Ratings Thread

[Emperor Smeat]

Not really since just like AEW and the Tyson showdown, all it ended up being was just a cheap ratings pop since both shows have been going down since then. Plus that episode also

The real turn around was NXT finally getting a crowd for their shows to liven things up.

According to the Observer, seems NASCAR was the main reason for both shows drop this week since it ate big into their key demo and young viewership. The numbers would have been even worse had older viewers not gone up for both shows.

[Bad News Gertner]

Not a great week for either NXT or AEW. I'm surprised, I figured NXT would get a post Takeover bump and AEW should have been back in the 800s since they put on an A+ show this week.


AEW - 677k
NXT - 673k


https://i.postimg.cc/D0Gs71ww/Final-Cable-2020-Jun-10-WED.png

A+ for the smarks.

Casual fans don't care and won't care about a product like AEW or NXT. They've already hit their ceiling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I don't know why people expect AEW to magically hit 1 million viewers again. It's done.

[Bad News Gertner]

It MAY hit 1 million, but it's not getting back to 1.4 million like their debut.

[Bad News Gertner]

In February 2015, TNA Impact drew 691,000 fans on DESTINATION AMERICA!

[XL]

How low would you say the perception of wrestling is at the minute? All time low?

[Bad News Gertner]

I would say so

[slik]

2.016 million for SD

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Fast-Demo-2020-Jun-12-FRI.png

[slik]

Here's how the big 4 did this week:

SD - 2.016 million
RAW - 1.737 million
AEW - 677k
NXT - 673k

[Mr. Nerfect]

It MAY hit 1 million, but it's not getting back to 1.4 million like their debut.

Maybe for a freak occurrence. It's an arbitrary number anyway. I'm just sick of people telling me that they're "building momentum" and it's going to get really popular soon. Wtf? No.

That would be ridiculous even if the product was good, but it is very clearly the most cannibalistic wrestling product of all-time. One of their most pushed acts mocks the genre he's in. It's post-ironic wrestling, and that's only going to appeal to a certain subsection of wrestling fans, of which there are fewer and fewer being serviced.

[Emperor Smeat]

2.016 million for SD

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Fast-Demo-2020-Jun-12-FRI.png

Outside of 1 week when it went over 2.1 million, SD pretty much has settled into a 1.9 million to 2.0 million range these past 2 months.

They got the demo win this week but still can't get a win in viewership even with the other networks throwing softballs again with airing repeats of shows.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SmackDown holds up better than AEW in both terms of retaining their viewership and demo.

[Emperor Smeat]

SD being on a stronger network and a weaker day in general in terms of stiff competition helps a lot.

When the show used to be on Fridays during the Taped Era and on a weaker network, their numbers held up similar in terms of being able to retain it better and not suffer from the same spikes both RAW and AEW have been getting.

[slik]

The first episode of the Prichard era of Raw increased by 202,000 live viewers from the previous week.


Avg - 1.939 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


https://i.postimg.cc/658NqKV1/Screenshot-2020-06-16-at-3-08-53-PM.png

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haha, wow. Look, beginner’s luck is a thing, they were coming off a PPV and there is even morbid curiosity, but Prichard might just be the right guy for that company. 200k viewers is over a quarter of the AEW audience though. Bruce is having a good week.

[Emperor Smeat]

Best number since RAW After Mania even if it still was a sub-2 million number in the end.

Seems that big increase was almost all from the 50+ group since it spiked a lot this week. Took a sizeable hit with younger viewers but that old people gain was huge enough to both absorb it and cause the viewership to rise by a lot.

[slik]

You are correct Smeat, I just saw a John Pollock tweet about the increase being entirely from 50+, the 18-49 demo stayed the same and Meltzer said the teen demo, especially male teens, plummeted to as low as ever.

[Emperor Smeat]

If the reason was due to younger fans preferring more ring action than storytelling, then last night's show was not a good one for them. 1st two hours featured just 12-13 minutes of that.

Even in terms of the big hype generators for last night's show, it pretty much leaned on the older side with the fallout from the "Greatest Wrestling Match Ever", Christian's appearance being leaked, and curiosity of a Prichard-run RAW show. Nothing really that enticing from the younger side of the company.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Basic cable is not the best way to reach that audience in 2020. Meltzer, who takes ratings way too literally has not adapted to that. It's possible that cable network executives still take key demos seriously, because it's their business and they want their archaic medium to be as "cool" as possible, but everyone has to know. "Cable" over here has basically switched to an OTT service, at least provided as an on-demand alternative.

Meltzer is just looking for a way to slog off WWE again. Never mind that Raw's "key demo" rating is basically double what AEW gets. Nielsen themselves seem more interested in working out other sorts of demographics, including black viewers, Hispanic viewers and LGBT+ viewers. Cable has moved on from 18-49 as an umbrella demo -- all except for Meltzer and Showbuzz.

Long story short: Meltzer will spin the ratings whichever way he can to make WWE look bad. Viewership going up 200k and allowing advertisers to reach an audience a quarter the size of AEW's entire viewership -- young or old -- is undoubtedly a good thing. It doesn't mean all the WWE's issues disappear forever, but come the fuck on, lol. If you sell a fucking blender to 1% of that Raw audience, it's way more prestigious than selling a fucking Super-Soaker to some 45-year-old virgin watching AEW. You've still sold 19k blenders.

I'd like to hear about which show has the more culturally diverse audience too. You know, instead of the Meltzer spin making it sound like the 18-49 audience AEW gets (much less of than Raw, by the way) is some young and hip crowd, as opposed to being fat white people closer to 50 than 18, who still watch NXT on the WWE Network anyway.

[Emperor Smeat]

Now Showbuzz's numbers suddenly are not good enough for you despite having no problems with them before, especially when it came to gloating or boasting about WWE's numbers over AEW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've never said the numbers aren't "good enough." The numbers are what they are. It's how you read them that matters. I don't doubt that Nielsen calculates 750k with a 0.25 demo or whatever to be AEW's purported numbers. It's just how literally and seriously you take that in 2020 or when the numbers are that low that a few boxes could throw them out, seemingly significantly.

I don't "gloat" about WWE's numbers. I just find it fun to point out when people "gloat" about Dynamite "beating" NXT by 11k viewers or whatever (which could mean one person with a box fell asleep), compared to the industry leader (apparently uncool), which more than doubles them in overall viewership and that alleged key demo. By that archaic system, AEW still doesn't perform like people try to will it to.

Again, I understand why people are biased, but it's just fucking frustrating for someone who likes to look at things logically to see "NXT UP!" as the ratings subheading, or whatever, and "Raw is fucking crashing" when Raw is doing significantly well compared to AEW, who don't even have a significant lead on the "competition" they are said to be beating each week. It's a crooked narrative.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How often does Meltzer talk about the key demo for Raw? Hardly fucking ever. It usually only comes up when talking about AEW because it is the one way they usually look somewhat significantly better than NXT. The story with Raw is the falling viewership. And when it's not the falling viewership, then we'll focus on the "key demo," which usually never comes up because it smokes AEW or was otherwise quite strong even prior to AEW starting up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SmackDown aces the key demo almost every week on Fridays. It performs very well in that slot. Doesn't it usually get a 0.7? I think it tied someone this week. That's not important when talking about SmackDown though, because what is important is "tsk, tsk, viewership." Until that viewership goes up, then if the key demo sits around the same, it will be that they didn't increase that. It'd work the other way with AEW. If the viewership goes up, that will be the story, even if the key demo goes down -- but if the key demo is strong, then the viewership won't matter.

[Emperor Smeat]

More often than you think considering that's what him and Alvarez usually do during their weekly Radio show, Newsletters, and websites and not just in response to AEW.

If your expecting detailed stuff from Meltzer for RAW, that's usually in his Newsletter.

If your expecting something similar to the breakdowns he does for AEW and NXT, your not really going to get that because there is no direct wrestling comparisons for Monday unlike Wednesday. Even he mentioned that's the reason he regained interest in doing detailed demo breakdowns because of the new Wednesday War. Closest your going to get for Mondays is whenever football or playoffs are on giving that day.

Literally from today's report on the Observer's website about RAW's ratings this week.

The 0.53 rating in 18-49 was identical to last week even though it was a strong 12 percent increase in viewers overall. The real gains from last week were with teenagers and those over the age of 50.

While the open was strong, the show kept its viewers through tons of talking and angles better than any Raw episode in a long time, with the second hour beating the first and the third hour only being down seven percent from the first.

The show was down 13 percent from the same week last year and 25 percent in 18-49, both numbers better than the show had been doing.

From hour one to three, the show dropped 14 percent with women 18-49, and 12 percent with men 18-49, 12 percent with teenage girls, and 26 percent with teenage boys but only five percent with the largest audience, which is those over 50.

Last week's:

Raw did a 0.53 in 18-49, up eight percent from last week even though viewership overall was almost identical. Raw tied for third place in the demo since news shows were at a much lower level than last week. Overall Raw was 23rd on cable for the night and fourth among non-news shows.

The top two shows were episodes of 90 Day Fiance on TLC which did 3.36 million and 2.67 million viewers and 1.03 and 0.78 ratings in 18-49.

Raw was down 18.3 percent from the same week last year, but that show went head-to-head with an NBA playoff game that did 18.22 million viewers and was also the all-time non-holiday low up to that point in history, which shows how much the bottom number has dropped over the past year.

The first-to-third hour drops were 15 percent with women 18-49, 14 percent for men 18-49, 32 percent with teenage girls while teenage boys increased four percent from hour one to three and over 50 dropped nine percent.

1st week of June:
Raw did a 0.49 in 18-49, placing it 13th in the demo behind 11 news shows and Below Deck Mediterranean on Bravo which did 0.55.

Titan Games on NBC against the first hour of Raw did 4,152,000 viewers, a 21 percent increase from week one, even with the intense news that dominated the day.

Raw was overall only 42nd in viewership on cable, but of the shows that beat it, only two were entertainment shows, both episodes of 90 Day Fiance on TLC.

As far as the usual first-to-third hour viewer decline, it was 22 percent in women 18-49, 20 percent in men 18-49, 22 percent in teenage girls, and eight percent in teenage boys. The overall number would have been much worse but the first-to-third hour decline was only six percent in over 50, which is the company's prime viewing audience these days.

Total viewers were down 29 percent from the same week last year.

The record low for Raw in the modern era was on May 4 with 1.68 million viewers and 0.46 in 18-49. This week's third hour of 1.57 million viewers was the second lowest of the modern era, behind hour three on May 4 that did 1.55 million.
This one did include a bit on AEW but more on them having the most viewers at home average by around a 0.1 of a difference that week compared to what they were averaging before. Also an update on Smackdown's rating since the prior week's numbers were thrown off by the protests and riots coverage.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m not saying he doesn’t include them numbers, Smeat. I’m saying he uses them in sly ways. Yes, usually on his radio shows. But look at the use of “even though” and “only.” I get why he does the anti-WWE thing.

[slik]

AEW and NXT both bounced back up this week


AEW - 772k
NXT - 746k


https://i.postimg.cc/tCbYcJtQ/Screenshot-2020-06-18-at-3-19-17-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Nice boost overall for both shows. The lack of any major sports competition helped as well.

[XL]

Haven’t they been without major sports competition for weeks?

[Emperor Smeat]

Last week had a NASCAR race which had some added interest over the whole Confederate flag controversy that ended up boosting its numbers more than usual.

[Bad News Gertner]

The same 1.5 million fans each week give or take

[slik]

SD had like 2.04 million or something

[Droford]

WWE Backstage made a return to the top 150 programs on Cable Tuesday, narrowly defeating a re-run of the 1964 series Gomer Pyle, USMC on Sundance.

The replay of Evolution, like WM31 the week before, did not make the top 150 programs so ratings are not available.

https://i.postimg.cc/qMsz3Qyc/Screenshot-2020-06-10-at-4-48-37-PM.png

2 weeks later Backstage is canceled

[slik]

Technically it will still air before PPVs, like a pre-kickoff 'kickoff show'

[slik]

RAW - 1.922 million

[Emperor Smeat]

Decent number considering it avoided the usual tumble downwards following a post-PPV bump and/or something big happening on the side.

Had the 1st hour not been stronger, probably would have been looking at a 1.8 million number for this week since the 3rd hour was a lot worse than last week.

[slik]

NXT: 786,000
AEW: 633,000

[Triple A]

Hmmm

[slik]

Yeah, I wonder what caused the surge for NXT. Congrats to 'em, I like to see both Wednesday shows do well in the viewers department.

Not sure why AEW fluctuates between 100k viewers up and down every other week. No rhyme or reason to it.

[Evil Vito]

in b4 Gertner and Noid post about AEW being in trouble

[slik]

lol

[Bad News Gertner]

Bahahahahaha CRUSHED!

[Bad News Gertner]

Hey AEW, 2014 Impact called. They want their ratings back.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol that's what happens when you put a comedy wrestler in your Main Event

[Bad News Gertner]

Take it from here Noid

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah, I wonder what caused the surge for NXT. Congrats to 'em, I like to see both Wednesday shows do well in the viewers department.

Not sure why AEW fluctuates between 100k viewers up and down every other week. No rhyme or reason to it.

Because it's the same 1.5 million fans watching AEW and NXT. That's what happens when you cater to a niche audience of a niche audience.

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah, I wonder what caused the surge for NXT. Congrats to 'em, I like to see both Wednesday shows do well in the viewers department.

Not sure why AEW fluctuates between 100k viewers up and down every other week. No rhyme or reason to it.

Seems it might have been older viewers because they tipped the scales by a lot since NXT had a 0.42 and AEW hd just a 0.26. That's the only area in the demos where whatever AEW lost, NXT gained that amount.

Whatever caused the decline in key demo viewers, it wasn't because of NXT since they didn't gain them. Probably wasn't even anything AEW related except maybe for the main event since NXT had the hyped up Triple Threat match but that wouldn't have been enough to cause that kind of a shift to happen.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ahahahahahahaha! AHAHAHAHA!

[slik]

Taker Tribute SD episode - 2.174 million

[slik]

Big Show = Death


1.735 million

https://i.postimg.cc/3NdYtg2f/1-point-735.png

[slik]

I expect NXT to beat AEW this week too. WWE's done a good job promoting the Great American Bash and there is a lot of interest in Sasha vs Io

[Bad News Gertner]

I expect WWE Main Event to beat AEW this week as well. Same with Sunday Night Heat, Velocity and Jakked

[Emperor Smeat]

Big Show = Death


1.735 million

https://i.postimg.cc/3NdYtg2f/1-point-735.png

Not surprised since the (big) show did feel pretty boring overall and the spike in interest and curiosity from Prichard running things wasn't going to last long.

Pretty much if you like his handling of Smackdown in recent weeks, then your going to like RAW since its pretty much the same thing. If not, then there really isn't that much of a bright spot for the brand since almost all of the new guys and stuff Heyman was pushing got tossed to the side.

[slik]

Compared to 2 years ago...

https://i.postimg.cc/sDxsRBT9/Screenshot-2020-06-30-at-6-20-10-PM.png

[slik]

18 - 49 down almost 50%

18 - 34 down more than 50%

12 - 34 down more than 50%

25 - 54 down almost 50%

50 + down about 25%

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, Raw did about three times as many viewers as AEW.

[Droford]

I expect NXT to beat AEW this week too. WWE's done a good job promoting the Great American Bash and there is a lot of interest in Sasha vs Io

AEWs big problem is night 2 if Moxley/Cage doesn't happen which is supposed to be taped on thursday.

Night 1 (tonight's card) looks good on paper but night 2 next week without Mox/Cage will be bad

[Mr. Nerfect]

Isn't Mox confirmed for the show? Either way, I think Jericho and Cassidy sinks it.

[Droford]

Isn't Mox confirmed for the show? Either way, I think Jericho and Cassidy sinks it.

What I read was he's tested negative a bunch of times but that doesn't mean anything.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If he’s tested negative, they’ll let him work.

[slik]

I expect NXT to beat AEW this week too. WWE's done a good job promoting the Great American Bash and there is a lot of interest in Sasha vs Io

I was correct


AEW: 748,000
NXT: 792,000


#6 and #13

https://i.postimg.cc/13kn8wjS/Screenshot-2020-07-02-at-3-14-20-PM.png

[Bad News Gertner]

Stardust vs Jack Swagger didn't draw. Who would have thought.

R.I.P AEW. They just just sell the assets at this point.

[Bad News Gertner]

Remember when Chris Jericho said AEW is "the cool place to be". Lol.

[Triple A]

wwe sucks

[xrodmuc316]

"Look how scared WWE, running Great American Bash just so AND WE LOST!" ~ AEW Fanboys

Also "MUH DEMOS, COWBOY SHIT!"

[Bad News Gertner]

"But, but, but what about the DVR numbers? That counts!"

[slik]

AEW finally defeated it's #1 competitor, Guy's Grocery Games in 18-49

Flavortown found deceased


https://i.postimg.cc/13kn8wjS/Screenshot-2020-07-02-at-3-14-20-PM.png

[Emperor Smeat]

Makes sense NXT won again since neither show was going to drop this week with how loaded they were and too much ground for AEW to make up in that case.

AEW getting their usual demo numbers back just opens up more questions on what was it about last week that caused that huge drop to happen since now it doesn't seem to have been anything actually related to AEW or even NXT.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No surprise. I figured AEW would close the gap a little bit out of hardcore fan pity. People would have seen the ratings slaughter last week (a proper one, not a few thousand viewers) and tuned in to help them out. That goodwill is going to fade though. NXT just had to keep putting on less offensive content.

Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy next week and no AEW Title match. I imagine that will hurt the hardcores’ patience with it.

[slik]

Makes sense NXT won again since neither show was going to drop this week with how loaded they were and too much ground for AEW to make up in that case.

AEW getting their usual demo numbers back just opens up more questions on what was it about last week that caused that huge drop to happen since now it doesn't seem to have been anything actually related to AEW or even NXT.

There is never any rhyme or reason to the drops/gains of 100k or so viewers IMO. It never makes sense and is so random.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There is never any rhyme or reason to the drops/gains of 100k or so viewers IMO. It never makes sense and is so random.

It’s not so random. Jericho and Cassidy trailed NXT by 300k viewers last week, haha.

[Emperor Smeat]

Alvarez mentioned recently on the Observer forums that wasn't the actual cause for last week's drop once the segment breakdowns started to come in from Neilsen.

[Emperor Smeat]

There is never any rhyme or reason to the drops/gains of 100k or so viewers IMO. It never makes sense and is so random.

Simple reason is AEW's core is still way more violate than NXT which is why they are more like RAW and NXT is more like SD if you were to put their ratings in a graph form.

NXT's core is pretty much WWE's older audience and it takes a lot more for them to sway hard in either direction. Even if NXT didn't have WWE's older audience doing all the heavy lifting, they'd likely still have smaller waves in the graph than AEW.

Current theory going around for months is AEW audience in general is a lot more susceptible to outside factors which is why whenever something big happens in sports or news, they usually get hit harder since that is where their attention went to for that week.

[Bad News Gertner]

Looking forward to the Chris Jericho vs Santino Marella main event next week

[xrodmuc316]

There is never any rhyme or reason to the drops/gains of 100k or so viewers IMO. It never makes sense and is so random.

Because that 100,000 represents probably 20 nerds with a Nelson box.


OMG Jericho again going full MUH DEMOS!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a lesson about television ratings kids. Last night <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWrestling?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AEWrestling</a> was NUMBER 6 in the 18-49 demo. To tv networks &amp; advertisers it’s the ONLY number that matters and we were up 31% in that area! So once again <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> is the REAL winner in the Wed night ratings war! <a href="https://t.co/JzZU5X779t">pic.twitter.com/JzZU5X779t</a></p>&mdash; Chris Jericho (@IAmJericho) <a href="https://twitter.com/IAmJericho/status/1278800960618364931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What a joke Mark

[Mr. Nerfect]

Alvarez mentioned recently on the Observer forums that wasn't the actual cause for last week's drop once the segment breakdowns started to come in from Neilsen.

Of course he'll say that. You make your parody of your genre the focus, you're going to become a parody of yourself. That is common sense. Meltzer and Alvarez aren't on the take, but they've got their reputations hinging on these guys knowing what the fuck they are doing, since this is basically "How to do wrestling with lessons learnt from the Observer and The Death of WCW."

[Mr. Nerfect]

The superior (using that word loosely) wrestling product is winning.

[slik]

Love Jericho's passion, truly unmatched what a gift he has been to AEW and wrestling.

[xrodmuc316]

Love Jericho's passion, truly unmatched what a gift he has been to AEW and wrestling.

At what point does passion become shilling?

Him going full demos sounds pretty much exactly like most of the shills on Reddit.

[Triple A]

Weren't you and Noid talking about how ratings are fake and don't mean anything when AEW was winning for like 95% of the other weeks

[xrodmuc316]

Weren't you and Noid talking about how ratings are fake and don't mean anything when AEW was winning for like 95% of the other weeks

Yeah, just like I did five posts ago...

Seriously though, I never said they were fake. Just an insignificant metric because such a limited sample size simply cannot represent accurate data.

AND I was making fun of people getting hyped over 100,000 and Especially 20,000 in a specific demo, like Jericho did.

[BigCrippyZ]

Weren't you and Noid talking about how ratings are fake and don't mean anything when AEW was winning for like 95% of the other weeks

Yes, yes they were, primarily because they know absolutely jack shit about how actual ratings are calculated or what they mean to broadcasters or advertisers.

In fact, Jericho is 100% correct.

50+ viewers (and shows who have majority viewers who are majority 50+) are basically meaningless for advertisers because a huge % of them don't spend for shit, especially based on or because of advertising. After 18-49, 12-18 is the next best target demographic, but they have significantly less spending power and influence, and most of their actual spending power comes from their parents in 18-49 group.

That's why unless you have a HUGE number of 50+ viewers, even if you have more total viewers, you're going to rank significantly worse than the programs who may have less total viewers but a large % of them are age 18-49. That's why AEW beat WWE, and also why MTV, etc., beats Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc.

[xrodmuc316]

Yes, yes they were, primarily because they know absolutely jack shit about how actual ratings are calculated or what they mean to broadcasters or advertisers.

In fact, Jericho is 100% correct.

50+ viewers (and shows who have majority viewers who are majority 50+) are basically meaningless for advertisers because a huge % of them don't spend for shit, especially based on or because of advertising. After 18-49, 12-18 is the next best target demographic, but they have significantly less spending power and influence, and most of their actual spending power comes from their parents in 18-49 group.

That's why unless you have a HUGE number of 50+ viewers, even if you have more total viewers, you're going to rank significantly worse than the programs who may have less total viewers but a large % of them are age 18-49. That's why AEW beat WWE, and also why MTV, etc., beats Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc.

Actually, I know exactly how advertisers and tv execs view the numbers. In fact my argument has always been that it is a very archaic way of looking at it.

Nielsen's own estimates puts there being 120+ million households with tvs, representing 307+ million television watchers.

So out of 120+ million households, Nielsen uses roughly 40,000 Nelson boxes to obtain data, then apply their formula from 40,000 boxes to forecast what 307+ million people are watching, based on the average ages of people living in those 40,000 households.

If you use that, you are saying 1 box represents what 2999 other households are watching, or 0.0003% sample size.

The number of total viewers per household is a bit over 2.5 people, for 100,000 total viewers which would mean their estimates are based on 0.0008%, a bit better, but still not even a half of a half of 1%.

The 70,000 difference in viewers in the 18-49 age range stems from a difference of 21 boxes in households that have somebody that age.

Advertisers and TV execs and anybody else putting any substance whatsoever in what these numbers represent, the difference in viewing habits of 21 people, well like I said, tv ratings in 2020 mean jack shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Weren't you and Noid talking about how ratings are fake and don't mean anything when AEW was winning for like 95% of the other weeks

The ratings aren't fake, but they aren't exactly reliable. Nielsen themselves cite a 10% margin of error on them. It's why AEW fanboys getting super-psyched by an alleged 7k win is fucking ridiculous. The only people who take the numbers that literally are AEW fans and Dave Meltzer.

Insert the Mitch Hedberg joke about 1 million people auditioning for American Idol. What an oddly specific number. You'd think it would be 1 million and 2 or something.

Yeah, just like I did five posts ago...

Seriously though, I never said they were fake. Just an insignificant metric because such a limited sample size simply cannot represent accurate data.

AND I was making fun of people getting hyped over 100,000 and Especially 20,000 in a specific demo, like Jericho did.

Yep, exactly this. NXT's "win" this week wasn't by any definitive margin. But it is nice cosmic justice to see the "technicalities' swap side to favor the better overall product.

Yes, yes they were, primarily because they know absolutely jack shit about how actual ratings are calculated or what they mean to broadcasters or advertisers.

In fact, Jericho is 100% correct.

50+ viewers (and shows who have majority viewers who are majority 50+) are basically meaningless for advertisers because a huge % of them don't spend for shit, especially based on or because of advertising. After 18-49, 12-18 is the next best target demographic, but they have significantly less spending power and influence, and most of their actual spending power comes from their parents in 18-49 group.

That's why unless you have a HUGE number of 50+ viewers, even if you have more total viewers, you're going to rank significantly worse than the programs who may have less total viewers but a large % of them are age 18-49. That's why AEW beat WWE, and also why MTV, etc., beats Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc.

Haha, you're just sore because all the criticisms about AEW are completely true.

Advertisers do care about older demos, you fucking git. 18-49 meant something once, but now advertisers have access to and are way more interested in more diverse information. In addition to that, the economic structure of demographics have surely shifted, as has the average age of the person who still has fucking cable. Never mind that younger people can be watching at people's houses that factor into other demos, and those demos can buy for other demos. Fuck's sake, man -- take Meltzer's dick out of your mouth. ;)

A lot of advertisers have moved to different mediums too, because appealing to 200,000 white 45 year olds on basic cable may not be the best way to really get your product out there these days.

Actually, I know exactly how advertisers and tv execs view the numbers. In fact my argument has always been that it is a very archaic way of looking at it.

Nielsen's own estimates puts there being 120+ million households with tvs, representing 307+ million television watchers.

So out of 120+ million households, Nielsen uses roughly 40,000 Nelson boxes to obtain data, then apply their formula from 40,000 boxes to forecast what 307+ million people are watching, based on the average ages of people living in those 40,000 households.

If you use that, you are saying 1 box represents what 2999 other households are watching, or 0.0003% sample size.

The number of total viewers per household is a bit over 2.5 people, for 100,000 total viewers which would mean their estimates are based on 0.0008%, a bit better, but still not even a half of a half of 1%.

The 70,000 difference in viewers in the 18-49 age range stems from a difference of 21 boxes in households that have somebody that age.

Advertisers and TV execs and anybody else putting any substance whatsoever in what these numbers represent, the difference in viewing habits of 21 people, well like I said, tv ratings in 2020 mean jack shit.

Boom.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Turns out it's a marathon, not a sprint.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m sure they can change things around in editing, but the match order for AEW next week sounds HORRIBLE. They’ve basically set it up to lose viewers all throughout the show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

By the way, Q7 and Q8 of last week's show lost ~70k viewers overall, and Jericho and OC ended on ~548k viewers to NXT's 852k, which is even worse than they were initially suspected to have done. So much for "Nah, not them." Yah, yes them.

[slik]

Other than the week SD was on FS1 this has to be their worst rating since going to FOX

Probably safe to blame the 4th of July


https://i.postimg.cc/5tvP6qzC/Fast-Demo-2020-Jul-03-FRI.png

[slik]

SD - 1.776 million
RAW - 1.735 million
NXT - 792k
AEW - 748k

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow. Last place.

R.I.P AEW

[Emperor Smeat]

Other than the week SD was on FS1 this has to be their worst rating since going to FOX

Probably safe to blame the 4th of July


https://i.postimg.cc/5tvP6qzC/Fast-Demo-2020-Jul-03-FRI.png

Maybe but more likely people just lost interest again in SD since its been mostly meaningless for a while now. Even last week's show didn't really do much to build real interest for this week's show.

Only ABC really suffered as bad this week while CBS and NBC improved. The latter wouldn't have been the case if it was holiday related.

If it wasn't for the heavy promoted Taker tribute stuff, last week's show probably would have been around 1.9 to 1.8 and making this week's drop a lot less severe.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, tied for second best in the demo on 4th July weekend. “They did their worst number ever! They don’t mean anything!” When AEW falls out the bottom by >300k to their nearest competition, it’s because of outside factors, the news or some other mystery and Jericho has “passion” for shitting all over every demo they specifically lost in. :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Can’t wait for Alvarez to speculate that everyone’s remote was broken last week, and they got automatically switched over to NXT and couldn’t change back.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bryan Alvarez is a fucking saint!

[Emperor Smeat]

Considering most of the programming on the networks was re-runs, SD only managing to tie for 2nd place and having those abysmal numbers is something not worth gloating over these days.

Even worse considering the recent news of FOX gutting a bunch of their sports programming due to high costs and poor ratings.

[#1-norm-fan]

This battle between Smackdown and re-runs of Shark Tank and World of Dance is HOT!

[Emperor Smeat]

If WWE wants to hit the target numbers FOX is expecting, a World of Dance x WWE crossover involving Fandango would do that trick.

Just need to pluck him away from NXT first regardless of any fit Triple H might throw over losing any star power there.

[Seanny One Ball]

Get Vince back on commentary if you want ratings

[#1-norm-fan]

BOOM SHAKALAKA!

[xrodmuc316]

Get Vince back on commentary if you want ratings

I'm not even kidding, angry senile old man Vince on commentary would be incredible.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, forgot to leave out the virus as an excuse for AEW whenever they tank. And they’re certainly doing well against such dynamic programming like the news and Guy Fieri.

Wrestling is in a hole. But it’s not just SmackDown that is shit. AEW is the drizzles. Jericho vs. David Arquette next week. At least SmackDown does have Daniel Bryan, Nakamura, Cesaro, Gulak, Styles, Morrison and Riddle doing way better shit than anything you see on Dynamite. It’s the best “main roster” show out there. And that’s not even praise. It should be properly good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haha, I call Orange Cassidy David Arquette based on the lack of credibility and their general presence, but it turns out that they actually do have the exact same height and weight according to Google (5’10, 161lbs).

[Emperor Smeat]

So you actually watch Smackdown weekly?

Not via online, clips, or abridged version but in its entirely each and every week because if so, that being the best main roster show is the biggest load of horse shirt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, that doesn’t make any sense. Stick to lifting your arguments from Dave Meltzer. You get lost when you have to come up with shit on your own.

I don’t watch Dynamite regularly and I don’t watch SmackDown regularly. I can still judge which is more successful and which product is better when I do watch. SmackDown breaks the reality of itself too, but at least not in main event segments. The highs are higher and the lows aren’t as low.

[Emperor Smeat]

So no then.

Any show will look better when you cherry pick things to fit your view or criteria.

Comparing just RAW and SD, only real advantage SD has had over RAW is it being an hour shorter. Quality-wise, its been just as bad and at times even worse than RAW has been in general. At least RAW was more willing to experiment with new people even if it ended up being very hit-or-miss which is more than what can be said of SD's efforts under Prichard.

[Triple A]

SmackDown seems absolutely abysmal and unwatchable based on results for like the past several months...

[Emperor Smeat]

Been like that almost since the switch to FOX.

Debut show was loaded but did a terrible job giving a good reason to watch the actual regular weekly stuff.

At least when SD moved to USA Network and later became a live show, WWE actually bothered putting in some real effort to improve the show's quality for months before slowly going back to their old ways.

With FOX, they basically scammed the network into giving them a huge sum of money for a show they never had any real intentions of improving. Even worse is they managed to double scam FOX in terms of not giving them the big stars they wanted and getting even more programming that also had no real effort put into it.

[xrodmuc316]

LOL you all are too much. Smackdown is abysmal but a C level tag team showing up in a minivan is great television?

[Bad News Gertner]

Funny don't draw money

[Mr. Nerfect]

So no then.

Any show will look better when you cherry pick things to fit your view or criteria.

Comparing just RAW and SD, only real advantage SD has had over RAW is it being an hour shorter. Quality-wise, its been just as bad and at times even worse than RAW has been in general. At least RAW was more willing to experiment with new people even if it ended up being very hit-or-miss which is more than what can be said of SD's efforts under Prichard.

Gotcha! You don’t fit my arbitrary paradigm therefore I win! Bullshit. Dynamite is borderline unwatchable. SmackDown is largely turgid, but I can get through a Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak match. Nothing on AEW is that good. Nothing.

The Raw guys are all bums, sadly. I like what I’ve seen of Angel Garza. Everyone else is pretty shit, unless I’m missing someone obvious.

Been like that almost since the switch to FOX.

Debut show was loaded but did a terrible job giving a good reason to watch the actual regular weekly stuff.

At least when SD moved to USA Network and later became a live show, WWE actually bothered putting in some real effort to improve the show's quality for months before slowly going back to their old ways.

With FOX, they basically scammed the network into giving them a huge sum of money for a show they never had any real intentions of improving. Even worse is they managed to double scam FOX in terms of not giving them the big stars they wanted and getting even more programming that also had no real effort put into it.

Yes, Vince McMahon scammed FOX. Because in five years he’s going to want FOX feeling cheated by him when he asks for more money. What sort of take is this, BigCrippyZ?

FOX knows what they paid for. Vince McMahon’s WWE on their network. I’m willing to bet they don’t even know who most of the wrestlers are. But yes, they are very mad they didn’t get Andrade. Grr, that Vincent Kennedy McMahon swindled us again!

SmackDown succeeds at what it wants to be. That it doesn’t appeal to people who lose their shit at Trent showing up in his mom’s car or Orange Cassidy comedically punching Chris Jericho through a table is probably not a bad thing.

AEW scammed everyone by saying they were going to change the world and offer a sports-based presentation. That one is actually true.

LOL you all are too much. Smackdown is abysmal but a C level tag team showing up in a minivan is great television?

Absolutely! WWE doesn’t mean anything anymore. AEW creates new stars like Chuck Taylor and The Dark Order. So good to see talent being used to their fullest potential.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wasn't just Andrade that FOX wanted since they also wanted Brock Lesnar (barely for a month), Ronda Rousey, Becky Lynch and/or Charlotte (only had Charlotte for a week), and Rey for their core of top stars. Only star they managed to actually get from their list was Reigns.

Also didn't get the sports-like presentation WWE promised for SD nor the sports-like talk show format promised for WWE Backstage.

Problem with AEW's sports-like promise was people thinking that meant it was going to be just like NJPW when that quickly ended up not being the case. They have added some sports-like stuff with post show press conferences for events and the rankings and records system even if those could use a bit more tweaking. Plus once Taz joined, they started doing breakdowns of moves/spots just like what you'd see in a sports game or sports news show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wasn't just Andrade that FOX wanted since they also wanted Brock Lesnar (barely for a month), Ronda Rousey, Becky Lynch and/or Charlotte (only had Charlotte for a week), and Rey for their core of top stars. Only star they managed to actually get from their list was Reigns.

Also didn't get the sports-like presentation WWE promised for SD nor the sports-like talk show format promised for WWE Backstage.

Problem with AEW's sports-like promise was people thinking that meant it was going to be just like NJPW when that quickly ended up not being the case. They have added some sports-like stuff with post show press conferences for events and the rankings and records system even if those could use a bit more tweaking. Plus once Taz joined, they started doing breakdowns of moves/spots just like what you'd see in a sports game or sports news show.

Yep, sure, FOX asked for those names specifically and Vince said "Nah, you can't have them." And WWE definitely would produce a show for Fox Sports to air that Fox Sports didn't want.

The problem with AEW promising a sports-based presentation is that they put on bullshit.

[DrA]

FOX paid over a billion dollars for WWE Smackdown under the assumption that Andrade was going to be on the show, so I think the least Vince could do is to give them what they paid for.

[Emperor Smeat]

FOX paid over a billion dollars for WWE Smackdown under the assumption that Andrade was going to on the show, so I think the least Vince could do is to give them what they paid for.

Andrade wasn't even their first choice for Hispanic star to cater to their Hispanic market.

They wanted Rey first and even had him appear in ads leading up to the debut on FOX but WWE decided against it in the end. Then they asked for Andrade as a replacement and didn't get him either.

The key to that whole mess was USA Network actually paid more for RAW than FOX did for SD so WWE had to make sure USA wasn't left unhappy by all of FOX's talent requests but ended up swinging too hard in favor of USA.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Man, FOX must sure be unhappy right now.

[xrodmuc316]

Man, FOX must sure be unhappy right now.

This is exactly what Fox wanted to be going forward after selling most of their assets to Disney.

They wanted live sports television. I am not saying it's a great strategy, but it is their business plan.

Let's also not forget the big cross promotion Fox was going to do with Smackdown, but with no other sporting events happening, one could argue that Fox itself is partially responsible for lower ratings due to the inability to cross promote the show as planned.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Imagine paying $2 billion for a show, only for them to stab you in the back by preventing access to talent you asked for. You would just be fuming. But what can you do?

[Droford]

just gonna shove roman reigns down everyone's throat 3x as hard if he ever comes back

[Droford]

So you actually watch Smackdown weekly?

Not via online, clips, or abridged version but in its entirely each and every week because if so, that being the best main roster show is the biggest load of horse shirt.

to be honest I've gotten to recording it and watching it later so I can ff through commercials.

I already do it for nxt and AEW. Don't know why i haven't started fir RAW yet. Probably just habit

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid has gone full CyNick.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He did that a while ago

[Emperor Smeat]

to be honest I've gotten to recording it and watching it later so I can ff through commercials.

I already do it for nxt and AEW. Don't know why i haven't started fir RAW yet. Probably just habit

Watching it via a replay is completely fine since its not like a Hulu version where they cut out actual stuff so you don't get the whole show.

I pretty much do that for NXT since no commercials or WWE ads brings it down to around an 80-90 minute show instead of 2 hours. Still get all the actual stuff that happened without the added fluff from a live broadcast.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't remember if I've said this in this thread or not, but over here there are ordered shows that are one hour versions of both Raw and SmackDown. The funny things about that are that there is obviously demand for way more succinct WWE programming, but there is also demand for it. People have to edit and export those shows. That's the future of WWE programming.

When cable dries up even more, they are going to be valuable to streaming services. And cable will probably cut down on the ordered hours of programming before they outright cancel WWE. WWE have those hour versions produced, so should the bubble start to shrink, they can put on those hour shows and put on full length broadcasting on the WWE Network for those who eat it up. But they're obviously going to try and get their full shows over as much as possible.

The "sky is falling" mentality for WWE, even if you hate that company, is probably never going to amount to anything other than billions of dollars for WWE. Whereas the shrugging and excuses making for AEW is probably going to cost them a lot more a lot sooner.

[slik]

Easy E is correct


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eric Bischoff on TV ratings in relation to talent in AEW &amp; WWE being truly &quot;over.&quot; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/83Weeks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#83Weeks</a> <a href="https://t.co/dZnQxq78L7">pic.twitter.com/dZnQxq78L7</a></p>&mdash; Meltzer Said What? (@MeltzerSaidWhat) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeltzerSaidWhat/status/1280302769518317574?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Eric Bischoff is very rarely, if ever, correct.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He's right about AEW losing about half their live viewers and the show not holding people and being worth shit. He's wrong that COVID ratings should just be thrown out. Keeping people somewhat engaged through this period is important. Audiences aren't just guaranteed to come back and give a shit about something they stopped giving a shit about again. And when you completely ass it like AEW, you're going to make such a bad impression that you'll end up doing real damage to yourself.

[#1-norm-fan]

He’s also right about no one being a draw anymore.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The only way people affect ratings these days is if they’re a big fish in a small pond (Jericho getting, maybe, 100k viewers for AEW), or if a big star stops the bottom falling out (Cena, Brock and Reigns seem good at that — and Hogan and Flair in fucking 2019/2020 whatever). And The Rock when he shows up.

They still exist. Wrestling just doesn’t have ‘em.

[#1-norm-fan]

Right. That’s what I meant. WWE can’t build stars anymore. And because of that, wrestling doesn’t matter anymore.

[xrodmuc316]

Right. That’s what I meant. WWE can’t build stars anymore. And because of that, wrestling doesn’t matter anymore.

That is 100% by design, so much so that anybody even approaching getting breaking out unplanned is squashed down, giving up all the money they could draw.

If Austin 3:16 happened today, starting tomorrow Vince would book him to say stupid things, randomly lose matches to lucha house party, then stick him in months long never ending fueds with Dolph Ziggler and Baron Corbin. Then randomly team him up Apollo Crews.

[slik]

RAW ratings delayed to Wednesday morning

[Mr. Nerfect]

I do think they were trying with Drew, what with the XFL launching, TV rights kicking in and contracts being longer. The virus has thrown that into the air. But yeah, no one has really done well in creating a star in a long, long time.

[slik]

1.687 million

I believe that's the lowest viewership in RAW history


https://i.postimg.cc/8PJ2PkBK/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-06-MON.png

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Wrestling is dead in the fucking water and Vince killed it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They’re almost slipping to AEW-level demo placement too. Time to cut that shit to two hours and ship everyone over 40 to a new show on USA Tuesdays.

[Big Vic]

WWE Legends House 2

[Emperor Smeat]

Bit of a shame since this week's RAW was actually pretty good for the most part. It still had its share of issues but the start and end were very good.

Prichard being just as ineffective as Heyman pretty much proves the only reason the huge bump happened with him was more due to curiosity of him taking over than anything actually show related. Same type of issue that has been plaguing RAW and WWE in general for years.

[slik]

715 (AEW) and 759 (NXT)

add em up and they are only 214k away from RAW on Monday, Wednesday truly the A night for wrestling fans, add up the 18-49 demo and it tops RAW


https://i.postimg.cc/YqzWKN4t/AEW.png

[Bad News Gertner]

Hahahahaha NXT wins again!

Just shut down AEW. It's over.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If anyone thinks I consider being a top 7 show on cable anything but a huge win, they’re incorrect. A win in the demo is a win in the business, and this is a business. I know the industry wasn’t talking about the demo as much 20 years ago, but it’s what drives our revenue today.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281324955725107200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol way to spin your company dropping like a stone.

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, is AEW the number 6 or 7 promotion now?

[slik]

I love Tony's passion and how available he makes himself to fans on Twitter!

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol he's such a sensitive puss

[Bad News Gertner]

"Well you know it's all about demos".

Lol fuck off. Your viewership has been cut in half and you're losing every week now to WWE developmental.

[slik]

WWE's viewership has been cut in half too tho, it's an all around thing and it's a big positive

The fanbase is finally shrinking to manageable number, now we just need to get less wrestling on TV so it's less of a time commitment for fans!

[Bad News Gertner]

Well AEW is going to be cancelled at the rate they are going. Probably gonna get absorbed by Impact.

[Evil Vito]

NXT wins the popular vote, AEW wins the electoral college

[Emperor Smeat]

That huge gap NXT has with older viewers pretty much has been the only reason they won total viewers these past 2-3 weeks. Pretty much wipes away whatever advantage AEW has elsewhere with demos.

Also kind of crazy how the one WWE show that's supposed to be catered towards younger fans has pretty much been the opposite almost from the start with some exceptions.

[Bad News Gertner]

The WWE thinks it's catering to young fans with NXT, but really the no bullshit style does cater to an older crowd. I would be interested to see how much of the audience used to watch the old territories (including pre Hogan WWF)

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah, its also why WWE might be looking at another Cena-like disaster within a couple years in the sense of not properly building up their next core of young TV viewers with NXT.

At some point that reliable old WWE audience is going to crack and all three of WWE's brands are going to suffer even worse than now.

Similar thing happened back in the mid-90s where WWE was only being kept afloat by their older viewers and were only saved by WCW taking off big time which lead to the Attitude Era and their new core of young viewers forming. NXT's already proven in the past that they can't form that new young core on their own nor be that much of a factor in improving WWE's main shows.

[slik]

This is my all-time favorite Tony Khan meltdown tweet


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Never. I’ll die at this club. Go to hell.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1084150167878729729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Tony needs to step away from Twitter, this is unprofessional


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why tweet about ratings? Because I’m thrilled about these numbers &amp; so are TNT. My family drinks A Little Bit of the Bubbly (Chris’s actual brand) on Thursdays when we’re in the top 10, this is the 3rd time in 4 weeks, &amp; I’m grateful for the great <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> fans that make it possible!</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281336699063349248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My favorite thing about some of the frequent repliers to my tweets is how the 18-49 demographic is these people’s best friend on Mondays and Fridays, and then they act like they never heard of it on Wednesdays.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281343196107350016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Bad News Gertner]

lol jesus christ

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that you have wrestling personalities like Tony Khan inflating their own egos regarding ratings and demos is laughable. Here’s the truth: these companies fight for a considerably smaller piece of the pie than they were decades ago. Sensible fans don’t care, move on.</p>&mdash; Robbie S. (@KHsNotebook) <a href="https://twitter.com/KHsNotebook/status/1281361683714375681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Is it weird if even though I prefer AEW to WWE I kind of want AEW to lose next week now bc Tony was so whiny about it on Twitter?

[Bad News Gertner]

It's so off-putting

[slik]

Tony is at it again...


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">While we don’t charge ppv $ for the show, I hugely appreciate the investment of time anyone makes when they watch <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> or any AEW content, &amp; that’s why it’s important to me that you know that if you invested your time watching Fyter Fest, thank you for helping us succeed!</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281384554088062981?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Shad just needs to take the phone away and tell Tony no more White Claw and Taco Bell until he displays a better attitude.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, I’m obsessed with winning the demo, but our relative performance in the demo vs. all programming is the most important thing. It’s like, you want to pass for more yards than the opposing QB, it’s fun &amp; an easy thing to track, but winning the game is what matters most by far.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281364832080601088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Unless they turn him into a whiny annoying heel on tv, he's wasting his time

[Damian Rey 2.0]

That's also really pathetic. I get being proud of something you as yours, but Jesus.

[Emperor Smeat]

That's also really pathetic. I get being proud of something you as yours, but Jesus.

Yeah. Also doesn't help he can be easily baited online leaving himself wide open to ridicule and these type of dumb and avoidable situations.

Closest to him in WWE might be Road Dogg since he'd constantly get into online arguments over some of the smallest and dumbest stuff possible, especially during his time as the lead writer of Smackdown.

[Emperor Smeat]

At least on the bright side, TPWW got a quick shout out during Tony's rambling on Twitter today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was a <a href="https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX">https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX</a> boards guy myself</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390202674700289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy shit TIL that site still exists</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390291002458112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Fignuts]

Embarrassing.

[RP]

He could just not give a shit at all.

[slik]

At least on the bright side, TPWW got a quick shout out during Tony's rambling on Twitter today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was a <a href="https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX">https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX</a> boards guy myself</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390202674700289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy shit TIL that site still exists</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390291002458112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

An emotional and powerful #branding moment for tpww!

[Damian Rey 2.0]

*looks around*

*sigh* nobody knows we're here.

[Fignuts]

Who the fuck is scubasteve?

da_king?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hahahaha! Tony Khan clearly hurt as fuck by the viewership. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't be melting down so hard. He's starting to work out how hard it is to run a wrestling promotion when the boys are constantly trying to get their shit in and he should say no, but doesn't have the balls.

I seriously doubt the industry uses Showbuzz lists to decide where to invest money, and I seriously doubt the cable television is the most effective way to reach the 18-49 demographic you've got a tiny slice of in 2020.

Also, the internet only cares about that demo when it comes to AEW. They talk shit about Raw and SmackDown's viewership constantly because it's no fun to talk about how they are usually #1 or #2 in the demo.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hahahaha! Tony Khan clearly hurt as fuck by the viewership. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't be melting down so hard.

Noid stating the obvious like it's a new revelation.

[Evil Vito]

Khan brought this on himself by boasting about more viewers before the pandemic.

The reality is that winning the demo was always the most important thing to networks anyway, but it's not hard to see why bringing up the demo now makes it look like he's getting defensive and moving the goalposts. It doesn't matter if what he's saying is true, he looks butthurt.

He should've never brought up ratings in the first place no matter how proud of them he is. I don't care to see CEOs boast about ratings. That's Trump shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haha, I didn't even know he boasted about viewers. Rep for anyone who finds that tweet.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Scuttlebutt has Jericho/OC getting 675k to Cole/Lee getting 995k.

[Bad News Gertner]

Funny don't draw money

[Bad News Gertner]

Oh and about those "demos" that Khan holds near and dear.


1 show advertised Mountain Dew, Little Ceasers, State Farm, m&m, Lexus, papa johns, T-mobile, Thrivent, Hershey, Iams, stamps.com, Good Rx, Terminex the first 30 min. The other Cracker Barrel, Sensodyne, Taco Bell, Mirror, Warby, Geico. Any guesses which is which.



He can crow about his demos all he wants, NXT is THUMPING AEW in terms of quality sponsors.

[xrodmuc316]

This is exactly what I meant when I said I want AEW to fail. Not because I don't want more wrestling, but because I get far more enjoyment out of these meltdowns from these pretentious assholes who crow about how great AEW is, but then meltdown anytime somebody doesn't buy into their cult brainwashing.

The fact that this time it was the petulant manchild of a billionaire who calls himself the owner, well that makes it all the more sweeter.

[Big Vic]

Who the fuck is scubasteve?

da_king?

Happy we were finally able to find da_king

[Bad News Gertner]

At least on the bright side, TPWW got a quick shout out during Tony's rambling on Twitter today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was a <a href="https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX">https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX</a> boards guy myself</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390202674700289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy shit TIL that site still exists</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390291002458112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I want to join Twitter just to find out which poster this is

[Mr. Nerfect]

Can't wait to see Jericho and Tony's meltdowns when NXT beats them in the demos. They've invited this.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sup dude, I still post at TPWW. Have been a member since 2001. What was your user handle?</p>&mdash; The Daley News (@DaleNewstead) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaleNewstead/status/1281732054653313030?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I eagerly await his reply.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sup dude, I still post at TPWW. Have been a member since 2001. What was your user handle?</p>&mdash; The Daley News (@DaleNewstead) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaleNewstead/status/1281732054653313030?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I eagerly await his reply.

LOL you actually asked him, classic!

[Emperor Smeat]

Ouch at the numbers for Miz's new game show on USA Network.

Not as dire as the drop WWE Backstage did from its special preview episodes to official debut but neither was it a good number for an official debut episode although to be fair a bit, the preview show was on NBC.

The 7/9 debut episode of Cannonball, the new aqua-competition comedy series hosted by the Miz on the USA Network garnered 770,000 overnight viewers and brought a .20 rating in the 18-34 demographic.

The NBC preview of the series on 6/29 brought in 2,748,000 overnight viewers, so the official debut was way below the preview audience.

For some perspective, WWE Backstage did 597k and 426k for its preview episodes and a measly 49k for its actual debut episode.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Holy shit, it outdrew AEW, hahahaha.

[Emperor Smeat]

:eek: a non-wrestling show managed to beat a wrestling show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Remember when wrestling used to do really well? How we've fully embraced "wrestling is shit and anything else is better."

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The thread title should be "Mr. Nerfect has a meltdown on TPWW."

[Volare]

ROFL!!

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol I don't think he's about to have a meltdown with that revelation

[slik]

Curious to see if SD has a drop like RAW and stays under 2 million, I wouldn't be surprised

[Mr. Nerfect]

Prediction: No one talks about the demos.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NXT gave away their biggest possible match yet AEW *expanded* their demo lead from the week before. That's the story. It's crazy how people miss this by focusing on the surface level &amp; mostly meaningless total viewer counts. NXT has given away huge matches to crawl into the .2's</p>&mdash; Voices of Wrestling (@voiceswrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1281671914583461897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think it really matters what NXT gets in the ratings or what matches it gives away. Its very presence detracts from viewers from AEW.

[Bad News Gertner]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NXT gave away their biggest possible match yet AEW *expanded* their demo lead from the week before. That's the story. It's crazy how people miss this by focusing on the surface level &amp; mostly meaningless total viewer counts. NXT has given away huge matches to crawl into the .2's</p>&mdash; Voices of Wrestling (@voiceswrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1281671914583461897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If the demos mattered that much AEW would have better advertisers on their show

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Dick pills are highly viable Gertner. Fuck off.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Are advertisers really going out of their way to buy ad space to cater to a bunch of 48 year old white dudes who still have cable? That seems extremely archaic. NXT would surely have a more diverse audience, and they’re also plugged in all around the world. And why the fuck wouldn’t viewers matter? Old people don’t buy shit? Especially if they’re lonely wrestling fans that like jacking it to the Women’s Division? That’s some bullshit.

[slik]

1.904 million

Tough situation for FOX, a few green spots below but at billion dollars over five years is probably looking like a poor financial investment!


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Fast-Demo-2020-Jul-10-FRI.png

[slik]

Here's how the top 4 did this week:

SD - 1.904 million
RAW - 1.687 million
AEW - 715k
NXT - 759k

[Jordan]

Isn't it quite obvious that it's not just WWE that is falling greatly but ratings in general are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago. Am I totally off base here? Obviously if you look at WWE you see a decline pretty much since The Invasion angle, but couldn't the same be said about TV ratings in general?

[slik]

15.6 million watched the NFL draft earlier this year

102 million watched the Super Bowl

so it depends on the show/event

[BigCrippyZ]

Are advertisers really going out of their way to buy ad space to cater to a bunch of 48 year old white dudes who still have cable? That seems extremely archaic. NXT would surely have a more diverse audience, and they’re also plugged in all around the world. And why the fuck wouldn’t viewers matter? Old people don’t buy shit? Especially if they’re lonely wrestling fans that like jacking it to the Women’s Division? That’s some bullshit.

No, they're buying ad space to get their products in front of the millions of 18-49 year olds that live in the 80+ million households in the U.S. who have cable or satellite. Pretty sure advertisers have much better data and insight on their potential consumers in the U.S. and the most cost effective ways to reach them.

Most advertisers don't care about demographic diversity, they want to advertise to people who can and will buy their products right now. Data consistently shows that the ideal U.S. consumer to most advertisers is a white person between the ages 18 and 49.

It's not rocket science, you just have to choose to not be such an idiot who refuses to learn or understand it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Isn't it quite obvious that it's not just WWE that is falling greatly but ratings in general are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago. Am I totally off base here? Obviously if you look at WWE you see a decline pretty much since The Invasion angle, but couldn't the same be said about TV ratings in general?

Yes in general but for sports its more of a mixed bag. Like the NFL last season went up in ratings and I think they've been up ever since the post-Kaepernick kneeling controversy.

When WWE was pushing for new tv deals, they were selling themselves hard as being equivalent to sports in terms of being DVR proof and as a reliable live content provider. FOX bit big on that sales pitch which is why they started talking about using their sports properties to help promote Smackdown.

WWE not having an offseason unlike sports is actually hurting them more than helping since they don't get any real chance to rest and recharge their creative batteries.

[Mr. Nerfect]

1.904 million

Tough situation for FOX, a few green spots below but at billion dollars over five years is probably looking like a poor financial investment!


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Fast-Demo-2020-Jul-10-FRI.png

#1 in the demo in their time slot. Funny how no one talks about it, yet Tony Khan says that is all the rage except on Wednesdays.

No, they're buying ad space to get their products in front of the millions of 18-49 year olds that live in the 80+ million households in the U.S. who have cable or satellite. Pretty sure advertisers have much better data and insight on their potential consumers in the U.S. and the most cost effective ways to reach them.

Most advertisers don't care about demographic diversity, they want to advertise to people who can and will buy their products right now. Data consistently shows that the ideal U.S. consumer to most advertisers is a white person between the ages 18 and 49.

It's not rocket science, you just have to choose to not be such an idiot who refuses to learn or understand it.

They're not getting millions of people watching AEW, period. Cut your shit. You've gone full delusional. They were averaging about 350k people in that demo on Wednesday. They're selling slots to Sensodyne, because the average age of the AEW fan is 45 and they've probably done further research to discover that they're not the most trendy specimens on Planet Earth. That's what their insight gives them.

And yes, I'm sure advertisers do get way more than Showbuzz charts. That's my fucking point, you zealot. That's why the whining from Jericho and Khan is so fucking hilarious. That's why I criticize people who take the numbers so literally, because they don't imply how those demos are further broken down and whether or not advertisers see value in them, whether due to stigma or market research.

Advertisers care about a lot of things. They care about making money RIGHT NOW (which might be why they'd choose the product with the larger global reach and more diverse audience from the start), but they also care about the growth and perception of their products, not only in the immediate sense, but also over time. Do you want to see your average AEW fan wearing your clothing label? Some businesses might say yes, and others might say no.

Maybe it's just because I'm an idiot, but me no able to think of ads aimed at different races. Me no understand telebision. All matter is 45 year old white men. Me need learn how to read Showbuzz chart. Showbuzz chart teach POWER LEVEL!

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Yes in general but for sports its more of a mixed bag. Like the NFL last season went up in ratings and I think they've been up ever since the post-Kaepernick kneeling controversy.

When WWE was pushing for new tv deals, they were selling themselves hard as being equivalent to sports in terms of being DVR proof and as a reliable live content provider. FOX bit big on that sales pitch which is why they started talking about using their sports properties to help promote Smackdown.

WWE not having an offseason unlike sports is actually hurting them more than helping since they don't get any real chance to rest and recharge their creative batteries.

Always felt like giving guys time off tv after a big angle or long run would them good creatively to reset. Still work them at house shows but let the people miss them for a bit. Obviously a bad time for that right now.

[BigCrippyZ]

They're not getting millions of people watching AEW, period. Cut your shit. You've gone full delusional. They were averaging about 350k people in that demo on Wednesday. They're selling slots to Sensodyne, because the average age of the AEW fan is 45 and they've probably done further research to discover that they're not the most trendy specimens on Planet Earth. That's what their insight gives them.

And yes, I'm sure advertisers do get way more than Showbuzz charts. That's my fucking point, you zealot. That's why the whining from Jericho and Khan is so fucking hilarious. That's why I criticize people who take the numbers so literally, because they don't imply how those demos are further broken down and whether or not advertisers see value in them, whether due to stigma or market research.

Advertisers care about a lot of things. They care about making money RIGHT NOW (which might be why they'd choose the product with the larger global reach and more diverse audience from the start), but they also care about the growth and perception of their products, not only in the immediate sense, but also over time. Do you want to see your average AEW fan wearing your clothing label? Some businesses might say yes, and others might say no.


I never said that AEW was getting millions of viewers. Your question was if advertisers were "catering to 48 year olds who have cable", not if AEW advertisers exclusively were catering to 48 year olds, and I responded to your actual question. Advertisers want to try and reach the millions of 18-49 years olds in the 80+ million households who watch or may watch cable or satellite TV every week.

You do understand that the ads that run during Smackdown and Raw in the U.S. on Fox and USA are different and separate from the ads that are run on international broadcasts don't you? They don't get a discount for advertising on both U.S. and international broadcasters. The agreements and rates are completely separate. Whether a program or its producer has a larger global reach or a more diverse audience does nothing for advertisers who are advertising in the U.S.

Advertisers don't give a shit who among the general consuming public purchases their product, they only care that they purchase it. It's very simple. Who actually can and is most likely to purchase their product right now, and how they can get their product in front of those likely consumers, is all that matters. Those consumers are almost always a huge majority age 18-49, and white, for multiple reasons.

It's clear that you know absolutely jack shit about how media, entertainment, and advertising works in the U.S. It really seems like might be so stupid that it takes you multiple attempts just to tie your shoes.

[xrodmuc316]

I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.

[slik]

Tony being whiny/petty makes me want NXT to beat them next week

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.

Yep. :y:

And I can’t think of anything cooler than going on the internet and being a sore loser and making a fuss about the demos in the first place. It may come back to bite them, which would be hilarious.

[Emperor Smeat]

I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.

Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.

NXT's average in the demo was 262k. AEW's was 364k. So it wasn't ~80k. It was ~100k. :lol:

[xrodmuc316]

Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.

You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.

[Bad News Gertner]

Noid just owning everybody in this thread

[Emperor Smeat]

You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.

That's where the rankings add another wrinkle to the whole ratings discussion since despite both shows being lower than desired in viewership and NXT's recent win streak in viewership, AEW being a constantly higher ranked show is still more appealing to advertisers.

Like last week it was only around a 100k difference between both shows in terms of key demos but it made a huge difference in terms of rankings at #7 vs. #24. Plus for TNT, its been a goldmine for them in terms of weekly rankings since they usually struggled to rank well or even at all on Wednesdays prior to AEW's arrival.

NXT's main problem is while its been enjoying a recent surge in viewership popularity and wins, almost all of its real gains are coming from WWE's older viewership which isn't sustainable for long term growth. On the flip side, AEW shedding its older viewers in recent weeks now leaves it a lot more susceptible to viewership spikes depending on outside circumstances like big sporting events since their younger viewers have been a lot more volatile than NXT's younger viewers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wasn’t that impressed when I heard AEW was only beating NXT in the old key demo by 100k viewers, but then I heard that they were ranked 7th and 24th and placed all my money on red.

Haha, get the fuck out.

[Emperor Smeat]

Fine. I'm done bother talking about ratings for shows anymore since a bunch of twats here has made it a lot less fun or enjoyable to discuss in recent times.

You or anyone else want to stick with your antics in this thread, then be my guest since I no longer give a shit anymore.

[BigCrippyZ]

You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Fine. I'm done bother talking about ratings for shows anymore since a bunch of twats here has made it a lot less fun or enjoyable to discuss in recent times.

You or anyone else want to stick with your antics in this thread, then be my guest since I no longer give a shit anymore.

Stop being such a sook. You said something stupid. 7th and 24th were separated by 102k viewers this week. A lot of them probably people advertisers want nothing to do with, since wrestling fans are far from trend-setters, and you played it up like a big deal.

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

A lot of advertisers have gone digital, since cable is a dying medium. It's no longer the best way to reach people in these demographics. They also get a lot more information than a fucking chart from Showbuzz. They're interested in disposable income, spending habits and whether or not the people in that demo are going to fit their brand image.

Gertner went through the sponsors AEW is attracting. Sounds like a old, fat, white audience. Super-attractive to advertisers and sponsors, right? If you want to compare this to NXT, you've got a worldwide audience (far more established than AEW) and a PG rating, which makes them a lot more accessible. Mountain Dew sponsored the show last week, apparently, so they would have had a commercial broadcast all around the world that lives in perpetuity. Plus, NXT isn't taking anywhere near as much of that from USA's mouths as AEW is from TNT.

By the way, AEW has lost 59% of their fans in that demo since they started.

Stop trying, Cripz. This promotion keeps shooting itself in the foot and the honeymoon is over. More and more people are realizing that those who were saying "Whoa-oh" from the start were right, and you just can't deal with it because you're a zealot who is so obsessed with hating anything and everything WWE that anything else was going to be "such good shit" and your ability to reason on the subject was blocked. You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse and wrestling is worse off because people kept kissing vanity promotion ass.

Prove me fucking wrong.

[BigCrippyZ]

Stop being such a sook. You said something stupid. 7th and 24th were separated by 102k viewers this week. A lot of them probably people advertisers want nothing to do with, since wrestling fans are far from trend-setters, and you played it up like a big deal.



I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

A lot of advertisers have gone digital, since cable is a dying medium. It's no longer the best way to reach people in these demographics. They also get a lot more information than a fucking chart from Showbuzz. They're interested in disposable income, spending habits and whether or not the people in that demo are going to fit their brand image.

Gertner went through the sponsors AEW is attracting. Sounds like a old, fat, white audience. Super-attractive to advertisers and sponsors, right? If you want to compare this to NXT, you've got a worldwide audience (far more established than AEW) and a PG rating, which makes them a lot more accessible. Mountain Dew sponsored the show last week, apparently, so they would have had a commercial broadcast all around the world that lives in perpetuity. Plus, NXT isn't taking anywhere near as much of that from USA's mouths as AEW is from TNT.

By the way, AEW has lost 59% of their fans in that demo since they started.

Stop trying, Cripz. This promotion keeps shooting itself in the foot and the honeymoon is over. More and more people are realizing that those who were saying "Whoa-oh" from the start were right, and you just can't deal with it because you're a zealot who is so obsessed with hating anything and everything WWE that anything else was going to be "such good shit" and your ability to reason on the subject was blocked. You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse and wrestling is worse off because people kept kissing vanity promotion ass.

Prove me fucking wrong.

This has nothing to do with AEW or WWE/NXT or even specific advertisers. This is just the realities of today's advertising rates. Just because advertisers are spending more on digital has nothing to do with how ad rates are calculated for TV, radio, etc. I help with these kinds of ad rate deals quite often, and I just did some more a couple months ago. If I could show you the underlying data and formulas advertisers and broadcasters use to determine ad rates without breaking privilege I would.

:lol: Also, a Mountain Dew sponsorship is not remotely the same thing as an ad buy. It has nothing to do with how much USA receives from advertisers nor how much WWE receives from USA. It'd be great if you could at least try to know the terminology and differences in what you're talking about.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This has nothing to do with AEW or WWE/NXT or even specific advertisers. This is just the realities of today's advertising rates. Just because advertisers are spending more on digital has nothing to do with how ad rates are calculated for TV, radio, etc. I help with these kinds of ad rate deals quite often, and I just did some more a couple months ago. If I could show you the underlying data and formulas advertisers and broadcasters use to determine ad rates without breaking privilege I would.

:lol: Also, a Mountain Dew sponsorship is not remotely the same thing as an ad buy. It has nothing to do with how much USA receives from advertisers nor how much WWE receives from USA. It'd be great if you could at least try to know the terminology and differences in what you're talking about.

Actually it does have everything to do with AEW and NXT -- that's what we're talking about. And unless you are going to suggest that there is a blanket rule for the rate networks sell ad rates at, dependent completely on one demo, determined by their placing on a Showbuzz chart with a difference of an estimated 80k being significant, with no other data, your work is still cut out for you.

There is so much more that goes into ad rates than a simple score in a demo.

Of course it's not the same as an ad buy. One is a sponsorship and the other is an ad buy, hahaha. I'm talking about the overall appeal of these programs to other businesses. Don't act like that is irrelevant. It's got everything to do with how effective the reach of NXT is versus AEW, which is the whole purpose of discussing this stuff. Nice smokescreen though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's going to be absolutely hilarious when NXT starts beating AEW in the demos.

[xrodmuc316]

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.

It's not though. Dynamite doesn't have any major advertisers. Even after including an actual Cracker Barrel barrel on their show in a gimmick match, I still can't remember there being a Cracker Barrel commercial airing during an episode of Dynamite.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve spoken to advertisers who are fans and defenders of AEW, and they have never made the assertion that a difference in 100k viewers in the 18-49 demo doubles your ad revenue. Implicit in this assertion is that since AEW launched in 2019, they have had their ad revenue halved twice. What a load of shit.

Imagine going ga-ga over being 7th in the demo and “this being a business” when you’re making a quarter of what you did in ad revenue from mere months ago.

[slik]

1.561 million

All-time low for RAW


https://i.postimg.cc/KckBpY5P/raw.png

[slik]

On the positive, 3 of the top 6 in demos

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think this is the worst thread in all of TPWW.

[drave]

In all or just key TPWW demo's though Dave?


IT FUCKING MATTERS

[Jordan]

All time as in since 93 or since it went 3 hours?

[slik]

I always wonder what they did in the early/mid 90s -- IDK -- The news sites are indicating this is the lowest

[slik]

I think next week they'll get a bump from post THE HORROR SHOW EXTREME RULES

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In all or just key TPWW demo's though Dave?


IT FUCKING MATTERS

Dale's aged 33-33 fucking hate this thread.

[Volare]

I like how everyone comes together here.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I like how everyone comes together here.

lol just to argue about ratings, which is so fucking stupid lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wonder if Vince McMahon will get on Twitter and whinge about how no one talks about the demos on Monday?

[slik]

All time as in since 93 or since it went 3 hours?

I saw a post on Dave's board that said the lowest of all time ever is 1.5 million on 12/23/96, main-event was Bret Hart vs Fake Razor Ramon.

[xrodmuc316]

I think this is the worst thread in all of TPWW.

I would agree with you, BUT LOOK AT THOSE DEMOS RAW IS THE GREATEST!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[erickman]

did they lose to 1st run shows or summer reruns

[DrA]

Fuck it all

[Maluco]

It’s been too shit for way too long. This is the new reality for them. Only the hardcores now.

[#1-norm-fan]

I wonder if Vince McMahon will get on Twitter and whinge about how no one talks about the demos on Monday?

Well, he got beaten pretty badly in the demos so that would be a weird thing to do.

[xrodmuc316]

Well, he got beaten pretty badly in the demos so that would be a weird thing to do.

He got 1.75 times the demo amount with Raw than what Tony Khan and Chris Jericho brag about every Thursday...

So yeah, it's kind of weird, I agree.

[#1-norm-fan]

YUP!

Failures all around!

[#1-norm-fan]

Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good

[slik]

yeah it might go the way of roller derby if this trend continues where it goes from being a niche thing to an ultra-niche thing.

In some ways today UFC books pro wrestling better than pro wrestling and if someone is in high school would it be cooler to talk about ufc or wwe/aew?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yep, wrestling sucks and it’s only getting worse.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good

thank you

[Jordan]

yeah it might go the way of roller derby if this trend continues where it goes from being a niche thing to an ultra-niche thing.

In some ways today UFC books pro wrestling better than pro wrestling and if someone is in high school would it be cooler to talk about ufc or wwe/aew?

Roller Derby a very apt comparison. Very interesting times. WWE has old PPVs airing regularly it seems on FS1. I saw a few years old Survivor Series on last night. Plus the Peacock deal with 100 WWE hours available. They are going to make money for a long long time but the buisness that we ALL love is certainly like a covid patient at an overcrowded hospital in Florida. It needs a ventilator but at this point it doesn't matter, it's dead anyway.

[drave]

Can't wait for all these specific channel streaming services to die a shit death like they need to.

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, this weeks line up looks like a 4th straight win for NXT!

[xrodmuc316]

Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good

Is that what I actually said? NO, I said it would be weird for Vince to brag about the demos. Which makes it even weirder that they do it for AEW.

[#1-norm-fan]

No. That’s what I actually said. I didn’t even quote you. Not everything is about you, fuckface.

[drave]

That post brought to you by


https://forgottenadvertisements.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/macho-man-slim-jim.jpg

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

No. That’s what I actually said. I didn’t even quote you. Not everything is about you, fuckface.

Xrod is TPWW's resident weener-boy, so I support this message.