Ratings Thread

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don't people usually go nuts about the AEW demos even when the viewership is shit? Why is it the viewership with SmackDown and not that giant sexy demo?

[Emperor Smeat]

Network shows are treated different than cable shows when it comes to ratings.

Network usually does way better when it comes to that stuff because everyone pretty much has all the network channels while cable channels is more dependent on the provider. That's why Showbuzz and Nielsen keeps them separate for ratings reports.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can understand why they'd be kept separate -- one is network and one is cable. But why is a demo audience important to one but not the other?

[Emperor Smeat]

Ad rates for network shows are usually higher which is why those shows tend to cost more to make and/or get canceled quicker if they don't meet the higher demands.

With Smackdown, FOX needs a higher key demo average than usual to offset the huge sums of money they spent for the show and to counter wrestling bringing in less ad money than other sports or entertainment shows. Its why FOX's original expectations were around 3-4 million and a constant 1.0 average since they felt both would at least let them break even on ad money.

[slik]

2.34 million average


https://i.postimg.cc/Dzrr3vBK/Screenshot-2020-03-17-at-5-10-04-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

172k increase is good but doesn't seem like they are really taking advantage of the situation.

Probably should have been larger considering the current circumstances for television and even in these times, 3rd hour still dragging the numbers down.

Wouldn't be surprised if this week's SD and next week's RAW doesn't have a noticeable bump since WWE already showed the format they are sticking with for the time being. NXT made the smart decision to change their format for this week's show due to the circumstances.

[Emperor Smeat]

NXT got hammered big time for last night's AEW vs NXT shows.

AEW got 932k viewers, #20 ranking, and a 0.35 rating in the key demo

NXT got 542k viewers, a #81 ranking, and a 0.16 rating in the key demo.

News shows still dominated the rankings but AEW had sizeable increases in a several key demo areas and steady elsewhere or smaller increases.

Since NXT didn't rank in the Top 50, the demo breakdowns were not listed.

[slik]

#81 for NXT surprises me, they lost to a Paddington cartoon. The number of viewers sounds about right for a recap show.

I hope AEW cracks 1 million soon, they've been on a roll and deserve it.

[slik]

The only non-news shows in the top twenty Tuesday night were Real Housewives of New Jersey at #4 (1.32 million) and AEW Dynamite at #20 (932k)

[Emperor Smeat]

#81 for NXT surprises me, they lost to a Paddington cartoon. The number of viewers sounds about right for a recap show.

I hope AEW cracks 1 million soon, they've been on a roll and deserve it.

That's around the number NXT got last time they aired a special episode with no actual wrestling. Pretty much confirms NXT's diehard core is in the mid 500k range.

Considering Smackdown, RAW, and AEW all got a similar boost range, that probably means wrestling isn't going to see any real major boosts in numbers despite not having to worry about any sports competition for a while.

[slik]

Both wrestling and daytime soap operas are in a prime position to gain tv viewers and neither is likely to it seems.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm pretty sure AEW's viewership has peaked. Anyone who is going to enjoy that sort of wrestling has already found it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Probably still a year away from knowing if that's the actual case. Right now, upper 900k seems to be AEW's limit with a pretty solid core in place.

Monday Night War needed around 2 years to build up their tv audiences to the level needed for the eventual boom to happen and that was with 2 already established companies. Only NXT is similar to that level of establishment but their experience with actual weekly tv is a lot newer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm curious to see the Double or Nothing buyrate this year compared to last.

[xrodmuc316]

That's around the number NXT got last time they aired a special episode with no actual wrestling. Pretty much confirms NXT's diehard core is in the mid 500k range.

Considering Smackdown, RAW, and AEW all got a similar boost range, that probably means wrestling isn't going to see any real major boosts in numbers despite not having to worry about any sports competition for a while.

I would consider myself a die-hard NXT fan. It's my favorite of all the brands.

That said, I watched only Dynamite last night knowing NXT was going to have no actual live wrestling.

It looks like AEW'S gained the the viewers NXT lost this week, but maybe they aren't splitting the audience as much as I'd speculated. Looks like there is only around 150k people who are sway the needle so to say one way or the other.

[slik]

SD - average 2.56 million


https://i.postimg.cc/0ycgbbkY/Fast-Demo-2020-Mar-20-FRI.png

[Droford]

Both wrestling and daytime soap operas are in a prime position to gain tv viewers and neither is likely to it seems.

I would have thought Soap Operas were suspended from production..theres only like 2 left anyway

[slik]

There's 4 left. All are suspended in production now but 3 tape about 4 weeks in advance and the other (Days of Our Lives) tapes about 8 months in advance. Days was about to film their Christmas 2020 episodes so they should be good to go for a while.

[slik]

ESPN replay of WMXXX did 839k viewers

[slik]

RAW - 2.01 million viewers
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


https://i.postimg.cc/j2pz9zRG/Screenshot-2020-03-24-at-3-44-53-PM.png


Here's the Most Watched on YT:

Becky attacks Shayna - 430k
Orton promo - 370k
AJ's Boneyard - 355k
Seth Promo - 335k
Brock/Heyman - 252k
Tag Match - 192k
Aleister - 158k
Street Profits - 124k

[Emperor Smeat]

Decent numbers for ESPN considering the circumstances but RAW dropping that low pretty much means people quickly tired of WWE's weak efforts for their empty arena shows.

[Emperor Smeat]

Results for last night's AEW and NXT episodes:

AEW got 819k viewers, #23 ranking, and a 0.34 in the key demo.

NXT got 669k viewers, #56 ranking, and a 0.20 in the key demo.

No demo breakdowns for NXT since it didn't rank in the Top 50 for the 2nd week in a row.

News shows took 22 spots in the Top 25.

Edit: According to WrestlingInc, last night's NXT was the least viewed episode in series history for a non-special show on USA Network. Last week holds the all-time low record but that didn't feature any new matches aired.

[slik]

SD - 2.37 million average


Most Watched on YT:

Ziggler calms Mandy - 294k
Ziggler challenges Otis - 254k
Alexa vs Asuka - 215k


https://i.postimg.cc/fyCRqSVd/SD.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Like with RAW, didn't take long for people to get tired of WWE's format for empty arena shows.

Also didn't help that it was arguably the least appealing show out of all at the PC soo far.

[slik]

Avg - 1.93 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)

https://i.postimg.cc/qRq7s8Zn/Final-Cable-2020-Mar-30-MON.png


Most Watched on YT:

Undertaker promo - 508k
Shayna attacks Becky - 408k
6-Man tag - 291k

[slik]

The PC shows are hurting WWE. If they aired re-runs and classic matches only and did 'eh' ratings, it'd be expected.

Instead, they are pushing the biggest stars they have currently - they aren't giving fans any time to 'miss' WWE and tune back in big-time when crowds are back. If they continue taping after Mania they will have to find a way to maintain these numbers minus Goldberg, Cena, Undertaker, Brock, Roman and Edge.

They better hope fans really want to see Drew face Orton or Seth and Braun face, IDK, Baron Corbin?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Lmao who in the fuck wants to see Corbin?

[Emperor Smeat]

The PC shows are hurting WWE. If they aired re-runs and classic matches only and did 'eh' ratings, it'd be expected.

Instead, they are pushing the biggest stars they have currently - they aren't giving fans any time to 'miss' WWE and tune back in big-time when crowds are back. If they continue taping after Mania they will have to find a way to maintain these numbers minus Goldberg, Cena, Undertaker, Brock, Roman and Edge.

They better hope fans really want to see Drew face Orton or Seth and Braun face, IDK, Baron Corbin?

The problem with these PC shows is it exposes how sterile or stale WWE shows are without a crowd and them not willing to think out of the box to fix it.

Like their solution for the available roster lacking in numbers is to just air lengthy past matches. The problem with that idea is that has been taking away valuable time that could have been used to improve Mania's poor build.

Then you have them taking way too long to change things up with how they tape the shows which is why a lot of it feels awkward to watch and WWE not wanting to steer away from their typical routine.

[slik]

The longer this goes - I will start to wonder if WWE will be able to bounce back from all of this a bit - viewers, attendance, ppv pricing. It just seems like a recipe for disaster where the fanbase could shrink significantly.

And WWE being the biggest game in rasslin' town means that not's good for everyone else too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They definitely should have ran classic footage. Got no clue why they are doing what they are doing, or why anyone is to be honest. It's all garbage and it's all going to hurt them.

[drave]

The longer this goes - I will start to wonder if WWE will be able to bounce back from all of this a bit - viewers, attendance, ppv pricing. It just seems like a recipe for disaster where the fanbase could shrink significantly.

And WWE being the biggest game in rasslin' town means that not's good for everyone else too.


Eh, maybe if they had changed things up for the past 15-20ish years.... maybe. But good lord if this whole event hasn't exposed them for the stale, SSDD crap they've been churning out, they wouldn't be hurting AS bad.


They definitely should have ran classic footage. Got no clue why they are doing what they are doing, or why anyone is to be honest. It's all garbage and it's all going to hurt them.




They're doing what they are because VKM said so, damnit

[slik]

On Meltzer's board it was mentioned Backstage had 35k viewers this week but it was not enough to be listed in the top 150 programs for the day.

[Emperor Smeat]

Whoever posted that there must have gotten some faulty info since Backstage ranked this week at #142 and did 134k viewers with a 0.04 in the key demo.

First time since mid-February it managed to rank.

[slik]

Rough week for AEW and NXT


AEW - 685k (#37)
NXT - 590k (#74)


https://i.postimg.cc/N0N9W8d1/Final-Cable-2020-Apr-01-WED.png
https://i.postimg.cc/tR8Pq5pk/Screenshot-2020-04-02-at-3-37-27-PM.png

[ClockShot]

News, news, news, news, news, MTV show, news, news, news, news, my 600 lb. life, news, news, news, news, news, AEW.

Eh. They still had a good week.

[Emperor Smeat]

Probably a mix of people not liking last week's empty arena show from AEW and assuming the same was going to happen this week and that MTV show taking away a good chunk of the young viewers for both shows.

Neither WWE nor AEW taking advantage of a lot more people being stuck at home during these past few weeks is a bit of a worrying sign. News shows doing monster numbers makes sense considering the situation but wrestling should have also been able to capitalize greatly with no sports around for the time being.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Someone bet me that AEW would get over a million viewers during this quarantine.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I also take joy in bad wrestling tanking. You reap what you sow.

[BigCrippyZ]

Still waiting for WWE, Vince, and/or HHH to execute the plans to really crush AEW that I've been hearing about for the last couple of months now.

[slik]

AEW rebounds

https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2020/04/02/nxt-and-aew-ratings-report-viewership-drops-last-night-but-big-picture-shows-higher-percentage-watching-on-delay-key-metrics-and-cable-ranking/



On the bright side, while AEW’s live and same-night-DVR viewership is down, the viewers are showing up within three days. The average viewership after three days of delayed viewing in March was 1.06 million, in line with February’s average of 1.08 and only 107,000 down from January’s average of 1.13 million. After seven days, AEW viewership in March’s first three weeks averaged 1.09 million, not far off February’s 1.16 million and January’s 1.17 million. Last night’s same-night viewership, though, is down sharply from the prior weeks, so it’s unlikely the seven-day numbers will hold up as well.

NXT’s three-day viewership in March was 782,000, down from 883,000 in March and 857,000 in January. NXT’s seven-day viewership was 789,000 the first three weeks of March, down from 927,000 in February and 877,000 in January.

[slik]

I also take joy in bad wrestling tanking. You reap what you sow.

Even though it seems mean-spirited to take joy in RAW and SD dropping viewers each week for putting out a terrible product, I too applaud fans for rejecting bad wrestling and tuning out of WWE.

[#1-norm-fan]

Is WWE still using their main roster to try to boost NXT?

[slik]

Charlotte is feuding for the NXT title at Mania - so sort of

[slik]

SD - 2.38 million average


https://i.postimg.cc/TYCrdW3B/Fast-Demo-2020-Apr-03-FRI.png

[Mr. Nerfect]

Even though it seems mean-spirited to take joy in RAW and SD dropping viewers each week for putting out a terrible product, I too applaud fans for rejecting bad wrestling and tuning out of WWE.

All of it. WWE and AEW are both copping it.

Is WWE still using their main roster to try to boost NXT?

Nah, AEW isn’t a threat so they basically stopped trying. :lol:

[Triple A]

The 2018 Raw after WrestleMania drew 3,921,000 viewers... Feeling like this year might be barely above 2 million...

[drave]

*wet fart noises*

[slik]

Live TV Ratings for RAW post WrestleMania -


Hr 1- 2.31
Hr 2- 2.06
Hr 3 - 1.93

Avg - 2.10 million
(credit - wrestlingobserver)

[Bad News Gertner]

AEW rebounds

https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2020/04/02/nxt-and-aew-ratings-report-viewership-drops-last-night-but-big-picture-shows-higher-percentage-watching-on-delay-key-metrics-and-cable-ranking/

Lol you can't count DVR. Let's face it. AEW is a sinking ship. Impact will probably buy them out by the end of 2020.

[Emperor Smeat]

Live TV Ratings for RAW post WrestleMania -


Hr 1- 2.31
Hr 2- 2.06
Hr 3 - 1.93

Avg - 2.10 million
(credit - wrestlingobserver)

That's one of those good/bad type situations.

The good being RAW managed to rebound from last week's all-time low and got a good boost in the key demo rating while the bad being that was one of the smallest ever post-Mania PPV bumps.

For some comparison, last year's post-Mania show had 824k more viewers overall.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW fucking sucks. Can't wait for the excuses when the rating comes back even lower than last week. "No one is watching because of the news!" "It's WrestleMania week, dummy!" Yeah, like that wouldn't increase the foot traffic for all wrestling promotions. That's why no one usually runs indies at WrestleMania time.

[Triple A]

NXT wins for the first time in 2020

NXT: 693K
AEW: 692K

[slik]

Nice!


If there was ever a week NXT should've won it was definitely this one w/ The Takeover card.

[slik]

Can't wait for the excuses when the rating comes back even lower than last week.

lol the rating and demos were up from last week :rofl:


https://i.postimg.cc/pXF2Vktz/Screenshot-2020-04-09-at-3-24-13-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/v8jYdkCG/Screenshot-2020-04-09-at-3-24-26-PM.png

[Bad News Gertner]

Hahaha R.I.P Impact 2.0

[Emperor Smeat]

Nice!


If there was ever a week NXT should've won it was definitely this one w/ The Takeover card.

Yeah, makes sense if they were going to break AEW's streak, it would have been this week. Had the two biggest matches that would have been on TakeOver and going with a cinematic feel to the Gargano-Ciampa match likely helped a lot as well.

Since NXT just missed out on the Top 50, I'd assume they probably got a very sizable boost from their old demo since for a while AEW managed to either erase it or minimize that big advantage.

[Mr. Nerfect]

lol the rating and demos were up from last week :rofl:


https://i.postimg.cc/pXF2Vktz/Screenshot-2020-04-09-at-3-24-13-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/v8jYdkCG/Screenshot-2020-04-09-at-3-24-26-PM.png

So it wasn’t the news? Funny that.

[Emperor Smeat]

News still dominated the Top 20 shows by a lot. Both in terms of viewers and in demo rankings.

AEW was off by 0.03 points for a Top 20 ranking but in terms of viewers, only 2 shows in the Top 20 did less than 1 million and neither were news shows.

[Emperor Smeat]

Apparently Meltzer managed to dig more into NXT's razor thin victory this week and it turns out NXT won due to favorable rounding by Nielsen.

NXT had 692,900 which got rounded up to 693k while AEW had 692,500 but didn't get rounded up so they only got 692k.

Was speculated elsewhere that the difference likely was a single Nielsen viewer who swung the numbers in NXT favor.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Taken another digit in, NXT was 692,900 and AEW was 692,500, so difference of 400 viewers. Very interesting quarters. I'll say this. Definitely not what you would expect.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1248721231773192193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Last time the numbers were that close was when they tied once time in December. Wouldn't be surprised if favorable rounding also happened back then.

[slik]

Seems peculiar Meltzer felt the need to point this out tbh

[Emperor Smeat]

Usually stuff like that gets revealed in the following Newsletter but something like this has only happened one other time soo far so I guess he felt extra giddy revealing it early.

Based on his tease, wouldn't be surprised at all if the squash match involving the Indus Sher tag team beat out one or more quarters from the very hyped up final encounter between Gargano and Ciampa. Same for Omega's tag match probably not being a ratings disaster despite the general negative reception to it online.

Like last week's set of shows ended up revealing that America doesn't like Dumb & Dumber since it did an abysmal number as a lead-in and NXT might have had their least ever viewed segment in USA Network era history.

[Emperor Smeat]

Turns out the decider was the first ten minutes of both shows since NXT had a better lead-in and stronger start than AEW did.

The actual difference was in the first ten minutes of the show where the much larger rated USA Network gave NXT ten much bigger minutes before it fell into a more normal range starting around minute 11.

[slik]

SD drops a little post Mania from last week's 2.38 million to 2.31 million this week

https://i.postimg.cc/L5M2c6P9/Fast-Demo-2020-Apr-10-FRI.png

[Mr. Nerfect]

Apparently Meltzer managed to dig more into NXT's razor thin victory this week and it turns out NXT won due to favorable rounding by Nielsen.

NXT had 692,900 which got rounded up to 693k while AEW had 692,500 but didn't get rounded up so they only got 692k.

Was speculated elsewhere that the difference likely was a single Nielsen viewer who swung the numbers in NXT favor.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Taken another digit in, NXT was 692,900 and AEW was 692,500, so difference of 400 viewers. Very interesting quarters. I'll say this. Definitely not what you would expect.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1248721231773192193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Last time the numbers were that close was when they tied once time in December. Wouldn't be surprised if favorable rounding also happened back then.

:lol:

Seems peculiar Meltzer felt the need to point this out tbh

He's biased as fuck and it's made him unbearable. He's constantly sacrificing whatever credibility he had to spin things to make AEW look better.

SD drops a little post Mania from last week's 2.38 million to 2.31 million this week

https://i.postimg.cc/L5M2c6P9/Fast-Demo-2020-Apr-10-FRI.png

But shouldn't the news have crippled them?

[Emperor Smeat]

Its a bit different with network channels.

Networks can withstand the on-going news shows onslaught better due to having a larger audience reach and only FOX airs news during prime time hours but its not tracked since its local news.

If this was regular cable, Smackdown would have taken the #2 & #3 spots going by the previous Friday's cable rankings if you ignore the other networks.

[slik]

If SD aired Friday Nights on the USA Network it would have less viewers than RAW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If SD aired Friday Nights on the USA Network it would have less viewers than RAW.

If Raw aired Monday nights on FOX, it would have more viewers than SmackDown.

[Emperor Smeat]

If SD aired Friday Nights on the USA Network it would have less viewers than RAW.

Yeah that's very possible because of USA Network having a smaller national reach and Fridays generally being the least viewed day of the week.

When Smackdown moved to Tuesdays on the USA Network it managed to get the double boost of being live and being on a better day for cable prime time shows.

[slik]

1.91 million average


This might be the first time all three hours are under 2 million, but I don't know for sure.
Last week was 2.10 million. (credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Drew vs Andrade - 1 million
Seth attacks Drew - 657k
Nia Jax vs Kairi - 317k

https://i.postimg.cc/XYFCc24K/Screenshot-2020-04-14-at-3-25-43-PM.png

[Bad News Gertner]

Raw triples AEW viewership! Wow, The Revival better not join that sinking ship

[slik]

Only about 300k of WWE's RAW viewers are under 25

Not a good sign for pro-rasslin's future possibly

[Emperor Smeat]

Can trace that back to WWE's terrible job during the Cena era of building Cena's young fanbase into their future viewerbase.

Cena as the only mega star and the PG era ended up being great for WWE generating a huge new child fanbase but terrible in the long run since WWE never bothered to improve their terrible booking habits and treated the majority of the roster as a bunch of nobodies.

Led to those young fans getting bored after a few years and quitting being fans of wrestling. Unlike something like Pokemon, those fans didn't come back after a few years as new young adult viewers.

WWE's numbers would be even more dire if it wasn't for NXT and Total Divas causing a revival in interest in women's wrestling in the company since that led to a lot more female viewers becoming fans of wrestling.

[slik]

AEW, learn your lesson - no more long Jake Hager matches.

https://bungalower.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/giphy-1-1.gif


NXT - 692k
AEW - 683k


https://i.postimg.cc/zvZ9YqyT/Screenshot-2020-04-16-at-3-14-45-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/J0NS1SXv/Screenshot-2020-04-16-at-3-16-58-PM.png

[Bad News Gertner]

AEW probably dead by May

[slik]

At this rate all of rasslin might be dead by July

[Droford]

The main problem i had with the Hager/Mox match was the decision to only have JR call it, it was awkward and him pointing out the dumb shot (why is there a guard rail, why are there chairs) hurt it. Especially considering Jericho been killing it on commentary

[Damian Rey 2.0]

It was too long and the empty arena did it no favors. 10-15 minute brawl would've been just fine.

[RP]

I'd also like to point out that his name is Jake Hager.

[Emperor Smeat]

Seems both shows are starting to settle in the 600k range for these empty arena shows.

Also seems NXT's older audience is once again doing all the heavy lifting for the brand considering its been a month since they last ranked in the Top 50. Them keeping almost the same viewership but going down by several spots proving that to be the case.

Either NXT got another very strong start this week or that Hager vs. Moxley match really was the cause for NXT's win. That match had the same problem as the Edge vs. Orton match where it was too long and slow paced and really needed a crowd around to feed off on.

[XL]

I’m really struggling with attention span with these empty arena shows. Anything more than a few minutes for a promo and my mind wonders, can probably do 10-15 mins max on a match.

[drave]

I'm all for them piping in crowd noises, honestly. It is part of the whole "presentation" and would make things seem as close to "normal" as possible. I would imagine it would also cost to have more editing done..... but that would be a good thing to pay for, if the money is available, ofc.




Also, Hager just looks like he doesn't belong in his body. He's a big dude, but he reminds me of Bambi trying to get her legs, just awkward AF. More entertaining in MMA, where he definitely seems to be "better off".

[Emperor Smeat]

Usually stuff like that gets revealed in the following Newsletter but something like this has only happened one other time soo far so I guess he felt extra giddy revealing it early.

Based on his tease, wouldn't be surprised at all if the squash match involving the Indus Sher tag team beat out one or more quarters from the very hyped up final encounter between Gargano and Ciampa. Same for Omega's tag match probably not being a ratings disaster despite the general negative reception to it online.

Like last week's set of shows ended up revealing that America doesn't like Dumb & Dumber since it did an abysmal number as a lead-in and NXT might have had their least ever viewed segment in USA Network era history.

Turns out the Gargano-Ciampa match was a big draw for NXT but only for the 1st 10-20 minutes and then it declined badly afterwards. The ladder match also ended up being somewhat of a dud in terms of viewership interest since it squandered the big audience it had coming from the lead-in.

Also turned out that the Best Friends vs. Omega & Nakazawa match performed the best in terms of viewership for AEW last week and AEW's main events have been a big weak point these past couple weeks.

[drave]

Gertner is right when he says 20 minutes or less, with very few exceptions....




re: dropped after 20 mins

[drave]

Also feel like Gertner would have a great blog//podcast about some obscure, but super interesting things in the world of professional wrestling.

[slik]

SD 2.19 million, trending downwards continues

Good news for WWE is it's still #1 in Men 18-49 and Adults 18-34


https://i.postimg.cc/yNCnWZ5y/Fast-Demo-2020-Apr-17-FRI.png

[Emperor Smeat]

WWE probably could drop by another 100k to 200k within the next few weeks but this is likely their basement range for the foreseeable future with these empty arena shows.

NXT already settled into a 600k range these past few weeks while RAW is basically what SD would be now without the FOX boost.

AEW probably also going to stay in that 600k range as well until this coronavirus stuff clears up.

[slik]

I could see RAW and SD dropping another 500k each from where they were this week in the next two months tbh.

I do think AEW/NXT have their hardcore fans in the 500-700k range though.

[Emperor Smeat]

500k seems a bit too much even if these empty arena shows have been mostly disappointing but then again SD did reveal that one time when it aired on FS1 that WWE's real main brands viewership floor is very small.

Feel bad for AEW since they were settling into that 900k range and moving closer and closer to hitting 1 million again before this coronavirus stuff wiped out all of their momentum from earlier in the year.

Same for feeling bad for MLW since they were on pace to grow very well this year on tv, especially had they managed to sign that rumored Showtime deal before this virus wrecked things.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The main problem i had with the Hager/Mox match was the decision to only have JR call it, it was awkward and him pointing out the dumb shot (why is there a guard rail, why are there chairs) hurt it. Especially considering Jericho been killing it on commentary

JR not pointing out that something is stupid doesn’t make that thing any less stupid. Why does JR get blamed for AEW being idiots? Everyone at home is thinking “hang on,” so why shouldn’t JR voice that as their conduit.

500k seems a bit too much even if these empty arena shows have been mostly disappointing but then again SD did reveal that one time when it aired on FS1 that WWE's real main brands viewership floor is very small.

Feel bad for AEW since they were settling into that 900k range and moving closer and closer to hitting 1 million again before this coronavirus stuff wiped out all of their momentum from earlier in the year.

Same for feeling bad for MLW since they were on pace to grow very well this year on tv, especially had they managed to sign that rumored Showtime deal before this virus wrecked things.

AEW were not going to get back to 1 million viewers, lol. I do feel bad for MLW, but I hope they can get something together at the end of this.

[slik]

RAW tops the demos but continues to drop


1.84 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Drew vs Garza - 621k
Liv vs Ruby - 361k
Aleister vs Theory - 319k


https://i.postimg.cc/3xsZqJwh/Final-Cable-2020-Apr-20-MON.png

[BigCrippyZ]

Everyone at home is thinking “hang on,” so why shouldn’t JR voice that as their conduit.

Was "everyone" at home realy thinking that though? I was too busy enjoying the show to care and never even thought about it, at least until JR actually brought it up of course. Honestly, I don't give a shit if, why, or whether there are or should be any chairs, rails, etc., in an empty arena show. It's such a stupid thing to care about when there's an actual match going on, and especially when there is oftentimes talent in the "crowd" to justify it anyway.

[Emperor Smeat]

RAW tops the demos but continues to drop

1.84 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)

https://i.postimg.cc/3xsZqJwh/Final-Cable-2020-Apr-20-MON.png

Only around 67k away from matching their all-time low for RAW.

That gap is small enough to basically be a lock RAW is going to set a new all-time low record very soon.

[Bad News Gertner]

Also feel like Gertner would have a great blog//podcast about some obscure, but super interesting things in the world of professional wrestling.

It occupies way too much of my brain

[slik]

WWE had half the TV viewers for the RAW after Mania 36 they did for the RAW after WM 32.

For all the profits the E is making the fanbase is doing the opposite of growth. That's a bad sign for all wrestling companies that aren't based in Japan or Mexico.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Was "everyone" at home realy thinking that though? I was too busy enjoying the show to care and never even thought about it, at least until JR actually brought it up of course. Honestly, I don't give a shit if, why, or whether there are or should be any chairs, rails, etc., in an empty arena show. It's such a stupid thing to care about when there's an actual match going on, and especially when there is oftentimes talent in the "crowd" to justify it anyway.

Absolutely. It's part of the setting, which ties directly to the psychology of what is going on. If you watch a fight and someone pulls out a giant hammer out of nowhere, you ask "Where the fuck did that giant hammer come from?" It's stupid when WWE does it, and it's stupid when AEW does it.

Only around 67k away from matching their all-time low for RAW.

That gap is small enough to basically be a lock RAW is going to set a new all-time low record very soon.

Overall, given the circumstances, I think it not being their lowest period is a fine deal. You'd expect these shows to be the lowest. It wouldn't be a good thing if they were, but it wouldn't be anywhere near a surprise.

[Emperor Smeat]

Apparently FS1's all-women themed block of WWE programing and WWE Backstage episode last night ended up being a bust.

The first two specials focusing on Ronda Rousey and Charlotte managed to rank while the two specials on Becky Lynch and the all-women panel for WWE Backstage didn't. First time since its return earlier this month that Backstage failed to rank.

Last night’s episode of WWE Backstage on FS1 did not make the top 150 cable shows, so the rating is currently unavailable.

FS1 aired four WWE documentaries last night.

– WWE 24: Ronda Rousey (8PM): 214,000
– Best of Charlotte Flair (9PM): 299,000
– Best of Becky Lynch (7PM): Not available. Did not make the top 150.
– WWE 24: Becky Lynch (10PM): Not available. Did not make the top 150.

[slik]

AEW - 731k
NXT - 665k

NXT back in the top 50 this week

https://i.postimg.cc/qqz0t4rV/Final-Cable-2020-Apr-22-WED.png

[Emperor Smeat]

More non-news shows hitting the Top 10 and Top 20 seems to be a sign that the news' iron grip during these coronavirus times is starting to loosen up a bit.

Seems women were the reason for AEW's boost while teenagers, especially boys, were the reason for NXT's decline in viewers this week.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol this can't bode well for Hager having any prominence on the program anymore.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He should alwaysbe used as the muscle and to be fed to a hot babyface

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah Hager works a ton better as the muscle for Jericho and not someone who really should be getting the big spotlight or fighting for himself.

Same mistake Lucha Underground did with him for their final season. Should have never pushed him that quickly or made him their top champ considering by the end of the season, he turned out to just be the muscle for a new mysterious group.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He's fine being used like Wardlow as a gatekeeper to the final boss. But it shouldn't be in a 30 minute match.

[slik]

NFL Draft did a number on Smackdown


Avg - 2.02 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
HBK roasts HHH - 571k
Vince McMahon appears - 496k
Recap of Braun/Bray - 298k


https://i.postimg.cc/sfm1RXcy/Fast-Demo-2020-Apr-24-FRI.png

[slik]

Weekly rundown:

Smackdown - 2.02 million
RAW - 1.84 million
AEW - 731k
NXT - 665k

[Emperor Smeat]

Bruce Prichard was such a terrible hire as the lead creative of SD.

Neither RAW nor SD have been that appealing to watch since the new tv deals kicked in but at least with RAW, Heyman and co. have been trying to build up new things while on SD, it just feels mostly boring and bland despite being an hour shorter.

[slik]

I watched the clips on YT of the rest of SD -- I remember when this was advertised to FOX as a SPORTS program.

What they have instead is something that comes across as a badly scripted kid's tv series.
Can't imagine why new viewers aren't interested in picking that up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

2 million isn't the worst number they could have done going up against the draft.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bruce Prichard was such a terrible hire as the lead creative of SD.

Neither RAW nor SD have been that appealing to watch since the new tv deals kicked in but at least with RAW, Heyman and co. have been trying to build up new things while on SD, it just feels mostly boring and bland despite being an hour shorter.

I'm not a fan of Prichard at all, and I don't watch WWE despite them putting on a great Rumble match, but some of the stuff they seem to be doing on paper is pretty good.

Glad they got Goldberg in to beat Bray. It seems their hands were tied with his contract situation and they were kind of forced into going with Braun, which is meh. I still don't get the Braun hype. Honestly, I'd be more interested if they went full-blown conservative heel with him and let Roman beat him when he gets back. Or go with someone completely fresh in lieu of that. Keith Lee? Man, Keith Lee smacking around Braun would be fine with me.

Sami Zayn is very entertaining in his spot. I feel like Cesaro and Nakamura are kind of in this dead space, but when you're talking about a guy that doesn't have the personality Vince gets in Cesaro and Nakamura is excellent giving his little sideways faces (from what I have actually seen) and it's at least a functional role where they can potentially have great tag team matches and the like. Would love to see Daniel Bryan & Drew Gulak vs. Cesaro & Nakamura, for example.

I ideally wanted Bryan in a more focused role, but while he's negotiating his new contract they are letting him work underneath with guys he seemingly wants to work with. He's a valuable player.

The Otis/Ziggler/Mandy stuff was very WWE, but it's the sort of very WWE stuff that the WWE actually does well. It's their wheelhouse, and that's kind of the perfect spot for Ziggler in 2020. I'd actually like to see him and Roode move down to NXT for a while or something. Their act feels very similar to Miz & Morrison.

Speaking of Miz & Morrison -- I like them as a team. It's the best role for Miz as an active wrestler. Morrison is still tremendous and looks like a star every time I see him. In the Edge & Christian role of prick heel champs you want to see the babyface brother team and the established popular act beat, that's not a bad start for a tag team division that also has Bryan & Gulak and Cesaro & Nakamura to throw into the mix.

The flattest act there, in my opinion, is Bayley as heel champ. I'm sure there are plans to turn Sasha babyface and do something with Snoop at some point, but it's just...eh. Feel like they need to "go away" to freshen up. But them being so cold right now could lead to them feeling a bit more reinvigorated when they actually start doing something.

I have no real compulsion to watch the shows, but on paper, I get what they're going for. It's all fine stuff...in theory.

Really wish they'd do something proper with Chad Gable and drop the Shorty G stuff completely. That dude's a heck of a talent.

[XL]

SmackDown somehow manages to be “less than the sum of its parts”. For me, outside of the (lack of) creative, the mix of talent isn’t right.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SmackDown somehow manages to be “less than the sum of its parts”. For me, outside of the (lack of) creative, the mix of talent isn’t right.

That's a much more succinct way of explaining the impression it gives me, haha. :y:

It's so weird when you've got two top babyfaces like Daniel Bryan and Braun Strowman, who are just so mind-blowingly different. I can get Bryan and Roman together, because their personalities and presentations are so different, but they've kind of got similar motors and could probably have a great match beside each other or against each other. Then you've got this big lumbering fuck. Throw in goofy Bray Wyatt.

They need to pick an identity for these shows. Braun could work as a heel for Drew, talking shit about how people should just not be poor. If they don't like him, stay home, sell your ticket and go and make your dreams happen instead of watching real men like him. Drew kicks him the face. Yay.

The Bryan show needs to be built around guys that Bryan can really work with. Not always the best technical matches, but guys that he just knows he can get a lot out of. That's mostly everyone, I guess, but I'd send Brock to SmackDown and do a Bryan vs. Brock program, because that's proper money.

[XL]

With SmackDown being touted as the “sports presentation” show that’s sort of what I expected (and why I was initially excited for the brand split). You’d have two distinct feels to the shows.

SmackDown would be the more “workrate” based show with Brian, Nakamura, Zayn, Cesaro, Reigns, Ziggler, New Day, Usos, Gable, Morrison, even guys like Sheamus, Jeff Hardy, Heavy Machinery, etc. who don’t necessarily fit in the top tier of in ring talent but can go and more importantly add some “character” and diversity to the roster so it’s not just a bunch of “vanilla midgets” applying submissions to each other. And yes, Brock and Rousey.

Raw would then be the more “entertainment” show with the bigger personalities. This is where Strowman and The Fiend fit. You’d still want some guys that can handle the action between the ropes to hold on to that “hardcore”/IWC audience. That’s where Rollins, Owens, Styles, Black, Joe, etc come in. This is where the first brand spilt went wrong; they seemed to go for similar “feels” as described above but they left Raw with a coming-to-the-end-of-his-career Austin, Hall, Nash, Big Show, Taker, Kane, Bubba Dudley, and Bradshaw. Grim.

Tbf, the current situation is different; you’d be unlucky to pick 3 random names out of a hat and not get at least one guy that’s at least an 8/10 in the ring.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn't really buy the sports thing when I heard about it. FOX always knew they were getting the circus. I'd buy the WWE doing something different (I know that sounds laughable) *if* it were something new. Say ESPN or Fox Sports orders a one-hour wrestling show, and they actually went to Vince and said "Hey, we want it to actually be wrestling and separate from your other stuff that we value for entertainment" (if you can call it entertainment). Know what I mean? I can actually buy Vince doing wrestling on the side. Like Southpaw as a promotion without the comedy. Dunno, can just see them getting so far away from wrestling that they decide to do wrestling as a novelty, haha.

When they first did the draft, I was pretty pissed off they didn't bring up The Revival, Gargano & Ciampa and American Alpha to be the tag team base on Raw. I say Raw just because they've got three fucking hours to fill. You send them there, throw in The Usos as a brother team, and you've got four ace teams that can shake things up and be analogous to the SmackDown Six but on Raw. The Usos could turn heel and you could do tags, six-mans, eight-mans, singles, etc. The New Day and Enzo & Cass could have anchored an "entertainment" tag division on SmackDown.

I bring that up because while it's so natural to go with Raw being the entertainment show, it's just the length of it. That's where you put Cesaro doing 20-minute things with guys, because SmackDown is only two hours, so it's easy to keep it snappy. Today, I'd just go with booking around a few people on SmackDown. Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar seem like natural fits for that to me. You don't need a Randy Orton in that mix, so you can use him on Raw. Bray Wyatt doesn't fit that mix, so you can use him on Raw too. So you go with the guys that have great chemistry with Bryan, Brock and Roman:

* AJ Styles -- great matches with Roman, Brock and can work with Bryan too.

* Finn Balor -- great matches with Brock and could also be there with AJ.

* Shinsuke Nakamura -- still a dream match with Bryan, don't care what anyone else says.

* Sami Zayn -- can do that shit with Nakamura and could also work with Bryan, although Roman and Brock don't really work on paper for me.

* Kevin Owens -- partner to Zayn, great start to a tag division. Working with Styles & Balor would be interesting.

* The Usos -- could go heel with Roman or help him out as faces, whatever. Another great tag team for the show.

* Naomi -- guess that means she's there too, so there's a woman for your division.

See how it all sort of flows and feeds itself? You start with Roman and end up at Naomi, haha. But you don't need Jeff Hardy or Rey Mysterio for that paradigm, so you can just use them on Raw. Andrade works well with Rey and matches with Jeff would actually be pretty interersting too, so you send them to Raw, which means Charlotte Flair for the Raw women's side, as well as Zelina Vega and Aleister Black since those marriages lock them all together.

Just start with a few top guys and build the show around them. Instead they've got these shows and just allocate people to them for no rhyme or reason and they're disjointed. Then things like a draft might actually mean something, because guys would have better identities within the confines of their shows and the rosters having more function means you have to think about it more and move people with plans for them instead of it just being "now you're on the red show."

[XL]

Aside from wanting the Usos on both shows (don’t blame you, and I know you’re just free-thinking here) that all stands up for me. I can’t wrap my head around how they’ve ended up with some of the guys in certain shows, and in certain positions.

[slik]

RAW:


Avg - 1.82 million viewers
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Drew/Seth contract signing - 909k
6-Man tag - 282k
Liv vs Ruby - 275k


https://i.postimg.cc/Y0pFPb37/raw.png

[Emperor Smeat]

At this point, WWE really needs to spice things up with the format for their empty arena shows since its not really working in terms of entertainment.

They sort of had the idea with replaying classic past matches but instead of wasting valuable Mania build time with it, should have reserved that for the post-Mania shows when things start to slow down a bit in terms of storytelling and general interest.

[drave]

They needed to spice up the half-full arena shows too. Too late.

[slik]

AEW and NXT both had a decent week.

AEW - 693k
NXT - 637k


https://i.postimg.cc/TYzNkg5V/Screenshot-2020-04-30-at-3-12-27-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/hGgynnrh/Screenshot-2020-04-30-at-3-18-30-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Seems old people were the reason for AEW's decline in viewership since everything else was pretty much up in terms of ratings. NXT meanwhile squandered whatever momentum they gained after that brief 2 weeks on top.

Next week should be interesting since it will be the first time in over a month AEW will have a lot more of their roster to work with and WWE hyping up another Takeover-like card for NXT.

[slik]

First time SD has gone under 2 million, minus the week it aired on FS1, since moving to FOX


Avg - 1.92 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Otis vs Dolph - 367k
Tamina attacked - 322k
Mandy vs Carmella - 268k


https://i.postimg.cc/6qNZkhBz/Fast-Demo-2020-May-01-FRI.png

[Emperor Smeat]

The stuff with the demos is a lot more worrying for WWE since SD no longer leads in the key areas and the more those start turning red, the more FOX is going to be upset.

[xrodmuc316]

I think wrestling has REALLY dropped the ball on this golden opportunity.

In a time when nothing is on, they have pretty much just shown up, but aside from 2 theatrical matches, an intriguing MITB concept, Chris Jericho on commentary, and Bubbly Bunch skits, nothing spectacular has happened in the last 2 months of wrestling.

I know it's hard without the instant feedback from a live crowd, but instead of drawing new fans, they are losing fans.

As a lifelong fan of pro wrestling, it's depressing.

[slik]

Yikes

Avg - 1.686 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Drew vs Murphy - 588k
AJ Styles returns - 397k
Liv vs Charlotte - 323k


https://i.postimg.cc/W3R73BKd/Final-Cable-2020-May-04-MON.png

[drave]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/10j5rIRn1U0il2/source.gif

[Emperor Smeat]

RAW starting to inch closer to what AEW and TNA/Impact did for their highest ever shows, not counting the brief time TNA was on Mondays.

[erickman]

yeah i was about to say they are getting to tna 2008 raittings

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I firmly believe that this is going to be catastrophic for the company in the long term. It's brand poison. This is territory-killing stuff.</p>&mdash; Dave Schilling (@dave_schilling) <a href="https://twitter.com/dave_schilling/status/1257798497102737409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL Draft viewership was up 40%. Millions are watching 1990s era Bulls games and related documentaries. I have friends that stayed up overnight to watch opening day of the Korean Baseball League. Something doesn’t add up</p>&mdash; Christopher Nyren (@CNyren) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNyren/status/1257771058586845185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[erickman]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL Draft viewership was up 40%. Millions are watching 1990s era Bulls games and related documentaries. I have friends that stayed up overnight to watch opening day of the Korean Baseball League. Something doesn’t add up</p>&mdash; Christopher Nyren (@CNyren) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNyren/status/1257771058586845185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

when they have nascar start up next week lets see how many watch that.

[Emperor Smeat]

Feel these empty arena shows should have never started off with Smackdown and RAW since their first empty arena shows left a bad taste in people's mouths.

Not only did it take WWE too long to realize having rows of empty seats in the background looked bad visually, the novelty of airing lengthy classic matches simply to waste a ton of time wore out quickly.

AEW and NXT's first empty arena shows would have been a much better starting point for this coronavirus era of wrestling since they felt better in terms of vibes and looked better visually.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL Draft viewership was up 40%. Millions are watching 1990s era Bulls games and related documentaries. I have friends that stayed up overnight to watch opening day of the Korean Baseball League. Something doesn’t add up</p>&mdash; Christopher Nyren (@CNyren) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNyren/status/1257771058586845185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yeah the product is and has been shit for ages and the limited roster and lack of star power is finally catching up to them

[slik]

WWE has made it unlikely for new fans to get invested unless they have friends/family who are already fans. The chances of anyone otherwise deciding to spend 5 hours of TV watching weekly seems impractical/unrealistic.

[slik]

Both Wednesday shows went up.


AEW - 732k
NXT - 663k


Add them together and they are only 291k viewers less than RAW on Monday (credit - showbuzzdaily)


https://i.postimg.cc/K8ZsKc9s/AEW-NXT.png

[slik]

PWInsider reports that WWE Backstage had 75,000 viewers this week

[Emperor Smeat]

Both shows being up is good.

Going back live helped AEW a lot but the real benefit was them getting back most of their roster to work with which should help freshen things up for the next few weeks of shows.

NXT got a boost by tossing 2 Takeover-level matches but the real interesting thing is if Charlotte had another dud of a segment since her title reign and star power hasn't been the big key ratings generator WWE had been expecting by now.

[slik]

This is the first time AEW has topped RAW in the 18-34 male demo in the same week. (AEW - .24 / RAW - .23) per Wade Keller of PWTorch. (number not included in showbuzzdaily chart)

[Emperor Smeat]

NXT got a boost by tossing 2 Takeover-level matches but the real interesting thing is if Charlotte had another dud of a segment since her title reign and star power hasn't been the big key ratings generator WWE had been expecting by now.

Turns out her match with Io was a big draw unlike last week's match against Mia Yim.

The other TakeOver-level match between Cole and Dream was a big dud though.

In the fifth quarter, AEW lost 3,000 viewers and gained 4,000 in 18-49 for the end of Moxley vs. Kazarian, the post-match beatdown of Moxley and a Brandi Rhodes promo. NXT gained 39,000 viewers and 9,000 in 18-49 for Flair vs. Shirai and the post-match ...

In the final quarter, AEW gained 70,000 viewers and 38,000 in 18-49 for the rest of Jericho & Guevara vs. Hardy & Omega. NXT lost 34,000 viewers and 27,000 in 18-49 for Adam Cole vs. Velveteen Dream.

The final quarter, with Jericho & Sammy Guevara vs. Omega & Hardy going against Cole vs. Dream, AEW has an 837,000 to 572,000 edge in viewers, and was more than double in 18-49 with a 399,000 to 188,000 edge.

Meltzer speculated next week could very likely be another rise for both shows since news shows have been slowly losing their stranglehold over viewership.

[slik]

SD back over 2 million


Avg - 2.04 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Bray/Braun - 609k
Lacey/Tamina vs Bayley/Sasha - 321k
Jeff Hardy/Sheamus - 305k


https://i.postimg.cc/X7Q5Mbt6/Fast-Demo-2020-May-08-FRI.png

[slik]

Avg - 1.92 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Becky's Preggo - 2.2 million
Edge/Orton - 790k
Aleister/Rey vs Seth/Murphy - 561k


https://i.postimg.cc/wj2V54f5/Screenshot-2020-05-12-at-3-20-53-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Forget bringing back the Wild Card rule, WWE should just have new baby announcements each week since Becky's announcement was a big ratings success.

[slik]

UFC on ESPN+ definitely hurt both shows this week.

AEW - 654k
NXT - 604k


https://i.postimg.cc/2yVfMWn9/Screenshot-2020-05-14-at-3-26-11-PM.png
https://i.postimg.cc/mDZ43Jks/Screenshot-2020-05-14-at-3-25-27-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Plus Survivor as well considering it was the other big notable show for the night and the numbers it did for its finale.

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, is that the excuse AEW are using this time?

R.I.P

[Mr. Nerfect]

There's always something else people would rather watch.

[slik]

2.04 avg for SD this week


https://i.postimg.cc/Zqty82hY/Fast-Demo-2020-15-FRI.png

[slik]

Here's how the big 4 did this week:


SD - 2.04 million
RAW - 1.92 million
AEW - 654k
NXT - 604k

[Emperor Smeat]

Based on the past month, seems SD's ratings finally settled down in terms of how low they'd go for the empty arena shows. A little over 2 million is probably the best they are going to be for the foreseeable future.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wow, Raw still almost tripling the rating for AEW. That’s not good.

[Vastardikai]

The biggest hurdle AEW has right now is that it can barely beat the WWE's C-Show. And they have Jericho and Moxley.

NXT's Top guy? A dude who looks like a drowned rat.

[Evil Vito]

I think empty arena shows have gone pretty much as far as they can go in all companies. Even when you try to shoot things creatively or have the other wrestlers serve as an unofficial audience, the lack of a proper crowd really saps a lot of the energy away from everything.

I do think that once things are "normal" again, everyone will get back some of their viewers who decided to take a break. The problem is I don't know if they'll get back everybody because some people will have found other things to do especially as this drags on longer and longer.

[Evil Vito]

Florida's allowing 25% capacity at events, but having crowds back anytime soon is lunacy.

I'd bet WWE will end up being the first ones to have fans back. AEW will let them soak up the negative PR at first but they'll probably end up following suit within like a month...possibly with a few sensible precautions in place but at the end of the day it's still a show with fans in the building and that's not a thing that should be happening.

[Emperor Smeat]

I think empty arena shows have gone pretty much as far as they can go in all companies. Even when you try to shoot things creatively or have the other wrestlers serve as an unofficial audience, the lack of a proper crowd really saps a lot of the energy away from everything.

I do think that once things are "normal" again, everyone will get back some of their viewers who decided to take a break. The problem is I don't know if they'll get back everybody because some people will have found other things to do especially as this drags on longer and longer.

Between WWE, AEW, Impact, and AAA that have held empty arena shows, WWE hit that wall the fastest. Only real option left is to pump in fake crowd noise or have a virtual crowd like the idea WWE had. Even then, that might only buy a few more weeks depending on the company before hitting the wall again.

In regards to crowds coming back, that's been the big concern ever since these empty arena shows started. Current speculation is WWE likely is gong to suffer the most based on past history whenever they bled away viewers. NXT probably won't be hurt that much but RAW and SD probably going to be lucky if they get like half of their lost audience back.

[slik]

This is actually about 200k higher than I guessed it would be


Avg - 1.75 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Drew vs Corbin - 633k
Edge/Orton - 442k
Rollins promo - 346k


https://i.postimg.cc/m25Xjkzb/Screenshot-2020-05-19-at-3-19-42-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

WWE probably should have had another surprise baby announcement considering the ratings it got last week.

Last night's show wasn't that bad compared to recent weeks since it actually build up a bunch of interesting stuff for once but was still a bit of a chore to actually sit through to watch.

[slik]

Note:

The Rock hosting The Titan Games begins airing on NBC at the same time as RAW next week.

[slik]

AEW took the #7 spot on cable for Wednesday night

AEW - 701k
NXT - 592k


https://i.postimg.cc/Jzv33xnm/Screenshot-2020-05-21-at-3-27-51-PM.png
https://i.postimg.cc/GpDFXD8D/Screenshot-2020-05-21-at-3-27-45-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Bit surprised AEW did that well considering last night's episode was not one of their better ones. If there ever was a chance for NXT to steal a win without needing to throw out another Takeover-level show and/or matches, last night was that chance.

More worrisome for NXT is that key demo number set their new lowest ever since moving to USA Network. If it wasn't for WWE's old audience doing all the heavy lifting, NXT probably would be a lot closer to Impact on Pop TV numbers for the week.

[slik]

NXT's biggest problems are Gargano, Cole, Ciampa, Mauro & Beth.

When NXT began they shifted new people into the main-event scene every year or so. Cole/Gargano/Ciampa have eaten NXT for years now. It's so played out. Beth is just bad and Mauro is unbearable.

[Emperor Smeat]

At least in regards to talent and NXT Creative feeling stale or lazy at times, can blame Vince and Triple H for that.

Can even make the case what happened to NXT is one of the few times where Vince wasn't the main person at fault since Triple H wrecked NXT's entire call-up system all because of his ego and well before AEW was even a thing.

Vince and main Creative screwing up the handling of talent on the main roster has been bad but Triple H's reaction to it was even worse since it directly affects NXT and its shown in recent months.

[Jordan]

It's weird how NXT had me hooked for about a year or two but I lost interest after Nakamura debuted there, I found his run quite dry and never really went back.

[xrodmuc316]

It's weird how NXT had me hooked for about a year or two but I lost interest after Nakamura debuted there, I found his run quite dry and never really went back.

NXT is still so good at its core, but they use it to try and get over their other stuff FAR too much.

If I wanted to watch 205 Live, I would watch 205 Live.
If I wanted to watch NXT UK, I would watch NXT UK.

I don't know if that is Trips ego or Vince pushing that, but it's very easy to flip over to Dynamite when Tony Nese vs Jake Atlas comes on.

[slik]

SD - 2.04 million avg


Most watched on YT:
Charlotte vs Bayley - 363k
Jeff Hardy vs Sheamus - 308k
Otis/Mandy vs Dolph/Sonya - 280k


https://i.postimg.cc/JnVy1m8B/Fast-Demo-2020-May-22-FRI.png

[slik]

Here's how the big 4 shows did in live TV ratings this week


SD - 2.04 million
RAW - 1.75 million
AEW - 701k
NXT - 592k

[Savio]

Whoa is SD regularly beating Raw now?

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah. Combo of RAW taking a big beating this year for ratings, SD being on a higher profile network, and Fridays usually being the weakest night for television in terms of major competition.

[slik]

Whoa is SD regularly beating Raw now?

Since it moved to FOX I think there was only 1 week RAW beat SD and it was because it aired on FS1 instead of FOX that week.

[slik]

The Rock's show did well in demos on NBC Monday Night


https://i.postimg.cc/Pqp5P8Y5/Fast-Demo-2020-May-25-MON.png

[slik]

RAW dipped slightly from last week but still took 3 of the top 4 spots on Cable Monday night.


Avg - 1.735 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


https://i.postimg.cc/0NXVQ2h8/Screenshot-2020-05-27-at-3-12-02-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

2nd lowest ever viewership but on the bright side, at least the hourly drops were small and RAW managed to do well against the 90 Days Fiance shows and Rock's Titan Games.

[Bad News Gertner]

AEW: 827,000
NXT 731,000


Even with Tyson they still can't break 1 million. Embarrassing.

Tony Khan should sit down and talk with Dixie Carter. She could at least draw 1 million.

[slik]

Great week for both AEW and NXT

AEW - 827k
NXT - 731k


https://i.postimg.cc/431bgY5L/Screenshot-2020-05-28-at-3-17-03-PM.png

[slik]

Fun Fact:

If you add up the ratings for both AEW and NXT they total 1.558 million. That is only 177,000 less viewers than RAW had on Monday Night.

[Evil Vito]

Would really love to know what AEW and NXT's numbers would be if they weren't cutting into each other's markets.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Fun Fact:

If you add up the ratings for both AEW and NXT they total 1.558 million. That is only 177,000 less viewers than RAW had on Monday Night.

That's pitiful.

[Emperor Smeat]

Would really love to know what AEW and NXT's numbers would be if they weren't cutting into each other's markets.

Probably close to the combined live weekly numbers since that's what they were leaning towards when you include DVR viewers before the coronavirus wrecked that stat. AEW probably would still have the advantage in viewers by a couple hundred thousands at most.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think everyone who wants to watch AEW prioritizes it. If they're fans of the company, they're doing what they can to support it over NXT. Plus, NXT still drops on the Network, doesn't it? I'm sure instead of watching four hours of wrestling every Wednesday, people just watch NXT then, since a lot of AEW fans probably have the Network.

I think it goes to follow that NXT's numbers would go up. I say that because a lot of AEW fans would probably check out NXT more frequently if it were on a Tuesday or a Thursday. If they removed it from the Network too. The AEW audience is probably their audience. NXT would have a chance of getting the combined live numbers, maybe even a little more without the Network (like 200k or so), while AEW would probably get a much smaller boost from a very select few amount of people who prioritize NXT for whatever reason.

[Emperor Smeat]

NXT would go up the most but they'd probably end up being in a virtual tie at most since the WWE Network probably is only strong enough to cover the live and DVR gaps AEW has over them.

Since the Network very likely leans more towards WWE older viewers, AEW probably would still keep the key demo advantage they have going on if they were on separate days.

[xrodmuc316]

Would really love to know what AEW and NXT's numbers would be if they weren't cutting into each other's markets.

I know I'm in the minority, but as someone that flips back and forth each week, I think if they were on different days I would might not watch either anymore than I already do. Them being on at the same makes it harder to miss either one.

I could see each gaining maybe half the viewers of the others if they were on different nights and pulling a solid million viewers each week, but I think the other half would be lost. 400k people would only watch one and not the other.

[Bad News Gertner]

Meltzer reporting that AEW and Mike Tyson didn't crack the top Google searches, meaning less than 50,000 searches.

Been saying this for a year now : AEW's biggest hurdle is people thinking any company other than WWE is second rate because WWE has become the Kleenex of facial tissue. Something they were never shake.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/nothing-related-to-mike-tyson-or-aew-cracked-top-google-searches-after-dynamite/

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Meltzer reporting that AEW and Mike Tyson didn't crack the top Google searches, meaning less than 50,000 searches.

Been saying this for a year now : AEW's biggest hurdle is people thinking any company other than WWE is second rate because WWE has become the Kleenex of facial tissue. Something they were never shake.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/nothing-related-to-mike-tyson-or-aew-cracked-top-google-searches-after-dynamite/

Also, as much as Tyson has some cache, he doesn't have 1998-levels of cache. Plus, it's not like they have the combustible Austin element. I even read in the results the observer guy saying "this was decently executed but it's not a needle mover."

God bless them for trying, though.

[Bad News Gertner]

I figured with his rumored comeback that he'd have a lot of buzz right now. Especially in the sports world where nothing is going on.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I figured with his rumored comeback that he'd have a lot of buzz right now. Especially in the sports world where nothing is going on.

It probably should have a bit. But still, not having the WWE name plus missing that combustible Austin-like element really hurts. Who fucking cares about Tyson and Jericho, as much as I love Chris.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But I don't think current day Tyson could really do anything with anyone from the WWE roster either. Would have a better chance just because of the marketing reach of WWE, but beyond that, I dunno.

[Droford]

I watch AEW live and then switch over to the dvr to watch nxt in about 90 min ff thru commercials. If I wanted to without dvr directv has a west feed of TNT that I could watch AEW at 11 after nxt, but honestly I'd rather do it the way I do to speed up NXT

[Droford]

Fun Fact:

If you add up the ratings for both AEW and NXT they total 1.558 million. That is only 177,000 less viewers than RAW had on Monday Night.

That's pitiful.

the funny thing is it's probably 90% the same peoplevl that watch all 3

[Bad News Gertner]

Yup

[#1-norm-fan]

Meltzer reporting that AEW and Mike Tyson didn't crack the top Google searches, meaning less than 50,000 searches.

Been saying this for a year now : AEW's biggest hurdle is people thinking any company other than WWE is second rate because WWE has become the Kleenex of facial tissue. Something they were never shake.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/nothing-related-to-mike-tyson-or-aew-cracked-top-google-searches-after-dynamite/

I’ve said the same thing. WWE has made sure wrestling is unpopular while pumping their brand up as the exception for decades. And the only way anyone could realistically compete is if WWE rested on their laurels and got so unbelievably shitty that they inadvertently brought themselves down to someone else’s level.

That hasn’t happened. But I think the fact that a WWE branded wrestling show with all of WWE’s resources and even their main roster stars appearing cannot win a ratings “war” against another wrestling company is HUGE fucking progress.

[Bad News Gertner]

They are beating the C show. People can pump up NXT all they want. It's still the C show the caters to a niche audience of a niche audience.

[Mr. Nerfect]

NXT would go up the most but they'd probably end up being in a virtual tie at most since the WWE Network probably is only strong enough to cover the live and DVR gaps AEW has over them.

Since the Network very likely leans more towards WWE older viewers, AEW probably would still keep the key demo advantage they have going on if they were on separate days.

I think there's a lot of supposition going on here. The WWE Network is "probably" only strong enough to cover the live and DVR gaps? Where's that coming from? How do you know it's not 300k people from the US? That more than overtakes that gap. Plus you would have AEW viewers who would casually follow NXT having another day to actually keep up.

Is there any evidence that the Network audience skewers older? Streaming services are usually accessed by younger audiences. WWE still gets a lot of older fans to order things on PPV, which seems bass ackwards, but happens. I think that's where a lot of that "key demo" is for NXT. It's not that AEW is some hot young thang that people are really into -- the younger crowd just watches Thursdays on their tablets and shit.

It's one of the biggest spins Meltzer puts on things to make AEW look great. Droford is right, these audiences are probably way closer to being the same few saps who still try to give this bullshit a chance every week.

Meltzer reporting that AEW and Mike Tyson didn't crack the top Google searches, meaning less than 50,000 searches.

Been saying this for a year now : AEW's biggest hurdle is people thinking any company other than WWE is second rate because WWE has become the Kleenex of facial tissue. Something they were never shake.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/nothing-related-to-mike-tyson-or-aew-cracked-top-google-searches-after-dynamite/

This is something we just disagree on, I think. Not that it's anywhere near an unintelligible point or anything -- you may very well be right. I just don't believe that WWE is the Kleenex. I think they have definitely heavily influenced what a "tissue" is. But so many people still think they are called the WWF, haha. People will get these stock images in their mind when they think of "wrestling," and I think that can actually work for other promotions, because I don't think the feelings are that particularly strong towards the WWE.

I guess where I differ is if WWE were suddenly replaced by Big Bob's Wrestling Federation or whatever, I think people would just shrug. It's probably all the same shit to them, unless they watched once upon a time and miss "Macho Man" Randy Savage, specifically.

But, more to your point, I wouldn't be surprised if SmackDown actually got a boost on FOX, because people see "Mike Tyson" and "wrestling" and watch SmackDown to see it. It's more a lack of differentiation -- a tissue is a tissue -- but I think there is plenty of room for a separate wrestling promotion to establish itself as something unique and actually different.

Actually, come to think of it, I remember all the reading and learning I had to do to work out the differences between the WWF and, say, a Mid-South Wrestling, and how one is actually probably way too more tastes. Nuts, you're probably just 100% right, haha. That being said, the worst thing you can do is market yourself as second-rate WWE. People are sick enough of WWE -- why the fuck would you want to see Jericho and Tyson! Jericho and Tyson! 22 years later?

I’ve said the same thing. WWE has made sure wrestling is unpopular while pumping their brand up as the exception for decades. And the only way anyone could realistically compete is if WWE rested on their laurels and got so unbelievably shitty that they inadvertently brought themselves down to someone else’s level.

That hasn’t happened. But I think the fact that a WWE branded wrestling show with all of WWE’s resources and even their main roster stars appearing cannot win a ratings “war” against another wrestling company is HUGE fucking progress.

One of the weirdest things I've seen on the interwebs are AEW fans who are gloating because while the AEW ratings sit very comfortably below 1 million viewers, the Raw rating is dropping, so they're waiting for it to get as low as AEW -- like this is a good thing.

The AEW/NXT "war" is such a let-down. The viewership numbers are so small they are almost immeasurable to any significant margin. Given that Nielsen admits a 10% margin of error, I don't think there is even enough of a gap between the shows to say that one is even conclusively more watched than the other, until you look out at the trend over time. But even so, I crunched the numbers a while back, and given how many people still have cable and how many boxes Nielsen have out there, all you'd really need are a few (and I mean that almost literally) people with Nielsen boxes who just happen to be a hardcore wrestling nerd and is willing AEW to succeed.

I mean, I've obviously over-simplified it, but a difference of 100k is thrown out wildly by three people giving data. One falls asleep, the other prefers NXT but wants to support grassroots wrestling, the other is a genuine fan. Unless Nielsen have changed how they operate wildly, Nielsen just doesn't work when you get down to numbers this low. At least with Raw and Nitro you had a large enough sample to make definitive conclusions. Raw ended up KILLING Nitro. AEW is probably watched by more, if you can trust the inadequate sample size. And take out international deals. And the Network. It's an antiquated "war."

But NXT did its job, and AEW helped out by doing the PWG stuff. They got a pretty weak TV deal by live TV standards, one that could be estimated to basically equate to the production cost deal they were already on -- the only differing piece of information being Dave Meltzer who says "about $500k per show," which he probably got from AEW, so make of that what you will. The only concern WWE had about AEW was in how it would threaten those TV deals, because it's all they've got going for them right now. When AEW got ratings so small they are comparable to hours six and seven of WWE television, it was over. They're not going to suddenly start doing numbers that are going to validate a USA or FOX playing hard-ball with WWE in the future. The 200k-300k in the "key demo" that Raw and SmackDown both do better in -- SmackDown maybe even particularly more so, because while it's share is double that of AEW's, there may be more people watching in that demo on network as opposed to basic cable -- you'd be better off going with WWE as a sponsor/advertiser, or just going to YouTube to pay for a spot before a react video.

Because of that, they are zero threat to Vince. That is why I am so pissed off at how shitty they are, because I genuinely believed they had a chance to win over a large and disenchanted audience, and maybe even convince people to come back and watch pro-wrestling that doesn't have McMahons plastered all over it. Instead of living in a post-Vince world, where Vince would have to actually fucking try to stay #1, they've handed him a bigger monopoly than ever, and it's just getting colder and colder.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And that's why I love mocking AEW in front of its fans. Because they get so upset and then act like they're mad at Vince McMahon. If they were mad at Vince McMahon, they'd probably want to see him lose, so they'd probably want the horrible shit that switches people off out of their alleged alternative, right? Well, enjoy your stay at Vinceland.

AEW only exists because he controls everything. That's why he gets the big TV money, and it's why the Khans thought they could jump in and get a slice. AEW fans should probably be thanking Vince for giving them the world's tiniest sandbox to play in if they sincerely love this product so much. If it weren't for him, there might still be good wrestling around and people wouldn't get to see Joey Janela vs. Marko Stunt in a flossing contest to see who gets to smell Penelope Ford's feet.

[Bad News Gertner]

AEW and NXT are fighting over the same 1.5 million fans give or take every week and have been since the beginning. With it being a niche product of a niche product, the ceiling isn't very high for either NXT or AEW.

[#1-norm-fan]

They are beating the C show. People can pump up NXT all they want. It's still the C show the caters to a niche audience of a niche audience.

They’re beating WWE’s C-show. That WWE has, and still does, use their A-show talent on. Some people definitely over-hype that fact but I think you’re under-hyping it. It’s pretty much the best start that could be expected.

And I’m not even saying that’s as much praise of AEW as it is damning on WWE’s part. Putting their A-show stars on a primetime version of Velocity in the early 2000s and making them “Velocity champions” would have led to Velocity smoking any new competition. They’ve lost that luxury. That’s a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[Emperor Smeat]

I think there's a lot of supposition going on here. The WWE Network is "probably" only strong enough to cover the live and DVR gaps? Where's that coming from? How do you know it's not 300k people from the US? That more than overtakes that gap. Plus you would have AEW viewers who would casually follow NXT having another day to actually keep up.

Is there any evidence that the Network audience skewers older? Streaming services are usually accessed by younger audiences. WWE still gets a lot of older fans to order things on PPV, which seems bass ackwards, but happens. I think that's where a lot of that "key demo" is for NXT. It's not that AEW is some hot young thang that people are really into -- the younger crowd just watches Thursdays on their tablets and shit.

It's one of the biggest spins Meltzer puts on things to make AEW look great. Droford is right, these audiences are probably way closer to being the same few saps who still try to give this bullshit a chance every week.


Because if the numbers were a lot stronger, then NXT would constantly be in the Top 2-3 for the Network's weekly show rankings when that hasn't been the case the past few months. Plus wouldn't need the Network for NXT if you have DVR capabilities on your tv to watch the show later.

Network likely does skew older considering how much its been struggling to grow compared to other streaming services and a lot of its content caters towards older WWE and wrestling fans.

[#1-norm-fan]

Basically, WWE’s “niche of a niche” audience is becoming a higher and higher percentage of their overall audience because they’re losing the rest. And that “niche of a niche” audience now prefers something else.

[Bad News Gertner]

They’re beating WWE’s C-show. That WWE has, and still does, use their A-show talent on. Some people definitely over-hype that fact but I think you’re under-hyping it. It’s pretty much the best start that could be expected.

And I’m not even saying that’s as much praise of AEW as it is damning on WWE’s part. Putting their A-show stars on a primetime version of Velocity in the early 2000s and making them “Velocity champions” would have led to Velocity smoking any new competition. They’ve lost that luxury. That’s a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things.

No different than Impact beating ECW

[Mr. Nerfect]

They’re beating WWE’s C-show. That WWE has, and still does, use their A-show talent on. Some people definitely over-hype that fact but I think you’re under-hyping it. It’s pretty much the best start that could be expected.

And I’m not even saying that’s as much praise of AEW as it is damning on WWE’s part. Putting their A-show stars on a primetime version of Velocity in the early 2000s and making them “Velocity champions” would have led to Velocity smoking any new competition. They’ve lost that luxury. That’s a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I...dunno about that. Like, I loved me some Velocity back in the day, haha, but I don't think Chris Benoit vs. William Regal was going to smoke TNA or whatever. And the "A-show" talent in WWE aren't popping ratings on bigger shows, let alone smaller shows. I agree on that being an indictment, but using those stars on the show is mainly for their storytelling purposes and to just generate that content, content, content.

If NXT really wanted to beat AEW in the ratings, they'd have some a really big fucking angle by now. Daniel Bryan would have gone back to try and win the NXT Championship. Rey Mysterio and Ricochet would be having a best of seven series. The Bullet Club would have been feuding with The Undisputed Era. John Cena would have come back to humble Tomasso Ciampa for talking shit about the main roster and been the outside heel coming in. All those things are easy. Having Charlotte Flair win the NXT Women's Championship is...yeah, that's not them busting it.

And I personally think AEW could be doing much better. There's no reason you can't get the eyeballs that float around cable looking for wrestling onto you with a decent product. I honestly think the quality does matter, as it did with TNA.

Because if the numbers were a lot stronger, then NXT would constantly be in the Top 2-3 for the Network's weekly show rankings when that hasn't been the case the past few months. Plus wouldn't need the Network for NXT if you have DVR capabilities on your tv to watch the show later.

Network likely does skew older considering how much its been struggling to grow compared to other streaming services and a lot of its content caters towards older WWE and wrestling fans.

Obviously some fans have jumped from the Network to watch on USA, so of course it would drop down the charts there. I mean, is there any data to suggest what number it gets? It just sounds like pure speculation either way. And I don't doubt not needing the Network for NXT. But if I had the Network, even if I didn't need it, I might will watch it on the Network instead of on DVR, so I don't really get that point. I'm sure some people do DVR it, and I've heard the numbers for that are quite high. But there's no way to tell whether those people have the Network or not.

I'm sure the Network has been struggling to grow, but what does that have to do with age and not just a market cap? And what content actually caters to older fans? I'm not fucking Ride Along, haha. What's to suggest younger people aren't watching NXT, 205 Live, old PPVs and documentaries on there? I mean, until we have the data we can't really say that it skewers towards old people. That's just what you want it to do, haha.

[#1-norm-fan]

If NXT really wanted to beat AEW in the ratings, they'd have some a really big fucking angle by now. Daniel Bryan would have gone back to try and win the NXT Championship. Rey Mysterio and Ricochet would be having a best of seven series. The Bullet Club would have been feuding with The Undisputed Era. John Cena would have come back to humble Tomasso Ciampa for talking shit about the main roster and been the outside heel coming in. All those things are easy. Having Charlotte Flair win the NXT Women's Championship is...yeah, that's not them busting it.

You sure about that? Obviously, Cena coming back for an NXT feud would be huge but they can’t even afford to drag him away from bigger and better things for the main product on a regular basis, much less NXT. As far as Bryan, Mysterio, Ricochet and Ciampa... Let’s be honest... None of them are much bigger of a draw than Charlotte. They’re all just cogs in the wheel at this point. If WWE were trying, they’d be doing exactly what they’re doing. They’d suddenly start mixing their C-show and A-show talent, oddly have the C-show beat the A-show on a brand war PPV, and then put a C-show title on an A-show star.

We can argue exactly how important it is but if you don’t think they’re trying given everything they’ve done, you’re in denial.

[#1-norm-fan]

No different than Impact beating ECW

We’re they head-to-head? And was it during the time where WWE was randomly throwing Batista and Flair in the main event? Because if it was and TNA was winning, they REALLY screwed the pooch.

[Emperor Smeat]

Don't think so since outside of that brief time Impact went against RAW, TNA/Impact usually avoided the days WWE had their shows on.

[BigCrippyZ]

You sure about that? Obviously, Cena coming back for an NXT feud would be huge but they can’t even afford to drag him away from bigger and better things for the main product on a regular basis, much less NXT. As far as Bryan, Mysterio, Ricochet and Ciampa... Let’s be honest... None of them are much bigger of a draw than Charlotte. They’re all just cogs in the wheel at this point. If WWE were trying, they’d be doing exactly what they’re doing. They’d suddenly start mixing their C-show and A-show talent, oddly have the C-show beat the A-show on a brand war PPV, and then put a C-show title on an A-show star.

We can argue exactly how important it is but if you don’t think they’re trying given everything they’ve done, you’re in denial.

Either in denial, delusional, or just an idiot.

[Bad News Gertner]

We’re they head-to-head? And was it during the time where WWE was randomly throwing Batista and Flair in the main event? Because if it was and TNA was winning, they REALLY screwed the pooch.

In 2007 they were for a bit. I remember hearing about it.

[slik]

2.14 for SD


https://i.postimg.cc/JhYXzg6S/image.jpg

[slik]

For the week:

SD - 2.14 million
RAW - 1.73 million
AEW - 827k
NXT - 731k

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, Smackdown more than doubling AEW on a notoriously terrible night for t.v.

R.I.P

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

:lol:

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The era of Wednesdays being the leading wrestling night is near.<br><br>In late Sep 2019 (roughly a lifetime ago) I wrote that AEW+NXT combined viewership would intersect with Raw and Smackdown individually by 2021.<a href="https://t.co/Q9C7KRRaLp">https://t.co/Q9C7KRRaLp</a><br><br>COVID might be accelerating the process. <a href="https://t.co/lkRWXnj63u">https://t.co/lkRWXnj63u</a></p>&mdash; Brandon Thurston (@BrandonThurston) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1266202819385851905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Found that to be pretty interesting since a similar thing happened with Mondays becoming the new top day for wrestling after the Nitro vs. RAW rivalry had time to cement itself and kick things into a new gear.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You sure about that? Obviously, Cena coming back for an NXT feud would be huge but they can’t even afford to drag him away from bigger and better things for the main product on a regular basis, much less NXT. As far as Bryan, Mysterio, Ricochet and Ciampa... Let’s be honest... None of them are much bigger of a draw than Charlotte. They’re all just cogs in the wheel at this point. If WWE were trying, they’d be doing exactly what they’re doing. They’d suddenly start mixing their C-show and A-show talent, oddly have the C-show beat the A-show on a brand war PPV, and then put a C-show title on an A-show star.

We can argue exactly how important it is but if you don’t think they’re trying given everything they’ve done, you’re in denial.

With Cena it's not so much that they can't afford him as it would be insurance and risking his film schedule. But they could have very easily put him on NXT for his most recent run.

I really wouldn't argue too much with Bryan, Mysterio, Ricochet, etc. being just cogs in the machine. But that's why it's amazing to people act like Charlotte was sent there like it was some revolutionary attempt to encourage 200k more people to watch NXT. It's kind of the point, haha.

There is no way anyone can look at NXT and think "Man, WWE have really tried to make that show a priority." Charlotte Flair winning the Women's Title is not that thing, as much as a bunch of dolts with 15-year-old boy syndrome want to pretend it is. Adam Cole beating Daniel Bryan on SmackDown one week isn't that thing either. You'll know when NXT becomes the priority, if that happens. All roads will lead there instead of from there.

It's AEW and AEW fans that think Vince McMahon is paying them any attention at all. They're 800k viewers on a Wednesday and a $45 million TV rights deal. And because Dave Meltzer talks to them, and possibly to keep subscribers coming back and because the guy running AEW was an Observer guy, it's important to push the narrative that AEW is a threat.

That's why you get things like Dave setting expectations for their TV low. And him conflating domestic PPV buys with international PPV buys in order to say things like "AEW does better on PPV than anyone since WCW." Never mind ECW used to get 99k PPV buys quite regularly from domestic and terrestrial PPV. AEW can be ordered virtually anywhere in the world via a smart phone and it only gets 100k and about two thirds of that from the US. It's why you hear the "key demo" (in 2020 in relation to an ageing medium, mind you) is mentioned almost exclusively when it comes to Dynamite, whereas it's largely ignored when it comes to Raw and SmackDown. It's also why he reports their production cost TV deal being extended like it's a major shocking new development, whereas when WWE re-announces the Saudi deal, Vince comes under fire from the same sources. I've got no problem with Vince coming under fire, but when Tony Khan pulls the same shit he should get the same shit.

And I don't mind Dave being biased -- I really don't. It's a very American thing to expect journalists to be unbiased, I think. I just think it's frustrating that the other more realistic doesn't get as much playtime. And it doesn't make Dave's perspective true.

Sorry to go on that tangent, but I'm just sick of the bullshit narrative that Vince McMahon gives two flying fucks about AEW being pushed. Fucking Meltzer couldn't even keep their names out of his mouth when the XFL folded, haha.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I appreciate the blue sky thinking when it comes to AEW. I was right there until they started chopping and changing booking plans for reasons that made ZERO sense and no one called them out on it. Then they did that Casino Battle Royale and it was done for me. First match. World Title shot. Glacier. Fucking idiots. I'm sorry, but it's just bad. There's no two ways around it. It's not "not perfect." That's absolutely atrocious booking -- and it was the first thing they did. And they loved it so much they did the same thing with ladders a year later -- even after the owner said it was a mistake to do it in the first place.

As someone who gives a shit about wrestling and wants it to get better, I just can't stand that people still stand by a company that is making Vince McMahon more powerful. And there is a time to call a spade a spade. AEW is PWG with a budget and some real late-stage WCW style booking. If we're lucky we might get someone else giving it a shot in another 20 years. Have fun with anyone worth a shit in AEW jumping ship to the WWE within the next five, by the way, haha. If you want to be recognized at an airport, you still need Vince McMahon more than ever.

[Emperor Smeat]

Seems SD's increase with last week's episode might not be accurate due to issues with FOX's broadcast. Some stations were not airing SD and instead were covering the riots during that time slot.

The number being listed for Friday's Smackdown show of 2,150,000 viewers could be misleading. Fast nationals cover all FOX stations in the time slot. Some stations pre-empted Smackdown for coverage of the riots, which obviously would do far more viewers. They are counted in the fast nationals as Smackdown. How significant that changes the actual number won't be known until tomorrow at the earliest.


Also based on some new data, AEW managed to hit 1 million viewers at one point during last week's episode. Think it would be the first time since launch month or so where AEW had that happen during the middle of a show.

The peak number of AEW's Battle Royal on Wednesday topped 1 million total viewers and 500,000 in 18-49 from the point of Orange Cassidy coming in and the finish. Tony Khan came up with the storyline for the match of Cassidy getting destroyed early, disappearing and coming back at the end. Cody and Khan came up with the detail work on the match and the producers were Christopher Daniels, Colt Cabana and Billy Gunn. The Battle Royal actually beat the Mike Tyson segment.

[#1-norm-fan]

I really wouldn't argue too much with Bryan, Mysterio, Ricochet, etc. being just cogs in the machine. But that's why it's amazing to people act like Charlotte was sent there like it was some revolutionary attempt to encourage 200k more people to watch NXT. It's kind of the point, haha. .

Well, no. Your point is that they aren’t trying. WE know Charlotte isn’t a huge star. For them she’s one of the biggest stars in the company and one of the most decorated superstars in WWE history. Our ability to see through the bullshit doesn’t mean she’s not a big deal in WWE’s mind. Hence putting her on the C-show is clearly an attempt to get eyes on the C-show. Otherwise they just... wouldn’t do it.

And I knew nothing about Adam Cole beating Daniel Bryan. But again, they wouldn’t have the C-show start and WIN a brand war against Raw and Smackdown at Survivor Series if they weren’t trying.

[#1-norm-fan]

I appreciate the blue sky thinking when it comes to AEW. I was right there until they started chopping and changing booking plans for reasons that made ZERO sense and no one called them out on it. Then they did that Casino Battle Royale and it was done for me. First match. World Title shot. Glacier. Fucking idiots.

On a side note, it’s weird the Glacier seems to be your main issue with that battle royal. Lol

[#1-norm-fan]

Fucker was one of the most credible guys in that thing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, no. Your point is that they aren’t trying. WE know Charlotte isn’t a huge star. For them she’s one of the biggest stars in the company and one of the most decorated superstars in WWE history. Our ability to see through the bullshit doesn’t mean she’s not a big deal in WWE’s mind. Hence putting her on the C-show is clearly an attempt to get eyes on the C-show. Otherwise they just... wouldn’t do it.

And I knew nothing about Adam Cole beating Daniel Bryan. But again, they wouldn’t have the C-show start and WIN a brand war against Raw and Smackdown at Survivor Series if they weren’t trying.

They aren't trying that hard is my point, and certainly not as hard AEW's most annoying members of their audience claim. They aren't hot-shotting or pulling panic moves. They don't load the cards with their most globally recognized talent. They're even taking talent away from them. The Saudi Arabia thing grounding WWE talent was a happy accident, but it's not like the NXT stars are on SmackDown every week and that WWE screams "Watch NXT!" every week.

On a side note, it’s weird the Glacier seems to be your main issue with that battle royal. Lol

He's just the example I use. Because it's fucking Glacier. There were way worse people in that match, true. But it's fucking Glacier. Also, Tommy Dreamer and Billy Gunn were there. In a match with World Title implications. In 2019. And it's fucking Glacier.

[#1-norm-fan]

It was their first show. It’s not like they had time to build up a bunch of stars. I don’t think having some older wrestlers fill out the 21 guys fighting to be your first champion is that offensive.

I’m just saying if I were you, I’d have gone with the fucking legless dude or the fucking fat backyard wrestler to make my point WAY before fucking Glacier.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If it's your first show, maybe don't book a Battle Royal for a World Title shot? Why not use all of the to make my point. I don't use Glacier to exclude anyone else. By the way, not sure if you remember, but Glacier actually froze someone during the match.

[slik]

RAW took a beating from news last night, I don't think I've ever seen it at 12, 13 & 17 before.


Avg - 1.728 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)

Most watched on YT:
Drew vs MVP - 514k
Rey & Dominick Mysterio - 474k
Asuka vs Charlotte - 384k


https://i.postimg.cc/t45Yvkmv/Screenshot-2020-06-02-at-3-28-04-PM.png

[slik]

4.178 million for the Rock/Titan Games on NBC

[Mr. Nerfect]

That’s what I’m telling you. If The Rock started up a pro-wrestling company, it would do huge numbers. It’ll be massive. AEW can keep their 800k on a Wednesday or whatever, and Rock can do 3 or 4 million on a Tuesday.

[Seanny One Ball]

The Rock has the Midas touch

[Seanny One Ball]

That’s what I’m telling you. If The Rock started up a pro-wrestling company, it would do huge numbers. It’ll be massive.

I genuinely just cropped a similar sentiment out of my previous post because I thought it seemed too out there.

It's true though, one man's brand is several times stronger than WWE as a whole.

[slik]

Looks like SD didn't do as well as originally thought

(OTIS still bringing those ratings tho, #oWo)


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A correction from yesterday's update, the Smackdown number from Friday was 2,054,000 not 2,170,000. The latter number figured in news coverage in certain markets. I thought that number was weird when I saw it.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1267922266660065281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Emperor Smeat]

FOX being more than willing to pre-empt SD for news is probably a bit worrying on WWE's end.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Jesus Christ, Dave Meltzer is so full of shit these days. An estimated 100k from an audience of 2 million? And Dave felt “weird” looking at? Double it and it still wouldn’t be a big deal for anyone who looks at Nielsen numbers.

Then you get apostles like Smeat spreading all this wank about how WWE should be concerned about their 0.7 key demo share (usually the best of the night). If it were AEW getting a 0.35 and still getting smashed in terms of overall viewership, Smelly Meatball wouldn’t be saying that shit.

So fucking annoying. I know people are biased and believe everything they read, but 2.17 million people looked weird to Dave Meltzer? 2.05 million, ah, there we go. Come off it lol.

[Triple A]

He's saying he thought it was weird because when the overnight SmackDown number came out (2.15m), he said that the final number is going to probably drop when it figures in the news coverage. Then the "final" number came out and it was initially listed as more than the overnight number, that's why he "thought it was weird"... When it was corrected, his prediction that it would drop was right

Calm down man...

[Emperor Smeat]

The fuck did I do to deserve this shit from Noid.

Since he thinks he's better, he can handle the sheet news for the forums from now on.

[slik]

I have a feeling both NXT and AEW are going to take a beating from Cable News this week too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He's saying he thought it was weird because when the overnight SmackDown number came out (2.15m), he said that the final number is going to probably drop when it figures in the news coverage. Then the "final" number came out and it was initially listed as more than the overnight number, that's why he "thought it was weird"... When it was corrected, his prediction that it would drop was right

Calm down man...

That makes a little more sense if the number grew crazily. But to look at a number and think it looks weird when it's off by 100k at that size is just Dave being a douche on Twitter and doing the whole "AEW = good/WWE = bad" thing.

What's wrong with saying "2.15 million to 2.07 million," or whatever the number is, "not much of a drop"?

Smeat, I'm not blaming you for what Dave said, lol. It's just the bullshit sentiment that he's anything other than completely biased one way at this point. Not so much all the news he gets -- I'm absolutely not echoing the line that he's always just guessed and whatever -- but anything as it pertains to AEW/WWE he's just waaaaaay off on all the time, and that extends to his commentary on the ratings.

SmackDown kills it in the "key demo" every week. I personally think that's an antiquated way to look at television in 2020, since TV audiences are no doubt going to skewer older and there are way more effective ways to market to younger people (react videos on YouTube). But they're an antiquated as advertisers want them to be. But that key demo is never talked about. Nor is Raw's, which absolutely slaughters AEW's on basic cable. Nah, that ruins the narrative that WWE's audience is a bunch of old fogies and AEW's got the cool, hip crowd -- which they just don't. They only beat NXT in that demo because, and I guarantee this, the younger audience either DVRs or Network watches it, because that's just easier when they're doing the whole "support the new guys" thing. If you got those numbers, I bet you'd find there isn't much a difference between the people who watch AEW and the people who watch NXT. But that doesn't suit the Meltzer agenda, which is to help get his newsletter over by appealing to the hardcore fans, and by making the promotion run by a guy who has admitted to reading him look more competent and deliberate than it is. And because he likes them.

People are going to be biased. Even Meltzer. He really doesn't have any obligation not to be. He's forced himself to watch boring, bland, shit WWE for hours and hours each week long after most of us have given up. Of course he's going to like the wrestling equivalent to a cat shitting on a toilet. But it would just be nice if people would -- not "call it out," per se -- but acknowledged it.

* Vince McMahon didn't get involved in NXT.

* WWE didn't try to completely steamroll AEW. They slowed it down and are waiting it out.

* $45 million would have covered production costs for a show in 2016. AEW says their shows are cheaper, but there's something fishy going on there when they had that production deal and it suddenly gets "increased" to $45 million, per Dave's reporting on it.

* WWE are idiots when they don't promote NXT that heavily on their main roster so as to not go for broke right out the gate. This is all the while they are definitely, completely going for broke out the gate, but rushing programs like Adam Cole vs. Tommaso Ciampa, which finally led to a match between the two, what, four months after NXT started on USA?

* They were definitely trying to get the jump on AEW by starting earlier on USA. It couldn't just be that they wanted to piggy-back off the final episodes of Suits and debut programming unopposed to anything else in the genre in order to promote their scope to networks when they inevitably decide they want a new show another $100 million per year or so. Nope. Definitely thought that no one would watch a brand new wrestling promotion on TNT outside their umbrella hard over those first months.

I get it's fun to call the WWE idiots and think of them as the evil empire. A lot of the shit they do is completely evil. But there's this false level of incompetence assigned to a promotion that has set itself up to generate over $500 million in revenue every year, all designed to make Vince McMahon a billionaire. No one really gives a shit if Tony Khan gets to send $2.5 million back to his dad every year because TNT rounded up production costs. Yet we have to put up with Dave saying "I'm not saying they're winning, but they've won." Come off it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have a feeling both NXT and AEW are going to take a beating from Cable News this week too.

I don't know if they're going to take a beating because of the news. People watch wrestling and other shows to distract themselves some ways, and with a 24/7 news cycle, people can schedule their entertainment around in a way that the news isn't really "competing" with wrestling like people say.

I mean, more people are going to watch the news with all this stuff going on, but I doubt they were people who were watching AEW and NXT anyway. Not in any significant movement, anyway. People can watch AEW or NXT and look at their phones. Or they can flick over to the news before and after. They'll be down in the overall placements, but I just think the idea that the news "cuts into" wrestling is a bit exaggerated, and was used in the early stages of the pandemic to explain away boring shows.

[Seanny One Ball]

I'd just like to say that I too immediately thought "Fuck off Meltzer, you look weird to me!" when I read the Tweet.
He's a gimp.

[Bad News Gertner]

June 3, 2020

AEW 730,000
NXT 715,000

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, that's what happens when you put on a lackluster show

[slik]

That's way better than I expected either to do given the news

Here's the demo breakdown


https://i.postimg.cc/wvq4YVQ4/Screenshot-2020-06-04-at-3-23-26-PM.png

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol they literally made a massive deal about Mike Tyson and did jack shit with it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Seems older viewers were the biggest reason for AEW's decline and not just the over 50 group.

Key demo only dropped by 0.3 points but they suffered a major drop of 0.9 points from those in their mid 20s to mid 50s. Was enough to tank the gains they got from younger viewers.

NXT going down is weird thought since their numbers actually were up or steady for the most case.

[slik]

This is cool -- 4 of the top 6 spots for social media interaction are WWE and AEW


https://i.postimg.cc/sXBy77MX/EZoj46-ZXg-AAW-me.jpg

[Evil Vito]

That’s a real good showing for both considering everything happening in the world.

[Emperor Smeat]

If WWE ever wanted to do a major cross-over, that World of Dance show from NBC would be a perfect fit since Fandango can teach the world what real quality dancing looks like.

[Emperor Smeat]

Tyson or no Tyson, seems AEW stood no chance against the domination of news coverage from the protests. Only reason they managed to squeak out a win was due to NXT bleeding away a ton more viewers throughout the show.

The end of 8PM quarter-hour was particularly brutal for both shows in terms of viewer hits.

In the first quarter, AEW with Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Kip Sabian & Jimmy Havoc did 740,000 viewers and 387,000 in 18-49. The were hurt by a weak lead-in while NXT usually benefits from a very strong one. NXT did 790,000 viewers and 259,000 in18-49 for Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano. It was NXT’s high point for overall viewers ...

In the fourth quarter, AEW lost 62,000 viewers and 61,000 in 18-49 for a Jericho/Tyson vignette and the beginning of Jericho vs. Colt Cabana. NXT lost 66,000 viewers and 21,000 in 18-49 for the Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch No. 1 contenders to the tag title match.

[slik]

1.935 million for SD


Most Watched on YT:
Braun flips van - 554k
Womens Tag Titles - 322k
Otis vs Corbin -311k


https://i.postimg.cc/85rm8D7m/Fast-Demo-2020-Jun-05-FRI.png

[slik]

Here's how the big 4 did for the week:

SD - 1.935 million
RAW - 1.728 million
AEW - 730k
NXT - 715k

[Mr. Nerfect]

Still beating NBC and CBS in that key demo. Pretty shocking for viewership though.

[#1-norm-fan]

What does the “R” before all those other shows mean?

[Emperor Smeat]

Rerun episode of a show and not a new or live episode.

Showbuzz stated in their report that the numbers might be skewed again this week due to some local networks might have pre-empted those shows with news shows.

[Volare]

If you haven't seen it, it's new to you!!

[slik]

RAW - avg 1.737 million


https://i.postimg.cc/xChZG4vq/Screenshot-2020-06-09-at-8-06-32-PM.png

[slik]

WWE Backstage made a return to the top 150 programs on Cable Tuesday, narrowly defeating a re-run of the 1964 series Gomer Pyle, USMC on Sundance.

The replay of Evolution, like WM31 the week before, did not make the top 150 programs so ratings are not available.

https://i.postimg.cc/qMsz3Qyc/Screenshot-2020-06-10-at-4-48-37-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Considering the last time WWE and FOX had an all-women's episode of Backstage it didn't rank so this week's episode is probably a success in their books.

The replay of the all-women Evolution show doing a poor job as a lead-in and not ranking is a different story. Last time FS1 had an all-women's block of WWE shows, it was very hit-or-miss for ratings.

[slik]

Titan Games pulled in 3.833 million viewers this week.

[#1-norm-fan]

I’m just glad Jim Nabors isn’t alive to see this EMBARRASSING ratings loss.

[slik]

Not a great week for either NXT or AEW. I'm surprised, I figured NXT would get a post Takeover bump and AEW should have been back in the 800s since they put on an A+ show this week.


AEW - 677k
NXT - 673k


https://i.postimg.cc/D0Gs71ww/Final-Cable-2020-Jun-10-WED.png

[Mr. Nerfect]

Basically a wash. NXT turned things around with that Pit Fight.