get something through the thickest of skulls. It's a habit.

[Afterlife]

Yeah, that lame attempt to move the subject off of you just being a whiny bitch over the fact that others like someone you don't didn't work the first time either. Give it up.

Actually, it's commentary on how your argument is falling apart in a blaze of not-quite-glory, but CLOSE!

[#1-norm-fan]

IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol

Dare I say, serious business?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad Shisen is here to lighten the mood.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I tend to go all caps when trying to get something through the thickest of skulls. It's a habit.
I'm glad you cleared that up for me, but I'm still gonna be lost until you cover the "lol".

[#1-norm-fan]

Actually, it's commentary on how your argument is falling apart in a blaze of not-quite-glory, but CLOSE!

Oh. We're basically going back to "You're wrong". Nice.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm glad you cleared that up for me, but I'm still gonna be lost until you cover the "lol".

Exasperated laughter.

[Shisen Kopf]

Randy is rubbish as they say over in united England emirates. He is boring, generic, and has a shitty diamond cutter. But I still prefer him over Cena. That is the correct answer.

[#1-norm-fan]

Your argument fell apart 2 pages ago, Afterlife.

I said it so it's true.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Exasperated laughter.
Thanks.

[Afterlife]

Oh. We're basically going back to "You're wrong". Nice.

Two barns and an apple orchard were lost in the following inferno, but the townsfolk were able to come together and kill the blaze before it could spread too far.

The pilot is in critical condition.

[#1-norm-fan]

Randy is rubbish as they say over in united England emirates. He is boring, generic, and has a shitty diamond cutter. But I still prefer him over Cena. That is the correct answer.

I take Shisen's opinion on this matter seriously because we share the same VCR. So I'll have to re-examine everything.

[#1-norm-fan]

Two barns and an apple orchard were lost in the following inferno, but the townsfolk were able to come together and kill the blaze before it could spread too far.

The pilot is in critical condition.

Your argument fell apart 2 pages ago, Afterlife.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

#1-wwf-fan wins, guys, so let's all go home.

We had a good run, but the better in-ring psychologist won.

[Nark Order]

Let's turn the conversation to something we all like. Like Tacos. Tacos are good.

[Nark Order]

If a taco was a wrestler in the WWE, Randy Orton would get it fired.

[#1-norm-fan]

#1-wwf-fan wins, guys, so let's all go home.

We had a good run, but the better in-ring psychologist won.

I take Shisen's opinion on this matter seriously because we share the same VCR. So I'll have to re-examine everything.

[Nowhere Man]

Let's turn the conversation to something we all like. Like Tacos. Tacos are good.

I dunno, I'm not too big on tacos' workrate.

[Afterlife]

My taco fell apart 2 pages ago.

[Nowhere Man]

But that taco was money in that feud with the grilled steak burrito.

[#1-norm-fan]

Afterlife has sand in his taco.

[Nark Order]

A taco would've never deficated in Amy Weber's bag.

[Afterlife]

Yes, only MY taco thinks Fan is an idiot who can't express himself.

My taco, alone, is a jerk.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes, only MY taco thinks Fan is an idiot who can't express himself.

My taco, alone, is a jerk.

Your taco cries like a bitch.

[Nark Order]

Okay, well now you guys are making me not like tacos. That wasn't the intention.

[#1-norm-fan]

My taco said it, therefore it's a fact.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Afterlife's taco will not be on the next podcast. I hope you're proud of yourself.

[Afterlife]

Your taco is cries like a bitch.

My taco also is speaks like a moron.

[Nowhere Man]

There. Now Randy Orton has ruined tacos for us; that's how bad he is. Thanks, Randy.

[#1-norm-fan]

Your taco grasps at straws for some strange reason considering it's a taco.

[#1-norm-fan]

TYPO TACO MAKES TACOS FEEL ACCOMPLISHED WHEN THEY FIX OTHER TACO'S TYPOS!

[Nowhere Man]

My taco also claims victory after repeatedly being refuted by multiple people.

[Afterlife]

Your taco grasps at straws for some strange reason considering it's a taco.

Straws are all my taco is offered, even when it asks for solid input.

[#1-norm-fan]

Straws are all my taco is offered, even when it asks for solid input.

Your taco is incapable/terrified of reading opinions other than your own. From now on I shall call it Fundamentalist Christian Taco.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes, yes. Let Randy Orton make everyone question their religious faith now.

[Afterlife]

You've sucked the funny out of the taco gag.

You're also stupid.

[Nowhere Man]

On the plus side, I also liked Harry and the Hendersons, so at the very least you've got that going for you.

[#1-norm-fan]

Your taco is legit mentally retarded...

[#1-norm-fan]

You've sucked the funny out of the taco gag.

You're also stupid.

You're legit mentally retarded...

Personal insults always make your arguments valid. Fact.

[Shisen Kopf]

RIP dude that played Harry

[Afterlife]

You're legit mentally retarded...

Personal insults always make your arguments valid. Fact.

What argument? You aren't making one, so I gave up.

You are stupid, though. That's valid.

[Nowhere Man]

So, can we count on you to listen to the next podcast?

[#1-norm-fan]

What argument? You aren't making one, so I gave up.

You are stupid, though. That's valid.

And you are mentally retarded. Which is valid. And worse than simply being stupid.

So I win this rousing debate.

[#1-norm-fan]

So, can we count on you to listen to the next podcast?

I'll think about it...

[Nowhere Man]

And you are mentally retarded. Which is valid. And worse than simply being stupid.

So I win this rousing debate.

I dunno, man; being mentally handicapped is at least a viable excuse for not knowing things. Stupid is being capable of learning but choosing not to.

[#1-norm-fan]

I dunno, man; being mentally handicapped is at least a viable excuse for not knowing things. Stupid is being capable of learning but choosing not to.

Hmm. You make a good point. This debate is getting VERY interesting now...

[Afterlife]

So, yeah, Orton is really terrible at his job and no one has successfully refuted this. Understood.

[#1-norm-fan]

Orton is great at his job and no one has successfully refuted this.

FACT.

Despite any evidence to the contrary that might exist.

Because I said it.

[Afterlife]

Orton is great at his job and no one has successfully refuted this.

FACT.

Despite any evidence to the contrary that might exist.

Because I said it.

Except me and Jab and Narc and Whereman. Oh, wait...you knew that and you're just being whiny.

[#1-norm-fan]

My evidence was valid and yours was not.

FACT

[#1-norm-fan]

Except Shisen's.

[Afterlife]

My evidence was valid and yours was not.

FACT

O.K., Kane Knight. You're successfully boring now--WHOA! I get it now!

You ARE Randy Orton!

[Shisen Kopf]

Except Shisen's.

All I wanted was a Pepsi

[Shisen Kopf]

Didnt Orton take a dump in one of the divas bags?

[#1-norm-fan]

O.K., Kane Knight. You're successfully boring now--WHOA! I get it now!

You ARE Randy Orton!

Aww. You try so hard. You're losing steam.

Please provide evidence of this. I will then counter with my own reasons which you can ignore and choose to throw a fit over.

[#1-norm-fan]

Didnt Orton take a dump in one of the divas bags?

A couple...

[Afterlife]

Please provide evidence of this. I will then counter with my own reasons which you can ignore and choose to throw a fit over.

Well, you've been redundant and unimpressive, and yet you convince yourself you're on top no matter how much refutation you're given. That, and nothing you've said has been meaningful or memorable. So, yeah, def leaning toward you being Randy Orton.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well, you've been redundant and unimpressive, and yet you convince yourself you're on top no matter how much refutation you're given. That, and nothing you've said has been meaningful or memorable. So, yeah, def leaning toward you being Randy Orton.

Is this where I'm supposed to whine like a bitch that you don't agree with me on a wrestler's skills and claim a lack of evidence?

I believe that's your role.

[Shisen Kopf]

Here's a rad photo of Randy at the gym. This will explain why he is totally dope.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxk7s4G1Gj1qjsmfto1_500.jpg

[Afterlife]

You do whatever you want, Randy.

[Nark Order]

Yo. Let's be friends now.

[#1-norm-fan]

MAYBE!

[Nowhere Man]

Yo. Let's be friends now.

No. You and I are not friends now.

DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE, RANDY!?!?!

[#1-norm-fan]

K, no.

[Nowhere Man]

YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, RANDY!

[Nark Order]

Randy Orton is tearing 1/850 of this forum apart!

[#1-norm-fan]

It's the voices in my head.

[Nowhere Man]

Which reminds me: in your theme music, "in my head" and "understand" do not rhyme.

[#1-norm-fan]

That's right. Your rule of rhyming is being broken.

[#1-norm-fan]

Does that make you start questioning your faith?

[Nowhere Man]

No, because I never had any faith in Randy to begin with.

[#1-norm-fan]

I will shit on your face.

[Nowhere Man]

Stepping up from shitting in bags, then?

[#1-norm-fan]

Up!? Someone thinks highly of himself.

[Fignuts]

Did you guys seriously just argue for 6 pages about Randy fucking Orton?

[#1-norm-fan]

It was more about the intense hatred people have for the fact that people like Orton.

[Afterlife]

No. Randy Orton was the topic; Fan made sure we didn't get close to the topic.

[#1-norm-fan]

And by "people", I mean Afterlife.

[Nark Order]

Nobody cares that you like Orton that much. It's just odd. It's women and you.

[#1-norm-fan]

Everyone else seemed to understand difference of opinion to some extent.

[#1-norm-fan]

Nobody cares that you like Orton that much. It's just odd. It's women and you.

CSL is a chick.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, Sting.

[Nark Order]

And he's fucking hot too.

[Afterlife]

Yes. Once again, I was the only person baffled by Fan.

[#1-norm-fan]

And I'm sure many other people with penises.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes. Once again, I was the only person baffled by Fan.

There's a difference between not getting it and bitching and complaining about it.

[#1-norm-fan]

And he's fucking hot too.

CSL?

[Afterlife]

...O.k.?

[#1-norm-fan]

it baffles me that people don't see this, the guy is so good it's ridiculous. "The prototypical sports entertainment star" as #1-wwf-fan puts it is pretty much the perfect way to describe him.

It's weird that the two opposing camps have literally zero common ground on this guy.

It's like we're in the Discussion Forum.

so concede ground bastard. Or we're gonna have to deconstruct every single sentence, referencing various articles and videos for each and every individual word, thus rendering the entire process entirely brain numbing and futile yet it will still go on for 7 pages.

Man, CSL was pretty spot on.

[Fignuts]

WWF Fan and CSL like Randy Orton.

Narc, Afterlife, and Nowhere Man do not like Randy Orton.

They all have trouble expressing their opinions about Randy Orton, without resorting to calling each other buttfaces.

I have just summed up the thread for those who don't feel like reading it all.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, he was baffled much like Narc. Two sides baffled about the complete other side. Baffling.

[Nowhere Man]

They all have trouble expressing their opinions about Randy Orton, without resorting to calling each other buttfaces.

At no point did I refer to anyone as buttface, you buttface.



.......shit.

[Fignuts]

UPDATE: They all seem to like the word "baffling".

[Nark Order]

WWF Fan and CSL like Randy Orton.

Narc, Afterlife, and Nowhere Man do not like Randy Orton.

They all have trouble expressing their opinions about Randy Orton, without resorting to calling each other buttfaces.

I have just summed up the thread for those who don't feel like reading it all.

You're being a fucking asshole.

No. Kidzies.

For real though, I didn't do that. You're mashing me in with everyone.

[Nark Order]

That actually really upset me, Fignuts. I purposely did not engage and call names so nobody could try to rope me into such jargon. You're a real jerk. Read the thread. Gonna kill myself. I need a straw.

[Nowhere Man]

I think Afterlife grasped them all about 2 pages ago.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, I just kinda skimmed the thread.

It's not really meant to be taken that seriously. Cool it, guy.

[#1-norm-fan]

CSL has also been unfairly lumped into this. The poor fuck.

[Nark Order]

I just cut myself because of you. BLOOD CAN'T BE TAKEN BACK, FIGNUTS.

[Fignuts]

Can't tell if Narc is being serious or not atm. Total PullMyFinger vibe right now.

[Fignuts]

You know what, whatever. CSL and NARC may not have been a part of the name calling but they were definitely thinking it.

And by rules of the catholic church, if you thought it, you fucking did it.

Nailed you, you fucking sinners.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'll buy it when I see the obituary.

Right now it's likely just a cry for help.

[Fignuts]

Our King of the Forum is a cutter. Jesus. Probably listens to The Cure.

[#1-norm-fan]

Our King of the Forum was a cutter. Jesus. Probably listened to The Cure.

Fixed. RIP Vicki Venom

[#1-norm-fan]

I mean Narc.

[Fignuts]

Are you drunk?