MLB 2006 Season Thread

[The Miz]

Holy fuck BCWWF picked a good game to go to. Jason Kubel walk-off grand slam

[The Miz]

D'backs release Russ Ortiz
Twins release Tony Batista
Twins will reportedly release Rondell White

Twins struck out last offseason :(

[Gertner]

ugh, theyd betetr not trade hillenbrand for kennedy

[BCWWF]

OMG! Please sit down. Tonight was the best baseball game I have ever been to. First of all, Schilling vs. Santana got the Dome about as filled as a good weekend series, and a lot of the fans were young, and of course it's the Red Sox, so it was the best Twins crowd I've seen.

So Johan starts by striking out 5 of the first 6, then like 7 of the first nine or something just rediculous. Schilling was pitching well, but Lew Ford and Torii kept killing rallies as well. Anyway, of course Boston gets the random home run in the seventh to go up 1-0. Usually that is it for the Twins, but Cuddy came in the bottom of the inning and went yard (there was a fan near with a sign "Cuddy=Clutch"). So we get to the 12th inning, same score, and Boston gets a rally going against Jesse Crain. They score a run on a real close play (Punto dove and Castillo almost got the DP) but we think it might be over. Would have been a good game regardless. Anyway, Joe Mauer strikes out, (second time in the game WTF) but then Cuddy and Morneau get to 2nd and 3rd, they walk Hunter and rookie Jason Kubel come up and hits a walk off grand slam! The place went nuts!

Then the cherry on top. Kevin Garnett was sitting in the front row by the Twins dugout. He stuck out so much, like a foot taller than everybody. Anyway, after the game he is walking up the stairs of my section and we all got pounds. I told him we were bringing him a championship.

I also got on the jumbotron. I remember a few years back I saw a highlight of the Wolff Pack, the group that cheered on Randy Wolff when he was good. When he got a strikeout, they would do this dance where they just did the umps strikeout sign over and over. So when Johan got hot, we started doing that and god a good showing on the jumbotron.

Finally, I hate Red Sox fans, but it also made it for my best heckling night to date. See it's not the real Red Sox fans like Stima and MVP, it's the people from everywhere in the world that jumped on the bandwagon. Like it was getting pretty loud when Varitek hit the HR, and they tried to start a "Lets go Red Sox chant." I know some of them are actually from Boston, but I just hate the bandwagon fans. So that brought out some classic heckles such as "Hey Curt, here's some paint for your sock", "You're not from Boston, shut up", "Red Sox buy their World Series with a price, Twins win them with a Puckett", and when Ortiz hit a deep fly ball and the Bandwagon Socks fans got excited, I had to remind them "Don't you remember? Ortiz is no good in the Dome, he just breaks his wrists."

Anyway, seriously, this was everything you ever want from a baseball game. Just about everything sweet that possibly could happen did. Seriously, if the Twins can make some 2003-esque deals this offseason, the core of Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Cuddyer, Hunter, Santana, Liriano, Bonser and Crain can take us far in a couple years.

You can stand up now.

[BCWWF]

Also, ESPN's poll right now asks who you would vote for in AL Cy Young right now: Contreras, Mussina, Halladay, Pappelbon and Schilling. OK, honestly Schilling? I will let The Miz name as many pitchers as he can that are better than Schilling so far this season. Not to say he is pitching bad, but Cy Young worthy? C'MON.

Also, I am surprised that Batista was the first one to get cut. I liked him and it's too bad, but it is rumored that him, White and Castro will all be gone pretty soon. I wasn't expecting it to happen yet, because White and Batista were going to be let go to make room for Ruben Sierra and Shannon Stewart. I thought Castro would be let go at a later date to bring up Bartlett, but who knows. I guess the youth movement is starting, although I would still prefer FA's at 3B and SS rather than Tiffee and Bartlett next season.

[RoXer]

D'backs release Russ Ortiz


That makes me very happy.

[The Miz]

BCWWF, he pitched Game 6 with a bloody sock. He's not only the Cy Young, he's a hero.

[RoXer]

I wonder what I would do with all the money wasted on Russ Ortiz.

[RoXer]

I would have bought a hot air balloon.

[ct2k]

I've never been to an MLB game:'(

[BCWWF]

Fuck you the Miz, you are supposed to make a list including Barry Zito, Johan Santana, Scott Kazmir, even Mark Buerhle and Jeff Weaver.

Twins looked good again tonight against the sox (even though I only saw the recap). It's too bad, we are 20-10 at home and 10-24 on the road. If we were even 500 on the road, we would be about four games behind Detroit and right in the mix. I hope the Mauer, Morneau, Kubel revolution works out.

[RoXer]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060615/capt.9dd8aa3881894d35a2d8af9cee2f331c.giants_diamondbacks_baseball_azrd110.jpg


I am the princess of third base.

[Joey Slugs]

oh fucking sure, the night we get shit on by the Buck Showalters... Tampa Bay finally shows up to a game and beats Detroit. assholes.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah dunno why Schilling is on that list. He has been pitching pretty good but definetly not worthy of the Cy Young. Hopefully Papelbon gets it, that'd be sick.

Hearing Lets Go Red Sox chants in other teams ballparks is sick though, whether it is backwagon fans or not. I almost actaully went to these games but decided to get the Tampa Bay package instead because it was cheaper + I'd rather go to Florida

[Joey Slugs]

it's june 15th and you fuckers are talking about which pitcher is going to win the cy young?

wow.

[BCWWF]

ESPN is talking about it

[Joey Slugs]

Fuck ESPN

[BCWWF]

Quit whining and accept your role as the wild card, BITCH

[Joey Slugs]

Wild Card? Yeah, ok.

[Gertner]

Halladay is gonna win it

[Joey Slugs]

all of you fuckers are forgeting the best pitcher in the AL: Jose Contreras

[MVP]

Right now I'd either go with Mussina or Contreras.

[The Miz]

Contreras has missed too much time and Johan is better anyway. Johan has been the best pitcher in baseball for about 3 years now

[RoXer]

Loaiza arrested on suspicion of drunken driving
Story Tools:
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Associated Press
Posted: 1 hour ago



OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - Athletics pitcher Esteban Loaiza was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving after police clocked his Ferrari going more than 120 mph on a freeway near San Lorenzo.

Loaiza was pulled over at 3:30 a.m. Wednesday He was arrested on suspicion of reckless driving and driving under the influence after failing a sobriety test, California Highway Patrol spokesman Mike Wright said Thursday. The 34-year-old pitcher spent the night in jail before being released.
"We're aware of the incident and it's an ongoing legal matter," Oakland assistant GM David Forst said after the team's 7-2 victory over Seattle on Wednesday night. "We will have no further comment. We will let the legal proceedings play out."

Loaiza, 1-3 with a 6.89 ERA, was scheduled to start Thursday against the Mariners. It will be his second start since coming off the disabled list.

Loaiza signed a three-year, $21 million contract with the A's in November after playing with the Washington Nationals in 2005.




I USED TO LIVE IN SAN LORENZO :love:

[RoXer]

Oh and Bug Hurt is hurt again.

[The Miz]

Great, now the Mariners are going to get owned by a Mexican who is hungover and in jail last night

[Boomer]

The Braves are done. Not even a wild card.

They did, however, put Reitsma on the DL with a mystery injury. Didn't seem to help last night, though.

[The Miz]

Oh and Bug Hurt is hurt again.

He's supposed to be fine, they just put him there because they're going to be playing in NL parks and we won't play.

There is a rumor going around that Milton Bradley went insane in the clubhouse last night and started throwing things because he wasn't hitting, and hurt his shoulder. :|

[The Miz]

Red Sox get:
RP Javier Lopez (AAA)

White Sox get:
RP David Riske

White Sox win this one. Boston never really gave Riske a chance

[BCWWF]

The White Sox will need him in their quest for the wildcard.

[The Miz]

Reds get:
SS Juan Castro

Twins get:
OF Brandon Roberts (A)

Can't believe they actually got a real prospect for Castro. What the hell is Castro going to do on the Reds?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Red Sox get:
RP Javier Lopez (AAA)

White Sox get:
RP David Riske

White Sox win this one. Boston never really gave Riske a chance
I would have rather seen Seanez or Tavarez go but I can't really say I am upset to see Riske leave. These "veteran" pitchers the Red Sox picked up in the off season have been fucking awful.

Not like Javier Lopez is any better but maybe now this will mean one of the Pawtucket guys will stay put in the pen for the remainder of the season.

[Gertner]

i hope the jays pick up ortiz. he can't be any worse than Downs or Taubenheim

[BCWWF]

Didn't Ortiz sign for some giant amount in Arizona? What happens with that now? If say the Jays picked him up, do they have to pay him that same salary?

[Gertner]

i think they just pay minimum if i'm not mistaken

[The Miz]

Bringing in guys with 6+ ERA in the NL to the AL for the first time = bad idea. Maye you guys shouldn't have traded Gaudin for nothing, he's been much better than your other 5th starters.

[MVP]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 5th inning, 4-0 Twins. Red Sox have 3 runs so far this whole series!!

[MVP]

lol Ortiz hits a bomb between right and center field and it breaks a speaker and falls into the outfield and only counts as a single. The Metrodome is a joke.

[Boomer]

Don't worry. The Braves will make you look like World Series champs tomorrow.

[The Miz]

I hope Milton Bradley cleats Jeff Kent sliding into second base this weekend

[RoXer]

The Dbacks pay for the contract with Ortiz.



Which is why I said I would have rather bought a hot air ballon.

[Gertner]

jays take 3 of 4. and gaudin was awful for us

[The Miz]

He pitched 5 games for you, 3 starts. He was 22, what do you expect? The fact is he had a 3.35 ERA in 23 starts in AAA, and had dominated A and AA in the Devil Rays organization. You don't trade a guy like that because he has few crap ML starts, especially when he has the kind of stuff Gaudin does. He was a young pitcher with huge upside, but more importantly, he was pitching depth. You had two huge injury concerns in Burnett and Halladay, every team needs extra starting pitching but especially you guys. Now Burnett and Chacin are out and you have to rely on minor leaguers while Gaudin has been excellent in his set-up role in Oakland.

But hey, at least you got a 25-year old outfielder who is still in A-ball for him. Nice trade

[BCWWF]

When I was at the Twins/Red Sox game the other day, Ortiz hit a foul ball into an air vent, it was pretty sick. At least most of his rips stayed foul this week.

[Gertner]

o.k halladay got a ball hit off him so he's not a concern. Who cares what number gaudin put up in the minors.

[Gertner]

and gaudin is 0-2 with an era over 4 with 1 more strikeout than walk so don't give me that crap

[BCWWF]

I was just talking to my friend tonight about something that kind of ties into an attitude like Gertners. Last year, the Twins were just about .500 and within a shot of the wildcard, and myself and just about all other Twins fans were demanding Terry Ryan trade for a veteran. I wanted Ken Griffey Jr., for example. But now, I think about what the Twins would be like with Griffey, and it would just be a mess. Instead, they have three young players who are the future of the team, two amazing starting pitchers, a solid bullpen and a good chance to get back into the playoffs in the next two or so years.

Patience really does pay off. The Twins could have made more high profile signings in the offseason, but they didn't need to. They signed a few questionable vets, they played their role and now they are being released and the future steps in. It's not the best season in recent memory, but I would much rather rely on guys like Mauer, Morneau and Kubel than free agents.

The same thing basically happened with the A's. They let the core of their team go, Tejada, Dye, Hudson, Mulder etc., and let their young guys develop. Now, if not this year they should be a sure shot in the playoffs next year, and it's because they didn't get greedy and give up on prospects.

So if you want to go ahead and trade the future for average journeymen, go for it. I don't think anybody else in the AL East is going to notice.

[ct2k]

and gaudin is 0-2 with an era over 4 with 1 more strikeout than walk so don't give me that crap

Everybody has bad spells, fuck look at Dontrelle Willis, he's start to get it together recently but back in may he had an era over 6 and lost 6 straight decisions! A few of those were due to shitty Florida offense admitedly.

[The Miz]

Are you seriously judging a relief pitcher by win-loss? Bob Wickman was 0-4 last year and was one of the top 3 or 4 closers in the AL. Gaudin's ERA is not great, but many of the runs he gave up came early in the season when he either didn't have a defined role or was the mop-up guy. Since he became a set-up guy he has been great. And yes, he does have a problem walking too many guys. I'm not saying you traded away Francisco Liriano, but Gaudin is a young pitcher with excellent stuff and would have provided starting depth for you guys. He is unquestionably better than your #5 starters.

Do you really not care what guys minor league stats look like? Gee, why didn't you get the Toronto GM job instead of Riccardi?

[RoXer]

I think he does this purposely just to argue with us.

[Gertner]

Are you seriously judging a relief pitcher by win-loss? Bob Wickman was 0-4 last year and was one of the top 3 or 4 closers in the AL. Gaudin's ERA is not great, but many of the runs he gave up came early in the season when he either didn't have a defined role or was the mop-up guy. Since he became a set-up guy he has been great. And yes, he does have a problem walking too many guys. I'm not saying you traded away Francisco Liriano, but Gaudin is a young pitcher with excellent stuff and would have provided starting depth for you guys. He is unquestionably better than your #5 starters.

Do you really not care what guys minor league stats look like? Gee, why didn't you get the Toronto GM job instead of Riccardi?

HE"S GOT ONE MORE STIRKEOUT THAN WALK!!!!!!!!


so if a guy doesn't have a role he is allowed to give up runs? Please. He's garbage

[Gertner]

Everybody has bad spells, fuck look at Dontrelle Willis, he's start to get it together recently but back in may he had an era over 6 and lost 6 straight decisions! A few of those were due to shitty Florida offense admitedly.

dontrelle plays on the worst team in the majors

[The Miz]

age 23, 4.43 ERA, 20 H, 17 BB, 18 K, 22 IP, opponents hitting .233
age 23, 5.68 ERA, 24 H, 10 BB, 15 K, 19 IP, opponents hitting .308
age 30, 5.64 ERA, 26 H, 17 BB, 24 K, 30 IP, opponents hitting .234

Which set of stats do you like better? I'll take the first set, Gaudin's, over the 2 guys who have been Toronto's 5th starter. The point of my post was that you had a decent 5th starter and you traded him away for nothing. That's why you don't trade away pitching depth, you never know if Chacin will get injured and Towers will forget how to pitch.

If he's garbage than Downs and Taubenheim must be lower than whale shit. But if you want to continue to pretend that Gaudin sucks and you didn't lose that trade go ahead, it's not going to fix your rotation problems.

[OssMan]

dontrelle plays on the worst team in the majors3-6, 4.39

his team sucks though so it doesn't matter.

[Gertner]

scott downs is a better pitcher than chad gaudin

[The Miz]

lol, the 30-year-old with a career ERA over 5 mostly pitching in the National League? Go home

[Gertner]

Scott Dwons proved himself last year. Gaudin has never proved himself in teh bigs

[The Miz]

Maybe because he's 23 and was only drafted in 2001? When Gaudin is 30 lets see who the better pitcher is.

[The Miz]

I think Terrence Long is better than Lastings Milledge because Long has proven himself in the majors.

[Gertner]

I think Terrence Long is better than Lastings Milledge because Long has proven himself in the majors.

no you are sayign that Gaudin would be a better 5th starter RIGHT NOW, which he wouldn't be. he could barly get the ball over the plate here and he's doing the same for your A's

[RoXer]

Now, now, SURE Terrance Long might not have the greatest arm, but he could PROBABLY get it over the plate.

[The Miz]

I like how you pick and choose stats. Gaudin clearly has a walks problem, but he's fine in the other, more important categories. Less hits than innings, almost a K per inning, low batting avg. against, oh yeah, and HIS ERA IS OVER A FULL RUN LOWER THAN DOWNS'. I'll take Gaudin's walks problem over Downs giving-up-a-shit-load-of-runs problem.

Gaudin is a better pitcher in the short-term and in the long-term.

[Gertner]

taubenheim looked good tonight

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Lester with his first career win 2niiite :y: Papelbon also got his 21st save NIIICE

I am going to the Red Sox game on Monday, dunno who is gonna pitch, it was suppose to be Clement but he went on the DL. Gabe Kapler took his spot on the roster lol, Red Sox bench is in rough shape. This season started out great but as more and more shit piles on my feelings are getting worse and worse. They are still doing alright, they are right in the thick of things in the AL east race and there has been a lot of bright spots; Lowell has been doing well, Youkilis has been doing great and I don't even need to mention Papelbon. There has also been a lot of bad shit though; Coco isn't a lead off hitter at all, Loretta seems to be declining, Gonzo has great D but is batting about .200, Veritek has not been up to his usual self (I think he has a slight injury that isn't telling anyone about myself) and "Ortiz shift" has taken away about 30 hits from Ortiz (He is still putting up great stats even with that tho)

So while the Sky isn't falling, the season is not going as good as I hoped it would be right now, if nothing else, what I've seen from the young pitchers has been pretty encouraging. With the Red Sox payroll, and the farm system pumping out good young arms, the future looks pretty legit.

[Boomer]

I wouldn't call it nice. The Braves suck balls, remember?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

21 saves is 21 saves

[RoXer]

Speaking of sucking balls


The Arizona Diamondbacks

[The Miz]

Seattle Mariners is also an acceptable answer. I went to the game tonite, Bonds took Felix deep but watching him get K'd by Putz to end the game was worth the price of admission. Thank god we get to play NL teams the next couple weeks, might actually be able to pick up some W's.

[The Outlaw]

I wouldn't call it nice. The Braves suck balls, remember?

lol you speak the truth my friend.

July 1st, I am attending a game. Picked a perfect time too. :'(

[RoXer]

Hey Miz,

http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47203


Is that you?

[Boomer]

Yeah my friends and I were making plans to go so the BoSox this week, but I'm kinda glad we didn't.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wow...the Angels are retarded :|

With Bartolo Colon coming off the DL, they send down rookie phenom Jered Weaver (4-0, 1.37 ERA in nearly 30 innings) instead of bumping the worse Weaver into the bullpen and sending down a reliever</font>

[Gertner]

lol the friggen jays couldn't win an interleague game to save their life

[The Icon of Elisim]

They are gonna need to work on that for the World Series

[Supreme Olajuwon]

stupid White Sox

[Joey Slugs]

stupid White Sox

:lol:

[Boomer]

lol the friggen jays couldn't win an interleague game to save their life

Just wait. They play the Braves next week. Winning will come like clockwork.

[ct2k]

We get BoSox/Braves tonight in the UK, not seen Smoltzy pitch in a few years!

[Boomer]

He'll probably pitch decent, but I imagine that the BoSox get the win on a count of the Braves not being able to hit Schilling.

[Gertner]

jesus christ. twice in the 1st inning the jays had bases loaded. 0 Fucking runs

[Joey Slugs]

Welcome Back Mark Prior!

Final Stats:

3.2 IP
7 H
8 R
7 ER
1 BB
2 K
4 HR
17.18 ERA

[The Miz]

I was just about to make a joke about that. The savior of the Cubs season gets taken deep three times in the first inning

[Joey Slugs]

Jon Garland just went deep. :love:

[BCWWF]

Wow, I went running as the Twins were down 0-1 in the sixth, thinking it was another case of deaf bats on the road. Now I get home and we won 8-2! Oliver Perez must have actually been pitching decent, but the Twins are back at 500! Fuck you Cleveland, I knew we'd be better than you. Damn Detroit though, messing up out second place finish.

[OssMan]

haha at the yankees losing today and yesterday.

[Boomer]

I fucking hate the Atlanta Braves. I have watched almost 75% of these past 20 games.

6 fucking runs in the top of the 8th, after such a dramatic turn in the 7th. Unbelivable.

And I have never EVER heard boos at Turner Field. EVER.

[OssMan]

I fucking hate the Atlanta Braves.hey same

[RoXer]

Whos the guy who swings at every single pitch on the Braves?

[The Icon of Elisim]

Jeff Francouer?

[ct2k]

Yeah i thought that mighta just been Joe Morgan talking shit but the guy really did just swing at everything, he's trying to be Vlad Guerrero or something. To be fair he did dig that first base hit out from a pretty good pitch from Schilling, but still, his OBP is less than .300 :-\ Guy's gotta get some self control.

Also, were there really that many Sox fans in Turner Field?

[Boomer]

On Friday, they were out-cheering the Braves.

And Jeff Francouer will learn. 50+ RBIs isn't bad at all. Patience will make him a All-Star.

[Boomer]

If one would remember, my previous custom title was "I <3 Francouer". Until he learns some self control, he is on notice.

[BCWWF]

So what team is going to trade for Shannon Stewart?

[Boomer]

Miss June 2000?

[DaveWadding]

and Jason Grimsley's HGH Mystery Partner is...

David Segui??

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2489724

[The Miz]

There are lots of Sox "fans" at every ballpark the Sox go to, as soon as the Sox stop being good they will find a new team though. These same people were Yankees fans from 1998-2000

[ct2k]

Yeah you get glory supporters in every sport i guess, over here if you go to a Liverpool or Man Utd game you can expect to see as many fans from London and Birmingham as you can from liverpool or Manchester

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

displaced Red Sox fans (people once living in this area) that have moved on to other parts to the country have been known to force their children into being Red Sox fans (I've seen it happen haha) plus hands down the best colleges are all around here, so a lot of times fans move to other parts to the country after they graduate for jobs. So that contributes to it, but yeah I am sure there is a lot of glory supporters ontop of that.

I dunno why they would pick the Red Sox though, I mean they have been pretty good the last 4 or so seasons but they've only won the World Series once and still haven't won the AL East since 95. I definetly think there is still way more Yankee fans that have never even set foot in the state of New York.

[ct2k]

*raises hand*

To be fair i was born there and moved to Blighty at age like 2 1/2, and i support the Knicks too and i started following the Yanks before '98 so yknow, i get a pass:D

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Going to the Sox game 2niiiiiiiiiiite, KYLE SNYDER BABY 22.50 ERA

[ct2k]

Jesus thats nearly as bad as Mark Mulder

[ct2k]

ZING!

[BCWWF]

Yeah, there was a "Lets go Red Sox" chant at the Metrodome a few weeks ago when Johan was holding them to one run and 13 K's. It's rediculous and is really annoying in a way. Everytime I saw somebody in a Red Sox apparel, I reminded them that they aren't from Boston.

The reason the Sox are the big team though, is for a few reasons. The most legit, you can say that the 2004 World Championship team is the most famous team in a long time. They just had all the big players that year. The OK reason, they are billed as the anti-Yankees, which they really aren't. The bad reason, ESPN and everybody else markets the shit out of that rivalry. As soon as they won, you could buy a Red Sox hat anywhere you went.

[The Outlaw]

And I have never EVER heard boos at Turner Field. EVER.

Yeah well I have never heard the Red Sox cheered at Atlanta either, but obviously now that the Sox won a WS they are everywhere. Pretty ridiculous.

[MVP]

I'd rather have the Red Sox get booed everywhere but Fenway. That way it feels even better when we sweep a team like Atlanta and they're all pissed off about it.

The whole Red Sox Nation thing is just a fad anyway. After the White Sox won the World Series last year I saw people wearing White Sox hats, and before that I had never seen anyone wear one before. Casual fans like teams that win, and they LOVE the underdog, and like BCWWF said, the Red Sox were always marketed as the "Anti-Yankees", or underdogs to the evil empire so everyone just jumped the bandwagon.

[The Miz]

People jump on the Red Sox bandwagon because ESPN tells them that the Red Sox are the good guys and the Yankees are a bunch of no-good roidheads who only care about money. In reality the Yankees and Red Sox are the exact same team; but Ortiz and Ramirez didn't get busted with their roids, Sheffield and Giambi did. It doesn't help that they got their roids from the same guy Barry Bonds did. Damon and Millar come off as nice, down-to-earth guys, Rodriguez and Sheffield just kinda seem like jerks. Schilling is an asshole, but anybody who performs well with any injury, no matter how mysterious, is viewed as a hero. The Red Sox are guilty of everything the Yankees are blasted for (buying all the best players, steroids, dickhead players) but the Red Sox let their players grow beards and are more identifiable with people who watch baseball.

The Red Sox Nation will be gone in 2-3 years. If they continue to win championships, people will get tired of them winning just like they got tired of the Yankees winning. Just like they got tired of the Lakers winning. If they don't win anymore championships, Manny, Ortiz, and Schilling will all be gone soon enough and the face of the team will be completely gone. It won't be long before a new bandwagon starts with a new team.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

BINGO BANGO BONGOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Manny goes yard and the Red Sox finally win a game I am attending...didn't get to see Papelbon pitch tho :mad:

Everyone can say Red Sox Nation is ridiculous/full of bandwagon fans etc but it doesnt really bother me. Red Sox are a pretty cool team that obviously a lot of people like, so blame ESPN for showing stuff that people watch. Fucking ESPN, only the most succesful sports network in the US, showing shit that a lot of people actaully watch? What a bunch of assholes. Only thing that pisses me off about the whole Red Sox huge popularity is the fact that you cannot get good seats at Fenway Park unless you are willing to sell out some serious cash. Makes it tough for the real fans to get seats, but outside of that having tons of Red Sox all over America is pretty hilarious. Imagine being a player for the Braves and hearing "A Let's go Red Sox chant" - why don't the Braves fan pipe up and drown it out?

[The Miz]

I'm sure ESPN's pocketbook would take a huge hit if they stopped showing 3 Red Sox games per week

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

The Red Sox do have a really high payroll, but I don't really think they are the same exact thing as the New York Yankees. Who have they really "bought"..Manny and Schilling.

Schilling makes 12.75mil and Manny makes 20mil Ortiz is making something like 5.5mil right now but he will be making 13mil next season (but I dunno if you can say the Red Sox "bought" Ortiz, he was pretty much not wanted by Minnesota and became the most clutch hitter in baseball while a member of the Red Sox) Jason Veritek makes 10mil (wasn't bought either though) a year but outside of that the rest of the money isn't really ridiculously high per player.

If you look at the Yankees, they have a ton of players making over 10mil+ (A lot right aroud or over 15mil as well) While some of those players where brought up through the minors, a large majority of them where taken from other teams. The Yankees 2006 payroll is about 70mil more than the Red Sox, so I'd have to disagree that they are the same exact thing as the Yankees. Actually I guess they are the same exact thing though, because Manny and Ortiz are both guilty of taking steriods apparently.

Even with that said, I really don't care about the Yankees paying tons of money to players, if you got it why not spend it? Is it their fault for making so much money? Same goes for any other teams with high payrolls, people are gonna hate on them because they can pay players. If Major League baseball isn't going to impliment a salary cap then allow the teams to spend all the money they want, and let the small market fans cry. Dunno why these teams should be penalized for having money, its not like they are breaking any salary cap rules or something.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I'm sure ESPN's pocketbook would take a huge hit if they stopped showing 3 Red Sox games per week
Red Sox have one game on ESPN in the month of July

[The Miz]

he was pretty much not wanted by Minnesota and became the most clutch hitter in baseball while a member of the Red Sox

LMAO

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

He went from hitting 20 homeruns in 2002 as a member of the Twins, as far as I know the Twins weren't too interested in keeping him? Then he moved onto the Red Sox where he hit 31 in 2003, 41 in 2004 then 47 in 2005. He is the most clutch hitter in baseball, so while the timing of the comment was somewhat funny (I'll admit I just put that in there to say he was the most clutch hitter, probably wasn't really needed) it is still true.

But you can just ignore the rest of the shit I said because you saw something that was funny.

[The Miz]

Its not true, because clutch hitters don't exist

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Uhh dunno how you figure that

I guess its just a cowincidence he hits walk off after walk off homerun

[The Miz]

I would like to hear your definition of what a clutch hitter is, and how Ortiz magically gained this clutch hitting ability after he put on a Red Sox uniform

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

LOL Magically gained

There was no magic involded, he just simply did not get big hits in big situations while playing for Minnesota, he was a platoon first baseman that was released in the off season.

Since he has been a member of the Red Sox he his hit numerous walk off homeruns(5) or drove in the winning (or tieing) run a shitload of times late in the game. To me, that is clutch but I guess it is just a cowincidence he gets all those hits in key situations.

Take a look at the 2004 post season; 19 RBI's (tied a record), Walk off in the bottom of the 10th againest the Angels in Game 3, Walk off againest the Yankees in game 4 in the 12th and got the game winning hit 14th inning with a walk off single in game 5 (after a 10 pitch at bat)

That wasn't the point of original post at all though, my point was why should teams that have money not use it? How it is a bad thing that teams have high payrolls, is it there fault for being succesful financially?

[BCWWF]

To be fair, I think the Red Sox probably have a much better hitting coach than the Twins, a safer lineup and an easier park to get a big hit. He was always a talented hitter in Minnesota, but he was nothing special at all, which is why we the Twins didn't even offer him a contract and nobody second guessed the decision.

[The Miz]

For all we know David DeJesus is the most clutch hitter in baseball but the Royals haven't played in a meaningful game in 3 years. As the Red Sox #3 hitter Ortiz has more opportunites than anyone in baseball to get a big hit and he's gotten alot of them. But that doesn't make him a clutch hitter. Why did he go 2-21 in the 2003 ALDS? Did he forget how to, uh, clutch hit? Are walk-off home runs and RBI's how you measure clutch hitting? I'd say the guy leading off the 9th inning of a tie or 1-run game is in just as much, if not more, of a clutch situation than the guy who knocks in the walk-off run. There is too much of a grey area there, and no one has any idea how to truly measure clutch hitting. Keep listening to NESN though.

That wasn't the point of original post at all though, my point was why should teams that have money not use it? How it is a bad thing that teams have high payrolls, is it there fault for being succesful financially?

Your post had nothing to do with mine so I played your game. I said nothing about the Yankees and Red Sox being big meanies for spending all the money they have. If I was Steinbrenner or Henry I would do the same thing (except maybe go after pitchers younger than 60). The point of my post was that the Yankees and Red Sox play the same game, the game the other 28 teams cannot play but the media makes the Yankees out to be the bad guys and the Red Sox the good guys. And its easy to see why, why would a casual baseball fan root for ARod, Sheffield, and Giambi when Ortiz, Ramirez, and Damon are much cooler, more likeable guys? And there's been no proof than any Red Sox player use steroids, although there are some, because it's becoming more obvious with each new scandal that all 30 teams have a ton of players using steroids. It might be Manny and Ortiz, it might be Doug Mirabelli and Alex Cora. But 2 of the Yankees best sluggers have been proven to be on a ton of steroids, obtained from the same source that the most hateable player in the game gets his. But at the end of the day:

The Yankees have players who use steroids. The Red Sox have players who use steroids.
The Yankees players are severly overpaid. The Red Sox players are severly overpaid.
The Yankees have players who are giant assholes. The Red Sox have players who are giant assholes.

You can argue the finer points of that with more detail if you like, but the three main reasons people hate the Yankees, the Red Sox are guilty of.

[The Miz]

Royals get:
OF Joey Gathright

Devil Rays get:
SP J.P. Howell (AAA)
2B Fernando Cortez (AAA)

lol stupid fucking Royals. They give up on their #1 pick from a few years back for a guy who sucks at every aspect of baseball except running. Howell probably isn't going to amount to much but Gathright has proven he's shit.

[The Miz]

More importantly it means the DRays likely won't trade Crawford. SUCK IT ANGELS

[The Miz]

triple post

[The Miz]

triple post

[McLegend]

Ryan Howard just hit a upper upper deck home run.

It was insane.

[BCWWF]

My St. Louis friends thought they were getting Crawford, then they thought they were getting Cabrera. I hate St. Louis.

[OssMan]

Ryan Howard just hit a upper upper deck home run.

It was insane.Well considering the upper deck in Philadelphia is about 390 feet from home plate, it's not that big of a deal

[OssMan]

I did not see the home run though, for all I know it could have been to the deepest part of the park

[McLegend]

It was 461 feet

[Gertner]

christ, jays finally win a damn game

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

For all we know David DeJesus is the most clutch hitter in baseball but the Royals haven't played in a meaningful game in 3 years.
He might be or he might not be but Ortiz IS, in my opinon anyway, the most clutch hitter in baseball. So while we can rag on guys for not showing up in big situations, we can't give people props for doing so on a regular basis?

As the Red Sox #3 hitter Ortiz has more opportunites than anyone in baseball to get a big hit and he's gotten alot of them. But that doesn't make him a clutch hitter. Why did he go 2-21 in the 2003 ALDS? Did he forget how to, uh, clutch hit?
He's given more chances in the playoffs, alright I'll give you that, but there is plenty of close games played every single day between teams that are not nearly as good as the Red Sox. Just becuase the Red Sox are a good team (Well before the season everyone was quick to tell me how bad they where) I don't see how that should take away from Ortiz coming up big in late game situations.

As for the White Sox thing, true he had a rough series againest them but so didn't just about everyone else. I don't he forgot to "uh, clutch hit" I think he just got shut down by some really good pitching. It's baseball, it happens. So while that series leaves the door open for debate, I still feel he is the most clutch hitter in baseball.

Are walk-off home runs and RBI's how you measure clutch hitting? I'd say the guy leading off the 9th inning of a tie or 1-run game is in just as much, if not more, of a clutch situation than the guy who knocks in the walk-off run.
I dunno about "if not more" but yes I'd agree that if a guy would continually get hits in the 9th innings of 1 run games, I'd call that player clutch. Name a guy that has done this regularly, like Ortiz has done the past few season and I'll agree and say he is clutch.

There is too much of a grey area there, and no one has any idea how to truly measure clutch hitting.
I personally don't see the grey area, if you come up big in big situations on a regular basis I'd say you where a pretty clutch player. I guess the only grey area could be defining what a "big" situation was but I feel that you can be clutch in the early innings as well, say if you have great success with the bases loaded or get a lot of 2 out RBIs. To me, that is clutch. I could have sworn me and you both where trying to tell VEL how Manny Ramirez was a clutch hitter because of his success with the bases load (and other things as well) while VEL was trying to say he wasn't, since he couldn't remember the last time Manny got a game winning/tieing hit past the seventh inning.

Keep listening to NESN though.
lol Pretty funny how I just brought up VEL. Sounds like you got that one outta VEL's book of comedy. I got a question though, have you ever even watched NESN? I know you have MLB TV and probably have seen some of their broadcasts of games but I dunno if those show pre-game/post-game shows as well. Because if you actaully watched it, you'd see that your "hilarious comment" really didn't make too much sense since NESN's shows are not about sucking Red Sox dick

The Yankees have players who use steroids. The Red Sox have players who use steroids.
Well I guess with every team you could say this, so yeah I am sure there is guys on the Red Sox using 'roids (I've always suspected Nixon and Kapler personally) but with all the shit that is flying around nowadays you'd need to hate every single team in baseball if you hate the Yankees because of steriods.

The Yankees players are severly overpaid. The Red Sox players are severly overpaid.
I think what bothers some people is that the Yankees payroll is somewhere like 74mil more than that of the number 2 team (The Red Sox) while the distance between the Red Sox and the Angels (number 3 team) is 17mil. Half the teams in the major leagues have a payroll that is less than 74 millon. People look at the Red Sox and say wow that is ridiculous, but then look at the Yankees and say WOW that is really ridiculous. Eitherway though, I still think way more people like the Yankees. Also some people are stupid and don't realize the Red Sox also have a really high salary, so I guess I really dunno why people outside of Boston like the Red Sox. I dunno where all these Red Sox fans are though, because it seems like everyone on TPWW outside of posters from the Boston area hate them.

Didn't mean to write a book here, but I could talk about the Red Sox for days

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Why would the Royals trade prospects?

[BCWWF]

I may be a bit biased, but Thursday's matchup between Francisco Lariano and Roger Clemons should be as good a game as any this baseball season. The MLB not only gets to market the best pitcher in this generation, but he is going against a 22-year old who almost warrants All Star consideration this season.

The reason I bring this up is because people always say "Well what else is going on that is more important than the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry?" This is something big coming up, hopefully it goes right.

[Joey Slugs]

20-6 whitewash last night... and I was there.

by the way guys... there is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

[The Miz]

You miss the point Stima. There is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

From ESPN.com

ORTIZ CAREER: .307/.385/.577/.962

Close and Late
2006: .216/.275/.595/.870
2005: .346/.447/.846/1.293
2004: .324/.380/.634/1.014
2003: .306/.390/.681/1.071

Runners in Scoring Position
2006: .277/.382/.494/.876
2005: .352/.462/.580/1.042
2004: .355/.431/.594/1.025
2003: .273/.368/.482/.850

Runners on:
2006: .287/.367/.545/.912
2005: .315/.425/.581/1.006
2004: .322/.411/.616/1.027
2003: .286/.384/.518/.902

Postseason series w/ Red Sox
.095/.174/.143
.269/.367/.538
.545/.688/1.000
.387/.457/.742
.308/.471/.615
.333/.333/.750

So what do these numbers tell us? Absolutely fucking nothing. You'd think someone who is the most clutch hitter in baseball would be a little more consistent. I'm not saying these numbers are bad, because for the most part they're excellent, because Ortiz is a great hitter. But these numbers are also incredibly inconsistent. The reason for that is the situation changes nothing. Clutch hitting is NOT a skill. Ortiz doesn't think, "Wow, there are runners on and its the 9th inning, I better quit screwing around and actually try now". There is nothing he does differently, he just hits like he always has. And he's an amazing hitter. But he isn't a clutch hitter and neither is anyone else in the history of this game. If a guy goes 2-23 in a postseason series (like Ortiz did in 2003 vs. the A's), he isn't a choker. He just happened to hit a cold stretch in those 23 random at-bats. All of the elite hitters in baseball will go stretches of 23 at-bats with 2, or less, hits.

If Ortiz had 6,195 at-bats with RISP, or with runners on, or in close and late situations, the numbers would extremely close to his career averages of .307/.385/.577. Because it's all about sample size. The more at-bats he has in those situations the more things will start to even out. Ortiz is incredibly lucky in that he plays on a team that gets more national coverage than any other, he hits #3 on that team, and the #4 hitter is one of the most feared hitters in baseball, assuring he will see strikes.

The game against the Rangers a few weeks back is a perfect example. Nixon and Crisp's at-bats are just as clutch as Ortiz'. Without them, Ortiz doesn't get a chance to be the hero. What would have happened if they didn't come through?

Nixon grounds out
Crisp flies out
Ortiz homers, score is now 4-3 Texas
Ramirez strikes out, game over

But what really happened:
Nixon singles
Crisp singles
Ortiz homers, Red Sox win 5-4, OMG PAPI IS SO CLUTCH!!!

It was because of Nixon and Crisp that we get to remember this amazingly clutch home run. How many guys do you think solo home runs in the 9th inning that don't mean anything? A bunch, but they would mean something if the guys before them had come through in the clutch.

Clutch hitting definately exists. A walk-off home run is a clutch hit. A base hit to tie the game is a clutch hit. But there are no such thing as clutch hitters, because in the end it's all random. You sarcastically and hilariously made fun of me by saying "I guess it's all just a coincidence", but what's actually funny it that you're completely right. This isn't basketball, there's no Big Shot Bobs. Over the years, Papi's at bats in these situations will go up and his numbers will go down, always getting closer to his career averages. Brilliant sabermatricians and other baseball minds have been trying for at least 25 years to prove clutch hitters exist. They can't, because they don't.

[RoXer]

Shut up you pieces of shit. Fucking fags.

[RoXer]

White Sox's Guillen uses homosexual slur
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FOXSports.com
Posted: 1 hour ago



Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen recently used a homosexual slur to describe a Chicago Sun-Times columnist.

The newspaper published a column Wednesday, and it ripped the outspoken skipper for his angry outburst directed at Jay Mariotti, who was covering Game 6 of the NBA Finals and obviously was not around to hear the comments prior to the White Sox's blowout victory over the Cardinals on Tuesday night.
"What a piece of (expletive) he is, (expletive) fag,'' Guillen said.

Guillen was given a chance to explain himself after the game.

"I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country,'' he said.

According to the Sun-Times Guillen explained that in his native Venezuela, the word in question is not used to describe a person's sexuality, rather his courage.

Guillen apparently said Mariotti "is not man enough to meet me and (talk about things before writing.)"

As you might expect, the White Sox were quick to apologize for the remark, which the defensive Guillen used in response to a Mariotti column about how the club dealt with rookie pitcher Sean Tracey after he recently refused to throw at the Rangers' Hank Blalock.

The White Sox claim — again according to the Sun-Times — they are "working with" Guillen on how he speaks publicly.

But it seems clear that Guillen has a developing penchant for talking inappropriately.

The Sun-Times points out that Guillen ripped into a Venezuelan reporter earlier this year for claiming that White Sox's pitcher Freddy Garcia had failed a marijuana test during the World Baseball Classic.

"It's a good thing that happened to Freddy and not to Ozzie Guillen because that man's going to be in big trouble,'' Guillen reportedly said. ''I will fly to Venezuela and kick his (backside) ... In Venezuela, we don't care. We take care of (stuff) by hitting people."

In New York last season, Guillen referred to someone as a homosexual and a child molester.

[The Miz]

Guillen also told Couch that he has ga</B>y friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Ga</B>y Games in Chicago.


LMFAO

[The Miz]

Red Sox get:
SP Jason Johnson
cash

Indians get:
PTBNL

----

What the fuck is Epstein smoking? Jason Johnson? 5.96 ERA? Career 4.88 ERA, 5.48 after the All-Star break? I refuse to believe there's nobody in that organization better than this loser. A $2.2 M loser at that

[Gertner]

lol the first thing that came to my mind was "thank god the jays didn't get him." cause he was rumoured over here

[ct2k]

You miss the point Stima. There is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

From ESPN.com

ORTIZ CAREER: .307/.385/.577/.962

Close and Late
2006: .216/.275/.595/.870
2005: .346/.447/.846/1.293
2004: .324/.380/.634/1.014
2003: .306/.390/.681/1.071

Runners in Scoring Position
2006: .277/.382/.494/.876
2005: .352/.462/.580/1.042
2004: .355/.431/.594/1.025
2003: .273/.368/.482/.850

Runners on:
2006: .287/.367/.545/.912
2005: .315/.425/.581/1.006
2004: .322/.411/.616/1.027
2003: .286/.384/.518/.902

Postseason series w/ Red Sox
.095/.174/.143
.269/.367/.538
.545/.688/1.000
.387/.457/.742
.308/.471/.615
.333/.333/.750

So what do these numbers tell us?

They show some consistency in that his numbers are higher in almost every catagory during 2004 and 2005 seasons, including with runners on etc. So basically when Ortiz is on fire, he's on fire in all situations overall, when he's human he's human in all situations overall.

[FakeLaser]

Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.


LMFAO
lol

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Okay, Ortiz isn't a clutch hitter. He is just a guy that comes up with clutch hit after clutch hit.


LOL@calling somebody a fucking faggot in the paper...that's awesome.

[Joey Slugs]

30 runs in 11 innings. Good god.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Jose Reyes just hit for the cycle</font> :love:

[The Miz]

OMG A CYCLE! HOW EXCITING! That's like... every kind of hit!!!!!!!

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>God, Wagner has to be one of the most overrated closers in baseball</font>

[OssMan]

YEAH WAGNER

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Though to be fair, Wagner shouldn't have even had to close the game tonight. Facing a pitcher with an ERA over 8, and such abyssmal hitting with RISP most of the game.

Thankfully, the Yankees won again so it's still a 9.5 lead.

Even if they win tomorrow, it's a losing homestand. A win puts them 10 games ahead of the Phils. They need to get their shit back together, especially with a brutal road trip coming up (3 in Toronto, 3 in Boston, 3 in the Bronx).

[BCWWF]

The Miz, would you agree that there are players who are not clutch? Because while your points make a certain amount of sense, it seems like there is the anti-clutch, a player who simply can not come through in clutch situations.

Just because the only area that I disagree with you guys is, there is definately a different feeling or pressure when you come up in the ninth with man on second and two outs. I think that if you come up in those type of opportunities often and consistantly come through, you can be considered a clutch hitter. I'll probably have to rephrase this later but I'll see how you respond first.

[BCWWF]

Double post (and I pushed 'reply' about five hours ago)

[MVP]

I consider clutch hitting opportunities a test of the ability to perform under pressure, of which all professional athletes should be capable. Sure Ortiz is often times given the opportunity to score walk-off runs, but I see that simply as coming through in tough situations where clutch hitting is necessary. Any athlete is capable of doing that. So I'm gonna agree with the argument that there are no "clutch hitters" because games shouldn't (and most often times do not) come down to one "clutch" hitter just because he's performed well in clutch situations in the past. It comes down to any player, and if that player performs a clutch hit then he's doing what any professional athlete should be able to do.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Does this feeling go for every other sport or just baseball? And if it just goes for baseball, why is baseball different?

Kinda seems like saying Michael Jordan wasn't clutch, he was just a good player all the time so he was able to be good at the end of the game. Samething would go for Adam Venateri as well, or Tom Brady. There are just good players that where succesfull a lot so they were succesfull many times in clutch positions - isn't that the definition of being a clutch player?

What it comes down to is a order of words really, "Player A is a clutch hitter" or "Player A is always a good hitter, and in clutch situations, he continues to do well"

[ct2k]

Reggie Miller had his clutch moments...bastard:mad:

[BCWWF]

I'm kind of agreeing with Stima. There is no doubt that there is more pressure at certain moments of the game. Some players can hit well in pressure situations and some simply can't. Unless you are calling pressure situations and clutch situations different, I think you can be a "clutch hitter" if you consistantly do what you are supposed to when given the opportunity. Maybe David Ortiz has similar stats in pressure situations as he does in normal situations, but the fact of the matter is that most players do not have the same consistancy in those situations as they do in the second inning.

[The Miz]

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.

[Joey Slugs]

1/2 game back.

after beating the shit out of st. louis, we now have to root them on. funny how this game works.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.
Shawn Green

Nah but seriously that is a good point, it is tough to come with a hitter that CANNOT hit in a clutch situation. It just seems to me that Ortiz does this a lot more often than others, so while he might be a career .307 hitter then also a career .306 hitter with a runner on base playing in an away park while down two runs during a night game, I just seem to remember so many situations where Ortiz has delievered in the clutch. As compared to other hitters doing this, I just don't see it.

Now this clutch thing can carry over to any other sport though. If you feel there is no such thing as clutch hitters, there must not be any clutch performers in any other sports right?

[RoXer]

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.
Terrence Long...:|

[BCWWF]

Emphasizing the word "can't" is a VEL tactic. It is rediculous to think that all players react the same under pressure because it simply isn't like that. Some players thrive under it and might bat slightly better than they normally do. Other batters might struggle to put the ball into play when the pressure is on.

It's the same with pitchers. Joe Nathan is one of the top closers in the league when he is under the pressure of a save situation. But if he is not pitching in a save situation, his ERA is drastically higher. Or are batters the only ones that this rule of "clutch" refers to?

By saying that players react the same while batting in the bottom of the ninth, down by one in the World Series, as they do in the fourth inning of a blowout against Kansas City midseason. David Ortiz has had numerous opportunities to make clutch hits, and he has a lot of success late in games. A lot of other players have had opportunities to make clutch hits and don't have as much overall success.

Do you really believe that if you looked at a random sample of regular major leaguers that their stats would be similar in all of those different situations like Ortiz is? Why do you think they have stats like "AVG w/ RISP" or "w/ bases loaded"? It is because there is more pressure there, and not all players react the same.

[BCWWF]

By the way, Lariano.

[RoXer]

I'm not sure about his contract deal, but I think Craig Wilson would be a good fit at 1B for the A's.

[RoXer]

LOL, I haven't seen this


Jun 23 Cabrera drove in the winning run Thursday in the 10th inning on an attempted intentional walk.
Recommendation: You read that correctly -- with Hanley Ramirez on second base Baltimore's Todd Williams tried to issue Cabrera an intentional walk, but the Marlin slugger reached out and punched his first offering into center field to bring Ramirez home. Cabrera gets plenty of credit for his incredible skills at the plate, but not enough for his baseball instincts.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Hanley Ramirez :(

[OssMan]

Yeah when they tried to intentionally walk him Ramon Hernandez just stepped like one step away from the plate and Cabrera didn't really have to do much

[The Outlaw]

It was like a freaking softball pitch. Pretty hilarious.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Beckett 8 IP 2 ER and Manny had his 46th multi-homerun game of his career

If Beckett could just pitch like that all the time I'd feel a lot better about the Red Sox. If he continues being inconsistant though really don't see the Red Sox as a contender for the World Series.

[MVP]

Yeah that, and Wakefield's run support have gotta be consistant if there's any chance at a World Series.

[BCWWF]

I just googled Francisco Lariano (sic) by accident, and this is the first result I found...It is a message board for the Reds, the topic is about how they just signed Miz's favorite Scott Hatteberg, this is the response.

Great move by the Reds. Now we can trade Dunn to the Twins
fo a young starting pitcher with outstaning potential ((Francisco Lariano) and a new closer (Jesse Crain).

See ya see ya bye bye, was that you Supreme?

[BCWWF]

This is the real reason I was googling Liriano though...He must not have enough decisions to be on the AL stat leaders lists, but this is where he is right now.

7-1 Record (has won six of seven times he started)
2.17 ERA (AL leading ERA is Santana at 2.75)
74 Strikeouts (No. 13 in AL after seven starts, everybody above him has at least 15. To be fair, since he came out of the pen initially, he has 66 IP, the next lowest is Ted Lilly at 84.2, the highest is Santana at 111.1)
19 Walks (meh)
1.06 WHIP (If eligable, would be tied for third in the AL with Curt Schilling)

He has got to be making a decent case for the All Star game. I know I am a homer, but it is kind of rediculous how little attention he is getting even after pitching 8 innings with 2 earned runs on national TV in a packed Minute Maid park the other night.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wow, C.P. Bucknor is a moron</font>

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah 2.17 ERA should get him on the team you'd think

[BCWWF]

Jon Garland played a pretty big role in the White Sox last year though, so probably not...:|

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

hahah ORTIZ GOES YARD IN THE 10th

BINGO BANGO BONGOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ct2k]

LOL, I haven't seen this


Jun 23 Cabrera drove in the winning run Thursday in the 10th inning on an attempted intentional walk.
Recommendation: You read that correctly -- with Hanley Ramirez on second base Baltimore's Todd Williams tried to issue Cabrera an intentional walk, but the Marlin slugger reached out and punched his first offering into center field to bring Ramirez home. Cabrera gets plenty of credit for his incredible skills at the plate, but not enough for his baseball instincts.

Didn't Joe DiMaggio do that when someone tried to walk him during the streak?

[BCWWF]

He is just consistant in extra innings is all

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Red Sox Bullpen with 4 scoreless innings with no sightings of Rudy Seanez or Taverez...WEIRD

Papelbon with 4 K's - His ERA is now .24

What a fucking game

[The Outlaw]

Liriano isn't getting attention? I've been seeing him all over ESPN, labeled the next big thing, the best young pitcher, etc. etc.

I picked him up in my league. :cool:

[BCWWF]

I dunno, I'm probably just looking at the wrong places. It just seems like every place that had something about that game focused on the Astros, Clemons and their wildcard race and not much else.

[The Miz]

Does this feeling go for every other sport or just baseball? And if it just goes for baseball, why is baseball different?

Kinda seems like saying Michael Jordan wasn't clutch, he was just a good player all the time so he was able to be good at the end of the game. Samething would go for Adam Venateri as well, or Tom Brady. There are just good players that where succesfull a lot so they were succesfull many times in clutch positions - isn't that the definition of being a clutch player?

What it comes down to is a order of words really, "Player A is a clutch hitter" or "Player A is always a good hitter, and in clutch situations, he continues to do well"

I think basketball is different because you can always pass up the shot if you don't want it. In baseball if you're up, then you're up. Michael Jordan was the best player on every team he ever played on, so the last play was always designed for him. Jordan missed hundreds of "clutch" shots in his career but we only remember Jordan over Ehlo and the no-call offensive foul against the Jazz in '98. Jordan is at least one of the 3 greatest players of all time so obviously he is going to have lots of clutch shots. Just like Ortiz has made lots of outs when a hit would have tied/won the game but we only remember the walk-offs.

I disagree with clutch hitting because it's supposed to be a skill, like power hitting or contact hitting or bunting. How can you be skilled at clutch hitting? Most commentators will tell you a "clutch player" like Ortiz or Jeter can "elevate their game" when it's crunch time but I think that's such BS. If Ortiz can hit .400 in the clutch why doesn't he do it all the time? Does he not care unless it's the ninth inning?

[The Miz]

Emphasizing the word "can't" is a VEL tactic. It is rediculous to think that all players react the same under pressure because it simply isn't like that. Some players thrive under it and might bat slightly better than they normally do. Other batters might struggle to put the ball into play when the pressure is on.

It's the same with pitchers. Joe Nathan is one of the top closers in the league when he is under the pressure of a save situation. But if he is not pitching in a save situation, his ERA is drastically higher. Or are batters the only ones that this rule of "clutch" refers to?

By saying that players react the same while batting in the bottom of the ninth, down by one in the World Series, as they do in the fourth inning of a blowout against Kansas City midseason. David Ortiz has had numerous opportunities to make clutch hits, and he has a lot of success late in games. A lot of other players have had opportunities to make clutch hits and don't have as much overall success.

Do you really believe that if you looked at a random sample of regular major leaguers that their stats would be similar in all of those different situations like Ortiz is? Why do you think they have stats like "AVG w/ RISP" or "w/ bases loaded"? It is because there is more pressure there, and not all players react the same.

Again, sample size. I don't have Nathan's splits but I assume because he's a closer 95% of his appearances come in save situations. If a guy has a 2.00 ERA in 60 innings and a 4.00 in 10 innings there is nothing you can draw from that.

The reason it's harder to hit in the 9th inning of the World Series is 1. their best pitcher is on the mound 2. he is not going to fuck around. If it's a 4 or 5 run lead the pitcher might just be trying to throw strikes and not risk walking people, and it may be easier to hit. But in the 9th of a World Series its their best with his best.

I don't think that if you took every players stats in different situations they would be the same, because the sample sizes would not be the same. But if every player in baseball had 1000 AB's in every possible situation I guarantee you there would be no players who hit SIGNIFICANTLY better or worse.

Every player has better stats with the bases loaded. The infield is in and you know they are not going to walk you. The reason they have stats like BA w/RISP and w/bases loaded is the same reason the first stat for batters is batting average and the first stat for pitchers in win/loss--MLB refuses to move on to stats that are more accurate after all the research that has been done since the late 70's.

[The Miz]

I'm not sure about his contract deal, but I think Craig Wilson would be a good fit at 1B for the A's.

The market for Wilson is huge right now and the A's have no prospects to offer anyway. And DJ has been doing pretty awesome for about a month now. Over 1.000 OPS and hitting like .370 in June. And if DJ starts to suck again they can always put Swisher at first and an outfield of Bradley/Kotsay/Kielty isn't too bad. If only Payton would fuck off and die. :mad:

[OssMan]

Didn't Joe DiMaggio do that when someone tried to walk him during the streak?I dunno but my grandpa was a Giants fan when they played in NY and he said that he saw Willy Mays do it

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I think basketball is different because you can always pass up the shot if you don't want it. In baseball if you're up, then you're up. Michael Jordan was the best player on every team he ever played on, so the last play was always designed for him. Jordan missed hundreds of "clutch" shots in his career but we only remember Jordan over Ehlo and the no-call offensive foul against the Jazz in '98. Jordan is at least one of the 3 greatest players of all time so obviously he is going to have lots of clutch shots. Just like Ortiz has made lots of outs when a hit would have tied/won the game but we only remember the walk-offs.Hmm good point about the basketball thing, football though. Their is only one kicker per team, so at the end of the game it all comes down to one guy. So you could use this logic and say that a kicker is just a good kicker, so if he hits like 88% of his kicks - he has to miss 12% of them. It could just so happen that one of those 12% where at the last second with time left on the clock.

Vanderjak would probably like that theory, since he would still be on the Colts (Now instead, they get one of the best clutch kickers of all time - but again is he clutch? Or is he just a good kicker kicking a field goal with no time left)

All I know is, if its tied up in the bottom of 9th, 10th, 11th, etc I want Ortiz up at a bat over any other career .300 hitter.

[OssMan]

HAHA there is this guy with an airhorn at the Bluejays game blowing it as every pitch is thrown, LL Cool G or YOUR Hero are you seeing this

[RoXer]

I just don't want him going to the Angels, which I've heard rumors of.

[DaveWadding]

HE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/john_donovan/08/25/five.spoilers/t1_lee.jpg

:love: :love: :love:

...Leave me alone :( This is as happy as i'll be for the rest of the year. :(

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeahhhhhh got tickets to tomorrow's Red Sox game since todays got rained out and the person who had them has to work tomorrow

[The Miz]

I just don't want him going to the Angels, which I've heard rumors of.

I could see it happening, because the Angels have the best prospects to offer, but its doubtful because I think they're not far away from giving up on the season. They might wanna start grooming their young guys instead of trading them. I expect half the roster to be gone by next year. Get ready for a new generation of extremely annoying unlikeable Angel players

[The Miz]

Big Sexy 5-5, 2 HR. Big second half in store

[Joey Slugs]

HE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/john_donovan/08/25/five.spoilers/t1_lee.jpg

:love: :love: :love:

...Leave me alone :( This is as happy as i'll be for the rest of the year. :(

I'm going to let you have your moment.

[Joey Slugs]

another fucking grand slam to tie a game against the 'stros.

chad qualls must be thinking... "atleast it wasn't me again"

[BCWWF]

GOD DAMNIT

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

woooooooooow anyone check the stats on that Red Sox game today? I was there, fucking unbeleviable


In extra's Youk hit a wall ball double to score Coco Crisp to tie it in the 12th after Delcaremen's runner came in with Hanson relieving. Then David Ortiz came up drove him home Youk home. It was so fucking sick seeing a walk off hit in person, plus it was just a crazy game overall. Went from having the Red Sox being 2 hit by Lidle for the first 5 or so then all of a sudden have the gates opened on the Phillies. Sox scored 6 to go up 6-0 so I figured the game was over. Philies got a few off Wakefield then he came out for fucking Seanez, pretty obvious what happens when Seanez comes out of the pen. So the game gets interesting, Papelbon blows a save (didn't except to even see Papelbon pitch, nevermind blow a save) then Ortiz comes up in the 9th and grounds out Im thinking that was the best shot to win. Ortiz comes up again in extra's but he's walked, next time up in the 12th he delievers after Youk hit the wall ball. Spent like 5 and a half hours in Fenway, no better way to spend 5 hours on a Monday afternoon.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Also my Irish hertiage resulted me getting really sunburned. I was wearing a Red Sox jersey so the farmers tan is pretty ridiculous, I have like red forearms and white from below the elbow and up...shit

[The Miz]

Yeah one time I fell asleep at the beach with my shirt on while on vacation in Florida... had the worst farmer's tan ever and had to go back home to Seattle the next day where the sun just kinda skips over. Had it bad for like a year almost. :mad:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

lol

Red Sox win again woooooop. I had the most ridiculous tickets for yesterday's game, the type of tickets where you sit next to business men who make comments like "Pedro pitches for the Yankees now right?"

Like I said, the only thing bad thing (to me anyways) with the Red Sox blowing up is how ridiuclously hard it is to get a good seat in Fenway. Rich people (or businesses that use them for "business purposes" - my tickets were actually from an electrical supply center lol) who really don't give a fuck are able to buy season tickets which eliminates any hopes of getting a good seat.

Pedro returns to Fenway tomorrow, now all the people who blasted the Red Sox fans saving how they showed "no class" while booing Damon will see that the only reason that Damon got boo'd was because he went to the Yanks. I am sure Pedro will get a standing O since he is the greatest pitcher to ever pitch for the Red Sox (He's better than Roger Clemens IMO)

[The Miz]

Johjima 4 home runs 9 RBI last two games. Mariners back at .500. These losers better start losing again or Bavasi will keep his job

[The Miz]

Dodgers get:
SP Mark Hendrickson
C Toby Hall

Devil Rays get:
SP Jae Weong Seo
C Dioner Navarro

Good trade for the Dodgers and ok trade for the Rays. Hendrickson is putting up pretty good numbers in the AL East and that translates to domination in the NL West (and great pitcher's ballpark). Navarro is useless to LA now that they have Martin so it was smart to get something of value for him.

Seo is quite shit and is going to be worse facing the Red Sox Yankees and Blue Jays all the time. Tampa might not have won this deal on a talent standpoint but they cut about $5 mil in salary so they'll be in better shape for the future. And Navarro is a good young catcher

[The Miz]

Also, Jae Seo for Duaner Sanchez might have been the biggest assrape of the offseason. That was the only move Minaya made that isn't going to fuck the Mets in 2-3 years

[ct2k]

Wow, Jaret Wright throws another good solid 6 innings and we can only muster one fucking run. Jeter, ARod and Giambi managed to go 1-12 combined:|

ARod is back into his little quagmire:n:

But to be fair Giambi is having a monster season despite last night, 22HR and 60+ RBI's is not bad considering he's been off the juice for a while now;)

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, bad game last night. I kinda had a bad feeling that Soler would get raped.

Pedro and Glavine the next 2 games.....but Beckett and Schilling to counter them. I'd be satisfied coming out of this series with one win.

Also, :y: to Sox fans. Pedro already got his standing O. Wonder how its gonna be when he takes the mound tonight.</font>

[The Miz]

Wow, Jaret Wright throws another good solid 6 innings and we can only muster one fucking run. Jeter, ARod and Giambi managed to go 1-12 combined:|

ARod is back into his little quagmire:n:

But to be fair Giambi is having a monster season despite last night, 22HR and 60+ RBI's is not bad considering he's been off the juice for a while now;)

I'd be quite surprised if Giambi wasn't still on HGH or some other undetectable PED. Even with BALCO and Grimsley, MLB testing is still ridiculously easy

[The Miz]

Report: Tejada named in Grimsley affidavit

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062601355.html

So now Jason Grimsley, Rafael Palmeiro, and Jose Canseco have all said Tejada is on roids. I think it's safe to add him to "the bad list"

[Dragon]

Robinson Cano put on the 15 day DL for the Yanks and added to the growing list of injured players. Offense has been struggling a bit as of late, so this won't help.

Definitely can't afford to fall too far behind the Sox right now. Only 3.5 back but the Red Sox seem to be playing great baseball and the Jays are definitely staying pace.

The biggest problem is obviously pitching, namely the bullpen. Farnsworth has obviously been awful. Not good news when you are up 5-0 in the 9th and Rivera still has to be brought in when the bullpen gives up a couple runs.

Starting pitching has been decent. Mussina, Wang, Johnson (as of late) have all been solid. Wright has been good for the 5 innings he is able to pitch, Chacon has been pretty much like Wright (going 5 or so innings) but has given up quite a bit of runs in there.

[ct2k]

I think starting pitching as you said is doin ok, if Johnson and Wright can both continue to pitch like they have been i'll be a lot more confident.

But 3.5 games is not a tiny lead anymore, i know its only a 4 game swing, but still, i'd rather not let that get any bigger seeing as there's currently no way either us or the BoSox will make the wildcard.

[ct2k]

Report: Tejada named in Grimsley affidavit

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062601355.html

So now Jason Grimsley, Rafael Palmeiro, and Jose Canseco have all said Tejada is on roids. I think it's safe to add him to "the bad list"


Is it just me, or is Andruw Jones twice the size he was back in 96? I was watching the WS video the other day and i dunno, looking at his mug on the mlb website, he's fucking huge

[BCWWF]

Lol @ Derek Lowes ERA going from 2.90 to 3.49 in one game. Twins Baseball, fuckin' 'em up and staying 11 games back.

[The Miz]

What's Derek Lowe's asian reporter mistress average up to?

[BCWWF]

Mauer = .392

[The Miz]

What if Mauer played on the Red Sox, ESPN would probably give him his own show

[BCWWF]

What if Ozzie Guillen brings AJ Pierzynski to the All Star Game?

As to Slugs comments about Contreras, I think the main reason that he hasn't shown up in these polls is because he missed some time and his 3.15 ERA and 1.09 WHIP still aren't the best in the AL. His ERA is fourth in the AL and his WHIP is about sixth, other stats are kind of off because he missed time. But Santana and Halladay are both better in both categories. Contreras does have the edge in opponents BA, but he has more walks than the other two combined and plays on a super team, which helps with the wins.

He should definately be an All Star in my opinion, and at the end of the year he could be a Cy Young candidate, but if the votes were right now he wouldn't be.

[The Miz]

Ozzie Guillen will probably bring Pierzynski to the All-Star game, just to prove he doesn't hate gay people. Ba-boom-pish

[Boomer]

The Braves are currently looking like they are the shit. What has happened?

Well they have to beat the Yankees first...

[ct2k]

You know things are bad when you're next to Pittsburgh and Washington in the pile:|

[ct2k]

Jesus, Scott Proctor just managed to get out of a bases loaded jam after hitting Diaz.

Looks like its been another strong outing from Wang, and Smoltzy. We've left 20 on base though:o

[The Miz]

The team has left 12 on this game. 20 LOB is everybody's LOB added together, which there is no point to really.

[ct2k]

Thats just another in a long line of baseball statistics which are pointless!

[The Miz]

Santana with another gem, ERA now under 3. And he is known to drop his ERA by 2 runs after the All-Star break. The 90's had Pedro, Clemens, Maddux, Johnson; I think Santana is going to be remembered as "that guy" from the 00's.

[ct2k]

Bases loaded AGAIN

[ct2k]

I've only seen Santana pitch once unfortunately, we only get 2 games a week and naturally the Twins are rarely on.

The one game i did see he looked shit hot, threw 8 gave up 1, with plenty of K's and barely a walk in sight.

[ct2k]

Justin Verlander
8 IP, 7 K, 3 H, 0 BB, 0 ER

Man he and Vernon Wells have easily been my best fantasy buys this year!

[SammyG]

Jesus fucking christ, TBS and ESPN have the same game, its in the fuckin 12th, just get it oooovvver with for fuck's sake.

[SammyG]

Thank you A-rod.

[Boomer]

*shrug*

That's what we get for turning a starter who gives up more HR than anybody into a closer.

[The Miz]

But... but... I thought A-Rod wasn't clutch. That's what ESPN told me. I thought it was against the rules for anyone other than Ortiz and Jeter to hit walkoffs

[Loose Cannon]

WOOOOOO

[Boomer]

I wouldn't necessarily call that clutch...more like easy...but I'll let ya'll have it anyway.

Any way to get Yankee fans to stop booing him for no reason.

[ct2k]

Fuck yes!

Actually Miz i've heard Bernie Williams refered to as 'clutch' before as well

[ct2k]

:lol:

mlb.com - 'ARod comes through in the clutch...'

Headline!

[FakeLaser]

A-ROD HIT A WALKOFF HOME RUN

Seriously.

[ct2k]

Maybe its a Dominican thing.

Excluding DJ obviously

[BCWWF]

Miz, Santana's ERA was 2.75 coming into the game (maybe 2.70 I forget)

[The Miz]

I meant to say "ERA now well under 3"

[BCWWF]

Just making sure. But damnit, I haven't been watching much Sports Center lately, but besides the AL making a mockery of the NL, what is going on in the AL Central during interleague has just been sick. I think it is safe to say that the Cardinals are one of the better teams in the NL, the Astros aren't bad, and the Dodgers are probably a NL playoff team, and they went a combined like 2-12 or something against the Sox, Tigers and Twins. It was probably worse then that. How is Schilling doing though?

[The Miz]

The NL is just shit period. Every year there's one really good team (Mets this year, Cardinals the year before) 2 or 3 other okay teams (Cards, Dodgers, Padres) and everybody else is pretty much shit. It seems like there is never any clear #1 team in the AL and there are at least 8 right now who have a post-season caliber ballclub and that's not even counting the Angels and Indians who you've got to think will turn their season around at some point

[The Miz]

Red Sox just took a shit on Pedro. 4-0 in the first (only 2 his fault though, Mr. Hype Milledge fucked some shit up)

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I can't believe I waited all week for the Pedro return.

4-0 already. Mets offense can come back, but Beckett seems to be on so I doubt it.

If they don't win tomorrow either then they are fucked. The three worst starters heading into Yankee Stadium. El Duque will almost certainly be rocked.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>If the back end of our rotation continues to falter, I think the Mets need to give up Milledge for Willis. Granted, Milledge will probably always rape us...but if we can't get Willis for another OF prospect I'd do it.

Carlos Gomez is supposed to be awesome. I also heard good things about Ambiorix Concepcion, Fernando Martinez, and Jamar Hill so I dunno. I definately wouldn't wanna deal Martinez tho.</font>

[Gertner]

how abotu a.j burnett last night. now if he could only stay healthy......who am i kidding he'll be back on the dl in two weeks

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Wow Red Sox are like 13-1 during interleague play this year

Pedro got rocked, Gonzo took him deep haha

Pedro is still the man tho

[Triple A]

Wow the A-Rod walk-off HR made me so ridiculously happy today. Like felt MAD HAPPY for him. The game was so dramatic it was crazy. Yankee fans were booing him throughout the game and he had an error and was just having a bad game and then WHOOOOO. Movie script game.

[Gertner]

ted lilly with another solid outing for the jays. I'm pretty sure he's due for a 4 inning 7 run game though

[MVP]

WOW Pedro got owned pretty bad tonight. I was expecting to see another showdown like Schilling/Santana.

But yeah Pedro is still the man.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Pedro fucked himself by trying to go 3rd on a comebacker instead of going to 2nd to turn two. The 3rd basemen was at second though due to the "Ortiz shift" - fuckers your shift fucked everything up. Otherwise it could have been a triple play knowing the way Ortiz runs lol

Also Milledge dropping another ball definetly helped. How the hell did he drop that? It literally fell right into the glove perfectly and some how he was still able drop it.

[The Miz]

lol Milledge for Willis... teams that actually have a top 5 prospect have offered him to the Marlins and all gotten denied so why would they take Milledge

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, didn't realize other teams have offered better prospects for Willis. The Marlins would be retarded to deal him anyway. The whole point of the offseason dumps was to re-stock with young talent, and he's young.

Anyways, I said going into this road trip that I'd be happy with at least 3 wins (preferably 4)...so that's really only one more win in the next 4 games.

Despite the crappy past 2 games against a clearly better team, Mets have a massive division lead and after this road trip they head home to play 4 against the Pirates, 4 against the Marlins, and then 3 at Wrigley against the Cubs after the AS break. Not worried in the slightest though I do hope we can get a solid pitching performance from the back end of our rotation in the Yankee series..</font>

[BCWWF]

If the Red Sox are a "clearly better team" than the Mets, I don't see how Chicago doesn't sweep the playoffs and repeat this year.

[The Miz]

Because we're not in late September yet. It's never about the best team, it's always about the hottest good team. The Marlins have never been close to the best team and they have 2 championships.

If Chicago is playing great going into October they've got a great shot because they've got a great team. I don't care how good you are though, you aren't going to win if you don't play well.

[Evil Vito]

If the Red Sox are a "clearly better team" than the Mets, I don't see how Chicago doesn't sweep the playoffs and repeat this year.

<font color=goldenrod>When I say clearly better team, I mean at the current moment

The Red Sox are hot right now, and nearly unbeatable at home. It irks me that some Mets fans were expecting to come in and give the Sox a run for their money despite streaky Mets pitching. Granted, I didn't expect Pedro to get walloped but still, I wasn't expecting more than a win at the most.

Bottom line: Mets need to get a starter in a bad way, otherwise there is little chance they'll make it past the NLCS.

Hell, at this point I'd even consider giving Darren Oliver a start. He's a former starter, pitches long relief now, and seems to have had a sudden career revival. Go with the hot pitcher rather than run Trachsel or El Sucke out there every 5 days.</font>

[MVP]

The Red Sox are hot right now, but it's only against NL teams. Right before interleague play started we got swept by the Twins. Winning 11 straight is great, but I'm not fully confident til they start winning against AL teams again.

[Gertner]

yeah, wait till they play the jays again and continue to get owned by them