NFL 2012 Off-Season Thread

[RP]

Andrew Luck will lead the Colts to the Superbowl next year. Mark my fucking words bitch! PUT IT ON THE BOARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

[James Steele]

I can't wait for Luck to have an average game and people who have been blowing him for 2 years are the first ones to turn on him.

[Ermaximus]

Who needs referees now when we can just have every play reviewed by the booth?

Now if we could just find a way to throw penalty flags without people....

[Hanso Amore]

The problem with the AFC is that there are a bunch of nothing franchises in that conference. The NFC on the whole has a better quality of teams in terms of city population and fan base. I would probably send Chicago or Washington to the AFC, swap them with Cincinnati or Tennessee or some team like that to even things out a bit. It's just difficult to picture Cleveland, Houston, or most of those other mid to lower tier teams in the AFC as ever really being long term powerhouses.

What? Cincy and Tennesee have made the playoffs in recent years.

Long term powerhouses? You act like that is a common thing.

At this point only a few teams can make that claim,.

Indy (over)
NE
Pitt
Balt to a much lesser extent
New Orleans
Green Bay (Just starting).

Other than that, even the Giants have had down years around some good ones. That is the great thing about the NFL, constant rotation at the top and bottom, with exception of just a few teams at both ends.

[Hanso Amore]

The NFL is more even than ever. There really isnt any "bottom Feeders" right now as no one is really racking up back to back bottom of the heard years. The Rams started to, but had a good season and almost made the polayoffs 2 years ago before taking a step back, and they should improve this year.

[Next Big Thing]

That's what has helped make it the #1 sport in America in my opinion. Every season, it feels like the majority of the teams in the league have a chance to at least make the playoffs, if not pull off a miracle run. In baseball and basketball, it feels like the same teams/major franchises are going to dominate every year and the major stars of up and coming franchises will just jump to better locations when they're free agents anyways.

[Gonzo]

The stats are out there but a certain percentage of teams who made the playoffs the year prior won't make it and a certain number of brand new playoff teams will make it that didn't make it the previous year.

Of course you have perennial powers but I digress.

And IIRC, baseball has had a different champion each year for quite some time. Maybe the usual suspects make the playoffs consistently but I don't think they're winning the big one each year.

[Next Big Thing]

You're right, but I feel like most NFL fans have an understanding that their team won't win the big one every year. Just being in the wildcard race creates enough excitement to keep people coming back each week.

Baseball might have a different champion each year, but if you're not even in the playoff running it's hard to really give a fuck. It takes a long time for down teams to recover, if they ever do. The Steelers and Penguins have been up down and up again, the Pittsburgh Pirates have had a losing record for 20 years. Kansas City hasn't been to the playoffs since before most people on this board were born.

You follow a team for 170 games and even with a winning record they can still get shut out of the playoffs. MLB is the only sport where 5 or 6 teams with winning records still don't make the playoffs... after playing 170 games that last 3 hours or more... with minimum action compared to basketball and football. That seems brutal.

At least in the NFL, even if you're team is shitty, you have the draft to look forward to or you have one star that everyone loves (like Peyton Hillis in 2010 for the Browns).

[Gonzo]

I think the number of games has a lot to do with it. I think the NFL has a situation where they have people satiated by the number of games but at the same time have them clamoring for the product. I think the one and done playoff format really makes the NFL thrive. The draft is also a lot bigger than the other sports drafts. I think the NBA is a close second.

I can't get into the other sports on a serious level, personally, because of the number of games. To me their respective seasons are unnecessarily long. I think the strike shortened NBA season would be better than the normal 82 game slate.

[screech]

The draft is also a lot bigger than the other sports drafts. I think the NBA is a close second.


Drafts in NFL & NBA are a bigger deal because there aren't really minor leagues in those sports. You draft a guy in April/June (I think that's when NBA is), he's playing for you in a matter of months rather than years.

[Next Big Thing]

I just really hate baseball in general to be honest. You're right in that the NBA would probably be better off shortening its season too. Too bad they aren't willing to give up the t.v. dollars.

[screech]

I just really hate baseball in general to be honest.

This makes me sad.

[Next Big Thing]

I feel like I've let you down Screech. I'm sorry.

[DrA]

What? Cincy and Tennesee have made the playoffs in recent years.

Long term powerhouses? You act like that is a common thing.

At this point only a few teams can make that claim,.

Indy (over)
NE
Pitt
Balt to a much lesser extent
New Orleans
Green Bay (Just starting).

Other than that, even the Giants have had down years around some good ones. That is the great thing about the NFL, constant rotation at the top and bottom, with exception of just a few teams at both ends.

Every team sneaks into the playoffs now and again. If you were to look at who made the playoffs the last five years, you would probably see 25-28 teams on that list. For the last ten or so years in the AFC, however, you can't deny that three or four teams have been ruling that conference with a couple of pretty good teams in the background. But now Manning is going to be 36 and done with Indianapolis, Brady is going to be 35, and Pittsburgh has one of, if not the oldest, defenses in the NFL. In the upcoming years I think it's going to be more difficult for those teams to consistently hold those top spots as they have been doing, but as of right now there don't appear to be many teams in the AFC who can take their place. Maybe this is a sign that the AFC will become more like the NFC where it is harder to win your division continually, and you have more teams who have really good seasons one year and go back to being mediocre the next.

My second post had more to do with market sizes. Here is a list I found, I don't know how accurate it is:

NFL "Designated Market Area" (DMA) rankings by size
1. New York Giants/New York Jets
3. Chicago Bears
4. Philadelphia Eagles
5. Dallas Cowboys
6. San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders
7. New England Patriots
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Washington Redskins
10. Houston Texans
11. Detroit Lions
12. Arizona Cardinals
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
14. Seattle Seahawks
15. Minnesota Vikings
16. Miami Dolphins
17. Cleveland Browns
18. Denver Broncos
21. St. Louis Rams
23. Pittsburgh Steelers
24. Carolina Panthers
25. Indianapolis Colts
26. Baltimore Ravens
28. San Diego Chargers
29. Tennessee Titans
31. Kansas City Chiefs
34. Cincinnati Bengals
47. Jacksonville Jaguars
51. Buffalo Bills
53. New Orleans Saints
70. Green Bay Packers


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/pro-football/1187003-nfl-standings-designated-market-area-dma.html#ixzz1qXASMKPc

I'll see if I can find more information, but on the whole the NFC has bigger local markets than the AFC.

[Ermaximus]

Is Green Bay's DMA really that low? I had no idea.

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah Green Bay has always been a very small market area which is why the club had to go public in order to survive. Rare instance of a small market team being treated as a "big market" team due to both the parity of the league and the historic status as one of the original NFL teams.

Fan-wise, they are a lot higher since they are spread out all over the US like every other old and successful NFL teams.

Every other area either is a multiple sport city, a big market (or near one), or has some tradition in football due to college.

[Ermaximus]

Ahh, so that's why Jacksonville isn't dead last. Makes sense.

[Droford]

What? Cincy and Tennesee have made the playoffs in recent years.

Long term powerhouses? You act like that is a common thing.

At this point only a few teams can make that claim,.

Indy (over)
NE
Pitt
Balt to a much lesser extent
New Orleans
Green Bay (Just starting).

Other than that, even the Giants have had down years around some good ones. That is the great thing about the NFL, constant rotation at the top and bottom, with exception of just a few teams at both ends.

The only team in the NFL to make the playoffs and win a playoff game each of the last 4 years is barely a powerhouse? They have 49 wins which is tied for 3rd most with New Orleans and behind New England and Pittsburgh with 50 since 2008. They've been to 2 AFC champ games in that span..The Steelers and Saints won a SB and the Pats lost one..I know the Ravens haven't gotten to a SB, but I don't think that DQ's the Ravens from being considered a "powerhouse". I know you hate the Ravens, but come on..

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Ed Reed says he wants to play next year.

Double turds!

[Kris P Lettus]

All i can say is :'(..

There's always next year (2013)..

Who Dat??

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9CC1mpi7hIM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kris P Lettus]

LEGAL HIT

[Next Big Thing]

Ya'll always were the A'ints. You've forgotten your place these past few years and now you'll get to remember it again when you go back to being the 2nd or 3rd best team in the division. Good luck chasing a Wildcard spot.

[Krimzon7]

Ya'll always were the A'ints. You've forgotten your place these past few years and now you'll get to remember it again when you go back to being the 2nd or 3rd best team in the division. Good luck chasing a Wildcard spot.

I fucking love it!!! I hate living in the A, and seeing so many Saints fans parade around. NBT, let's hit a Falcons game bro! I would invite you to the UFC, but you may not wanna be around so much heel heat that night.

[Kris P Lettus]

SB XXXIII

[Kris P Lettus]

Giants alleged SB ring

http://i.imgur.com/RkSGh.png

[Kris P Lettus]

http://i.imgur.com/oTlh6.jpg

[Next Big Thing]

Ha! That made me miss those old Cash Money/No Limit CD covers.

[Kris P Lettus]

Giants alleged SB ring

http://i.imgur.com/RkSGh.png

This is it cause ESPN said a LB who was on IR tweeted it..

[Next Big Thing]

I fucking love it!!! I hate living in the A, and seeing so many Saints fans parade around. NBT, let's hit a Falcons game bro! I would invite you to the UFC, but you may not wanna be around so much heel heat that night.

Most definitely. I think there are a bunch of people on here from GA actually.

[Kris P Lettus]

Be sure to hit up the gay bar after the game, guys!!

[Kris P Lettus]

Suspended Saints coach Sean Payton will file an appeal of his season-long ban Friday, according to the Associated Press.

In addition, The Saints announced they have appealed their $500,000 fine and loss of draft picks and Saints GM Mickey Loomis is appealing his eight-game ban. Assistant head coach Joe Vitt has appealed his six-game suspension.

Suspensions for Saints officials including Payton were set to begin Sunday. The NFL found this month that players were paid non-contract bonuses for harming opponents from 2009-11, and that Payton and others lied to NFL officials investigating the program.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said at owners meetings in Florida this week that if Payton and others chose to appeal their suspensions, they would remain in their current duties until an expedited review was completed.

NFL Network reports the coach is also expected to "seek guidance on amount of time he will have to prepare his appeal, and attempt to obtain the full reports from NFL Security regarding the bounty evidence against him."

Former NFL head coach Bill Parcells has discussed with Payton the possibility of coming out of retirement to lead the Saints for a season, though Parcells says a decision is "a long way off."

[Blakeamus]

Have faith Kris P...have faith.

[Kris P Lettus]

Might should change my sig back to to "Faith" pic instead of Brees breaking records..

[Kris P Lettus]

boom

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

NFL Appeal Process:

1. Goddell thinks long and hard about his decision and makes it.
2. Coach Appeals.
3. Goddell agrees with his original decision. Appeal denied.

[FearedSanctity]

Dunno. I seem to recall seeing a lot more suspensions reduced than appeals denied

[Next Big Thing]

Be sure to hit up the gay bar after the game, guys!!

It's hard for me to bite my tongue, but I know what it means to miss New Orleans. My heart is in that city, but not with that team. Going to college in NOLA was the greatest four years of my life, but it also left me knowing without a doubt, A'ints fans should be sterilized. I have more of a claim to that team and city as a fan than 90% of the jock riders repping them today. Roll Wave! Katrina Class Bitch!

Except for you Kris P. You're a legit fan, and I've got much love for you personally, so I just pity you as a fan in the same way people feel sorry for down syndrome babies. That team winning the Super Bowl was the equivalent of a blue balled loser getting a mercy fuck once in a blue moon.

But hey, at least Goodell is going to let them blow the dust off Bill Parcells so that he can come up short with yet another franchise. If this was 1996, maybe I'd be worried. He can't even be effective in what he does best since Spagnuolo runs a 4-3 and Parcells prefers the 3-4.

[Next Big Thing]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308420_2462552355786_1011537919_2885808_1518943352_n.jpg

[Next Big Thing]

By the way, I just found out Gruden has a show on ESPN called QB Camp. It's pretty amazing. He basically grills the hell out of QBs in the draft and puts them on the spot. He had Luck on this week and will have RG3 on next week.

I watched an episode with Blaine Gabbert from last year. He gave Gabbert the business.

[Droford]

Ed Reed says he wants to play next year.

Double turds!

I think he's got one more year in him..Id like to see Ray Lewis and Ed go out at the same time so they would both be eligible for the HOF at the same time and go in together..

This is pretty much the last year the Ravens have with the current group. Concievably after this season Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Ray Lewis and Ed Reed could all be gone. I cant imagine Flacco not resigning but its possible and Ray Rice is going to want a pretty big contract too and might walk.

[Krimzon7]

Can't wait to see the new Nike nfl unis.

[Krimzon7]

Be sure to hit up the gay bar after the game, guys!!

You're gonna save us a parking spot right???:cool:

[Gonzo]

Can't wait to see the new Nike nfl unis.

I hope they stay the same. The shit Nike comes out with is retarded.

[Kris P Lettus]

http://www.buyjerseyscheap.com/images/New%20Orleans%20Saints%20%202012%20nike%20nfl%20jerseys%20pro%20combat%20uniform.jpg

[Kris P Lettus]

http://www.buyjerseyscheap.com/images/New%20York%20Giants%20%202012%20nike%20nfl%20jerseys%20pro%20combat%20uniform.jpg

[Emperor Smeat]

Seen 3 versions of the Patriots one and they all use the classic Red & White style although one of them is basically a "lazy" version of the retro jersey, one that looks a bit better, and one that includes the US flag along with a new version of the helmet.

None of them bring back the old Minuteman on the helmet though which defeats the purpose considering when the Pats use the throwbacks, they also go with the throwback helmet.

[FearedSanctity]

Aren't those the fake ones from a while back? Nike already said they aren't making any dramatic changes

[Next Big Thing]

New Era is going to be doing the hats now. Should get much better shit than Reebok in that department.

[Kris P Lettus]

New Era is going to be doing the hats now. Should get much better shit than Reebok in that department.

This is good news..

[road doggy dogg]

Sucks that the Lions can't change to the new jerseys because they just got new ones in 2009. There's a rule where you gotta wait 5 years before making changes to jerseys or something. Whatever.
crossrine

[Gonzo]

Fairly certain those images from up there are fakes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Nike churns out that shit and it's fucking awful.

I don't think Nike would be able to make any changes without consent of the league, teams etc. anyways.

[CSL]

I just figured this going to be as simple as switching out the Reebok logo for Nike logos for the most part outside of a few teams changing a few bits (Carolina, Seattle etc) and the "technology" of them

[FearedSanctity]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>The new NFL uniforms thru Nike are going to be crazy......Innovation at its finest!</p>&mdash; Mike Vick (@MikeVick) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeVick/status/186989283788324864" data-datetime="2012-04-03T01:31:34+00:00">April 3, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>At the Nike NFL Launch Event the New Redskins uniform is sweet!!! Will have a pic for I guys later today!</p>&mdash; Brian Orakpo (@rak98) <a href="https://twitter.com/rak98/status/187136682678689792" data-datetime="2012-04-03T11:17:16+00:00">April 3, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[FearedSanctity]

Reveal is apparently a couple hours away, 11am ET. Can't find any way to watch though. Guess Nike is going to post a stream link at the last minute or something

[OssMan]

The jerseys Nike made for college basketball are dreadful

[FearedSanctity]

lol RG3 refuses a private workout with Indy. Good call, they clearly have no real interest, why do it just to give them bargaining leverage with Luck?

[CSL]

https://p.twimg.com/ApkB-i7CIAEq-h9.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

Don't particularly care for those gloves at all.

This shit better be covered on Sportscenter or NFLN or something.

[Innovator]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540488_161684887287517_100003380217607_213224_486794169_n.jpg

[Kris P Lettus]

The Browns def need to change.. Their logo is just a f'n orange helmet..

[Supreme Olajuwon]

but they have such a great history with that logo :'(

[FearedSanctity]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>They just showed a little video with a glimpse of the new Seahawks uni... It is SERIOUSLY ugly...</p>&mdash; Paul Lukas (@UniWatch) <a href="https://twitter.com/UniWatch/status/187194224305913856" data-datetime="2012-04-03T15:05:55+00:00">April 3, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Kris P Lettus]

Couldn't be any worse than it already was..

[FearedSanctity]

The fact that this isn't on TV but the helicopter chase of Manning's car was is fucking stupid

[FearedSanctity]

http://i.imgur.com/0hPUn.jpg

wat

[FearedSanctity]

https://p.twimg.com/ApkOpwRCEAAVopa.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

http://i.imgur.com/Nvdf8.jpg

http://prod.images.seahawks.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/SEAHAWKS/assets/images/imported/SEA/photos/clubimages/2012/04-April/helmet-04--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720&interpolation=bilinear

[FearedSanctity]

https://api.plixi.com/api/tpapi.svc/imagefromurl?size=medium&url=http%3A%2F%2Flockerz.com%2Fs%2F198179325

[CSL]

http://prod.images.seahawks.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/SEAHAWKS/assets/images/imported/SEA/photos/clubimages/2012/04-April/Lynch-White_nohelmet--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720&interpolation=bilinear

http://prod.images.seahawks.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/SEAHAWKS/assets/images/imported/SEA/photos/clubimages/2012/04-April/blue-grey-combo--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720&interpolation=bilinear

http://prod.images.seahawks.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/SEAHAWKS/assets/images/imported/SEA/photos/clubimages/2012/04-April/grey-chest--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720&interpolation=bilinear

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Those are surprisingly slick. I can see why Paul Lukas hates them though.

[FearedSanctity]

https://p.twimg.com/ApkWhhUCEAAPDsS.jpg

[CSL]

https://p.twimg.com/ApkWhhUCEAAPDsS.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

And the one we all care about...

https://d1au12fyca1yp1.cloudfront.net/153655/153655_melt.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

Relevant...

http://kusabax.cultnet.net/sug/src/132703577638.jpg

[CSL]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/ri_rob/Giants.png

[CSL]

https://d1au12fyca1yp1.cloudfront.net/153670/153670_melt.jpg

https://d1au12fyca1yp1.cloudfront.net/153665/153665_melt.jpg

https://d1au12fyca1yp1.cloudfront.net/153656/153656_melt.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

Nike NFL jerseys: Now with new collars!

[CSL]

well the Packers collar survived

http://media.whosay.com/153672/153672_la.jpg

[CSL]

pretty annoying to be a Bills fan if you bought the new jersey last year

https://p.twimg.com/ApkauSCCMAEDyyE.jpg

[FearedSanctity]

Seriously, what the fuck are these collars? Looks alright for the Broncos because it meshes well with the stripe on the side, but for teams like the Bills and Saints that don't have anything "fancy" like that it looks fucking retarded

[Kris P Lettus]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/552827055.jpg?key=800560&Expires=1333471021&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=Py-dY~EpDfiEtfk55vy9FETDU0zYHlYe3bBpgRezpcSfzgnVfGQRa21LwNzonUEkI4aOwqaWyDPtY~QFXgLAVPJhBxeBqwZzZtaWdMB BAx~FQpUHrrpQ3C25IaztV1issNFlEaF0VDjZWkQeiuIr41p7MeTS-ZFifHCXtCYz3Io_

[Gonzo]

Glad that the Giants didn't change.

Fucking Nike man.

[Requiem]

Colts stayed pretty much the same. Didn't see them changing much to stay with tradition.

http://www.nikeinc.com/news/nfl-uniforms-indianapolis-colts#/inline/9290

The base design of the 'technology' of the uniforms seems to be an improvement over the old ones. Player feedback from those that helped show them off seems to be pretty positive.

[Droford]

Saw where Nike didn't make any radical changes to the main two jerseys (Home/Away) but they might fuck with the Alternates as a way to sell them..The Ravens alternate is the black top and I hope they dont screw with that.

/clings to his 2008 Joe Flacco Reebok On Field Jersey

[Next Big Thing]

They don't look that much different. I like the collars. Except for the Seahawks. It looks like someone looked at a highlighter and said, "That would make a good looking color scheme on a jersey." Why do colleges and pro teams in the Pacific Northwest always have the most out there, dramatic, pansy looking uniforms?

By the way, how much does this say about the greatness of the NFL when they're able to pull off stuff like this and have people care? Then they get the buzz back again in a couple of weeks with the draft and aftermath of that. Best run league in all of sports... minus the whole bounty thing of course. It's like how Apple gets buzz with the announcement of every new product they've ever released even though they're most likely going to resemble the one from the generation before.

[Gonzo]

Nike is based in Oregon, although I don't know if that makes a huge difference.

[Nark Order]

New 9ers uniforms and the new Browns uniforms stayed pretty classic and clean. Pretty happy about it to be honest. Didn't want my teams to get all wonky looking. Both looks are pretty iconic anyhow, no need to change much.

[Emperor Smeat]

Patriots one didn't change at all except for not wanting the new collars some of the other teams have.

[James Steele]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/nikeinc/assets/9215/SU12_AT_NFL_UNIFORM_FRONT_BENGALS_large.jpg?1333425749
http://s3.amazonaws.com/nikeinc/assets/9216/SU12_AT_NFL_UNIFORM_BACK_BENGALS_large.jpg?1333425837

The only big thing on the Bears uniform is going back to the older style thick GSH sleeve stripes. The Redskins uniform looks the same, so I don't know what the big deal is. The Seahawks are the only ones to make any drastic changes.

[Krimzon7]

They don't look that much different. I like the collars. Except for the Seahawks. It looks like someone looked at a highlighter and said, "That would make a good looking color scheme on a jersey." Why do colleges and pro teams in the Pacific Northwest always have the most out there, dramatic, pansy looking uniforms?

By the way, how much does this say about the greatness of the NFL when they're able to pull off stuff like this and have people care? Then they get the buzz back again in a couple of weeks with the draft and aftermath of that. Best run league in all of sports... minus the whole bounty thing of course. It's like how Apple gets buzz with the announcement of every new product they've ever released even though they're most likely going to resemble the one from the generation before.

Even bounty gate was sensational! People just care about everything NFL...bounty gate made MARCH FUCKING MADNESS play second fiddle for a while. Nfl is king, even if goddell is a huge asshat and he is pussyfying my league

[Krimzon7]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/nikeinc/assets/9215/SU12_AT_NFL_UNIFORM_FRONT_BENGALS_large.jpg?1333425749
http://s3.amazonaws.com/nikeinc/assets/9216/SU12_AT_NFL_UNIFORM_BACK_BENGALS_large.jpg?1333425837

The only big thing on the Bears uniform is going back to the older style thick GSH sleeve stripes. The Redskins uniform looks the same, so I don't know what the big deal is. The Seahawks are the only ones to make any drastic changes.

Oh I want to believe that the bengals, Andy dalton, and company are real....they've just hurt me so many times before. :'(


And what the fuck is with that hexagon right on the ass crack? Is that the new fly wire shit port?

[James Steele]

It is the buttpad built into the girdles/tights/compression shorts. They started making them about 5-6 years ago with the hip, butt, and thigh pads built into the tights so they are lighter and provide better movement.

[Innovator]

"I assume everybody thinks they're a top-five quarterback," Flacco said when asked where he thinks he ranks among NFL quarterbacks. "I mean, I think I'm the best. I don't think I'm top five, I think I'm the best. I don't think I'd be very successful at my job if I didn't feel that way. I mean, c'mon? That's not really too tough of a question.

"That doesn't mean that things are going to work out that way. It just means that's the way it is -- that's the way I feel that it is and that's the way I feel it should be."

Flacco taking the Eli approach this season.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I didn't know Cincy had a player on their team named Bengals. That's amazing.

[Kris P Lettus]

Wednesday, April 4, 2012
New unis: Packers reject all changes
By Kevin Seifert

I passed along a link Tuesday to view the individual team pages for Nike's rollout of 2012 NFL uniforms. If you scrolled over to the Green Bay Packers' page, you saw this note: "The Green Bay Packers have chosen to stay with their traditional design aesthetic as well as their former uniform fabrication for the coming season."

What exactly does that mean? I sought some clarity from the Packers, and here's what I can tell you:

Most team uniform styles were changed in subtle ways. For example, the Detroit Lions have a duller version of gray on their pants. Some teams have new-look collars. The Chicago Bears moved their television numbers from the sleeves of the jerseys to the shoulders.

The Packers allowed absolutely no changes to their classic look, not even the most simple alteration in color or shade. The only difference is the Nike logo, according to spokesman Aaron Popkey.

The Packers also decided against using the new technology Nike introduced as part of this transition, including a different fabric that is purported to be lighter, especially when wet. But that issue could be revisited after the 2012 season. "We are open-minded on that aspect," Popkey said.

The Packers were among a handful of NFL teams to reject the new trappings of the uniform change. Your responses were mostly supportive, from what I could see. Via Twitter, @matsonscotty wrote: "packers unis didn't change at all. Just as it should be." Many of you agreed.

But a handful were hoping for a fresh look. @Whiledayes wrote: "It's upsetting no NFCN teams took the leap [Seattle] did. Thought this was a game about fwd progress."

None of us should have been expecting the Packers would make significant changes to their uniforms, and frankly we shouldn't be surprised to hear they rejected every single possibility. The Packers have gotten a bit more corporate in recent years, but let's not get crazy here. For now, people who wanted to change will have to be happy with newly colored shoes and cooler gloves.

Related: Paul Lukas has a detailed breakdown of each team's changes on his Uni Watch blog.

[Kris P Lettus]

Also, Nick Fairly got busted for weed last night..

http://www.freep.com/article/20120403/SPORTS01/120403049/nick-fairley-detroit-lions-marijuana-arrest?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[FearedSanctity]

Don't see the problem with shifting their "classic" design to the new technology. Apparently the players love the new jerseys and they allow easier movement. Just doesn't make sense to me, they're gonna make the change eventually anyway if the players really do prefer them more. Why delay the inevitable?

[Kris P Lettus]

Yeah I don't get it either..

[Kris P Lettus]

I heard they want to go back to wearing leather helmets too..

[Kris P Lettus]

LOL here is what a Broncos fan did with their Tebow jersey..

http://i.imgur.com/48rRH.jpg

[Next Big Thing]

"I assume everybody thinks they're a top-five quarterback," Flacco said when asked where he thinks he ranks among NFL quarterbacks. "I mean, I think I'm the best. I don't think I'm top five, I think I'm the best. I don't think I'd be very successful at my job if I didn't feel that way. I mean, c'mon? That's not really too tough of a question.

"That doesn't mean that things are going to work out that way. It just means that's the way it is -- that's the way I feel that it is and that's the way I feel it should be."

Flacco taking the Eli approach this season.

Flacco has gotten some flack-o for that one. See what I did there? Questions like that suck anyway. If he says no, then he has no confidence and isn't a leader, if he says yes than he's delusional.

[FearedSanctity]

How long has he been in the NFL? He still doesn't know how to answer questions like that?

"Do you think you're a top 5 QB?"
"Well you know that's not for me to decide. I just go out there every week and blah blah blah"

[Innovator]

Jeter needs to open a school to teach athletes how to say absolutely nothing to the media.

[Nark Order]

Don't want to defend Flacks here, but every starting QB should probably answer that question the way he did. I've always liked the whole "If I don't think I'm the best, then why am I here?" mentality.

[FearedSanctity]

If Flacco is the best in the NFL, then Matt Moore is also playing at a Hall of Fame level

[Nark Order]

That's not really the point though. He's saying that every starting QB should believe that they are the best or have the potential to be the best. I agree with him, to be honest.

[FearedSanctity]

Don't want to defend Flacks here, but every starting QB should probably answer that question the way he did. I've always liked the whole "If I don't think I'm the best, then why am I here?" mentality.

Then he needs to back it up. The best QBs in the league, guys like Brady and Brees, don't have to consistently be bailed out by their defenses, and can even win when the D is failing. By making comments like this Flacco just opens himself up to even more criticism for the coming season than he was going to face anyway. Just take the stock neutral answer and shut up

[FearedSanctity]

That's not really the point though. He's saying that every starting QB should believe that they are the best or have the potential to be the best. I agree with him, to be honest.

And he can think that all he wants, but that's not how the media will view it. They'll latch on to the "I mean, I think I'm the best. I don't think I'm top five, I think I'm the best." part, hype the shit out of it to the national audience and then suddenly Joe is under even more pressure all because of an unnecessary "well intentioned" comment

[Kris P Lettus]

Dear Andrew Christopher Brees, Quarterback of the New Orleans Saints,

Hello again. You probably remember me from the Cracker Barrel in Biloxi, Mississippi. I’m the one who brought you the Tabasco sauce for your soup. Why you wanted Tobasco sauce in your soup I have no idea, but who am I to pass judgment on the cover boy of Sega’s 1999 NCAA College Football 2K2 video game?

Anyway, I’m writing because I heard about your whole contract situation with the Saints. My friend Hannah Wilks said that you don’t think they offered you enough money to play for them so you won’t sign the contract and may not play next season. Is this true? I can never really trust Hannah because she’s a notorious liar. Everyone knows that. She told me once that if I say your name out loud three times anywhere in the world that a football will hit me in the chest. I’ve actually never tried it, but I’m pretty sure it’s not true. Anyway that’s all I need: a football-shaped bruise on my sternum.

But if you really are having problems agreeing with the Saints about how much money you should be paid to play for them, maybe this story will help you. Back when I was working at the Cracker Barrel, I was what you might call the “star waiter.” You probably noticed this when I put down your soup. I always had the highest sales, the highest tip percentage and the customers loved me. Well except for this girl Wendy Hestman, but she didn’t like anyone really. Anyway, I pretty much carried the place on my back.

You should know that the Cracker Barrel is a pooled house. In case you never worked in a restaurant before (which I’m sure you haven’t had time to do since you’ve been busy getting a degree in industrial engineering and also playing football), a pooled house means we all share the tips so that no one waiter makes more than another. Needless to say, I was always the one putting more money into the pool than everyone else. But I didn’t care. We were a team. Plus they had these incentive type things that I always won anyways so I did end up making more, but that’s beside the point.

There was this one night that my dad had to borrow my car (probably to go pick up a prostitute … he’s the kind of jerk who would do that) so I asked my boss for a ride home. My boss is a pretty cool guy. He does wear these mouse ears on his head sometimes when it’s not even Halloween, so that’s kind of weird. But his name is Mickey so I guess it’s his idea of a joke. Other than that, he’s okay.

So he was driving me home late at night. I just realized that this sounds like the beginning of a rape story, but let me assure you right now that it’s NOT. I mean he did touch my leg once, but I’m pretty sure it was an accident. Anyway, we got to talking about work, and I mentioned that since Mark Tressman left the restaurant I was now the senior server. He replied, “Yeah, I know that. Don’t think I don’t also notice that you’re the best waiter in the place, maybe even in the whole state.” I got all red in the face. I hate that. That’s all I needed: for my boss to see that I was some sentimental softy who couldn’t handle a compliment. So to cover it up I was like, “Yeah, I guess you could call me the MVE, Most Valuable Employee.” He laughed at that. But it wasn’t the good kind of laugh. And I knew it wasn’t funny. It was a lazy joke, as you probably realize.

Nonetheless, it was starting to feel pretty friendly between us, so I asked for a raise … right there in his Oldsmobile. It just sort of slipped out. I’m sure that’s probably how it happened with you too, when you asked for your raise. Anyway, he was just about to answer when his car made a sound like my cat does when I grab his front paws and play air guitar with them. We looked at each other as the engine died and his car slowed to a stop.

Now I’m no mechanic, but I assume that when black smoke is coming from an engine that one of two things is happening: either the car is on fire or … well I guess that’s the only real possibility. Anyway, the car was on fire. After he cried a little and made a call, we sat on the road, watching his car burn and waited for help to arrive.

With nothing else to talk about, I gently brought up money again, “So what were you gonna say about my raise before the car caught on fire?” He went on to say that if it were up to him, he’d give me all the money I wanted since I was so indispensable to the company. I flushed again. I hate that. But, he explained, the company only had so much money (a cap, I think he called it), so if they were to pay me more, either someone I work with would have to make less or they might even have to let someone go.

That idea really hit me. Now I don’t like everyone I work with, but the evil you know is better than some new asshole. Plus I’d hate to lose someone like my friend, Hannah. We hate all the same things so talking with her can really make a shift fly by.

As Mickey continued to make his point, I tuned him out and thought to myself, “Wait a minute … this is a big corporation with lots of income. They can afford to give little old me an extra few dollars for almost single-handedly making them the highest selling Cracker Barrel in 32 states for 6 years running. I deserve it.” I really didn’t want to sound arrogant and lose my status as a “team player,” but I knew I could get paid more (on reputation alone) if I walked into the Cracker Barrel a few miles down the road. But truth be told, I didn’t want to do that because I was walking distance from work, and my cats really like my apartment. I wouldn’t want to have to uproot them. Also, I’d developed such a rapport with the neighborhood and pretty much couldn’t walk anywhere without getting a high five or at least a fist bump. I really fed off that. Also there was a disaster in the area right before I moved out there that I helped clean up when I arrived. Apparently this girl Karina had ruined the whole neighborhood with graffiti. I got right in there was scrubbing away with the locals. I don’t think they ever forgot that I did that.

So not to get too specific, but I only make like $18,000 a year at the Cracker Barrel. To be really honest with you, Drew, I’d probably be more comfortable closer to $23,000. Anyway, I started listening to Mickey again right as he was making the point that the other Cracker Barrels wouldn’t care nearly as much about me as this one did. Then he asked me something I’ll never forget. He said, “Is the history you have here worth throwing away for a few extra bucks?”

I knew he was only asking that so that I’d think of all the good times I’d had there and that would maybe make the raise seem insignificant. Damn. It worked. I pretended like I thought it was a rhetorical question so I wouldn’t have to lie. But the truth was that he did have a point. I would never leave the Biloxi Cracker Barrel. If I really thought about it, the people I worked with there were the closest thing to a family I’d ever had (and I have cats!). Even though I couldn’t stand some of them (specifically one of the dishwashers, Manuel, who continually misunderstood me when I told him I didn’t want a back massage while on the clock).

Also, I’ve heard some real horror stories about other Cracker Barrels. There’s one in Atlanta you couldn’t pay me to go into.

At this point our rescue car had arrived. I just told Mickey we’d talk more later. But I knew I’d never bring it up again. I mean, everyone in the world could use more money, but not everyone in the world is lucky enough to like where they work and have people they actually don’t mind working with (except Manuel). Sure it might be nice to have more money, maybe a microwave in my apartment. But who the needs the radiation anyway, you know. That’s all I need: some third half-nipple growing on my stomach.

Anyway, I don’t really know all the details of your situation, but hopefully my story helped you. Oh, and when you write your response letter, please address it the Jackson County Jail in Mississippi (in care of Toby Guestwash). Yes I am in jail at the moment, but it’s not what you think. I’m not a criminal or anything. I just got into this weird situation with Judy Dench a while back, and I’ll be hanging out here until my name is cleared (which should be any day now).



Your best friend,

Toby Guestwash

p.s. I heard that you’re allergic to dairy. Me too! Me and this other inmate, White Power Ted, were horsing around and he was trying to force milk down my throat, and I threw up all over him. It was so classic. But he got the electric chair last week.

[Nark Order]

9ers/Broncos in preseason. Jesus.

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe src="http://www.funnyordie.com/embed/eeca4e7ae6" width="640" height="400" frameborder="0"></iframe><div style="text-align:left;font-size:x-small;margin-top:0;width:640px;"><a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/eeca4e7ae6/vince-young-for-towels" title="from Vince Young, Avin Das, Brad, Funny Or Die, Alex Richanbach, and Dashiell Driscoll">Vince Young for Towels</a> from <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/vince_young">Vince Young</a> <iframe src="http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=138711277798&amp;href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2Fvideos%2Feeca4e7ae6%2Fvince-young-for-towels&amp;send=false&amp;layout=button_count&amp;width=150&amp;show_faces=false&amp;action=like&amp;height=21" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" style="border:none; overflow:hidden; width:90px; height:21px; vertical-align:middle;" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
</div>

[CSL]

A speech recorded by a documentary filmmaker allegedly captures former New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams imploring his players to injure specific San Francisco 49ers the night before January's NFC Wild Card Game.

In the speech, captured by filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, Williams delivers a fiery, profanity-laced speech urging Saints players to inflict harm on several 49ers, including quarterback Alex Smith, running back Frank Gore, and receivers Michael Crabtree and Kyle Williams.


"At one point Williams says, 'We hit (expletive) Smith right there' -- then he points under his chin (and continues) -- 'remember me,' " Pamphilon told Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports. "Then he rubs his thumb against his index and middle fingers -- the cash sign -- and says, 'I got the first one. I got the first one. Go get it. Go lay that (expletive) out.' "

It's unknown if the NFL got a hold of this audio during its investigation of the Saints' "bounty" program. League spokesman Greg Aiello would not comment on the matter when reached by NFL.com.

Pamphilon captured the footage while working on a film about former Saints special teams player Steve Gleason, who suffers from Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

Pamphilon said he believes "there's no doubt at all" that Williams placed a bounty on Smith. Pamphilon emphasized to Yahoo! Sports that Saints coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis were not in the room during Williams' speech.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell will listen Thursday to appeals from the Saints ($500,000 fine, two lost draft picks), Payton (suspension for the 2012 season), Loomis (eight-game suspension), and assistant coach Joe Vitt (six-game suspension).

Williams, who was hired by the St. Louis Rams this offseason, didn't appeal his indefinite suspension.

oops

[James Steele]

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/gregg-williams-bounty-jaguars.jpg

[Next Big Thing]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aowjioghrw9z7kalUNMlxJdDubYF?slug=ms-silver_gregg_williams_speech_saints_49ers_bounty_040412

Fuck Gregg Williams. Dude should never be allowed to coach again. Dude was telling his players to hit Frank Gore in the head (read the full article, he wasn't being metaphorical), take out Crabtree's ACL (it's an unspoken rule that taking out another player's needs is off limits and most guys would rather take a head shot than have their knees chopped out), take out Vernon Davis's ankles and put big shots on a player returning from a concussion.

It's one thing to tell your guys to go for big hits, it's something else to target specific body parts or injuries. The game was never meant to be that and if he was saying that about the 49ers in that playoff game, imagine what he was telling his guys to do against Favre. No sympathy for the A'ints at all. They got what they deserve.

[Kris P Lettus]

Hopefully this shows that Peyton and Loomis had nothing to do with this..

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fhnn9kbqQUA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Nark Order]

Wonder if Donte Whitner got payed for almost murdering Pierre Thomas.

[FearedSanctity]

Hopefully this shows that Peyton and Loomis had nothing to do with this..

No, this works against them and totally fucks Williams. The NFL warned them before the playoffs last year, this shows they chose to ignore it. Whether they directly had anything to do with it is irrelevant in the NFL's eyes, they repeatedly failed to control the guy(s) they're in charge of. It happens everywhere in the world, the actions of a lowly employee can affect everyone above him on the ladder

[Next Big Thing]

This might actually fuck the players involved even more too since it's from the night before their most recent game. If NFL personnel weren't aware of this audio existing when they were interviewing Saints players and coaches, any player who didn't come clean about how long it was going on has been pretty much exposed as a liar and can be suspended merely for lying to the commissioner's office, let alone the bounty program.

[Kris P Lettus]

I still don't think players can be suspended because some of those players play for other teams now (e.g. Porter, Ayodele, Fajita, Dunbar, ect).. It would be unfair to those franchises..

[Kris P Lettus]

And, any illegal hit should have been called on the field and a fine/suspension should have taken place when it happened..

Pretty much be Goodell having to admit he (or the NFL in general) fucked up and wasn't protecting players..

As I said, I'm sure teams like the Steelers had more penalties than the Saints..

[CSL]

and it still happened on Payton's watch, no way he doesn't know about this stuff

pretty staggering audio really, especially after everything related to concussions and head shots that they've been trying to clamp down on. fuck them

[CSL]

Pretty much be Goodell having to admit he (or the NFL in general) fucked up and wasn't protecting players..

there's a difference between not protecting players through inadequacy or poor job performance etc and being publicly outed as having guys specifically go out of there way to attempt to injure/damage the long term health of other professionals. it's like saying Saddam should have been trialed and punished whilst he was committing genocide on his country as a reason to not execute him

[Kris P Lettus]

KO of the Night Bonus

My highschool coach used to talk to us the same way minus actually saying "tear his ACL"..

[CSL]

that just kind of means your high school coach is a bellend :-\

[Kris P Lettus]

Kinda funny to see you and NBT act hypocritical in yr morality in the sports you chose to watch..

[Kris P Lettus]

This type of shit happens at ever level of football..

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/750/318/78803630_crop_650x440.jpg?1298609827

Can't really give a guy making a mil a year a gold star for his helmet..

[CSL]

Kinda funny to see you and NBT act hypocritical in yr morality in the sports you chose to watch..

aye, what's hypocritical here? violence/intensity/being on the edge/crushing people is very much a part of the game and guys get hurt. somebody nails Star Running Back #1 and knocks him out of the game, fair enough, you aren't going to be too sad about that. actively encouraging and sponsoring that is a different thing altogether.

[CSL]

"GO OUT THERE AND KILL THEM!" is hugely different from "there's some extra cash if you hit him in the head, the head the head the head"

[Kris P Lettus]

It could be argued that he was saying that in a metaphorical sense..

"Kill the head, the body dies.."

But, the "test his outside ACL" is the part that got me..

[Nark Order]

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fhnn9kbqQUA" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

Whoa. I know I'm a little bias here cause he's talking about my team here but god damn. Kind of gross to hear that all out loud.

[CSL]

It could be argued that he was saying that in a metaphorical sense..

"Kill the head, the body dies.."

But, the "test his outside ACL" is the part that got me..

absolutely, I was thinking the same thing about how most of it could be construed, especially at the start and it's clearly not a flowing speech/has been cut up to include some of the "juicy bits" but when it comes to the ACL and specific mention of hitting Gore in the head repeatedly etc, there's no other way to interpret that

[Kris P Lettus]

I like this article alot..

April 5, 2012 12:00 AM ET
When Do We Draw the Line on NFL Violence?
By Bill Simmons

Yeah, I heard the audio of former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams urging his players to injure various 49ers before their January playoff game. It's pretty compelling — not just because he wanted to maim Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, and not just because he may have been illegally taped without his consent, but because Williams might be the worst motivational speaker in recent American history. No wonder the Saints lost that game. If that was a sports movie scene, the director would have fired Williams and replaced him with another actor. What a buffoon.

Of course, it's 2012 — the Year of Internet Self-Righteousness — which means we need to feign disgust, pile on the Saints, argue for Williams to receive the NFL's death penalty and basically freak out that a football coach would ever do that. So let's concede the following points. No, you shouldn't instruct your players to hurt people. Yes, you should be fined and suspended for that. Yes, Gregg Williams came off like an insensitive Neanderthal, and yes, it would be difficult (if not impossible) to take him seriously as a coach again. His professional career is over. The tape is pretty damning. Even if it's far-fetched that any Saint listened to that speech and thought to himself, Maybe my creepy weirdo of a coach is right, maybe I SHOULD go after Michael Crabtree's ACL!

But there's a bigger story here: the laughable notion that anyone can change an ingrained culture of violence overnight. Any parent knows that kids never listen the first time — it takes four or five times, and usually a raised voice or a threat, before they heed your wishes. Players and coaches are wired the same way. The league never turned off its "We're gonna look the other way, keep being violent and keep those hits coming" switch until the 2010 season, after that infamous October weekend with all the signature hits, when Roger Goodell said, "Oh, crap, maybe I should start fining these guys because the Sports Legacy Institute has accumulated three-plus years of rock-solid concussion evidence and lawsuits are coming. Better later than never!"

And so the league started cracking down. Less than 18 months later, we're supposed to be baffled and appalled that the Saints would shrug off those warnings, that they wanted to win money for crippling opponents or knocking them out … you know, because football players aren't supposed to think that way or something. (Watching ESPN this morning was pretty funny — it's like every talking head took an oath to forget the network was running "JACKED UP!" segments a few scant years ago.) My two favorite Patriots victories were Super Bowl XXXVI (over the Rams) and the 2003 AFC Championship (when the defense beat up Colts receivers so badly that Colts GM Bill Polian convinced the league to change the line of scrimmage contact rules the following summer). I am not naive enough to believe that, before both of those games, Bill Belichick didn't tell his players, "I want you to beat the absolute crap out of (fill in: Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Ricky Proehl, etc.) and make them remember you the next time they go over the middle … do whatever it takes."

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick uttered something more ominous than that. That's football, a sport in which coaches holler things like, "NOW GO OUT THERE AND KILL THEM!" Do they mean, literally, to murder them? Of course not. It's just the way these meatheads talk. It's the language of their barbaric game. Watch this clip, for God's sake. Normal human beings don't interact like this. When it came out that Williams (and his players) crossed the line, the Saints became The Scapegoat Du Jour for a league that desperately needed one. In case this wasn't clear, everyone, the NFL is taking player safety seriously now! Emphasis on the word "now." It's a transparent ploy to make up for decades of real negligence, as well as mounting evidence that the next generation of football players (any teenager, basically) can be ruined by one concussion. Meanwhile …

1. Football is a really violent sport. There is no right way to play football that doesn't include the words "exert your physical will." Every current player grew up hearing instructions like "I want hats on the ball" (translation: "Lead with your head"), "I want guys swarming the ball" (translation: "If your teammates are tackling someone, come flying in as hard as you can and join them") and "Make them think when they're crossing the middle!" (translation: "Keep hitting the receivers as hard as you can so that they'll start thinking about you instead of the catch"). I'm sure they heard even more vicious and inhumane instructions than that. So deconditioning them (and their coaches) is going to take time. We're going to have some hiccups along the way. Hopefully, Gregg Williams's bizarre "inspirational" speech that was only missing a stretcher and a metal Hannibal Lecter mask will be the biggest hiccup. But I doubt it.

2. Here's what I wrote after Goodell belatedly started cracking down (in October 2010): "[He's] a total hypocrite for pretending to care about the welfare of his players as he's pushing for an 18-game regular season that would lead to more injuries, more concussions, more collateral damage, more everything. Hey, Roger: If you cared about the welfare of the players, you'd shorten the season to 15 games and add another week of byes. Right? But hey, that would cost owners money. Instead, you'll continue to position yourself as the Sheriff of Player Safety, puff out your chest, crack down on hard hits and swagger around like you're Tim Olyphant in Justified."

Allow me to add the following: When will Goodell admit publicly that he waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to start cracking down on violence (and the culture behind it), or that he'll always regret looking the other way as evidence mounted that concussions were infinitely more dangerous than we originally believed? You're telling me Goodell never watched this Real Sports piece about Chris Nowinski, Andre Waters and concussions in 2007? Come on. The man was three years late. On everything. Maybe that's not as bad as what Gregg Williams did, but Goodell's not exactly one of the heroes of this sordid story, either. You looked the other way, Roger. You did.

3. As Peter King wrote in his column this week, the same league that's making such a fuss about violence ran a show called 10 Most Feared Tacklers on its own network last week. The truth is, the NFL doesn't know what the hell it wants. It's the most successful sports league ever; the value of its franchises has never been higher; its television money haul has never been greater. Only there's an elephant in the room — and it's not the Williams tape, Bountygate or even the hundreds of concussion-related lawsuits from former players that are coming. If they change how football is played and turn it into a glorified version of the Pro Bowl, there's a chance people won't like the sport as much.

So what do you do? You pretend you care. You make an example of the Saints. You crack down on the language of your game. You overreact to cheap hits, and you fine players because sometimes they can't control their bodies at 18 miles an hour in the split second after an opponent ducks his head. You lean on media cronies and convince them to spin stories your way. You hope and pray nobody notices, and that CTE awareness never moves into the mainstream. But meanwhile, your players are bigger and faster than ever, and they're colliding at speeds at which human beings aren't meant to collide.

You're walking a tightrope, basically. Only one thing can save you: the knowledge that fans won't really care because of the whole "people just want to eat steak, they don't care how it's made" mentality. Sadly, that's the best thing you have going for you. Before yesterday's Cardinals-Marlins game, I watched Muhammad Ali (one of my childhood heroes) trembling so severely that he couldn't throw the first pitch. Poor Ali could only hand the baseball to Miami's catcher … and he could barely do that. Boxing did that to him. He took too many punches; now he's a quivering mess. I noticed this, digested it and felt absolutely horrible about it.

Yes, I will keep watching boxing.

Which makes me a hypocrite.

That's what the NFL is banking on these next few years — hypocrisy, basically — as more stories emerge about the tortured lives of retired players. Many of them can't walk, sit down or remember anything. Some battle debilitating headaches and gulp down pills like they're peanuts. A few weeks ago, Jim McMahon confessed in an interview that his short-term memory was gone, then admitted he wouldn't even remember the interview as he was giving it. You hear these things, you sigh, you feel remorse, you forget … and then you go back to looking forward to the next football season. Gregg Williams crossed the line; he won't be there. I just wish someone would decide, once and for all, where that line really is.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7779341/when-do-draw-line-nfl-violence

[Hanso Amore]

This type of shit happens at ever level of football..

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/750/318/78803630_crop_650x440.jpg?1298609827

Can't really give a guy making a mil a year a gold star for his helmet..

Those stickers come from making plays and scoring, etc. Not for injuring someone on purpose. Come on now.

[Kris P Lettus]

Plays that on the NFL level would make "Jacked Up" segment on ESPN??

BTW


AdamSchefter on Twitter: Sources close to Saints said Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis directed Gregg Williams to ensure no inappropriate conduct would occur.

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamschefter/status/187934820310065153

[Next Big Thing]

Kinda funny to see you and NBT act hypocritical in yr morality in the sports you chose to watch..

Are you seriously trying to make a parallel? That's laughable.

In boxing, mixed martial arts and football there's an assumption of risk that all participants are aware of. Especially today with so much advancement in medicine and knowledge of trauma. Boxers and MMA fighters know the other guy is going to try to knock him out or submit him just like football players know the other guy is going to try to knock the snot out of him. Being tackled is as much a part of football as being punched is a part of combat sports.

HOWEVER, just as fighters can reasonably expect to have a clean match devoid of low blows, rabbit punches, wraps laced with plaster of paris and eye gouges, football players should be able to play the game without worrying about the opposing side purposely trying to concuss them or injure them by targeting their knees. Just as boxing fans can be upset when someone like Antonio Margarito gets caught with loaded gloves, football fans can be disgusted by the idea of an opposing coach telling his players to target a guy's ACL.

I don't give a damn about coaches using war rhetoric, violent imagery, cursing and even telling their players to try to decleet a guy coming back from injury to see if he's skittish. Williams went beyond that. There's no way in hell you can say it's okay for him to advocate going after another players ACL or telling his guys to purposely hit Frank Gore in the head when concussion awareness and prevention is at the top of the NFL's agenda and there is medical evidence of the long term effects of concussions. If you can't see the difference between advocating and celebrating clean, hard hits (which players expect) and a coach telling players to go after a guy's ACL, you need to take some time and think about it.

[Gonzo]

The Saints got the hammer dropped primarily two reasons: they lied to the league about the extent of the program. Two, even though the hypocrisy piles up to the moon, the league is pushing a "safer" playing field. The league is currently being sued by former players and by punishing the Saints for this behavior they're furthering their own agenda in that regard.

Gregg Williams is probably not the only coach to ever tell his players to go out and target another player or injure them intentionally. It probably isn't widespread but that's irrelevant anyways. The fact is, whether Payton or Loomis gave directives or not, that the program existed with their knowledge and they didn't stop it. That's why they're included in the punishment. Are the Saints the only organization to have had a bounty program? No. It's the degree to which it was operated and the organization's (mostly the individuals responsible) reaction after the league found out.

The comparison of the Saints' bounty program to any college team is absurd. If you can't draw the distinction between the two I don't care to discuss it.

That being said...

The NFL's message about player safety is complete garbage. The league has been hypocritical right along the way about the violence and their policies and actions. If the league was serious about curbing injuries or concussions the steps would be very simple. For example, mandating mouth pieces, which are proven to mitigate concussions more than any other measure. It's all a grand facade being thrown up because the league is getting sued for the shit retired players go through.

[Kris P Lettus]

Again.. (https://mobile.twitter.com/adamschefter/status/187934820310065153)

[CSL]

surely you don't warn somebody to "not use inappropriate conduct" without a reason or a suspicion to do so. not to mention the "Saints sources" are hardly gonna come out and be like "yah, our head coach knew all along"

[Gonzo]

The fact is, whether Payton or Loomis gave directives or not, that the program existed with their knowledge and they didn't stop it.

Again.. (https://mobile.twitter.com/adamschefter/status/187934820310065153)

Again.

Regardless of whether or not Payton and Loomis told Williams to ensure no illegal conduct was occurring (and this is form an internal source from the Saints organization mind you) they ultimately did not prevent the bounty program, or in this case, prevent the bounty program from continuing. This does not absolve them of guilt. If someone you're in charge of fucks up, deliberately or otherwise, it is ultimately your responsibility. Gregg Williams isn't a scapegoat here and I think you have misplaced the responsibility of the parties involved here.

[Droford]

Ed Reed isn’t the only Baltimore safety making eyebrow-raising comments on talk radio this week (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-ed-reed-continues-to-keep-the-offseason-interesting-20120405,0,7516683.story?track=rss). Strong safety Bernard Pollard, a man of strong opinions who is certainly not shy about sharing them, appeared on KILT in Houston to talk about the New Orleans Saints and their recent bounty scandal.
Asked if he felt the league was marketing violence and condemning it at the same time, Pollard, the heaviest hitter in the Ravens secondary, said he understands that the NFL and commissioner Roger Goodell have a job to do, but he feels there are too many restrictions when it comes to physical play (http://deadspin.com/5899189/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow).
“It's getting out of hand,” Pollard said. “This is not powderpuff football, this is not flag football. This is a violent sport. And it's a fun sport. We all love playing this game. And we're blessed by God to even go out there and display our talent to the world, but at the same time you can't sit there and say, ‘We want guts, we want glory, we want heart.' You can't give a player heart but at the end of the day you tell him, "Well, hold on but be careful when you go to make that hit.' We wear helmets and shoulder pads. That means you're supposed to go knock somebody around. We ain't wearing flags."


"I don't care if you do a bounty or not, because me -- the way I'm playing -- I'm going to hit you straight in the mouth,” he said. “And if you have a concussion by me hitting you in the mouth … You know what? I don't mean to. I'm not meaning to hurt you, but this is my game. It's my life or your life, it's my family or yours. Not saying we're trying to kill each other but we're playing for something.”
Pollard doesn’t think the increased emphasis on player safety is changing how the Ravens play. “No matter how many flags you throw, we're not changing the way we play the game of football,” he said.


Give the league 4-5 years where the majority of the defensive players just started in the NFL and haven't been around that long and I guarantee the quality of the game will start to suffer if they're going to pass bs rules and stuff down to protect their asses from lawsuits down the road, its ridiculous. I honestly hope that if that becomes more apparent in the quality of the games in the future that the NFL will realize what they're doing and stop it, or maybe another league forms that brings back the unrestricted gameplay..Im pretty sure people would watch.

[Krimzon7]

Fuck all of this gay ass protect the players shit. Where we're the bleeding hearts when that raggot from Pittsburgh took out Carson Palmer during their 04(?) wild card game? Where we're the calls when Vick is taking vicious shots? This is football, the sport is violent, coaching the players takes foul mouthed aggressive tacticians that should never be judged by society's bland standards. Fuck goddell, fuck the snitch, fuck these faggot ass people who don't know a chinstrap from a jockstrap passing goddamn judgement.



It's goddam muthafucking football

[Krimzon7]

Just take off th shoulder pads and put on the maxi pads. This game is gonna be for pussies in five years

[Droford]

Im sure that theres a bunch of people who love a 62-51 game more than anything in the world, but football without defense is pointless to me. If you aren't going to try to stop the other team, why the hell even put a defense on the field.

[Next Big Thing]

Im sure that theres a bunch of people who love a 62-51 game more than anything in the world, but football without defense is pointless to me. If you aren't going to try to stop the other team, why the hell even put a defense on the field.

Shut up. The average points per game per NFL team was 22.2 this season. Do you know what it was back in 1985 when everyone was copying the 46? 21.8. 1995? 21.5 Do you know what it was back in 1965? 23.1.

The sky is not falling. The changes aren't so drastic that they're affecting the game or making it unwatchable.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

[FearedSanctity]

stfu NBT. Why make logical and informed statements when you can make over dramatic exaggerations?! COME ON MAN, GET WITH IT

[Blakeamus]

You know, I heard the audio and to be perfectly honest...5% of what was said shocked me. Going after a man with a concussion or who had a torn ACL is real pathetic of Williams. I have given up on the team that I've always followed and became really excited for the past 3 seasons. I find it funny though that the day of the appeal, this audio comes out. Where was this when the cat was out of the bag?

[Krimzon7]

Shut up. The average points per game per NFL team was 22.2 this season. Do you know what it was back in 1985 when everyone was copying the 46? 21.8. 1995? 21.5 Do you know what it was back in 1965? 23.1.

The sky is not falling. The changes aren't so drastic that they're affecting the game or making it unwatchable.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

I have gotten used to the fact that the I formation, the pro set, and various running related aspects of the game are being phased out. My gripe (and I know you're responding to somebody else, but this inspired me to post with rationality-which you do a lot) is that the powers that be are phasing out the physicality that literally gives defenses any shred of hope to affect a game. The 49ers were so goddamn good this year cause they played throwback defense. Those DB's played like mike singletary. These guys hit, they don't make any bones about the bad intentions with how they play. I can guarantee they had a bounty system.

It's just a way of life, blame whoever made the choice to release injury reports for this madness. It's literally the escalation that was bound to happen from such an occurrence. Coaches, players, GM's et al are all pretty much playing week to week for their jobs. Why wouldn't I gameplan, and incent towards a teams weakest link?


There has to be something in the Art of War relating to this...

[Next Big Thing]

stfu NBT. Why make logical and informed statements when you can make over dramatic exaggerations?! COME ON MAN, GET WITH IT

Haha! I guess that's why Narc calls me Storm.

[Ermaximus]

Just never let Williams coach again anywhere and this problem might go away.

[Kris P Lettus]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7781880

[Kris P Lettus]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7782050&s=espn

[CSL]

Fuck all of this gay ass protect the players shit. Where we're the bleeding hearts when that raggot from Pittsburgh took out Carson Palmer during their 04(?) wild card game? Where we're the calls when Vick is taking vicious shots? This is football, the sport is violent, coaching the players takes foul mouthed aggressive tacticians that should never be judged by society's bland standards. Fuck goddell, fuck the snitch, fuck these faggot ass people who don't know a chinstrap from a jockstrap passing goddamn judgement.



It's goddam muthafucking football

Just take off th shoulder pads and put on the maxi pads. This game is gonna be for pussies in five years

I really hope there's a high amount of tongue-wedged-in-cheek here

[Kris P Lettus]

Why was it not a big deal after the NFC Championship for that Giants DB to say they had "tested" Kyle Wilson's concussions??

[Next Big Thing]

Why was it not a big deal after the NFC Championship for that Giants DB to say they had "tested" Kyle Wilson's concussions??

Seriously Kris P, you're my dude, but what are you not understanding here?

The clips you posted are meaningless, because I don't think anyone disagrees with those points. I don't think serious NFL fans are taken aback by the language, euphemisms or metaphors and if they are, they need to open their eyes and ears or watch a halfway decent sports movie. I don't care about locker room rhetoric, it's a violent sport. The NFL Network runs blooper reels of Gruden rattling off curse words like it's a highlight. Saying something about a player's injury and testing it, is a part of the strategy in almost any sport and if the injured player is in some sort of long term danger, he shouldn't be in the game.

My problem (and I think the problem most people have) is the fact that Williams instructed players to go after the ACL of another player and told his guys to hit Gore in the head knowing damn well the effect of concussions. It's magnified due to the fact that the Saints had a bounty program for three years that paid guys for things like "Knock Outs" and "Cart Offs." Even the people who say "that's just a part of the language of the game" concede he crossed the line when he talked about going after Crabtree's knee and hitting Gore in the head.

[Kris P Lettus]

How are you not understanding that this same conversation happens in more locker rooms than just the Saints'??

I'm not condoning what he said by any means, but it is pretty ridiculous how seemingly 70% of NFL fans are reacting to it..

The only mistake Williams made (besides letting the Steve Gleason documentarian in the meeting) was "specifying".. Pretty much the same thing as saying "GO OUT THERE AND MURDER SOMEBODY" etc..

[Next Big Thing]

How are you not understanding that this same conversation happens in more locker rooms than just the Saints'?

The idea that coaches telling players to go after the ACLs of opposing players is common is inane and every player who speaks on this, including Mike Golic and Tim Hasselbeck, say they've never heard such things and don't agree.

"Go out there and murder somebody" (i.e., hit him hard and dominate) is not the same as "Hit him in the ACL" (i.e. hit him in a specific area that can end his career). If you believe that is something that is common in locker rooms or those two things are the same, you're naive or your ability to comprehend the difference is distorted by the fact that you're a fan of the team involved.

[Kris P Lettus]

The idea that coaches telling players to go after the ACLs of opposing players is common is inane and every player who speaks on this, including Mike Golic and Tim Hasselbeck, say they've never heard such things and don't agree.



What??

Golic said that one of the offensive coaches requested the offense to go after an opposing player's knees at halftime of a game..

[Next Big Thing]

What??

Golic said that one of the offensive coaches requested the offense to go after an opposing player's knees at halftime of a game..

Golic also said that he didn't agree with it and none of the players in the locker room followed the directive. If you listened to that show, he cited it as the one time he heard it, it was in response to a dirty play committed on one of their players before the half and none of the players followed through with the directive. Dirty play garners retaliation in almost all sports. I remember playing middle school ball and our coach telling the entire defensive line to pile on the tackle because he kept hitting us in the nuts. I don't have a problem with that because AGAIN, if you play dirty like that, you're assuming the risk that someone will respond accordingly.

Going after Crabtree's ACL, before the game even starts is premeditated and designed to take him out. It wasn't like Williams was telling guys to do it because he was out there making crack back blocks on DBs. Again, you need to be able to look at the context and circumstances before you try to make a parallel.

Furthermore, he said numerous times on his show today and in the past that he was against targeting players in their knees and it's an unwritten rule with players not to do that. Maybe I should have made a distinction, but I have no interest in arguing semantics or the Kane Knight approach of straw man arguing. All I know is guys like Darren Woodson, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin, Brian Billick, etc... have all said he was wrong for targeting a player's knee in a premeditated manner like that and if that is common locker room rhetoric I think it's safe to assume those guys wouldn't have such positions on the matter.

[Kris P Lettus]

I didn't say I agree with it, and have actually said the ACL part was the worst of it..

I'm just saying, acting like Greg Williams is the first coach to act like this and the Saints were the first team to do something like this is just being ignorant..

[Kris P Lettus]

Also, I'm sure when this whole mess was first mentioned and when the stories started to come out, was when Peyton and Co decided to let him move on..

[CSL]

I didn't say I agree with it, and have actually said the ACL part was the worst of it..

I'm just saying, acting like Greg Williams is the first coach to act like this and the Saints were the first team to do something like this is just being ignorant..

nobody is acting like that. it's not like people can chastise every single coach in the league without any kind of basis. your guys are just simply the ones who got caught.

[Kris P Lettus]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-0RdgzlUseguByIeXlv8Jy3nhqis92MrVSExXq__HaS6rLc25Gm_j-Ppi

[Next Big Thing]

I didn't say I agree with it, and have actually said the ACL part was the worst of it..

I'm just saying, acting like Greg Williams is the first coach to act like this and the Saints were the first team to do something like this is just being ignorant..

He isn't and the Saints weren't the first team to do it. However, the Saints are the team that is on the record as having a bounty program with tens of thousands of documents including emails to Payton that prove its existence over a three year period. The audio is from a Saints defensive meeting.

So yeah, the Saints probably aren't the only team that had something like that, but they are the only team that got caught at the moment and trying to say "Yeah, but look at what this guy from this team said from that one game" or "They were doing it too" doesn't really change any of the facts as they pertain to the Saints situation.

[Kris P Lettus]

But it should change how fans are reacting to it..

[Kris P Lettus]

Even though he played for the Bucs, I still love the guy..

Warren Sapp files for bankruptcy.. (http://www.tmz.com/2012/04/06/warren-sapp-broke-super-bowl-ring/#.T39kqfVTB20)

Was the painting large or the women in it??

:(

[Kris P Lettus]

Or the woman who painted it..

[FearedSanctity]

Incarcerated Bob ‏ @incarceratedbob

**NFL UPDATED RUMOR**Source: Jets shopping Mark Sanchez (HARD) so far minimal interest nobody biting yet. Source confirms Rex wants him gone

[Nark Order]

lol incredible

[James Steele]

:lol:

Jets are so fucking dumb. He is a solid QB and they just got bit in the ass by trading so much to get him at #5 and putting unrealistic expectations on the kid. They need to get back to running the football, playing solid defense, and putting Sanchez in good situations. If they really think Tebow is the solution then they can go back to the drizzling shits. I don't like Sanchez, but acting like he is the reason for the Jets failure this year is beyond ludicrous.

[Emperor Smeat]

:lol: at the Jets. The Tebow trade was pretty dumb but at least in theory the plan was to use him to mix up their offense while Sanchez did the normal style.

:rofl: at nobody being interested

To be fair to Sanchez, it was more of the fans and media that kept portraying him as the next Brady and the stupid "Sanchise" term than the organization itself. Management got too dumb for just trying to act like the Giants without actually realizing the Giants worked hard for years to get as good as they got.

[CSL]

I'll believe it when I see it aka see it posted by Schefter, LaCanfora etc

[FearedSanctity]

I'll believe it when I see it aka see it posted by Schefter, LaCanfora etc

If it's any consolation IB is followed by Schefter, also...


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I humble @<a href="https://twitter.com/IncarceratedBob">IncarceratedBob</a> today he break all the sports news before ass licking @<a href="https://twitter.com/Profootballtalk">Profootballtalk</a></p>&mdash; The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/187568558388162562" data-datetime="2012-04-04T15:53:23+00:00">April 4, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>if you dont respect the <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%2523IBNGoonSquad">#IBNGoonSquad</a> or legend @<a href="https://twitter.com/IncarceratedBob">IncarceratedBob</a> you are worse than motherfucker hulk hogan or raisin balls Jose Canseco</p>&mdash; The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/187571561241391104" data-datetime="2012-04-04T16:05:19+00:00">April 4, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-in-reply-to="187570814416195587"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob">incarceratedbob</a> you are the real legend. you most intelligent in the football and sports. you make it to hall of fame like the sheikie baby</p>&mdash; The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/187572546273689601" data-datetime="2012-04-04T16:09:14+00:00">April 4, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-in-reply-to="187573060331769857"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob">incarceratedbob</a> fuck the haters who dont respect the bob, you like Bob Backlund you the real your not like that fucking bitch @<a href="https://twitter.com/JoseCanseco">JoseCanseco</a></p>&mdash; The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/187573778736357376" data-datetime="2012-04-04T16:14:08+00:00">April 4, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[James Steele]

What the hell? Iron Shiek is brilliant. He has somehow made himself marketable as a batshit crazy retired wrestler who can barely walk.

[FearedSanctity]

IB also saying Sanchez can be had for "a 3rd or better". Not surprised, Rex said he wanted to get Tebow at least 20 snaps a game, about a third of what a typical offense averages. If you're willing to give him that much before OTAs even start, you're pretty clearly open to the idea of him starting eventually

[James Steele]

Can't wait for the Jets to go to shit. Rex Ryan will get shitcanned and will reignite their rivalry with the Buffalo Bills for the AFC Irrelevancy Championship.

[Droford]

Shut up. The average points per game per NFL team was 22.2 this season. Do you know what it was back in 1985 when everyone was copying the 46? 21.8. 1995? 21.5 Do you know what it was back in 1965? 23.1.

The sky is not falling. The changes aren't so drastic that they're affecting the game or making it unwatchable.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

Looking over the stats, the scoring was the highest its been in the 32 team era dating back to 02, and 3 of the last 4 seasons have been at 22 ppg or more. As for 1985, the following 9 years showed a huge drop off in team average scoring, with at one point the average was 299 points per season vs 344 in 85 and 354 in 2011.

In 1985 there was only 1 QB that threw for over 4,000 yards (Marino). In 2011, there were 10 that threw for over 4,000 and 4 that threw for over 5,000. I would dare say that in the era of protected QBs and rules against defenders that you could see a 6,000 yard passing season from someone in the next couple of years (its only about 30 yards per game more to what Brees did last year to get to 6000). Some of this has come at the expense of the running game..which is another argument entirely.

2011 had 3 of the top 12 highest scoring teams in NFL History (Packers #2 35.0, Saints #4 34.2 and Patriots #12 32.1) 5 of the top 12 are 2007 or later (the 2007 Patriots #1 and 2010 Patriots #10)

The 2011 Bucs were the 7th worst team in points allowed (30.9).

Im a big fan of defense..and you cannot say that the rule changes the nfl has made over the last couple years have been in any favor of the defenses.

[James Steele]

Droford, it is the evolution of football. The NFL wants more regular season games to make more money and if they make it where players can last longer than it will be easier to do so.

[FearedSanctity]

Comparing the NFL now to 27 years ago is fucking retarded. Since then, and not just because of the rules, teams have started passing WAAAAAAAY more. It's a whole different world now. Hell just 6 years ago a RB breaking 1000 yards was a big deal, now anything less than that in a season is considered an off year. Styles and the quality of players change, the rules hardly effect shit other than the length of a player's career

[Next Big Thing]

Looking over the stats, the scoring was the highest its been in the 32 team era dating back to 02, and 3 of the last 4 seasons have been at 22 ppg or more. As for 1985, the following 9 years showed a huge drop off in team average scoring, with at one point the average was 299 points per season vs 344 in 85 and 354 in 2011.

In 1985 there was only 1 QB that threw for over 4,000 yards (Marino). In 2011, there were 10 that threw for over 4,000 and 4 that threw for over 5,000. I would dare say that in the era of protected QBs and rules against defenders that you could see a 6,000 yard passing season from someone in the next couple of years (its only about 30 yards per game more to what Brees did last year to get to 6000). Some of this has come at the expense of the running game..which is another argument entirely.

2011 had 3 of the top 12 highest scoring teams in NFL History (Packers #2 35.0, Saints #4 34.2 and Patriots #12 32.1) 5 of the top 12 are 2007 or later (the 2007 Patriots #1 and 2010 Patriots #10)

The 2011 Bucs were the 7th worst team in points allowed (30.9).

Im a big fan of defense..and you cannot say that the rule changes the nfl has made over the last couple years have been in any favor of the defenses.

You are so flawed. Not just in life, but in the way you present your arguments. For whatever reason, you provide all of this offensive data, but neglect to acknowledge the actual defensive statistics.

All the rules related to hits and quarterback protection were implemented in the 2009 season. That year, the average team scored 21.5 points per game. The Saints, Vikings, Colts and Jets were the teams that made it to the conference championships. All of those teams, except the Saints, had a defenses ranked in the TOP 10. Those were some good offenses in that mix too, so that season would prove your point except for the fact that in the following two seasons, 5 of the 8 teams that played in the Conference championship had better defenses than they did offenses.

In 2010, the average team scored 22 points per game (same PPG as the 2008 year in the period before the rule changes). The Steelers, Jets, Packers and Bears were the teams that made it to the conference championships. All of those teams, except for the Jets, had a defense ranked in the TOP 5. The Jets were #6. Of those teams, only the Packers had a TOP 10 overall offense.

In 2011, the average team scored 22.2 points per game. The Giants, 49ers, Ravens and Patriots made it to the conference championships. The Ravens and 49ers were the #2 and #3 ranked defenses respectively. The Patriots were 15 and the Giants were 25. Neither the Jets or Ravens had TOP 10 offenses either. Don't forget that both of those teams had a shit ton of luck (i.e., fumbles, missed field goals) getting to the Superbowl in those Conference games. It's not like the offenses for the Giants and Patriots went out and won 45-6.

So how is it that top defenses are hampered, yet in the three seasons since the major rule changes, 9 of the 12 teams playing in the conference championships were TOP 10 defensively and in many cases carried their offenses? Also, the NFL is a copycat league. With every team running some version of the Spread, it makes sense for passing yards to go up. However, if you look at the number of total touchdowns top defenses gave up in 2011 and compare them to the total number of touchdowns in 2001, 2002, 2003, etc... you'll see that the numbers are less or almost identical.

[Next Big Thing]

Tim Tebow is speaking at a Texas church on Easter and 20,000 people are expected to show up. Dude has a future as a televangelist. He'd probably make as much money from that as Brady and Manning do from playing QB anyways.

Really hope the Jets do Hard Knocks again. If only to see Sexy Rexy wreck snack tables.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Dave Tollefson signs a 2 year, $2.5 million deal with the Raiders. Gonna miss him.</font>

[Innovator]

Fuck.

[Gertner]

Warren Sapp files for bankruptcy. Typical nigger.

[Triple Naitch]

lol :nono:

[Kris P Lettus]

NFL players drinking (http://www.shotofginn.com/)

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QK8lf4VuEEU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kris P Lettus]

Reaction to Tebow.. (http://rosterwatch.com/?p=2881)

[Crimson]

So who do you guys want your teams to draft this month??

Cowboys at 14 I want either Barron, Cox, or DeCastro..thats it. I know they can't go corner, and Jerrah seems to be pushing for the d-line. But if Decastro is there I dont care if we signed 2 free agent guards they arent the long term answer, we have to take him if he's there. So yea one of those 3 i'll be a happy camper

[Nark Order]

Alshon Jeffrey, for the win.

[FearedSanctity]

A fucking CB. Champ and Goodman are 33, and Porter has potential but he's only here on a one year "prove it" deal, so there's a chance he doesn't stick around. Also Goodman is garbage. DT is deep enough this draft that they can wait until the second to grab one, but nowadays in the NFL you're essentially screwed if you don't have 3 solid CBs and while Denver is alright this year with Bailey, Porter and Harris/Squid next year will prob blow given the Porter situation, Bailey potentially moving to safety and Harris and Squid both being best as a nickel

[FearedSanctity]

Incarcerated Bob ‏ @incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: Jets have officially received an offer from a NFC TEAM on Mark Sanchez (4th Rd Pick) no response from Jets yet

[Kris P Lettus]

It's the Vikings..

[Gonzo]

I want to see the Giants draft an OT or a LB.

[Kris P Lettus]

https://p.twimg.com/ApaUem5CIAEkeqJ.png

[FearedSanctity]

A island

[Krimzon7]

I really hope there's a high amount of tongue-wedged-in-cheek here

Yes , partially. I hate it that this situation is coming to light. Bounties, brutality and injuries are all a part of football. I dont like roger goddell, but I understand that he's commissioner of the most visible league in the most transparent society. But society also has to acknowledge that they're pussies, and there is no way to understand what athletes go through. They can't understand what motivates them to perform at a level to entertain.

Some secrets of the trade should never have to be explained.

[Krimzon7]

Warren Sapp files for bankruptcy. Typical nigger.

You try so hard...:nono:

[Krimzon7]

Reaction to Tebow.. (http://rosterwatch.com/?p=2881)

Tebow may be the Antichrist.

[Skippord]

I want the Broncos to draft Janoris Jenkins, doubt they will though.

[FearedSanctity]

Was Kirkpatrick still sliding because of weed? I'll take him

[Skippord]

I think they dropped the charges against him, but if he's there I would prefer him

[James Steele]

Jerry Jones, please give me a reason to not look forward to your death.

[Innovator]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/knyMRGVSsE4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[FearedSanctity]

Broncos going balls out for Brock Osweiler apparently, sending damn near everyone to a private workout with him. Elway, Fox, McCoy, QB coach Gase and GM Xanders all went.

I think I approve

[Kris P Lettus]

Goodell uphold all punishment in Saints "Bounty" case..

click (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-orleans-saints-bounty-scandal-appeal-denied-sean-payton-mickey-loomis-040912)

[Emperor Smeat]

Makes sense since that would be almost impossible for him to overturn anything especially when it comes to protecting the image of the league and their image of working to take out dirty/dangerous hits from the game.

Kind of impossible for non-player punishments to get overturned since it would mean the commish has to disagree with his own punishment and admit to making a mistake.

[Kris P Lettus]

I'm still kinda hoping Tuna comes in but I'm thinking they wait till right before Training Camp to officially come in.. That way, Peyton can talk to him all the way through summer and there will be no repercussions.. This appeal did buy Peyton some time cause now he is still around until the 16th instead of the 1st..

[Next Big Thing]

That's a pretty clever idea. Does the NFL not have some sort of deadline for teams to have head coaches officially designated? I know that after a certain date teams can't interview coaches on another team's staff, but this is such a unique situation.

I don't think the Saints would wait that long though. It's such a good idea that it would almost be like laughing in Goodell's face and I don't think they want any more ill will from the league or fans. It's so twisted because NOLA is such a beloved city and everyone was rooting for the Saints, but now they might be the team everyone loves to hate.

[James Steele]

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/knyMRGVSsE4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

How many owners do fucking commercials? How about you fucking pull your head out of your ass and make the team better instead of just making money. You shriveled up old sack of shit.

[Next Big Thing]

He's the new Al Davis.

[James Steele]

He's the new Al Davis.

Al Davis actually cared about winning more than PR. Jerry Jones wants to be the star of the Cowboys. He's never gotten over the fact that everyone gives Jimmy Johnson credit for those SuperBowls and not him.

[Innovator]

RT @mortreport: Bill Parcells is certain to remain retired and not serve as the Saints' interim head coach, per sources. More coming on ESPN

[Kris P Lettus]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuck

[James Steele]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: Cry coonasses cry. That is what y'all get for being so fucking obnoxious after obtaining success.

[Requiem]

I'm still kinda hoping Tuna comes in but I'm thinking they wait till right before Training Camp to officially come in.. That way, Peyton can talk to him all the way through summer and there will be no repercussions.. This appeal did buy Peyton some time cause now he is still around until the 16th instead of the 1st..

*Payton

The guy has only been your team's head coach for like 6 years. Only annoys me because people misspell Peyton Manning as Payton Manning all the time.

[Next Big Thing]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: Cry coonasses cry. That is what y'all get for being so fucking obnoxious after obtaining success.

The fact that you know that term brings a smile to my face Steele.

[James Steele]

The fact that you know that term brings a smile to my face Steele.

I live an hour away from Shreveport, LA and all our news is based out of Shreveport so I've gotten to see them all go from Cowboys fans to slobbering on the Saints cocks. Our Fox affiliate a few years ago started doing text polls to see whether they would show the Cowboys or Saints game. Shit like that never happened prior to them winning. It was blue and silver until you killed your liver!

[Kris P Lettus]

I live an hour away from Shreveport, LA and all our news is based out of Shreveport so I've gotten to see them all go from Cowboys fans to slobbering on the Saints cocks. Our Fox affiliate a few years ago started doing text polls to see whether they would show the Cowboys or Saints game. Shit like that never happened prior to them winning. It was blue and silver until you killed your liver!

When the movie business went to Shrev after Katrina, I sat in my car and LISTENED to a 3-13 season on my Sirius Satellite Radio because of their "local" Cowboys coverage..

Don't ever act like I am a bandwagon fan..

I'll make a bet right now that the Saints will have more wins than the Cowboys this coming season..

[Kris P Lettus]

*Payton

The guy has only been your team's head coach for like 6 years. Only annoys me because people misspell Peyton Manning as Payton Manning all the time.

For the 3 years you've been a fan?? Bet that's been real hard on you..

[Kris P Lettus]

Also, Garnett having 20(+) points and 10(+) boards will def help..

[Droford]

Parcells is eligible to go in the HOF this year, I doubt he'll do anything to ruin that since him coming back to coach resets the time he has to wait to be eligible again.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Everyone here is a bandwagon fan except for me and Hanso. That is a fact.

[Innovator]

And owenbrown.

[Gonzo]

I've bled blue since day one. Don't ever fucking question that. Atmosphere reference.

[Droford]

Everyone here is a bandwagon fan except for me and Hanso. That is a fact.
No one would ever question how much of a fan I am of the Ravens, just look at the fact that Im still an Os fan despite 15 years of sucking.

[FearedSanctity]

I jumped on the Bronco train during the 1997 season, which seems bandwagonish but I was like 9 and did live in Colorado at the time so suck it

[James Steele]

When the movie business went to Shrev after Katrina, I sat in my car and LISTENED to a 3-13 season on my Sirius Satellite Radio because of their "local" Cowboys coverage..

Don't ever act like I am a bandwagon fan..

I'll make a bet right now that the Saints will have more wins than the Cowboys this coming season..


I never said you were a bandwagon fan, but most of the Shreveport natives are. I'm sure the Katrina transplants are a part of that as some of them moved here also and you see occasional Saints covered cars or some drunk coonass in a bar acting like a damn fool.

I don't care who has more wins because as the NY Giants proved, you only have to be great 5-6 times to be considered the best.

[Team Sheep]

I started following the Jets when I first started watching NFL in 2005 as they enjoyed a 4-12 season :cool:

[James Steele]

For the record, I respect Cleveland Browns fans more than any other as they are truly dedicated to their team.

[James Steele]

Cleveland Browns Vs. Dallas Cowboys Results


Cleveland Browns Records by Opponent (http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/cleveland-browns/opponents)
Includes Regular Season and Postseason games.


<table class="stattbl" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="header"> <td>Date</td> <td>Result</td> <td align="right">Attendance</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>09/07/2008</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 28, Cleveland Browns 10 (http://www.footballdb.com/boxscore/2008090710)</td> <td align="right">73,012</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/19/2004</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 19, Cleveland Browns 12 (http://www.footballdb.com/boxscore/2004091911)</td> <td align="right">63,119</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/10/1994</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 19, Dallas Cowboys 14</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/01/1991</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 26, Cleveland Browns 14</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/04/1988</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 24, Dallas Cowboys 21</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/22/1985</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 20, Cleveland Browns 7</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>11/25/1982</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 31, Cleveland Browns 14</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/24/1979</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 26, Dallas Cowboys 7</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/07/1974</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 41, Cleveland Browns 17</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>12/12/1970</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 6, Cleveland Browns 2</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/28/1969</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 38, Dallas Cowboys 14 (Eastern Conference Championship)</td> <td align="right">69,321</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>11/02/1969</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 42, Dallas Cowboys 10</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/21/1968</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 31, Dallas Cowboys 20 (Eastern Conference Championship)</td> <td align="right">81,497</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/22/1968</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 28, Cleveland Browns 7</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/24/1967</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 52, Cleveland Browns 14 (Eastern Conference Championship)</td> <td align="right">70,786</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/17/1967</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 21, Cleveland Browns 14</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>11/24/1966</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 26, Cleveland Browns 14</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>10/23/1966</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 30, Dallas Cowboys 21</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>11/21/1965</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 24, Dallas Cowboys 17</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>10/17/1965</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 23, Dallas Cowboys 17</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>10/18/1964</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 20, Dallas Cowboys 16</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>10/04/1964</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 27, Dallas Cowboys 6</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>11/24/1963</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 27, Dallas Cowboys 17</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>09/22/1963</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 41, Dallas Cowboys 24</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/02/1962</td> <td>Dallas Cowboys 45, Cleveland Browns 21</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>10/07/1962</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 19, Dallas Cowboys 10</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>12/03/1961</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 38, Dallas Cowboys 17</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row1"> <td>10/01/1961</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 25, Dallas Cowboys 7</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> <tr class="row0"> <td>10/16/1960</td> <td>Cleveland Browns 48, Dallas Cowboys 7</td> <td align="right">--</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<center> Cleveland Browns lead series 17-12-0

Points Scored: Cleveland Browns 648, Dallas Cowboys 588

http://www.footballdb.com/teamvsteam.html?tm=8&opp=9

Actually, fuck Cleveland. Pity is for the weak.
</center>

[Reavant]

Everyone here is a bandwagon fan except for me and Hanso. That is a fact.

yu have to put me in there as I too am a staunch buffalo bills fan... I however dont speak of them as much due to the pain it brings me

[Kris P Lettus]

The Cleveland Browns are the Baltimore Ravens..

[FearedSanctity]

Got you covered, Steele...:cool:

Denver Broncos Vs. Cleveland Browns Results

09/20/2009 Denver Broncos 27, Cleveland Browns 6 73,931
11/06/2008 Denver Broncos 34, Cleveland Browns 30 73,141
10/22/2006 Denver Broncos 17, Cleveland Browns 7 73,024
12/14/2003 Denver Broncos 23, Cleveland Browns 20, OT 75,358
10/15/2000 Denver Broncos 44, Cleveland Browns 10 75,811
10/30/1994 Denver Broncos 26, Cleveland Browns 14 --
11/07/1993 Denver Broncos 29, Cleveland Browns 14 --
09/27/1992 Denver Broncos 12, Cleveland Browns 0 --
12/08/1991 Denver Broncos 17, Cleveland Browns 7 --
10/08/1990 Cleveland Browns 30, Denver Broncos 29 --
01/14/1990 Denver Broncos 37, Cleveland Browns 21 (AFC Championship Game) 76,046
10/01/1989 Cleveland Browns 16, Denver Broncos 13 --
11/13/1988 Denver Broncos 30, Cleveland Browns 7 --
01/17/1988 Denver Broncos 38, Cleveland Browns 33 (AFC Championship Game) 76,197
01/11/1987 Denver Broncos 23, Cleveland Browns 20, OT (AFC Championship Game) 79,973
09/16/1984 Denver Broncos 24, Cleveland Browns 14 --
12/04/1983 Denver Broncos 27, Cleveland Browns 6 --
11/08/1981 Denver Broncos 23, Cleveland Browns 20, OT --
10/05/1980 Denver Broncos 19, Cleveland Browns 16 --
11/12/1978 Denver Broncos 19, Cleveland Browns 7 --
09/26/1976 Denver Broncos 44, Cleveland Browns 13 --
10/19/1975 Denver Broncos 16, Cleveland Browns 15 --
10/27/1974 Cleveland Browns 23, Denver Broncos 21 --
10/29/1972 Cleveland Browns 27, Denver Broncos 20 --
10/24/1971 Denver Broncos 27, Cleveland Browns 0 --
12/20/1970 Cleveland Browns 27, Denver Broncos 13 --


Denver Broncos lead series 21-5-0

Points Scored: Denver Broncos 652, Cleveland Browns 403

[Kris P Lettus]

Everyone here is a bandwagon fan except for me and Hanso. That is a fact.

http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1050&highlight=saints

Yeah I def jumped on the bandwagon when the Aarron Brooks stepped in for Jeff Blake..

[Supreme Olajuwon]

yu have to put me in there as I too am a staunch buffalo bills fan... I however dont speak of them as much due to the pain it brings me

I thought you were a Bears fan

so confussssssssssssssssssssed

who am I thinking of thats a Bears fan

[Kris P Lettus]

He posts about both but I think he grew up and is a die hard Bills fan..

[Reavant]

I live in chicago so with every television/radio outlet 100% bears news, that is why I know so much but I am 100% a Bills fan as can be seen in my sig

[Reavant]

anyone admitting to being a bills fan regardless of any parameter automatically can not be labeled bandwagon sad to say

[Reavant]

I also support the bears and want them to do good so that all the people around me dont turn into the self/world hating lunatics that bears fans become when they suck

[Kris P Lettus]

It's ok cause yr team is AFC and now you live in an NFC town.. It be different if you had moved to Miami or Boston..

[Krimzon7]

I'm a bengals fan, I hate chad Johnson, Corey Dillion, David klingler, Stanley Wilson, and John fucking Taylor. This alone should tell you all the depths of my stripes. If not come at me, I'll blow your mind with some little known facts, some well known facts and....who the fuck would admit to being a natti fan???

[Krimzon7]

I also hate the saints....IT'S FUCKING WHO DEY goddamit

[Kris P Lettus]

I also hate the saints....IT'S FUCKING WHO DEY goddamit

:n:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/who-dey-vs-who-dat/

Who Dey

Although the exact origin of the phrase is disputed, it had been made popular by 1981 in Bengals fans’ cheers for their team during their run to Super Bowl XVI. Some fans would do the chant and other fans would reply, “Nobody!” The cheer again gained national recognition in their 1988 appearance in Super Bowl XXIII. Due to the success of the Bengals team in the 2005 season, the chant is again gaining popularity. Different theories of the origin of the chant exist.


Who Dat

The chant of “Who dat? Who dat say they gonna beat dem – - ” originated in minstral shows and vaudeville acts in the late 1800s and early 1900s, then was taken up by jazz and big band folks in the 1920s and 1930s, became a familiar joke among soldiers in World War II, was used in early TV skits in the 1950s, then was adapted by Southern University and the public schools in New Orleans in the 1960s and 1970s and finally was adopted by Saints fans and the Saints in the late 1970’s.

[Nark Order]

I'l always be a fan of San Francisco teams because going to SF for sporting events is like going to a fucking circus. It HAS to be one of the best sports cities just because everything and everybody is nuts.

I'm also a fan of Cleveland teams because I grew up on them. My stepmom is from Ohio and my step brother only watched Cleveland sports growing up pretty much. Been to my fair share of Cavs games whenever they come here. Never been to a Browns game. Been to one Indians game when they faced the Giants last year.

[RoXer]

The Arizona Cardinals will win the NFC West

[DrA]

The Buffalo Bills are my second favorite team I think, maybe even my first. They're definitely in my top five.

[Nark Order]

The Arizona Cardinals will win the NFC West

har har har

[Droford]

The Cleveland Browns are the Baltimore Ravens..

Ravens are 3-0 vs the Cowpokes..5-0 vs Houston. Only two teams that haven't beat the Ravens.