Premiership Talk

[packt up]

Liverpool :foc:

Yeah we're still gonna get 4th :shifty:

[Dazz]

Thank fu</>ck Leeds are down, they deserved everything they got, hell, even Wolves are ahead of them now.

Also, Liverpool :love: I was looking at the team thinking, with the exception of Kewell, that is the exact same side that won the League Cup Final last season, and we were amazing, stuttered for about 15 minutes in the Second Half, but that is the best I have seen us play this season. Its a shame it took Houllier 34 Games to work out what our best team was.

Yeah I rarely see Liverpool games on the T.V, and I couldn't figure out how Liverpool could be underperforming when they play games as good as that. I thought they were pretty good at Stamford Bridge, they were the better team, and deserved to win, and I thought they played well and were unlucky not to draw with Chelsea on the opening game of the season. I guess its just inconsistancy, plus you seem to play better against big clubs, like Chelsea and ManYoo, and for the first half against the Arse the other week. To be honest, I can't see what the fuss is with Houllier, you still have a great chance of being in the Champions League, and you have done no worse in the league then Newcastle, yet people aren't caliing for Robson's head.

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">I felt well bad for Alan Smith at the end crying, the Leeds fans were great, respect to them for that.

I don't see Leeds bouncing straight back and I doubt they'll enjoy div 1 at all. If you look at the bottom of div 1 right now, Wimbledon, Bradford, Derby, Watford were all premiership clubs that over stretched and suffered because of it when they got relegated. Ipswich, West Ham and Sunderland are others that suffered the financial impact of relegation and it looks like only 1 or possibly none out of the 3 of them could be going back up this season.

Look at a team like West Brom, they didn't overspend or take a gamble and they went down but they were financially secure and were able to bounce right back. I can see the same thing happening with Wolves. They're fine financially and so wont need to sell players and will be able to retain a decent squad. Leeds wont. :( The future looks bleak for them</font>

[The Mask]

that's cause newcastle have like no history of glory, and they'd be willing to take the whole uefa cup she-bang thing.

[Dazz]

But they have the players to perform better, they must still be like 'with the players we have we underperfomed'. Newcastle should have done better, so should Liverpool, with the players they had they both underperformed, unlike Villa who made the most of the players they had, and have done well, much credit to David O'Leary.

[Wengerland]

Leeds should never have sacked O'Leary.

[The Mask]

it's true, but then look at the leeds side, most of their first team look pretty good on paper.

[Wengerland]

True,most of it does.But key areas like central midfield and central defence do not look so great.:(

[Dazz]

At the time I thought it was the right move, as with the money he spent they underacheived. He thinks they didn't underacheive because they made the semi final of the Champions League once, despite coming like 6th in the league the season he got sacked. I thought that when Venables took over they would be competing for the title, but instead they sold Ferdinand and did rubbish.

Looking back, I agree, they should have kept O'Leary.

[The Mask]

didn't he buy like 8 strikers or some shit though?

[Wengerland]

I don't think they ever finished outside the top 5 under O'Leary,so to sack him was very petty.I guess they didn't know how things would turn out though to be fair.

He bought Viduka,Fowler,Bridges.That's all i know right now,so anyone feel free to add.

[Dazz]

Huckerby, wasn't Seth Johnson an attacker, but changed to a midfielder when at Leeds, and I'm sure they finished 6th in his final season.

Also, Ronaldinho is playing amazing, he missed an easy header earlier but other then that he has dominated the game, 1-1 Vs Deportivooooooooooooo, he just headed the equaliser, Sky Sports One, its worth watching. LOL the commentator just said "Manchester United must be kicking themselves, if they had Ronaldinho the title race probably wouldn't be over and they would probably be in the Champions League still".

[The Mask]

goddamn kenyon :rant:

[Wengerland]

Nah Johnson wa always a midfielder.

Damn it,they're only drawing with Espanyol.LETS GO BARCA!!!!!!!11

[Cactus Sid]

that's cause newcastle have like no history of glory, and they'd be willing to take the whole uefa cup she-bang thing.

Exactly, and its not just the history, its the last 5 years as well. We were amazing a few seasons ago, all the cups, the 2nd in the league etc... we should have been looking at winning the title, and thats not just as an optimistic Liverpool fan, thats realistic.

The whole problem with Houllier is simple. When we should have been trying to win the title, he bought some of the worst players the club has ever seen. Diouf, Diao, Cheryou, Traore, Biscan, and Diomede, cost us combined £30 million. Other players we've signed who've not played up to full potential, like Smicer and Heskey, thats another £15 Million. The signings of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou highlighted how inept Houllier was in the transfer market. Diouf cost us £10 million, we could have bought Anelka for that. Diao for £5 Million??? Cheyrou for £4???? Thats £9 million worth of sh</>ite. We failed to get into the Champions League last season, meaning we could only spend £8 million this season. Which was probably a blessing.

Ok, that was a disjointed rant, but my point is, Houllier has made some truly terrible signings, has showed a complete disregard for tactics this season, and it has taken him until the last 7 or 8 games of the season to find his best side, thats 30 games too late. We've lost only 1 more game than United this season, yet we're 15 points behind them. This is disgraceful. Ok, we're finishing the season well, the pressure is off him now, but the season has been shambolic, and for that he should go. Knocked out of the Carling Cup by Bolton, the F.A Cup by Portsmouth, both games we should have won. Going out of Europe after an inept first leg against Marseille, and never looking confident when we played at home. Why the hell should we be settling for 4th place, indeed, struggling to get 4th place, when we have a team like the one that carved apart Middlesbrough today.

I think he should go, but the board wont sack him, so basically, give him another season, if we get to the Champions League, give him £30 million to sign Cisse, Mexes and some decent young talent, preferably British (Michael Dawson, Michael Tonge for example) and go after the top 3 next season, its a sad day for football if the gulf between 3rd and 4th is truly as big as it seems.

[Wengerland]

Oh right,2-1 :cool:

[Ogen]

I can't express how I'll feel if we make the Champions Leauge. It would simply be the best thing ever I've always wanted to see Villa against the cream of Europe. Juan Pablo Angel for president

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">we've got the 4th best home form in the premiership behind the big 3 and Newcastle, as good as Liverpool.

What could have been if we werent so shitty away from home :'(</font>

[packt up]

I don't think they ever finished outside the top 5 under O'Leary,so to sack him was very petty.I guess they didn't know how things would turn out though to be fair.

He bought Viduka,Fowler,Bridges.That's all i know right now,so anyone feel free to add.

Robbie Keane??

And I don't think Seth Johnson was ever an attacker Dazz (I only say that cos he's never played there as far as I know and I always remember him as a DM in Champ Man :$)

Anyway yeah Newcastle have mad underperformed this season. Don't get me wrong I know we aren't anywhere near the top 3 but the fact of the matter is we are 6th, we have way fewer points than we did this time last season and we are like 30 points behind the leaders. We should be fourth (definitely no higher) but the fact of the matter is our team has underperformed and we haven't made enough strides in the transfer market.

Signing Lee Bowyer on a free and Michael Bridges on loan for a team that finished 3rd is criminal. We should have built on the fact that we were really popular and that everyone was appreciating our football and the fact that we were in the Champions League (that feels so wrong saying that now :()

This season should be a sign that we need a way deeper squad. The bench this weekend was an absolute joke. Harper fair enough...after that ?!!? Chopra Britain and Taylor are unproven youngsters and Bridges is a Leeds reject.

If we win the WAFER cup then the season will be a moderate success and I'll just be pleased that Shearer has won something with us but I feel like this season should generally be nothing to shout about - and the cup feels a long way off at the moment too.

[Rob]

Don't you find it funny that Stephen Caldwell tried probably harder than anyone aside from Alan Smith in the Leeds team and he is actually contracted to Newcastle and knows he'll be going back there next season?

[Rob]

Exactly, and its not just the history, its the last 5 years as well. We were amazing a few seasons ago, all the cups, the 2nd in the league etc... we should have been looking at winning the title, and thats not just as an optimistic Liverpool fan, thats realistic.

The whole problem with Houllier is simple. When we should have been trying to win the title, he bought some of the worst players the club has ever seen. Diouf, Diao, Cheryou, Traore, Biscan, and Diomede, cost us combined £30 million. Other players we've signed who've not played up to full potential, like Smicer and Heskey, thats another £15 Million. The signings of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou highlighted how inept Houllier was in the transfer market. Diouf cost us £10 million, we could have bought Anelka for that. Diao for £5 Million??? Cheyrou for £4???? Thats £9 million worth of sh</>ite. We failed to get into the Champions League last season, meaning we could only spend £8 million this season. Which was probably a blessing.

Ok, that was a disjointed rant, but my point is, Houllier has made some truly terrible signings, has showed a complete disregard for tactics this season, and it has taken him until the last 7 or 8 games of the season to find his best side, thats 30 games too late. We've lost only 1 more game than United this season, yet we're 15 points behind them. This is disgraceful. Ok, we're finishing the season well, the pressure is off him now, but the season has been shambolic, and for that he should go. Knocked out of the Carling Cup by Bolton, the F.A Cup by Portsmouth, both games we should have won. Going out of Europe after an inept first leg against Marseille, and never looking confident when we played at home. Why the hell should we be settling for 4th place, indeed, struggling to get 4th place, when we have a team like the one that carved apart Middlesbrough today.

I think he should go, but the board wont sack him, so basically, give him another season, if we get to the Champions League, give him £30 million to sign Cisse, Mexes and some decent young talent, preferably British (Michael Dawson, Michael Tonge for example) and go after the top 3 next season, its a sad day for football if the gulf between 3rd and 4th is truly as big as it seems.

I was quite impressed with that little rant though. :y:

Who do you want as manager next season then (because surely the Frog is gone)?

[packt up]

Don't you find it funny that Stephen Caldwell tried probably harder than anyone aside from Alan Smith in the Leeds team and he is actually contracted to Newcastle and knows he'll be going back there next season?

I didn't see the game to be honest :$ Steve Caldwell is an alright player :y: I would hope he wouldn't be our first choice centre back anytime soon but he's an ok squad player. I think he'l most likely be leaving soon though I think his contract is up at the end of this season.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I'd be more worried about hanging on to Colin Cameron.

You are one humourous japester Rob Harvey :lol::lol::lol:

Thank **** Leeds are down, they deserved everything they got, hell, even Wolves are ahead of them now.

Oi :mad:

What could have been if we werent so shitty away from home :'(

:'(

[The Comet Kid]

Yeah,all they should do is maybe put a transfer embargo thing over them until they are satisfied.Maybe let them buy a few guys who are free.

I am quite biased though cause of what happened here,but any points docked should be a maximum of 3,imo.
The reason for the penalty is so that clubs cant benefit from having wreckless boards.

Every team could take a loan from a bank and buy great players and then go bankrupt cancel their debts and tehn take a great squad to promotion or Europe. But then thats just punishing clubs who manage their club properly and dont do what Leeds do and spend way beyond their means.

Why would clubs manage themselves properly if the easiest way to get ahead is to spend like crazy?

the reason for the penalty is to avoid what happened at Leicster. The board didnt run things properly and they nearly went out of business. But they cleared their debts and went straight up because they had a team they shouldnt have been able to afford.

Now if clubs are mismanaged they arent going to benefit from it and they have an incentive not to mess up.

Though I hate leeds and hope they go bankrupt in the summer because it would be hilarious to see them go straight down to division 2 :D

[Cactus Sid]

I was quite impressed with that little rant though. :y:

Who do you want as manager next season then (because surely the Frog is gone)?

Its hard to say, obviously everyone is going to say Martin O'Neill, and he would definetly be top of the list, but aside from him, maybe Hitzfeld from Bayern seeing as he's stepping down, Ranieri would also be up the top of the list, if he is leaving, what better than a thick-skinned manager, who doesn't make excuses constantly and is tactically sound.

For an outsider, might be a shock, but Kevin Keegan, he's Liverpool through and through, why not give him some money and a chance.

[The Mask]

i wish our board would be a bit more reckless in signing players like ronaldinho, rather than wasting millions on shite like djemba

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ronaldinho preferred Barcelona, United matched the bid.

Djemba-Djemba is 22, for ****s sake, give the fellow a chance. He got 22 yellow cards in France last season, you have to respect that.

[The Mask]

i'm pretty sure we didn't match the bid. he seemed pretty set on united, he even said he wanted to be the first brazilian in a red shirt after he joined barca.

djemba is... meh, i think we have better ways to spend our money really, than going for potential all the time, cause it rarely ever works out for us.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ronaldinho also said he was "dreaming of white" when asked if Real Madrid wanted him. He's a bit of a tart, really. If he was that desperate to go to United, he'd have rejected Barcelona and told PSG he wanted to go to Manchester, thus making any auction pointless.

Djemba-Djemba looks a good player. He is an excellent passer, he just needs a run in the side like anyone else.

[The Mask]

what i've seen of him, he looks pretty shaky at the moment. at 22, he has time on his side i guess. i think kleberson has got a worse rep though, i've been impressed with what i've seen of him so far.

[Wengerland]

The reason for the penalty is so that clubs cant benefit from having wreckless boards.

Every team could take a loan from a bank and buy great players and then go bankrupt cancel their debts and tehn take a great squad to promotion or Europe. But then thats just punishing clubs who manage their club properly and dont do what Leeds do and spend way beyond their means.

Why would clubs manage themselves properly if the easiest way to get ahead is to spend like crazy?

the reason for the penalty is to avoid what happened at Leicster. The board didnt run things properly and they nearly went out of business. But they cleared their debts and went straight up because they had a team they shouldnt have been able to afford.

Now if clubs are mismanaged they arent going to benefit from it and they have an incentive not to mess up.

Though I hate leeds and hope they go bankrupt in the summer because it would be hilarious to see them go straight down to division 2 :D

Its not as if we didn't try to sell players though,hell even the fans favourite wa sold against everyones wishes(Matt Piper). Fact was that no-one else wanted anyone other than Izzet i guess but no bid was spoken of.

[Dazz]

Ronaldinho preferred Barcelona, United matched the bid.

Finally, someone else that knows what happened, I said this in the post you made in the Casual Forum Mask, but you ignored it :'(.

The only time Ronaldinho expressed interest in Manchester United was AFTER the Madrid transfer collapsed and BEFORE Barcelona made a bid, I.E when he had no other options.

[Heyman]

Premiership is gay.

[Dazz]

Premiership is gay.

Not as gay as your Mark Henry and Prince Albert fantasies.

[The Mask]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/3057925.stm

Man Utd looked to be in pole position to sign the PSG forward, but Graille says the Spanish giants' offer is the superior one.

Asked whether the offer from Old Trafford was insufficient compared to the sum which Barca are prepared to pay, Graille said: "Yes, completely. However nothing has been done yet."

[The Mask]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2935890.stm

:'(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2953934.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/3056759.stm

[The Mask]

His brief statement of "tengo la mente en blanco," can be translated either as "I have an open mind" or also "I am thinking about white".

[Dazz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2935890.stm

:'(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2953934.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/3056759.stm

None of these links are convincing, as you see in the first two, there are no other clubs linked to Ronaldinho at the time, hence why he was keen on Manchester United.

In the last link, it says it was AFTER Real Madrid had withdrawn their bid, and Barca and Chelsea had no confirmed interest in him.

The link in your other post doesn't quote Ronaldinho saying that he would prefer to go to United when Barca were also bidding, it just says you wouldn't cough up the goolash. NEVER in it does it claim Ronaldinho would have preffered to go to you.

[The Mask]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/3056759.stm

Real Madrid were linked with the player but have decided not to make a bid, <i>while Barcelona and Chelsea are the other clubs believed to be chasing him. </i>

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Bottom line is, Ronaldinho is a tart, and he touted himself about to alot of clubs. If he really wanted to go to United, he would have. Players have the upper hand. Look at Beckham: he turned down the Barca offer, so United had no option but to take Real Madrid's, the club he actually wanted to go to.

Kleberson has always been pretty highly rated. He played in the World Cup winning squad, so he's got a bigger rep than Djemba-Djemba. I think he is an excellent player, but his form has been poor for club and country, so he needs to sort himself out overall.

Djemba-Djemba has impressed, though. The thing is, he only ever starts when Fergie is putting out a terrible side, so he ends up playing alongside Forlan, Bellion and Phil Neville, and the like, then they lose and he looks stupid.

[toxic rooster]

I have to say, this season has somewhat tapered off towards the end.

- Arsenal won the title in April
- With 2 weeks to go, Leeds, Wolves and Leicester
- Chelsea are going to take second

The only thing that's still alive really is the battle for 4th place.

For example, just watching Boro yesterday, you could tell they really didn't have anything to play for against Liverpool. Full credit to Pool tho :o

[Wengerland]

YES,Les Ferdinand could stay at Leicester.:love:

I knew he might delay retiring but i thought he'd go back to the premiership or something.:D

[Cactus Sid]

You know, its kind of sad how the United fans are STILL harping on about Ronaldinho

[Wengerland]

Personally i think they have every right too,considering how well he's done at Barcelona and how poor United have been this season(compared to others).

I'm sure they wouldn't go on about him should their season been better,at least in the league and Europe.

[The Mask]

why? he's a world class player and any team that close to getting him would be gutted.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Ronaldinho on his own wouldn't have stopped Arsenal being unbeaten in 35

[The Mask]

i know, but the run in would've been far more interesting.

Besides, who would you rather watch playing for you, ronaldinho or darren fletcher? :|

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Nah, seriously, Ronaldinho or no, United's season fell apart pretty much right when Ferdinand got suspended.

Fletcher wouldn't have had more than 10 games this season if Solskjaer hadn't been crocked...I dunno, you could argue they'd have been just as effective if Solskjaer had stayed fit, since he was really fitting into the wide right role.

Anyway, cry about it

[The Mask]

solskjaer hasn't been that great on the right. He has no real qualities that make him stick out as a winger.

I don't think we'd have won this season, ronaldinho or not, but we'd have had a lot less 1-0 defeats.

[Wengerland]

I think Ronaldinho is better as a support striker anyway,so even they got him they should have still been playing Fletcher or signing Cristiano Ronaldo,or at least they should imo.

[The Mask]

imagine what our midfield could've been though if we sold giggs instead of beckham

ronaldo keane ronaldinho beckham

:'(

[Mr. Monday Morning]

solskjaer hasn't been that great on the right. He has no real qualities that make him stick out as a winger.

I don't think we'd have won this season, ronaldinho or not, but we'd have had a lot less 1-0 defeats.

JOBBED AT THE MOLINEUX
YOU WENT AND JOBBED AT THE MOLINEUX

[The Mask]

17 Man City 36 -2 38
---------------------
18 Wolves 36 -37 32

[Mr. Monday Morning]

LOL and you lost to us both

[The Mask]

yeah but i pissed all over some city posters in revenge, so i'm going to have to like turd on your pillow now or something :'(

[Mr. Monday Morning]

What are you going to do to Pricey

[The Mask]

hug him slightly too tight.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I find this to be disproportionately revengeful

[CSL]

LOL and you lost to us both

<font color=white>Absoloutly off subject here but I only live like a 10 minute walk from the Molineux

And Arsenal wouldn't have gone unbeaten all season if the Ruud Van Man hadn't slammed a penalty against the underside of the bar in September</font>

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Well no, obviously :wtf:

But he did

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">or if Pires hadn't DIVED in september :@ :'(</font>

[The Mask]

and they wouldn't if pires wasn't a diving cun</>t either. then they'd have lost to pompey too and i'd have less reason to hug him slightly too tight.

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">*high five*</font>

[The Mask]

whyat RBF said :'(

[El Capitano Gatisto]

i know, but the run in would've been far more interesting.

Besides, who would you rather watch playing for you, ronaldinho or darren fletcher? :|

Give your players SOME credit. Fletcher is 20 and playing in his first full season as a first team player. He is not a wide right player, but he looks a potentially world class central midfielder. That combination of Fletcher and Ronaldo down the right could be dominating Europe for the next 10 years, if they fufill their potential.

Ronaldinho could very well have been exactly like Veron. I watched Veron for years in Serie A, and I genuinely consider him as good a player as Zinedine Zidane, but it didn't work out for him in the Premiership. Ronaldinho wears perfume, any player who does that might find it difficult playing in England.

[Rob]

Ronaldinho preferred Barcelona, United matched the bid.

Djemba-Djemba is 22, for ****s sake, give the fellow a chance. He got 22 yellow cards in France last season, you have to respect that.

Actually Peter Kenyon agreed a £26 million deal for him and then the Man United board told him his limit for the transfer was £22 million and to go back and get the deal done at that price. He refused and the deal was pulled. I'm not saying he would have chose United over Barca but that is what happened.

I am trying to like Djemba but I don't see him cutting the mustard at Old Trafford. Hope I'm wrong though.

[Rob]

Nah, seriously, Ronaldinho or no, United's season fell apart pretty much right when Ferdinand got suspended.

Fletcher wouldn't have had more than 10 games this season if Solskjaer hadn't been crocked...I dunno, you could argue they'd have been just as effective if Solskjaer had stayed fit, since he was really fitting into the wide right role.

Anyway, cry about it

In every game he played on the right this season, Solskjaer has shown none of the form that kept Beckham out of the team last year. Fletcher has looked impressive at times but definately needs a good run in the team. I swear him and McFadden are the only thing keeping Scotland from sitting alongside the San Marino's of the world right now (actually Canero looked good last week so him too).

[Wengerland]

Canero :love:

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Actually Peter Kenyon agreed a £26 million deal for him and then the Man United board told him his limit for the transfer was £22 million and to go back and get the deal done at that price. He refused and the deal was pulled. I'm not saying he would have chose United over Barca but that is what happened.

I am trying to like Djemba but I don't see him cutting the mustard at Old Trafford. Hope I'm wrong though.

Come on now, he is 22 and has spent much of the season injured, or playing for Cameroon in the African Nations.

I like him, he has alot of talent. He is an excellent passer, and a brute.

You can't really blame Solskjaer for a lack of form, it's more a lack of match fitness. He had a pretty serious knee injury. There was talk of him not actually playing this season at all, to allow it to fully recover.

[Simon]

Djemba-Djemba looked like he could be quality before he got injured, I remember in the Charity Shield he was just picking up the ball and running straight at the opposition...not in a technical, Giggs-style running at your man way, I mean literallly running straight at them, smacking into them and running on with the ball because he's built like a brick shithouse.

[Dazz]

JOBBED AT THE MOLINEUX
YOU WENT AND JOBBED AT THE MOLINEUX

Anyone else watch Soccer Saturday?

Rodney Marsh and (I THINK) Frank Mcanalli (sp?) were having an arguement about who is bigger out of Everton and Man City, and Rodney Marsh was sticking up for City, saying Everton aren't, and he said 'Lets see what happens today when Wolves Play Everton, any half decent team will beat Wolves at the Molineux' and Mcanalli didn't even mention the fact Man United lost there, what an idiot.

[Cactus Sid]

What I find funny about the whole season is that apart from Leeds, Tottenham have lost more games than anyone (19 to Leeds' 20)

[Dazz]

Yeah, by tradition we beat them twice.

They would be equal is Jens Lehmenn learned how to control his temper.

[Wengerland]

We have the most draws out of everyone.:-\

[The Mask]

Give your players SOME credit. Fletcher is 20 and playing in his first full season as a first team player. He is not a wide right player, but he looks a potentially world class central midfielder. That combination of Fletcher and Ronaldo down the right could be dominating Europe for the next 10 years, if they fufill their potential.

Ronaldinho could very well have been exactly like Veron. I watched Veron for years in Serie A, and I genuinely consider him as good a player as Zinedine Zidane, but it didn't work out for him in the Premiership. Ronaldinho wears perfume, any player who does that might find it difficult playing in England.

I try, but apart from a few players, there's a high level of inconsistancy in the team these days, and our midfield isn't nearly creative enough compared to the teams of old. We don't have enough depth apart from defensive midfielders, where we have far too many. I don't doubt we have a lot of potential in our current backup players, but too many of our recent signings have fallen short of what I think we're capable of. I have a bad feeling too many of our "rough diamonds" or whatever are going to end up like forlan.

For our first team, it's pretty ideal on paper, but throw in a few injuries here and then, and our backup players aren't up to the standard that I think we need. I'm not saying they're all shite, just that we should have better.

[Rob]

Anyone else watch Soccer Saturday?

Rodney Marsh and (I THINK) Frank Mcanalli (sp?) were having an arguement about who is bigger out of Everton and Man City, and Rodney Marsh was sticking up for City, saying Everton aren't, and he said 'Lets see what happens today when Wolves Play Everton, any half decent team will beat Wolves at the Molineux' and Mcanalli didn't even mention the fact Man United lost there, what an idiot.

Frank McLintock?

Anyways, Marsh is a proven moron.

[Wengerland]

could be McLintock or Alan McInally by the looks of it.

[Dazz]

Yeah I thought it might me McClintock, but I went to McInally coz it popped into my head first.

[toxic rooster]

Yeah, by tradition we beat them twice.

They would be equal is Jens Lehmenn learned how to control his temper.
Yeah, but when he lets in 24 goals in 35 games, the response is generally along the lines of "who gives a fu</>ck"

[toxic rooster]

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but:

If Wenger had sold Ljungberg in the summer
If Sol Campbell had missed a drug test and been suspended for 8 months
If Wenger was aware of this but still signed a striker instead of a defender
If Edu/Gilberto had been crocked and would have done well to have a year off and had to come back playing out of form
If Arsene Wenger had a dispute with 2 men involving the frozen semen of a horse

We'd probably be worse off than ManYoo are right now.

[Cactus Sid]

Na

You've still got Henry

[Cactus Sid]

Also looking at each individual bit.

Ljungberg has had a minimal impact on Arsenal's season, he has been highly disappointing.

If Campbell had been out, I'm sure the defence would cope somehow, Cygan/Keown may not be the best, but they do a job.

If Wenger had bought a striker instead of a defender, it would enforce Arsenal as a more attacking side, like Real Madrid, attack is the best form of defence.

Edu has popped up with some key goals, yes, but Gilberto has been pretty crap this season, Vieira can cope with the extra load, and I'm sure someone else could pick up the reins.

The whole Magnier/McManus thing is sh</>ite, it shouldn't effect what happened on the pitch.

Even if those things did happen to Arsenal, they wouldn't have lost 10 games this season, and they'd still be champions.

[toxic rooster]

Well it's up for debate.

Maybe substitute "Vieira" where I wrote "Ljungberg". Got carried away with the right wing thing.

Never, NEVER put the words "Cygan" and "cope" in the same sentence :mad:

Or maybe a side with 1 too many strikers and not enough defenders :o

Whatever. :roll:.

Shouldn't. Does. Did.

Again, it's up for debate

[CSL]

<font color=white>Wow. An Arsenal fan who's got some worthy views and respectful comments. Stone the crows. The again I don't know many...</font>

[Wengerland]

Liverpool linked with Smith now,and Kezman has said he'd rather move to Anfield apparantely.

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">ECG, which team do you support? </font>

[Dazz]

1-0 Yakubu, Lehmenn and Campbell should have done better.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">ECG, which team do you support? </font>

I don't really give a shit about any club teams. English nor Scottish teams mean nothing to me, and the game here is a really, really bad joke.

I support the Irish team and the players, but mostly I just love football.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

If Wenger had bought a striker instead of a defender, it would enforce Arsenal as a more attacking side, like Real Madrid, attack is the best form of defence.


I think Real Madrid have well and truly proved that wrong, by the way.

[Dazz]

I don't really give a shit about any club teams. English nor Scottish teams mean nothing to me, and the game here is a really, really bad joke.

I support the Irish team and the players, but mostly I just love football.

Did you ever support anyone?

I only ask because I always watch football on TV, but I only REALLY get into it when its Chelsea, and I love going to their games, I couldn't imagine watching football without supporting a team. :'(

[toxic rooster]

1-0 Yakubu, Lehmenn and Campbell should have done better.

Well at least we've had a shot on goal :mad:

Stupid Fox Sports, showing some tennis thing and making me go on the net to watch the game :mad:

[Rob]

I don't really give a shit about any club teams. English nor Scottish teams mean nothing to me, and the game here is a really, really bad joke.

I support the Irish team and the players, but mostly I just love football.

I think we should start a poll and pick who ECG should support. :y:

[Danny Electric]

Come on Pompy

[Cactus Sid]

I think Real Madrid have well and truly proved that wrong, by the way.

On the flip-side Arsenal have proved it right. Arsenal are by no means a good defensive team, they happen to have 2 good central defenders and an average goalkepper. Lauren and Cole go forward constantly, and are both not exactly fantastic at the back.

[toxic rooster]

But would you rather have Seaman or Lehmann as your stopper? :o

[toxic rooster]

Pompey 1-1 Arsenal

Reyes <font size=20>FINALLY</font> gets a Premiership goal

[Dazz]

I think we should start a poll and pick who ECG should support. :y:

I think that this is a good idea.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Did you ever support anyone?

I only ask because I always watch football on TV, but I only REALLY get into it when its Chelsea, and I love going to their games, I couldn't imagine watching football without supporting a team. :'(

I supported Man U when I was a little kid, because everyone else here does and people from my family do, but I realised as I got older I liked seeing them lose more often than winning. Now I just don't really care.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

On the flip-side Arsenal have proved it right. Arsenal are by no means a good defensive team, they happen to have 2 good central defenders and an average goalkepper. Lauren and Cole go forward constantly, and are both not exactly fantastic at the back.

It is still an excellent defense. You'd think the theory would be better proven by a team who have 4 or 5 players who have been argued to be the best players in the world at different times (though Raul is the best and most underrated, in my opinion, and Beckham never really came close to justifying that).

Arsenal have a strong defense, and also a solid defensive midfield. Madrid have neither. Arsenal's side is built on a tough core with flair around it.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I think we should start a poll and pick who ECG should support. :y:

You could do it, and taunt me when they lose or whateverm but I'd find it really hard to care about a side I have no connection to.

[Dazz]

I supported Man U when I was a little kid, because everyone else here does and people from my family do, but I realised as I got older I liked seeing them lose more often than winning. Now I just don't really care.

:cool: I prefer to see United lose then win too. Its the same where I live, all my mates used to support Manchester United, I can name just one person who is definitley a real Man United fan, the rest are glory hunters.

Arsenal have a strong defense, and also a solid defensive midfield.

Defence* We don't live across the pond.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I get accused by a couple of Man U supporting mates of being an Arsenal supporter, because I think they're a great team, and Henry the best player in the world. As a football fan though, it's hard not to like them.

[Dazz]

You could do it, and taunt me when they lose or whateverm but I'd find it really hard to care about a side I have no connection to.

Well then it must be a team doing fairly well so you can be pleased when they win, they should have some Irish connections, and it can't really be Manchester United anymore.

I would choose Aston Villa, they might be in the Champions League, they should be in Europe next season, they have good players like Lloyd Samuel, Hitzspeilger and Angel. O'Leary has done a great job, and he is Irish (although ROI I think).

I wonder what team Rob Harvey had in mind.

[Dazz]

I get accused by a couple of Man U supporting mates of being an Arsenal supporter, because I think they're a great team, and Henry the best player in the world. As a football fan though, it's hard not to like them.

Yeah I would agree with that, I almost want them to finish unbeaten, and being a Chelsea fan we're supposed to hate them. But watching their football, its just great, I always said that Manchester United partially won the league through dodgy refereeing decisions, Arsenal have always won the league on merit. Henry is head and shoulders above any other player in England, and I would rate him on par with Ronaldinho, the only reason I'd give Henry the edge is because I watch more English football.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I would choose Aston Villa, they might be in the Champions League, they should be in Europe next season, they have good players like Lloyd Samuel, Hitzspeilger and Angel. O'Leary has done a great job, and he is Irish (although ROI I think).

I wonder what team Rob Harvey had in mind.

I remember when Leeds had O'Leary and all the Irish players, I hated them then, and I hate them now. Glad to see them go down. It was tough to hate them for a while, though, because they had Robbie Keane and he is a hero.

Aston Villa are a good club, but I just can't do it.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Also, Ronaldinho wears perfume. As good as he is, Henry gets more goals, and gets his share of assists. He is unbelievable.

[Dazz]

Also, Ronaldinho wears perfume. As good as he is, Henry gets more goals, and gets his share of assists. He is unbelievable.

Yes but Ronaldinho creates alot for Barca, the guy runs the show alot of the time, and is a free kick genius. He does very impressive skills too, if Mask is on your MSN, ask him to send you the stuff Ronaldinho does. The two of them are different players, and throughout the season Henry has probably been better, but recently, Ronaldinho has been the man. Watch the pass he made to Xavi (I think) against Real Madrid to make it 2-1, beautiful.

[The Mackem]

Norwich went up as Champions last night, despite us beating them. We're guaranteed a play off place :cool:

[toxic rooster]

The winner of Div 1 usually manages to stay up at least once

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Norwich won't, since they suck. Pompey's team that won promotion last year was miles better than the current Norwich team, and that was before they strengthened. It'll take a minor miracle for Norwich to stay up.

[Wengerland]

Yes but Ronaldinho creates alot for Barca, the guy runs the show alot of the time, and is a free kick genius. He does very impressive skills too, if Mask is on your MSN, ask him to send you the stuff Ronaldinho does. The two of them are different players, and throughout the season Henry has probably been better, but recently, Ronaldinho has been the man. Watch the pass he made to Xavi (I think) against Real Madrid to make it 2-1, beautiful.

Yeah Xavi is right,also Mask just goes mad at me on MSN when i mention Ronaldinho.:'(

I agree with MMM though,Norwich have improved a bit since last season,mainly through Huckerby,but i still think the three that went up last year could have them,whichever squad they had.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Yes but Ronaldinho creates alot for Barca, the guy runs the show alot of the time, and is a free kick genius. He does very impressive skills too, if Mask is on your MSN, ask him to send you the stuff Ronaldinho does. The two of them are different players, and throughout the season Henry has probably been better, but recently, Ronaldinho has been the man. Watch the pass he made to Xavi (I think) against Real Madrid to make it 2-1, beautiful.

I've seen plenty of Ronaldinho, I just think Henry is the best player in the world at the moment. Ronaldinho's tricks and flicks are nice, but Henry's pace makes him simply unstoppable when the mood takes him, as it does more often than not.

[Rob]

Well then it must be a team doing fairly well so you can be pleased when they win, they should have some Irish connections, and it can't really be Manchester United anymore.

I would choose Aston Villa, they might be in the Champions League, they should be in Europe next season, they have good players like Lloyd Samuel, Hitzspeilger and Angel. O'Leary has done a great job, and he is Irish (although ROI I think).

I wonder what team Rob Harvey had in mind.

Q.P.R.

They were the first team that popped into my head when I wrote the idea.

[Rob]

I've seen plenty of Ronaldinho, I just think Henry is the best player in the world at the moment. Ronaldinho's tricks and flicks are nice, but Henry's pace makes him simply unstoppable when the mood takes him, as it does more often than not.

Yeah I think Henry is the best player in the world right now too.

[Wengerland]

Ronaldinho is probably my favourite player but Henry is probably the best imo

[Rob Ban Fan]

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/695342

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">What a night. Party atmopshere, two teams with nothing really left to play for (apart from Arsenal's unbeaten streak) spent most of the first half singing songs about Lehmann and David Seaman and then spent the second half singing about Henry.

He went to take a corner down at the home end where all the disabled supporters sit and he went and high fived a disabled Pompey fan.

Class act.</font>

[toxic rooster]

WERE THE GOONERS SINGING TOO :mad:

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">we sang "North Stand, give us a song" and then "Arsenal, give us a song" and they sang something then but I couldn't make out what it was. They looked like they were trying sometimes, they got a round of applaus when they did :p

It was funny, you lot had just been crowned champions and we were the ones singing the songs about being champions.

Making the most of our last night of being Nationwide Division 1 Champions :'( *sniff*

Congrats Norwich :'(</font>

[toxic rooster]

I tell you something, if I was over there....:mad:

GOONER HEADS WILL ROLL

[toxic rooster]

I tell you something, if I was over there....:mad:

GOONER HEADS WILL ROLL
Not trying to be a team killer or anything, but you know, we should be singing.

If I have anything to do with it, one day we will

[toxic rooster]

Hey does anyone actually know an Arsenal specific song or anything?

The one I hear the most when we do sing is that "And it's Ar-se-nal. Arsenal FC. We're by far the greatest team" etc, but several sets of fans sing that so I can't claim it

[Paranoid Rattlesnake]

Hmmm should I tell people that Jaap Stam has signed for AC milan or not

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That one has been on the cards for a while.

[Wengerland]

Hey does anyone actually know an Arsenal specific song or anything?

The one I hear the most when we do sing is that "And it's Ar-se-nal. Arsenal FC. We're by far the greatest team" etc, but several sets of fans sing that so I can't claim it

They have some,but i can't make out the words,mainly to one about Henry.

Only one i know is Vieira,ohhhhhhh,
Vieira ohhhhhhhhh,
He came from Senegal to play for Arsenal...

[Disturbed316]

Ok let me just ask something, because I've never really known the answer to this.

Say Beckham does indeed move to Chelsea, will Madrid still have to pay United the remaining money they owe to them?

[Wengerland]

I would guess so,something about Liverpool's payment to Middlesbrough over Ziege's move has just been sorted out and he's been playing at Spurs for at least 2 seasons.

Unless that was something different,i dunno.:-\

[Disturbed316]

Yeah, I've never really undrstood it, even after my many years of doing those kinds of deals on Champ :-\

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I would guess so,something about Liverpool's payment to Middlesbrough over Ziege's move has just been sorted out and he's been playing at Spurs for at least 2 seasons.

Unless that was something different,i dunno.:-\

I think Middlesbrough took some kind of legal action against Liverpool over the Ziege move, because it constituted an illegal approach for the player. Might be some kind of compensation for that.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ok let me just ask something, because I've never really known the answer to this.

Say Beckham does indeed move to Chelsea, will Madrid still have to pay United the remaining money they owe to them?

Yes.

[Rob Ban Fan]

Hey does anyone actually know an Arsenal specific song or anything?

The one I hear the most when we do sing is that "And it's Ar-se-nal. Arsenal FC. We're by far the greatest team" etc, but several sets of fans sing that so I can't claim it

www.footballchants.org

[toxic rooster]

:o

[toxic rooster]

:o

Wow, Zidane linked with Arsenal. :|.

[Rob]

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/695342

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">What a night. Party atmopshere, two teams with nothing really left to play for (apart from Arsenal's unbeaten streak) spent most of the first half singing songs about Lehmann and David Seaman and then spent the second half singing about Henry.

He went to take a corner down at the home end where all the disabled supporters sit and he went and high fived a disabled Pompey fan.

Class act.</font>

It's things like that which make me hate him. Well the problem is I don't him hate because he is way too good of a player to hate and he is a class act but damn it, he plays for Arsenal and it's getting real hard to actually like an Arsenal player. :mad: Stupid freaking Henry :rant:

[toxic rooster]

Well don't you deserve to fall off a cliff then :mad:

[packt up]

Henry :D what a nice fella.

lol@Rob you can tell us you like him...we won't tell a soul ({)

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Like Henri Camara instead.

That way you can still say you like Henri/Henry (in conversation) and people will be all impressed that you're not a petty Man U fan who can't bring himself to like any Arsenal players (:D) but really you'll be professing love for Camara :love:

...oh shut up :rant:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Just read a report that Martin O'Neill wants to sign Rivaldo as a replacement for Larsson.

:wtf: Dunno about that, Larsson is an out and out striker, Rivaldo ain't. He'd sure as hell tear the Scottish Premiership apart though.

[The Mask]

i feel sorry for bolton if that does go through. I know he isn't going to get champions league football in a while there but they have enough skillful players and they're probably looking good for the future if fat sam doesn't leave or anything.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

He probably just wants him for chippy duty :'(

[The Mask]

for when jay jay leaves :'(

[Dazz]

Yep, thats right.

I doubt he will go, they wont pay him enough.

Remember the time he almost joined Spurs, and then went to AC Milan? Well, I bet some big(ish) club who thinks they can control him signs him instead.

[Wengerland]

Yeah,Fat Sam has about admitted defeat.

[Ogen]

Rivaldo in Scotland will be hilarious he'll rip it apart till winter when he'll fúck off.

[Cactus Sid]

Wow, the games been on for 5 minutes, and you wouldn't know Chelsea are playing with Gray and Tyler going on and on and on about United. Haven't Chelsea just been knocked out of the Champions League? Isn't the manager's job on a knifes edge? Haven't they had a good season? No, lets talk about Man U, over and over.

[Cactus Sid]

UP THE SKI :D

[Rob Ban Fan]

Wow, the games been on for 5 minutes, and you wouldn't know Chelsea are playing with Gray and Tyler going on and on and on about United. Haven't Chelsea just been knocked out of the Champions League? Isn't the manager's job on a knifes edge? Haven't they had a good season? No, lets talk about Man U, over and over.

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">Im not watching but it would probably do my head in even more if they went on about Ranieri's job :o</font>

[Cactus Sid]

Oh well, doesn't matter :D

Don't think Huth should have been sent off (although I'm sure some will disagree) but hey, well played Chelsea, they were the better side over the 90 minutes, and they fully deserve second.

[Wengerland]

Yeah that was a good game,i agree about Huth's sending off being a wrong decision as he didn't seem to touch anything.

[packt up]

Yeah need a miracle for fourth now :(. And seriously apart from his goal Owen's finshing looks decidly poor :S - worrying for England.

[Cactus Sid]

Liverpool were fairly immense for 90 minutes

Shame we couldn't have played like this all season :(

[Wengerland]

Liverpool were amazing.If they can beat Newcastle and then go on to play like they did today for the following campaign then they should do much better,should Houllier be spared from the sack.

[Wengerland]

Please don't ease up Chelsea,cause after today if Chelsea beat Leeds then we won't finish bottom.

[Dazz]

I went round the Duck's house to watch the game, before the game, I said to him that Huth will either give away a penalty or get sent off. I said after about ten minutes that Gronkjaer would score, and that Nistelrooy would score from within the six yard box. But then I also said United would score just before half time (Thanks Carlo for proving me wrong) and that United would win 2-1. I got quite abit right.

Huth should have been sent off, the fact he didn't touch the player is irrelevant, it was a stupid challenge and it was dangerous.

I wonder what Rob Harvey's veiws on Paul Scholes dive are.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

And Wolves are going to win tomorrow, right Dazz? :yes:

[Wengerland]

I bet RBF must be going mad secretely,i mean to lose both games to us isn't that great.:$!

[Dazz]

And Wolves are going to win tomorrow, right Dazz? :yes:

Relegated teams do seem to do better...and I have been impressed with Wolves lately, if Newcastle play like they did in midweek, then I agree with you, unfortunatly, I think that Shearer and Ameobli will annhilate you, but they do have their best centre back out, so I dunno, depends if Cort and Henri can produce the goods.

I'd still go for the geordie's to stroll it. :wavesad:

[Cactus Sid]

Come on Wolves :D

[toxic rooster]

Fell asleep during ManYoo v Liverpool's second half.

Just thought I'd tell you :o

[Wengerland]

That was 2 weeks ago lad.:o

[packt up]

Paul Scholes was a lucky boy :yes:

[Heyman]

Premiership is gay.

[toxic rooster]

Yeah, I sorta meant "Chelsea" when I said "Liverpool"

You'll have to excuse me, I don't remember who was playing due to the fact that I wasn't conscious when it was on :o

[Dazz]

Paul Scholes was a lucky boy :yes:
Yeah like they said on ITV, had he not been booked already, he would have for the challenge on Super Franky Lampard. Also, replays show that Huth didn't touch RvN, I still think he deserved to be sent off, since it was a bad challenge, but it was a dive from RvN.

[toxic rooster]

What did I miss in teh second half?

[Dazz]

What did I miss in teh second half?

Huth being sent off.

RvN diving.

Carlo flapping at a cross, and RvN scoring, needless to say it was from within the 6 yard box.

[toxic rooster]

So basically nothing I haven't seen 2359025322352535235253652435234234 times before?

[Dazz]

Huth has never been sent off before.

[toxic rooster]

Well, obviously except for the Huth thing :roll:

[Dazz]

I know :p

[Rob]

I went round the Duck's house to watch the game, before the game, I said to him that Huth will either give away a penalty or get sent off. I said after about ten minutes that Gronkjaer would score, and that Nistelrooy would score from within the six yard box. But then I also said United would score just before half time (Thanks Carlo for proving me wrong) and that United would win 2-1. I got quite abit right.

Huth should have been sent off, the fact he didn't touch the player is irrelevant, it was a stupid challenge and it was dangerous.

I wonder what Rob Harvey's veiws on Paul Scholes dive are.

Didn't see the match. Was too busy spewing my guts out after last night. :(

If it's a dive then it's a dive. Why would I say different? Did I defend Gary Neville?

So RVN only scores in the 6 yard box eh? Only people who hate him would even comment on stupid thngs like that. Where is he meant to score from? The half way line? Henry never scores with his head but he is still the best striker in the business. When was the last time Zidane or Figo did too? How about Beckham using his left foot or actually beating a man? Need I go on?

"Mr. 6 yard box" vs. Any Chelsea striker - Who has scored more goals this season and thus actually doing their job the best? Arguement over.

[Dazz]

Firstly, get on MSN.

Secondly, You didn't say anything about Neville being a disgrace to English football, do you thik Scholesy is?

Thirdly, Henry gets credit because of where he can score from, he scores from more then one places and is capable of doing more for himself then RvN. and I know you were not beng serious about the half way line, but RvN could score from outside the six yard box, he couldn't even score from 12 yards when one on one today :lol:. It's not people that hate him that comment on that, its people that know about football, and state the obvious. The guy is extremley overrated. And saying about Beckham and Figo? I have always said that Becks is overrated, and I think Figo is too, plus he is a cheat (Dunno if you saw tonights game)

As for doing their job best, you can't compare, we have rotated the team so much it is not even funny, the strikers not producing the goods is mainly down to Mr Ranieri.

[toxic rooster]

Never got to see much of Porto (about 3 games in the last 2 years) :o

Would Mourinho make much of a difference to Chelsea if he does replace Ranieri?

[Wengerland]

Well in the papers yesterday it said Mourinho has told Abrahmovich he wants Beckham,Deco,Paulo Ferreira and Costinha.

I think Mourinho wouldn't rotate as much.:$

[Dazz]

Yeah he would, he is more hard hitting, fromwhat Ihave heard he wouldn't be scared to ruffle a few feathers, which is a good thing. Plus he is very overconfident, and in a league with Fergie and Wenger he will fit in nicely.

[Cactus Sid]

Anyway, we all know the big news of the day

TORQUAY ARE UP TO DIVISION 2 :love: :love: :D :D

[Wengerland]

Yeah,i was quite pleased Torquay went up.Loads of Midlands clubs in the division 3 play offs aswell.:D

[Rob]

Firstly, get on MSN.

Secondly, You didn't say anything about Neville being a disgrace to English football, do you thik Scholesy is?

Thirdly, Henry gets credit because of where he can score from, he scores from more then one places and is capable of doing more for himself then RvN. and I know you were not beng serious about the half way line, but RvN could score from outside the six yard box, he couldn't even score from 12 yards when one on one today :lol:. It's not people that hate him that comment on that, its people that know about football, and state the obvious. The guy is extremley overrated. And saying about Beckham and Figo? I have always said that Becks is overrated, and I think Figo is too, plus he is a cheat (Dunno if you saw tonights game)

As for doing their job best, you can't compare, we have rotated the team so much it is not even funny, the strikers not producing the goods is mainly down to Mr Ranieri.

I'm downloading some tunes so MSN in 10 minutes :)

I don't like diving but I wouldn't call it a disgrace to football. I'd call it embarrassing for the player or they should be embarrassed to have to resort to it. I don't like Gary Neville either. If he actually shut his trap and got on with his game, he might be a pretty good player! Elbowing players off the ball and rolling about on the floor for no reason makes me sick to admit I even follow this sport.

Has RVN scored from outside the 6 year box before? The job of a striker is to score goals regardless and he does it well. And I totally can compare them to any Chelsea stirker. Don't use your manager's tactical naivity to disguard the facts. And he is so over rated that Real Madrid have been linked with him every day for the past month. And although I don't have the figures handy, I'd wager a guess that at least one Chelsea striker has made more league appearances that RVN has this season.

[toxic rooster]

Everyone gets linked to Read Madrid.

Even I have probably been linked to Real Madrid a couple of times :o

[Dazz]

I'm downloading some tunes so MSN in 10 minutes :)

I don't like diving but I wouldn't call it a disgrace to football. I'd call it embarrassing for the player or they should be embarrassed to have to resort to it. I don't like Gary Neville either. If he actually shut his trap and got on with his game, he might be a pretty good player! Elbowing players off the ball and rolling about on the floor for no reason makes me sick to admit I even follow this sport.

Has RVN scored from outside the 6 year box before? The job of a striker is to score goals regardless and he does it well. And I totally can compare them to any Chelsea stirker. Don't use your manager's tactical naivity to disguard the facts. And he is so over rated that Real Madrid have been linked with him every day for the past month. And although I don't have the figures handy, I'd wager a guess that at least one Chelsea striker has made more league appearances that RVN has this season.

Too late for MSN, I was off half hour before you finally signed in :foc:

IMO, elbowing someone off the ball isn't as bad as diving, as Scholes was trying to con the ref into giving United a penalty, if he had conned the ref into doing so, Makelele would have more then likely have got booked. And yeah I was saying to the Duck that Neville should shut up, any decision made he goes over and whines like a baby to the ref. I would rank diving on par with play acting and being worse then off the ball incidents, as diving and play acting are trying to get an unfair advantage. Off the ball violence isn't IMO a form of cheating, as the player wasn't trying to injure the other player, he wasn't trying to get an unfair advantage, and I still do not think Desially is guilty, it was an accident.

Like Wee Gooner said, Madrid are linked with alot of people, and if they really are interested in RvN, then I think I would be right to assume it is only because they already have Beckham, and he can pick out RvN more often then not. Also, I don't have RvN's figures handy, but I am pretty damn sure that our player who has played almost as much as RvN, is Mikkael Forssell, who, for the record, has no problems scoring outside the 6 yard box. The reason I critisize RvN for not being able to score outside the six yard box, is because a decent attacker should be able to shoot from further out then that. It is laughable watching an RvN attempt from outside the box, as they go stupidly wide, and are often very week, this is why I think he is overrated, as he has to be spoon fed his goals.

[Dazz]

Nice skill Edwin :|.

Seriously that was pathetic.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Hahahahahaha

Have that Ant/packt up

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Wengerland]

LOL,nice work Van Der Sar.

It's all falling apart for the toon army.:(

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">I missed the goal but van der Sar spilled EVERYTHING against Pompey last week. It was his fault we scored. He couldn't seem to keep hold of anything. Looks like a nice bloke though.</font>

[Wengerland]

Basically he missed controlled a back pass and then tried to take it round Reyes but was tackled and Reyes scored.

[Dazz]

Hahahahahaha

Have that Ant/packt up

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Haha, Alan Shearer you fool.

How similar were his and RvN's misses this weekend? Very if you ask me, and both matches finished 1-1 too.

[Rob]

Yeah Shearer is a sh</>it striker too. :roll:

[Ogen]

Hopes are up for Villa in the Uefa Cup again now. I'm gonna feel so bad if we don't make it I mean first day of the season 6th sounded fu</>cking amazing but now all I can think about is us in Europe. C'mon Southampton turn over Newcastle

[Rob Ban Fan]

<font face=verdana size=3 color="#ff6600">First day of the season when Patrik Berger nutmegged Thomas Sorenson and I nearly had a heart attack when Gareth Barry got a dodgy penalty.

Good times :cool: ;)</font>

[Dazz]

Yeah Shearer is a sh</>it striker too. :roll:

No, he is Englands best ;)

As he has shown, he can belt a ball from outside the area, as well as score the easy ones, and he is good at headers, I would rather have Shearer then RvN. Which reminds me, how did RvN get into the Premiership team of the seaosn when Shearer is better then him.

[Rob]

Because you are about as tactically aware as you soon to be ex gaffer :p

[Rob]

Dado Prso has signed for Rangers on a 3 year deal. He was being linked to Pompey and Fulham.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Monaco to Rangers is a hell of a step down

[Wengerland]

Oh yeah,i take it on Wolves' goal today that Cort was behind the line when the shot came in?

Otherwise that should not have counted.

[Rob]

Monaco to Rangers is a hell of a step down

Rangers are a ten times bigger club than Monaco will ever be so how is that a step down? League standards are even that different. Celtic might dominate Scotland but I'd rather watch paint dry than watch another French league game.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Monaco are in the Champions League final. It is a step down to go to a club that probably won't even qualify for the group stages,

Rangers might have a big reputation, but they are a woeful side right now.

[packt up]

Hahahahahaha

Have that Ant/packt up

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

:(

Yeah we are shit.

Someone hold me.

[packt up]

PS Monaco own Rangers.

[Dazz]

Yeah seriosuly, if Chelsea had Rangers in the semi final, we would have shat all over them.

If Real Madrid had Rangers in the quarter finals, they would have shat all over them.

Rangers did rubbish in their league, and I can only assume that Prso is getting a much fatter pocket.

[Rob]

So Rangers bring in far more money than Monaco do year after year and play in front of 50,000 people every week and they aren't bigger than Monaco? Next thing you'll be telling me is Porto are bigger than Man United because they knocked us out of Europe.

Nobody said Monaco aren't a better team. Read the words carefully.

[The Mask]

I don't know. I think you're basing this more on the UK than europe. I doubt Any scottish teams are considered huge.

[Dazz]

But IMO if Rangers were a big club, they would at least do half decent in Europe occasionally. Read my words carefully, I never said that Moncao are better then Real Madrid, I just said that Rangers aren't as good as Monaco, and therefor I can't see why he would go there, unless the goolash is much more. Rangers do fu</>ck all each year, I wouldn't even consider Celtic to be a big club, and they overshadow Rangers. Like ECG says, you have a good reputation. but the Scottish league is a joke anyway.

[Cactus Sid]

Did I ever mention how much I love Wolves :love:

Also, I think Prso is foolish going to Rangers, he could have signed for a really big, in a much more comeptitive league, but hey, I guess money talks

[Cactus Sid]

Apparently the Thai PM is gonna invest in Liverpool

That has got to be even more dodgy than Abramovich

[Wengerland]

:(

Yeah we are shit.

Someone hold me.

(}) :(

[Wengerland]

Apparently the Thai PM is gonna invest in Liverpool

That has got to be even more dodgy than Abramovich

I read about Colonel Gadaaffi's(sp?) son wanting to buy Liverpool.

He's the guy who 'plays' for Perugia.

[packt up]

Play = buy his way into the team and fail a drugs test.

If I remember correctly.

[packt up]

I don't know. I think you're basing this more on the UK than europe. I doubt Any scottish teams are considered huge.

What he said.

France is generally considered to be the fifth biggest league in Europe I would say behind Spain, Italy, England and Germany.

Scotland in comparison is pretty weak.

[Dazz]

True. Plus France won the second to last World Cup, remind me where Scotland have come in thelast two world cups :lol:

[Cactus Sid]

True. Plus France won the second to last World Cup, remind me where Scotland have come in thelast two world cups :lol:

:foc:

[The Ravishing One]

:lol:

[El Capitano Gatisto]

So Rangers bring in far more money than Monaco do year after year and play in front of 50,000 people every week and they aren't bigger than Monaco? Next thing you'll be telling me is Porto are bigger than Man United because they knocked us out of Europe.

Nobody said Monaco aren't a better team. Read the words carefully.

Rangers are in atrocious amounts of debt. In terms of worldwide fan base, also, they are dwarfed by Celtic (most clubs are, Manchester United and Liverpool are about the only ones who aren't).

The only reason I can think of why Prso and Boumsong would go to Rangers, would be to line their pockets, because Rangers are well known for paying stupid money for players. That is why their finances are such a joke, and why Celtic are managing their debts.

I would consider both Celtic and Rangers "big" clubs simply due to the crowds they draw and their reputations. Celtic would be Champions League contenders if they played in a stronger, more marketable league.

[Wengerland]

Eddie Gray will stop as caretaker manager and work with the club in a consultary role.

There's been rumours that Harry Redknapp will quit Pompey if Jim Smith gets sacked.:eek:

[Rob]

Rangers are in atrocious amounts of debt. In terms of worldwide fan base, also, they are dwarfed by Celtic (most clubs are, Manchester United and Liverpool are about the only ones who aren't).

The only reason I can think of why Prso and Boumsong would go to Rangers, would be to line their pockets, because Rangers are well known for paying stupid money for players. That is why their finances are such a joke, and why Celtic are managing their debts.

I would consider both Celtic and Rangers "big" clubs simply due to the crowds they draw and their reputations. Celtic would be Champions League contenders if they played in a stronger, more marketable league.

Rangers are in less debt than Barcelona, Real Madrid and practically every big team in Italy. Aren't Manchester United the only club in Europe who aren't in debt actually?

I love the comment about "lining their pockets" though. Just shows how little every who is saying it knows. Rangers, unlike the Real's of the world, are trying to manage that debt now and ain't paying out big wages any more.

Rangers and Celtic would walk into the top 10 biggest clubs in the world list. Anyone thinking different are kidding themselves.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Rangers are in less debt than Barcelona, Real Madrid and practically every big team in Italy. Aren't Manchester United the only club in Europe who aren't in debt actually?

I love the comment about "lining their pockets" though. Just shows how little every who is saying it knows. Rangers, unlike the Real's of the world, are trying to manage that debt now and ain't paying out big wages any more.

Rangers and Celtic would walk into the top 10 biggest clubs in the world list. Anyone thinking different are kidding themselves.

Real Madrid and Barcelona are on a different stratosphere. They would not be allowed to go bust, they are special cases. Barca can call upon 100,000 season ticket holders. That is absolutely unparalleled. Real Madrid are bailed out by the Madrid council and banks any time they look like being in trouble.

If Rangers were forced to be run like a legitimate business, they would not be signing anyone, such is their financial state. I don't think Manchester United are the only club not in debt, either. Bayern Munich are a rich team, for a start. The top European sides draw in huge merchandising revenue, gate receipts and TV money domestically and in Europe.

I don't know about that the biggest clubs thing. It's debatable. I think Celtic could make the top 10, simply because they are a European Cup winning side, with a huge international fanbase. Rangers have a huge support for a British team, but nothig special in terms of worldwide. They haven't won a significant European trophy, either.

[Rob]

I don't know. I think you're basing this more on the UK than europe. I doubt Any scottish teams are considered huge.

What he said.

France is generally considered to be the fifth biggest league in Europe I would say behind Spain, Italy, England and Germany.

Scotland in comparison is pretty weak.

What does the league standard have to do with the club being big or not?

I wouldn't say their league is any better than the Scottish league really. Aside from Monaco this season, French teams have performed no better than Scottish teams in Europe over the last few seasons. Even a lesser Scottish team like Hearts and Bourdeux looked just as good each each other when they played head to head. I have been to about 12 countries around the world including 4 continents and I've seen more people wearing Rangers and Celtic shirts than any French team. Any team other than Man U and Liverpool actually (I'm sure Real Madrid would be there now since Beckham's transfer but they weren't then).

From what I have seen of the MLS, that looks more exciting that both the French and Scottish leagues. No team in it is close to their standards though.

[Rob]

I don't know about that the biggest clubs thing. It's debatable. I think Celtic could make the top 10, simply because they are a European Cup winning side, with a huge international fanbase. Rangers have a huge support for a British team, but nothig special in terms of worldwide. They haven't won a significant European trophy, either.

Actually they have.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Actually they have.

They won the Fairs Cup a long time ago, that's about it.

Rangers blew it, really. They had the potential in the early 90s to go places, they spent big money on some bad players (£12 million on Tore Andre Flo, for example), and never lived up to their potential in the Champions League, despite qualifying for it for years on end.

I think estimates put their debt at around £70 million, with several measures underway to cut costs. I think they have set up a few dodgy operations to try and spread the debt too.

[Dazz]

Ha, Flo used to be the man, he scored some really important goals for Chelsea. But couldn't cut the mustard in Sctoland. And then was whack when he went to Sunderland. If you ask me, it sums up how rubbish the Scottish league is when Chris Sutton scores three goals for Chelsea in a season, one of which being against Hull, and another in the qualifying for the Champions League, he was a real joke, and was rubbish in his last couple of seasons in Blackburn. Look at how well he got on in Scotland, what a joke.

[Rob]

Dennis Bergkamp only scored 3 goals in his last 2 years in Italy. Does it mean the Premiership is sh</>it?

Again, I'm not defending the quality of the Scottish league so why harp on about it?

[Rob]

They won the Fairs Cup a long time ago, that's about it.

Rangers blew it, really. They had the potential in the early 90s to go places, they spent big money on some bad players (£12 million on Tore Andre Flo, for example), and never lived up to their potential in the Champions League, despite qualifying for it for years on end.

I think estimates put their debt at around £70 million, with several measures underway to cut costs. I think they have set up a few dodgy operations to try and spread the debt too.

Actually it was the Cup Winners Cup and it was more recent than Celtic's last European Cup win.

To be fair, a lot of their debt comes from their new training facilities Murray Park and it's regarded as being one of, if not the best in Europe.

When you sell out as many games as they do and have the financial pull the club does, they will clear the debt sooner rather than later.

[Dazz]

Dennis Bergkamp only scored 3 goals in his last 2 years in Italy. Does it mean the Premiership is sh</>it?



Well that would explain why RvN scores as many as he does :p

[Rob]

Well that would explain why RvN scores as many as he does :p

Very good.

Come to think of it, Henry never set Italy on fire either. :wtf:

[Dazz]

Very good.

Come to think of it, Henry never set Italy on fire either. :wtf:

But didn't he play right wing alot of the time, and it was Wenger that transformed him into an attacker? I'm sure it was Juve that played him right wing.

[Rob]

But didn't he play right wing alot of the time, and it was Wenger that transformed him into an attacker? I'm sure it was Juve that played him right wing.

It's all excuses with you isn't it? :p

[packt up]

Left wing btw for Henry :p

[Dazz]

Yeah I wasn't sure, :mad:, he is right footed so I assumed it was right wing.

[packt up]

Dennis Bergkamp only scored 3 goals in his last 2 years in Italy. Does it mean the Premiership is sh</>it?

Again, I'm not defending the quality of the Scottish league so why harp on about it?

Bergkamp's not an out and out striker though like Sutton so its not a fair comparison.

He's had a great season this season most would say and I bet he hasn't got more than 10 goals probably way less.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ha, Flo used to be the man, he scored some really important goals for Chelsea. But couldn't cut the mustard in Sctoland. And then was whack when he went to Sunderland. If you ask me, it sums up how rubbish the Scottish league is when Chris Sutton scores three goals for Chelsea in a season, one of which being against Hull, and another in the qualifying for the Champions League, he was a real joke, and was rubbish in his last couple of seasons in Blackburn. Look at how well he got on in Scotland, what a joke.

He was actually brilliant for Blackburn, which is why Chelsea spent £8 million on him. He had a couple of injury hit seasons after Shearer left, but Sutton was great there, when fit.

[Cactus Sid]

I love the comment about "lining their pockets" though. Just shows how little every who is saying it knows. Rangers, unlike the Real's of the world, are trying to manage that debt now and ain't paying out big wages any more.


Consider this then.

Prso has gone on a free transfer, on a 3 year contract. He is 29, and has left a club in the Champions League final, furthermore, with Morientes going back to Real Madrid, he is guaranteed First team football, in a side which is gradually being rebuilt. The guy will be on at least £40,000 a week, at least.

You've gotta look at the reasons why anyone would sign for a club like Rangers. Sure they have history, but why would you sign for a club in a city which isn't exactly the most pleasant in the word, leaving the French Riviera. Why would you go and play football in a league where you have 5 big games a year? Prso isn't the same as Boumsong, he's coming to the last 5 years of his career, and a 3 year contract will be a nice little pay day. Boumsong was probably offered big bucks to go and play for a couple of years so Rangers could make money on him. Furthermore, Rangers are highly unlikely to be playing in the Champions League beyond the 1st round, and then, if they manage to get into the Uefa Cup, the chances are they will get knocked out. In a poor league, Rangers are miles behind the only other team who are capable of winning the title, why would Prso swap a more competitive league, because any number of sides could win the French league, for Scotland? It can only be for money.

[Cactus Sid]

Also, the Thai PM has bought a stake in Liverpool with PUBLIC FUNDS

I am seriously pissed off that Parry would consider anything so incredibly dodgy

[The Mackem]

I remember when we played in front of nearly 50 000 each week, nobody callled us a big club :(

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Also, the Thai PM has bought a stake in Liverpool with PUBLIC FUNDS

I am seriously pissed off that Parry would consider anything so incredibly dodgy

Apart from that, the guy is also an atrocious cu</>nt. He isn't averse to a bit of government-sponsored murder.

[Dazz]

He was actually brilliant for Blackburn, which is why Chelsea spent £8 million on him. He had a couple of injury hit seasons after Shearer left, but Sutton was great there, when fit.

He was good when they won the championship, he turned rubbish, and couldn't cut it in his last few seasons at Blackburn.

And it was £10Million.

[91]

They won the Fairs Cup a long time ago, that's about it.

Rangers blew it, really. They had the potential in the early 90s to go places, they spent big money on some bad players (£12 million on Tore Andre Flo, for example), and never lived up to their potential in the Champions League, despite qualifying for it for years on end.

In fairness, they weren't far off winning the bloody thing in 93 and very nearly ended up in the final itself when there was talk about them replaying it after Marseilles got stripped of the title.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

He was good when they won the championship, he turned rubbish, and couldn't cut it in his last few seasons at Blackburn.

And it was £10Million.

Dazz, don't be stupid. The only reason Chelsea spent so much money on him was because of his form at Blackburn. Seriously, use your head. I realise you were probably only about 7 when Sutton was playing for Blackburn, but he was top class, aside from a couple of season where he struggled with injury, and where Blackburn, as a team, struggled. Why would Chelsea even think of signing him if he'd gotten so bad, as you are saying?

Besides, Chris Sutton offers alot more to a football team than just goals. He's an excellent player.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

In fairness, they weren't far off winning the bloody thing in 93 and very nearly ended up in the final itself when there was talk about them replaying it after Marseilles got stripped of the title.

Yeah, but the Champions League was just two groups of 6 back then. Different prospect to now. That was an odd season, too. But Rangers did have a good side who could have been challenging more often. That's why I say they blew it. They spent the big money and ****ed up more often than not.

[91]

Two groups of four actually, and to be fair to Rangers, they did still have to make it through all the earlier rounds to make it to the final eight, from where they would have a claim of being one of the top four in Europe when all was said and done, but yes, I'm not going to disagree with Rangers underachievement in Europe over the years by and large. It's a bit like that old three pin plug joke with them...

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Two groups of four actually, and to be fair to Rangers, they did still have to make it through all the earlier rounds to make it to the final eight, from where they would have a claim of being one of the top four in Europe when all was said and done, but yes, I'm not going to disagree with Rangers underachievement in Europe over the years by and large. It's a bit like that old three pin plug joke with them...

The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League, never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League. So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from

[Wengerland]

Speaking of Scotland,Rangers and Celtic sent scouts to the Leicester/Pompey game to check on Marcus Bent.:'(

Also,West Brom have inquired about Dickov.:(

Got that from ITV teletext division 1 news.:'( :'(

[Rob]

The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League, never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League. So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from

Come on now. That's like saying the previous European Cup's don't mean what they do now because it was all knock out stages. You can't use teams underachiving as an excuse either. AC Milan actually won the thing (being that Marseille were stripped of it and it was total politics that Rangers never got to the final).

[Rob]

Marcio Amoroso is in Scotland for talks with Celtic. Obviously didn't get what he was looking for in England.

[91]

The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Certainly the tournament was weaker, but that's because only the best of the best were allowed in it. Now, whilst I personally prefered it that way, being an old school sort of guy, none of this "come 4th in the league but you're the best in Europe" rubbish, I totally understand why they modified it into the modern day Champions League - more big teams playing more matches equals more money spinning ties and bigger TV ratings, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect UEFA to want, so I'm not arguing that at all. Now, if only I can get them to scrap that stupid "You got knocked out of the Champions League? Shame. Fancy a go at the UEFA Cup?" nonsense.

Still, to suggest the tournament was just a load of shit back then is a bit of an exaggeration. That year, the competition included Marseille, Milan, PSV, Porto, Gothenburg, Barcelona and Stuttgart, amongst others, along with Leeds and Rangers, and that era would usually see around a dozen very good teams (champions of England, Scotland, Holland, France, Portgual, Spain, Holland and Italy along with any who made it out of Dynamo Kiev, Gothenburg, Red Star, Steaua, Spartak, Anderlecht and Panathinikos, back when some of those were better than they are now).

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League,

They were never in any danger, though going from champions to not winning a single away game all season is pretty appauling.

never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League.

Ahh, now that I will agree with you on - it was billed as the big Battle of Britain clash, and Rangers ended up walking in, winning both legs 2-1 if I remember correctly.

So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I just covered how that was a bit far fetched. Besides, Barcelona are certainly huge underachievers in Europe (despite being one of only four clubs to win all three major European trophies) but they were the reigining European champions that year, so you can hardly downplay their involvement.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from

You may have been one minute away from completing the sentence. :(

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Come on now. That's like saying the previous European Cup's don't mean what they do now because it was all knock out stages. You can't use teams underachiving as an excuse either. AC Milan actually won the thing (being that Marseille were stripped of it and it was total politics that Rangers never got to the final).

No, I think bringing the group format in made it easier to win the competition for big clubs, with the fewer teams. When it was a 100% knock-out tournament, it was more difficult. A well-organised, lesser team could beat a bigger one over a knock-out tie, but over 6 games in a group I think the best teams usually show their class.

I mean, look at the group Rangers contest. It had Club Bruges and CSKA Moscow in it. Decent teams, but not the cream of Europe. Rangers were not,as good as they were, and never have been, one of the four best teams in European football.

[91]

AC Milan actually won the thing

Whilst they were generally accepted as champions (they got to play in the World Club Cup anyway), they were never officially given the title after Marseille were stripped of it - in all reality, there was never a European champion that year due to all the controversy that went on afterwards.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Certainly the tournament was weaker, but that's because only the best of the best were allowed in it. Now, whilst I personally prefered it that way, being an old school sort of guy, none of this "come 4th in the league but you're the best in Europe" rubbish, I totally understand why they modified it into the modern day Champions League - more big teams playing more matches equals more money spinning ties and bigger TV ratings, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect UEFA to want, so I'm not arguing that at all. Now, if only I can get them to scrap that stupid "You got knocked out of the Champions League? Shame. Fancy a go at the UEFA Cup?" nonsense.

Still, to suggest the tournament was just a load of shit back then is a bit of an exaggeration. That year, the competition included Marseille, Milan, PSV, Porto, Gothenburg, Barcelona and Stuttgart, amongst others, along with Leeds and Rangers, and that era would usually see around a dozen very good teams (champions of England, Scotland, Holland, France, Portgual, Spain, Holland and Italy along with any who made it out of Dynamo Kiev, Gothenburg, Red Star, Steaua, Spartak, Anderlecht and Panathinikos, back when some of those were better than they are now).



Oh yeah, I would prefer it if the competition was restricted to the champions only, myself. The UEFA Cup meant alot more, back then too, which was good. The Cup Winners Cup was always kind of a novelty, though.

The early rounds were, however, full of shit. Glentoran played in it back then. I doubt they could even afford the trip to Milan now if the competition was the same format.

All the teams you mentioned were decent to good, but this is my point. Rangers were only decent to good themselves, so it's all relative. You can't make the point that Rangers were a minute away from getting to a Champions League final and expect that statement to hold the same weight it does now.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Marcio Amoroso is in Scotland for talks with Celtic. Obviously didn't get what he was looking for in England.

He would be a good signing. Lost his way a bit at Dortmund, but he was brilliant in Italy.

[91]

Oh yeah, I would prefer it if the competition was restricted to the champions only, myself. The UEFA Cup meant alot more, back then too, which was good. The Cup Winners Cup was always kind of a novelty, though.

The early rounds were, however, full of shit. Glentoran played in it back then. I doubt they could even afford the trip to Milan now if the competition was the same format.

All the teams you mentioned were decent to good, but this is my point. Rangers were only decent to good themselves, so it's all relative. You can't make the point that Rangers were a minute away from getting to a Champions League final and expect that statement to hold the same weight it does now.

True, it's certainly a LOT harder to win now - I think where you said it's easier for a big team to win it now, what you were trying to say is that it's more likely to be won (and dominated by) the big teams, it's certainly harder to win it for ANYONE now. And I don't think Rangers were ever a minute away from making it since Marseille held the advantage going into the final round of games in their group anyway (at which point Marseille won and Rangers only drew).

As for the early rounds, it depended really. I don't think there was any seeding, so it all depended who was drawn against who. You did get some weak ties in there (yeah, Glentoran for example) but by comparison, it's the same with the F.A. Cup. At the end of the day, it holds true with any knockout tournament that the team who is technically the best can be beat by an underdog on a lucky day, but to an extent, that's half the fun. I don't want to see Real Madrid winning the Champions League every other year, I want to see Steaua Bucharest outplaying Barcelona in the final and then making a mockery of them in the ensuing penalty shoot out.

Speaking of the F.A. Cup and the Cup Winners Cup, am I the only one that wants to see the CWC return? A novelty it may have been, but it always gave some teams a shot at winning a European trophy that never would have otherwise whilst still having to play a couple of big teams along the way to prove their worth. The likes of West Ham, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Tblisi, Magdeburg, Mechelen and, good lord, Glasgow Rangers - all respectable enough teams who would have never won the European Cup or, probably, the UEFA Cup. Millwall might actually hit the big time...

[El Capitano Gatisto]

True, it's certainly a LOT harder to win now - I think where you said it's easier for a big team to win it now, what you were trying to say is that it's more likely to be won (and dominated by) the big teams, it's certainly harder to win it for ANYONE now. And I don't think Rangers were ever a minute away from making it since Marseille held the advantage going into the final round of games in their group anyway (at which point Marseille won and Rangers only drew).

As for the early rounds, it depended really. I don't think there was any seeding, so it all depended who was drawn against who. You did get some weak ties in there (yeah, Glentoran for example) but by comparison, it's the same with the F.A. Cup. At the end of the day, it holds true with any knockout tournament that the team who is technically the best can be beat by an underdog on a lucky day, but to an extent, that's half the fun. I don't want to see Real Madrid winning the Champions League every other year, I want to see Steaua Bucharest outplaying Barcelona in the final and then making a mockery of them in the ensuing penalty shoot out.

Speaking of the F.A. Cup and the Cup Winners Cup, am I the only one that wants to see the CWC return? A novelty it may have been, but it always gave some teams a shot at winning a European trophy that never would have otherwise whilst still having to play a couple of big teams along the way to prove their worth. The likes of West Ham, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Tblisi, Magdeburg, Mechelen and, good lord, Glasgow Rangers - all respectable enough teams who would have never won the European Cup or, probably, the UEFA Cup. Millwall might actually hit the big time...

I meant the early group format favoured the big sides. The format they brought in this year is perfect, in my opinion, for the expanded comeptition. More knock-out rounds is the right way to go.

I am glad we've got two novel sides in the Champions League final for variation's sake, though I wish Porto would ditch the cheating tactics for one game so the final isn't terrible. Can't be argued that it is probably the most exciting competition around at the moment, though, what with all the domestic leagues being wrapped up before the final couple of weekends, pretty much.

I liked the old European ties, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. In those days I believe the UEFA cup wasn't far behind the Champions League in prestige. The Cup Winners Cup was definitely the poor, vagrant cousin of those competitions, but it was worth having.

[91]

Yeah, I was thrilled they brought back in more knockout ties - come to think of it, there weren't many small teams in there, were there? Lokomotiv Moscow were one, I guess you could call them the token surprise team.

I don't know if the UEFA Cup necessarily had more prestige, but it was certainly a LOT harder to win, since that was the tournament with all the big nations having up to four entrants, along with an extra round. Now there was a competition that only the big boys won.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I have been to about 12 countries around the world including 4 continents and I've seen more people wearing Rangers and Celtic shirts than any French team.

I'd be curious to see how many of those people were Scottish ex-pats as oppoosed to fans native to those countries.