MLB Thread

[Bad News Gertner]

The Price is Right motherfucker

Up in Smoak Tour comng at ya

[Droford]

Gary Thorne slipped up and said "Pujols is retarded...retired" after he grounded out

[Sepholio]

LOL good times.

[Sepholio]

Feel like it's almost that time of year when the braves sign Julio Franco for the remainder of the season. And then it'll be the time of year that I always wonder how the hell is he still more reliable than 80% of the players in the league.

[Droford]

The Royals apparently managed to get all 162 of their games aired on tv this year for the first time in Royals history

[Bad News Gertner]

Josh Donaldson baby.

[Bad News Gertner]

Wooo Bautista Bomb!

[RP]

Rizzo4MVP

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well...coming off the high of sweeping the Nats last weekend, I'd have signed up for a 4-2 Mets road trip and that's what they got.

But knowing it should have been a 6-0 one (blew 3-run leads yesterday and today) makes it pretty frustrating.</font>

[RP]

SWEEP 4 GAME STYLEZ!!

[Damian Rey]

Padres get swept by the Phillies. They've been creamed by last place teams back to back series. To think ownership vetoed every potential trade Preller supposedly had ready to go at the deadline is infuriating. What they were thinking by stopping their gm from many any moves at the deadline is a fucking mystery.

Kinda glad it's all blowing up in their faces. Should teach ownership to just write the checks and let the people they hired do their job.

[screech]

Wooooo Phillies :)

[DaveWadding]

Padres get swept by the Phillies. They've been creamed by last place teams back to back series. To think ownership vetoed every potential trade Preller supposedly had ready to go at the deadline is infuriating. What they were thinking by stopping their gm from many any moves at the deadline is a fucking mystery.

Kinda glad it's all blowing up in their faces. Should teach ownership to just write the checks and let the people they hired do their job.

I love hearing about vetoed trades. Details?

[Bad News Gertner]

Yankees scored 1 run during the entire series against the Jays!


Fuck your grapes!

[Frank Drebin]

Maybe ownership saw him make a million trades in the offseason and figures "This guy making trades r bad"

[Damian Rey]

Ownership was the reason all those bad trades were made in the first place. Their plan of action was to acquire name value and payroll.

If they think he sucks then fire him but reality is the current state of the team is on ownership for mandating such awful moves in the first place in a attempt to quick fix a team into contention.

[Frank Drebin]

I see. Cubs has an issue with that in the past. Crane Kenny told Jim Hendry to spend as fast as possible which is why they bid against themselves for Alfonso Soriano. It's frustrating when non-baseball people stick their nose in baseball decisions because they think having an MBA means they can do anything.

[ClockShot]

Yep. As all Yankee fans feared, we got swept by the Blue Jays. A blind man saw this coming miles away. What was once a nice and comfortable 6 game lead, turned into 1.5.

If this isn't a reality check for Cashman and Girardi, I don't know what is. But I guarantee ya WFAN and ESPN radio are gonna be pretty busy fielding calls from Yankees fans saying that doing NOTHING at the trade deadline was the wrong move all day tomorrow.

[Skippord]

HOLY SHIT IT'S SKIPPORD!

You handsome bastard, where have you been? Are dead inside now that Gertner gets to call Tulo a Blue Jay?
I thought people stopped posting in this thread for some reason. Also, mostly house shopping. I had mostly just gotten tired of the talk around it and am somewhat glad Tulo is somewhere I like and somewhere that he can maybe win more games.

[Skippord]

also fairly surprised the Padres didn't offer the husk of their farm system for him.

[The Fraze]

Where's the Fraze at?

:-\

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

PITCH OWENS PITCH!

Sox win.

[BigDaddyCool]

So the Royals are the greatest team ever.

[Damian Rey]

Think Tulo was a bit of a health risk and that perhaps the Rockies wouldn't deal in division.

[Corndad]

Buccos just put 9 runs up in one inning vs the Dodgers lol

[Damian Rey]

James Shields has cleared waivers. Fans from New Yawk are clamoring on Facebook to acquire him. If they can get Kimbrel through waivers, Padres may have a chance to pillage the Yankees farm system by sending a package of Shields and Kimbrel over. Cashman had previously pushed a trade of shortstop prospect Jorge Mateo for Kimbrel and taking on Jedd Gyorko's contract. Shields, being an actual need, may improve that return.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wish the Cardinals would show any signs of slowing down so that the NL Central race would be closer with the Pirates and Cubs.</font>

[Damian Rey]

The Cardinals are the best ran organization in the game. Despite the constant success they draft well, develop well, make good trades and signings. It disgusts me because their market and financial situation is no different than the Padres', yet the Padres have never had their version of the cardinals way, other than "let's change direction every five years".

[Frank Drebin]

I've said it before: Not even the Grim Reaper can stop the Cardinals from succeeding.

[Frank Drebin]

Waiver trade question: why would the yanks want to strike a deal with the Padres now, after the first trade deadline? What prevented them from trying before? Is it having extra leverage in being the only team that could aquire Shields/Kimbrell assuming they are awarded the claims on one or both?

[Skippord]

Think Tulo was a bit of a health risk and that perhaps the Rockies wouldn't deal in division.
I'm also fairly sure no one really knew Tulo was available for any sort of trade with how secretive the Rockies were about it.

[Damian Rey]

Waiver trade question: why would the yanks want to strike a deal with the Padres now, after the first trade deadline? What prevented them from trying before? Is it having extra leverage in being the only team that could aquire Shields/Kimbrell assuming they are awarded the claims on one or both?

My only logical guess would be desperation. They legit tried to acquire Kimbrel before the deadline but Padres ownership nixed that and any other deal, sources say.

I do think there's leverage for the Yankees in terms of what the could return. There's not a ton of teams who are willing to be on the hook for just under $40 million over three years for a guy who throws 60-70 innings a year. The Padres are in a bind trying to figure Kimbrel out in a trade.

With Shields, the pitching market for free agency being so deep hampers what the Padres get in trade. Teams can go buy James Shields or his aggregate in free agency without giving up prospects.

I'm just being a blind hopeless optimist in trying to find the light at the end of the tunnel for this team. They're in a bad situation that's gonna get worse once the offseason hits, brought upon themselves by ego and ignorance. It's ok to admit you got it wrong, Padres ownership.

[ClockShot]

Cashman and Preller were in the same boat at the deadline. Both did nothing because both believed that their teams were good to go all the way.

There's really nothing the Yankees can do now. Unless Sabathia agrees/voluntarily goes to the bullpen, can't go after a starting pitcher. Can always use bullpen help, but who's out there now? Only thing we can use is probably a 2B. But, who's out there who can hit a lick and play solid defense? Bulldozier is the golden boy but Minnesota ain't gonna get rid of their centerpiece of their restoration.

[Droford]

Chris Davis apparently managed to grow out a full mustache overnight. It's hideous but he hit hr #30 so whatever

[ClockShot]

Brewers GM Doug Melvin is stepping aside to take an advisory role within the organization. Melvin's decision apparently, not the team's. Search for a new GM is underway.

Dave Dombrowski's phone is probably ringing right now.

[road doggy dogg]

I have a friend who is inexplicably a huge Brewers fan but also kinda follows the Tigers because she's from Windsor. I think if DD went to the Brewers she'd lose her shit

[Damian Rey]

Whoever signs that guy is going to see a huge turnaround to their organization should they allow him to have full autonomy.

[ClockShot]

Further reading reports that the Brewers want their next GM to be young with a knack for "analytics"

[RP]

I want the Brewers to have a knack for losing tonight.

[Droford]

Lol why are the Mets selling playoff tickets?

[Bad News Gertner]

Wooo Jays win their 9th in a row and are now 12-0 with Tulowitzki in the starting line up.

[Droford]

Jays are peaking too early

[Frank Drebin]

Lol why are the Mets selling playoff tickets?

Why did the Orioles trade Jake Arrieta? What a world we live in.

[Bad News Gertner]

Jays are peaking too early

Or maybe they are just an awesome team leaving the Mediorioles in their dust

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Lol why are the Mets selling playoff tickets?

Pre-sale. They are the division leader so it seems somewhat confirmed they will be in the playoffs. Maybe not.

[Damian Rey]

Jays are peaking too early

In what world does this make sense? That's lik losing at the right time.

[Droford]

There is most definitely such a thing as peaking too early. The Blue Jays still have 48 games to play.The Os are 4 games back in the division and 2 out in the wild card.

[Frank Drebin]

Imagine where they'd be if they had Jake Arietta

[Damian Rey]

Which has what to do with Toronto? There's a never a bad time to win orc win a lot. It's a silly notion.

[Droford]

You know when a good time to win 9 in a row would be? October

When was the last time the Jays played a meaningful game in october?

[Droford]

Back to back hrs for Jones and Davis in back to back games to tie the game in the 8th. Woo

[Frank Drebin]

I thinks he's just talking about the peaks and valleys of a 162 game season. They're hitting a peak now so in theory, this is not sustainable. The idea is that they won't play as good as the peak again even if they play better than normal. This occurring outside of the playoffs is where he's going with it.

It's a fun idea to throw around with but I'd bet any supporting evidence is few and far between.

[Frank Drebin]

I remember the 2005 White Sox came within a game of blowing a double digit lead in the division. They played like shit all September and then only lost once all post season.

[Droford]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMGAkvFUwAA6s_p.png:large

[Damian Rey]

As would I. Winning is winning no matter what. Peaks and valleys aside, there's never a bad time to win.

Lol what does October have to do with right now? Gertner could easily ask you when the last time Baltimore played in or won a world series.

[Droford]

I thinks he's just talking about the peaks and valleys of a 162 game season. They're hitting a peak now so in theory, this is not sustainable. The idea is that they won't play as good as the peak again even if they play better than normal. This occurring outside of the playoffs is where he's going with it.

It's a fun idea to throw around with but I'd bet any supporting evidence is few and far between.

2001 Seattle Mariners won 116 games, didn't mean a fucking thing in October

[Droford]

Hell, the Orioles won 96 last year and it didn't mean a thing

[Droford]

The Orioles are the last hope for a road team winning tonight. Road teams are 0-14 (the Nats are down 5-0)

I don't think 15 home teams have ever won in a single day

[Droford]

http://i.imgur.com/o1EMysP.jpg?1

[Damian Rey]

If it means so little in October why are you so preoccupied with trying to lessen or make light of what they're doing? If it's so meaningless then why bother to bring it up?

[Ruien]

I agree. Blue Jays should have lost 9 in a row instead. They would be a lock for a playoff spot then.

[Ruien]

Because they would be due to win 18 games in a row then.

[Bad News Gertner]

Fun fact: All 15 home teams won last night. First time that's ever happened.

[Bad News Gertner]

This is also the second time the Jays have won 9 in a row this year.

They were somehow able to recover after peaking in June.

[ClockShot]

BoSox hire Jerry Dipoto on for a temporary gig to help out during the offseason.

Watch your back, Cherington.

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can't touch this! Hisashi Iwakuma throws a no-hitter in his 1st career complete game as Mariners beat Orioles, 3-0. <a href="http://t.co/Y2gd1z7bB9">pic.twitter.com/Y2gd1z7bB9</a></p>&mdash; SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/631589090845151232">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

4th one this season and the first in the AL.

[Frank Drebin]

Droford is being a bit clumsy about it but he's just talking about variance - which Baseball, especially playoffs, can be at the mercy of. That's basically what the playoff are with your Marco Scutaros' and Bobby Jenks' being playoff "heroes"

[ClockShot]

Iwakuma will probably ask for Barry Zito money for his next contract after this.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol are the O's peaking right now Droford?

[Damian Rey]

Drebin makes valid points, because he's a handsome and brilliant man. Droford is commenting from jealously. How many Blue Jay themed posts did he make pre deadline? I smell jealousy that Toronto pretty much blew everyone else away at the deadline and are now steam rolling everyone,while the O's acquired useful but non difference maker Gerardo Parra. Blind, smelly, Baltimore orange homer jealousy is a stinky Bartolo Colon, Droford.

[Bad News Gertner]

Jays up 10-2 in the third already. Good times.

[RoXer]

useful but non difference maker Gerardo Parra

Hey!

[RoXer]

:(

[Damian Rey]

Not hating on Parra, Roxer. I like him.

[RP]

Holy shit Rizzo. He might have just topped Donaldsons play of the year

Fuck the Blue Jays!

Rizzo 4 M V P

[Bad News Gertner]

Yes! Jays might take over first place. Yanks down by 1 in the 8th.

[Bad News Gertner]

First place! I don't believe it!

[Ruien]

Gertner, please let me know when the Jays are done peaking.

[Bad News Gertner]

O's are about to get passed by the Rays.

[Frank Drebin]

Gertner, please let me know when the Jays are done peaking.

White Sox still in it, bro!

[Frank Drebin]

Cubs walk off again. Too bad they're peaking early too.

[Ruien]

White Sox still in it, bro!

Hell ya we are! See, we did not want to peak too early so we decided to lose a bunch of games. In about 2 weeks we will win 14 games in a row to get the second wild card spot.

[Ruien]

Silly Cubs don't understand that winning games at this point in the season is a dumb thing to do.

[Frank Drebin]

Glad I kept the prices up on my tix for September. Time to make some money. Can probably get 5 hundo a seat for a wild card one-off game if they can overtake the Pirates.

[Damian Rey]

I'm just waiting for the Padres to start peaking. They've played it conservatively all year. They're gonna peak at the right time, any minute now.

[Frank Drebin]

Matt Kemp is gonna peak the shit out of September

[Damian Rey]

James Shields will use his Cy Young peak cheat code in September also. I think they've known the right time to win all along.

[Droford]

Dro fact of the day

The only two Japanese pitchers to throw no hitters in mlb did it vs the Orioles.

[ClockShot]

Yankees are in freefall.

Congrats, Blue Jays on taking first place. You've earned it.

[Damian Rey]

The Yankees need Shields and Kimbrel. Or maybe Tyson Ross and Kimbrel. We'll happily take Aaron Judge and Greg Bird off your hands.

[Bad News Gertner]

Sonny Gray scratched for today against the Jays!!!! Wooo, Ryan Goins with a 3 run blast up 4-0!

[Bad News Gertner]

11 in a row!

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets open up a 4 game lead in the division after a 4 game sweep of the Rockies. Love it.

Tough series vs. the Bucs coming up</font>

[Bad News Gertner]

Yanks vs Jays this weekend. Price getting the start tomorrow.

[Frank Drebin]

Cubs and Jays would be a great World Series. Too bad they peaked already.

[Damian Rey]

Poor Vito doesn't get the Mets are burning their peak factor too early while the Nationals wait in the wings.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>If September 2007 has taught me anything, it's to not let my guard down until the final out to clinch the division is recorded.</font>

[road doggy dogg]

Watch the World Series be something fucking lame like LA Angels vs Cardinals

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Would certainly fit the pattern.

2010: Giants
2011: Cardinals
2012: Giants
2013: Cardinals
2014: Giants

I've fully braced myself for one of those two teams making it again despite there being so many more interesting choices.</font>

[screech]

I wouldn't mind the Angels in the BIG DANCE.

Mike Trout #1

[road doggy dogg]

For sure, love Trout

just seems like of all the "cool stories" in the AL this year that LA would just kinda be a meh choice. Though I would take LAA over KC 205672680724807x over. Fuck KC.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>My World Series prediction before the year was Angels/Dodgers so that's still in play. Even though it would make the East Coast bias media weep themselves to sleep.</font>

[Penner]

Going to Jays vs Yanks tonight with Price pitching. Should be a RAGER.

[ClockShot]

Red Sox manager John Farrell diagnosed with stage 1 lymphoma. Taking medical leave to start chemo.

Ugh. Sucks. I take every chance I get to talk shit about the Red Fux. But cancer, no way.

Beat it, John.

[Damian Rey]

I fucking hate cancer

[Bad News Gertner]

Going to Jays vs Yanks tonight with Price pitching. Should be a RAGER.

That's awesome! I"m going to Jays vs Tigers in two weeks.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol Yankees getting shut out by the Jays again.

[Frank Drebin]

Lol Yankees getting shut out by the Jays again.

BOOP

[Nicky Fives]

What a game and a great Tulo at-bat to end it #startagain

[Bad News Gertner]

Price shouldn't have even started the 7th

[ClockShot]

WHAT?! YANKS BEAT THE JAYS?! ENDED THE STEAK?!

WHAT'S NEXT, TRUMP'S GONNA BE PRESIDENT!?!?!?!?!

[Damian Rey]

Matt Kemp becomes the first Padres player to hit for the cycle. A nice little gem of a night on what's been a shit bag season for both Kemp and the team.

[poopfromweiner dude]

EAT
SLEEP
BREAK
THE STREAK

[RP]

Cubs rule Jays drool

[Droford]

What the hell got into the Red Sox

[Emperor Smeat]

Team finally remembered they were built to score a lot of runs. Bullpen giving up 8 runs right at the end also proving what the biggest fear was going into the season.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Man, fuck Bob Davidson. Blatant strike 3 looking to McCutchen gets called ball 4 instead. Niese serves up a 2-run bomb to Aramis Ramirez on the next pitch. And then as Niese, understandably pissed off walks off the field angry...Davidson basically follows him to the dugout hoping for a confrontation.

Hate umps that actively look to throw someone out.</font>

[Droford]

2 Homers for Chris Davis, 9 in the last 2 weeks and 34 on the year.

Orioles are now .5 gb of the Angels for the 2nd Wild Card

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets drop their second extra-inning game in a row to the Pirates.

Mets are 0-12 vs. the Cubs and Pirates this year. Gonna loom large if the Mets don't win the division and have no Wild Card to fall back on.</font>

[Ruien]

4 innings and 9 strike outs for Chris Sale so far.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>What a reality check series for the Mets. They're clearly capable of beating the shit out of bad teams. Unfortunately they've not shown at all that they can get it done against teams they might actually match up against in the playoffs.

Nats shitting the bed is the only thing keeping this weekend from being a total disaster.</font>

[Droford]

I might go to the game tuesday vs the Mets. Feels like that could be a huge 2 game series

[road doggy dogg]

even though the Tigers lost, this is my new favourite clip of the entire 2015 season

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/epn0jzQXF0E/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

[road doggy dogg]

also, wtf @ Red Sox these past few games... crazy

[Bad News Gertner]

Woooo Hutchison

[Droford]

This is the Orioles if the Angels can lose

http://media.giphy.com/media/7yTqXVALy7Fwk/giphy.gif

[BigDaddyCool]

For sure, love Trout

just seems like of all the "cool stories" in the AL this year that LA would just kinda be a meh choice. Though I would take LAA over KC 205672680724807x over. Fuck KC.

Fuck you! Forever Royal!! :mad:

[Penner]

I agree. Screw KC.

[BigDaddyCool]

you are all just jealous.

[ClockShot]

Well Mr. Mitchell, I guess it wasn't your day to pitch.

[ClockShot]

Aaaaand the Yankees escape with an extra innings win vs. the Twinkies.

Maybe next time you'll think twice before giving the starters an extra day of rest, Joe. Came back and bit ya this time.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Red Sox announce that Ben Cherington has stepped down as President of Baseball Operations and that Dave Dombrowski has taken the role effective immediately.</font>

[road doggy dogg]

think i just puked in my mouth a bit

[Droford]

The Mets Mob at Camden Yards is a notch less annoying than the asshole Yankee fans that come down for games.

[Bad News Gertner]

Josh Donaldson is the man

[DaveWadding]

<font color=goldenrod>Red Sox announce that Ben Cherington has stepped down as President of Baseball Operations and that Dave Dombrowski has taken the role effective immediately.</font>

think i just puked in my mouth a bit

h8 this whole "guy above the GM" thing.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets sure do love to take a comfortable lead into the 9th and then do everything in their power to nearly blow it. Phew. Win's a win.</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

<font color=goldenrod>Red Sox announce that Ben Cherington has stepped down as President of Baseball Operations and that Dave Dombrowski has taken the role effective immediately.</font>

Cherington getting that job must have been really recent since someone else was supposed to have taken over after Larry Lucchino resigned.

Cherrington also resigning as the GM with former Braves GM Frank Wren as a rumored likely choice.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Official announcement of Dombrowski hiring tomorrow. He said he wanted Cherington to stay as GM; Ben told him no this afternoon</p>&mdash; Gordon Edes (@GordonEdes) <a href="https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/633820224194772996">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[road doggy dogg]

h8 this whole "guy above the GM" thing.

I more hate the whole "Boston Red Sox" thing and the "Dombrowski is no longer with the Tigers" thing

[BigDaddyCool]

Royals won again. Where are your tigers now?

[road doggy dogg]

coughing up a game to the cubs because Ausmus is a terrible bullpen manager :[

[ClockShot]

Just when I thought Toronto is gonna be a problem. Now the Red Sox.

Wonder if Davey is gonna clean house during the post season and unload some of those contracts. Just like Ben did when he got in.

[ClockShot]

Dodgers get Chase Utley from the Phillies for 2 prospects.

[Droford]

http://i.imgur.com/8s1kbQTl.jpg

more here (http://m.imgur.com/a/3DDue)

[Droford]

Henry Urrutia gets the Os 3rd walk off hr in 6 games and his first career hr to beat the Mets 5-4.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets bullpen has been atrocious of late. Need to iron that shit out if they're gonna get to October.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Also felt inevitable that Urrutia was gonna do something big since any time his name was brought up this series I just thought "wow, Urritia is a really stupid-sounding name"</font>

[Droford]

He's our Cuban sensation who up until this past call up could apparently neither hit or field

[screech]

Wooooo Phillies win!

[screech]

Bummed @Utley trade, but I figured it woulda happened already. More stock for the farm. Gotta hope that a few these guys pan out, especially some damn SP. Worst part about this team behind Dom Brown.

[Bad News Gertner]

Well that sucked

[Nicky Fives]

Not sure what I prefer more, Toronto in the WC race or BoSox in dead last....

[Penner]

Put your hands together

[ClockShot]

Giants get Marlon Byrd from the Reds for Stephen Johnson.

[Emperor Smeat]

The acquisition of Chase Utley put the Los Angeles Dodgers close to becoming the first baseball team with a $300 million luxury-tax payroll.

The trade Wednesday, which sent Utley from Philadelphia to Los Angeles, raised the Dodgers' projected payroll for tax purposes to about $298.5 million, according to calculations by Major League Baseball. Performance bonuses for other players and end-of-season award bonuses could make the Dodgers the first team to reach the $300 million mark.

Besides that, already expected to break the luxury bill record by around $10 million once its time for teams to pay up.

[road doggy dogg]

Tigers string 3 wins in a row together for the first time since it feels like June

[road doggy dogg]

just looked it up. June 23rd, to be exact

jesus christ

[ClockShot]

Besides that, already expected to break the luxury bill record by around $10 million once its time for teams to pay up.

The New York Yankees are officially off the hook.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets give Colon a huge lead in Colorado. Collins leaves him in long enough to give most of it back and he leaves up 8-7 in the 4th inning.

Collins is such a fucking moron. Colon clearly has nothing left in the tank LONG before he was pulled. Do you really expect a guy who only throws 80-something MPH fastballs to pitch well in Colorado?</font>

[Droford]

298.5 million gets you no hit by Mike Fiers of the Astros

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wilpons should hand Cespedes a blank check this offseason.</font>

[Bad News Gertner]

If I'm the Jays I'm giving David Price whatever he wants this off-season. First Jays pitcher since Halladay that I feel confident when he pitches.

[Damian Rey]

I'd be careful there, Vito. Cespedes is having a resurgence this year after barely being above average the two years prior. They should maybe sign him, but not for a blank check.

I'm more curious to see where and for how much Jason Heyward goes.

[Frank Drebin]

I wouldn't say he was barely above average - he was good. I will say he was good while alot of people thought he was great. Agree on Heyward. He's getting a 7/200 deal from someone. I'd guess Cespedes gets 5/125 from whoever misses out on Heyward and is vastly overpaid.

[Sepholio]

Frank. I love you. But you are out of your mind if you think Heyward will get anywhere close to a 7/200 deal EVER.

Thats over 28 million a year bro. For a career .265 hitter who will net you 55-60 RBIs and 13-14 HR. No one is giving him anywhere NEAR that kind of money, and if they do they are dumb and should be fired.

[DaveWadding]

if Heyward is worth 7/200, Justin Upton is also.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>If you guarantee that Cespedes would net 20+ HR and 80+ RBI through the life of his next contract, I would sign up for it in a heartbeat even if it does constitute an overpayment. The Mets' pitching should be really good through at least 2018 when Harvey becomes the first member of the staff to hit free agency. But if you let Cespedes go I really don't know where you're getting your offense from next year. Nobody knows what Wright will be able to do after his back injury. Murph will be gone. Duda is streaky. d'Arnaud is streaky AND injury prone. Cuddyer is a bust. Lagares clearly needs elbow surgery. Granderson's having a nice bounceback year with 22 longballs but most of them are solo shots since he hits leadoff.

There's just way more questions than answers next year without Cespedes. Before they got Cespedes they lost so many games where they wasted a gem from their starter because they couldn't score at all. If they had Cespedes in their lineup this whole season they'd probably have completely blown the doors open on this division by now.

Oh and he's also a good defender and his arm is a goddamn cannon. A big perk for Citi Field.</font>

[screech]

lol who would be dumb enough to pay 7/200 for Heyward?

[screech]

Ruben Amaro, probably

[Frank Drebin]

Ill stand by what I said. Maybe its "only" 180 or its an 8 year deal but he gets his money. He's getting paid 25-30 mil per year.

If Jacoby Ellsbury got 7/158 at 30 years old, Carl Crawford got 7/175 at 29, Heyward might even get more than what I'm guessing - and its probably going to be from the Cardinals.

[Emperor Smeat]

lol who would be dumb enough to pay 7/200 for Heyward?

Dodgers?

[Frank Drebin]

Think the Cards gave up Shelby Miller for one year of Heyward?

But yeah, the Dodgers don't give two fucks about money now.

[Frank Drebin]

if Heyward is worth 7/200, Justin Upton is also.

He gets whatever Cespedes gets.

Not sure why so many of you think 200 mil for Heyward is insane.

[screech]

Because it is insane to pay $200 million to a career .265 hitter who doesn't hit a bunch of homeruns or drive in a bunch of runs.

[Frank Drebin]

You're going with batting average, HR and RBI to quantify his performance? I know you're a Phillies fan, but you're smarter than that.

[Damian Rey]

It's also insane, and honestly quite daft, in this day and age of advanced, far more informative statistics to think Cespedes is better than Heyward or that the latter shouldn't get a hefty if
not higher pay day than the other outfielders on the market based on counting numbers.

Heyward is about to clear his 4th 4 war season in 6 years, at 25 years old, in a walk year. He's also been consistently 2 wins or better above the average player sans one season throughout his career. And while he doesn't compile high homerun tallies, he's still an above average hitter for his career with room to grow, and is arguably the best defensive right fielder in the game. Maybe 7 years and 200 is a bit of an over statement, but 8 or even 9 years at that rate is not out of the realm of possibility. I think Heyward is the number one position player on the free agent market. Much more well rounded game than Upton and Cespedes, but still had prime years ahead of him.

Cespedes is good, but is, imo, largely overrated. His primary skill is hitting a ball over a fence. His power makes him an above average hitter for his career, but good career ops+ is only marginally higher than Heyward's, who's 4 years younger and while Cespedes is a good defensive left fielder, his defense is not as good as Heyward's. This is actually the only year where Cespedes is on a similar level with the glove. Over the course of their careers, Heyward blows Cespedes out of the water in the outfield. Cespedes is actually peaking far above his career numbers, and I'd wager it safe to say 2015 will likely be best overall season and he'll regress to his personal norm next year.

So, you have outfielders who are, at bat for at bat, about equal, with one being the far more elite defender and only age 26 in year one of his next deal, while the other is performing at a level he's reached only one other time at age 26 and will be age 30 in year one of his deal, an age where players typically begin to decline.

I'll give the money to the guy who is going give you 4 seasons before turning age 30.

[Frank Drebin]

he just turned 26 too.

An above average hitter with great strike zone discipline who's a 15 HR guy now with room to grow, plays Gold Glove OF with a cannon for an arm, and has speed as well as base running acumen (18 SB, 2 CS this year).

25.2 WAR through his 5.5 year career up to this point. This year should have been his 5th +4 win season. Had 3.4 in 2013 and only played in 104 games. Been worth that money his whole career. He's getting a massive deal.

[Sepholio]

15 HR with room to grow? You guys must not remember how he put up 27 HR in 2011 or 12, then hasn't hit more than 11 since. His production has almost consistently dropped across the board since his first 2 years.

[Sepholio]

We had him for 5 years in Atlanta. I've watched him thoroughly. He is slightly above average at best.

If he gets a superstar deal I will shit a brick. AND eat it.

[Frank Drebin]

He's been pretty consistent his whole career actually, 2012 HR total aside. His wRC+ in seasons 2012-2015: 121, 119, 110, 114.

Pointing out HR because screech mentioned it. While he may have hit 27 once, the rest of his career has seen him in the 15 HR range - based on his age, yes, he has room to grow since you typically don't reach your power potential until 27 or 28.

[screech]

You're going with batting average, HR and RBI to quantify his performance? I know you're a Phillies fan, but you're smarter than that.

Yeah, sorry I use real numbers to show he's not a guy to break the bank to have. If I'm paying someone $200 million, he'd better show some actual results.

[Frank Drebin]

Art Howe ladies and gentlemen.

Cmon man, you know those numbers make for a really weak argument. Damian Rey already went through this 5 posts ago.

[Damian Rey]

Lol real numbers. I guess Ryan Howard is still worth that $25 million a year since he compiles homeruns and RBI, you know, real numbers. I think Ruben Amaro has hacked screech's account.

I don't understand how some of you are still placing heavy value in counting numbers. Why rate stats are not being more heavily figured into a players overall contribution is beyond. This isn't the 1990s anyone. The pro teams realize and now heavily rely on far more telling metrics than "TEH RIBBIES" to judge value.

I hope Seph is ready to eat that shit brick.

[Frank Drebin]

I will allow seph to put a layer of frosting on that shit brick. Also "Chicks dig the longball" and so does screech ;)

[Frank Drebin]

I really hope screech is just trolling right now.

[screech]

Yeah, lemme ignore stats I can actually quantify in favor of how many projected runs he might very well possibly score over the next two years.

Sabermetrics are not the be-all end all for evaluating talent. HRs and RBIs might not be either, but to not acknowledge them at all is silly.

But be my guest if you want to use "metrics" to justify paying $200 million for an average player.

Ryan Howard was never worth that contract, for the record.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>As much as I understand/agree with many of the advanced metrics, I liked them much more before people were insufferable douchebags about them. Ever try reading a Bill James interview? The guy has absolutely zero patience for people who don't have the same grasp on sabermetrics that he does. He actively talks down to people who even try to use traditional statistics.

Similarly, I'm pretty sure Brian Kenny (who I love) is going to murder Harold Reynolds in his sleep one of these years.</font>

[ClockShot]

Jorge Posada Day at the Stadium today and the Yankees decided to show up and win today.

#20 retired. Yanks are running out of numbers.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Also in the case of Cespedes, I really don't need to go into advanced numbers to know he's clearly a better offensive player than anybody else on the Mets roster and this is likely to be true in 2016 as well even if he regresses to something closer to his 2014 self. I wish I could say I had faith in Wright coming close to what he was in 2012 or 13 even, but he'll be 33 next year and this spinal stenosis is something he will need to play through for the rest of his career. I really have no clue what to expect, which pains me as he's been the face of the franchise for the last decade and is the best pure hitter to ever come up through their system.

Ergo, I'd be fine with the Mets spending whatever they needed to keep Cespedes to ensure they're keeping a potentially potent bat in the lineup for these next few years before their window closes and the pitchers head to free agency.

It's not going to happen, anyway. Even with all of the trades they made this year the payroll barely went up. There are likely still money issues next year. And since they only have until 5 days after the World Series before they need to release him (and therefore can't sign him again til May per league rules) the odds of a deal being reached are close to zero.</font>

[Damian Rey]

He's been ruined by his team's general manager's line of thinking. Ruben Amaro was the guy who couldn't comprehend why Mike Schmidt had a higher obp than Jimmy Rollins despite them having a near equal amount of career hits.

[Damian Rey]

Screech, nobody's posting projected numbers. Are you really saying you can't comprehend that batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage and that are too hard to quantify over homers and RBI in evaluating a player? You're smarter than that.

And you're using homeruns and RBI as a way to project whether or not Heyward is worth a mega deal ,the same as Frank and I are using his actual rate stats to do the same.

To my handsome friend Vito, I too hate those who come off as holier than thou, which is why I love me some Brian Kenny and Keith Law, and why I despise reading fangraphs articles. If I've come off in such a manner, my dearest apologies, as it is not my intent, at least initially.

I do understand why regaining Cespedes should be a high priority for the Mets this winter. Pairing him with Conforto and Granderson over the next handful of years, with that pitching, could very well place the Mets in contention over the long term. It would also allow them to flip either Granderson or Nimmo for additional help if need be. I can see the upside in resigning him. I just wouldn't fill out a blank check. A 5 year deal in the 20 million range however,that's something they should legitimately try to offer.

[Droford]

<font color=goldenrod>Wilpons should hand Cespedes a blank check this offseason.</font>

Baltimore is going to offer him unlimited crabs

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMyQ7-CUwAAIo2J.png:large

[Frank Drebin]

Yeah, lemme ignore stats I can actually quantify in favor of how many projected runs he might very well possibly score over the next two years.

Sabermetrics are not the be-all end all for evaluating talent. HRs and RBIs might not be either, but to not acknowledge them at all is silly.

But be my guest if you want to use "metrics" to justify paying $200 million for an average player.

Ryan Howard was never worth that contract, for the record.

They aren't the be all end all, you're right. If it were that easy, put numbers into a computer and get a world champ and don't pay for a GM. Here's the thing: they give you a new perspective from an unbiased view about intricacies of the game that can't be explained with a stat like RBI. If you roll with a stat like RBI, which is really a situational stat, Delmon Young should have won an MVP and Rickey Henderson is one of the most overrated players of all time.

In the wannabe scouting report I wrote about Heyward, none of that contained numbers. I don't know how you could argue with that if you want to disregard numbers.

<font color=goldenrod>As much as I understand/agree with many of the advanced metrics, I liked them much more before people were insufferable douchebags about them. Ever try reading a Bill James interview? The guy has absolutely zero patience for people who don't have the same grasp on sabermetrics that he does. He actively talks down to people who even try to use traditional statistics.

Similarly, I'm pretty sure Brian Kenny (who I love) is going to murder Harold Reynolds in his sleep one of these years.</font>

Really? The MIT/Ivy League math nerd type can be condescending? No way.

[DaveWadding]

Really? The MIT/Ivy League math nerd type can be condescending? No way.

Point proven, fuckbag.

[Frank Drebin]

So Heyward is worth 200 mil, right?

[Damian Rey]

YES!

[Bad News Gertner]

Josh Donaldson has 5 rbi's through 4 innings.

Just give that man the MVP

[Frank Drebin]

arbyeyes?

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol make that 6. Now up to 100 for the year.

[Damian Rey]

#MikeTrout, but Donaldson is a beast.

[Bad News Gertner]

Jays won 9-2 against the Angels last night and are up 15-3 in the 9th

[Corndad]

Sign this kid up...

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/eDxn77hVKIj/embed/simple" frameborder="0" height="600" width="600"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

[ClockShot]

Andy Pettitte Day at the Stadium today. Here's hoping the Yankees can split the series with Cleveland.

[ClockShot]

Mariners DFA Fernando Rodney.

Damn. What the hell happened with him?

[Damian Rey]

He got old. He's almost 40 and relievers are liable to hit a wall at any time.

Thinking about the Dombrowski signing makes me wonder if he'll employ the same strategy A's Detroit, where he used the farm system as currency.

[Frank Drebin]

Gezzus....Kris Bryant is 3 for 3, 2HR, HBP so far. Hes one of the top 10 hitters in the NL (even though he isnt in the top ten in RBI and has a .253 Batting ave, ya know). Amazing.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm guessing the Angels pitchers won't be sad to see the Jays go. 9 runs the first night, 15 last night and 6 threw 3 innings.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol Jays win 12-5. Amazing. They scored 36 runs over the 3 game series with the Angels.

[ClockShot]

Yankees choke away the series to the Indians. And lose Sabathia to his haunting knee injury.

Back to the 5-man rotation it is.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Jorge Posada's number retired? I think Murderer's Row is rolling in their graves.

[ClockShot]

Yesterday. Andy Pettitte's today.

[Bad News Gertner]

Fuck, the Jays had 48 hits over this past series.

Very worried about peaking.

[Frank Drebin]

Cubs have the 4th best record in Baseball and are 3rd in their division. Insane. Really cool to see them absolutely dominating the teams they should be dominating. Now they go on the road against SF and LA so this should be a good litmus test.

[Heyman]

Fuck, the Jays had 48 hits over this past series.

Very worried about peaking.



Peaking is a myth in my opinion. Teams that are truly mentally tough, won't worry about mythical factors such as that. They simply take one game at a time, and give it all they got.

[Ruien]

Heymen, it's a joke about Dro ford saying Toronto was peaking to early about a month ago. Because Baltimore is, in theory, going to catch then because of said peaking.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Peaking too early? Droford is the guy who thought the standings in April mattered.

[Frank Drebin]

Kris Bryant does it again.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets were losing 7-2 after 3 innings in Philly. Wind up winning 16-7 with a team record 8 home runs.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Heard David Wright went yard in his return. How'd that feel?

[Frank Drebin]

Wait...how many guys were on base for his home run? That will determine if it was a good at bat.

[Damian Rey]

It was just a measly solo shot. But the Mets did win 15 RBI to 5. Consider that game quantified.

[screech]

Go fuck yourselves

[screech]

I don't mean that. Goddammit, Phillies

[screech]

Paying $200 million for Heyward is still insane, btw. Great defense isn't enough to justify that for an average hitter.

Unless it's Ozzie Smith, obviously. How much would that be per backflip? Totally worth it.

[screech]

Which means Amaro will do it in December after extending Dom Brown for 8 years.

[ClockShot]

Gem of a game between the Yankees and Astros last night. Pitchers duel all the way to the end. Yanks win with a walk off sac fly.

[road doggy dogg]

Pineda expected to start tomorrow

[Frank Drebin]

Which means Amaro will do it in December after extending Dom Brown for 8 years.

In my MLB The Show franchise, the Phils do indeed sign Heyward to a mega deal if thats any indication....:shifty:

[screech]

It just seems like the perfect final move for him to make, assuming he's on his way outta town.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>In my MLB The Show franchise I wound up with Josh Reddick, Dee Gordon, Troy Tulowtizki, and Chris Sale all at a fairly minimal cost of prospects. I am an excellent GM.</font>

[Damian Rey]

I don't think you're getting that he's an above average hitter. Because he has been. His entire career.

[screech]

That's because he hasn't been.

[screech]

I'm not saying he's bad. But you're making him out to be on par with guys like Cabrera and Trout, which he is not and never has been.

[Damian Rey]

266/351/431-Heyward's caree line

260/326/407-league average over his career

So all those numbers are above the league average. Thus , he's above league average. You can't seriously be this daft.

[Damian Rey]

Lol nobody has compared to either of those players and this is the first that comparison is even being brought up, by you no less. Mike Trout is the best player in the game.

I don't get why you feel that there's any comparison to those players. Heyward is in that next tier and he's gonna get paid handsomely for it, maybe even overpaid, just like Trout would be if he hit the market and as well as Cabrera.

[screech]

.266 is still not worth $200 million.

Also I did not say anyone compared him to those players, nor did I directly compare him to anyone. But you are making him seem better than he is, which is why I made the statement.

Why is this so difficult for you? To me, Jason Heyward is not worth paying $200 million, based on watching him do baseball things against the Phillies (and other teams) for 5+ years. But feel free to justify that contract however you want.

[Damian Rey]

No we're not. What's lost in translation is,as you've already stated, you're hung up on counting numbers and using it as a basis to judge what Heyward is worth.

And nobody said he was better or is making him sound better than Trout. That's your own interpretation made by God knows what.

He's an excellent player. He does everything, EVERYTHING better, in many cases far better than a league average player, and he'll be paid handsomely. There isn't any one player except maybe Trout and Stanton, who are worth the gigantic contractual obligations. Heyward probably is not really a $200 million player, and honestly, he's likely not going to get that much. But he's for sure with lot of money regardless of you think he's worth it or comprehend why he's as valuable as he is.

[screech]

It's an interpretation based on your claiming he's some kind of Godsend, which he is not. What's lost is that you think I'm only looking at stats. Sure, I don't give a shit about WAR (a pro is better than a scrub off the street - yay!).

But based on what I have watched him do on the field, combined with his numbers (since they do still matter, despite what you might think) he is not a guy who should get that much money.

It's not that hard to get. You think he's great and worth ~$200mil. I think he's just good and worth less. That's it.

[screech]

Also today is Albert Belle's 49th birthday.

Fuck yeah, Albert Belle.

[road doggy dogg]

lol jason heyward

[Damian Rey]

Can you point out where myself or anyone claimed him being a godsend? I believe that's just what you're interpreting but I've yet to see anyone praise him as anything other than a very,very good player who's about to get paid.

And yes, numbers do matter, nobody's using intangibles or hyperbole to describe him. They're using numbers.

[Evil Vito]

http://deadspin.com/and-now-curt-schilling-with-some-cool-thoughts-about-m-1726385341

<font color=goldenrod>Curt Schilling is such an asshole. How he only got suspended by ESPN for this is beyond me. Bill Simmons got fired for way less.</font>

[road doggy dogg]

whatever, he is still badass for going all vigilante on a bunch of Twitter scumbags for creeping on his daughter

[ClockShot]

Remember Vito, Curt needs money. Bad.

Probably begged for a suspension at the very least.

[road doggy dogg]

also, this definitely falls under pfwd's thread about the internet in general

OH MY GOD HOW COULD CURT SCHILLING SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MUSLIMS #hottake

[Damian Rey]

Because he has cancer. I cannot see any other reason other than sympathizing for his recently conquered illness.

[Frank Drebin]

It's an interpretation based on your claiming he's some kind of Godsend, which he is not. What's lost is that you think I'm only looking at stats. Sure, I don't give a shit about WAR (a pro is better than a scrub off the street - yay!).

But based on what I have watched him do on the field, combined with his numbers (since they do still matter, despite what you might think) he is not a guy who should get that much money.

It's not that hard to get. You think he's great and worth ~$200mil. I think he's just good and worth less. That's it.

First off, you don't know what WAR stands for or at least comprehend the concept. If you did, you wouldn't say "a pro is better than a scrub off the street" because that's not what it means.

What Damian and I are arguing is that you're using antiquated metrics to quantify a players performance. We've given examples of why batting average is only a small piece of the pie. Ex: Kris Bryant is hitting .262 right now....if he were a free agent, what kind of contract do you think he would get this offseason? $200 mil would be a home town discount to put it mildly.

No one compared Hayward to Trout or Cabrerra. His scouting report was summed up and supported by data which all comes out to "hes getting paid very well" after this season.

[Evil Vito]

also, this definitely falls under pfwd's thread about the internet in general

OH MY GOD HOW COULD CURT SCHILLING SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MUSLIMS #hottake

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno...comparing an entire religion to Nazis kinda something that people can justifiably get angry about.

Much more than the minute bullshit people love to rave about online.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Kris Bryant is so dreamy. Those eyes, tho! And yeah, he'd be getting Cano money if he was a free agent right now. Can you imagine what Bryce Harper is going to get? He might set a record.

[Frank Drebin]

Nah...Bryce Harper isn't even top 20 in RBI. He's just ok. I would take Kendrys Morales over him any day since he passes my eye test.