LOST Theories (will have spoliers)

[wwe2222]

The finale is on a Sunday night

Yup, which is great because we will watch one episode Tuesday and only have to wait till Sunday for the finale.

Imagine if they kept the break and we had to wait almost 2 weeks for the finale? people would go crazy

[MVP]

Here is my take on him at the moment...

The kid is Jacob. Or someone MIB got killed or had something to do with being killed. Or maybe even his son...

Anyway, it's what he says which is important. 'You can't kill him, you know the rules'. I stated when the The Substitute had aired that 'him' could very well be Jacob. I don't think he was talking about sawyer, because MIB needs him.

I really do think it's possible MIB 'broke the rules' like Widmore supposedly did when Keamy killed Ben's daughter.

Ben stabbed Jacob, but he wasn't dead until MIB kicked him into the fire. He killed him. In essence, this could mean that he has already lost or has a price to pay. Or has to do something else and further for him to 'win'.

Either way, whoever the kid is, the Island allows it to communicate with MIB and all those who see it. Maybe is a sign that the good side is winning, the more who can see it because they are now 'ready' and no longer flawed, as Mikhail once put it. Although the people he said it to were candidates, he said they were not on the list.

I have still not written and replied to the latest posts on the latest episode, I have a few good points to make. Hopefully tomorrow. Can't actually believe that even though it's weekly, we are already near the end :(

Do you think it's possible that this kid is one of the wandering dead on the island who don't have "closure" like Michael stated in the last episode? (I don't know if closure is the right word, but I think you know what I mean). Because it seems like all of the dead people that speak to Hurley seem to know what is going to happen in the future, like Michael instructing Hurley not to let Richard blow up the plane, or Richard's wife saying that they need to stop the MIB. Somehow, I think there is a link between this kid and the rest of the wandering dead.

[wwe2222]

Do you think it's possible that this kid is one of the wandering dead on the island who don't have "closure" like Michael stated in the last episode? (I don't know if closure is the right word, but I think you know what I mean). Because it seems like all of the dead people that speak to Hurley seem to know what is going to happen in the future, like Michael instructing Hurley not to let Richard blow up the plane, or Richard's wife saying that they need to stop the MIB. Somehow, I think there is a link between this kid and the rest of the wandering dead.

He has to have greater importance than just one of the stuck ghosts. Some people are speculating it is Jacob and he respawned, and is now growing again. Sort of as a clock on MiB's plan to get off the island

[Corporate CockSnogger]

That was a different kid from the one earlier on in the season wasn't it? I just figured that they were Jacob and MiB when they were kids. As to why and how they're showing up I have no clue and will leave that to the writers to explain.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Guess Desmond's car has Anti-Locke Brakes!

BAH DOOM PISH

[Impact!]

lol

and it was the same kid apparently.

[XL]

That was a different kid from the one earlier on in the season wasn't it? I just figured that they were Jacob and MiB when they were kids. As to why and how they're showing up I have no clue and will leave that to the writers to explain.
I thought the more recent kid had darker hair and could be MiB as a kid but I could do with re-watching.

[Impact!]

Same kid, different hair colour

[Requiem]

That was a different kid from the one earlier on in the season wasn't it? I just figured that they were Jacob and MiB when they were kids. As to why and how they're showing up I have no clue and will leave that to the writers to explain.

:roll: The point of this thread is to discuss what you think is happening, not just to wait for the writers to explain it. :p

[Corporate CockSnogger]

lol well I said I thought the kids were Jacob and MiB but just didn't really have any thoughts on why. My bad though

[Jon Kano]

Do you think it's possible that this kid is one of the wandering dead on the island who don't have "closure" like Michael stated in the last episode? (I don't know if closure is the right word, but I think you know what I mean). Because it seems like all of the dead people that speak to Hurley seem to know what is going to happen in the future, like Michael instructing Hurley not to let Richard blow up the plane, or Richard's wife saying that they need to stop the MIB. Somehow, I think there is a link between this kid and the rest of the wandering dead.

I know them knowing what's going to happen is what it looks like is as work here, but I would like to think and have it actually not be that.

I don't think it's about them being able to see the future, I think it's about them being dead on the Island, they are more aware of what is at stake, what moves to make and have some kind of communion with the Island with regards to actions and reactions and the rules in play.

At this point in time, my best bet on who the kid is, is indeed either the MIB as a child, before he lost his way or his innocence, or Jacob. I'm leaning to Jacob more. Not too sure why his hair was a different but it's obviously a conscious decision by the writers, maybe it's their only way of making him age? - gradually he might get older and that is how we find out who he is? - whoever he is, he is important. But I have to go back to what I have already said, the kid is aware of 'the rules' and seems to be taunting the MIB and knows what is going on - so it could just be the Island choosing people with significance to deliver messages.

So far, we know (more or less), that certain dead people are not actually 'who they are':

Yemi - the MIB
Isabella - the MIB
Christian - MIB (I think)

Yet at the same time, people like Ana Lucia and Michael, seem to actually be those people.

But yeah, there is a link definitely.

[Reavant]

im still going with the island being purgatory or hell with people who did something bad having to stay there after death and the people who are alive have to stay there until they serve a purpose

[Jon Kano]

There are many things we have seen since the beginning of this awesome show that all point to that kind of answer. Because of that fact, I believe it is not the correct one.

[XL]

Anyone know how Sky will handle the finale?

The episode shown on Tuesday in the states is shown on Friday in the UK. They won't be able to show the final episode on the Sunday that it airs in the US. Would they wait til the Friday? What about the "risk" of spoilers?

[Jeritron]

No idea how that will work. Good luck on that

[Jon Kano]

Couldn't give a shit. I intend to download the finale and burn it to DVD and enjoy an ad free personally made finale night in.

[XL]

Oh, yeah, I mean I'll be watching it on the net as soon as humanly possible. Just wondering really.

[Ogen]

Nice, presume Widmore is planning on giving Locke back Sawyer and Co in exchange for Desmond.

[Jon Kano]

What another awesome episode.

Still, it's pretty certain now that there are going to be a a few things that are left unanswered, there are simply not enough episodes. Gonna be interesting which ones are left.

So...

- I wonder what Desmond said to Sayid to change his mind, or if they have a plan?

- Fucking loved Jack in this episode. I thought him and Sawyer were going to fight, but he mimicked his own jumping off the helicopter thing and abandoned ship. Thought that was awesome. Gonna be very interesting to see what him and MIB get up to.

- It's crazy how MIB chose Locke to be his patsy, giving him false hope of destiny and purpose, while the whole time Jack would act as his opposite, and now, Jack, believing Locke was right the whole time, is sticking and holding on to this new found faith. MIB chose Locke as his mater-plan, and Jacobs, if indeed it is Jack (right now I think so), who turns out to be the guy who truly did believe in fate, he just didn't know it. He won him around.

- I can see a few deaths coming soon also.

- I did call it! - Jack is going to fix Locke in the flash sideways reality. He will fix his back and have him walking again. Desmond with reunite everyone, somehow and someway the realities will merge, and Locke, John Locke will once again be risen, I hope.

Think it's a two fucking week break till the next fucking episode, would like to know why this is, since I can't think of a fucking reason why...but the next ep - The Candidate

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[wwe2222]

scene of the night was Jack and Sawyer talking, then Jack jumping off the f'n boat.

great scene. Not entirely convinced Flocke was telling Jack the truth about Christian, but I guess it makes sense.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I lol'd at "John Locke was a sucker"

[Jon Kano]

I lol'd at "John Locke was a sucker"

lol me too

[Ogen]

How many episodes in the season? 20?

[Jon Kano]

scene of the night was Jack and Sawyer talking, then Jack jumping off the f'n boat.

great scene. Not entirely convinced Flocke was telling Jack the truth about Christian, but I guess it makes sense.

Yeah it's confusing because he looked like he was worried when Jack asked him about, and the fact that Jack saw Christian. He seemed to cover that up with the whole 'you were looking for water' thing - but MIB as smokey has the ability to read minds, or at least flash into people's pasts. Last week just before MIB chucked Desmond into the well, Desmond said something like 'you read my mind, brother', kinda made a moment out of it when it was said.

Claire also seemed like she felt as if she knew the difference between Christian and MIB as Locke, as if she knows it wasn't him. I dunno.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I'm really worried there isn't much time left for Ben on the show :(

[Jon Kano]

How many episodes in the season? 20?

18

3 episodes left, then the two part finale, so 5 in total.

Jesus.

[Jon Kano]

I just found out the titles of the remaining episodes...highlight below to read...

14 - The Candidate
15 - Across The Sea
16 - What They Died For
17/18 - The End parts I & II

15 interests me A LOT for some reason.

[Hanso Amore]

15 is about MIB and Jacob as the "flash" (insert direction) characters

[Hanso Amore]

Good thought, Widmore trades the losties for Desmond...or he plans to kill/imprison them so they cant leave with MiB.

Looks like MIB fucking goes apeshit in 2 weeks. HOT

[Hanso Amore]

Ok, so here is my thought

JAck is working on Locke. Ben is waiting on word on locke.

Juliet will end up being jacks ex wife and will come to pick up her son.

Jin and Sun are in the hospital already.

Claire will go into labor and Ilana will bring her to the hospital.

This is going to lead to them all in the hispotal and will trigger a massive memory flash.

The only questions is how do they get Kate, Said and Sawyer there...like something could happen at the station that brings them all there...jsut not sure.

[Jon Kano]

Yeah all sounds good...

Maybe Sayid escapes and takes Kate hostage with Sawyer giving chase and they converge at the hospital. I would think with him being 'evil', he would play the part of a gun-toting, car-stealing maniac. Or en route to processing with Kate and Sayid, things happen and they end up at the hospital.

There is also the matter of one, Hugo Reyes. Not too sure about him, maybe he goes there to get his head checked out from remembering?

Don't want to count out people like Charlie, Shannon, Boone or Libby either.


And what was the deal with Sun being scared of Locke while arriving at the hospital. Maybe being shot and on the verge of death she got a flash also. A flash of what's going on on the Island now, maybe?

Don't want to count

I think the bigger question is still how?

Can't just be all in one place and they merge the realities? really?

But yeah,

[Loose Cannon]

Jack jumping off the boat last night was iconic. It just finally told the audience that Jack believes. He finally believes in something he's argued the entire series. I mean, he's done a complete 180 this season, but that scene kind of put the icing on the cake.

great episode

[Hanso Amore]

You could say it was Jack's leap of faith.

[Hanso Amore]

Has anyone mentioned this?

Remember when they were wheeling in Sun and Locke...she looked at him and said something like "No, not him!"

What up with that? Realities merging?

[Loose Cannon]

You could say it was Jack's leap of faith.

fuck yea it was.

I'm always a fan of the Lone Wolf type character in any series/movie and that's why I've always been a fan of Locke. I love those characters that go against the grain.

And Jack was like, you all may not believe, but I do. hell yea. gonna go watch this again.

[Ermaximus]

I have a feeling that at the end when that explosion hit Jack, that he died, but we didn't see it. With that I feel MiB "saved" him hence why he said "don't worry, you're with me now." Kind of how the whole Sayid thing happened with him coming back to life. Maybe Jack died for a few seconds or something? Who really knows, but with this show, I wouldn't be suprised.

Waiting 2 weeks for another episode sucks ass.

[Blitz]

Hate that Zoe bitch in a bad way. Ready to see her get thrashed by Smokey.

[Jon Kano]

Has anyone mentioned this?

Remember when they were wheeling in Sun and Locke...she looked at him and said something like "No, not him!"

What up with that? Realities merging?

Yeah I mentioned it :D

Seems to be a good explanation. Getting specific, there should be a more definite reason though why she would recognise him. Maybe being near death with the bullet, or the hit on the head on island?



I have a feeling that at the end when that explosion hit Jack, that he died, but we didn't see it. With that I feel MiB "saved" him hence why he said "don't worry, you're with me now." Kind of how the whole Sayid thing happened with him coming back to life. Maybe Jack died for a few seconds or something? Who really knows, but with this show, I wouldn't be suprised.

Waiting 2 weeks for another episode sucks ass.

I also though this is what happened to Claire. When her house got exploded by the soliders in season 4, that she died, MIB saved her, and that is why and how she vanished and became the way she is. Dogen even said the same thing that happened to Sayid, happened to Claire when he was talking to Jack.

Could be possible, but I don't think so. Think it's more going to actually be about Jack as a believer in himself, the real Locke, the Island and his destiny VS MIB's manipulation and belief that everyone is corruptible. Jack looks to be 'The Candidate' right now, and his true fight will be against MIB, alone. To some degree at least.



Hate that Zoe bitch in a bad way. Ready to see her get thrashed by Smokey.

Totally agree. Widmore can die a horrible one too. Prick.

[Loose Cannon]

:D

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[RoXer]

So has everyone just written off the idea that Sarah could be Jack's alternatew reality wife?

[Blitz]

Really like the way they aren't really presenting MIB as one of those all knowing, omnipotent villains. He seems as baffled at some of the events as we are, and he seems to "role with the punches" a lot. Top gent.

[Jon Kano]

Had a little brainwave last night, I think I know how or who they are going to merge the realities with....

It's Juliet. She will be the ex wife in the new reality, Jack once said in season 3 that she resembles Sarah, not in those exact words. But more to the point, she, like Desmond has been exposed to the same kind of energy, how do we know she was and that she is now part of the new reality? because she 'told' Miles when he communicated with her in the second part of LA X. She told Miles it worked, she must be or maybe is operating with the same intentions as Desmond is, maybe.

Just a thought I had.

[Hanso Amore]

I think it has to be juliet because she has said she will be on this season, and there is really no other way to bring her in, and it would be a swerve.

[Hanso Amore]

SO we never found out why Ben could summon smokey to kill the mercs...

[Jeritron]

I thought Smokey was at the service of the Temple until he killed Jacob. Obviously he was working on his loophole this whole time, but until he got Jacob out of the way I assumed he had certain duties to perform.

In any event, killing the mercs was in Smokey's interests. It was to keep all of the candidates safe

[wwe2222]

:D

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great f'n scene. It was like he was channeling Locke...right down to calling Sawyer "James".

I love every scene of Desmond in the alt-timeline. He is almost playing it to a point of being creepy but it works so well (the Desmond "theme" is great too)

[Jon Kano]

I thought Smokey was at the service of the Temple until he killed Jacob. Obviously he was working on his loophole this whole time, but until he got Jacob out of the way I assumed he had certain duties to perform.

In any event, killing the mercs was in Smokey's interests. It was to keep all of the candidates safe

This is correct. Or at least to a point. MIB needed certain things to happen to gain access to Locke's body. If the soldiers were not taken care of, Ben and Locke never would've found their way to The Orchid, where Ben would move the Island, and Locke never would've had to put the donkey wheel back on it's axis or leave the island.

There is so much they need to explain, Ben summoning the monster is not really one of them, although the room he did this in, and the process of draining that sink hole is very interesting. What I would like to know more about these kinds of questions would be, who actually sent the soldiers there. They said they were working for Widmore, and that secondary protocol did indeed instruct them to 'torch the island' and kill everyone anyway. Yet Widmore alluded to the idea he wasn't the one who sent them there when he met Sawyer in the sub. But then, and this is the biggest proof he DID send them, Matthew Abbanon (sp) the big black guy, he is the one who was talking to Naomi about her mission, and he was Widmore's right hand man, untll Ben shot him, lol.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

We better hear Hollywood and Vines this season! Probably in the finale.

[wwe2222]

Its good to see some people still enjoying the show. 90% of the people who post on Lostpedia are freaking out that the show sucks now and they have wasted six years of their life.

I just rewatched parts of the season 5 finale. Its actually much better knowing what we know now. This is how I expect season 6 to feel when all is said and done.

[Jeritron]

Its good to see some people still enjoying the show. 90% of the people who post on Lostpedia are freaking out that the show sucks now and they have wasted six years of their life.
.

really? why? I've thought the progression of the show has been astounding, and everything that happens weekly is just better and better.
It sucks that it's ending, but it has to and it obviously needs to go somewhere. I feel as though it may be a result of their expectations reaching some unattainable state, or their interest in it being so hardcore that they can't reconcile their own theories/opinions with the answers that have finally arrived.

People usually seem to enjoy the mystery and journey more than the resolution.
Still, I don't really get that. The show hasn't really let up at all, and they continue to do things their way and never the obvious/easy way out.
Differing view of things I guess.

[RoXer]

He cannot change from his current John Locke form. We do not know why. But Ilana said this to Ben as they were on their way to bury the real Locke. Whoever though it was Michael needs to pay more attention :D

Was just watching a repeat of season 5 on TV where Ben goes to the temple to be judged. MIB took the form of Alex and pushed Ben against a wall telling him he must not kill Locke and must obey him.

He also took the form of Christian and showed Sun and Lupidas a picture of Jack and Co. in the Dharma Initiative in an earlier episode which they alluded to in this one.

[RoXer]

But maybe when Jacob is killed is when MIB must stay in his form. That's the only pivital event I can think of that could cause that.

[wwe2222]

Jacob dying is what keeps MiB as Locke. Ilana hinted at this and I think the producers confirmed this in a podcast.

[Jon Kano]

Was just watching a repeat of season 5 on TV where Ben goes to the temple to be judged. MIB took the form of Alex and pushed Ben against a wall telling him he must not kill Locke and must obey him.

He also took the form of Christian and showed Sun and Lupidas a picture of Jack and Co. in the Dharma Initiative in an earlier episode which they alluded to in this one.

I'm just going by what Ilana said on the beach as they were burying Locke. I dunno where to go on that one now.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

The Island is in the game Just Cause 2, pretty cool looking if you ask me, reminds me how I loved walking round the Island in Via Domus, even if it wasn't that great of a game. Would love a game where you can explore the Island fully.

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[Jon Kano]

Yeah I saw this a while ago, apparently the plane explodes by default if you ever fly over it lol.

Think there is also a hatch in the WoW game universe I saw.

[Jon Kano]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090706160717/lostpedia/images/5/5c/Wow_hatch.jpg

lol

[Corporate CockSnogger]

haha yeah my ex-girlfriend told me she found that during her WoW playing days.

[Impact!]

I'm probably gonna play just cause 2 just to find the island.

[Lock Jaw]

Isn't there an actual Lost video game?

[Jon Kano]

Yes but many people didn't like it.

I only played it over the course of one week, I thought it was okish. The voice overs were terrible.

[Jeritron]

I'm sure once Lost is finished, there will be more thought put into things like that.

[Jeritron]

I'm curious about what these Lostpedia folk were complaining about. I browsed that forum and didn't see anything particularly negative. I don't doubt fanboys overreacting at all though

[wwe2222]

I'm curious about what these Lostpedia folk were complaining about. I browsed that forum and didn't see anything particularly negative. I don't doubt fanboys overreacting at all though

Mostly people picking out every small instance and point out to say "See! They didnt have this planned all along! The writers suck and wrote themselves into a corner. They are just making stuff up as they go along! "

That variety of comments.

[Jeritron]

I think people are too absolute about the whole "planned all along" thing. It's possible to have a general idea/theme/direction planned out and not every single detail mapped out.
Obviously they never had every episode and event written in stone. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't mean they're making it up as they go along either. I don't think the majority of people out there have the slightest clue of how a writing or creative process works at all.

[Lock Jaw]

I like to think they started with a general idea of where things were going, then made it up as they went along, and then when they knew when the end was going to be, they solidified their plans.

[Jeritron]

They obviously make stuff up as they go along. It's called writing. I don't see why this a bad thing at all. It's expected and I'm actually glad it happens. That comes with the territory of writing a seasonal network TV show. They don't always know what they're going to run into, and things change.
They more than likely plot things season to season. Obviously entire seasons seem to be planned out in advance. Things like the increased role of Linus, or the twists and turns we see from episode to episode are all improvised. It's not like something like Faraday parachuting onto the island, or the boat not being Penny's , etc. had to be set in stone.
That is all just story that gets the show from point A to point B.
It's the bigger picture. The Island, The Smoke Monster, The Others, Richard Alpert. The very big questions and ideas are likely what was planned in advance.

The writers knew The Hatch wasn't going to be the biggest deal in the end, but they made it seem that way because it's good storytelling.

Either way I don't really care. It's fiction. It's all made up as they go along on some level. Whether it's planned word for word, season by season, or episode by episode is really irrelevant to the final product.
The show has set it's own end date and direction, and is ending on it's own terms. I don't see why people are so skeptical that they have a plan.

[wwe2222]

They obviously make stuff up as they go along. It's called writing. I don't see why this a bad thing at all. It's expected and I'm actually glad it happens. That comes with the territory of writing a seasonal network TV show. They don't always know what they're going to run into, and things change.
They more than likely plot things season to season. Obviously entire seasons seem to be planned out in advance. Things like the increased role of Linus, or the twists and turns we see from episode to episode are all improvised. It's not like something like Faraday parachuting onto the island, or the boat not being Penny's , etc. had to be set in stone.
That is all just story that gets the show from point A to point B.
It's the bigger picture. The Island, The Smoke Monster, The Others, Richard Alpert. The very big questions and ideas are likely what was planned in advance.

The writers knew The Hatch wasn't going to be the biggest deal in the end, but they made it seem that way because it's good storytelling.

Either way I don't really care. It's fiction. It's all made up as they go along on some level. Whether it's planned word for word, season by season, or episode by episode is really irrelevant to the final product.
The show has set it's own end date and direction, and is ending on it's own terms. I don't see why people are so skeptical that they have a plan.

completely agree :y: At the end of the day, i have been more than entertained for 6 seasons of watching the show, discussing it, and reading about it.

[The Destroyer]

The Island is in the game Just Cause 2, pretty cool looking if you ask me, reminds me how I loved walking round the Island in Via Domus, even if it wasn't that great of a game. Would love a game where you can explore the Island fully.
It's not the Island - there's a storyline reason in one of the game missions as to why your plane crashes the moment you fly over that one particular island. Although what is on the island is still pretty bizarre.

The Hatch is probably just there as a homage.

[RoXer]

What?

The whole island is there as an homage.

[Jeritron]

I re-watched Ab Aterno, the Alpert episode tonight.

QUESTION-
Man in Black takes the form of Isabella, Richard's wife, as part of his plot to convince him to kill Jacob.
How is this possible? We know MIB can take the form of dead people like Locke and Christian, but their bodies have to be on the island. As far as we know, and common sense dictates, Isabella is not on the island. How can he take her form?
If this is the case, he wouldn't have needed Christian or Locke's bodies brought to the Island which has been specifically stated to be the case.

[Hanso Amore]

I think they jus tfucked up.

Like Yemis body was there, so it worked for eko...but I honeslty think this was just some plot oversight.

[Jeritron]

Everyone he has appeared as has had their body on the island. Locke, Christian, Yemi, Alex Rosseau. Plus he said he needed their bodies in last weeks episode.
So I guess it really was a mistake. The only explanation is if he can somehow briefly imitate the dead, but not longterm. That doesn't make much sense.
Or if Isabella's body was on the ship. That also doesn't make any sense and wasn't stated.

I also just read something about him appearing as Christian years before the crash of flight 815. I never thought of that. Was this when he met the real Locke by the wheel? I hadn't even thought of that before, but was that during time travelling and before Christian's body was ever on the island?

[Reavant]

perhaps she wasnt the MIB

[RoXer]

I have a bad feeling that the overall theme/message in the final will be something along the lines of "All you need is love/love conquers all"

[Jeritron]

perhaps she wasnt the MIB

She was though. It wasn't her spirit, Richard can't see spirits. Later in the episode her spirit is standing right next to him and he can't see her.
They also reveal that MIB was taking her form. It was the enhanced version

[RoXer]

I also just read something about him appearing as Christian years before the crash of flight 815. I never thought of that. Was this when he met the real Locke by the wheel? I hadn't even thought of that before, but was that during time travelling and before Christian's body was ever on the island?

Maybe the monster is a part of the island and time traveled also? So he had already discovered Christian's body.

[Jeritron]

That one doesn't really matter to me at all since it's all relative really. I just wonder how/why he was able to replicate Isabella, and based on the rules they have set out it seems to be a fuck up

[Reavant]

did they say in the footnotes of this episode it was for sure the mib taking her body?

[Jeritron]

Yes. That much was made obvious in the episode too, but they came out and actually flat out said it in the footnotes

[Jon Kano]

Jacob even said it wasn't his wife, to Richard.

The only other idea is that they do not have to be on the Island. Ben saw his mother as a child on the Island, and her body was never buried on the Island.

[wwe2222]

The extended episodes with the captions arent neccessarily canon. The producers said they dont have time to really look at those, though someone is there to try and make sure everything is correct.

Also, I dont think every dead person that has appeared on the island is the smoke monster. Some are dreams, some are manifestations of another kind/hallucinations.

Christian was traveling back in time I assume because Smokey had already started using him and I assume could keep his form in 1977, so yes, technically Christian appeared on the Island long before the Lost folk ever did.

While we have been told the whispers are dead people on the island, that doesnt mean MiB cant assume other forms of dead people from characters' past. The first time he meets Richard, he is clearly scanning him, only after which Isabella appears.

Same I would think with Dave and Hurley, and Ben with his mother. Go back and watch Man Behind the Curtain. Richard's reaction to young Ben saying he saw his dead mother out in the jungle isnt exactly one of happiness.

[Jon Kano]

It isn't exactly one of horror either, more interest in the fact and idea he can see her. Like MIB was with Sawyer and Desmond seeing the scruffy child who plagues him.

What is all this stuff about Christian being in 1977? When? where?

[wwe2222]

It isn't exactly one of horror either, more interest in the fact and idea he can see her. Like MIB was with Sawyer and Desmond seeing the scruffy child who plagues him.

What is all this stuff about Christian being in 1977? When? where?

Actually its previous to 1977, when Locke has to turn the wheel. He is the one who tells Locke to get up and do it. (Its MiB in Christian form, not actually Christian). Its previous to the well or Orchid station being built.

[Jeritron]

Yea it's when they were time jumping.

I suppose MIB can just scan people and assume the form of the dead, but that sort of contradicts MIB's statements that he needed Locke's body brought to the Island so he could assume it.
Maybe the difference is just that he can only physically take the form of people who he has the body of, but can temporarily create the illusion of the dead from people's memories. We don't know if anyone else would have been able to see Isabella when Richard did, or the same for Ben's mother.
Christian is a non issue really. We know he took his form, but he never said that he needed his body to do so. I think that's just assumed since it's the form he took most often other than Locke's, and his body was there too.

There's also the possibility that MIB was Kate's horse, and Hurley Bird. I don't know about that, but I've heard it suggested.

I think the MIB/Jacob episode will shed some more light on exactly what his powers are. It's sort of unclear right now, aside from the hints and obvious connections.
I hope it sheds a little light on this though.

[Loose Cannon]

crap, I was all excited for a new Lost last night. looking foward to it all day. Then @ 8:59pm, it dawned on me that the show is on a 2 week hiatus. :(

I rewatched the episode though

[Hanso Amore]

crap, I was all excited for a new Lost last night. looking foward to it all day. Then @ 8:59pm, it dawned on me that the show is on a 2 week hiatus. :(

I rewatched the episode though

Same :( I ended up just drinking a few beers and playing Bad Company 2 on Xbox with friends.

Tuesday night my wife is out of the house, and usually I enjoy some lost. Made me sad.

[Jon Kano]

This whole thing about MIB/Christian being around when the Island was time jumping, its not really that significant or a big deal. And yeah, pretty sure the main difference is with Locke's body and having him dead before he could look like him - the difference is that he can use that body in a physical way. That is why when Locke asked Christian for help in the well, Christian said he could not, probably because he cannot actually touch or physcially help Locke.

And to be honest, I don't think MIB is/has been Christian the whole time, it just doesn't fit or seem the case. MIB kinda looked surprised when Jack said he saw his dead father, and that he kinda pulled that 'you needed to find water' reply out of the blue, either it was a good guess or he scanned his mind there and then. I dunno, there are just certain instances which make me think that MIB, Jacob and even The Island have used Christian Sheppard to get things done before. Has everybody fogotten this....this does not seem like the actions, words or intent of the MIB

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Also 'Kate's Horse', I used to think that was significant like the Hurley bird also, but its getting to the point where whatever it was, it has no real importance now. I mean neither lead them to do anything or made a significant change to anything. I thought the horse could've just been part of the farm that was stationed at The Flame. There were tons of farm animals there.

[Jeritron]

MIB could have used Christian in a physical way, though, since his body was there. I don't see why this would be any different than Locke

[Jon Kano]

Unless he isn't dead?

The only other possibility is that Christian is not dead, maybe MIB is using that as his A-bomb to pull out on Jack? Maybe he has had Christian this whole time, saved and kept and is actually serving the MIB like one of his 'claimed'.

[Jon Kano]

Claire smiled when she asked Jack if MIB had told him that it was him pretending to be their father, and it just looked like she had her own private joke going or she knew more.

[Jeritron]

Well that would mean Christian was risen from the dead, and Locke could do the same.

[Jeritron]

Claire smiled when she asked Jack if MIB had told him that it was him pretending to be their father, and it just looked like she had her own private joke going or she knew more.

I don't read too much into how the actors react to things. There seems to be a lot of analysis of the looks on characters faces when things are said.
I understand the subtleties of acting, but I think it's placing stock in something that's not really there.
Most of these actors have no clue what is going on in the next episode

[Jon Kano]

It doesn't matter if they know or not, if there is anything to be seen in their reactions, they will be directed to do so. I'm just sayin, usually everything we see or hear is for a reason.

[Jon Kano]

Well that would mean Christian was risen from the dead, and Locke could do the same.

Which is exactly what I said will happen. I believe once the realities merge, John Locke will be risen again. Whether we just see the smoke monster fly out of his body, or have his old body emerge from the beach, I dunno. Just think/hope that's how it's gonna go.

[Jeritron]

What is this business about MIB scanning minds? That sounds purely made up. If he had the ability to scan minds he would have known Sawyer was planning to double cross him, the candidates were planning to escape on the boat, and that Sayid didn't kill Desmond, etc. etc. etc.

[Reavant]

hes stuck in locke's body now and cant do it anymore?

[Jeritron]

I too am of the mind that real Locke is returning. It's possible that he won't, but thematically I doubt it not happening.
I felt pretty strongly that it would happen all along, but last week really sealed it I think. When MIB called John Locke a sucker, I felt it was confirmation.
Seems unlikely to slap him in the face like that, and not have him eat those words.

[Jeritron]

hes stuck in locke's body now and cant do it anymore?

I think it's obvious that he can scan people's pasts, and knows things about people on the island. He definitely has those type of powers, like Jacob does.
I don't think he can flat out read minds though. There's been nothing to really indicate that.

[Jon Kano]

What is this business about MIB scanning minds? That sounds purely made up. If he had the ability to scan minds he would have known Sawyer was planning to double cross him, the candidates were planning to escape on the boat, and that Sayid didn't kill Desmond, etc. etc. etc.

Well he's done it to Eko and Richard definitely. I'm not saying he can scan their minds and figure out what they are going to do. But he can scan their pasts, and at least if he has some other skills to it, scan their mind to see what they are thinking at the time. Like Jack asked him WHY he supposedly posed as Christian in the jungle, and since Jack was thinking about when he was following Christian when he asked him, maybe MIB picked up that it lead him to find water/the caves.

[Jon Kano]

I don't think he can flat out read minds though. There's been nothing to really indicate that.

Yeah I didn't mean or suggest that was a definite case.

Who was it laughed off my idea of Locke coming back from the dead way back when anyway?

[Jeritron]

No idea but I have never subscribed to the idea of him being dead. He's been "dead" since the finale of Season 4. He's a pretty damn important character to the show, and hugely popular.
As far as a "main character" on Lost goes, I think he shares that role with Jack. I will be a bit suprised if he doesn't come back.

My prediction is that his return is the final cliffhanger. It will probably be the huge moment that ends the episode before the finale.

[wwe2222]

Kate's Horse is not the monster (as confirmed by producers this year)

The difference between needing Locke's body and Christian's body is simple: Being Christian would not have gotten him an audience with Jacob.

Once he was able to manipulate Locke into being the leader of the others and gain their trust, he was able to use that on Richard and Ben to get into Jacob's temple at the foot and use Ben to kill Jacob.

It was all about finding the right loophole to get to that point.

My theory is now that Jacob is dead, he needs to get all the candidate's off the island so he can leave too. If there are no remaining candidates, there is noone to hold him back. (Though I think everyone assumes this).

I think MiB is also the reasoning behind the whole getting pregnant on the island thing. I assume if people cannot get pregnant there, it was harder to produce new groups of candidates.

[Jeritron]

I was thinking about it, and maybe a lot of us had the wrong idea about MIB needing Locke's body.
Maybe he can just imitate the dead, and only needed Locke to kill himself. The body was brought back as part of simulating the conditions of 815.
MIB needed Locke's body brought back so people, namely Ben and Richard, would believe that Locke had risen from the dead and they would then take him to Jacob.
That could be why he said he needed the body brought back.

That would put rest to the idea that he needs the physical body of a dead person on the island to replicate them. It just so happens that the body of everyone he has posed as is on the island, except Isabella.

That's the best I got right now. An episode highlighting MIB's history/powers is really key

[Jon Kano]

Well yeah I thought all of that was agreed and known; that they needed his body, and they needed to recreate the conditions as best they could so they could make it back; the guitar, Christian's shoes on Locke, Sayid in cuffs not kate etc

I still think the main question is not what his true powers is or are, but what Jack asked him, who he has actually been and when. I want to know who the guy in the chair was in the cabin in season 3, I want to know who asked Locke to 'help him', and I want to know who was in the cabin with Christian in season 4.

[Reavant]

but the good people said they needed locke's body to go back.... penny's mom and jaco himself... why would they want that if bringing them back would give mib a chance to leave

[XL]

Which is exactly what I said will happen. I believe once the realities merge, John Locke will be risen again. Whether we just see the smoke monster fly out of his body, or have his old body emerge from the beach, I dunno. Just think/hope that's how it's gonna go.
I really hope that Locke doesn't rise from the dead. And by that I mean the body of Locke buried at the beach.

It doesn't make any sense for the "monster to fly out of his body" because that is not his body. MiB hasn't taken over Locke's actual body, he just appears as Locke.

The only way I would buy it is if Locke's consciousness switches across to ALT_Locke's body - as we've seen happen in part to Desmond and Hurley.

The only problem there is that ALT_Locke is in 2004 whilst the on-island action is presumably in 2007(?).

[Jeritron]

but the good people said they needed locke's body to go back.... penny's mom and jaco himself... why would they want that if bringing them back would give mib a chance to leave

They didn't know what he was plotting. If they did they wouldn't have gone through with that.

[Jeritron]

Well yeah I thought all of that was agreed and known; that they needed his body, and they needed to recreate the conditions as best they could so they could make it back; the guitar, Christian's shoes on Locke, Sayid in cuffs not kate etc

I still think the main question is not what his true powers is or are, but what Jack asked him, who he has actually been and when. I want to know who the guy in the chair was in the cabin in season 3, I want to know who asked Locke to 'help him', and I want to know who was in the cabin with Christian in season 4.

I forgot about that. Someone else was in the cabin with Christian at the same time?
I thought it was just Christian and Claire one time, and a mysterious figure another time.
Can you tell me what episode it was I'm curious to see it. I recall all that stuff with the cabin but I don't really remember any of the details.

[Jon Kano]

I forgot about that. Someone else was in the cabin with Christian at the same time?
I thought it was just Christian and Claire one time, and a mysterious figure another time.
Can you tell me what episode it was I'm curious to see it. I recall all that stuff with the cabin but I don't really remember any of the details.

Yeah it was the first episode of the 4th season, The Beginning of the End? - Hurley finds the cabin, and he looks through a window and sees Christian, just as another person peeps through the window, or key hole or something, you only get to see their eye.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100120085055/lostpedia/images/thumb/a/a6/Cabineye.jpg/800px-Cabineye.jpg

Claire was in the cabin with Christian during season 4, Cabin Fever when Locke went to get further instructions.

[Jon Kano]

They didn't know what he was plotting. If they did they wouldn't have gone through with that.

See I agree with you there, like how Widmore said Locke needed to be back on the Island or the wrong side will win. I believe at that point and what he was saying was that he knew of the MIB and that Locke was important but didn't know how much, despite the fact Widmore saw Locke on the Island back in the 50s looking the same as ever.

But I do believe there is one person who knew, or who was at least prepared for Locke to be used as a vessel for the MIB, Jacob. I think Jacob obviously has some kind precognition as one of his powers, kinda like Desmond, he sees flashes or something. But the point is, he saved Locke's life, he bought him to the Island and he didn't seem surprised when he saw his body enter the temple. I know you said about their reactions and stuff. But I just get this feeling Jacob's overall plan is to have faith in his candidates and have them discover their own journey, but also part of his plan is formulated to work with, and eventually weaken MIB's own moves.

[Jon Kano]

I really hope that Locke doesn't rise from the dead. And by that I mean the body of Locke buried at the beach.

It doesn't make any sense for the "monster to fly out of his body" because that is not his body. MiB hasn't taken over Locke's actual body, he just appears as Locke.

The only way I would buy it is if Locke's consciousness switches across to ALT_Locke's body - as we've seen happen in part to Desmond and Hurley.

The only problem there is that ALT_Locke is in 2004 whilst the on-island action is presumably in 2007(?).

Yeah ok, it is not Locke's body, but MIB cannot change again, he can only become the smoke monster, right? so in a way, there is actually another body of John Locke walking around, and if like you said, a consciousness is shifted from the real Locke to the body MIB is using, it will more or less shift the smoke monster out and have Locke back in his body. I know, I know, it's not going to happen like that, I'm just thinking with the simplest ideas in mind - my point is - they have a lot to play with in terms of bringing the real Locke back if and hopefully when it happens.

[XL]

I suppose.

The way I see it though is that the Smoke Monster is trapped in the form of Locke. So, if what you suggest happens, Smokey wil be forced back into smoke form or into his own human form (MiB) and there won't be a "spare" body for Locke.

For me that's pushing it too far. Then again, this is LOST!

[Jon Kano]

Yeah you are right though....

But when the realities merge, or whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to involve more metaphysical and supernatural aspects that will make sense of whatever happens, at least to some degree.

What if everyone who is in the alt timeline is simply bought back/merges with those on the Island, as in those who are still alive; Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jin, Desmond, Sun, Ben, Miles - and then those who are not - Locke and Juliet (who is going to be Jack's ex wife) will simply be put there, their bodies and consciousness taken from the alt timeline and place back on the Island as new, yet original entities.

In my opinion Juliet is going to be a big key - she is going to be like Desmond, aside from being exposed to the same shit he was, in the same place, although at a different time, she also told Miles 'it worked' (not as a spirt, as a person alive in an alternate reality, I believe) and she is operating as a guide to get them all together to remember and have whatever happens, happen.

[Hanso Amore]

I honestly think we will get a shit ending.

THe islandwill play out with no jack and crew stopping MiB and all of tem dieing.

But then they will all regain the memories in the alt timeline and live happily ever after, having never went to the island but regaining their memories and relationships in the new world.

Except Kate who will go to jail :)

[RoXer]

No, everyone is going to save their significant other because love conquers all.

[Jon Kano]

I am worried about the ending. And everything making sense and having a meaning, I would like everything to be answered as much as possible.

Matthew Fox has said not all the mysteries will be answered, and that questions of fate and destiny won't be concluded either. It's going to more about the characters.

But then I have read different from Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

[XL]

I honestly think we will get a shit ending...

Except Kate who will go to jail :)


You call that a shit ending? I've been waiting for Kate to get her comeuppance for at least 3 seasons!!

But then they will all regain the memories in the alt timeline and live happily ever after, having never went to the island but regaining their memories and relationships in the new world.

This is kinda the thing I'm not getting. A lot of people seem to believe that Desmond awakening the ALT_Losties to what happened on the island will make them want to "back" there leading to the merging of the timelines.

My question is: Why would they wanna?

Island_Desmond had Penny but sought Widmore's approval. ALT_Des already has the approval and has now met Penny. Island_ Hurley has terrible luck and the love of his life is dead, ALT_Hurley is the luckiest man alive and has just met Libby.

Why would they want or need to go back to the island when they have everything they want/need "at home".

Obviously there are some twists and turns to come and that's all based on speculation.

[Hanso Amore]

Ill conquer your face with my cock.

I think we are at the same thing. Love is the bees knees, so they will still have each other in the alt world, where the lovers are all still alive.

[Jon Kano]

You call that a shit ending? I've been waiting for Kate to get her comeuppance for at least 3 seasons!!



This is kinda the thing I'm not getting. A lot of people seem to believe that Desmond awakening the ALT_Losties to what happened on the island will make them want to "back" there leading to the merging of the timelines.

My question is: Why would they wanna?

Island_Desmond had Penny but sought Widmore's approval. ALT_Des already has the approval and has now met Penny. Island_ Hurley has terrible luck and the love of his life is dead, ALT_Hurley is the luckiest man alive and has just met Libby.

Why would they want or need to go back to the island when they have everything they want/need "at home".

Obviously there are some twists and turns to come and that's all based on speculation.

I know, its as if they are all better off etc.

This is what no one knows though, how or what will happen, its too late for them all to meet and decide what to do, get on a plane and go back. I think it's just going to be a matter of them being in the same place at the same time again, and BOOM, some kind of mega mind flash or something will happen that leads to the merging. It might not even be a merge. But there is a reason for this new reality and something has to happen. What else could it be?

[Jeritron]

The regular timeline characters would not be happier in the alt. timeline. That's the whole point. We are seeing versions of their lives that could have been better, but at the same time they would not want everything that happened on the island to go away.

[Hanso Amore]

Desmond doesnt have his child and the friends he made, he cant turn his back.

[Jon Kano]

I guess I also meant that the new timeline characters, at this point and if it wasn't for the other timeline and Desmond, at least they would not know anything, better or worse.

[XL]

He's got time to have his son, he's still in 2004 remember.
He turned his back until Widmore literally dragged him back.

[Jeritron]

I have no idea how the timelines are going to come together, I just know something has to give. I can't wait to see what it is.
I don't think they will live happily ever after in the alt. timeline at all though. I think the regular timeline is where things will be resolved.

[XL]

I agree that that would be the more satisfying climax.

[Jon Kano]

.. I think the regular timeline is where things will be resolved.

I agree and would want this to happen.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

The writers have stated that the final episode will take place on the island haven't they? Or was it just the final scene?

[Jon Kano]

So after a bit of theorising and further study, it does indeed look like Ben is either going to die, or be shot by Juliet in the upcoming episodes.

I totally forgot about the Ajira water bottle Sawyer and co found in season 5 when they were time shifting. One of the people who Juliet shoots at gets shot, no doubt.

:(

[Hanso Amore]

So after a bit of theorising and further study, it does indeed look like Ben is either going to die, or be shot by Juliet in the upcoming episodes.

I totally forgot about the Ajira water bottle Sawyer and co found in season 5 when they were time shifting. One of the people who Juliet shoots at gets shot, no doubt.

:(

You mean during the flashes through time?

[Jon Kano]

Yeah. The outrigger chase between them and the 'other others'.

[Jeritron]

Interesting. I've been wanting to go back and watch some older episodes again, but I'm going to wait until the series ends.

[Jon Kano]

I just shifted through series 4 and 5 last night and noticed the Ajira logo on the bottle, meant nothing at the time but now it seems as though Ben, Frank or Richard will be shot and/or die.

[Hanso Amore]

SO someone at work brought this up.

Eloise is secretly working for MIB to bring Daniel back to life. That is why she always seems to be shady and in the know. That is why she split from Charles. This is why in the flash sideways she wants Desmond to let it be.

[Jon Kano]

I doubt that very much. She was the leader of 'The Others', Jacob's followers. God knows how many years she and Richard dedicated themselves to the cause of The Island and Jacob's will.

If anything she broke from Charles because she realised he was really only after power.

She said Desmond wasn't ready, and yeah she is shady but I doubt she has aligned herself with MIB. I would assume she is doing everything she can so end the battle against him, which could in turn bring Farraday and everyone else back. I doubt it though.

[wwe2222]

I just shifted through series 4 and 5 last night and noticed the Ajira logo on the bottle, meant nothing at the time but now it seems as though Ben, Frank or Richard will be shot and/or die.

This is the going theory now. I think you forgot Miles though, as he is the one who went with Ben and Richard.

Id love to know what the three of them are talking about btw on their trek

[Jon Kano]

Yeah I meant Miles, not Frank.

Be interesting to see if this is the only time shift/cross over cause /effect to come about by the end.

[wwe2222]

good interview with damon lindelof regarding finale (no spoilers)

http://www.sl-lost.com/2010/04/29/damon-lindelof-talks-lost-finale-flash-sideways-more/#more-2772

[Jeritron]

Great interview

[Jon Kano]

Would love to meet him one day.

[Shaggy]

Can someone confirm for me that the episode this week was a rerun. It didnt tape on my dvr and when I went to watch it on demand it was an episode from like two weeks ago. I just wanted to confirm it with yall so I could stop looking for it.

[XL]

Yeah, they've had a weeks break (the bastards). Should be an all new episode next Tuesday I believe.

[Ermaximus]

New episode tomorrow night and from what I hear, it's VERY depressing. Guess we'll see soon enough.

[Jon Kano]

I smell a cull to be fair. Ben, on the boat, shot by the hot whore Juliet.

[Ermaximus]

Wow. I just found out who bites it tonight. Can't say I'm shocked by some of them, but a few upset me for reasons that'll make sense tonight. Also found out who Adam and Eve were in the cave from season 1.

[FearedSanctity]

Also found out who Adam and Eve were in the cave from season 1.

YUS, been dying to know this

[thedamndest]

Ermax, where are you getting your spoilers?

[Jeritron]

They better not show up in here or I'll delete the entire forum

[thedamndest]

I will cut a bitch.

[Ermaximus]

Trust me, I'm not posting shit in here. I like you guys too much to ruin anything for you. TBH, I read the spoilers from another forum I frequent, but I'm hoping said spoilers aren't fully true. We will find out in a little over 5 hours. :D

[Jeritron]

:(

Great episode

[wwe2222]

holy shit, great episode. Sad about Frank though, really loved this character.

[Loose Cannon]

NOOOOOOOOO :(

[Loose Cannon]

oh shit, didn't even realize Frank died too. christ :(

wtf, nobody even asked about him when they got to the shore. fuck you writers

[Reavant]

jin, sun, sayid and frank right?

[Reavant]

what ever happened to miles?

[Loose Cannon]

yep, I knew as soon as I saw that bomb that somebody was going to pull a Michael and I was thinking Sayid because that was going to be his redemption type deal. Just like Charlie and Michael

[Loose Cannon]

Miles went with Ben and Richard to somewhere I forget. We have not seen them for like 2 or 3 episodes

[Jeritron]

Sun and Jin's entire story is incredible. What a well developed story through 6 seasons. Two truly loveable characters. I can't believe how well done and perfect that ending was for them. At first I wsan't sure if they were actually going to die then and there, and wasn't sure if it was the time or place. It went down perfectly though. It was genuinely emotional.

Sayid was tied for my favorite character at one point. He was one of the first characters I loved, and up throughout the show I always considered him one of the best.
The past season or so he has kind of taken a minimized role. He was still great, but there wasn't much going on with him.
I'm glad he ended up dying in such a heroic way. It was probably time for him to go, and since he had been "claimed" I was happy to see the old Sayid return for some final heroics.

Frank was cool. Good comic relief but not really a major, fleshed out character. I enjoyed him but at this point he was probably just taking up space story-wise.

[Jeritron]

Miles went with Ben and Richard to somewhere I forget. We have not seen them for like 2 or 3 episodes

Yea those 3 are hiking through the jungle somewhere, avoiding the smoke monster at all costs.
They're due to show back up though.

[Jeritron]

I think tonight was really the icing on the cake for MIB. For the whole season everyone's toyed with the idea that he may actually be good, but now he's responsible for setting all our main characters up to die, and in the case of 4 of them succeeding.
I highly doubt he is anything but the total baddie he has shown himself to be. Next week we'll get his "side" of the story, but even still he's not really redeemed. It's sort of like Vader. Maybe he has a more complicated backstory than just being evil incarnate, but it still doesn't change the fact that he's pure evil right now.

[Loose Cannon]

that was a great setup.

[Jeritron]

I had been thinking about that for a while too. I thought, if MIB is really so evil, and he can't leave with them still on the island, why can't he just kill all of them?
I chalked that up to him either not being able to kill them, or actually having good intentions. Tonight was sort of a reveal in that sense.

[Jeritron]

I can't believe there are only 3 episodes left, and it ends this month.

[Lock Jaw]

Sun and Jin was so very depressing.

Was sure that Jin would leave her after she would say something like "Go. Be with our daughter." but nah. Neither one mentioned their daughter, and so Jin decided to make her an orphan.

[Jeritron]

She was left with family, but yea I didn't even think of that. I guess in the very short moment they didn't think things through to that extent

[Jeritron]

The finale is going to run 2 1/2 hours, instead of 2.

[Jeritron]

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-series-finale-will-expand-to-two-and-a-half-hours/

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Fucking lost for words right now

[Corporate CockSnogger]

One good thing is that I will now have a brand new crying Jack picture to use as my msn display picture:y:

[Ermaximus]

For those wondering where Miles, Ben, and Richard went, they went back to the old Dharma barracks to get explosives and such to blow up the plane. They said that when they split up I believe.

Really was choked up over Sun, Jin, and Frank all drowning in the sub too. Or at least I think Frank's dead, but as somebody posted earlier, they made no mention of him so it was like a big fuck you to Frank's character.

It's crazy to think that from everybody in we started with, only 9 are left.

Group A: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley

Group B: Ben, Richard, Miles

Desmond in that well, and then Crazy Claire with MIB.

Crazyness ensured!!! Next week they answer the skeletons in the cave question. I just think the whole thing with MIB is incredible and maybe he's just doing all of this because he's been on the island for so long. Does anyone know how long he's been there or have they not told us yet?

[Corporate CockSnogger]

They haven't mentioned how long he's been there other than it being a very long time. Really looking forward to next weeks episode.

[ORANGE-LOCKE]

Coming from a long time reader here, and few time poster..

I hated to see them go, but i can deal with the loss of all 3 "Main" characters, (Main, as in original crash survivors). Ive always considered Sayid one of my top 3 faves and was glad to see him go out as a hero. Hated it for Sun and Jin too, and thought the end of their story was good other than the fact that Jin never got to meet his daughter. As someone put it, i was thinking for sure that Sun would mention that and he would go...guess not. I think all 3 of those character's stories were complete for the most part and that them dying progresses the show to where it is heading and ending...and definitely clarifies the MIB's role..

I was a fan of Frank too, and hoped he wouldn't die....i guess we dont have a pilot now...with the sub destroyed and no pilot for the plane, can't wait to see how some (if any) are gonna get off the island...

[Jon Kano]

Fucking awesome episode.

- I got teary eyed with the sub evacuation.

- Love Jack lately, his new 'faith' persona suits him and is just so good to see.

- Sayid's face turn was good, but never really understood or explained his heel turn.

- It's obvious now there are going to be so many things left unanswered with regard to the earlier seasons especially.

- Even though the cull has arrived/prob will carry on, I believe they are all going to come back once the realities merge.

- Cannot wait until 'my main man' Desmond does something cool.

[Lock Jaw]

Hurley is gonna save the universe.









Then he is going to say "Dude."

[Hanso Amore]

Like the way Frank has only 5 lines all season, why even have the character? Then you kill him off without mention...Just seems like they could have had him die in the crash or something, saving the plane, and have his character go out better.

[Hanso Amore]

Also, I dont think they even bothered to put Frank in the Alt verse yet.

[wwe2222]

I dont think it is Widmore's intent to leave the island. He wants the island back for himself, so he doesnt care of there is no plane or sub.

Really the only people who want to leave the island right now are MiB and Sawyer.

What other earlier season mysteries do people want answered? Adam and Eve, Walt?

They kept Frank around to keep up the possibility of leaving on the plane.

[Jon Kano]

Also, it seems the kind of logic akin to the story and the Island that he indeed went down with his ship (he was controlling it by gun point at least), a kind of mirror to the actual Oceanic plane crashing down, and the fake one in the ocean. Afterall he was supposed to pilot it and the pilot indeed died.

Earlier mysteries and instances I am referring to are:

The sickness
The Dharma supply drop
Henry Gale
How Yemi's plane made it all the way from Nigeria to the SP
Walt's powers
Death during birth

Then there are little things like who was on the other end of the speaker telling Jack to try the door when he was captive on Hydra Island in season 3? There are tons of these instances where no logical or accountable source can be identified.

[wwe2222]

Also, it seems the kind of logic akin to the story and the Island that he indeed went down with his ship (he was controlling it by gun point at least), a kind of mirror to the actual Oceanic plane crashing down, and the fake one in the ocean. Afterall he was supposed to pilot it and the pilot indeed died.

Earlier mysteries and instances I am referring to are:

The sickness
The Dharma supply drop
Henry Gale
How Yemi's plane made it all the way from Nigeria to the SP
Walt's powers
Death during birth

Then there are little things like who was on the other end of the speaker telling Jack to try the door when he was captive on Hydra Island in season 3? There are tons of these instances where no logical or accountable source can be identified.

Henry Gale? Cmon

DHARMA Supply Drop they will answer but not on the show (which is weird)

The island tends to move according to Ms. Hawking, probably how the plane ended up there.

Walt probably wont be answered due to the actor not really wanting to be on the show anymore and that he's like 7 feet tall now.

The birth thing would be a good thing to have answered

I think they sort of explained the sickness with Sayid and Claire earlier in the season and with the French team flashbacks last year.

[Hanso Amore]

Also, it seems the kind of logic akin to the story and the Island that he indeed went down with his ship (he was controlling it by gun point at least), a kind of mirror to the actual Oceanic plane crashing down, and the fake one in the ocean. Afterall he was supposed to pilot it and the pilot indeed died.

Earlier mysteries and instances I am referring to are:

The sickness
The Dharma supply drop
Henry Gale
How Yemi's plane made it all the way from Nigeria to the SP
Walt's powers
Death during birth

Then there are little things like who was on the other end of the speaker telling Jack to try the door when he was captive on Hydra Island in season 3? There are tons of these instances where no logical or accountable source can be identified.

I think some of these are...


The sickness - Pretty much dure its "the infections of MIB"
The Dharma supply drop - I would like to know this as well. Maybe the others took over all Dharma issues and Widmore kept supplies coming for his peeps?
Henry Gale - Died when brought to the Island by Jacob?
How Yemi's plane made it all the way from Nigeria to the SP - I think this will be ignored - I think they had big plans for Eko that would help with this, but with him gone it will be forgotten
Walt's powers - I want to know this as well
Death during birth - I think we will find this as like a curse from MIBs mother without going into some weird things I have herd

[Jon Kano]

Henry Gale? Cmon

DHARMA Supply Drop they will answer but not on the show (which is weird)

The island tends to move according to Ms. Hawking, probably how the plane ended up there.

Walt probably wont be answered due to the actor not really wanting to be on the show anymore and that he's like 7 feet tall now.

The birth thing would be a good thing to have answered

I think they sort of explained the sickness with Sayid and Claire earlier in the season and with the French team flashbacks last year.

Yeah Henry Gale, what? - was he brought there? What happened with him and Ben and why? ....not that it's related also, but how did Ben get trapped in Rousseu's net? ....small and not to significant things, but to be included in a story that made up to bigger story and plot arcs, it's a bit of a piss take to just have them happen and not explain how.

And yeah, the explained the sickness in terms of Claire/Sayid and the French woman's type sickness, but what about the Dharma version, why there was ever a vaccine to be injected if there never was one? (according to Desmond).

[Jon Kano]

I think some of these are...


The sickness - Pretty much dure its "the infections of MIB"
The Dharma supply drop - I would like to know this as well. Maybe the others took over all Dharma issues and Widmore kept supplies coming for his peeps?
Henry Gale - Died when brought to the Island by Jacob?
How Yemi's plane made it all the way from Nigeria to the SP - I think this will be ignored - I think they had big plans for Eko that would help with this, but with him gone it will be forgotten
Walt's powers - I want to know this as well
Death during birth - I think we will find this as like a curse from MIBs mother without going into some weird things I have herd

If what Elouise said is true, that the Island was always moving, how would anyone know when and where to make a supply drop?

I understand some of the things I put are minimal, but its ok to forget and not bother with them now because there are bigger questions to answer and we are at this late stage, but at the time, it did matter, and for that reason, when I look at everything from a far, it just would be nice/make sense if there could at least be an answer for everything even if it's not completely clear or whatever.

[Jeritron]

There are certain mysteries that will be left, and I think should be left, so that people will continue to talk about it. Mystery is one of the biggest aspects of the show, and although the big questions need closure, I have no problem with some of it remaining.
So far most of the burning questions have been given answers. I think there'll still be some more big answers to come.

I always felt like the sickness was either a mindfuck from Dharma, or their misunderstanding of MIB's ability to claim, as we saw with Roussea's team and Sayid.
Death during birth is another mystery I'm content with being left alone. I always saw that as the island's will. The Island/Jacob or whatever brings certain people to the island, and does away with certain people. It has no need for new life being created on it's watch.

I haven't thought about the Dharma supply drop in a while. That's definitely an unsolved mystery, but I always thought it was a result of the time pocket on the planet. Remember how it took the helicopter back in time by an hour or so before it reached the island? Or how the probe Faraday sent out arrived 15 minutes later or whatever?
Same with the boat captain that had his throat slit, and washed up on shore before it actually happened on the boat.
These things were all signs to me that the Dharma supply drop was probably made at an earlier point in history, when Dharma was still alive and kicking, but didn't reach the island until 2004.

Then there are loosely solved mysteries. The numbers have had various meanings throughout the shows, and until now the last meaning was The Candidates. It's just a number pattern that continually appears in key situations, and either has spiritual meaning or coincidental meaning. Leaving it mysterious and open to discussion really seems the better option.

[thedamndest]

Ben was only supposed to be a character for a few episodes. I don't think that getting caught in the net was meant to be part of what his story became, just the initial story.

[Jeritron]

I don't see Henry Gale as a mystery at all. He was just a guy who came to the island and died. Very similar to Yemmy, or tons of other nameless characters who were there and didn't do much.
As far as how he factors into any master plan, he factored into how Ben's relationship with Jack and co. began, so in that respect he was very important. That's how you would explain him being needed. Other than that he's just another person who got stranded on the island.
What about the dozens of other people on 815? Or all of the random others, and Rosseau's team?
They're all just minor players in the larger story. There needs to be pawns

[Jeritron]

One thing I always wanted a little more backstory on is how the Dharma Initiative got founded.
We know they were there to research things, and funded by Alvar Hanso (who knew about the island through family history/The Black Rock)
But why did he want to go there and research it? How did he know it was special?

It doesn't need an explanation. It's explained enough as it is, but I'd really have liked to know more about that.

[XL]

I'm hoping that next week's episode answers some of these smaller questions. MiB has been on hte island a long time, he could have witnessed a lot of this happening. The sickness for one should get an answer.

[XL]

One thing I always wanted a little more backstory on is how the Dharma Initiative got founded.
We know they were there to research things, and funded by Alvar Hanso (who knew about the island through family history/The Black Rock)
But why did he want to go there and research it? How did he know it was special?

It doesn't need an explanation. It's explained enough as it is, but I'd really have liked to know more about that.
Yeah, this is something I've brought up with friends when discussing what's left to answer.

[Jon Kano]

One thing I always wanted a little more backstory on is how the Dharma Initiative got founded.
We know they were there to research things, and funded by Alvar Hanso (who knew about the island through family history/The Black Rock)
But why did he want to go there and research it? How did he know it was special?

It doesn't need an explanation. It's explained enough as it is, but I'd really have liked to know more about that.

You needed to/go through the LOST experience to get more insight into all that.

[Jon Kano]

I don't see Henry Gale as a mystery at all. He was just a guy who came to the island and died. Very similar to Yemmy, or tons of other nameless characters who were there and didn't do much.
As far as how he factors into any master plan, he factored into how Ben's relationship with Jack and co. began, so in that respect he was very important. That's how you would explain him being needed. Other than that he's just another person who got stranded on the island.
What about the dozens of other people on 815? Or all of the random others, and Rosseau's team?
They're all just minor players in the larger story. There needs to be pawns

Like I said, and fair enough, not big things now or compared to others, but at least we knew where and why the french arrived from.

[Jon Kano]

There are certain mysteries that will be left, and I think should be left, so that people will continue to talk about it. Mystery is one of the biggest aspects of the show, and although the big questions need closure, I have no problem with some of it remaining.
So far most of the burning questions have been given answers. I think there'll still be some more big answers to come.

I always felt like the sickness was either a mindfuck from Dharma, or their misunderstanding of MIB's ability to claim, as we saw with Roussea's team and Sayid.
Death during birth is another mystery I'm content with being left alone. I always saw that as the island's will. The Island/Jacob or whatever brings certain people to the island, and does away with certain people. It has no need for new life being created on it's watch.

I haven't thought about the Dharma supply drop in a while. That's definitely an unsolved mystery, but I always thought it was a result of the time pocket on the planet. Remember how it took the helicopter back in time by an hour or so before it reached the island? Or how the probe Faraday sent out arrived 15 minutes later or whatever?
Same with the boat captain that had his throat slit, and washed up on shore before it actually happened on the boat.
These things were all signs to me that the Dharma supply drop was probably made at an earlier point in history, when Dharma was still alive and kicking, but didn't reach the island until 2004.

Then there are loosely solved mysteries. The numbers have had various meanings throughout the shows, and until now the last meaning was The Candidates. It's just a number pattern that continually appears in key situations, and either has spiritual meaning or coincidental meaning. Leaving it mysterious and open to discussion really seems the better option.


Yinno you are right, and I do actually agree and like the idea of small mysteries remaining. I’m just always split down the middle – wanting to know and finding out, and as well as the awesomeness of knowing and figuring out there are still mysteries to uncover.

I guess it does make sense that The Island wouldn’t want new life created on their if the point of it was to bring those who are products of the outside environment into an areana of good vs will. The only other idea I had was when I was reading about Taweret, the god/statue with above Jacob’s temple – apparently she/it is the goddess of fertility, so maybe it was once an Island of new life, and I simply thought the destruction of the statue would have the reverse affect, I dunno.

Thing is with what you said about the time pocket thing, all of those instances were between the Island, and a short distance offshore, and if the Island was always moving, whenever and wherever the supply drop was sent from, it still made it from god knows where and made it in 2004 like you said.


Another thing I remember – Ben told Michael if he left the Island on a bearing of 205, he would find rescue. I thought you could only get to and from the Island using the bearing 305? Maybe they just screwed up?

[Jeritron]

I've always been curious about the ancient civilization of people on the island. I know that's how Tawaret and The Temple got there, but I've always wondered if the others are a continuation of their order, or if they're just using their temples.

When the characters were time jumping, and they were being attacked by flaming arrows, I'm pretty sure that was the ancient civilization attacking them.
Like Hanso, it's another thing that has all the explanation it really needs, but I'm just curious about.
I wouldn't be suprised if we saw them or got a few tidbits about their culture in next weeks episode. If it's going to happen, that's where it will happen.

[Jon Kano]

I've always been curious about the ancient civilization of people on the island. I know that's how Tawaret and The Temple got there, but I've always wondered if the others are a continuation of their order, or if they're just using their temples.

When the characters were time jumping, and they were being attacked by flaming arrows, I'm pretty sure that was the ancient civilization attacking them.
Like Hanso, it's another thing that has all the explanation it really needs, but I'm just curious about.
I wouldn't be suprised if we saw them or got a few tidbits about their culture in next weeks episode. If it's going to happen, that's where it will happen.

Yeah pretty sure the people who built the statue built the Frozen wheel and its chamber, and the wells and the temple. Wall markings are in all these places of the same kind. Think they will either be the people who were first chosen or who found the island also.

And yeah, I also thought the same with regard to the people who fired the flaming arrows. Lol, just noticed that, The Flame & The Arrow dharma station.

[Jeritron]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7066/lostwr.jpg

Jacob's list for Ben from the finale of Season 2.

[wwe2222]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7066/lostwr.jpg

Jacob's list for Ben from the finale of Season 2.

Jack wasnt supposed to be on the list though according to Pickett in one of the first Season 3 episodes. (Pretty cool though)

Henry Gale: Dont forget he showed up on a balloon from Widmore Industries. In my mind I decided Widmore sent him on some sort of hot air balloon trek as,and, unknowingly to Mr. Gale, a way to find the Island.

Yes the Island moves, but dont forget DHARMA used the Lamp Post station to track the island and where it would show up.

Going by Richard's episode, I took the Others to have started with Richard. Jacob mentioned all the other people brought to the Island had died (that does leave open the possiblity Richard joined up with the people who were born on the Island though)

[Hanso Amore]

This WWE2222 post is fucking dead on

[wwe2222]

Yeah pretty sure the people who built the statue built the Frozen wheel and its chamber, and the wells and the temple. Wall markings are in all these places of the same kind. Think they will either be the people who were first chosen or who found the island also.

And yeah, I also thought the same with regard to the people who fired the flaming arrows. Lol, just noticed that, The Flame & The Arrow dharma station.

I think the flaming arrows were Widmore and his people, didnt he hear Sawyer say everyone meet at the creek?

[Jeritron]

Whoever fired those arrows is responsible for the death of Frogurt. I wouldn't want that kind of blood on my hands

[wwe2222]

Probably haunted by Frogurt popping up out of the jungle every other day for 50 something years.

[Jeritron]

http://susansternberg.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/neil-frogurt.jpg
R.I.P.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I just hope next weeks episode actually sort of explains what the smoke monster is, how it came to be and all that and don't just have somebody say something like "you will now be cursed with this monster living inside of you" or something.

Like in a similar fashion to how Jacob said he could make Richard ageless without actually explaining HOW he could do that.

[wwe2222]

He did it by touching his shoulder. How much more can you get into it? Im sure they will reveal why he has the power to do that, but what else can you really say about how he does it.

[Ermaximus]

Just asking, but what's Jacob's last name on this show? Has this even been adressed?

[wwe2222]

Nope, it has not.

Also, there are 2 sneak peaks up at abc.com

[Ermaximus]

Nope, it has not.

Also, there are 2 sneak peaks up at abc.com

I'm just curious because if Jacob's last name begins with a C, then you will have JC so you could in turn make the assumption that Jacob was in fact.... We'll just leave it at that.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Jacobs Crackers

[Loose Cannon]

I am getting the feeling Frank escaped the sub.

Also, I can't wait for a Vincent apperance

[Loose Cannon]

also, the next episode is going to be awesome. more history behind MIB

I read a few of the previews on the next episode and it looks to make a bunch of biblical references (i.e. The Book of Genesis)

Not really a spoiler, but I wasn't sure if some of you want to know nothing going in

[wwe2222]

I am getting the feeling Frank escaped the sub.

Also, I can't wait for a Vincent apperance

We can only hope so. Frank just seems like a cool dude to hang with.

[Ermaximus]

If Frank is really dead, then who the hell else can fly the plane?

[Jon Kano]

Seth Norris aka Greg Grunberg aka Matthew Parkman of Heroes aka the pilot of the first plane aka the guy the MIB killed in the first episode.

[Ermaximus]

Seth Norris aka Greg Grunberg aka Matthew Parkman of Heroes aka the pilot of the first plane aka the guy the MIB killed in the first episode.

He's dead so how can a dead guy fly the plane? If that's the case just have Frank fly the plane anyways.

[Loose Cannon]

MY 2ND choice would be Sayid cause he can pretty much figure it out based on his backround. But he's dead now.

Locke is dead right now too and he would be my 3rd choice.

Then I'd go to Jack, but he can't leave the island.

yea, they are fucked.

[Jon Kano]

He's dead so how can a dead guy fly the plane? If that's the case just have Frank fly the plane anyways.

IT was a joke, I didn't actually seriously suggest him. Although I bet MIB wishes he hadn't killed him straight away.

I don't even think they will get to use the plane or have it as a serious way of leaving/finishing the story.

[Jeritron]

I just hope next weeks episode actually sort of explains what the smoke monster is, how it came to be and all that and don't just have somebody say something like "you will now be cursed with this monster living inside of you" or something.

Like in a similar fashion to how Jacob said he could make Richard ageless without actually explaining HOW he could do that.

I don't really get how this is possible. It's paranormal stuff. How would it be explained?
As long as they explain how he came to get those abilities, I could care less how those abilities work.

[Lock Jaw]

Alternate Universe Locke will fly the plane.




Then crash.

[Jeritron]

Are we even sure MIB wants to leave the island still? I'm assuming he still does, and just wanted them all dead so he could.

[Jon Kano]

He has said he wants to leave when he is in his true form, and to Jacob, where he would be at his most 'revealing', so I guess it is his overall plan still, although how I am unsure. I wonder why he doesn't just turn the wheel?

[Jon Kano]

I don't really get how this is possible. It's paranormal stuff. How would it be explained?
As long as they explain how he came to get those abilities, I could care less how those abilities work.

It is paranormal stuff but it would be good to see the source or find out where exactly they intend to base the whole mythology from. I get that its all a combination of supernatural, paranormal, metaphysical, science, religion etc but yeah, some kind of source of origin of such a power/place/purpose would be good.

[Hanso Amore]

Alternate Universe Locke will fly the plane.




Then crash.

This is totally going to happen. Not he crash. But like Alt Lockes redemption to his father

[Ermaximus]

I think Hanso hit the nail on the head there. Alternate Locke will see current Locke and kill him then fly away with whoever's left alive. I'm guessing Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Claire, and Ben. Everyone else will die I think.

[Lock Jaw]

Ben is totally gonna die.

Probably saving everybody in a last minute full-fledged face turn.

[Loose Cannon]

I think Hanso hit the nail on the head there. Alternate Locke will see current Locke and kill him then fly away with whoever's left alive. I'm guessing Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Claire, and Ben. Everyone else will die I think.

I kind of really want a final scene where you get this and then as they are flying away we see every single major cast member who has died looking up at them and smiling as they fly away. I hope everyone gets that last send off.

[Loose Cannon]

I kind of just want everyone back for that last episode.

[Jon Kano]

Hope you lot are not serious. That is a TERRIBLE possibility. Alt Locke killing MIB and flying everyone back home, jesus lol.

[Jeritron]

lol

[Loose Cannon]

you would absolutely love this

[Loose Cannon]

I read Walt and Mr Eko want back in. I say write them into the finale somehow

[Jon Kano]

Lindelof tweeted the other day post-production on the finale was complete.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

My money is on Jacob being Alan Parrish and MiB being Van Pelt. This is all just Walts imagination running wild while playing Jumanji. You heard it here first.

[Lock Jaw]

Hope you lot are not serious. That is a TERRIBLE possibility. Alt Locke killing MIB and flying everyone back home, jesus lol.

He flies them home on his back.

[Loose Cannon]

lol amazing. All because Jack healed Locke's spine. book it

[Ermaximus]

Actually Kano, I could see Desmond being the one to end it all. That or MIB gets everyone killed off but Jack and the series ends with Jack and MIB sitting on the beach starting everything all over again.

[wwe2222]

Actually Kano, I could see Desmond being the one to end it all. That or MIB gets everyone killed off but Jack and the series ends with Jack and MIB sitting on the beach starting everything all over again.

Jack and Sawyer as the new Jacob and MiB. They have set Sawyer up perfectly for this....

1) Sawyer crashes onto the island along with 815ers
2) His raft explodes
3) His helicopter is leaking fuel and he has to jump off
4) His plan to get people off the island results in killing Sayid, Jin, Sun, and Frank
5) When he finally found a home on the island (in DHARMA), Juliet ends up dying and he gets transported to 2007.

I think more than almost anyone, the Island has been pretty shitty to Sawyer, no matter how hard he tries.

On top of it, his biggest advesary throughout the whole show Jack, is now trying to keep him from leaving the island.

It would be pretty awesome to see Locke fly everyone home on his back like that dog from Neverending Tale

[Jon Kano]

But at more than one point Sawyer didn't care or he wanted to stay.

He got on the raft because he supposedly wanted to either be a hero or die, and he said himself he is no hero. Yet from Season 4 onwards he has grown and proven time and time again he is a hero.

He only really wants to leave because of Juliet and the pain he feels. I'm sure if he knew and realised as much as Jack and Locke did, he would stay.

[Jon Kano]

Actually Kano, I could see Desmond being the one to end it all. That or MIB gets everyone killed off but Jack and the series ends with Jack and MIB sitting on the beach starting everything all over again.

Probably won't find it in this thread, but surely another, but ever since Flashes Before Your Eyes, season 3, I have said and always thought Desmond was/is the key to solving and finishing the story/task. But then everyone has their part and significance to the story.

[Ogen]

I think the flaming arrows were Widmore and his people, didnt he hear Sawyer say everyone meet at the creek?

If he can launch mortar strikes at them whys he wasting time with arrows

[Ogen]

So who exactly is MIB allowed to kill and not kill, is it just candidates he isn't allowed kill or what?

[Jon Kano]

If he can launch mortar strikes at them whys he wasting time with arrows

He means in the 50's when Widmore was there with Elouise and Richard. Still they had guns then so I doubt it.

And I think he shouted to meet at the creek at a different point but I could be wrong.

[Jon Kano]

So who exactly is MIB allowed to kill and not kill, is it just candidates he isn't allowed kill or what?

It seems as though he cannot kill them by himself alone, rather through means of deception and courses of coincidence and choices of those people.

But then he is now on a war path intend on finishing what he started, so I don't know how he is going to go about that.

I think he has already broken the rules anyway.

[Jeritron]

He means in the 50's when Widmore was there with Elouise and Richard. Still they had guns then so I doubt it.

And I think he shouted to meet at the creek at a different point but I could be wrong.

According to Lostpedia, the arrow attack happend in 1954. I was always under the impression that it was ancient times, and the arrows were coming from the civilization.
I guess it was The Others though, if that information is correct. 1954 was the time period with Jughead.

[Jon Kano]

Still, we know there was an ancient group of people.

Fuckin idiots using flaming arrows if they had guns. The Others were prob on a budget.

[Ogen]

It seems as though he cannot kill them by himself alone, rather through means of deception and courses of coincidence and choices of those people.

But then he is now on a war path intend on finishing what he started, so I don't know how he is going to go about that.

I think he has already broken the rules anyway.

Surely hes killed loads of people on his own in his smokey form?

[Ogen]

Or do you mean he can't kill candidates alone?

[Jon Kano]

Yeah he can't flat out murder of kill a candidate of his own power and being. He has to rather trick them, put them in a situation where people's true fears, faiths and nature come to surface, and because he believes every man's very nature is to sin and corrupt, he bases his plans and methods of elimination on the people to make it actually happen. Or he manipulates them in the form of people they know who have died, as we are fully aware of. The bastard.

And yeah, he's killed tons of people in his true form.

[Ermaximus]

Yeah he can't flat out murder of kill a candidate of his own power and being. He has to rather trick them, put them in a situation where people's true fears, faiths and nature come to surface, and because he believes every man's very nature is to sin and corrupt, he bases his plans and methods of elimination on the people to make it actually happen. Or he manipulates them in the form of people they know who have died, as we are fully aware of. The bastard.

And yeah, he's killed tons of people in his true form.

Mr. Eko :'(

[Jon Kano]

Mr. Eko :'(

Yep :'(

He died with honour, integrity, courage and a really cool inscribed Jesus stick.

[Blitz]

If this doesn't end with Jack as the new Jacob I will be very surprised.

[Jon Kano]

I know I'm owed a fiver (British slang for five English pounds) from a mate who only watched season one where he met Locke's character was gonna turn out to be a creepy pervert who would commit at least one rape on the show.