NFL 2005 Season Thread

[AlphaBean]

The "who beat whom" argument never holds water, you know that.

[Joey Slugs]

Bears over Panthers. Book It.

GO BEARS!

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Looking pretty good for it at the moment. Vasher's turning it on.

Charlie Frye is in for the Browns :wtf: Winning tho so I guess it's as good a time as any. Droughns has put up 100 in the first half :|

[Kris P Lettus]

Touchdown Saints

14-7 going into the half..

[RP]

CATO JUNE IS THE GREATEST LINEBACKER OF ALL TIME!

[RP]

I dunno how Jerry Porter hung onto that ball after that hit, but WOW!

[DaveWadding]

God, I hate the Rams :'(

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Damn, Chicago did it too :eek:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

8 sacks and 2 INTs for the Chicago D

[Mr. Monday Morning]

lol whoopsie daisy Vick

[DaveWadding]

Have a nice time running away with the West, Miz :wavesad:

[Joey Slugs]

God, our D is fucking sick. Chris Simms? You're up.

[RP]

The Bears are for real, but if they cant pass the ball they wont go far.

[RP]

THATA BOY REGGIE!

:lol: at Reggie Wayne pointing back after he split there tackles.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

rofl marriage proposal, good one

[Mr. Monday Morning]

He's probably fucked that cheerleader already

[RP]

We have a fuggin ball game here. I like it.

[DaveWadding]

Beautiful tackle by Bob Sanders on Chad Johnson.

[Joey Slugs]

The Bears are for real, but if they cant pass the ball they wont go far.

The Ravens had no offense a few years back and they won a Super Bowl.

[DaveWadding]

LOL Good one Slugs, change your avatar when your team is winning the most pitiful division in football :y:

[RP]

Beautiful tackle by Bob Sanders on Chad Johnson.

:lol:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Steelers could be in serious trouble on the season :$

[RP]

We got a shootout.

[OssMan]

giantssss

[Mr. Monday Morning]

To clarify that I mean it's arguable if they can beat the Colts and then the game against the Bengals is now bigger than it probably should've been.

[Joey Slugs]

LOL Good one Slugs, change your avatar when your team is winning the most pitiful division in football :y:

Has nothing to do with that. I had my Notre Dame avatar up and the White Sox made the playoffs, so I changed it. From there I had my Italian/Chicago flag with the "Lie Cheat Steal" quote. Doesn't matter if they were in first or in last, my plan was to finally get a Bears pic up there.

BTW, the Bears being 7-3 has nothing to do with have good or bad the division is. They have only played 3 divison games so far this year. So why does the total division record effect the Bears in any way?

[Joey Slugs]

The Colts are fucking machine-like. Bengals have no chance.

[Joey Slugs]

the over for the colts/bengals game was 47 1/2.

they are already @ 45. fuck me for not betting this week.

[RP]

Our run defense is horrible. The Bengals are gunna score too fast here and let us back on the field before half

[Gonzo]

GaGaGaGa G Men.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Giants :love:

Was really fucking worried there for a bit....that Plax TD was a true markout moment.

Tough game next week vs. Seattle

Also, I'm pissed that they aren't showing the Colts/Bengals here. Fucking gay Jets</font> :(

[RoXer]

I don't get the Cards. Lets just call it quits and get a good draft pick.

[Joey Slugs]

RIP Steve Belichick (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/NE/9053815)

[Rain Man]

Jaguars Won!

[OssMan]

Jaguars Won!e-a-g-l-e-s

[Gonzo]

Unwavering support eh Rain Man?

[Rain Man]

Unwavering support eh Rain Man?
You see Penn State got a BCS bid?:yes:

[Rain Man]

Unwavering support eh Rain Man?
You see Penn State got a BCS bid?:yes:

[el fregadero]

Fred Taylor 6 carries -8 yards

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

PATSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Colts vs Bengals was a sick game though. Chad Johnson was right even though they lost, atleast from what I saw they could not cover him.

[Excellance of Execution]

While watching my team (bills) getting their asses handed to them, i noticed something else that has been really annoying lately, INSTANT REPLAY!! I think it is so gay that some play's can't be challenged. If a play is called dead on the field or if a player is ruled down it can't be challenged. That is so stupid. I understand the NFL want's to protect their ref's, but in a fast paced sport with bang-bang play's, i don't understand why all play's aren't subject to being challenged. What difference does it make? It won't make the games any longer. I'm fine with a team only having a certain number of challenges, but they should be able to use them on WHATEVER play they want. I think that some play's that aren't overturned can swing the momentum unfairly to the other team. Why is it so hard to just make the right call?

[RP]

Colts couldnt do much at all on defense let alone stop Chad Johnson who torched us. Not surprising. The Bengals are a great offensive team and they wanted it to be a shoot out. So they played the run tough and made Peyton Manning beat them. Which he did. There back up plan was to answer every score. They didnt.

Pittsburgh vs Indy next monday night will be good. I'm sure they will run the ball 40 times after watching this games film.

[RP]

Oh yah. The best players on the field in tonights game was the Bengals offensive line. THey dominated the Colts defensive line. It was 2sicc

[el fregadero]

I'm sure they would have done that anyway.

[Skippord]

IAN GOLD IS THE GREATEST LINEBACKER OF ALL TIME!

;)

[RP]

How many defensive td's does Ian Gold have this year?;)

[Skippord]

Not much, Al Wilson is the best though

The Jets have like no quarterbacks

[OssMan]

CATO JUNE IS THE GREATEST LINEBACKER OF ALL TIME!http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos10/Taylor,Lawrence21.jpg

[AlphaBean]

Yeah those Giants... unstoppable.

[AlphaBean]

But I swear to God, the football pool at work tomorrow will be like a war zone. ROFLMFAO at the Steelers and Panthers. :love:

[AlphaBean]

Redskins and Rams :love:

[RoXer]

I lost money on the Panthers game. I was sure it was a lock.

[AlphaBean]

Pretty sure everyone and their mother figured that game was a lock.

Though it wasn't as definite as the Giants/Vikings game.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Wow, the Colts are amazing. I cannot believe how good their offense is. That game was insane. I got cited by an undercover cop for underage possesion and now I have to go to court but I DONT CARE. WOW

[RP]

posession of what?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

coca cola

[CNM]

Wow the Jets are awful. Super Bowl, here we come

[Nervous Ferret]

wtf Bollinger goes down

I think Cliff Kingsbury may be starting next weekend

[Nervous Ferret]

Also who is Cliff Kingsbury

[Skippord]

Kid out of Texas Tech

[CNM]

LOL he went from not being good enough to be on the Broncos practice squad to the Jets starting QB

[RP]

Can someone tell me why the Jets havent gotten in contact with Jeff George please?

[Joey Slugs]

Can someone tell me why the Jets havent gotten in contact with Jeff George please?

How about O'Donnell, Nagle, O'Brien, Robinson, or Todd? What are they doing these days?

[RP]

How about O'Donnell, Nagle, O'Brien, Robinson, or Todd? What are they doing these days?

Who cares. George is a better QB then all of them.

[Nervous Ferret]

You forgot Namath. He's still alive

[Nervous Ferret]

and he wants to kiss you :kiss:

[VonErich Lives]

The "who beat whom" argument never holds water, you know that.

Did today.

and yeah, even without that I didn't think Cincy would beat Indy, but I admit I was very impressed.

Palmer has really grown and that team looks really good... maybe even 2nd best in the AFC right now (in my opinion).

[VonErich Lives]

LOL Good one Slugs, change your avatar when your team is winning the most pitiful division in football :y:

The Bears are in the NFC West?

[RP]

Denver is second best in the AFC. Even if you throw out the schedules.

[RP]

That TD celebration by # 85 was weak BTW.

[RP]

http://www.colts.com/images/news_photos/gameday_dump/653F9863.jpg

[RP]

http://www.colts.com/images/news_photos/59_june/2005_1017_stl_422_machta.jpg

[RP]

http://www.colts.com/images/news_photos/59_june/2005_0911_bal_407_macht_a.jpg

[Mr. Monday Morning]

*Kliff Kingsbury

Brooks Bollinger, the champagne of quarterbacks :(

[Gonzo]

The Bears are in the NFC West?

Yeah I was going to say something when I read his comment but left it alone. The NFC West is equally as terrible as the NFC North.

[Gonzo]

Which is why I wonder how good the Seahawks actually are. I think they have like 4 or 5 division games already that they won. So 5 wins of their record are against weaker division opponents. Of course, I'm thinking the same thing about the Giants because the NFC West is one of the divisions they play this year. They already played the Cards, Rams and 9ers and won. They did pull out a W against Denver, who is a great team. I don't know kind of waiting for a real test.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

That TD celebration by # 85 was weak BTW.
That's a lie and you know it.

[VonErich Lives]

Denver is second best in the AFC. Even if you throw out the schedules.

Denver may have the 2nd best record, I don't see them as the 2nd best team.

Right now, I'd take Cincy over Denver.

Also, I'm becoming more of a Chad Johnson fan.

Bob Ryan was asked why CJ does most the things TO does, but doesn't get the same crap. Ryan said "because Chad is genuinely funny, it's like 4 guys tell the same joke, but you only laugh at one of them".

[RP]

If Denver faced teh Bengals in the playoffs, this is what would happen.

Denver would run the ball atleast 40 times because the Bengals cant stop the run. Denver would stop the run and force the Bengals to throw all day because they are one of the best run stopping teams in the NFL. Denver's DB's would come up with atleast a couple turnovers and ultimatley the Broncos would win by 10 points. IMO ofcourse.

Bengals dont want the Broncos at all. Atleast if they play us in the playoffs, they have a shot at winning a shootout. SuperSlim shot, but a shot none the less. If they play the Broncos in Denver. Plummer probably wont throw the ball more then 10 times. Its gunna be all running all day.

[RP]

That's a lie and you know it.

Compared to his others, I thought it was weak. But i'm failry sure i heard that cheerleader say she wanted to suck his dick right there on the field. I mean it looked like it. I can imagine Johnson probably fucked her after the game.

[CNM]

Bullshit. Cincy is better than Denver based on what? The fact that the Broncos own the Pats? Cincy hasn't beaten anyone of note other than the Bears. Yes they were impressive yesterday, but the bottomline is they lost. The Broncos are the clear cut #2 team in the AFC.

[Crimson]

The Broncos will choke in the playoffs and get blown out by Indy for the 3rd straight year.

[VonErich Lives]

Bullshit. Cincy is better than Denver based on what? The fact that the Broncos own the Pats? Cincy hasn't beaten anyone of note other than the Bears. Yes they were impressive yesterday, but the bottomline is they lost. The Broncos are the clear cut #2 team in the AFC.

Did you mean to say Denver is better then Cincy because The fact that the Broncos own the Pats?

Cause otherwise I'm not sure how the Broncos beating the Pats make Cincy better then Denver...

As for owning? 8points at home? wouldn't call that owning, but thats just me.

Anyway, I think Cincy has a better team. Both teams have great lines, solid running games and good passing games. Cincy is better at defending the Pass, Denver is better at stoping the run.

I just think right now Cincy is a better team, not by much I'll give you that and who knows the way things shake out the rest of the season my opinion could change.

I just don't see The Broncos are the clear cut #2 team in the AFC.

But of course you're entitled to you're opinion and we'll know when the seasons over.

[RP]

I wouldnt base it on the Pats victory they had. Tho that was a good victory none the less. I base it on ..

1) How good they are running the ball. #1 in the league i believe.

2) There defesenive front 7 is arguably the best in the league. Second to maybe the Bears, but not by a whole lot

3) They've played the best division in the NFC and the toughest division from top to bottom in the AFC.

Then Bengals have played 3 winning teams. Only beating one of them and that team is arguably the worst of the teams with a winning record.

Again this is my opinion, but its pretty obvious to me that the Broncos are the second best team in the league right now.

[OssMan]

Madden Curse

[AlphaBean]

Judging from what happened to Birk when he tried playing through the pain... plus the Owens nightmare? I think this is a combination of the Madden curse (prorated from when Ray Lewis beat the curse), and the Superbowl loser's curse.... Unfortunately, McNabb and Culpepper's careers are both in jeopardy, who will Rush Limbaugh hate on now? Nobody likes Vick, and Leftwich is average at best.


I guess we gotta wait till Marcus and Vince come into the NFL next season.

[RP]

Madden Curse

Without a doubt. I believe in the Madden curse. If Peyton Manning or Dwight Freeney are on the Madden cover next year i'll have a brain anyurism.

[RP]

Mike Ditka just had a brilliant jab at Michael Irvin on there Open Mic segment. Irvin is going on and on doing his loud crazy talk about how McNabb is playing horrible not because of T.O , which i agree, but Ditka waits til he's done then leans into the desk and goes " Mike, loud doesnt mean right "

I loved it.

[VonErich Lives]

I wouldnt base it on the Pats victory they had. Tho that was a good victory none the less. I base it on ..

1) How good they are running the ball. #1 in the league i believe.

2) There defesenive front 7 is arguably the best in the league. Second to maybe the Bears, but not by a whole lot

3) They've played the best division in the NFC and the toughest division from top to bottom in the AFC.

Then Bengals have played 3 winning teams. Only beating one of them and that team is arguably the worst of the teams with a winning record.

Again this is my opinion, but its pretty obvious to me that the Broncos are the second best team in the league right now.

I just want to make sure you did see it was someone else I had quoted and responded to... just making sure.

Anyway, the Phins beat the Broncos week #1... So, anything is possible.

It's close, I just think Cincy is the better team right now...

[RP]

I just want to make sure you did see it was someone else I had quoted and responded to... just making sure.

Anyway, the Phins beat the Broncos week #1... So, anything is possible.

It's close, I just think Cincy is the better team right now...

Are you saying i'm not aloud to respond to your arguments unless i'm responded to first? :wtf:

[VonErich Lives]

Are you saying i'm not aloud to respond to your arguments unless i'm responded to first? :wtf:

never mind... :roll:

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I dunno, I mean Denever is really good, but Indy took a nice healthy shit on their defense in the playoffs and Cincy is basically the same kind of team so who knows?

[AlphaBean]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[RP]

Heres a concept thats pretty simple. Brad Johnson has a decent arm so how bout this for a play call. Hey Troy Williamson , do what we got you for. Go Deep.

Jesus. Vikings make the Bears look like a high powered offensive machine.

[AlphaBean]

Brad Johnson can't throw for shit. His passes wobble and bloop. They're in the air long enough Grady Jackson could chase them down. Anything over 5 yards he has to lob through the air. He's horrible.

Anyone can succeed with the dink and dunk, and in the first half, Brad couldn't even do THAT. His passes were all so low that they were all being swatted, and he takes so long to make reads that he gets nailed... :nono:. The secret to the win, again, was Mewelde Moore. :love: God I love him. Next jersey I get -- MeMo. :love: Not a feature back? FUCK WHOEVER SAYS THAT.

Speaking of which... I want to apologize to Byron Leftwich for doubting him, by saying he's not a superstar. In saying that, I did not mean to say he was bad -- I meant that he is more of a Tom Brady, or dare I say John Elway. I fell in love with him when I read about his game marching his team down the field with a broken leg, having his O-Linemen carry him. That was just the most amazing thing I've ever read. He's a soldier, and he can bring it. That being said, he will never throw for 50 TDs in a season or be on the cover of Madden, but he will get victories, because he is that solid. Remember -- Vick being a superstar is not a good thing, because Michael Vick is horrible.


Though not as horrible as Brad Johnson. And I am getting nauseous with all the love BRad is getting from people. Like the team is that much better because Brad is throwing dump passes and his line is providing run protection, and Tice has FINALLY given up on Bennett? Hmm?

FUN FACT: Brad Johnson outrushed Bennett today.

BEAN'S FAVORITE STAT:

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=oddrow align=middle><TD class=bi align=left>Possession</TD><TD>MN- 37:33</TD><TD>GB- 22:27
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That 8:30 drive, 13 plays, culminating in a Fason TD? Breathtaking.

[el fregadero]

I accept on behalf of Byron.

[RP]

WHY DOESNT JEFF GEORGE HAVE A JOB!

[RP]

NM. Jeff George is on the Chicago Bears. Wow . Imagine if they put him in there to throw to Muhammed.

[Skippord]

NM. Jeff George is on the Chicago Bears. Wow . Imagine if they put him in there to throw to The other team.

[AlphaBean]

I accept on behalf of Byron.

Might I also add that I think less of Byron, not because he is worse or anything, but because since he was drafted, he is not a human highlight reel. I do not get Jags games, and he is still on his learning curve.

Though Byron to MATT JONES (what) MATT JONES is going to be one of the greatest QB-WR combos of all time. For this reason, I might consider using the Jags next season for Madden. Though the Redskins and Cowboys have good bases. And Dallas has drafted so well that I don't see an alternative other than to make Marion Barber III the greatest Madden HB of all time. :love:

[el fregadero]

Matt Jones is gonna be sick, but Ernest Wilford is the real deal.

[RP]

you need a girlfriend.

[el fregadero]

You talking to me or Bean?

[RP]

Bean

[AlphaBean]

A girlfriend can't make me as happy as Mewelde Moore can. :love:

But yeah Wilford is a beast. He's the Stephen Davis of receivers. Why don't they triple cover him in the red zone? Seriously.

[el fregadero]

I'm sure Roy Williams could cover him.

[AlphaBean]

Darren Sharper could get two interceptions on the same play against Wilford.

[el fregadero]

And return them a total of 216 yards for two TDs.

[AlphaBean]

At least.

[BCWWF]

Did you notice how after the game they still picked out Favre's best plays to congratulate him on, and then they found the worst Vikings plays.

[el fregadero]

I remember them showing Favre's pass getting picked off and returned for a touchdown.

[AlphaBean]

I think what BCWWF was trying to say was that Favre was forced to pass, with only one viable receiver on his roster, and still did a pretty good job shredding us, while on the other hand, Brad Johnson barely kept us in the game despite Mewelde destroying the Packers D.

[BCWWF]

Lol, I don't know why you are so hard on Brad Johnson. He is a backup quarterback, he was never supposed to be Peyton Manning. :roll:

[AlphaBean]

Have you not heard all of the people who said Daunte should have been benched by the second game of the season? Then without seeing him play, said he's a far better QB? Then despite losing fumbles and throwing picks DESPITE NEVER THROWING OVER 5 YARDS! they say he's better than Pep? Because Pep was forced to make plays, when Brad isn't?

If Pep had Brad's workload, Pep wouldn't have obliterated his knee. So I am very pissed off when people try to compare the two. Koren Robinson would be just as good, if not better at QB than Brad. 1: He's mobile, Brad is not. 2: I can lob it 5 yards to Jermaine Wiggins 10 times a game.

I hate Minnesota fans. No matter who the backup is, as long as he's white, the majority of MN fans will call for him to start.

[BCWWF]

If you hate Minnesota fans never go to St. Louis.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img9055481.jpg
haha check out Boller's face

and anyone that says Brad Johnson should start over Daunte Culpepper should not be allowed to watch football anymore.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Brad Johnson has a tough time throwing deep balls with that Super Bowl ring weighing his hand down.

[VonErich Lives]

I dunno, I mean Denever is really good, but Indy took a nice healthy shit on their defense in the playoffs and Cincy is basically the same kind of team so who knows?

Denver has a better DL this year.

[VonErich Lives]

So Bean, if the Vikes find a way into the playoffs do you get stuck with Tice again next year?

[Gonzo]

The Vikings won't make the playoffs.

Tice ought to be fired.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Tice will be fired for anything less than a superbowl appearance

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Denver has a better D this year.

Fixed

[Gonzo]

If I was calling the shots in Minny and my players were on cruise boats fucking anything with a pulse I would most certainly fire my head coach. Tice, from my perspective, has no control over that team if they're doing shit like that. I mean, you can try to state reasons why Tice should stay, but I think he is done in Minnesota. He should be if anyone had any sense.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Brad Johnson has a tough time throwing deep balls with that Super Bowl ring weighing his hand down.That must be why Trent Differ got taken out for 3 series on Sunday while a rookie QB got a shot to play. His hand is probably tired from the weight of the ring.

[RP]

Denver has a better DL this year.

Indy has taken a nice health shit on that DL too.

[VonErich Lives]

Indy has taken a nice health shit on that DL too.

The only time Indy played Denver this year was pre-season, and Indy lost... So, how did Indy do anything to Denver?

[VonErich Lives]

Fixed

Umm, No.

DL = Defensive Line.

Stick to kickball. :p

[RP]

The only time Indy played Denver this year was pre-season, and Indy lost... So, how did Indy do anything to Denver?

That whole defensive line was the defensive line of the Clevland Browns for the last couple of years. The Colts handled them pretty nicely.

[VonErich Lives]

That whole defensive line was the defensive line of the Clevland Browns for the last couple of years. The Colts handled them pretty nicely.

I thought they got 2 players from Clevland?

I'm not saying Denver will or won't give Indy a tough time, but can't say since they haven't played yet this year.

If we go off last year, then the Colts would have lost to the Pats! (and the Pats would have lost to the Phins & Steelers)

[Gonzo]

I'm pretty sure Denver's DLine consists of 3 former Browns players and one other guy. When they played the Giants they commented on how well their defensive line play has been. Coaching makes a world of difference.

[VonErich Lives]

I'm pretty sure Denver's DLine consists of 3 former Browns players and one other guy. When they played the Giants they commented on how well their defensive line play has been. Coaching makes a world of difference.

yeah, I forgot about Myers.

[AlphaBean]

If you hate Minnesota fans never go to St. Louis.

Oh man! *sells plane tickets* :(

Brad Johnson: Has Superbowl ring, so does Trent Dilfer, so do a lot of unworthy players who had amazing defenses.

Mike Tice: Is actually coaching. He somehow feels free to coach how he wants, he's no longer whining and making excuses to keep his job. He's fed up with things, and cranky because his knee hurts. He's berating his players and somehow finding ways to win. From what I've heard the last week Tice is a whole new coach, and actually at times sounds like his idol, Bill Parcells.

Now, we have to see how the rest of the season pans out, but as far as motivation goes, Tice can do it. He will scare the pants off of anyone, and that's how he made our line so good for so long. How can you NOT respect the man who worked Korey Stringer TO DEATH? That's right, Tice killed one of his players. You don't question that. And Tice needs to remember that attitude. To deactivate your best lineman and replace him with a big fat mess, just to prove a point? That's coaching. Saying "we haven't heard much about Gado before last week, and I hope we won't hear much about him after this week." before the game... come on. I respect that.

I am not on the Johnson bandwagon, but I am warming up to Tice. But last season he cried so much and always blamed his players, it was pathetic. We'll see.

Though one thing I've maintained since the beginning is that Cottrell has the mind to make us succeed, but too many of his plays hinge on the play of rookies and young players who are complete idiots (see: linebackers), who blow coverages and lose games for us. As the team grows together under Cottrell, we will become a force. I don't see the same thing happening with Tice, though. I think the best he can do is abuse his individual players. Mewelde Moore is definitely taking his criticism the right way. Bennett is worthless, but MeMo is turning into a franchise back.

Except for Johnson and how they treated Pep, I am pretty happy with the Vikings organization for the time being. Not because they're winning, but because they have a winning attitude for once.

[VonErich Lives]

Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon?,

All have rings. All had a great defense.

[RP]

Tom Brady

[AlphaBean]

Good job. Now we just need our D to get a little bit better and we might actually succeed... but we'd have to get better than Chicago.

[Gonzo]

I wouldn't say any player is unworthy of winning a ring. Just because you have a crazy good defense doesn't mean the quarterback, or anyone on the team for that matter is unworthy. Thats kind of silly to say.

[OssMan]

Bethel Johnson has a superbowl ring. I don't think he deserves it.

[AlphaBean]

I wouldn't say any player is unworthy of winning a ring. Just because you have a crazy good defense doesn't mean the quarterback, or anyone on the team for that matter is unworthy. Thats kind of silly to say.

...

So you're saying that everyone in the NFL is worthy of a ring. No matter how miniscule their contributions to the team might be. They still deserve it for being in the right place at the right time?

How come Special Teams GOD Larry Izzo has a ring, but Dan Marino doesn't?

[Gonzo]

So because a guy doesn't line up as the starting MLB or doesn't catch 85 balls in a season means he hasn't practiced, studied film, helped the team prepare for each Sunday's game? Just because he isn't listed as #1 on the depth chart at his position means he doesn't deserve a ring? If you're saying that just because a player's contributions to a team isn't a lot, I'd like to know what those players do to not deserve the ring?

The reason Larry Izzo has a ring is because he was part of great Superbowl teams. Do you think his contributions on special teams didn't matter? Just because he doesn't start at linebacker and make 120 tackles a year but makes 25 special teams tackles instead means he doesn't deserve a ring? I don't see what you're getting at with this question other than the fact you think Marino should have a ring while other guys who have one maybe aren't "worthy" of it?

Marino should have won a ring, but no more than any other player that works hard, irregardless of the role they play. Pretty stupid to say that just because a guy doesn't contribute as much as someone else means they aren't deserving of one.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Tom Brady
lol

[Gonzo]

Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon?,

All have rings. All had a great defense.

I still don't agree that just because these QB's had great D's makes them any less of a player. It is the NFL and although I wouldn't know, I'm sure its no easy task to play QB. ;)

Managing the offense is pretty hard, not making mistakes and all that. I'm not saying any of these guys were the most prolific passers to play the game, but they aren't slouches.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

When the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl, Brad Johnson went to the Pro Bowl.

Thank

[VonErich Lives]

Tom Brady

Knew you would say that... I'd give you a bunch of facts why you're wrong, but why bother.

[VonErich Lives]

I still don't agree that just because these QB's had great D's makes them any less of a player. It is the NFL and although I wouldn't know, I'm sure its no easy task to play QB. ;)

Managing the offense is pretty hard, not making mistakes and all that. I'm not saying any of these guys were the most prolific passers to play the game, but they aren't slouches.

I agree 100%, all the QB's listed played good games and had to do things that helped their team win. I was just listing "1 shot wonders" so to speak.

[RP]

Knew you would say that... I'd give you a bunch of facts why you're wrong, but why bother.


Yah, not like i care.:roll:

[VonErich Lives]

Bethel Johnson has a superbowl ring. I don't think he deserves it.

Terry Glenn won one... not sure if they actually gave it to him or he took it, since he was suspended at the time.

[VonErich Lives]

Yah, not like i care.:roll:

Just cause I happened to come accross this yesterday while looking for something else.

It's from january, it's a back in forth between a write from a web-site and write of a news paper.

The short version is, the news paper guy argues that Manning is much better because Brady has never been considered for league MVP, the web-site guy counters that manning would trade his MVP's (I can't recall off hand how many he has? 2?) for one superbowl ring.

I find it interesting, because while I've seen Brady as a good and clutch QB, I didn't realise until earlier this year just how "clutch" he was and where his QB raiting ranked alltime and that he was actually ahead of Manning for a bit.

anyway, here's a link. But I know you hate facts :p

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=144&Category=5

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Umm, No.

DL = Defensive Line.

Stick to kickball. :p

Yeah thanks for the condescending remarks there. Totally necessary.

You seem to forget Ian Gold is back in the linebackers this year, and playing well. And the rookie DBs they drafted are good enough that they cut Lenny Walls.

Stick to arguing with RP, you're vaguely good at that.

[VonErich Lives]

Yeah thanks for the condescending remarks there. Totally necessary.

You seem to forget Ian Gold is back in the linebackers this year, and playing well. And the rookie DBs they drafted are good enough that they cut Lenny Walls.

Stick to arguing with RP, you're vaguely good at that.

Wait, you tried correcting me on what I said and when I give you back a little rib, you get pissy?

I'd say something, but I don't want you going all Emo on me.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Way to address the points I made there.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Owens' suspension has been upheld

[VonErich Lives]

Way to address the points I made there.

Sorry, I was distracted by you being all Emo.

I said something, your corrected me thinking I ment something else, or just prefering your opinion over mine and simply, you were wrong I meant what I said.

So, besies that what point did I miss? I never said they didn't improve their D, plain and simple which doesn't mean they didn't improve their DL, which doesn't mean when I said "they improved their DL" that I didn't mean what I said.

Anything else I can help you with?

[Mr. Monday Morning]

See this is the funny thing about the internet, you can throw around a word like emo and think you're making me cry or something when it just makes you look pretty stupid for getting anywhere near that assumption. All I said was it was pretty unnecessary to resort to a 'rib' as you want to classify it instead of actually addressing what I'd said. It's no wonder you have a rep for resorting to name-calling.

When I said they improved their D you said, and I'll quote here to make sure you understand this part


Umm, No.

In case you forgot, saying no would indicate a disagreement with me saying they improved their D as a whole, and not just the DL, which is what you stated. You can pretend you addressed that but you actually haven't. If you indeed "meant what you said" it also means you specifically think that only their DL has improved - by definition that means you think the rest of the D hasn't improved.

You can also help me with trying to understand how using 5 negative auxiliary verbs in one sentance is meant to be readable.

[RP]

"Clearly, you just don't get it. The whole purpose of pro football is to win a title. That's why they play. They don't play for a warm dinner roll and some gravy. Plus, you've still never explained Manning's Marino-esque 54.6 passer rating in four playoff losses or come up with a reason why Brady has a better passer rating at the same point in his career."

Regular Season :

Brady's passer rating is 88.7
Mannings passer rating is 93.2


"We don't report stats....we report facts. Bottom line: if you can do one thing, please explain to us Manning's 54.6 passer rating in four postseason losses."

Yes well i report facts also. I find it ammuzing that we take a QB who was fortunate to be on a 3 superbowl title winning team. A QB that has never suffered a post season loss and we compare him to a QB who had 5 losses in the playoffs. 4 of them on the road against teams that were flat out better then the Colts. Yet Cold Hard Facts would like to paint Peyton Manning as nothing more then a Choke Artist and Tom Brady as a superior god dressed in a Patriots uniform. Doing this by only giving you the Cold Hard facts that back up there " Cold Hard Facts ".

What VEL and Cold Hard Facts dont give you is career playoff stats. If they did then this is what you would find.

Tom Brady : http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerStats?categoryId=70173&seasonStatus=5

Peyton Manning : http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerStats?categoryId=69814&seasonStatus=5

Tom Brady stats arent exactly better then Peyton Mannings stats in the post season. Infact with these acception of Brady having a 2% more completion percentage and 5 less interceptions. Manning is better then Brady in every other stats. Even down to rushing. His passer rating is even better despite the +5 interceptions he's giving up to Tom Brady.

Clearly if we are arguing who the better QB is. The stats dont lie. Manning surely does not have the glory of being a Superbowl champion ( yet ), but is that because Tom Brady is a better QB? I dont think so. I think its because Tom Brady is a product of a great system instilled in New England.

He is not a better QB. Not in the regular season or the post season. He's just been on the better team. The stats dont lie.

[VonErich Lives]

See this is the funny thing about the internet, you can throw around a word like emo and think you're making me cry or something when it just makes you look pretty stupid for getting anywhere near that assumption. All I said was it was pretty unnecessary to resort to a 'rib' as you want to classify it instead of actually addressing what I'd said. It's no wonder you have a rep for resorting to name-calling.

When I said they improved their D you said, and I'll quote here to make sure you understand this part



In case you forgot, saying no would indicate a disagreement with me saying they improved their D as a whole, and not just the DL, which is what you stated. You can pretend you addressed that but you actually haven't. If you indeed "meant what you said" it also means you specifically think that only their DL has improved - by definition that means you think the rest of the D hasn't improved.

You can also help me with trying to understand how using 5 negative auxiliary verbs in one sentance is meant to be readable.

You quoted something I said, CHANGED IT to make it look like I said something I didn't and then you said "fixed".

I responded "umm, no" meaning, "no" it's not "fixed" what I said was correct.

I can't believe you're still going on about this, and you wonder why I called you Emo. I don't think I'm making you cry, I'm not trying to make you cry, I could care less if you cry, but the simple fact is, you are crying and there was nothing their for me to respond to.

ugh, hopefully you're over this, cause I'm done wasting time with you on it.

Want to discuss football fine, want to cry because I said "stick to kick ball" after you changed my quote to make it look like I said something I didn't and then say "fixed", then talk to someone else.

[VonErich Lives]

RP - not ignoring you're response, just to tired to focus on it and read the stats and want to make sure I read it before I respond.

[VonErich Lives]

"Clearly, you just don't get it. The whole purpose of pro football is to win a title. That's why they play. They don't play for a warm dinner roll and some gravy. Plus, you've still never explained Manning's Marino-esque 54.6 passer rating in four playoff losses or come up with a reason why Brady has a better passer rating at the same point in his career."

Regular Season :

Brady's passer rating is 88.7
Mannings passer rating is 93.2



I got this far, and just wanted your source on the passer ratings.

Reason being, it says "better passer rating at the same point in his career".
meaning if Brady has been in the league 4 years and Manning 6, then you need to look at Mannings passer rating 2yrs ago. "same point in career".

[DrA]

I think its because Tom Brady is a product of a great system instilled in New England.

He is not a better QB. Not in the regular season or the post season. He's just been on the better team. The stats dont lie.

The last time I looked, I didn't see a "system" guide all of those passes to Brady's receivers.

Come on. They were saying the same stuff about Troy Hambrick and "the system" when he replaced Emmit Smith and did well for a couple of games. The fact of the matter is that if you're a good player, you're a good player.

[RP]

My opinion ( Dra ) is that Peyton Manning is a better QB then Tom Brady and my stats back this up. Tom Brady has simply been in a much better situation then Manning the past 5 years.

Arguments are welcome.

[Skippord]

I'm pretty sure Denver's DLine consists of 3 former Browns players and one other guy. When they played the Giants they commented on how well their defensive line play has been. Coaching makes a world of difference.

Trevor Pryce kicks the ass when he is healthy

[AlphaBean]

So because a guy doesn't line up as the starting MLB or doesn't catch 85 balls in a season means he hasn't practiced, studied film, helped the team prepare for each Sunday's game? Just because he isn't listed as #1 on the depth chart at his position means he doesn't deserve a ring? If you're saying that just because a player's contributions to a team isn't a lot, I'd like to know what those players do to not deserve the ring?

The reason Larry Izzo has a ring is because he was part of great Superbowl teams. Do you think his contributions on special teams didn't matter? Just because he doesn't start at linebacker and make 120 tackles a year but makes 25 special teams tackles instead means he doesn't deserve a ring? I don't see what you're getting at with this question other than the fact you think Marino should have a ring while other guys who have one maybe aren't "worthy" of it?

Marino should have won a ring, but no more than any other player that works hard, irregardless of the role they play. Pretty stupid to say that just because a guy doesn't contribute as much as someone else means they aren't deserving of one.

You don't believe your own bullshit, do you? Izzo was a poor example, because he is a Special Teams GOD! And if he was a better player he'd be no doubt starting at linebacker... and if he was faster, he would be a safety. Stronger, he'd be a DL... and if he could punt, well...

But here's the deal: Your mom could help a team study film. A backup safety who doesn't play could be replaced with Pepsi Machine and have the same impact on a team. I know that you know this. There are players on every team who mean nothing to their team, such as QBs beneath the clipboard holder, WRs on kickoff teams and the like. If you can run above a 4.6 40, you can be a special teams player. And while sure, they help the team in some gay, miniscule way... they are riding the coattails of a great team and a great coach. They do not deserve their ring.

[AlphaBean]

When the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl, Brad Johnson went to the Pro Bowl.

Thank

When your defense is amazing, your offensive stats will be so much better. And when your team wins a lot, many players make the Pro Bowl by default. The Cardinals generally only have a kicker or a punter make the pro bowl. The Patriots get like a dozen every year.

There we go.

[DrA]

My opinion ( Dra ) is that Peyton Manning is a better QB then Tom Brady and my stats back this up. Tom Brady has simply been in a much better situation then Manning the past 5 years.

Arguments are welcome.

Peyton Manning has better statistics than Bart Starr, but does that necessarily make him the better quarterback?

I'm not saying that Brady is better than Manning or if Manning is better than Brady, but with statistics you could probably find ways to compare Aaron Brooks and Brett Favre. The last time I checked, football was a team sport, not a contest to see which individual puts up better numbers.

[DrA]

BUT SINCE YOU LIKE STATISTICS SO MUCH

You know what I found out?

During Tom Brady's tenure in New England, they have passed 55% of the time and ran it 45%.

Indianapolis, during Manning's time there, has thrown it 56% of the time.

Denver, when John Elway was there, threw it 52% of the time.

Now what does this mean? Absolutely nothing, really. But you say that Tom Brady is just part of the system, well, it seems to be a system that uses him quite a bit to get the ball around, more so than most other teams. Of course, this disregards how good their defenses were, the score of the games, the health of the quarterback etc. But since you like to be vague with statistics, I can do the same as well.

The truth is that there is no real way to prove which quarterback is better, since it is all in the opinion of the person in question.

[RP]

Listen i can care less , but if VEL wants to post shit like this , i'm gunnna set the record straight. If i dont say anything back, he assumes he's right when he's not.



Just cause I happened to come accross this yesterday while looking for something else.

It's from january, it's a back in forth between a write from a web-site and write of a news paper.

The short version is, the news paper guy argues that Manning is much better because Brady has never been considered for league MVP, the web-site guy counters that manning would trade his MVP's (I can't recall off hand how many he has? 2?) for one superbowl ring.

I find it interesting, because while I've seen Brady as a good and clutch QB, I didn't realise until earlier this year just how "clutch" he was and where his QB raiting ranked alltime and that he was actually ahead of Manning for a bit.

anyway, here's a link. But I know you hate facts :p

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=144&Category=5

[AlphaBean]

Well to be fair to that % of passing plays, the Patriots have only had a running game once since Curtis Martin left, and that was last year. So they're forced to pass short to set up the long pass; so that means that the actual "passing" plays, as opposed to the dump-off plays, are a lot less frequent than in Indy.

That being said, Brady will never have Manning's stats because Brady isn't asked to, and Manning will never have Brady's rings because Manning doesn't have the ungodly gameplans that they had in New England the last 4 years.

But, if the roles were reversed? Especially considering how controlled Manning is playing this year "comparatively," he could lead a Superbowl team, IMO (unless they had an elite defense like the Pats last season), and from what I recall, Brady passed his ass off in 2002 when they missed the playoffs by a game. He had absurd passing stats, but no ring. Makes you think.

[RP]

Change of subject.


I voted on the pro bowl today . These were my votes.

AFC QB's (3 )

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
( i was gunna vote Brees over Brady, but considering the injuries in New England i felt Brady deserved it more. )

NFC QB's ( 3 )

Matt Hassleback
Brett Farve
Eli Manning

AFC RB's ( 3 )

Edge
L.T ( No brainers )
Mike Anderson ( I could have picked Jordan or maybe Larry Johnson, but i think Mike Anderson doesnt get talked about enough so i chose him )

NFC RB's ( 3 )

Shaun Alexander
Tiki Barber
Thomas Jones ( again not going with the obvious on the 3rd pick. I Thomas Jones is a huge part of the Bears contending. )

AFC WR's ( 4 )

Chad Johnson
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Reggie Wayne

NFC WR's ( 4 )

Steve Smith
Plaxico Burress
Larry Fitzgerald
Joey Galloway

AFC FB

Lorenzo Neal


NFC FB

C Cooley

AFC TE's ( 2 )

Heath Miller
Antonia Gates

NFC TE's ( 2 )

J.SHockey
Alge Crumpler

[Gonzo]

I don't know if I would put Eli on that list. I don't really pay attention to any other players #'s so I can't say who should get voted in or not.

[The Miz]

lol Favre?

[The Miz]

My votes

AFC
Manning
Palmer
Plummer

RB
Tomlinson
James
Jordan

WR
C. Johnson
Harrison
Branch
R. Moss

FB
Kreider

TE
Gates
Miller

K
Lindell

P
Lechler

NFC
QB
Manning
Delhomme
Hasselbeck

RB
Alexander
Davis
Barber

WR
Smith
Galloway
Burress
S. Moss

FB
MACK STRONG

TE
Shockey
Witten

K
Rackers

P
Kluwe

I'll do OL/defense later

[AlphaBean]

ROFL the NFC is going to get DESTROYED if that's how it pans out this year. :'(

[The Miz]

Actually nah Hasselbeck is a woman

[AlphaBean]

Though at least we will have an awesome punter.

And Free Safety. :love: Sharper :love:

[RP]

lol Delholme

[RoXer]

I don't like VEL

[RP]

I don't like VEL

But why?

[RoXer]

I dunno. I probly have to provide stats or something. Or he'll quote my post and delete "don't" and he'll say "fixed" and then we'll get into this huge argument over what I actually meant even though it's fucking simple and no big deal.

[RP]

:y:

[VonErich Lives]

Well to be fair to that % of passing plays, the Patriots have only had a running game once since Curtis Martin left, and that was last year.


2001 Antowain Smith 287 1157 4.0
2002 Antowain Smith 252 982 3.9
2003 Antowain Smith 182 642 3.5
2003 Kevin Faulk 178 638 3.6
2003 Combined 360 1280 3.5

I wouldn't say they didn't have a running game those years, especially 2001. You could make a case for 2003, but some of that "split time" came from injuries, so it could be argued if Smith stayed healthy he might have put up close to the combined stats himself.

Although, if I remember correctly, Smith didn't play most of the first half that year, and people felt Belicheck did it on purpose to keep him well rested for the 2nd half and the playoffs. So, in the playoffs when everyone else had gone through 16-17 games, Smith had only played 8.

[VonErich Lives]

Ok, RP... where to begin.

First as I already asked.

"Clearly, you just don't get it. The whole purpose of pro football is to win a title. That's why they play. They don't play for a warm dinner roll and some gravy. Plus, you've still never explained Manning's Marino-esque 54.6 passer rating in four playoff losses or come up with a reason why Brady has a better passer rating at the same point in his career."

Regular Season :

Brady's passer rating is 88.7
Mannings passer rating is 93.2



I got this far, and just wanted your source on the passer ratings.

Reason being, it says "better passer rating at the same point in his career".
meaning if Brady has been in the league 4 years and Manning 6, then you need to look at Mannings passer rating 2yrs ago. "same point in career".


"We don't report stats....we report facts. Bottom line: if you can do one thing, please explain to us Manning's 54.6 passer rating in four postseason losses."

Yes well i report facts also. I find it ammuzing that we take a QB who was fortunate to be on a 3 superbowl title winning team. A QB that has never suffered a post season loss and we compare him to a QB who had 5 losses in the playoffs. 4 of them on the road against teams that were flat out better then the Colts. Yet Cold Hard Facts would like to paint Peyton Manning as nothing more then a Choke Artist and Tom Brady as a superior god dressed in a Patriots uniform. Doing this by only giving you the Cold Hard facts that back up there " Cold Hard Facts ".


Ok, stop right there for a moment, re-read what you wrote. a QB who won 3 superbowls and has never lost a post season game! As for the "4 losses on the road against teams that were flat out better". Last year the Colts had one of if not the best offense in the histroy of the NFL, yet if you look it wasn't the Defense that lost the game, it was the offense and typically it's been the offense (manning) that hasn't done very well in the playoffs.


What VEL and Cold Hard Facts dont give you is career playoff stats. If they did then this is what you would find.

Tom Brady : http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerStats?categoryId=70173&seasonStatus=5

Peyton Manning : http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerStats?categoryId=69814&seasonStatus=5

Tom Brady stats arent exactly better then Peyton Mannings stats in the post season. Infact with these acception of Brady having a 2% more completion percentage and 5 less interceptions. Manning is better then Brady in every other stats. Even down to rushing. His passer rating is even better despite the +5 interceptions he's giving up to Tom Brady.


So, Brady has a better completion % and less interceptions.
But of course that doesn't matter since Manning averged 3.0yds per rush when Brady only got 1.6.

Clearly if we are arguing who the better QB is. The stats dont lie. Manning surely does not have the glory of being a Superbowl champion ( yet ), but is that because Tom Brady is a better QB? I dont think so. I think its because Tom Brady is a product of a great system instilled in New England.

He is not a better QB. Not in the regular season or the post season. He's just been on the better team. The stats dont lie.

Well, you're right on one thing, the stats don't lie and if we went strictly by stats Brady is the better post season QB, weather you want to go by the indivudal stats or the bigger "team stat" which is wins.

I'll give you Manning's stats in the regular season, no question he's a GREAT regular season QB.

Is Brady the "better QB", Physically, Manning is a little taller, stronger, has a quicker release probably... But, then you have Brady, Well, let's refer to that article for a moment.

Fact 4: Brady is one of the great clutch performers in NFL history with the best record in tight games, the best record in overtime, the best record in the post-season, the best record. Period. Oh yeah, the only QB in NFL history to lead two last-second, game-winning scoring drives in championship games. Guess that's not quite as impressive to you as Manning's six TD passes in a regular season game against Detroit.

So, if Manning is the better Physical tool'd QB, what do we call Brady? The smater QB? The calmer under pressure QB?

Here's a few clips from that article.

Fact 3: Brady has the 7th best passer rating in NFL history at 87.5, better than Marino, Favre, Elway and quite a few other hall-of-fame players. (Manning just surpassed Brady this year after his record-setting regular season). Not bad for an "overrated" QB.

Fact 6: You keep citing New England's "brilliant" defense. But 30 of 38 Super Bowl-winning teams had a better defense than New England's 2001 team, which surrendered 17.0 points per game. Eighteen of 38 Super Bowl winners had a better defense than New England's 2003 team (14.9 PPG). Look it up. Better yet, we'll send you the numbers.

Fact 7: All the great multi-championship QBs in NFL history were surrounded by better defenses and/or more highly touted talent than Brady. Dispute this. I dare you.

QB in Super Bowl history has won more with less talent around him than Brady. Montana, Bradshaw, Starr and Brady's other equals in post-season performances played on teams littered with Pro Bowlers and hall of famers. Two-time Super Bowl MVP Starr played with 10 hall of famers and a hall-of-fame coach. Two-time Super Bowl MVP Bradshaw played with eight hall of famers and a hall-of-fame coach. The 1984 49ers (to cite one great Niners team) had 10 Pro Bowlers, a hall-of-fame coach and, as we speak, two hall of famers (but that number will soon grow). Brady has played with just four positional teammates (Seymour, Milloy, Law, McGinest) who even made the Pro Bowl during his four years at the helm in New England. Brady, in other words, certainly looks spectacular by comparison.

On this one, clearly Belicheck will make the HOF, one could argue for Law, McGinest? I'm home-town biased on him, so not sure. Dillon and down the road possible Seymore and/or Branch...

Fact 2: Manning is one of the great choke artists in NFL history (54.6 rating in four playoff losses). You haven't even attempted to explain this.

See, where RP likes to point at the "total playoff stats" he misses where the term "choke artist" comes from, it's clearly not from the wins, it's the losses and more important how one lost. 54.6 in four losses.

[VonErich Lives]

Look, I wasn't trying to get back into the whole Brady/Manning thing, but since RP took a shot, I figured I'd respond with some facts. Unless I'm asked a question, or challenged that something I said wasn't true, I'm not going to respond on that subject cause we've all danced through it 1000 times.

Simply RP, you should just sit back and enjoy this year, you have a great team that on paper and on the field shouldn't get stoped by anyone. running the table should happen, it typically doesn't in the NFL, but wouldn't shock me if the Colts did it, they're that good. When the Defense has an off game the Offense lights it up, when the Offense gets shut down, the defense responds.

Also, I see a "different" Manning this year, it actually started around the end of last year (SD game) he's calmer when things go wrong and when the pressure is on. Could it be the better team around him? a maturing? Been taking "happy pills" dunno, anything is possible.

The only question you need to ask is, what's the cap situation, what contracts are up and who might want more money?

Because breaking up this team, is the only thing (besides injuries) that should keep this Colts team from winning a few championships. (unless of course, Manning chokes again) :p

The big thing that has kept the Pats good is finding cheap talent, a lot of it has been 1yr talent, or players that no one wanted, players other teams wrote off as "all done". Of course, with that you have some "mistakes", but that's the key with this cap, the "fill in" players, or a core that is willing to play for less money, so the team will be better. Otherwise, there will always be a team with cap space that can out bid you.

That being said, as I've said before, I like Manning a lot more then Marino, and would rather not see him be called "the Marino of today" so, hopefully he gets a superbowl win at somepoint.

[VonErich Lives]

Ok, back to the NFL.

Pro Bowl, just did the offense.

AFC
QB
Manning, Palmer, Plummer

RB
Bell
Johnson
James

Yeah, I know I left off Tomlinson, the Stats Johnson has put up without getting all the carries for most the season and Bell's 6.0avg got my vote. Then it came down to Edge or Tomlinson, Edge has more years and a better avg, Tomlinson has more TD's. I went with Edge.

WR
Johnson
Wayne
Branch
Harrison

FB
Pass (homer pick, but the way he's blocked and filled in.) It only lets you pick one, my other choice would be Neal.

TE
Gates
Gonzo

That's always a tough one, because some QB's are used like WR's, others are used a blockers and do a great job.

K
Vinateiri (when he misses in a big game, let me know).

Punter
Miller (maybe a homer pick, first in avg, 4th I20, 4th Netyds).

NFC
QB
Bledsoe
Manning
Favre (1st in yds, 1st in TD's, 8th in QB rating).
I'd have voted Bulger but he's probably out for the year now. Hasselbeck has decent numbers and his teams winning... so a case can be made there.

RB
Alexander
Barber
Dunn

WR
Smith
Moss
Fitzgerald
Galloway

FB
Strong
Should probably vote for Cooley, but I went the the guy who makes the holes for the leading rusher in the NFL.

TE
Crumpler
Smith
(coulde make a case for Shockey, Wiggins or Witten).

K
Rackers (ok, maybe if his team could score he'd get less FG's but the guys on a tare this year.)

P
Feagles
(should be Bidwell, but isn't Feagles like 50? I swear he's been around forever... ok, just looked.. Feagles is 39, been playing for 18yrs...).

[AlphaBean]

2001 Antowain Smith 287 1157 4.0
2002 Antowain Smith 252 982 3.9
2003 Antowain Smith 182 642 3.5
2003 Kevin Faulk 178 638 3.6
2003 Combined 360 1280 3.5

I wouldn't say they didn't have a running game those years, especially 2001. You could make a case for 2003, but some of that "split time" came from injuries, so it could be argued if Smith stayed healthy he might have put up close to the combined stats himself.

Although, if I remember correctly, Smith didn't play most of the first half that year, and people felt Belicheck did it on purpose to keep him well rested for the 2nd half and the playoffs. So, in the playoffs when everyone else had gone through 16-17 games, Smith had only played 8.

You realize I was making a case for Brady, right?

Anyway, 2001 was the first SB year, when Brady just started, so I'll give Antowain that. If he hadn't run effectively, they wouldn't have made it. After that, though, we see the drop-off. All I recall from 2002 was that they took more shots, which meant they did not manage the game correctly and missed the playoffs. The next year, despite the rushing average being down quite a bit, they came back and won the SB. Yet had they attempted to win shootouts (like the Colts do), they would not have succeeded whatsoever. With the short, quick WRs that the Pats have had, it was easy to just throw a quick-hitter and let them get YAC and voila! Running game. It prevents pressure, and it runs out the clock because of the high percentage. Same as a running game...

All I'm saying is, Brady's stats are skewed because of his extensive underneath work. For all intents and purposes he's been asked to manage the game, rather than march down the field and run up the score like Manning. That's a good thing. His stats may not be as mind-boggling as Manning's, but they could be. All it takes if a change in philosophy.

[OssMan]

Ok, back to the NFL.

Pro Bowl, just did the offense.

AFC
QB
Manning, Palmer, Plummer

RB
Bell
Johnson
James

Yeah, I know I left off Tomlinson, the Stats Johnson has put up without getting all the carries for most the season and Bell's 6.0avg got my vote. Then it came down to Edge or Tomlinson, Edge has more years and a better avg, Tomlinson has more TD's. I went with Edge.

WR
Johnson
Wayne
Branch
Harrison

FB
Pass (homer pick, but the way he's blocked and filled in.) It only lets you pick one, my other choice would be Neal.

TE
Gates
Gonzo

That's always a tough one, because some QB's are used like WR's, others are used a blockers and do a great job.

K
Vinateiri (when he misses in a big game, let me know).

Punter
Miller (maybe a homer pick, first in avg, 4th I20, 4th Netyds).

NFC
QB
Bledsoe
Manning
Favre (1st in yds, 1st in TD's, 8th in QB rating).
I'd have voted Bulger but he's probably out for the year now. Hasselbeck has decent numbers and his teams winning... so a case can be made there.

RB
Alexander
Barber
Dunn

WR
Smith
Moss
Fitzgerald
Galloway

FB
Strong
Should probably vote for Cooley, but I went the the guy who makes the holes for the leading rusher in the NFL.

TE
Crumpler
Smith
(coulde make a case for Shockey, Wiggins or Witten).

K
Rackers (ok, maybe if his team could score he'd get less FG's but the guys on a tare this year.)

P
Feagles
(should be Bidwell, but isn't Feagles like 50? I swear he's been around forever... ok, just looked.. Feagles is 39, been playing for 18yrs...).
I'm not trying to be a "homer" here but I am pretty sure that Shockey has been the best TE behind Antonio Gates this yaer. Maybe he doesn't have the BEST numbers, last week he only had one catch/one yard/one TD but he always makes catches for like 20+ yards in the 4th quarter when they matter.

[RP]

Reggie Wayne and Edge are the two big free agents. I dont not wanna lose either , but especially do not wanna lose Reggie Wayne , because Reggie Wayne is the real deal.

Irsay said he has a plan to sign both to long term deals, but i think this plan has something to do with hoping that the league wide salary cap is raised next year to like 96 million ( i think thats the number ).

Also both players could be asking for alot of money. REggie Wayne might wanna be a number 1 reciever, but i cant see why he would ever wanna leave Peyton Manning's side. Peyton Manning can make him a HoF'er. I think/hope they both get resigned. No matter what, one of them will be getting tagged. I doubt its Edge again, because the Colts wont wanna pay him double what he's making now for one year ( It might not be double, but its alot i know that ) . Most likely if they cant get REggie locked up, they'll tag him and get Edge locked up.

Hopefully the salary cap rises tho so neither will be a problem.

[RP]

And one last think on Brady v Manning. System QB was a bad term to use because i know for a fact watching Brady that he is a great QB. My argument in terms of stats was to show that Brady had merly been in a better situation then Manning the past 5 years. Not neccesarily the better QB.

[VonErich Lives]

I'm not trying to be a "homer" here but I am pretty sure that Shockey has been the best TE behind Antonio Gates this yaer. Maybe he doesn't have the BEST numbers, last week he only had one catch/one yard/one TD but he always makes catches for like 20+ yards in the 4th quarter when they matter.

Nope, you don't sound like a hommer.

as I said, I could make a case for him, wiggins or witten.

Pro Bowl is "what have you done for me lately" and it's always usually based on current stats... it's kind a "reward" for a good year, and with everything going on LJ Smith is having a pretty good year, so I picked him, but any of the other 3 wouldn't be a bad choice either.

[VonErich Lives]

Reggie Wayne and Edge are the two big free agents. I dont not wanna lose either , but especially do not wanna lose Reggie Wayne , because Reggie Wayne is the real deal.

Irsay said he has a plan to sign both to long term deals, but i think this plan has something to do with hoping that the league wide salary cap is raised next year to like 96 million ( i think thats the number ).

Also both players could be asking for alot of money. REggie Wayne might wanna be a number 1 reciever, but i cant see why he would ever wanna leave Peyton Manning's side. Peyton Manning can make him a HoF'er. I think/hope they both get resigned. No matter what, one of them will be getting tagged. I doubt its Edge again, because the Colts wont wanna pay him double what he's making now for one year ( It might not be double, but its alot i know that ) . Most likely if they cant get REggie locked up, they'll tag him and get Edge locked up.

Hopefully the salary cap rises tho so neither will be a problem.

Will Manning renegotiate? Doesn't he take up like 25% of the cap?

Also, when do some of your big Defensive guys come up?

I dunno, I think Rhodes has looked pretty good when he fills in for Edge. He's only 1yr younger then edge, but has been in the league 3 years less.

I'd keep Wayne and see what you could get for Edge. If you could free up some salary and get a first round pick or maybe two for edge, I'd do it, will help the team down the road big time.

You guys built a good D, it would be shame to see it gone because all the money goes to the offense.

[RoXer]

Mariah Carey should shut her mouth and open her legs.

[BCWWF]

Hey Roxer, I dare you to pass me in college pick-em

[RoXer]

Too bad I missed 3 weeks.

[BCWWF]

So did I. I'm pretty sure we are even, and I hold a two game lead now. You've been poised to overtake me, and I'm surprised you haven't yet. My last couple weeks have been awful.

[RP]

i think Freeney and Doss might be up next year too. Not sure about the others.

[RP]

Jeff Garcia is the worst QB ever. Put Joey Harrington in. Atleast he'll throw a decent looking interception.

[VonErich Lives]

i think Freeney and Doss might be up next year too. Not sure about the others.

Freeney is gonna cost big bucks. That could be an issue and would make me lean more twords letting james go... might even get picks back if he signed elsewhere (not sure the status on that/him).

Also, I'm semi-listening to the game... WTF at a TD celebration when you're down like 20pts.

some players just don't get it.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Roary :'(

[RoXer]

Sheryl Crow should shut her mouth and open her legs.

[BCWWF]

She went to Mizzou

[OssMan]

lol, Dayne

[Skippord]

Jeff Garcia is the worst QB ever. Put Joey Harrington in. Atleast he'll throw a decent looking interception.

ROFLMAO

[RoXer]

Cowboys :(

[Gonzo]

WOO.

[CNM]

Hot win by the Donks. Second best team in the NFL :heart:

[AlphaBean]

:(

What a horrible O-line those 'boys have. Barber will find himself buried deep on the bench because of the play of the line.

Though it is bittersweet; I have been in love with Ron Dayne for years. His treatment in New York was uncalled for. Next year he'll rush for 2,000 yards. :love:

[CNM]

Yeah Dayne is a good guy. He catches too much shit in NY. If the Broncos made him their starter tomorrow he'd rush for 1,300 yds easy.

[AlphaBean]

Hahahaha he sure went to town on that dessert, whatever it was... I don't think he's run that many yards in a season in 5 years, and eclipsed that in a couple hours.... he must have been SPENT.

[CNM]

LOL Phil Simms' mom's homemade blackberry cobbler. He was more interested in eating than the interview.

[RoXer]

Eating Phil Simms' mom

[Skippord]

LOL Phil Simms' mom's homemade blackberry cobbler. He was more interested in eating than the interview.

That stuff looked SICK :|

[VonErich Lives]

:(

What a horrible O-line those 'boys have. Barber will find himself buried deep on the bench because of the play of the line.

Though it is bittersweet; I have been in love with Ron Dayne for years. His treatment in New York was uncalled for. Next year he'll rush for 2,000 yards. :love:

Keep in mind, he's also in better shape then he was in NY. That could have had something to do with it...

They'll give him a few touches, maybe a game or two once they wrap it up and then probably trade him in the offseason for a 3rd round pick.

That's what denver does, brings in a RB makes them look good behined "their line" and trades them for a pick... smart move by them.

[Skippord]

THATS HOW WE ROLL

[AlphaBean]

Yeah just wait till Nalen and Lepsis retire, WHAT THEN?!?!?


jk, Benji Hamilton is the future. They'll draft Craig Eslinger to replace Nalen, and then get Setterstrom, and have an all-Gopher OL. :love:

[OssMan]

That was the best thing Ron Dayne ever did for us :o

[Innovator]

He was FAT in NY, he stutterstepped in the backfield, never hit the hole, didn't show any heart.

Best thing the Giants did was get rid of him, wasted space

[OssMan]

He was FAT in NY, he stutterstepped in the backfield, never hit the hole, didn't show any heart.

Best thing the Giants did was get rid of him, wasted space
He was pretty good in college.

[RP]

I may be wrong , but i remember the Giants O line being horrible when Dayne was there. Again i could be wrong, but a bruising RB running behind a horrible Oline is not a combination of success.

On the other hand. I think i could run for a 1,000 yards behind the Denver offensive line if you give me big enough pads.

[Skippord]

Tsh anyone could

[Innovator]

He was pretty good in college.College has little to do with the Pros. Dayne was a bust, is a bust, and will always be a bust

[ddpBANG]

College has little to do with the Pros. Dayne was a bust, is a bust, and will always be a bust

He's the bust there is, the bust there was, and the bust there ever will be. :shifty:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Somebody remind me what Brees' situation is. Is his contract up this year?

Also, I guess it's a topic to consider. If you're Drew Brees, do you stay in SD or chance your arm and look for the big money elsewhere? You've gotta think there'll be at least a half dozen teams interested - Jets, Ravens, Cards and Dolphins almost certainly.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Brees got the franchise tag last year. No one really knows what they'll do but they won't let him walk. He'll either be franchised again and traded or signed to a big deal and Rivers will get traded

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Forgot the Lions off that list

lol Baltimore scored 20 points for the first time this season :'(

[Nervous Ferret]

Texansssssssss

[DaveWadding]

God, I hate the Rams. :'(

Have a nice time running away with the West, Miz :wavesad:

[Nervous Ferret]

shit

wtfff Rams :mad:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Hahaha Torry Holt is the man :love:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Fuck Kevin Curtis, Torry Holt > Curtis

I keep typing Torry Holy, meaning he should be given a sainthood for services to fantasy football.

Texans :rofl:

[Skippord]

Fuck the Giants get a lot of False Starts

[OssMan]

LOL REDSKINS

[OssMan]

shockey :love:

[AlphaBean]

My brother switched Marcus Robinson to TE on Madden...

Sounds like a plan. :love:

[LoDownM]

w00t! KC won :D, I was expecting us to lose, like we did when we played Philly

[el fregadero]

Garrard was decent enough to get us past Roxer's boys in Zona, but Leftwich better be playing next week.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

What happened to Leftwich? Gotta be pretty bad for him to be taken out of the game given he played on a broken leg in college yada yada

[el fregadero]

They say it was a sprained ankle and took him out after the first couple of plays. I know he was getting it x-rayed but don't know the results.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Wouldn't like to be Feely when Coughlin gets hold of him

[Mr. Monday Morning]

ROFL Shockey good job

[DaveWadding]

Wow. Amazing game.

[OssMan]

Jay Feely: The Anti Clutch

[AlphaBean]

WE WANT THE BALL AND WE'RE GONNA SCORE! *claps*

[Triple A]

Giants game was ridiculous.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Fucking Feely

I don't blame him for missing the 54 yarder.......but the others are inexcusable

Next week is a must-win, IMO.........if they can win that they SHOULD be in good shape to at least get a playoff spot</font>

[AlphaBean]

It's called a tailspin, Giants; get used to it. NO MORE WINS FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.

[OssMan]

Michael Irvin got found with drugs in his car

I thought he had a problem a while ago and he corrected it? whats goin on here

[AlphaBean]

He found jesus and went on the enlightened path. He would pray to Jesus nightly for forgiveness. Except after the Broncos/Cowboys game, he prayed to jesus for guidance to find the nearest dealer to ease the PAIN.

[el fregadero]

They say it was a sprained ankle and took him out after the first couple of plays. I know he was getting it x-rayed but don't know the results.
FUCK out for a month at the least

[BCWWF]

Chiefs?

[RP]

Somebody remind me what Brees' situation is. Is his contract up this year?




He would have to be a fool for wanting to leave L.T and Gates. Hell if they got a 6'3 230 pound reciever who has mad skills, they will win Superbowl(s)

The question is whether or not San Diego wants him. I think they should trade Rivers the moment the season is over. His stock will be a all time high and they could get a high draft pick.
Also, I guess it's a topic to consider. If you're Drew Brees, do you stay in SD or chance your arm and look for the big money elsewhere? You've gotta think there'll be at least a half dozen teams interested - Jets, Ravens, Cards and Dolphins almost certainly

[AlphaBean]

Brees and a draft pick for Daunte.

Wait, that won't work...

Brees for a draft pick, Daunte to Jets for Vilma. :cool:

[The Outlaw]

LOL @ Seahawks/Giants game

Like 4 false starts in a row. RIDICULOUS