NFL 2005 Season Thread

[RP]

Manning was getting destoried. The Colts could not stop the speed rush at all. Colts losing the game didn't matter cuz they everything locked up, but how they lost was interesting.

Anybody see when Manning was complaining about James not making a first down after catching it 3 yards behind the sticks. He made a motion with his hands like he should have cut it up the field, one of the announcers was like "What does he expect him to do? Break 3 tackles?" That's really the reason why I don't like Manning at all, I can't stand how he always looks like a lilllllllll bitch and complaining everything time something doesnt work right. Then when he fucks up himself its like "Whatever" or hes yelling at someone else.


I dont think he was complaining about Edge. I think that was just CBS commentary making something out of nothing. He was gesturing that way but i'm fairly positive it wasnt to do with Edge, so dont hate him for that.

Disoriented? Yah they were getting at him big time, but he stood there in the pocket taking hit after hit and still throwing perfect passes. I'm not sure what game you were watching.

But like i said. The intentional grounding call killed us. He should of done something better with the ball, but thats easy for me to say cause i'm not getting blitzed by Sean Marrimen ( a beast ).

He was far from disoriented.

[RoXer]

Cowboys :(

[RP]

I don't think it will, they will probaby finish up with one loss and that is pretty damn impressive. I just think they showed a big weakness today, which could be trouble in the playoffs.


I'm not sure what weakness your talking about. Be more specific. I mean if you are implying that our offensive line is weak, then thats laughable. Now the depth at the O line looked pretty bad when Gandy went in, but for a guy that hasnt played all year he did pretty good. There wasnt no weakness. They just didnt execute and San Diego out played them plain and simple. Guys were dropping balls and protection wasnt being picked up right away because of the injury on the O line.

[RP]

I dont know if you meant destroyed or disoriented.

[BCWWF]

You could tell the Vikings had no chance today. A great job defensively, but Pittsburgh's defense was just scary. They were confusing the shiite out of the Vikes, and Brad Johnson was finally exposed as not being = to Daunte.

At least the Colts lost though. For some reason if this year's Colt's team went 16-0 I would be disappointed. Not because they aren't good enough, but just because I don't think they have an identity like the other teams who have come close. Like if last years Patriots did it it would have been different, but for some reason this Colt's team is just a really good, yet uninteresting team to me.

Just me though.

[AlphaBean]

I dont think he was complaining about Edge. I think that was just CBS commentary making something out of nothing. He was gesturing that way but i'm fairly positive it wasnt to do with Edge, so dont hate him for that.

Disoriented? Yah they were getting at him big time, but he stood there in the pocket taking hit after hit and still throwing perfect passes. I'm not sure what game you were watching.

But like i said. The intentional grounding call killed us. He should of done something better with the ball, but thats easy for me to say cause i'm not getting blitzed by Sean Marrimen ( a beast ).

He was far from disoriented.

Shawne "Lights Out" Merriman.

I think I saw that imprinted in the shape of a cock across Peyton's cheek.

[AlphaBean]

Lights Out will have 20 tackles, 4 sacks, a forced fumble which he will pick up himself and score two touchdowns on the same play, plus maybe 12 interceptions in the Superbowl, when he singlehandedly defeats the rest of the Chargers due to all NFC teams refusing to face him.

:love:

[road doggy dogg]

CHARLES ROGERS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHG

[AlphaBean]

God I hate you Ron Mexico. If you can't pull this out of your ass I will singlehandedly destroy you with my fists.

[Joey Slugs]

REX REX REX REX REX REX REX REX REX

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Best Chad Johnson celebration of the YEAR

according to the announcers

[Crimson]

damn ,4 teams tied at 8-6 in the NFC for the last spot. Redskins are in the drivers seat all of a sudden,bastards.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Rex Grossman is the fuckin man

[RP]

He had 93 yards and 1 int. Lets be serious here.

[BCWWF]

He only played one half though, and it was freezing cold

[Gonzo]

Unless the wind is blowing its not that hard to throw the football in the cold. C'mon.

[BCWWF]

Have you ever been outside in sub-10 degree weather? And if so, did you try running or holding onto a football? After 10 feet your lungs start to burn, and as soon as you stop everything freezes up. As for the football, it becomes much harded to hold on, much less pass a football when it is rock hard and slippery.

Sorry Gonzo, but you really don't know what you are talking about here.

[RP]

Have you ever been outside in sub-10 degree weather? And if so, did you try running or holding onto a football? After 10 feet your lungs start to burn, and as soon as you stop everything freezes up. As for the football, it becomes much harded to hold on, much less pass a football when it is rock hard and slippery.

Sorry Gonzo, but you really don't know what you are talking about here.


I'd imagine being from New York , he's probably been in pretty cold weather. :roll:

Grossman was an emotional boost. Thats it. Nothing else. He did nothing else.

[RP]

I'm rooting for Grossman btw ( Only cause i played against him in high school ), but still i'm rooting for him. Lets not get ahead of ourselves tho. He didnt do anything special that Kyle Orton couldnt do.

[BCWWF]

Apparently not if he doesn't understand how cold weather can affect a football game

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Just like Michael Turner was an emotional boost eh

[RP]

Just like Michael Turner was an emotional boost eh


Just like we beat you in your own house, but atleast you got a Chad Johnson celebration and thats all that really matters right? :)

[Boomer]

I love how much all the players on the Falcons list suck.

Awesome.

[Gonzo]

Have you ever been outside in sub-10 degree weather? And if so, did you try running or holding onto a football? After 10 feet your lungs start to burn, and as soon as you stop everything freezes up. As for the football, it becomes much harded to hold on, much less pass a football when it is rock hard and slippery.

Sorry Gonzo, but you really don't know what you are talking about here.

Yes, I have been in said weather, its been like that for a week here actually. Yes, running in the cold is hard because breathing cold air starts to get painful. Yes, the football gets slippery in the cold, but its not greased down in WD-40. This is all common knowledge so I don't know what you're getting at here. I mean, its easy to assume I've never played football in the cold, and thats why you're wrong here.

I was agreeing with RP, and disagreeing with you in saying that cold weather doesn't affect a QB's performance that bad. But then again, I don't know what I'm talking about.

So do tell, what makes you the authority on the subject? Is there some sort of degree for this? :?:

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I'm pretty sure they said there was a strong crosswind in the stadium all night. Certainly affected the Bears punting in the 1st half. And Grossman made a difference simply by getting the ball out of the pocket with some accuracy, something Orton just didn't do. Not to say he's the 2nd coming of Dan Marino, and I like Orton and what he has done (or rather what he hasn't, i.e. lose games) but as it stands right now based on last night Grossman > Orton.

[Gonzo]

I didn't watch the game nor was any mention made of crosswinds or anything. My statement was basically just supporting RP and disagreeing with BCWWF.

I don't know, I don't think it matters who the Bears have at QB, there defense wins games.

[BCWWF]

The cold weather affects a football game in so many ways it's not even funny, and basically everything has to do with the passing.

Have you ever noticed how in cold games both teams turn to running the ball? That's because it makes it harder to throw and catch the ball in the cold. I don't know how you can possibly try to dispute that?

[Gonzo]

lol.

I was agreeing with RP, and disagreeing with you in saying that cold weather doesn't affect a QB's performance that bad.

I never said that it doesn't affect a QB's performance, but not as much as you say it does.

[VonErich Lives]

Yes, I have been in said weather, its been like that for a week here actually. Yes, running in the cold is hard because breathing cold air starts to get painful. Yes, the football gets slippery in the cold, but its not greased down in WD-40. This is all common knowledge so I don't know what you're getting at here. I mean, its easy to assume I've never played football in the cold, and thats why you're wrong here.

I was agreeing with RP, and disagreeing with you in saying that cold weather doesn't affect a QB's performance that bad. But then again, I don't know what I'm talking about.

So do tell, what makes you the authority on the subject? Is there some sort of degree for this? :?:

You don't need a degree, it does effect the game especially passing a lot.

That being said, I didn't see the game, or looked at the stats and have no opinion on Grossman, I'm just commenting on the effects -10 degree weather has on throwing a football.

Also, has it really been -10 for the last week where you live? and is that before or after windchill?

[VonErich Lives]

So, where the fuck is Dave Wadding?

Yeah, you know... the guy who took a hissy fit because I said it was possible that SD could beat Indy (given, I didn't think it was very likely) but since the game hadn't been played it was still possible... but that just didn't sit well with Wadding.

That was a great game by SD, it looked like a film of the Patriots beating the Colts last year. The reason I say that is they key to the Pats beating the colts has always been getting to Manning, don't give him too much time and use the blitzes to throw off those timing patterns, make him release the ball before the WR is in position, so he has to either loft it or cut it short, maybe rely on the WR to adjust. It's something the Pats couldn't do against them this year.

I hope Seattle and Indy plays their starters the first half at least, should be a great matchup.

I will admit I'm eating a lot of Seahawk Crow and am very impressed (but still can't feel confident in any team being run by a BC QB... but that's a personal issue.)

[road doggy dogg]

lol colts

[Gonzo]

[quote=VonErich Lives]You don't need a degree, it does effect the game especially passing a lot.

That being said, I didn't see the game, or looked at the stats and have no opinion on Grossman, I'm just commenting on the effects -10 degree weather has on throwing a football.

Also, has it really been -10 for the last week where you live? and is that before or after windchill?[/quote

lol, for the last time I never said it doesn't affect the passing game. I said not to an extent that BCWWF implied it does.

Oh, and its been in the single digits in temperature around here. For me when the temperatures that low, whether its negative or not I don't know the difference. Alls I know is its fucking cold. I've played football in the cold, and sure passing the ball is different, but not as bad as some of you are saying. That is all.

[RP]

lol colts



lol Lions x 40 years

LOL Lions fans. That was great.

[road doggy dogg]

lol colts

[RP]

LOL division championships.

[AlphaBean]

Shawne "Lights Out" Merriman.

[el fregadero]

Yeah who the hell was that Merriman kid? I haven't heard anything about him this year but he looked splendid in the game.

[RP]

Yeah who the hell was that Merriman kid? I haven't heard anything about him this year but he looked splendid in the game.

He's crazy good. Almost as good as Bob Sanders

[el fregadero]

Damn that is pretty good

[RP]

Damn that is pretty good


He injured a bunch of people, but not dirty like, because he hits hard. He's good. That guy gets into the playoffs. He's gunna make a statement. He's good.

[AlphaBean]

He's a physical monster. He played end and OLB at Maryland. Like, he wasn't a "tweener." He's just so good, he played both. Faster than most LB and stronger than a lot of DEs. He can do anything he wants, when he wants, to whomever he wants. Even the greatest QB in NFL history.

He has a light switch tattooed on his arm, and when he fucks someone in the ass like he did to Peyton, he flips the switch on his arm.

LIGHTS OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

He was drafted after Demarcus Ware I think, because Parcells thought Ware was better suited for the 3-4. :lol:

And drafted after Troy Williamson, because you can't coach speed. :'(

I traded for him on Madden... he's not as good on Madden as he fucking should be... yet.

I can't believe anyone hasn't heard of him. I read a quote from someone who said that Merriman is the greatest rookie LB some people have ever seen.

And the funny thing is... as much as I love him... I've never been able to see him play. :(

[el fregadero]

Yeah I think it's more like that. I heard the name somewhere before, but didn't bother following up. This was the first time I'd seen him in action. He definitely impressed me.

[RoXer]

Why do they boo Todd Heap?

[Gonzo]

I can't believe anyone hasn't heard of him. I read a quote from someone who said that Merriman is the greatest rookie LB some people have ever seen.

I have and I would say thats a bit of a stretch.

[RP]

Theres a good one in Seattle

[D Mac]

Will Favre have to hang it up?

[RP]

Maybe if Farve had his star reciever, or his 1st or 2nd string running back, or perhaps some resemblence of a defense, orrrrr maybe a coach that doesnt coach with his head up his arse. He might actually play like a pro bowl QB. Does that answer your question?

[D Mac]

Maybe if Farve had his star reciever, or his 1st or 2nd string running back, or perhaps some resemblence of a defense, orrrrr maybe a coach that doesnt coach with his head up his arse. He might actually play like a pro bowl QB. Does that answer your question?

I guess, RP. :p

[D Mac]

Wow, Packs defense MIGHT acctually be worse then the Chiefs D. :shifty:

[Gonzo]

Packers have been decimated by injuries. RP is right, he has lost his weapons. This isn't a case of Brett Favre being washed up. He still has enough to make the team contend for the division, but not alone, nobody can do that. Next year he gets his weapons back and they will compete within the division. That is unless they shaft him and want to play their young guy.

[RoXer]

Why do they boo Todd Heap?

[road doggy dogg]

He has a light switch tattooed on his arm, and when he fucks someone in the ass like he did to Peyton, he flips the switch on his arm.

That is the coolest thing of all time

[RP]

San Diego's secondary played brilliantly yesterday.

[Joey Slugs]

Why do they boo Todd Heap?

They are either yelling "Todd" or "Heap", not booing him.

[RP]

If Green Bay gets Reggie Bush.... I dont know what i'd think about that. Do they even want him? Ahmen Green has been pretty good. If not Bush, Lienart? I dunno. That pick is gunna be nuts.

[AlphaBean]

If Green Bay gets Reggie Bush.... I dont know what i'd think about that. Do they even want him? Ahmen Green has been pretty good. If not Bush, Lienart? I dunno. That pick is gunna be nuts.

Think about this for a second.

1: Bret Favre.
1a: Aaron Rodgers.

2: Ahman Green is a UFA.
2a: Najeh Davenport is a UFA.
2b: Fisher is a UFA.

Now, if the Pack can't get Reggie, they might get the other dude or Maroney. I'd go line if I was them, as there are no elite defenders that I know of. How about Rodrique Wright? He's a stud for me on Madden. :p But basically, it's HB, line or defense... they can't justify another QB. And Ahman Green is not durable enough to justify bringing back.

[RP]

I think anybody could help the Pack right now. Everyone wants Bush to go to New York tho, because its New York.

[AlphaBean]

I have and I would say thats a bit of a stretch.

LT was the GOAT. I've heard comparisons. You don't think that it's near accurate? At least as far as rookie seasons go?

Maybe if we give Lights Out a bunch of cocaine he can play better.

But imagine him in Dallas under Tuna... the two GOAT LBs under Parcells :love:.

[AlphaBean]

I think anybody could help the Pack right now. Everyone wants Bush to go to New York tho, because its New York.

Curtis Martin has another 4 years in him, what the fuck.

[RP]

Curtis Martin has another 4 years in him, what the fuck.


Martin is done dude.

[AlphaBean]

Packers have been decimated by injuries. RP is right, he has lost his weapons. This isn't a case of Brett Favre being washed up. He still has enough to make the team contend for the division, but not alone, nobody can do that. Next year he gets his weapons back and they will compete within the division. That is unless they shaft him and want to play their young guy.

Sherman's not a bad coach, he's a horrible GM. Horrible drafts, horrible FA pickups (Joe Johnson ;)). He needs help in that department. They've been cap-casualties the last five years. Since the Superbowl run, they've been losing players every year. It makes no sense. To let the Guards go was the worst move ever. They'd be better off cutting Favre than letting 2/5ths of their line leave. The team was built around running for 200 ypg. It was the only way to even remotely mask that shitty defense... and give Favre enough rest to throw those lasers in the 4th quarter to come back.

I think Favre could play till he was 50, thanks to Vicodin... he just needs to stay off his back. Much like Rectal Pertruder's mother.

[D Mac]

Curtis Martin has another 4 years in him, what the fuck.

[AlphaBean]

Martin is done dude.

That's what they said 30 years ago when he was injured in college. Don't write him off yet.

[BCWWF]

I really never wanted the Vikes to take a receiver in that position. I still think Merriman or Derrick Johnson would have been the better picks.

[The Icon of Elisim]

He was drafted after Demarcus Ware I think, because Parcells thought Ware was better suited for the 3-4. :lol:

And drafted after Troy Williamson, because you can't coach speed. :'(

I traded for him on Madden... he's not as good on Madden as he fucking should be... yet.

I can't believe anyone hasn't heard of him. I read a quote from someone who said that Merriman is the greatest rookie LB some people have ever seen.

And the funny thing is... as much as I love him... I've never been able to see him play. :(

Wasn't he the guy that tested postive for steroids before the draft? Alot of teams passed on him cause of that

[RP]

It was Luis Castillo there defensive lineman

[Mr. Monday Morning]

1) SAMKON GADO. Think I sneaked into the semis of fantasy cause of that 1 yard reception he made :$

2) Martin probably won't be back for the Jets cause of their cap issues. Though he can always renegotiate I guess. But I can't imagine they'd pay him all that much with his age and coming off knee surgery now.

3) I think I read somewhere Parcells wanted Merriman over Ware but Jimmy Johnson overruled him. Might be accurate, I dunno.

4) I don't know, I don't think it matters who the Bears have at QB, there defense wins games.

No argument there. Urlacherrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[The Outlaw]

I read a quote from someone who said that Merriman is the greatest rookie LB some people have ever seen.


http://tidefans.com/bamanation/thirdandlong/Derrick_Thomas=Shot_4.jpg

[AlphaBean]

Jimmy Johnson still making the calls 7 years after he stopped coaching them. Sexxxxy.

[AlphaBean]

http://tidefans.com/bamanation/thirdandlong/Derrick_Thomas=Shot_4.jpg

Is that Derrick Thomas?

By God, I actually felt a tinge of guilt when I thought of a pun about him hitting like a truck. :'(

[The Outlaw]

Yeah that's him. He was a beast...

[el fregadero]

Some people didn't see Derrick Thomas play, Outlaw. The quote still stands.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Jimmy Johnson still making the calls 7 years after he stopped coaching them. Sexxxxy.

*Jerry Jones :$

I always get those 2 confused for some screwy reason :$

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Imagine if they hired Jeff Jarrett to replace Parcells. Then I'd really be screwed.

[AlphaBean]

1) SAMKON GADO. Think I sneaked into the semis of fantasy cause of that 1 yard reception he made :$

2) Martin probably won't be back for the Jets cause of their cap issues. Though he can always renegotiate I guess. But I can't imagine they'd pay him all that much with his age and coming off knee surgery now.

3) I think I read somewhere Parcells wanted Merriman over Ware but Jimmy Johnson overruled him. Might be accurate, I dunno.

4)

No argument there. Urlacherrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Martin to Dallas to teach Marion Barber to be the greatest HB of all time. :love:

[RP]

Curtis Martin should retire.

[AlphaBean]

Bob Sanders should retire. :foc:

[RP]

Bob Sanders will play until he is 50

[AlphaBean]

When he sacks Bret Favre, dust will fill the RCA Dome.

[RP]

Dust already fills the RCA dome.

[D Mac]

Some people didn't see Derrick Thomas play, Outlaw. The quote still stands.

Is he in the hall of fame yet. If not, He damn well should be. :mad:

[RP]

Bob Sanders damn well should be.

[VonErich Lives]

Is he in the hall of fame yet. If not, He damn well should be. :mad:

not sure if he was "eligible" yet, but you think they'd make an exception, it's not like he can change his mind a play again.

[Gonzo]

Merriman is good but lets give it time before we make such comparisons. I wouldn't object to making such comparisons if he does this for a few years, but I think its stupid when people make comparisons after one year.

[Skippord]

Bob Sanders damn well should be eaten alive by Rod Smith.

[AlphaBean]

Merriman is good but lets give it time before we make such comparisons. I wouldn't object to making such comparisons if he does this for a few years, but I think its stupid when people make comparisons after one year.

Why not? His talents are natural. He's a freak of nature. He might fall off, sure, but he can be compared in his rookie year as a rookie phenom, as better than a rookie truly should be. It's all correct, and to say he is at this point as good as any LB at this point ever is not jumping the gun. They're not already reserving him a spot in the HOF or anything, they're just saying he's an amazing rookie and has potential to be something very special.

But TBH, if he was any better they'd have to play him on both sides of the ball, and probably let him return kicks, as well. That Sproles kid doesn't have Lights Out's amazing cutback ability and crazy field vision.

[Gonzo]

Oh alright. I thought you said you read people saying he was one of the greatest of all time. My mistake. Yeah, I agree he definitely has potential. I watched a bit of the Indy/SD game and he is a beast.

[AlphaBean]

Said GOAT as far as rookies go. BRO.

[RP]

goatse

[Jerichoholic]

He's a physical monster. He played end and OLB at Maryland. Like, he wasn't a "tweener." He's just so good, he played both. Faster than most LB and stronger than a lot of DEs. He can do anything he wants, when he wants, to whomever he wants. Even the greatest QB in NFL history.

He has a light switch tattooed on his arm, and when he fucks someone in the ass like he did to Peyton, he flips the switch on his arm.

LIGHTS OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

He was drafted after Demarcus Ware I think, because Parcells thought Ware was better suited for the 3-4. :lol:

And drafted after Troy Williamson, because you can't coach speed. :'(

I traded for him on Madden... he's not as good on Madden as he fucking should be... yet.

I can't believe anyone hasn't heard of him. I read a quote from someone who said that Merriman is the greatest rookie LB some people have ever seen.

And the funny thing is... as much as I love him... I've never been able to see him play. :(

To be fair to Ware though, he has had to learn to be a every down Linebacker this year, where Merriman is more of a situational player that comes in on plays designed for him. I think parcells was going for the guy that he thought was going to make the best full time linebacker. Also, I swear in the Indy game I saw the Colts putting only a Tight End on Merriman, what kind of foolish idea is that.

That said, I would cream myself if Merriman was on the Cowboys on the other side of Ware. :love:

Kevin Burnett will be good though, when he gets healthy.

Also bean, I share your man love for MBIII

[RP]

To be fair to Ware though, he has had to learn to be a every down Linebacker this year, where Merriman is more of a situational player that comes in on plays designed for him. I think parcells was going for the guy that he thought was going to make the best full time linebacker. Also, I swear in the Indy game I saw the Colts putting only a Tight End on Merriman, what kind of foolish idea is that.

That said, I would cream myself if Merriman was on the Cowboys on the other side of Ware. :love:

Kevin Burnett will be good though, when he gets healthy.

Also bean, I share your man love for MBIII


Whatever they did, it didnt work. He bullrushed one of our offensive lineman 7 yards in the backfield and sacked Manning. I think it was a backup Olineman, but reguardless. No linebacker should be bull rushing an offensive lineman.

[The Miz]

lmao Chad Johnson says he is going to use a deer that he hit with his car as a part of his next TD celebration

[AlphaBean]

To be fair to Ware though, he has had to learn to be a every down Linebacker this year, where Merriman is more of a situational player that comes in on plays designed for him. I think parcells was going for the guy that he thought was going to make the best full time linebacker. Also, I swear in the Indy game I saw the Colts putting only a Tight End on Merriman, what kind of foolish idea is that.

That said, I would cream myself if Merriman was on the Cowboys on the other side of Ware. :love:

Kevin Burnett will be good though, when he gets healthy.

Also bean, I share your man love for MBIII

Mine obviously runs deeper. I've been fighting the battle against Lawrence Maroney for a while, now... Barber is the truth. On Madden I just drafted Maroney, and he's 88 with like 96 speed... and after spending a year on Barber he's just NOW 89. :(

[VonErich Lives]

would be funny if Curtis Martin goes to Dallas next year.

Bledsoe, Glenn, Martin... it's like Parcelss is trying to prove what he "could have done" witht he 96 team if he cared.

[D Mac]

would be funny if Curtis Martin goes to Dallas next year.

Bledsoe, Glenn, Martin... it's like Parcelss is trying to prove what he "could have done" witht he 96 team if he cared.

I would'nt be surprised.

[Gonzo]

Pro Bowl Rosters:

NFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267706

AFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267705

Michael Vick though, weak.

[RP]

CATO FRIGGIN JUNE!!!!!!! BOB FRIGGIN SANDERS!!!!!!!!!!! JEFF FRIGGIN SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[D Mac]

Pro Bowl Rosters:

NFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267706

AFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267705

Michael Vick though, weak.

Once again, Chiefs offensive line shows up there alot.
Too bad our defense still sucks :mad:

[RP]

No Robert Mathis... Oh well. Cant start the whole team.

[Gonzo]

Tiki Bear.

[RP]

Wow get this:

The league notified the Colts that they had 8 Pro Bowlers and they said that Tarik Glenn was the 8th Pro Bowler. The league told the Colts this. Dungy told Tarik and the rest the good news. 2 hours later the league notified the Colts that there was a problem in tabulating the votes and said Jonathan Ogden was going and not Tarik Glenn.

Tony Dungy is pissed and if you know Tony Dungy. You know he doesnt get pissed easily.

[Gonzo]

That is pretty much a joke. They should just make an exception and let them both go.

[RP]

Glenn has had a better season then Ogden. For that alone he should be going, but to fuck up like that is just really really bad. Dungy is fuming. They interviewed him on ESPN and he's so pissed. Its great.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

When they do the talking heads bit on MNF Glenn speaks like a retard who's forgotten his name.

FYI

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Pro Bowl Rosters:

NFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267706

AFC
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2267705

Michael Vick though, weak.

Tres weak. I would've thought Bledsoe or Manning would've made it, even though they've had some bad games recently. Thomas Jones is a little unlucky as well - I know Dunn has put up some good yardage but Jones more or less carried that Bears offence most of the season, against teams that were stacking on him every game. Roy Williams made it in too - maybe when he gets there he can put a tracer on Santana Moss so next time they play in Dallas he doesn't forget where he is.

Little surprised Mike Peterson didn't get in either.

[Jerichoholic]

I would'nt be surprised.

I would, we have Julius Jones, Marion Barber, and Tyson Thompson. We have so many Offensive line problems right now that I can't imagine we'd be concerned about getting Martin.

[VonErich Lives]

Glenn has had a better season then Ogden. For that alone he should be going, but to fuck up like that is just really really bad. Dungy is fuming. They interviewed him on ESPN and he's so pissed. Its great.

I think each coach gets to take 1 player of choice, I assume Dungy will take him.

Weather or not he should be there is a different point, the fact they said he was in and was told he was in and then wasn't is crap, the NFL should really have their shit straight on that.

[D Mac]

Now that the Colts have finally lost, we’re hearing suggestions that maybe this was a blessing in disguise. Now the Colts won’t have to put up with the pressure and media circus that came with the “perfect season” theme. Now, coach Tony Dungy can rest starters and deal with minor injuries strictly on the basis of what’s best for his team rather than worry about a date with NFL immortality.

There’s probably a grain of truth to that suggestion but the benefit of any loss was best sized up by the coach of the 1972 Dolphins. “I once heard Jack Nicklaus say, ‘Nothing ever good comes out of losing,’ ” Shula said. “I like that.”

from http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/12/20/rand_chargers_end_a_silly_argument/

[AlphaBean]

Pat Williams should be in the Pro Bowl. He could eat everyone else on that fucking roster.

But :love: K-Rob. He's gonna be drinking Pina Coladas with Shockey. :love:

[VonErich Lives]

how the heck did Ty Law get in the Pro Bowl? I admit I haven't watched every jets game, but everything I've heard (tv, radio and friends who are jets fans) is that he's had an average of worse year and has been far from a shut down corner.

[AlphaBean]

Uh, for those questioning Ogden and Ty Law, I have three names for you:

1) Mike Alstott
2) Ozzie Smith
3) Cal Ripken


Usually, players aren't selected based on merit. A solid player who keeps his mouth shut and doesn't make mistakes is hardly ever lauded like a flashy player who makes big plays but is inconsistent.

4) Dre Bly

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Antonio Pierce got snubbed for Trotter</font> :(

[D Mac]

Now that the Colts have finally lost, we’re hearing suggestions that maybe this was a blessing in disguise. Now the Colts won’t have to put up with the pressure and media circus that came with the “perfect season” theme. Now, coach Tony Dungy can rest starters and deal with minor injuries strictly on the basis of what’s best for his team rather than worry about a date with NFL immortality.

There’s probably a grain of truth to that suggestion but the benefit of any loss was best sized up by the coach of the 1972 Dolphins. “I once heard Jack Nicklaus say, ‘Nothing ever good comes out of losing,’ ” Shula said. “I like that.”
from http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/12/20/rand_chargers_end_a_silly_argument/


Ahem, Rectal, your thoughts? *nudge*

[Gonzo]

Antonio Pierce got snubbed for Trotter :(

Pretty close stats wise, could have swung it either way.

[RP]

Ahem, Rectal, your thoughts? *nudge*


The Colts were outplayed by the Chargers period. Its not like they tried to lose. They just lost. They're still the best team and yes they need to rest, because the injury list they put out today has 11 starters listed with injuries. Marvin Harrison has a fractured hand. Cato June will sit out the rest of the season. Freeney injured his foot and Manning has a swollen knee. The loss is probably blessing in disguise.

Chargers beat them straight up. No excuses really.

[el fregadero]

WTF John Henderson > Marcus Stroud

[BCWWF]

I don't know what it's like statistically, but couldn't you make a decent case for Jake Plummer over maybe Tom Brady?

[RP]

I don't know what it's like statistically, but couldn't you make a decent case for Jake Plummer over maybe Tom Brady?

No. Giving the injuries Brady's tema has indured and giving the fact that brady's stats are better. No.

[VonErich Lives]

Passing yards:
Brady 1st 3888
Plummer 8th 3007

Passer Rating:
Brady 4th 93.3
Plummer 6th 91.3

Passing TD:
Brady 3rd 23
Plummer 5th 18

Completion %
Brady 9th 63.5
Plummer 19th 60.5

Int %
Plummer 1st 1.5%
Brady 14th 2.4%

Team Records:
Brady 9-5
Plummer 11-3.

So yeah, if Plummer went over Brady, I wouldn't complain, while Brady does lead him in most categories it's either not by much or a something that's a product of the offense (Brady didn't have Dillon for a few games, so he has 63 more ATT then plummer which leads to more yards and more td's, they key stuff like int% and completion% and QB rating are all pretty close.

[RP]

VEl its not that complicated really. . Plumer has been gereat, but Brady has been alot better condifering what he's had to deal with.

( I'm drunk so i'm n ot ediintg shit ok > )

[KingofOldSchool]

Damn...Tony Dungy's son was found dead this morning.

[RP]

are you joking?

[RP]

awww man :(

[VonErich Lives]

are you joking?

Sorry, the link is from a Boston paper, so you probably wont believe the story.

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/otherNFL/view.bg?articleid=118280

[Crimson]

Probably deserves it's own thread.

[BCWWF]

Yeah I guess Brady's numbers are considerably better. It just kind of sucks because you could argue that Plummer, Brees, and even maybe Trent Green could be on the NFC roster

[el fregadero]

Sucks for Plummer because he had a really (surprisingly) good year.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I was surprised Josh Miller didn't make it as the punter, he has been one of the bests this year in some of the worst conditions. Then again Buffalo is even worse.

[AlphaBean]

Is this the blonde kid who was always next to Dungy at the games?

[Skippord]

Sucks for Plummer because he had a really (surprisingly) good year.

not all that suprising he has always been good its just him not having to make plays all by himself

[RP]

Is this the blonde kid who was always next to Dungy at the games?
No its his oldest son.

[D Mac]

Plummer needs to shave that goofy beard and get a haircut. Hippie.

[AlphaBean]

No its his oldest son.

Well I don't know the Dungy family, I don't know whether that kid was 18 or not... I'm so old now that I've lost touch with today's youth. For all I know, that kid could have been 18... I just know that I think it's great that Dungy has a blonde-haired white son on the sidelines. DUNNO.

[Skippord]

Plummer needs to shave that goofy beard and get a haircut. Hippie.

Jake is a sexy beast :naughty:

[RP]

Well I don't know the Dungy family, I don't know whether that kid was 18 or not... I'm so old now that I've lost touch with today's youth. For all I know, that kid could have been 18... I just know that I think it's great that Dungy has a blonde-haired white son on the sidelines. DUNNO.


You're usually a funny guy Bean, but honestly i'm not laughing. Sorry.

[AlphaBean]

You're usually a funny guy Bean, but honestly i'm not laughing. Sorry.

Sorry, I wasn't really joking... I mean, that wasn't the kid, was it? Just saying that his other kid, the one who I see on the sidelines, is pretty white. Dunno.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Giants extend Osi Umenyiora for 6 years</font> :love: :love: :love:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2270401

[AlphaBean]

The next Kevin Carter!

[RP]

Sorry, I wasn't really joking... I mean, that wasn't the kid, was it? Just saying that his other kid, the one who I see on the sidelines, is pretty white. Dunno.


No this kid actually looks black. I dont have time to post a picture.

[AlphaBean]

Well regardless, I wasn't trying to make a joke. I tend to automatically infuse my serious posts with levity unintentionally. Dunno though, should you really be THAT hypersensitive about this? I can understand being sensitive... but really, take a step back and look at yourself here.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

They showed pictures of the son in question here before coverage started, kinda old from Dungy's Tampa days. Looked very much like his dad, actually. Sad, regardless :(

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Julius Jones is going absolutely nuts btw. Maybe they'll trade MBIII to the Vikings and he and Mewelde can be the 1-2 punch of Bean's dreams.

[LoDownM]

:wave: Goodbye Chargers

[OssMan]

thee highlight of my day was saying "36-0" to a bunch of redskins fans

[Innovator]

Giants are missing Pierce and McKenzie

[BCWWF]

Julius Jones is going absolutely nuts btw. Maybe they'll trade MBIII to the Vikings and he and Mewelde can be the 1-2 punch of Bean's dreams.

I like Barber in the Giants uniforms, but besides that I have no complaints.

[The Miz]

Norv Turner, the worst head coach ever? Its possible

[AlphaBean]

Julius Jones is going absolutely nuts btw. Maybe they'll trade MBIII to the Vikings and he and Mewelde can be the 1-2 punch of Bean's dreams.

If the coach actually committed to them, and we had blocking, I'd have very many orgasms, you're right.

[The Outlaw]

Some people didn't see Derrick Thomas play, Outlaw. The quote still stands.

The quote might still stand but it doesn't make it correct, Freg.

Also, LOL @

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051224/capt.cds10712242143.steelers_browns_football_cds107.jpg

[AlphaBean]

Who is that who made the tackle? I'd love to see "Lights Out" Merriman do that to someone -- it would be bloody like New Jack at that show, Transit whatever.

[The Outlaw]

THANK YOU MIKE HOLMGREEN

[The Outlaw]

SWEET HOME ALABAMA BITCHES

[The Outlaw]

Who is that who made the tackle? I'd love to see "Lights Out" Merriman do that to someone -- it would be bloody like New Jack at that show, Transit whatever.

James Harrison.

[CNM]

WOOOOOOOO AFC West Champs. Finally. It's been too long. Now, on to the Super Bowl.

[BCWWF]

BTW, Pat Williams is fuming at his Pro Bowl snub. He wouldn't even address the media.

[Nervous Ferret]

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG MEN

[The Outlaw]

Who does Williams thinks he should have gotten it over?

[Crimson]

Galloway shoulda got in...but kinda hard to figure over who.

WEll my Colts/Falcons prediction from before the year is down the drain.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Before yesterday I would've said Santana Moss, cause he had really quietened down the last few weeks.

nm though :$

[BCWWF]

I don't have anything in front of me, but there is no doubt that Pat Williams should have made the Pro Bowl

[UmbrellaCorporation]

I love you, Seahawks. :love:

[VonErich Lives]

I don't have anything in front of me, but there is no doubt that Pat Williams should have made the Pro Bowl

I don't follow the Vikes, so I'm just looking at stats, which if he plays the 2gap then the stats don't mean crap because occuping 2 blockers doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

The three who made it over him

Rod Coleman, ATL: 31-tackles, 5-assts, 10.5-sacks, 5-pass def
Shaun Rogers, DET: 26-tackles, 7-assts, 5.5-sacks, 2-pass def (missed 3 games)
Tommie Harris, CHI: 24-tackles, 4-assts, 3-sacks, 0-pass def (missed 1 game and plays tonight)

Pat Williams, MIN: 37-tackles, 21-assts, 1.5-sacks, 1-pass def. (missed 1 game and plays tonight)

Assuming he does play the 2gap I can see the argument, if not, I don't see what he's done that makes him deserve that much more then the ones who went.

Also, not talking to the press because he feels "slighted" wont indear him to anyone, it will just reinforce what's wrong with some athletes. Maybe someone should explain to him, the press doesn't get a vote.
1/3 fans and 2/3 Players/Coaches.

That being said, it's always a popularity contest to some point, and guys who don't deserve anymore still go and players who do get slighted.

The only person who has any reason to be pissed off is the OT from the colts who was told yes and then no and I'm pretty sure each coach gets to pick 1 player and where Dungy is the AFC pro-bowl coach, I'll assume he takes him (assuming Dungy still coaches the pro-bowl, he does have more important matters to deal with).

[BCWWF]

Is this the year the Seahawks finally make it? I remember last year they were the "popular underdog" in the beginning of the season and I think it hurt them, but now they are silently looking pretty good (granted they are in the worst division in football).

In the same token, I could see Washington making a run, but losing to Indy nonetheless.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Is this the year the Seahawks finally make it? I remember last year they were the "popular underdog" in the beginning of the season and I think it hurt them, but now they are silently looking pretty good (granted they are in the worst division in football).

In the same token, I could see Washington making a run, but losing to Indy nonetheless.

I've always been a hugeass Seattle fan (Seattle, Packers, Steelers are my top three), so I'm really pleased to see them going this far.

But I'll definitely agree with you. They're the best team in the worst division of the NFL. I'm really glad to see them pick up some victories on teams from other divisions (Giants, especially. Don't know why, as I don't dislike the Giants at all, but it did me some good to see Seattle beat them). I don't know if they'll make it to the Super Bowl, but I'm hoping and praying for it. I'm more afraid to see them play the Bears than any other team for some reason, though. :-\

[BCWWF]

VEL (I don't want to quote that whole thing)

I'm not familiar with the term 2-gap, but he is a nose tackle, and he definately occupies two blockers. He is huge, he is like Warren Sapp.

He should have been a lock to make the Pro Bowl weeks ago. He makes everybody around him better, C.J. Mosley looked like a Pro Bowler playing next to him.

Alphabean will do a better job explaining his dominance, as he has seen him all year, but what hurts him is that nobody knows who he is, but he is amazing.

[VonErich Lives]

I'm not familiar with the term 2-gap, but he is a nose tackle, and he definately occupies two blockers. He is huge, he is like Warren Sapp.

He should have been a lock to make the Pro Bowl weeks ago. He makes everybody around him better, C.J. Mosley looked like a Pro Bowler playing next to him.

Alphabean will do a better job explaining his dominance, as he has seen him all year, but what hurts him is that nobody knows who he is, but he is amazing.

2gap system the job of the NT or DT is not to go "up field" and get the QB or the RB, their job is to occupy 2 blockers Center/Gaurd which opens room for a DE to spin inside or a LB/CB/Saftey to Blitz.

It's one of the most underated jobs in the NFL because most fans never notice it, they look at stats and see: "this guy has no sacks, no hurries and not many tackles" what they don't realise is he opened the lane for a bunch of sacks, hurries and tackles, it's like a FB for a top running back.

As I said, I don't follow the Vikes, I'm just asking why he deserves to go, over the other players who got taken?

[BCWWF]

*waits for alphabean*

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I'm still not convinced by the Seahawks. Don't get me wrong, they've done all they can do and you can only beat who's put in front of you, but they really, *really* should've lost to the Giants, and the Giants are poor on the road. That doesn't really indicate to me that homefield will be the advantage for them it should be. Bye week on the other hand, huge help, obviously. I honestly think at this point though, if both teams were 100%, the Bears would edge them.

[Gonzo]

We sure as hell should have beat them. Jay fucking Feely.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Praying for a Packers win tonight. 14 - 7 right now, Bears. It also seems like every time I've looked at the TV, Green Bay has been getting hit with penalties.

I'm horrified at the thought of Seattle having to play Chicago. As much of a mark as I am for Alexander and Hasselbeck, I have a huge fear of the Bears defense.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I don't know off the top of my head, I might research it a little bit actually, but I'd be interested to see how the right side of the Bears D would match against the left side of the Seahawks O-line. That would probably be key.

[BCWWF]

We all want the Pack to win :p

[BCWWF]

I'm sorry but Brett Favre just isn't good anymore. It's not the team around him, he hasn't been great for years now. Commentators love to suck his dick, but the Packers would be smart to put Aaron Rodgers in next year.

[Gonzo]

I'm sorry but Brett Favre just isn't good anymore. It's not the team around him, he hasn't been great for years now. Commentators love to suck his dick, but the Packers would be smart to put Aaron Rodgers in next year.

lol Are you serious? He has nobody around him. It is the team.

[ddpBANG]

I'm sorry but Brett Favre just isn't good anymore. It's not the team around him, he hasn't been great for years now. Commentators love to suck his dick, but the Packers would be smart to put Aaron Rodgers in next year.
Yeah, you're right, it's not the team around him, because there IS no team around him. The Packers would be smart if they put a running back behind Favre.

[Joey Slugs]

DA BEARS!

2005 NFC North Champs!

Locked up that 2 seed (but I'll just so "happen" to forget what happened that last time the bears played a playoff game at home) as well.

[CNM]

Favre might not have a great team around him anymore, but he sure makes some horrible decisions. Decisions that a guy who has been around as long as he has shouldn't make. Most of his interceptions are on him.

[AlphaBean]

Yeah, you're right, it's not the team around him, because there IS no team around him. The Packers would be smart if they put a running back behind Favre.

Yeah, you're right, it's not the team around him, because there IS no team around him. The Packers would be smart if they put a running back behind Favre.

First off, :'( That's it for the season... another rebuilding period for the queens ahead.

Second off, yeah, all Favre needed was an O-Line, which provided him with a superstar HB, which gave him enough protection that he could PA into anything. He didn't need a defense. He didn't need a whole team. He just needed a little help.

Sherman is a horrible GM. He ruined one of the top OL in football, never improved the defense, and his skill position players got hurt. He put too much weight on Green, Davenport and Walker's shoulders and it bit him in the ass. He's still got the skill to win a superbowl if he was on a good team.

Third off, Pat Williams was an undrafted Rookie Free Agent. He signed for a "good" contract, but nothing more. He should be getting more than he's getting. He's got a chip on his shoulder, he doesn't think like other people think. Most players, like the ones in the pro bowl, they were drafted with EXPECTATIONS of getting to the Pro Bowl. These guys were all 1st round picks, pretty sure. Dunno about Rod Coleman, but the point is... they were drafted. How many HBs do you know who care about fantasy stats? Priest Holmes does. He has a chip on his shoulder, too. He wants to get as many stats as possible in the short time he has in the league, because his time in the NFL matters a whole lot more than someone like LT, who started as a rookie. Priest Holmes and Pat Williams spent years on the bench before they had their chance. They know their careers aren't going to be as prolific as Bret Favre's. They started their careers in hurry-up offense mode. That's why, when Pat Williams laughs and mocks a Center for being pathetic and incapable of blocking him, even when his team loses, you understand. It's not about the team. No team has ever handed anything to him, so he doesn't owe anybody anything.

But basically, he made Olin Kreutz his personal bitch, and Kreutz makes the Pro Bowl every year. When the best center goes against a DT and gets decimated... that's an estimation of the quality of a player.

[The Outlaw]

I'm sorry but Brett Favre just isn't good anymore. It's not the team around him, he hasn't been great for years now. Commentators love to suck his dick, but the Packers would be smart to put Aaron Rodgers in next year.

Wow.

Favre is making horrible decisions, but it's pretty obvious he is trying to force things because...well...he basically feels he HAS to.

Andrae Thurman.
Samkon Gado.
Noah Herron.
David Martin.
Robert Ferguson.
Antonio Chatman.
Rod Gardner.

How many of those guys had you heard of before this year? How many of them do you have no idea who they are?

These guys are the Packers skill players sir.

[BCWWF]

So all those horrible interceptions are everybody elses fault?

You guys can stop pretending, he hasn't been the Brett Favre that he has been talked up to be for years. He is hella tough, there is no doubt about that, but he's not a great passer anymore and he makes a lot of poor decisions.

He is the iron man, but the Packers will be better off with somebody else starting next year.

[ddpBANG]

I agree, he's not the Favre of old, but he would throw less interceptions if the Pack had a decent running game and an O-Line that could buy him a little time.

[VonErich Lives]

Favre has the same issue with "bad decisions" that Bledsoe does. They both have cannon arms that they rely on, they both see a guy 30yds down field, double covered with a small seperation and say "I can't put that in there" and for years, Favre did, now maybe he lost a little off his throw, and those same balls, becomes INT's rather then amazing plays. The Packers do need to rebuild, they do need to start Aaron Rodgers, but not until they have a healthy running game and an OL to block. Till then, why not let Favre get killed and Rodgers stay on the bench. Also, don't forget GB always had a history of drafting "the next QB" and after a few years on the bench dealing him for a pick (see: Aaron Brooks & Mark Brunell)

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Rodgers didn't look all that great last week in garbage time against the Ravens (btw what the hell has happened there? I know they haven't exactly been playing the Bears and Pats but suddenly Boller looks at least serviceable) but again that's mainly down to not having anything around him, bad situation for him to come into. They should rebuild and get guys healthy before he gets anywhere near the start.

To me it looks like the whole team just wants this season over and done with, can't say I blame them. I have no great affinity for Favre but he is basically out there trying to win on his own (Driver being the exception I guess, although he was pussying out of some balls last week)

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Speaking of Boller, he played pretty awesomely last night against the Vikings. Wasn't too bad of a game at all.

As for Favre, I love him, always have. I can see this from two sides though. He HAS lost some of his edge, but he's by no bounds a bad quarterback. On the other hand, the Packers offense has a bunch of guys that just seemed to pop up overnight. Even if Favre gets a good pass off, chances are that those guys will blow it.

[BCWWF]

OK Brad Johnson is a guy who is getting way too much credit. He is simply an average quarterback, and that is why the Vikings aren't going to the playoffs. I give him all the credit it the world for winning all those games, but to do that he basically just had to be consistantly average.

When it comes to winning a big game (such as the last two) you have to be better then just a consistantly average quarterback. When somebody starts to chase him, it's over. He just isn't good enough to lead a team places, he is only good enough to do what a backup is supposed to do.

So all the credit in the world for what he deserves, but he doesn't deserve any more than a backup quarterback successfully going through the punches.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

yeah Brad Johnson can't lead anybody anywhere in any big game like that Super Bowl he won

[VonErich Lives]

So, there's talk Jim Mora Jr. will get suspended by the team.

With like 1:20 left in OT and 4th and 2 on their own like 25, Mora punted.

He has said something like, he didn't know if a Win would mean more about their playoff chances then a tie at the time.

Well, after the game he goes to do his usually post-game interview on the radio and gets asked "why did you punt..." he takes off his headset and slams or throws it and then throws the mic almost hitting a female radio reporter (I think she was the sideline person) in the head and storms off.

I dunno, I think he flipped out (guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree there), but should the team really suspend him? that seems a bit much...

[VonErich Lives]

OK Brad Johnson is a guy who is getting way too much credit. He is simply an average quarterback, and that is why the Vikings aren't going to the playoffs. I give him all the credit it the world for winning all those games, but to do that he basically just had to be consistantly average.

When it comes to winning a big game (such as the last two) you have to be better then just a consistantly average quarterback. When somebody starts to chase him, it's over. He just isn't good enough to lead a team places, he is only good enough to do what a backup is supposed to do.

So all the credit in the world for what he deserves, but he doesn't deserve any more than a backup quarterback successfully going through the punches.

I dunno, I see your point about him currently, but keep in mind the guys 37years old, I wouldn't expect him to win too many foot races, especially when he was never a "running QB".

I think he can still lead a team, but has to have the proper team around him, still has a good arm and decent release, short stuff to get the D to cheat-up and then try and burn them deep, but yeah, I wouldn't expect him to scramble and out-run too many people.

yeah Brad Johnson can't lead anybody anywhere in any big game like that Super Bowl he won

I'm pretty sure he was referring to today, not 2002 when he put up some of the best numbers of his career.

[The Outlaw]

He did a lot better than anyone thought he would (Johnson).

Like I said, Favre has made horrible decisions. I'm pretty sure noone's denying that, and I'm not sure what the whole "You guys can stop pretending" meant. He's the first to take blame for the losses and the first to admit he's making bad decisions. To say he is over the hill and can't play anymore is pretty outrageous though.

Again, Andrae Thurman, Noah Herron, David Martin, Robert Ferguson, Antonio Chatman, and Rod Gardner are his skill players. You have to have a team around you to be successful, pretty simple.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Vikings lost yesterday because they gave up 30 points to the Ravens.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Favre needs to hang them up though. Just becuase you have a horrible team around you doesn't mean you need to make bad decisions. Having a bad team around you means you will lose, but having a bad team around doesn't mean you need to lead the NFL in INTs. When a LB steps infront of a WR and takes it to the house, you can't blame that on Noah Herron, sorry.

People want to love Favre because hes been great for a lot of years but players get older and can't compair with themselves of before. I still think Favre would have a lot of INTs and shit if he was on another team, he always made bad decisions. He's labeled as a "Gun slinger" which basically means he throws the ball around, that worked for him before when he could still really sling it, but he's lost some of his skills due to age/injuries.

[Gonzo]

I think in Favre's case he is trying to do too much because of the lack of players around him. I'm not saying he doesn't make bad decisions, but look at his numbers from last year, you don't just drop off that much in one year enough to warrant retirement. His team has really been hampered by injuries and I think he tries to do too much.

Now, lets shift the discussion a little bit. Who do you all have as MVP, why? State your cases.

They have a poll on ESPN.com that Shaun Alexander is leading in. I generally agree with that, I'm not too sure how well Seattle's defense is or anything like that because I've only seen one game. Hasselback is a pretty good quarterback I think but I think without Alexander the Seahawks definitely would not be in their position.

What do you guys think about Tiki Barber though? I think he is in a similar situation as Alexander is in Seattle. Our defense picked it up in the middle of the year, so that helped the team. Manning has been ridiculously inconsistent all year and Tiki has more or less carried the team. I know it sounds homerish to say Tiki ought to be MVP, but what do you guys think?

[Team Sheep]

Jets home win tonight!! :love:

[Team Sheep]

Is this the last night of ABC showing MNF then?

[Gonzo]

On ABC yeah. I think its going to ESPN. EPSN and ABC are all the same company now a days I think though.

[Team Sheep]

Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. :| Sky's coverage is so much better.

[Gonzo]

I don't think it would. I've been hearing something about NBC having the Sunday Night games and something between either NBC or ESPN getting to choose which game it wants, between the MNF and SNF games? I don't know what the deal is with that though. Like, how that works out with tickets and fans and stuff?

[UmbrellaCorporation]

4th quarter at about 11 minutes, 28 - 14 Patriots. :love:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Patriots dominated them, wasn't nearly as close as the score.

Ty Law ran back an INT, he wants back with the Patriots though. He didn't even celebrate and he was constantly helping people up and stuff. They even mentioned (the commentators) how he might come back and how he hasn't burned any bridges. I guess he realized making a ton of money is more fun when you are winning.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Vrabel is a sick fuck too, 2 TD catches :love:

[BCWWF]

You don't understand what I am saying, and what it's like in Minnesota.

Brad Johnson came in and did a hell of a job winning what six straight games? For a backup quarterback, he is easily one of the top non-starters in the league this year. But there is a reason he didn't get any starting offers in the beginning of the year. The first tough opponent that the Vikes played with him (Pittsburgh) destroyed him, because he isn't a great quartback. He is consistantly average, and thats all he needed to be to win those games, but you can't win in the playoffs with him as your quarterback.

Now that looks like I am completely putting him down, but I don't mean to be. It's just that from his success, people in Minnesota have turned on Duante Culpepper. People want to trade Duante and let BJ start next year. That is just rediculous. Culpepper has some troubles fumbling, and he occasionally makes a poor decision passing, but he also has a great arm that threw for what, 40 some touchdowns last season. What is important though, he has the intangibles. He can scramble, he can get hit hard, and he can just make things happen.

So all the props to BJ for doing much more than he was expected to, but jesus christ, he isn't even close to Culpepper.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. :| Sky's coverage is so much better.

It won't. And please explain how Colin Murray is Scottish :|

[Y2Ant]

Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. :| Sky's coverage is so much better.
he's irish you nob

[Y2Ant]

also, it's all about the Mike Carlson

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

You don't understand what I am saying, and what it's like in Minnesota.

Brad Johnson came in and did a hell of a job winning what six straight games? For a backup quarterback, he is easily one of the top non-starters in the league this year. But there is a reason he didn't get any starting offers in the beginning of the year. The first tough opponent that the Vikes played with him (Pittsburgh) destroyed him, because he isn't a great quartback. He is consistantly average, and thats all he needed to be to win those games, but you can't win in the playoffs with him as your quarterback.

Now that looks like I am completely putting him down, but I don't mean to be. It's just that from his success, people in Minnesota have turned on Duante Culpepper. People want to trade Duante and let BJ start next year. That is just rediculous. Culpepper has some troubles fumbling, and he occasionally makes a poor decision passing, but he also has a great arm that threw for what, 40 some touchdowns last season. What is important though, he has the intangibles. He can scramble, he can get hit hard, and he can just make things happen.

So all the props to BJ for doing much more than he was expected to, but jesus christ, he isn't even close to Culpepper.Well Johnson is probably going to be the starter to start off next season, I highly doubt Culpepper will be ready to go by then.

[AlphaBean]

Give Culpepper K-Rob and an offensive coordinator and he'll dominate. Loney's play calls were horrendous compared to Scott Linehan's. Linehan actually gameplanned against defenses, and knew Pep's strengths/Weaknesses, as well as those of the entire team. Loney tried to make Pep buy time while his slow WRs tried getting separation on long posts, Z-outs and other complex routes, but the O-line didn't do a goddamn thing to help him. So when he was down 24-0 he would throw it long, it would get tipped and intercepted, and the Daunte-haters put it all on him -- not on the quality of opponent, or unpreparedness of his offense.

Brad did dump passes. He would do underhand/two-handed ducks for 2 yards, because he called his own plays. Daunte never did that, though he should have. I'll admit Pep is not the smartest quarterback, but physically, you tell him where to throw it and he'll do it. Randall Cunningham was the same way. He just needs a coordinator. And I think the Vikings should hire one immediately to start the off-season. While Pep is rehabbing, he can study the playbook and come into 2006-2007 ready to go.

[RP]

Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

[VonErich Lives]

Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

No question about it, in their prime, best against best Pep has the tools, but does that make him a better QB?

Quite frankly with his skills, Pep should be one of if not the best QB in the league hands down, he's big, fast, strong, quick release, tough to tackle, can out run DL and run over LB's (not just DB's).

But, why isn't he! Who do we blame? Denny Green had plenty of talant arount him on offense and he had some good years, but why don't we talk about him with Manning & Brady? We should, and some do, but most don't...

[Team Sheep]

he's irish you nob

Whatever, he plays on his PSP during the games.

[AlphaBean]

No question about it, in their prime, best against best Pep has the tools, but does that make him a better QB?

Quite frankly with his skills, Pep should be one of if not the best QB in the league hands down, he's big, fast, strong, quick release, tough to tackle, can out run DL and run over LB's (not just DB's).

But, why isn't he! Who do we blame? Denny Green had plenty of talant arount him on offense and he had some good years, but why don't we talk about him with Manning & Brady? We should, and some do, but most don't...

You must be taking the piss.

Last season he had a season parallel to Manning's. Better in some ways, worse in others. It'd be better but the running game was there.

The Vikings have been in flux -- no continuity. Continuity is the one thing the Colts have had. They are steady every season, and unfortunately, the Vikings and Colts have similar playoff records during Pep and Peyton's respective careers.

This year, new coordinator, and an overhaul on defense. Defenders don't come on until midseason after Pep is killed. Nobody knows what Pep could do with this team, and to be honest, maybe he would have lost some games Brad would have won. Because Brad played his own style, and Daunte just ran the plays called. He's only as good as his team and coaches. But when his team and his coaches are all doing well, he will outperform any Brady or Manning, because he has better physical tools. I think he just doesn't trust in his own decision-making yet. Either that, or he's just not smart enough.

As for Brady, well, he really hasn't had to win many games, has he? At least in the SuperBowl years. It was always "protect the ball" and "let the defense dominate." Now, if Pep had that, things might have been different. With a defense, he might already have a ring. That's why Brad has a ring. One ring. That's why Trent Dilfer has a ring. One ring. Because their defenses stood up for one year at their peak.

So to answer your question, who is to blame? Must someone be to blame? Maybe it just so happens that Pep is an amazing talent at Quarterback, but that just isn't enough to save this franchise. But do we say that Barry Sanders was not great?

[Joey Slugs]

On ABC yeah. I think its going to ESPN. EPSN and ABC are all the same company now a days I think though.

MNF debuts next season on ESPN, correct. ESPN & ABC are owned by the same company... Disney.

I don't think it would. I've been hearing something about NBC having the Sunday Night games and something between either NBC or ESPN getting to choose which game it wants, between the MNF and SNF games? I don't know what the deal is with that though. Like, how that works out with tickets and fans and stuff?

SNF is making the shift to NBC & Madden/Costas (rumor) will have broadcast duties. ESPN & NBC will not be allowed to hand pick which games they show. The only people that can do that are the NFL schedule makers. (Do you think that MNF would choose to show Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week?) It'll never happen.

[Joey Slugs]

Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

OVER RATED

[Joey Slugs]

http://espn.starwave.com/media/insider/2005/1227/photo/w_grossman_508.jpg

From ESPN Insider

Everyone knows the Chicago Bears (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=chi) have the best defense in football right now. But with QB Kyle Orton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7282) leading an anemic offense, few believed they could make a long playoff run. Now that QB Rex Grossman (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6358) has assumed the starting role, the question is whether he gives them enough offense to be a playoff threat. I believe he does.

With Orton at the helm, the Bears could count on their offense scoring somewhere between seven and 14 points per game. With Grossman, they can count on an extra touchdown, or 14-21 points per game. With a defense as good as theirs, the Bears feel they can win every game with that type of offensive production.

While Grossman isn't Peyton Manning (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4256) or Tom Brady (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5228), he is confident. And that confidence is infectious. The Bears might have been on the verge of a mutiny if Orton was left in at quarterback. In our meetings for "NFL Live," Mike Golic always talks about how divided the locker room was when he played for the Eagles in the late 1980s and early '90s. Their defense was awesome, but their offense couldn't do a thing.

<offer> </offer>Confidence might be biggest difference between the two quarterbacks. Somewhere along the way this season, Orton became afraid to make mistakes. Thus, almost all of his throws became check-downs. Even when receivers were open, Orton wasn't confident they were open enough and threw the short pass instead.

No one is happier about Grossman's taking over at quarterback than wide receiver Muhsin Muhammad (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3511), who was becoming more and more disgruntled with Orton's unwillingness to go vertical. On Grossman's first play against Green Bay, he threw a deep fade that was incomplete. That throw was a statement, both to the opposition and to his own team that things were going to change with the offense.

Muhammad is one of the best possession receivers in football and, with Bernard Berrian (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6837) as a speed burner, is finding more space to move the chains. The Bears like to line up Berrian and Muhammad on the same side, have Berrian run a deep pattern to clear out defenders and run Muhammad underneath over the middle in the vacated space. Unlike Orton, Grossman is willing to make that throw, and he trusts his arm to get it there and his receiver to come down with the catch.

In terms of actual plays the Bears are running, they are still a simple offense with Grossman, but because he presents the threat of going deep, the scheme is more effective. The Bears are not asking Grossman to survey the entire field and make a lot of progression reads. What they are asking is that he trust where the play is supposed to go and not immediately check down.

This passing game, or even the threat of it, will back the defense's safeties off, which will make life easier for the ball-control running game. Before, teams were playing eight- and even nine-man fronts, with both safeties in the box and single coverage on the outside. Now teams will have to respect the pass a little more and drop their safeties back in coverage more often. This will open up the running game a little more for Thomas Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5036), who after seeing stacked fronts for so long will probably think he's in heaven if he sees only seven defenders playing the run.

During the first eight games of the season, Jones averaged 20 carries per game and 4.5 yards per attempt. Over the next six games, as teams started crowding the line because they weren't threatened by Orton and the passing game, Jones' numbers fell to 3.8 yards per carry on 18 attempts per game. Against the Packers Sunday, with Grossman under center, Jones carried 25 times for 105 yards, his first 100-yard game since Week 7.

Grossman's numbers weren't spectacular against Green Bay (11 of 23, 166 yards, one touchdown, one interception), but the throws he was making -- accurate and decisive, with good velocity -- were a clear indication that the Bears are better off with him at quarterback.


And another thing: New England WILL be the AFC champs this year & they will be playing either Chicago or Seattle.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Madden is going to NBC, dunno whether he'll be in the booth or the studio though.

[BCWWF]

No, I think New England will make the AFC Championship, but I think Indy is just too strong.

[VonErich Lives]

SNF is making the shift to NBC & Madden/Costas (rumor) will have broadcast duties. ESPN & NBC will not be allowed to hand pick which games they show. The only people that can do that are the NFL schedule makers. (Do you think that MNF would choose to show Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week?) It'll never happen.

Wanna bet?

Either the NBC Sunday contract or the ESPN Monday contract or possible both, have agreements for the network with notice to request a different game.

I've read two different version for NBC, one is it's the league's descretion, the other is NBC can request a game switch for the last 7 weeks of the season, so a 1pm or 4pm game would move to NBC for "prime time sunday".

As for ESPN, If I recall correctly, ESPN gets to request a different game and they actually get to pick the game for the last 1/2 of the season w/ 30days notice. This means a sunday 1pm or 4pm can get moved to Mondaynight, however I think NBC gets a certain number of "proections" so if they happen to have the best game of the week already they won't lose it.

I'll look later and see if I can find the exact details, but those contracts (1 or both) had provisions for making sure that they wouldn't get
Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week

[VonErich Lives]

ok, just did a google, looks like it just NBC that gets it, but I thought it was part of ESPN 1.1billion dollar/year package also.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/19/MNGO4CB6UN1.DTL

NBC will get the league's opening game on a Thursday night, and the network also gets the benefit of "flexible scheduling" for the final seven weeks of the season. The NFL will try to avoid having matchups between also- ran teams in its prime-time telecasts; apparently the league figures it is easier on fans and schedule-makers to move the time of, say, a Sunday afternoon game to the evening, than it would be to move a Sunday game to Monday.

[VonErich Lives]

You must be taking the piss.

Last season he had a season parallel to Manning's. Better in some ways, worse in others. It'd be better but the running game was there.
I agree with last year, but he should be there every year, he has the "physical tools". Also, even last year with the great year, he doesn't seem to get the "Credit" It's true to some point, you're only as good as your team around you, but the "great qb's" find a way to win when they don't have the best team.


The Vikings have been in flux -- no continuity. Continuity is the one thing the Colts have had. They are steady every season, and unfortunately, the Vikings and Colts have similar playoff records during Pep and Peyton's respective careers.

This year, new coordinator, and an overhaul on defense. Defenders don't come on until midseason after Pep is killed. Nobody knows what Pep could do with this team, and to be honest, maybe he would have lost some games Brad would have won. Because Brad played his own style, and Daunte just ran the plays called. He's only as good as his team and coaches. But when his team and his coaches are all doing well, he will outperform any Brady or Manning, because he has better physical tools. I think he just doesn't trust in his own decision-making yet. Either that, or he's just not smart enough.


Ok, that's what I was asking, I don't watch him enough, but I agree, he has the tools to be the best QB in the league, Manning's arm, Vick's legs, LB/DL size...


As for Brady, well, he really hasn't had to win many games, has he? At least in the SuperBowl years. It was always "protect the ball" and "let the defense dominate." Now, if Pep had that, things might have been different. With a defense, he might already have a ring. That's why Brad has a ring. One ring. That's why Trent Dilfer has a ring. One ring. Because their defenses stood up for one year at their peak.


I'll disagree with that, but you'd expect none the less from me, yes, the Pats have had good defenses (well, not this year) and yes they typically have had a decent running game, but they always seem to use the Pass to set-up the run, also if it wasn't for him making the "drive" in a few of those "big games" (playoffs, superbowls) he'd be short at least 2 rings. On the flip side, bledsoe doesn't come in and hit that TD to the back of the endzone on 2001 and Brady doesn't get a chance to win the SB against STL.


So to answer your question, who is to blame? Must someone be to blame? Maybe it just so happens that Pep is an amazing talent at Quarterback, but that just isn't enough to save this franchise. But do we say that Barry Sanders was not great?

Valid point, but is it he can't "save the franchise" or the "franchise can't save him".

I dunno, I just feel like we should expect more from him, maybe he hasn't had the right coaching or system, who knows... I don't follow them close hence why I ask, I just look at this guys "tools" and feel he's a man among boys at that position.

[Joey Slugs]

ok, just did a google, looks like it just NBC that gets it, but I thought it was part of ESPN 1.1billion dollar/year package also.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/19/MNGO4CB6UN1.DTL

thanks for the research.

[VonErich Lives]

thanks for the research.

www.google.com is about the extend of my research abilities, I never took that class in highschool about how to use the "card catalog at the library", but it must be pretty intense if you need a whole class dedicated to it!

[OssMan]

Yo here is a question for the folk who go to games frequently. When I was at
skins game this week, I heard a ton of "Giants suck,"
"Tiki sucks, Eli sucks" etc. No one cheering for the Redskins, or the regular
chants you would normally hear at football games.
Is it always like this everywhere? I mean it was a huge divisional
game but my dad was saying he never heard it that much when he was a kid.
Apparently you could hear it on TV too :o

So yeah does it happen a lot in other places

[Gonzo]

I think the Giants chances are shit now. Our strong point, the defense, over the past half of the season has been decimated with injuries. Two starting linebackers on injured reserve. We had to bring in guys that played for us last year to fill in. We're fucked.

[Skippord]

No, I think New England will make the AFC Championship, but I think Indy is just too strong.

No they're really not my prediction for the Superbowl this year would be

Denver or Pittsburgh Vs Chicago or the Seahawks

side note my pick of Denver isnt hometown bias its that I actually belive they are good enough to beat Indy this year.

also if we lose 44-19 this year I'll kill myself

[Gonzo]

I don't think Denver makes it that far. They're good but they aren't that good.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Pittsburgh?

[RP]

No they're really not my prediction for the Superbowl this year would be

Denver or Pittsburgh Vs Chicago or the Seahawks

side note my pick of Denver isnt hometown bias its that I actually belive they are good enough to beat Indy this year.

also if we lose 44-19 this year I'll kill myself

How bout 52 - 21

[VonErich Lives]

How bout 52 - 21

Then he'll only pull out his finger nails.

I laugh at the locals fans all talking about how the Pats should win this week to try and get the #3 seed, so they'd go to Denver in the 2nd round not Indy.

I dunno, maybe it's me... but we should probably make it through round #1 1st.

If I have a choice of Jax or Pitt, I'd take Jax. Also, if you're going to have to go through Indy at some point, is week 1 week going to make a huge difference?

[RP]

For what its worth. I hope they get the #3 seed. Pats Vs Colts in the AFC championship in Indianapolis would be tits.

[RP]

The Pats can smash anyone, but Indy and they can beat Indy. This AFC playoffs will be amazing.

[VonErich Lives]

yeah, I'd like to see it again, although if the Pats play then round #2 that's ok with me.

Although, if Bruschi isn't back and it's Monty "speed bump" Bisel, I wouldn't be shocked if they don't get past round #1.

I'm happy they made the playoffs, 2002 was a huge leftdown to win the superbowl and then miss the playoffs... at least give yourself a shot to defend your title.

[RP]

I think the Pats are the second best team in the NFL right now. You should give them more credit. There experience alone means so much. Now they are playing some great football. I'm worried about the Pats again. Indy will beat the pants off any other team in the NFL in this playoffs. Even the Bungals. But when ( not if ) they play the Pats in the playoffs. Its gunna be a wild game.

I dont think its a matter of if with the Pats anymore. They are really good right now.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Pats - Steelers in the snow :drool:

[VonErich Lives]

I think the Pats are the second best team in the NFL right now. You should give them more credit. There experience alone means so much. Now they are playing some great football. I'm worried about the Pats again. Indy will beat the pants off any other team in the NFL in this playoffs. Even the Bungals. But when ( not if ) they play the Pats in the playoffs. Its gunna be a wild game.

I dont think its a matter of if with the Pats anymore. They are really good right now.

Witht he way they've looke the last few weeks I agree, the Pass Rush woke up, which makes the DB's better.

The main thing that scares me (well, besides whatever injury brady has that has him wearing a brace on his leg) is Bruschi.

The Defense turned around after he came back, if he's out for a playoff game, who knows...

wait, we're disagreeing and you're saying tha Pats are better then I think they are... WTF is this forum coming to!

[VonErich Lives]

Pats - Steelers in the snow :drool:

50's and rainy today, but we got 2 weeks and it was 15-20 a few weeks ago.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Pats - Steelers in the snow :drool:

I know, that possibility has me :drool: too.

I'd also freaking love to see Seattle/Pittsburgh. Two of my three favorite teams.

[Gonzo]

If I was the Patriots I would want to play the Colts ASAP if I eventually had to. I mean, not to try to make light of Dungy's situation or anything, and the injuries the Colts are nagged with, I would want them ASAP. Gives the Pats their best chance, in my opinion.

[D Mac]

Pats 2nd best in the AFC maybe, but not NFL. Maybe 3rd behind Seattle and you could probably throw Chicago into the mix.

[Skippord]

Pats 2nd best in the AFC maybe, but not NFL. Maybe 3rd behind Seattle and you could probably throw Chicago into the mix.
No respect no respect at all

[Skippord]

also if we get anyone at home I think we can beat them

[AlphaBean]

Skippord, you have the floor. Why, pray tell, do the Broncos deserve to win it all? Why should they be called one of the best teams in the NFL? You've given no facts, only "Broncos are great" "Broncos all the way" "Broncos are underrated, you'll see!"

[D Mac]

Chiefs are great, Chiefs all the way, Chiefs are underated, you'll see! :shifty:

[Kris P Lettus]

http://neworleanssaints.com/newsroomarticle.cfm?articleid=2239

HWGIWEUGWEIFUGWDKJHW:DKLSJHQWSK:JH

yus

:love:

[AlphaBean]

And just think -- next year yall might have a QB! *AND* a HB!:eek:

[Kris P Lettus]

And sadly, yall'll have neither..

:wavesad:

[AlphaBean]

Yet somehow, we won more games... :nono:

[Skippord]

Skippord, you have the floor. Why, pray tell, do the Broncos deserve to win it all? Why should they be called one of the best teams in the NFL? You've given no facts, only "Broncos are great" "Broncos all the way" "Broncos are underrated, you'll see!"

BRONCOS ALL THE WAY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.:shifty:

[VonErich Lives]

BRONCOS ALL THE WAY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.:shifty:

While they're not my pick, I'll try and help him a bit cause I'm bored and can't sleep.

Defense. (rankings are amongst AFC teams)

3rd in points allowed
3rd in rushing yards allowed
6th in yard per rush allowed

Offense

4th in points per game
4th in TD's
2nd in Rushing TD's
1st in Rushing Yards
1st in avg yards per carry

2nd turnovers
2nd in +/-

There are some reasons..

[AlphaBean]

Aha.

How were they in big games? Playing from behind? Conference games? Dome? Away games? Prime Time?

Let's see the meaningful statistics.

[Gonzo]

Giants beat em.

[D Mac]

Chiefs beat em.