Ratings Thread

[Ezra]

X rated suits tv show.

[Emperor Smeat]

Nothing for the time being due to USA Network being terrible at creating new big hit shows.

The real problem is WWE's numbers are actually trending lower percentage wise than the yearly average across tv which is why it seems insane NBC is paying that much for RAW going forward. UFC being on the market the same time as the WWE ending being the best thing to happen to the WWE since they got to take advantage of the bidding war for UFC.

[Mr. Nerfect]

All tv numbers are trending down. What would they put in that time slot thats going to get 2.5 million viewers?

Law & Order: Criminal Intent reruns.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nothing for the time being due to USA Network being terrible at creating new big hit shows.

The real problem is WWE's numbers are actually trending lower percentage wise than the yearly average across tv which is why it seems insane NBC is paying that much for RAW going forward. UFC being on the market the same time as the WWE ending being the best thing to happen to the WWE since they got to take advantage of the bidding war for UFC.

Yeah, I'm sure I've read that the WWE is decreasing a rate faster than television in general. The deal makes sense for USA, because they need something, but I just get hung up on that number. The competition from FOX makes sense as a haggling tool in the WWE's favor, but I'm not sure that the television bubble is just going to keep increasing and increasing for WWE.

The deal includes the reality shows, which do well. It wouldn't surprise me if there are more on the way too. They've got that Miz one coming out. It wouldn't surprise me if Rusev & Lana get one at some point. I mean, they effectively cancelled SmackDown with this deal too. It's a very weird deal that makes sense when you put into the perspective that NBC Universal wants to keep them and has to make a competitive offer with FOX that is scared they are going to lose UFC.

Vince is more lucky than good in this scenario, although I'm sure he would never call it that.

[Emperor Smeat]

FOX is also selling off all of their in-house studios as part of the rumored Disney deal so it makes sense they splurged on Smackdown. Need the show and WWE in general to help fill in the gap for live content going forward.

Funny thing is FOX already has a show that performs a lot better and likely way cheaper at the Friday spot Smackdown is going to take. Only downside is the cooking contest show isn't on every week unlike Smackdown.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's a weird time in television.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm sure there's no shortage of reality competition ideas they could come up with that would be cheaper to produce and pull better ratings than Smackdown.

[slik]

SD hit it's lowest rating since October 2017. Really too bad since the show was great this week.




2.1 million viewers

This is down 4.5% from last week's 2.3 million viewers for the taped show from London and is the lowest blue brand viewership of 2018. This is the lowest SmackDown viewership since the Halloween 2017 episode, which drew 2.1 million viewers.

credit - wrestlinginc.com

[Destor]

Wait so the pretaped out performed the live show? Ouch

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm sure there's no shortage of reality competition ideas they could come up with that would be cheaper to produce and pull better ratings than Smackdown.

America's Next Toilet Cat would surely be a bigger star than even heel Shinsuke Nakamura.

[Emperor Smeat]

This week's RAW almost set the record for least watched episode since the end of the Attitude Era.


In what shouldn't be a surprise, Monday's Raw did the second lowest number of viewers in the modern history of the show, doing 2.49 million going against major competition from the NBA and NHL.

The only episode in modern history to do fewer viewers was in 2016, a show that went head-to-head with the Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton debate. That episode averaged 2.48 million viewers.

[Destor]

Shady reporting though...

Raw only underperformed against the NBA and for love and hip hop. Love and hip hop seems to be a hit. But ultimately it essentially is 3rd hottest show on tvs 2nd biggest night.

But that snippet is some doom and gloom.

Just shows you how easy it is to use facts to shap a dishonest narritive

[Emperor Smeat]

It has been setting a few dubious records and marks since Mania ended which should be a bit concerning. Even in terms of pace, this yea's post-Mania season is dropping faster than last year's by about 2-3 weeks. Need to check the numbers but think the 3rd hour is well on pace to hit a sub-2 million number faster than it ever did before.

PWI's report on this week's number did the comparison with last year's Memorial Day and the drop was tiny (2k) compared to this year's drop (174k).

[Destor]

Those trends are comparable for all television. All of it. TV is dying. The WWE is one of the few things doing well.

[xrodmuc316]

Shady reporting though...

Raw only underperformed against the NBA and for love and hip hop. Love and hip hop seems to be a hit. But ultimately it essentially is 3rd hottest show on tvs 2nd biggest night.

But that snippet is some doom and gloom.

Just shows you how easy it is to use facts to shap a dishonest narritive

100% agree. Raw always gets lower ratings on Holidays, and it was against a game 7 NBA Playoff game, plus the NFL Stanley Cup. Raw being down 230,000 people from last week is nothing all things considering.

[Destor]

Thing is is its a perspective issue. Lower doesnt mean low and it certainly doesnt mean bad. These are strong ratings in 2018. TV markets are shrinking. Its legitimately having its death rattle. Its as dead as radio.

[xrodmuc316]

Those trends are comparable for all television. All of it. TV is dying. The WWE is one of the few things doing well.

Also 100% correct. TV ratings are such an old way to gauge success. Networks like Fox are dumb enough to cancel a show like Last Man on Earth that only gets a 4 rating, so they cancel it.

They literally don't factor in all the whole picture stuff like if it has great DVR numbers, or a bunch of streaming views on Hulu, which Fox partly owns, making it more idiotic that they still go by the old ratings to make those decisions.

[Destor]

If you think the show is performing poorly and you followed the universal and fox deals you have an outstandingly poor ability to extrapolate information for yourself. The sheets are written by morons.

[Destor]

Or are we actually saying that dave meltzer and friends have a better handle on the tv market than nbc and fox

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thing is is its a perspective issue. Lower doesnt mean low and it certainly doesnt mean bad. These are strong ratings in 2018. TV markets are shrinking. Its legitimately having its death rattle. Its as dead as radio.

This is true, but then there are other perspectives to consider. It's basically where it places in the night that is most important right now, and how that affects advertising revenue. Raw could retain the same amount of viewers, but if more people were watching 9 other things (and that's not going to happen with the same amount of viewers), then it'd be a lot less valuable. Then you've got to consider how much money they are paying for TV rights versus production on other shows. How much are those 3 million pairs of eyeballs worth?

At the end of the day, I actually do question whether or not this is the soundest plan by NBC or Fox. Just because with those trends going down, and they are going down faster than most other television seems to be, from what I can detect anyway, then at some point you have to question whether or not it is worth it for this programming. Where is the magic line where you start getting buyers' remorse, because death rattle or not (and it is a death rattle), then where do you stop spending much on so few, even if they are a lot comparatively?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Or are we actually saying that dave meltzer and friends have a better handle on the tv market than nbc and fox

Hmm, well, that could be a wash...

[Destor]

Id like to see some data that suggests their downward trend is in anyway worse than the average.

[Destor]

And yes at some point advertisers are going to regret their purchase but its likely to not be on the 3rd highest veiwed show in prime time on mondays.

Inevitably the add dollars will shrink with the shrinking market and when that happens tv products will get lower budget in turm.

Thats inevitable on the road to obsolescence. We are arent there yet. And raw is FAR safer than the bulk of other shows.

People in television recognize this. People who cover television recgonize this. People who cover market trends recognize this. Wrestling "journalists" dont. Why in the fuck is meltzer being entertained with this narritive?

He's talking out of his ass.

[Destor]

To your credit i do anticipate smackdown to fail on fox. The friday time slot will kill it. On a better night and i think it would have a ling life. But fox fridays are and always have been a death slot and in 2018 its worse than ever.

[Destor]

The mistep is the time slot though and nothing else. The install base is easily among the largest on tv

[Mr. Nerfect]

Id like to see some data that suggests their downward trend is in anyway worse than the average.

I'm sure I've read that somewhere. The numbers I can find from a few years ago says 8-10%, and I was under the belief the WWE was going down more than that on a yearly basis. But I just checked and apparently WWE is only losing 5%, but that was in millions of viewers, which is a mixed metric.

They dropped 10.5% for 2015's average versus 2014 and 14.4% for 2016. I'm not sure what the average rating was for 2017. Ratings seem to be hold steady for 2018 though, even though viewership is dropping.

So it's not appreciably outside the realms of the death of television, I guess. If they were going down faster than TV in general, they seem to have stopped falling so fast. And I do think television is catching up, generally speaking.

[Emperor Smeat]

Quickest I could find compares RAW with the major cable networks in regards to viewership and prime-time.

According to Forbes, WWE's drop for RAW in 2016-2017 was 17.6% for the 1st half the year (Jan-June 2016, Jan-June 2017). Last year it was around 9.6% overall based on some quick math. Major cable networks averaged around an 8% drop overall last year with FOX and NFL contributing a lot to the hit.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfredkonuwa/2017/06/01/a-2-hour-format-for-wwe-raw-in-2019-seems-more-realistic-than-ever/#68e6c89577a0

https://www.thewrap.com/broadcast-tv-ratings-nbc-cbs-abc-fox-cw/

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/media/nfl-ratings-tv-networks/index.html

http://www.wrestling-online.com/wwe/a-look-at-the-2017-monday-night-raw-ratings/

[slik]

credit - wrestlinginc




This week's WWE SmackDown, featuring Samoa Joe defeating Big Cass and Daniel Bryan in the Triple Threat main event, drew 2.195 million viewers. This is the exact same as last week's 2.195 million viewers, which was the lowest SmackDown viewership since the Halloween 2017 episode.

[slik]

Not good ratings news for RAW , up slightly from last week's new low of 2.47 mil viewers, this week 2.52 mil viewers

-wrestlinginc

[Mr. Nerfect]

USA Network is basically paying $120 per viewer at this point.

[slik]

It isn't a shock to me RAW is facing some of the lowest ratings it's ever had on the USA Network while Constable Corbin, Bobby Lashley's Sisters and Roman vs. Jinder are things that exist.

[Jordan]

I know the horse has been beaten enough but I don't think ratings will ever rise up to levels they want while the show is 3 hours.

[slik]

Unless the USA Network has something that gets remotely what RAW, even at some of it's lowest ratings, gets in the 3rd hour -- it will continue to exist as well.

[#1-norm-fan]

USA needs to shell out big money to snag LOVE AND HIP HOP from VH-1.

[Emperor Smeat]

WWE's stink from RAW is really starting to rub off badly on Smackdown these past few weeks.

Last 3 weeks ended up being:
* Set new record low for 2018
* Tie record low for 2018
* Set new record low for 2018

Just 138k away from hitting a sub 2-million number.

[slik]

Really disappointed to hear SDLive hit a record low rating this week -- I blame RAW.

People are tuning out of watching RAW live and assuming SD is just as boring -- and it's not -- SD is good! Just 140k viewers away from being under 2 million.
:'( Get it together WWE.

[#1-norm-fan]

You can't blame Raw for Smackdown's ratings. They're both basically the same. Raw has more mainstream appeal but neither is stellar, compelling television. Smackdown's ratings are slipping because the writing is dull and boring and no one outside the IWC cares about AJ Styles' workrate to make up for it.

[Emperor Smeat]

You can't blame Raw for Smackdown's ratings. They're both basically the same. Raw has more mainstream appeal but neither is stellar, compelling television. Smackdown's ratings are slipping because the writing is dull and boring and no one outside the IWC cares about AJ Styles' workrate to make up for it.

Its been a theory of Meltzer ever since Smackdown became a live show on Tuesdays. He based it off audience percentages and bumps/declines with the idea of RAW acting as a lead-in for Smackdown.

Its not something definitive since its been proven wrong plenty of times but usually whenever streaks start to occur, RAW's impact on Smackdown becomes a lot more noticeable. RAW for the past several weeks has been very unwatchable and even though Smackdown itself has been more enjoyable, the numbers are not showing it. Even worse was the lack of a bump due to no NHL or NBA games on Tuesday.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SmackDown feels like a lame duck show. Sure, they've got some great talent there, but what the fuck are they doing? AJ Styles is too stupid to wear a cup; Nakamura is funny as a heel, but that shouldn't be the point; Samoa Joe is great at talking, but that seems to be all he does; Bryan is plugged into a program with Big Cass.

It's the same gentrified product as Raw, with no one allowed to stand out and run, therefore no one is really over and they aren't going to compel people to watch. In addition to that, SmackDown has been treated like the secondary show forever. When the brand extension was over, they would just run shit on SmackDown as a trial for Raw. It's appealing to internet fans because it seems "other" because it hasn't been a priority for WWE and people like to think of it as the "workrate show" or as some sort of underdog.

[Emperor Smeat]

Good/Bad news from this week's numbers for RAW.

The good being it went up by a sizeable amount and no more NBA/NHL playoffs games to worry about till next year.

The bad being even with the lack of competition, none of the hours hit the 3+ million mark and none of the hours took the #1 spot.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,730,000 viewers on USA Network, up from last week’s 2,525,000 viewers.

Raw was #2, #3, and #4 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night with no NBA competition, behind Love & Hip Hop Atlanta 7 (2,324,000) on VH1 ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,751,000
9PM: 2,812,000
10PM: 2,629,000

[slik]

The rating and viewership for this week’s episode of Raw rose to hit the highest point since the end of April. Monday night’s episode brought in a 0.98 rating in the 18 – 49 demographic and 2.903 million viewers. Those numbers are up 5% and 6% from last week’s 0.94 demo rating and 2.731 million viewers. Both metrics were the best for the show since the April 30th episode had a 1.08 demo rating and an audience of 3.066 million.

-tvbythenumbers

[Mr. Nerfect]

<1 demo rating. Wow.

[slik]

The show dropped from last week's viewership by about 300k but the ratings went up, instead of down, during the broadcast

Hr 1 - 2.5
Hr 2 - 2.6
Hr 3 - 2.7

overall - 2.6

RAW was #3 in the 18-49 demographic, behind Love & Hip-Hop and Basketball Wives.

- wrestlinginc

[slik]

SD did it's lowest rating since October 2017 -- 2.1
It was #1 in 18-49 demographics for the night on cable however for the 4th week.

- wrestlinginc

[slik]

RAW did 2.7 this week
SD did it's 2nd lowest rating, a 2.0

- wrestlinginc

[slik]

RAW had the lowest numbers of viewers it's had in the modern era, slightly lower than Election Night. Average viewing figure is 2.4 million.


http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0710/642628/this-week-wwe-raw-draws-lowest-viewership-in-history-for-the/

[poopfromweiner dude]

damn
,ratings in the tank

[#1-norm-fan]

Almost down half the audience from that Raw 25 show. lolWWE

[Emperor Smeat]

Considering football season is coming up soon, expect several more "lowest ever" records to get set this year.

WWE's biggest problem is they have no clue anymore how to build quality shows and carry that momentum for the long haul. Instead they pretty much are relying on people being bored on Mondays to be in the mood to watch wrestling.

[Jordan]

Time for a Vince appearance I bet.

[Jordan]

Probably going go be advertised for the Raw after Exteme Rules to “discuss the fate of the Universal Chpionship”.

[slik]

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[BigCrippyZ]

Almost down half the audience from that Raw 25 show. lolWWE

Good.

WWE deserves shitty ratings and shitty viewing numbers for the shitty product they consistently put out. I know they won't actually get bad enough to change anything, but I hope things gets worse and that attendance, merch, etc., all drop. Maybe then someone will have the bright idea to actually give a shit about having a consistent quality product instead of just putting out as many hours as possible of the horrible, overly scripted filler and nonsense they're fortunate to be able to currently do so well with.

Sure a downturn would likely hurt the talent personally, but it'd be better for everyone in the long run, talent included, if they were forced to improve the product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It'd serve them right if it got to the point it started to effect them (I imagine there are drop-out clauses for USA and FOX should ratings dip to a point that WWE aren't holding up their end). It's not as easy as putting effort in when things have already been damaged. When you burn an audience, you burn them good. Those people that checked out Raw 25 and didn't come back probably aren't going to come back anytime soon, and they are the people most likely to become the casual audience. Nope.

[Loose Cannon]

I stopped watching about 2 months ago. first time i completely stopped since i started 30 years ago. i still come on here and read the reports to see if anything major happened to at least keep up, but it just got so repetitive for me. I felt like i was seeing the same matches over and over again and it was just the most bland writing. Now i see they are planning two Wrestlemanias along with two Royal Rumbles. Like most are saying, it's too much of the same thing over and over

[Big Vic]

I haven't watched Raw in 2 weeks, tired of Roman Reigns feel like he's gonna main event E.R. and win. Not interested in that storyline.

[slik]

The comments on this topic on Reddit are really good/interesting IMO:


https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/8xtkr1/this_weeks_wwe_raw_draws_lowest_viewership_in/


No one has a story. They have things they do, and that’s it. Braun destroys things. Roman whines and gets opportunities. Balor smiles. Seth gets cheers from the crowd and wrestles well. No one has a STORY, just character traits (they’re lucky to even have character traits compared to some like Roode who’s just theme music and a robe). Imagine if instead of giving us the Kane storyline for example, they just wheeled out Undertaker everyweek and he talked about how his defining trait is being undead.



Give us a reason to watch. You treat it like a filler episode, we treat it like a filler episode.


-Kevin Owens has been reduced to a chubby little bitch

-Braun is overpowered but is in a holding pattern doing nothing important

-Nothing Finn Balor has done since he returned from the shoulder seth blew up has been relevant

-Deleters of Worlds are obvious transitional champs in a dead tag division (... but there are good tag teams) and are doing repetitive boring shit with the B Team

-Does Lashley + Reigns "matter" in the grand scheme of things since we know it's going to be Lesnar/Reigns #832?


Key phrase from that in my mind is holding pattern. It’s not just Braun, it’s literally the entire show.

Week 1: New feud established.
Week 2: Squashing other jobbers.
Week 3: Tag team match or how will they coexist?!!
Week 4: Match is ‘officially’ set up, even though writing was on the wall since week 1.
PPV: Feud stalls til bigger PPV or is resolved.
Week 5: PPV loser beats jobber. Winner repeats week 1.


And this was the go home show, too. Not only was it filler, but a lot of the "big" moments were tired repeats of things they've done too often. Particularly with Reigns & Lashley brawling & the entire locker room coming out to stop it.

It was hype when Taker and Lesnar did it. Kinda still hype the other few times Lesnar did it. Not as hype as they do it with Reigns and others.

It makes sense when you have two guys that have a History. Taker vs Lesnar had a lot of history going back to the ruthless aggression era and the streak being ended.

You can even make a case for Reigns vs Lesnar. But Lashley vs Reigns? It was so fucking forced.


Seth’s the reason to tune in. Like can you imagine Raw right now without a showcase from Rollins?

He’s performing at a higher level than anyone and bringing out the best in others too...unfortunately that’s like 20-30 minutes of a three hour show.


Not just filler, practically cut and paste from previous weeks. This past episode we had a pointless Ember/Liv rematch, the B-Team doing a skit that was funny the first time for the FOURTH week in a row, and a Mojo/Jose rematch that makes me wonder why we had two weeks of Mojo refusing to fight him in between. Not to mention the inexplicable three weeks in a row of Reigns/Lashley and Revival.


On the post-WM episode on April 9th, they had nearly 4 million people watching. Three months later, 40% of those people are gone.


The saddest part is they're squandering the best roster they've had in ages, maybe ever.


Seth just lost his title via a fucking rollup to a guy who hasn't been credible since Survivor Series 2014.


It's so weird that the being elite youtube show has more stories and story development than raw...


That's how they taught the fanbase how to watch, though. Summerslam, and Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania are the only important parts of the year.


The RAW after mania seems like the only RAW that’s worth watching anymore.


On USA this is still the highest rated program on their network. If Smackdown does this bad on Fox next year you bet your ass they're getting cancelled.


I've watched WWE for 25 years. I haven't watched a Raw or Smackdown in 5 months. WWE lost me. Which is a hard thing to do.


Like you, I've been watching WWE for a long while - since 1992. I watched Raw last night. I haven't watched Raw in nearly 2 months or so. After last night I remember why. It sucks.

Meanwhile NXT is fantastic. The way to produce an amazing wrestling show exists in the same company where 1994-era WWF has come back to life (minus Duke the Dumpster Drose).


With RAW there is hope that maybe, just maybe, one of your favorite wrestlers will actually go out and have a meaningful killer match. There are so many people at their disposal that they should be making the most exciting product in all of television, and they don’t. It just keeps getting worse.


Good. Any show that clearly showcases low effort, dull storylines that don't go anywhere and have zero payoff, repeated confrontations and nonsensical character development deserves no other treatment. There's no excuse for sudden and unexplained face and heel turns, a nonexistent top champion and laughably bad angles like Lashley's sisters. There's no reason to tune in the following week because there's nothing that's must-see, despite their incredible roster.

WWE has been arrogant for years, thinking they'd never really lose viewers, but they've never been this careless about their own product, at least not in recent memory. RAW has been running on autopilot for a long time but it's particularly bad this year. It's a good thing that mentality is coming back to bite them - if they actually care, that is. Either way, I do hope this trend of people not blindly watching a show anymore continues.


They finally got me, a fan of over 30 years who stuck with it through many ups and downs, to stop caring and not bother watching anymore.

I watched almost every single Monday night, either live or recorded, and while my interest in other shows always waned, I was never willing or able to give it up because I always believed SOMETHING might happen and I didn’t want to miss it.

I’ve gone several weeks without watching or recording, and I don’t feel I’ve missed anything.


mojo rawley vs. no way jose? really?


You mean last week's show of "Roman and Lashley fight the Revival again in a flatlining feud" and "Sasha and Bayley have finally snapped so let's put them in comedy skits" didn't make viewers want to watch more?

[slik]

SD did 2.1 million viewers, up from last week's low of 2.0 million viewers

- wrestlinginc

[xrodmuc316]

Anybody who thinks ratings matter at all doesn't understand TV. As long as they are able to sell ads, and doesn't cause scandals, it is a homerun. Until advertisers stop buying the ads, ratings don't mean shit.

The fact that the show is live is the best bet for advertisers, cause then no fast forwarding commercials.

The only way the poor ratings might mean is maybe WWE and Vinces ego will motivate him to do better.

Honestly though, at 71 and having $3 Billion, and being solid for essentially the next 6 years, Vince probably is gonna sit back and relax even more.

[slik]

Ratings determine how much a network can charge for ad rates. That is why The Super Bowl can charge 3 million for 30 seconds.

[xrodmuc316]

Ratings determine how much a network can charge for ad rates. That is why The Super Bowl can charge 3 million for 30 seconds.

Correct, but that is the extreme. There are enough advertisers wanting their commercial on a live show that the rating doesn't matter if it is a 5 or a 2.

I agree at some point if the ratings dropped enough advertisers would not pay the premium.

My point is that as long as the network can make money from ads, they will be happy, hence why even with garbage ratings WWE still sold their programming for $2 billion+.

[#1-norm-fan]

The more people watching, the more valuable advertising is. A show consistently pulling in 5 million people is more valuable than the same show pulling in 2. It's just common sense. You can argue the point that the ratings can drop to before they really have to worry about actually having money problems but the idea that it doesn't matter is silly.

[slik]

I honestly look at ratings as a sign of longtime die hard viewers 'giving up' on WWE -- while WWE isn't exactly endearing themselves to the under 18 demo they need to replace those who give up WWE as their new 'lifelong fans' who watch no matter what.

Dropping 500K in viewers each year on average doesn't mean those 500k viewers all of sudden started watching clips online or read the results -- a fraction will -- but many will just 'stop watching' altogether. WWE isn't something most people start watching in their 20's, 30's, 40's -- it starts when they are young.

[Emperor Smeat]

Correct, but that is the extreme. There are enough advertisers wanting their commercial on a live show that the rating doesn't matter if it is a 5 or a 2.

I agree at some point if the ratings dropped enough advertisers would not pay the premium.

My point is that as long as the network can make money from ads, they will be happy, hence why even with garbage ratings WWE still sold their programming for $2 billion+.

At some point WWE is going to kill their image as a reliable provider of live content if numbers keep declining. Having small spikes here and there mean nothing if its not sustainable in the long run. Its one of the big reasons why WCW folded since their brand wasn't seen valuable anymore for tv.

FOX and NBC won't be in any rush to toss WWE out due to the money they are paying but unlike USA Network, they already have shows that easily outperform WWE's stuff. Only advantage WWE has is not needing breaks for "seasons" or in general. NBC has also already shown they have no issue getting rid of WWE stuff if they feel its too much of a hassle to keep (ex. Saturday Night Main Event revival, Mania highlights show, Smackdown).

[Mr. Nerfect]

It seems people have already handled this, but the ratings (and other things) determine how valuable ad placement on those shows is. Wrestling faces a problem, because it actually has more trouble selling ad space than things with a lower rating. Their placement in the demo ratings is probably more important than the specifics between a 2 and 2.1 million viewers, but eventually advertisers will say "wrestling is shit," which is when television networks will say "wrestling is shit."

[Emperor Smeat]

RAW managed to rebound well this week partially due to the post-PPV bump. Interestingly though is this week actually managed to do worse rankings wise since last week was a 2,3,5 split and this week was a 2,5,6 for hour splits.

Next week is going to be a tossup since it won't have the post-PPV bump to help bail out the numbers but also won't have a major sports game(s) going on either I think.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,866,000 viewers on USA Network, up from last week’s 2,470,000 viewers (which was the lowest in Raw history).

Raw was #2, #5 and #6 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night, behind the Home Run Derby on ESPN at #1 (5,567,000), VH1’s Love & Hip Hop Atlanta 7 on VH1 at #3 (2,048,000) and the MLB Celebrity Softball Game on ESPN at #4 (2,542,000) ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 3,118,000
9PM: 2,859,000
10PM: 2,622,000

[slik]

SD had 2.2 million viewers, up from last week's 2.1 million viewers.

-wrestlinginc

[Emperor Smeat]

This week's RAW managed to do worse than last week although was also the rare time where the show didn't suffer a big drop in female viewers. WWE teasing a big announcement and rumors spreading it was women related likely played a big role in them keeping the female viewership through the show.

RAW also lost out to its blood rival Love & Hip Hop for rankings stuff.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,779,000 viewers on USA Network, down from last week’s 2,866,000 viewers.

Raw was #2, #3 and #4 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night, behind Love & Hip Hop Hollywood 5 on VH1 (2,119,000) ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,817,000
9PM: 2,821,000
10PM: 2,701,000

An interesting note, which is very much the exception to normal patterns, is that the women audience was more loyal, and actually grew, while the male audience was the one less interested as the show went on.

In women 18-49, the first-to-third hour growth was 10 percent while the male drop was one percent. With teenage girls, the first-to-third hour growth was 15 percent while the male drop was seven percent.

[#1-norm-fan]

So people tuned out for Roman's #1 contender match. Shocker.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The male audience has been tuning out for a while now. Surprised that women actually stuck around. I expect that to change.

[xrodmuc316]

How awesome is it that Miz and Mrs just got double the number of viewers as Total Bellas. I hope Miz trolls Daniel Bryan with this on Smackdown next week lol

[slik]

SD ratings went up this week to 2.34

Miz and Mrs did 1.47 million


-wrestlinginc

[owenbrown]

owenbrown = ratings :shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

That is a premier episode. It's a great number though. I imagine everyone is very happy with that. I imagine Rusev and Lana will be next.

[slik]

RAW did a 2.8 this week

-wrestlinginc

[Emperor Smeat]

Hourly decline from start to finish this week wasn't that bad overall at around 100k but since RAW started off with lower numbers, pretty much was a guaranteed to be a bad week.

[slik]

SD did a 2.1 rating, down from 2.4 last week

-wrestlinginc

[Emperor Smeat]

This week's RAW managed to set the dubious record of lowest ever viewed show in RAW history when not counting holidays or taped episodes.

That yearly drop might be the biggest ever as well.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,349,000 viewers on USA Network, down from last week’s 2,672,000 viewers.

That’s the lowest viewer number in WWE Raw history, beating out the previous low of 2,470,000 for the July 9, 2018 episode.

Raw was #4, #6 and #7 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night ...

This time last year, the September 25, 2017 Raw drew 2,923,000 viewers. The September 26, 2016 Raw drew 2,478,000 viewers.

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,493,000
9PM: 2,275,000
10PM: 2,281,000

[Mr. Nerfect]

The big story there is the placement with the demo. That's going to be a bigger gauge to how the product is faring with USA than anything else, because if the demo mark-up stays in line, they are still the best for advertising. They're actually losing their appeal with that, and it's not just an analogous television decline.

[Mr. Nerfect]

#4, #6 and #7 means that other things were #1, #2, #3 and #5. WWE has not been in that position for a long time, and other things have not had that opportunity in a long time.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well football is responsible for the top few spots which happens every year. It’s more concerning that they struggle to beat Love and Hip Hop. I also noticed Smackdown has it’s own competition that beat it last week in the form of some show I’d never heard of. They used to crush all the non-sports competition. Even when they had another wrestling show eating into their rating.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, I don't follow football season, so I didn't know that. I'm still hopeful for their decline. I want to see change.

[Emperor Smeat]

In terms of actual ratings, last Monday's episode was around a 1.64 and WWE likely will hit a new all-time record low either later this year or around this time next year if current trends continue.

The current record is a 1.5 rating from a December 23, 1996 episode of RAW.

In terms of comparisons with WCW, RAW already has a few episodes that have been lower than the worst ever rated episode of Nitro (1.75).

[Mr. Nerfect]

I find it hard to find the ratings as opposed to the viewership, which I always assumed was because it sounds much worse than having 2.5 million viewers or whatever. Which has always been a more salient point when discussing ratings, because yes, while viewership is going down, the ratings are going down too. They're losing a share of the audience. And while there are more options on cable than they might have been during the Monday Night Wars, with television dying they are still losing ground.

[Emperor Smeat]

Based on what I remember and some really rough math, think the current system might be a 1.0 rating equals around 1.6 million viewers for WWE's shows.

Whole thing gets confusing at times since different equations are used depending on the demo group and if your show is on cable or network tv. Then you have the different hours which I think also have their own weight for ratings.

Viewership is also a lot more fickle so the only real way to know if a show is a real hit or heading towards disaster is via the ratings numbers since its a lot less fluid.

[Emperor Smeat]

https://i.imgur.com/X0m4BBi.gif

Took a week for WWE to break their record for least viewed episode in RAW history.

1st hour started out low and then went all downhill afterwards.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,302,000 viewers on USA Network, down from last week’s 2,349,000 viewers.

That’s again the lowest viewer number in WWE Raw history, “beating” last week’s previous all-time low.

Raw was #6, #7 and #8 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,500,000
9PM: 2,325,000
10PM: 2,081,000

[slik]

"You deserve it"

clap-clap-clap-clap-clap

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is that third hour still performing the best in terms of placement? A while ago I used to check on it, because I want it gone, haha, and it was actually by far comparatively the best performing hour because there's less on television at that time -- so tough titties to it being cut. But it's coming dangerous close to dropping below that magic 2 million viewer line...

[#1-norm-fan]

lol Fuck WWE

[Emperor Smeat]

Is that third hour still performing the best in terms of placement? A while ago I used to check on it, because I want it gone, haha, and it was actually by far comparatively the best performing hour because there's less on television at that time -- so tough titties to it being cut. But it's coming dangerous close to dropping below that magic 2 million viewer line...
Going by the weekly rankings, probably since even with the diminishing returns aspect, it still manages to place in the Top 10 outside of rare exceptions.

The real number is actually a lot lower since that 3rd hour also includes the 11PM over-run. It used to be RAW's strongest hour but lack of consistent quality and audience attrition made that no longer the case.

[xrodmuc316]

Ratings don't matter like they used to, but it is no coincidence that viewers are skipping Raw more because they have been in cruise control since they got their huge money deals.

In addition they have the huge money deal from the Saudis, a big money show in Australia, and hyping a separate charity every month while also constantly pushing the narrative of how great a company they are for showcasing women, I can see why they are just coasting.

That being said, at some point they are going to have produce better television if they want to stop losing viewers.

Raw doesn't feel like destination TV. You could have skipped the last 3 weeks and the only thing you would have missed at all is subtle teasing that Ambrose might be considering bailing on the Shield and that Lashley got a manager for some reason, and no they never explained it at all, it just is.

Other than that, you could pick right back up where you left off in early September.

[DrA]

What was the lowest Monday Nitro ever did?

[Emperor Smeat]

1.75 from an episode in December 2000.

[xrodmuc316]

What was the lowest Monday Nitro ever did?

1.7 rating, so about 2 Million people

[#1-norm-fan]

Back in the 90's college kids used to have "Raw parties" and "Nitro parties".

Can you imagine a Raw party in 2018? I imagine it would end with a mass suicide by the time the second hour was over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

People used to have Raw parties, meaning the show didn't need to be on in all but one of their homes, and yet they were still killing it. Now most people would ask "You watch that crap? You know it's fake, right?" And this is why indy geeks think it's a good idea to show that it's obviously fake, but that's even worse.

Doug Stanhope said about royal families: "Oh, they don't really do anything. They're more figureheads." You do realize how that is worse, right?

[#1-norm-fan]

Feel bad for people who didn't experience the hectic energy of wrestling on Monday nights in the mid-late 90's. It was insane.

[xrodmuc316]

Feel bad for people who didn't experience the hectic energy of wrestling on Monday nights in the mid-late 90's. It was insane.

To think at the absolute height of it between Raw and Nitro together they were getting a combined total rating topping 12, which is Damn near 20 million people.

[LibSuperstar]

To think at the absolute height of it between Raw and Nitro together they were getting a combined total rating topping 12, which is Damn near 20 million people.

It's astounding. But former writer Tommie Casiello explained on Twitter that WWE focuses on the demos rather than the full number the other day.

[slik]

RAW drew 2.374 million viewers. This is up 3% from last week's 2.302 million viewers, which was a new historic low for the show. This week's number is the third lowest viewership in the history of the show.

- wrestlinginc.com

[Emperor Smeat]

Good/Bad news from this week's RAW numbers.

The good being WWE managed to stop the historic low slide and the bad being this week still managed to be the 3rd worst of all-time.

WWE was really lucky Drew Brees breaking an NFL record happened early into the MNF game and the Red Sox vs Yanks MLB playoff game was over very early as a competitive game since RAW's numbers could have been even worse.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,373,000 viewers on USA Network, up from last week’s all-time-low 2,302,000 viewers.

That’s still the third lowest viewer number in Raw history, only beating last week’s 2,302,000 and the week before’s 2,350,000 ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,533,000
9PM: 2,388,000
10PM: 2,200,000

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know if I'll call a one-week increase definitively stopping the slide. It was coming off a PPV which involved drama involving Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Undertaker, Kane, etc. Maybe some of the surprise returns -- Trish Stratus, Kurt Angle, Paul Heyman, etc. will help make things interesting and get people back, but I think what's going to be more interesting is how the number next week does, and whether or not that equates to generate interest.

[Emperor Smeat]

Another Good/Bad news week for RAW.

The good being it went up again and the bad being it still managed to be 4th worst viewed show of all-time. Those 2 weeks where WWE set historical low records did a ton of damage to RAW's general interest.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,396,000 viewers on USA Network, up from last week’s 2,373,000 viewers.

That’s still the fourth lowest viewer number in Raw history, only beating the last three weeks of shows ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,490,000
9PM: 2,482,000
10PM: 2,216,000

[slik]

3rd hour drop not as bad as it has been it seems.

Interesting.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Coming off a show with a bunch of returns last week, it makes sense it is up. Still shocking though. I don't imagine they're about to get more good wiil, and the show this week sounded awful. I'm going to predict that next week's is a drop.

[Emperor Smeat]

This week managed to have a sizeable bump even though rankings-wise, its still struggling to get back to its usual spots.

Also the rare time where 9PM was the strongest hour and likely due to the people tuning in during the show to know more about Reigns' situation and if it was legit or just another cheap attempt by Vince to get Reigns cheered.

Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,548,000 viewers on USA Network, up from last week’s 2,396,000 viewers.

Raw was #4, #5 and #7 on cable in the 18-49 demographic for the night ...

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,609,000
9PM: 2,622,000
10PM: 2,413,000

[slik]

No Roman, No Viewers



wrestlinginc:

Monday's WWE RAW, featuring fallout from WWE Evolution and the final build for WWE Crown Jewel, drew 2.4 million viewers. This is down 3% from last week's 2.5 million viewers.

[Big Vic]

Wow.................shocked............


I guess Pats/Bills were closer than expected but I expected some type of jump.

[XL]

Tbf it went back to the level of the week prior. I suspect they got a bump last week with people tuning in to get the news about Roman/see what WWE did to react.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm interested to see how the WWE doing Crown Jewel affects their ratings, if at all. I'm inclined to speculate that it won't, but when the WWE does the show, maybe it becomes news? Not just left-wing social commentary news, but maybe when they actually do a show from Saudi Arabia, it sets into audiences? I can imagine there are some people that just don't give a shit, but I'm sure there are some people who are like "they won't do it" or are like "I'll believe it when I see it," and then will be like "oh, fuck, they actually did it!" If WWE does a propaganda video, that is going to get air time.

Fuck it, this could be great.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think the vast majority of people still watching Raw every week at this point probably don’t care. I just can’t see the crossover audience between WWE and passionate political activists being all that huge.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think the current fans they are pretty much guaranteed to get watching will boo or don't like crown jewel, but will watch it on the network and not tune out to boycott because they really don't give a shit in the long run.

Other than John Oliver shitting on them and some bad press, the Saudi show is unlikely to have a negative impact on them long term, imo.

[Big Vic]

Raw started off higher... was just sooo meh all through out.

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,723,000
9PM: 2,455,000
10PM: 2,237,000

[slik]

Average Viewership - 2.37 million

Hr 1 - 2.61
Hr 2 - 2.38
Hr 3 - 2.11


Third hour nearly dropped below 2 million.


credit - wrestlinginc

[slik]

Meltzer w/ more on SD and RAW Ratings for the week in this week's Observer:

https://i.imgur.com/IfNGyEI.png

[#1-norm-fan]

“The return of Becky Lynch” lol. How long was she gone?

[slik]

WWE RAW did a record low rating this week, averaging at 2.28
Hourly breakdown:

1 - 2.26
2 - 2.39
3 - 2.19

SDLive might top RAW in the ratings this week. 1st hour is also the least watched first hour of RAW in the three hour telecast history.

credit - TPWW.net

[slik]

I could see RAW dipping below 2 million on both Dec. 24th and Dec. 31st, which are both Mondays this year.

Note - last year this week RAW did a 2.8 rating...I think the low ratings will continue until the build to the Royal Rumble begins.

[Sepholio]

Not to hit a man while he's down, but I bet you Vince is sitting there like "SEE! I told all of you Roman was a big draw for us!"

[XL]

How does the year-on-year drop compare to recent weeks?

[xrodmuc316]

I mean a main event with Tamina Snuka in 2018, what the hell did Vince expect.

[Outsider]

Not knowing American TV well, how does the ratings RAW gets compare to other programmes in that timeslot on different days?

How low does RAW have to go before it becomes a risk of their current/future networks deciding they can put something better in that slot?

Genuine question, as American networks very different to what we have here.

[slik]

RAW is one of the top twenty shows on Cable each week. RAW will do fine unless it ever drops below a million.

[slik]

How does the year-on-year drop compare to recent weeks?

RAW has, on average, lost 300,000 - 400,000 viewers a year for the last few years each year.


12/9/2013
RAW
4,218,000 - 1st hr
4,177,000 - 2nd hr
4,062,000 - 3rd hr

[Outsider]

RAW is one of the top twenty shows on Cable each week. RAW will do fine unless it ever drops below a million.

:y:

[Destor]

NFL ratinngs are down....mlbs ratings are down...nbas ratings are down...its almost like the medium is dying

[#1-norm-fan]

WWE’s ratings are falling at a faster rate than any other sport. That’s an issue.

[XL]

RAW has, on average, lost 300,000 - 400,000 viewers a year for the last few years each year.


12/9/2013
RAW
4,218,000 - 1st hr
4,177,000 - 2nd hr
4,062,000 - 3rd hr

I was more wondering if they’d been losing say 5% vs 2017 in the previous 6 weeks, and this week was 10%. Or if they’ve been losing X number of viewers every week and this was a significant fall?

Basically, did last week’s show result in more people than usual choosing not to tune in?

[slik]

Thanks a lot RAW!


SD had 1.94 million viewers this week, down from last week’s 2.26 million.

That’s the second lowest in SmackDown Live history, only beating the November 8, 2016 episode (1.92), which was the night of the US presidential election. This time last year SD had 2.49 million viewers.

- tpww.net

[Destor]

WWE’s ratings are falling at a faster rate than any other sport. That’s an issue.

Id like to see some data on that if you have it. Also be worth to see how it tracks against lpime time tv.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wouldn't say the sky is falling, but if the bottom drops out, I think it will drop out rather suddenly. Things will be fine until they aren't.

[slik]

RAW did it's (new) lowest rating EVER last night.



Rating - 2.19

Hr 1 - 2.34
Hr 2 - 2.18
Hr 3 - 2.04

credit - showbuzz daily / tpww.net

[slik]

Tuesday’s episode of SmackDown Live drew 1.97 million viewers.


That’s the third lowest in SDLive history, only beating last week and the November 8, 2016 episode, which was the night of the US presidential election. This time last year, the episode of SmackDown Live drew 2.48.

credit - tpww.net /showbuzz daily

[Destor]

Revenue is up 14%

WWE is "on path to exceed the financial targets established at the start of the 2017 year."

WWE "expects another year of record revenue and profits." "Operating income was $33.9 million.

Funny how the ratings seem to have nothing to donwith success...man...why arent those ratings hurting business?

...could they be a dated metric?

[Destor]

Stock more than doubled this yesr too

[Tom Guycott]

The thing I don't get is how are they still living and dying by ratings, and yet, The Network is a thing? Like, they don't give a shit about PPV numbers anymore, which are also something that they cannibalized themselves...

Throwing away the portion of the downturn that is contributed to by really lazy writing and shitty booking, are they even factoring in the fact that someone might be looking at the show on their tablet instead of The USA Network? Or DVR? Or after the fact on Hulu (if they still even do that I don't know I haven't used Hulu in years)? It isn't like the Monday Night War era where not watching generally really meant not watching.

It may be a dated metric, but for some reason, it's a dated metric they really care about for some reason.

[slik]

Yes, they use all those things and the Live + 7 for DVR. WWE doesn't generally rise much with those after the initial rating.

[Destor]

They arent living or dieing by ratings. I dont know why you think that. Theyre not using those numbers to judge anything. And theyre right not to.

If you think ratings are something theyre watching then what efforts have you seen them make in response to these numbers?

Its 2018. If you're thinking ratings matter youre a luddite.

[Destor]

Facts are networks are throwing bags of money at them. Do you think they dont see the ratings? Times have changed. These arent relevent anymore.

[slik]

Continually doing record low ratings and having consistent drops in live attendance is a bad thing for wwe. I don't understand why that's hard to grasp. Less people viewing a product doesn't make them more money in the future.


Ratings and Attendance have dropped 20-25% in the last year and is finally eating into their biggest demographic, the old fans (the +50 age demo is the largest viewership of WWE). "But they made more money"...and that won't continue if this trend does...


There is this bizarre attitude some seem to have that WWE is "too big to fail". They aren't, at all. I've long suspected the upswing would lead to the exact opposite at some point. "But they have 6 hrs of TV a week and more ppvs and tickets cost more and they are trying to make nxt everywhere and the roster is so talented"


All it took was for that small number of people they pushed to get injured and the bad creative and all these things people claimed were positives are slowly drifting towards being liabilities. Boom. No one is too big too fail. If SD on FOX flops FOX has no obligation to keep airing it. WWE doesn't get a billion dollars over 5 years no matter what. That's not how TV works. FOX could even send it to FS1 (Fox Sports 1) at a much less price. FS1 isn't in as many homes as USA Network and does an average rating of 500,000. Something like WWE would probably double that, but 1 million vs 2 million is far less eyeballs. FOX is going to care about the 18-50 viewing demographic, as that is prime real estate for advertisers. Advertisers are how TV Networks make money. If that viewership performs poorly then FOX won't make as much money having to sell ads to BENGAY and LIFE INSURANCE as they would to companies that appeal to people with traditionally more expendable income.


When WWE moves SD to FOX they will likely ship their big names to SD. FOX is in more homes than USA so the opportunity for exposure is much greater.The brands will stay separate bc why would FOX want to promote talent on a NBC cable station like USA? Why would FOX want something that aired on their network to have resolution on a cable channel instead of FOX? When that happens I expect RAW to tank further via having fewer big names and all the same creative problems it has had for a couple years. Nothing indicates WWE is going to wildly change their creative direction or feels interested in doing so. Also of great importance: the trend for WWE is to lose fans and not regain them. That has been the defacto trend in viewership the last 5-6 years.


They don't replace them with new fans either. Children are not likely going to see a cilp on social media or channel surfing and become addicted to WWE. How could they? What characters does WWE have? When you think of your time watching WWE growing up if someone said MACHO MAN or UNDERTAKER or VAL VENIS or BIG BOSSMAN you instantly know the character and who they are. What is Bobby Lashley's character? What is Seth's? Drew? Does Finn have a character or just have an entrance? So few wrestlers today have characters. And the sheer amount of programming available isn't going to entice new fans to watch, it's going to overwhelm them and turn them off.


Ratings DO matter. That's how they got the billion dollar deal. WWE promoted a consistent viewership who tunes in, no matter, week after week. TV stations love that in today's media. It's the same reason film studios make sequels and remakes so often -- there's an existing base for the product. What is happening is WWE is starting to slowly erode that base. THAT is a problem.


Hopefully when they move to FOX the notes they receive from network executives steer Vince into a cohesive show that is new-viewer friendly. Hopefully airing what will be your flagship show on a Friday night, a terrible night for television viewing, doesn't hurt them. Hopefully between now and then they don't continue to erode their base audience. At this rate the only show with a hope of cracking above 2.6 or 2.7 million viewers in 2019 is the RAW after WM. WWE's ratings will go up from mid-January thru WM season. The thing to watch will be how much. They aren't going to jet to 3 million. A million more eyeballs won't tune in than are now. The losing of viewers have been steady.


There is a chance ratings continue to nosedive until Oct 2019 when the SD move happens. There is a chance SD flops. There is a chance RAW flops when SD gets most of the big names. Say SD gets sent to FS1, the big names go back to RAW, but it's too late, the viewers don't tune back in, that's the consistent trend. There's a real chance the viewing audience if all this happens could be a million to a million and a half. There's a chance the XFL could flop for Vince as well.


One of the biggest mistakes WCW made was thinking it was too big to fail and the ratings/money wouldn't end. And going to three hour Nitros.


TV Ratings do matter.

[xrodmuc316]

I'm the guy who always made the argument that ratings don't mean very much today, certainly not like 20 years ago.

That being said, even I think the levels they have fallen this past month are alarming.

I don't know if Vince got the new TV deals and decided to coast for a few months, if he is preoccupied with the XFL, if he is just such an egomaniac he thinks he can just flip the switch anytime he wants, if he thinks the fans are so dumb that having Seth complain in one promo is gonna trick us into thinking this has played out exactly how he booked it, or what.

I know WWE will ramp it up for Mania, then have a a chance to keep the momentum going heading into the summer, but every week they put out trash shows and lose viewers, they are digging a larger hole they have to climb out of to win the viewers back.

[slik]

If ratings don't matter than why does The Super Bowl charge millions for thirty second ads? It can't be because ratings determine advertising fees and that is one of the major sources of income for a TV Network.

If ratings don't matter then why do tv shows no one watches get cancelled; why don't they just stay on the air forever?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Sry Slik you just need to get on Destor's level.

[Big Vic]

SDL is up!

[Destor]

Sry Slik you just need to get on Destor's level.

You say this as a joke but you really really do.

This is about percentages. Not numbers. The pie has shrunk and that has INCREASED the value. A 2.8 in 2018 is better than a 8.4 in 1998. If that very basic principle loses you I dont know how to have a conversation about mathematics. I cant walk you through a decade of econ on TPWW.

The stock is soaring. Its insane. But you guys are worried about ratings. you're stuck in the past and you dont understand how the market has shifted.

The networks do. And theyve deemed this among the most valuable programs in existence. What do you think you know that they dont?

[Destor]

The gate being down is an issue but thats another conversation.

[Destor]

Ratings will not effect cash flow; this doesnt matter

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lmfao

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Tell me Destor, do you happen to wear a fedora? If so, it would explain a lot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ratings aren't the be-all end-all like they were during the Monday Night War or the expansion of WWF in the late 90s, but they do matter. WWE is making so much money largely because they are getting thrown these giant bags of money for their television content. If people aren't going to watch it then that is going to dry up, which means other revenue streams, which are dwindling, are going to matter so much more.

I think it's quite narrow-minded to assume that things are going to go up, and up and up for the company just because they are doing well right now. That television landscape is going to change even more. What happens to the stock if SmackDown flops on FOX and they don't get picked up at the end of those three years and they have to slide back onto cable for much smaller rights fees? What happens to the perception of the company should they lose international TV deals?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vince McMahon is coming back to "shake things up." So I wouldn't say it doesn't matter to them at all. There's something that they're doing.

[slik]

Vince boosts ratings, show lost 600,000 viewers between Vince and the third hour, but third hour is 400,000 more viewers than last week.



Overall Rating - 2.79

Hr 1 - 3.08
Hr 2 - 2.80
Hr 3 - 2.47

credit - showbuzzdaily

[xrodmuc316]

Yeah but they are a taped episode next week and will phone it in on New Years Eve, so whatever momentum they were hoping to build on is gonna be for nothing. The real test is gonna be the January 7th 2019 episode of Raw.

[Sepholio]

The January 7th episode will not be the test. They are going to be running head-to-head against the College Football Championship game. They are going to get slaughtered in the ratings that night and they already know it. It will be another phoned in episode.

The week after that is the one to watch imo.

[Savio]

The January 14th episode will not be the test. They are going to be running against a huge Duke/Syracuse College Basketball game and will get destroyed in the ratings.

The week after that is the one to watch imo.

[slik]

SD raised to a 2.21

-tpww.net

[xrodmuc316]

Sadly, the only thing the rating pop will mean to Vince is he doesn't need to create new stars, he just needs more McMahons...

[Mr. Nerfect]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to those numbers now that another promise has been broken.

[Innovator]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuQJde_XQAA0GJz.jpg:large

[Big Vic]

Sadly, the only thing the rating pop will mean to Vince is he doesn't need to create new stars, he just needs more McMahons...

The genetic jackhammer is back!

[slik]

RAW X-Mas Eve ratings were low, as expected due to holiday



Overall - 1.7 million viewers

Hr 1 - 1.75
Hr 2 - 1.78
Hr 3 - 1.78

credit - fightful.com

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's as expected, but it still follows the "people would rather do something else" mold. I mean, WWE did throw in the towel with it and we live in post-DVR world. But I don't think ratings like these are harmless. If people get used to not watching Raw live and realize they have a better time doing other things, well...

[Savio]

Lowest ever?

[slik]

Yeah

[Mr. Nerfect]

The show was #4 behind the NFL for the night, but they only got 0.55 share for the 18-49 demographic. As much as I find schadenfreude in their ratings getting lower and lower, that placement is probably the most important thing to them.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

mnf is over now

[slik]

SD topped RAW this week in the ratings with 1.9 million viewers and a .64 in the 18-49 demographic.

- fightful.com

[slik]

RAW stayed below 2 million viewers again for NYE.



Overall: 1.96 million viewers


Hr 1 - 2.03
Hr 2 - 2.02
Hr 3 - 1.84

[slik]

While the show will be live next week it is going up against the College Football Championship.

[Emperor Smeat]

In terms of hourly declines, RAW did pretty well considering how small it was but then again they were also starting off with poor numbers.

Wouldn't be surprised if next week's bounce due to no holidays and MNF games doesn't come close to bringing back to what they did 3 weeks ago. 500k seems way too much to get back in a week and the hyped up changes promised already lost a lot of its luster for RAW.

[RP]

They can pull another 1.1 million if they tweet out a Sasha/Bayley/Moon vs Riot Squad match for RAW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There are the obvious excuses for ratings decreasing over the holidays, but are people really going to miss watching Raw? These dips are never good news, even if they are expected, because you’re bound to lose some weekly viewers who realize that they don’t care and never come back.

[slik]

SD defeated RAW once again this week



SDLive had 2.09 million viewers

- showbuzzdaily

[Mr. Nerfect]

There have been special event anomalies where SmackDown has defeated Raw in recent memory, haven't there? But is this the first time in a while that Smackers has bested Raw? Honestly, as hot as Becky is getting and with them actually giving her the John Cena push now, I can see things staying pretty close. At least until she wins the Royal Rumble and jumps over to Raw.

[Emperor Smeat]

Yes but don't believe its ever happened twice in a row, at least since the first brand split era ended.

Even with the College football title game next week, slim chance the blue brand can pull it off for a third week in a row. Something like a 100-200k bounce should be enough for RAW to break that streak.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yes but don't believe its ever happened twice in a row, at least since the first brand split era ended.

Even with the College football title game next week, slim chance the blue brand can pull it off for a third week in a row. Something like a 100-200k bounce should be enough for RAW to break that streak.

Shit, that's what I meant to ask -- if this is the first time it happened two weeks in a row since Heyman booked. Not sure if this is good or SmackDown or bad for Raw or inconsequential.

[Emperor Smeat]

A lot more bad than good for both brands since Smackdown still heavily relies on needing a strong RAW to act as a lead in and isn't strong enough on its own to offset or carry RAW.

When Smackdown used to be on UPN & CW, it had some buffer against RAW's struggles due to having stronger Hispanic and African American markets that helped minimalize any losses RAW was causing to them. Pretty much helped keep the show at a more stable level in terms of viewership range while RAW was spiking a lot more harder in both directions.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They could be entering that situation again with FOX in a few months, but I can imagine casual fans liking this product. And there's not as much authentic representation as there once was. Rey Mysterio is around, but there's no Eddie Guerrero. Every Hispanic guy they push has this "Look! It's a Hispanic guy!" vibe to them.

[slik]

WWE RAW had 2.3 million viewers this week. Massive drops after the 1st hr of the show.

Hr 1 - 2.6
Hr 2 - 2.2
Hr 3 - 2.0

- showbuzzdaily

[Emperor Smeat]

One of those mixed Good/Bad type weeks.

The good being they got a nice sizable bump and that likely ends Smackdown's win streak.

The bad being they suffered a huge hourly drop as usual and got hammered in the rankings (7, 8, & 10) meaning viewers still didn't feel as interested in watching RAW after the college game turned into a blowout.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That 2 million viewer mark seems like a magic number. That being at 2 million for hour three means it’s probably going to dip further in coming weeks and months.

[slik]

SD did 2.09 million viewers this week

- showbuzzdaily

[Mr. Nerfect]

Same as last week?

[slik]

Yep

[slik]

RAW bounces back this week, with an average 2.7 million viewers.

Hr 1 - 2.7
Hr 2 - 2.6
Hr 3 - 2.7

credit - showbuzzdaily

[Emperor Smeat]

They got the predictable big bump from no more football on Mondays for a while but the bigger news is the 3rd hour doing very well.

Just proof that when WWE actually puts in the effort into making the 3rd hour interesting, people are more willing to stick around to watch the entire show.

[slik]

SD had 2.14 million viewers this week

- showbuzzdaily

[slik]

Raw lost 700,000 viewers from Hr 1 to Hr 3.
That has to be one of the biggest drops in the show's history



Avg - 2.46

Hr 1 - 2.84
Hr 2 - 2.40
Hr 3 - 2.14

credit - showbuzzdaily

[RP]

THE NEW ERA! IT'S WHAT THE FAN WANT!

[Emperor Smeat]

Raw lost 700,000 viewers from Hr 1 to Hr 3.
That has to be one of the biggest drops in the show's history

According to the Observer, that set a new record for worst ever drop. Previous record was an episode from October 2017.

[Loose Cannon]

people are real excited for the Rumble

[Evil Vito]

There aren't even any clear cut Rumble favorites. Rollins is the most heavily rumored name but even he's just been.......there.

[Emperor Smeat]

WWE did a pretty miserable job with the build to the Men's Rumble.

Of the two, Women's Rumble has more interest on paper because of the possible routes WWE can go and crowds actually being interested in both Women's champions. Even then, WWE did a lazy job building up that match as well.

[slik]

SD did 2.14 million viewers this week.

credit: showbuzzdaily

[slik]

RAW Rating dropped post-Rumble instead of rising

Hr 1 - 2.81
Hr 2 - 2.71
Hr 3 - 2.57

Avg - 2.69

credit - showbuzzdaily

[Emperor Smeat]

RAW actually went up compared to last week.

Its the yearly comparisons where it went down huge. Almost 700k less than last year's post-Rumble show and over 900k less than 2017's post-Rumble show.

[slik]

Will be interesting to see where it goes next week, now that the RR is over and both WM main events are announced.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't see them going up, because of TV the way it is, but it'd be a pleasant surprise if they did.

[slik]

SD did a 2.13 rating on Tuesday

credit - showbuzzdaily

[Mr. Nerfect]

So that one actually did go down?

[slik]

Yeah

[Mr. Nerfect]

That’s...not good.

[slik]

RAW rating is down from last week slightly




Hr 1 - 2.66
Hr 2 - 2.55
Hr 3 - 2.32

Avg - 2.51 million viewers

(credit - showbuzzdaily)

[slik]

Might sound odd to say as a big fan of WWE/pro-wrestling in general, but my gut instinct is ratings will continue to go down for WWE.

I think ROH, MLW are sustainable where they are at, but I could see IMPACT, NJPW in US not doing great tbh if WWE doesn't. Haven't heard a lot about NWA recently either.

[slik]

SDLive dropped going against the SOTU, 1.84 million viewers this week

credit - showbuzzdaily

[Emperor Smeat]

New all-time low for Smackdown's live era even though it does have the excuse of having to compete against the SOTU.

In terms of WWE itself, just an idiotic move by them to cool down what is arguably their hottest feud and star with the lame doctor storyline. Also doesn't help that WWE doesn't really have anything interesting going on for RAW and Smackdown besides the Bryan stuff and Men's Chamber feud.

[Fignuts]

Might sound odd to say as a big fan of WWE/pro-wrestling in general, but my gut instinct is ratings will continue to go down for WWE.

I think ROH, MLW are sustainable where they are at, but I could see IMPACT, NJPW in US not doing great tbh if WWE doesn't. Haven't heard a lot about NWA recently either.

I haven’t heard a lot about NWA in about 30 years.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Might sound odd to say as a big fan of WWE/pro-wrestling in general, but my gut instinct is ratings will continue to go down for WWE.

I think ROH, MLW are sustainable where they are at, but I could see IMPACT, NJPW in US not doing great tbh if WWE doesn't. Haven't heard a lot about NWA recently either.

I was actually going to add something like this to my last post, but decided not to for some reason. I just can’t see WWE’s ratings going up even if it gets good. I think they are somewhat locked into their slow decline.

[slik]

RAW was slightly down from last week in the ratings.

Hr 1 - 2.69
Hr 2 - 2.45
Hr 3 - 2.25

Avg - 2.46 million viewers

credit - showbuzzdaily

[slik]

For comparison, last year this week had 3.11 million viewers

[slik]

Kind of bizarre to think if this show drops another 300k viewers on average between now and WM it will be only slightly above 2 million a week.

[RP]

Clearly the lack of Jeff Jarrett hurt ratings.

[slik]

Where's Lacey Evans at???

[Emperor Smeat]

Where's Lacey Evans at???
Think she's shown up a few times on Main Event but mostly as just a jobber similar to Nikki Cross on RAW.

Her lack of tv time is probably a mix of her having a bad showing at the Rumble and Creating having nothing for her which is insane considering she was only called up a few weeks ago.

[slik]

This week SDLive had 2.03 million viewers, up from last week against the State of the Union.

credit - showbuzzdaily

[slik]

Big rebound for RAW



Hr 1 - 3.05
Hr 2 - 2.84
Hr 3 - 2.43

Avg - 2.77 million viewers

(credit - showbuzzdaily)

[Emperor Smeat]

Having a strong 1st hour really helped a lot considering more viewers tuned out of the show than last week.

[slik]

I'm going to try to incorporate this metric as well going forward


The most watched YT vids from RAW (as of now) this week were


Dean/Seth - 1.7 million
Baron/Braun - 1.2 million
Ronda/Ruby - 934,000

[slik]

The most watched YT vids from SDLive (as of now) this week were


DBry/Orton/Joe/Kofi/Styles/Hardy - 750,000
Mandy/Asuka - 456,000
Andrade/Aleister - 409,000

[slik]

SD has 2.27 million viewers this week, also up

credit - showbuzzdaily

[slik]

RAW got a ratings boost this week for live TV, up .15 from last week


Hr 1 - 3.17
Hr 2 - 2.92
Hr 3 - 2.64

Avg - 2.92 million viewers

credit - showbuzzdaily

[RP]

Will be interesting if word of mouth of the show actually being pretty good this week, will boost the ratings next week. I still expect them to shit themselves next week. They should bring Brock back next week.

[Rammsteinmad]

Yay, I CAN'T WAIT for Triple H and Batista to take up 45 minutes of Wrestlemania with video packages, entrances, and the slowest most plodding match ever! Two men 15 years past their primes who need to be carried to good matches. Great.

Can't believe some people are actually exited to see this.

[slik]

Lots of YT views for RAW this week


Batista Returns - 6 million

Roman/Seth save Ambrose - 5.5 million

Roman announces Cancer Remission - 2.7 million

Roman Returns - 2.5 million

Jinder Mahal/Birthday Cake - 1.9 million

Becky Arrested - 1.3 million

Ronda/Becky - 1.1 million

[slik]

SD went up .10 from last week



SDLive did a 2.15 rating
(credit - showbuzzdaily)

YT views were 1 million each for KO returning and KO/Kofi vs Dbry/Rowan

[Triple A]

Went down actually, last week was 2,269,000

[slik]

lol my bad

[mike adamle]

Yay, I CAN'T WAIT for Triple H and Batista to take up 45 minutes of Wrestlemania with video packages, entrances, and the slowest most plodding match ever! Two men 15 years past their primes who need to be carried to good matches. Great.

Can't believe some people are actually exited to see this.

Right now it's looking like the best match on the card. Pretty excited for a Batista return. Hope he brings some of that Drax persona in for WrestleMania. And Triple H always brings it. One of the most underrated wrestlers ever. Should be a great match.

[slik]

Raw ratings for this week (credit - showbuzzdaily)


2.77 average

Big drop by the 3rd hour

Hr 1- 3.06
Hr 2 - 2.79
Hr 3 - 2.48

[slik]

YT views for the episode


Shield reunites - 2.5 million

Ronda attacks Becky - 1.7 million

Roman promo - 1.1 million

HHH promo - 1.1 million

[Emperor Smeat]

Only way WWE is ever going to fix RAW's 3rd hour struggles is if they revamped their entire creative process for the show.

RAW has too much junk or useless filler going on and them losing the overrun hasn't lead to any real noticeable improvements for the 3rd hour.

[slik]

SD went up 10k viewers this week



SD did a 2.16 rating this week

credit - showbuzzdaily

[slik]

YT views for SD this week



Becky attacks Charlotte - 930k

[slik]

RAW up .5 from last week




RAW had 2.82 million viewers

Hr 1 - 2.84
Hr 2 - 2.87
Hr 3 - 2.75

(credit - showbuzzdaily)



YouTube views for RAW currently:

HHH/Batista - 1.3 million

Seth saves Roman - 1.1 million

Shield Farewell - 1 million

[#1-norm-fan]

Last week:

YT views for the episode

Shield reunites

This week:

YouTube views for RAW currently:

Shield Farewell

:lol:

[slik]

SD bounces slightly up as well



SDLive had 2.19 million viewers this week #WWE

- credit showbuzzdaily





Most watched segments on YouTube currently:

New Day confronts Vince - 860k
Orton & AJ Styles - 705k

[slik]

Slight drop this week



2.69 million viewers

Hr 1 - 2.81
Hr 2 - 2.71
Hr 3 - 2.56

credit - showbuzzdaily





Most watched YT segments for RAW this week so far:

What happened after RAW went off the air - 2.1 million
Drew/Brock - 833k
Ronda attacks security - 754k
Seth vs Drew - 637k
Batista promo - 625k

[slik]

For reference, Was a 3.31 last year this week

Down about 620,000 viewers

[Emperor Smeat]

Surprised 3rd hour wasn't lower considering it was pretty boring and meaningless even by RAW's standards.

WWE probably could have been averaging around that 3 million mark for RAW's Road to Mania had they not made a mess with RAW's hottest storyline (Becky-Ronda) and simply just took a page from Smackdown on how to build feuds that are actually interesting.

[xrodmuc316]

Surprised 3rd hour wasn't lower considering it was pretty boring and meaningless even by RAW's standards.

WWE probably could have been averaging around that 3 million mark for RAW's Road to Mania had they not made a mess with RAW's hottest storyline (Becky-Ronda) and simply just took a page from Smackdown on how to build feuds that are actually interesting.

3 hours and literally nothing happened.

[slik]

SDLive had 2.2 million viewers - credit showbuzzdaily


Most watched YT segments were:

Kofi vs Dbry - 718k
Kofi vs Orton - 633k

[slik]

RAW dropped 100k from last week



RAW had 2.59 million viewers.

Hr 1 - 2.70
Hr 2 - 2.67
Hr 3 - 2.40

credit - showbuzzdaily





Most watched YT vids from last night's RAW thus far

Dean vs Drew - 1.1 million
Roman accepts Drew's challenge - 1 million

[RP]

LOL it sucks bro

[RP]

Watching RAW episodes is like watching re-runs of Golden Girl episodes.

[slik]

770,000 less viewers than last year during this same week (last year was 3.36 million viewers at this time)

[Emperor Smeat]

Not surprised since outside of the Reigns return episode and maybe 1-2 other episodes at most, this year's Road to Mania wasn't interesting. Maybe the worst in years from how lazy WWE was.

Even with them having 2 ppvs to prevent burn out for Mania feuds, WWE still made a big mess with their biggest storylines and half-assed building up everything else for Mania.

[xrodmuc316]

I wonder who Vince is gonna blame this time. Not like he can storyline wise blame the ratings on Baron Corbin again. That was a one time option that they could play, and within 2 months they pissed away the chance to actually make some changes. Instead they seem worse off to me now then when Corbin was the GM.

It's 12 days until Wrestlemania, multiple champs don't have a match, including the freaking WWE Champion. They overcomplicated the most interesting match they had so much it's insane.

Becky vs Ronda was the main event based on the build and fan excitement. In 2 short months they WWE'ed it up so much that the only justification for it to actually be the main event is because it's a historic first, not because it feels like the hottest thing going anymore.

I feel no excitement for Rollins and Brock, Finn vs Brock was far more exciting.

Either Seth wins and is a transitional champion for Drew to Roman, or Brock retains again because if there isn't a massive boost to the guy that beats him, then why beat him. Have him keep the belt and build somebody else to beat him at the next Saudi show.

Even Kofi, he is still super over, but they are really close to WWE'ing this one too. He got over naturally, and instead of just riding that wave, they had to make it about how Vince McMahon doesn't want a black champion without actually coming out and saying it, in a rehash of WWE doesn't want a small guy like Daniel Bryan as champion. 2014 = small, 2019 = black, and to WWE fans are too stupid to recognize that it's the same recycled storyline instead of simply letting it be about Kofi catching fire and becoming a star.

WWE has been nothing but incredibly lazy since they got their new TV deals. Either they are purposely in a holding pattern the last 12 months and will continue to be the next 6 months, wanting to make sure they have good TV for once their new deals start, or they got the new deals, saw their stock skyrocket, and just said "fuck it, we are super rich now and no longer have to put in any effort because who cares, we are set for years".

[#1-norm-fan]

Not surprised since outside of the Reigns return episode and maybe 1-2 other episodes at most, this year's Road to Mania wasn't interesting. Maybe the worst in years from how lazy WWE was.

WASN’T? That’s it? Is WrestleMania this weekend!?!

[#1-norm-fan]

Alright. Still one more week to go apparently. Still. Roman Reigns vs Drew McIntyre is a WrestleMania match. Holy shit, this is bad.

[#1-norm-fan]

Is Kofi vs Daniel Bryan official? I at least like the story behind that from what I’ve seen.

Obviously the mystique of WrestleMania has slowly been declining year after year for the past decade+ but this year it just jumped off a fucking cliff.