MLB Thread

[Ruien]

Mets will be putting one up in the 8th, this current inning.

[Ruien]

Called it

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lagares had a pretty sweet at bat

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

how them knuckles Vito?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>That was a dagger in the heart of a team if I've ever seen one. :-\ The only trustworthy guy in the bullpen blows it.

I really can't see how the Mets escape this with a win. Hope deGrom is on his A-game tomorrow.</font>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

haha, I wouldn't say "blows" it. One run games are notoriously fucking hard to save. Everybody's number is up eventually, the key is he didn't implode and we're onto extras.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>He did blow it, though. I can't be mad at him because he's been money all season and postseason but he had the chance to lock down the biggest game of his life and he surrendered a moonshot. Sucks.

And this Mets bullpen is not gonna survive a battle of the bullpen with the Royals. They just won't.</font>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Jonathan Niese disagrees with you

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol why the fuck did they bother activating noted clutch pinch hitter Juan Uribe on the roster when they are just having Cuddyer take hapless swings.</font>

[Ruien]

Damn. Hard game 1 loss. Granderson is coming through huge next game to carry the Mets.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>What a clusterfuck of emotions last night. The Hosmer error invoked memories of Buckner only for Alex Gordon to be like "nope". Truthfully I knew the game was lost after that, and I said as much when it happened.

Familia definitely gets a share of the blame. Not as much as the offense for continually failing to capitalize or Harvey for letting up those 2 runs in the 6th when he needed to clamp down, but he did still blow the save in the biggest game of his life. It happens. Just really unfortunate timing.

Not winning that ballgame after that error is just a really bad omen I think. That may well be the only error the Royals commit all series, and they couldn't turn it into a win. Sucks.

But at the end of the day I never saw the Mets taking both games in KC. This team has come out guns blazing in the face of adversity all year. Gotta win tonight because the series is most certainly over if you let the Royals take a 2-0 lead. They're too good.</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

Former Red Sox GM Ben Cherrington taking at least a year off from baseball after declining management jobs from both the Yankees and Phillies recently. Got hired at Colombia University as a teacher for their sports management program.

Would likely have become the assistant GM with the Yankees to replace the guy who recently left and likely as the possible new GM for the Phillies.

[ClockShot]

Cherrington's insight would have been a nice refresher for the Yankees.

Teaching.......interesting.

[road doggy dogg]

Anthopoulos rejected the Jays' contract extension. Mildly surprising but kind of what a lot of people expected would eventually happen when they got a new president. He should easily get a job elsewhere.

[road doggy dogg]

<font color=goldenrod>Ruben Amaro Jr has a new job...........








......Red Sox first base coach</font> :lol:

also, don't think I fully appreciated this hilarious news tidbit yet

[Evil Vito]

also, don't think I fully appreciated this hilarious news tidbit yet

<font color=goldenrod>Amaro (who numerous posters have made fun of and who noted Phillies fan screech hates) was the GM of Philly for the better part of the last decade. He got fired this year and now accepted a job as Boston's 1B coach.

Basically it's just a ridiculously huge demotion, especially since 1B coaches really have fuck all to do.</font>

[DaveWadding]

They hand out butt pats and keep the guys' batting gloves safe.

[Bad News Gertner]

Fucking hate everything

[road doggy dogg]

<font color=goldenrod>Amaro (who numerous posters have made fun of and who noted Phillies fan screech hates) was the GM of Philly for the better part of the last decade. He got fired this year and now accepted a job as Boston's 1B coach.

Basically it's just a ridiculously huge demotion, especially since 1B coaches really have fuck all to do.</font>

oh no no, I understand what happened and all, I just did not give it its appropriate LOL-ness

what I'm actually reading about the move though is that he may be trying to use it to transition into more of a manager role, and could feel that "on-field experience" may help him in that regard, which I guess kind of makes sense?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Might be. Just seems that first base coach duties are relatively light, enough so that I'm not sure how much experience there would be to glean from it. He'll probably be expected to be an infield coach or something in addition to 1B coach, as there's not too much he'd need to do in-game.

Feel like if you want to become a manager, you're best off trying to land a minor league gig where you can properly run a team and then work your way up from there. But who knows. I hope it works out for him somehow because it'd make for a nice story.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Pretty sure eventually all 30 big league manergial jobs will be taken by former catchers anyway.</font>

[road doggy dogg]

Ausmus has been working out well so far!

[Emperor Smeat]

Some management news:

* Marlins hired Don Mattingly as their new manager.
* Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos rejected a contract extension and has left the team.
* Padres hired former D'Backs 3B coach Andy Green as their new manager.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Interested to see what Mark Shapiro does with the team.

[ClockShot]

Whoa. Double A left the Blue Jays?!

I don't think all the moves at the trade deadline warranted him to fall on his sword. Somebody will snatch him up.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well I dunno, they offered to extend him with a handsome deal, so it's obviously about his motivations vs the team not wanting him. He's clearly not thrilled about suddenly having someone to answer to vs Paul Beeston who's a marketing guy and not a baseball guy.

I'm not overly concerned. One of the Jays analysts made the point that Mark Shapiro hasn't exactly come to Toronto looking to lose.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Biggest problem moving forward with Shapiro is if he tries to be the new sheriff in town and takes a resentful attitude towards the Toronto faithful weary of this controversial beginning to his tenure. The "I know better than you attitude" really only holds weight if you have actual success (within the organization) to draw upon. The community and players have a fondness for AA and aren't going to pleased with this. He needs to be smart and respect what he's coming into, and not be a giant (yet typical to these kinds of roles) dickwad about it, or else the attendance and fanbase as well as players willing to come play in Toronto will dwindle fast. This is a fickle city with baseball, they demand results or they don't go to ball games.

The most concerning thing is if he starts trying to work from a shoelace budget perspective and doesn't make winning moves, but instead rebuild or status quo moves. The writing will be on the wall at that point that this guy in this situation is completely up his own ass and he simply won't last.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

shoestring budget* SHOELACES ARE EXPENSIVE YO

[ClockShot]

After the Marlins hire Donnie Baseball as manager, they turn around and fire GM/Manager Dan Jennings.

Mattingly mad a big mistake taking the Miami job. Loria is a basketcase. And this move proves it.

[road doggy dogg]

They hired Don Kelly?!

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Mets got Bucknered! Poetic Justice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol you're probably the only Red Sox fan that cares about Bill Buckner even after winning 3 titles since 1986.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>anyway, unfortunate loss but I'm nowhere near as bummed as I thought I would be. I basically thought the series was over at 2-0 and had vowed to not allow myself to get my hopes up unless they knotted it up 2-2.

would be hilarious if the Mets can pull off the biggest heist in World Series history but I just don't see it. Royals have got this. still a far better Mets year than I ever could have hoped for.</font>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah the Murphy error was costly but nowhere near as costly as walking 2 Royals in a row especially when ur up 0-2 in the count. Royals are fucking back breaking.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I still think Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS hurt me worse than any of these late World Series losses. Might have just been where I was in my fandom at that time. There was absolutely zero doubt in my mind that that team was winning the World Series. And when Beltran took that backwards K I went completely numb.

Games 1 and 4 this year hurt, but I still didn't feel the same level of disappointment that I did in 2006. You know that Simpsons ep where Bart pauses the tape to pinpoint the second that Ralph's heart breaks after Lisa dumps him? That was me in 2006. I think it single-handedly altered the way I view baseball and sports in general because it was really the first time in my sports fandom that I got completely crushed in part due to having unwavering confidence. Seriously, go back to some of the really old MLB threads and you'll see how different my mindset was, lol.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I know I've gotten a lot of shit over the years for being negative, and even I can admit I've been irrational at times. But this year made me understand that there is light at the end of the tunnel. There's no guarantee how long the window of contention will stay open, so I've just embraced this run while I can and have accepted it for what it was.

You look at comments on Mets blogs and you'll see loads of people talking about how this year was their chance and how they have a feeling the Mets will find a way to not make the playoffs again in the next few years with this pitching staff. The average Mets fan is wayyyyyy more jaded than even I am. I have no idea what the Mets will do in the next few years, but I do know that the very idea of having a guy who throws 96 MPH with his left arm like Matz as our fucking #4 (maybe even #5 once Wheeler is back) starter is simply outrageous. Win or lose I can't wait to see these guys pitch the next few years.</font>

[weather vane]

Come on Mets!!!!! Fuck.

[weather vane]

@Vito Cruz you should be jaded. They are the fucking Mets. Misery.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wow Mets

Either throw that to first a lot quicker or force the guy at 3rd to stay even if meant letting the other runner go to first.

[BigDaddyCool]

The Mets are a bunch of bums.

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals: 1st team to win 3 games in a single World Series in which they trailed in the 8th inning or later (via <a href="https://twitter.com/EliasSports">@eliassports</a>)</p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/661055852426747904">November 2, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

On the flip side, Familia for the Mets now owns the WS record for most blown saves with those 3 games.

[BigDaddyCool]

WOOOOO ROYALS

[RaginRonic]

Good to see that FOX Sports is only interested in making sure that Canada's national flag is nowhere near the Commissioner's Trophy.

To me, FOX committed an anti-Jays, anti-Canada fuckjob in the ALCS. If FOX is going to use Old Glory like that, then FOX should be stripped permanently of the MLB broadcast rights, and have them go to CBS...it'd be nice vengeance for what FOX did to CBS in 1993, getting the NFC games package for the NFL out of CBS' hands.

FOX should have been banned from bidding, given the network's contaminated social editorial direction. > = (

[screech]

lol

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Poor Familia really deserves better fate than blowing 3 saves in the World Series. The media will try its hardest to paint him as a choke artist despite his amazing season...even though his only proper blown save was in game 1. In games 4 and 5 he came into impossibly difficult situations and got victimized by the Mets' awful infield defense. Rivera wouldn't have gotten out of those jams against this Royals team.

Can just chalk it all up to the save being a completely arbitrary and meaningless statistic really.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I was at my dad's watching the game and after the bottom of the 9th I went home and went straight to bed. Duda's misplay made me sick and then seeing them respond with going down 1-2-3 with minimal resistance was all I needed to see. I had no desire to keep watching at that point. They wouldn't have scored again if they played 50 more innings.

There would have been more honor in getting swept decisively in each game than there is flat out blowing 3 games in the fucking World Series. The Royals of course deserve the credit for being tough bastards and for capitalizing on any and all Mets mistakes, but jesus christ the Mets fucking bricked it especially in games 4 and 5.</font>

[screech]

Seems crazy that every player on the Royals played in the World Series. Feel like that just doesn't happen.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The Royals have a very back breaking style of play. Any time you lose to them, it just makes you look bad, due to how good they are. Not only is the offence disciplined and consistent, where they make the pitcher work for EVERY OUT, but they put the ball in play and make the defence work for every out.

On top of that, for every team, it's a race to the sixth inning. Not just to be winning, and have a lead, but to have a substantial lead so you don't have the battle against their bullpen. Blown leads don't mean so much when you aren't up against an almost 100 per cent SHUT DOWN bullpen where you just can't get runs off of them.

So Vito, the Mets were over matched. It hurts to blow games, but they hadn't played a team like Kansas City, who are just down dirty battle tested dogs. Kansas City is MLBs wake up call. Starting from shattering Houston's rallying cry, to winning a nice little series against the Jays, where both teams shined but KC was clearly the better team to just breaking the Mets' backs from game one by just grinding.

[Damian Rey]

Credit given where its due for the Royals bringing home a title, but let's not pretend that the Mets very much blew it both on defense and game management. Harvey shouldn't have gone out for the 9th, Familia should've not been used in a blowout game that burned precious innings, Collins should've deployed Ligares in game one, and pulled DeGrom in game 2 before it got out of hand.

Granted, the Royals took extreme advantage of the opportunities presented to them and maybe the series ends in their favor anyways. But it didn't need to end last night with the Mets handing the trophy over.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I was 100% on board with Harvey coming out for the 9th. He'd earned the chance. But leaving him in after the leadoff walk to Cain was stupid.

Tying run on 2nd with no outs against a Royals team that puts everything in play was a situation almost nobody could have gotten out of. And Familia basically did get out of it and did exactly what he needed to do...until fucking Duda botched a throw that a Little Leaguer would have made in stride.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Look - I even said on here after they won the division (something I never saw as a realistic option in Spring Training, much less in June when they had John goddamn Mayberry Jr batting cleanup) that anything they did in the playoffs was gravy. I felt that way even moreso after the thrilling NLDS win, and felt it even more after the NLCS.

I knew the Royals would be fucking hard to beat, and they'd need to play crisp, mistake-free baseball to do so. I went into the World Series knowing it would suck to come close and lose but, at the end of the day, there'd be no shame in losing to this Royals team.

But to lose in THAT fashion? They were 2 outs away from winning Game 1 and Familia threw his worst pitch of the postseason. 5 outs away from winning Game 4 and Murphy decided to pull a Murph. 1 out away from winning Game 5 and Duda literally threw it away.

8 fucking outs is all that separated the Mets from a title. The Royals absolutely deserve to be champions for managing to stage a comeback. But knowing the Mets completely melted down in the late innings in 3 of their losses is a bitter pill to swallow, especially since 4 and 5 were completely preventable if they had even league average defenders. Moreover, as someone who has dealt with "LOLMETS!" comments since 2007, it really sucked that the team had to lose in that fashion and give people a chance to crap on them even after going through all of that to repair their image.

Even if I was viewing the WS as house money, the reality is pennants are never a sure thing. I believe this team will contend for a playoff spot for the next few years but even if they make it, the playoffs are a crapshoot. How many times has the prohibitive playoff favorite been knocked out in the division series round? Getting to the fall classic is hard.

If the Mets don't get back to that point while they have this pitching staff intact, it's completely fair for Mets fans to point to 2015 as "the one that got away"...maybe even moreso than 2006.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Harvey has a well documented history of becoming mortal after the 100 pitch mark. It's not just a random occurrence. It's happened enough times, including this year, to be able to say he's done at 100.

Like I said, maybe the Royals win anyway but at least it wouldn't have been handed to them the way that it was. The Mets were very much good enough to be the Royals. They just blew it.

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congrats to the 2015 <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB">@MLB</a> World Series Champions the Kansas City <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals">@Royals</a>! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HeadedYourWay?src=hash">#HeadedYourWay</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DontGetChampagneOnTheTitle?src=hash">#DontGetChampagneOnTheTitle</a> <a href="https://t.co/MAdLZ7r4pw">pic.twitter.com/MAdLZ7r4pw</a></p>&mdash; Triple H (@TripleH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/661220471602438146">November 2, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

WWE could probably make a lot of money if they make a deal with sports leagues to sell custom team logos for WWE belts. Give some to teams that win and sell the rest to fans who buy their own WWE belts.

[Damian Rey]

Saw that on Facebook. Thought it was pretty sweet.

[BigDaddyCool]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congrats to the 2015 <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB">@MLB</a> World Series Champions the Kansas City <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals">@Royals</a>! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HeadedYourWay?src=hash">#HeadedYourWay</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DontGetChampagneOnTheTitle?src=hash">#DontGetChampagneOnTheTitle</a> <a href="https://t.co/MAdLZ7r4pw">pic.twitter.com/MAdLZ7r4pw</a></p>&mdash; Triple H (@TripleH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/661220471602438146">November 2, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

WWE could probably make a lot of money if they make a deal with sports leagues to sell custom team logos for WWE belts. Give some to teams that win and sell the rest to fans who buy their own WWE belts.
i need that so bad.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Mets biggest problem during the playoffs was not having to overcome adversity to the level of KC. The LA series was tough no doubt, but the Mets had the benefit of being the plucky thorns in the side of LA. They then steamrolled Chicago, and it was almost too easy. One can assume Chicago hit a BAD skid at the wrong time... it happens. Still obviously a great team and a feather in the Mets cap.

KC battled from 6-2 down, with 6 outs to go against Houston. The Jays while outplayed gave them a stern test, and by the time it came to the Mets they just seemed battle ready. Couple that with last years playoffs and I just don't think the Mets were at a point as a team to deal with KC...... as can be seen in literally every decision and play made. I'd have to agree with D-Ray and Vito, that the Mets certainly had the talent and ability to win (They were in and leading almost every game), but I think KC's tenacity shocked them. John Gibbons said it best, in that you just can't have one off moment against them. I honestly think it's just difficult when a team keeps coming at you and at you, particularly when the previous two team you've played imploded on themselves.

[weather vane]

The problem with The Mets is

- D is awful, like really awful

- Offense went SO COLD

- Not taking Harvey out after the walk in the 9th

- Bringing Familia into the worst situations

- How the fuck do the Mets not play no doubles with Hosmer up in the 9th? Terry Collins is how.

[weather vane]

All that said. Fuck the Royals. Good season Mets.

Do you want Cespedes back? Murphy?

[screech]

Dusty Baker is your new Nationals manager.

[Frank Drebin]

RIP Strasburg

[Frank Drebin]

Jays went all in this year, then their GM bolts. Not good.

[Evil Vito]

Do you want Cespedes back? Murphy?

<font color=goldenrod>I know I was all in on Cespedes when he was tearing shit up in August and early September and I was all "blank check!!!" and Damian Rey was all "whoa slow down buddy"...and he ended up being 100% right.

I'll always appreciate what Cespedes did for the team. The tear he went on was unlike anything I'd seen before and it's very possible they never win the East (let alone in a blowout) without him. He was well worth Michael Fulmer, who I think Detroit are going to be very happy with. That said, he completely disappeared in mid-September and never returned. His approach is very much homer-or-nothing and when he gets cold, he's glacially cold.

Add that to the fact that he's clearly not a true CF in spite of what he says and he tends to really loaf it on some plays and I just can't see how he's worth the $120+ million for 6 years or whatever he'll end up wanting. They'll be worse off without him but it's not yet known how high the Wilpons will be willing to increase payroll over the next few years and keeping these pitchers together even through arbitration is gonna be very expensive.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>As for Murph...if I had my druthers I would re-sign him, put him at 1B full-time, and trade Duda. Murph is not the power hitter Duda is (in spite of Murph's playoff performance) but he is far more consistent offensively over 162 games than Duda. And at 1B Murph has looked competent. It's clear that Murph can't play 2B anymore. If the Mets are going to continue to hinge their hopes on pitching, they need strong up the middle defense and Murph at 2B cannibalizes that idea.

I suspect the Mets won't do that, though. They're very high on Dominic Smith who scouts feel might be big league ready as soon as 2017. Duda has 2 years of arbitration left at a lower cost than what Murph will get, so I suspect they'll just ride it out with the streaky Duda to bridge the gap to Smith. Murph's best value would really be in the AL as a guy you could plug into a corner infield spot and maybe even DH.</font>

[ClockShot]

Mets are keeping Terry Collins around until 2017.

He's earned another 2 years in Queens with this season's performance, IMO.

[Emperor Smeat]

Red Sox giving one more chance to Clay Buchholz after picking up his option for next season. Could have just paid $245,000 to buy out his contract but instead took the $13 million he's owed for next season.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Shit

[Nicky Fives]

Red Sox giving one more chance to Clay Buchholz after picking up his option for next season. Could have just paid $245,000 to buy out his contract but instead took the $13 million he's owed for next season.

The second head scratcher I saw after the Jays picking up Dickey's option for $12 million..... That's an awful lot of money for a 41-year old starter, especially when money may be an issue when attempting to re-sign the likes of Price & Estrada

[BigDaddyCool]

OMG, the mood in KC is so electric right now.

We are going back to the World Series next year. Deal with it baseball.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The second head scratcher I saw after the Jays picking up Dickey's option for $12 million..... That's an awful lot of money for a 41-year old starter, especially when money may be an issue when attempting to re-sign the likes of Price & Estrada

Their pitching situation is a little bit dire at the moment. Don't really agree with the move but he'll give you 200 plus innings and his age isn't as relevant since he's a knuckleballer. Price is all but gone but I could see them QOing Estrada and likely picking up a first round draft pick for their troubles and nabbing a pitcher in the draft. (Who will most likely not pan out lol)

[Penner]

I don't get it though. Am I not cool enough to be a baseball fan. I legit knew like every player from the ages of 6-13. I wanted to be Pet Hentgen. Clearly I don't pass Tonyboys test.

It's Pat Hentgen DALE

[Evil Vito]

OMG, the mood in KC is so electric right now.

We are going back to the World Series next year. Deal with it baseball.

<font color=goldenrod>Wouldn't surprise me. They're likely to lose Gordon, Zobrist, and Cueto which will make things tough but the core of the team is still going to be together. The team is definitely built for long-term success.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Actually kinda crazy how fast the baseball offseason moves relative to other sports. In football it's like a month and a half of nothing before you even get into free agency.

Even though the big names will likely wait out the market, there can officially be free agent signings as early as Saturday morning. Weird to think about. For the World Series teams there's really no time to dwell on things.</font>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's Pat Hentgen DALE

I spelt his name in a south African accent ANDREW

[Nicky Fives]

Their pitching situation is a little bit dire at the moment. Don't really agree with the move but he'll give you 200 plus innings and his age isn't as relevant since he's a knuckleballer. Price is all but gone but I could see them QOing Estrada and likely picking up a first round draft pick for their troubles and nabbing a pitcher in the draft. (Who will most likely not pan out lol)

I wouldn't rule out them keeping Price.... he seemed to have a lot of fun with that team and if they could come close to the money he'd receive elsewhere, I think he may stick around..... I'd definitely resign Estrada, never going to be a #1 starter, but a solid 3-4 guy that will eat innings and will hardly ever have a bad night.....Restocking up the minors may not be a terrible idea either.....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm all for them breaking bank on price. He's a great fit. But I just don't see it happening.

[Damian Rey]

Yeah I think Price is as good gone. In an open market with other bidders with need and money it's a tough task to keep him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Only real option I think is trade Tulo for a reliable arm. I think that'd suck because he's such a calming presence in the line up, but he's the biggest asset to trade.

Also, they should sign Jeff Smardzjia as a #3 or #4 to eat up innings. Would have picked him up instead of picking up Dickey's option tbh.

[Damian Rey]

Trading Tulo only creates another hole while filling the other. I agree they'd be better off going after Samardzija.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Matt Harvey and Prince Fielder are the 2015 Comeback Players of the Year.</font>

[road doggy dogg]

Really glad for Prince

Wish Jose Fernandez came back strong this year, though Harvey definitely deserved it

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>And we have our first official trade of the offseason.

Mariners get:
RHP Nate Karns
LHP CJ Riefenhauser
OF Boog Powell

Rays get:
SS Brad Miller
1B Logan Morrison
RHP Danny Farquhar</font>

[Nicky Fives]

Trading Tulo only creates another hole while filling the other. I agree they'd be better off going after Samardzija.

Not really, move Goins to short and a healthy Devon Travis at 2nd, sign a Cliff Pennington/Darwin Barney-type veteran bench infielder as an insurance policy and calming influence for Travis and you are all set

[Damian Rey]

Goins is neither an upgrade or lateral move from Tulo. Goins had to have a career year at 27 to keep pace with Tulo, who had an extreme down year. Shipping Tulo out and replacing him with a no hit utility player isn't going to make them better.

Darwin Barney sucks. He's never been worth a roster spot but once in his career. No value there. If it turns out he has to be relied upon the jays would be in deep shit. They'd have two light hitting infielders in one lineup instead of just one.

Don't know what Shapiro's plan is, but they need to add, not subtract. I doubt ownership ok'd the adding of Tulo's salary only to dump him the next year. They have a win now team. Signing a starter or two puts them right back into possible contention.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol Darwin Barney or Cliff Pennington will not suffice. That would be JP Ricciardi esque in decision making.

Price is out of the picture though from all I've heard.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Unless Alderson has a genuine surprise up his sleeve I can see the 2016 Mets having the same kind of question marks that they had when 2015 opened up: awesome pitching, but will they have enough offense to get by? I won't even count the loss of Cespedes since they didn't open last season with him...but losing Murph's consistent bat will hurt even if you do gain back some runs defensively.

Probably just going to need to sink or swim with Dilson Herrera at 2B. The Pacific Coast League is a notriously good hitter's league but even still you don't usually see 21 year old kids handle AAA pitching with ease the way he did. He has nothing left to prove at that level. Time to see if he has what it takes to stick in the big leagues.

If Alderson upgrades the lineup I guess CF is the default choice even though Lagares swung the bat well late in the year. They won't tie up a ton of money in Heyward, Upton, etc. nor should they. But the secondary market has some good players in Gerardo Parra, Denard Span, Colby Rasmus, and Dexter Fowler. None of those 4 should break the bank should the Mets try to rope one in.</font>

[Nicky Fives]

lol Darwin Barney or Cliff Pennington will not suffice. That would be JP Ricciardi esque in decision making.

Price is out of the picture though from all I've heard.

I was simply referring to their utility infield status and that they'd play 1/5 days like Pennington/Barney has done in the past and Izturis would have done had he not gotten hurt....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I was simply referring to their utility infield status and that they'd play 1/5 days like Pennington/Barney has done in the past and Izturis would have done had he not gotten hurt....

No I understand. But why do that when you keep one of them and have tulowitzki, Travis and Goons? I think Travis would be great trade bait for a pitcher, since you have Tulo wrapped up for the next 5 years.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Blue Jays extend qo to Estrada

[ClockShot]

MLB Trade Rumor's offseason predictions are up for anyone looking for a laugh. I can see the Yankees going after Zobrist, but they're out of their minds if they think the Yankees are paying $200 million for Heyward.

[Damian Rey]

As established by myself and handsome Drebin, Heyward is fin to get paid and it's not unlikely he gets that amount over 7-10 years.

Hey Vito, what do you think it'd take for Alderson to ship Lagares to the Padres? San Diego ranked near or at the very bottom in nearly every defensive category. Lagares was about the best centerfielder in the game in 2013 and 14 defensively. I'd take the light bat if that defense showed up going forward.

[DaveWadding]

That Melvin Upton is a fine centerfielder.

[Damian Rey]

Lol maybe on my adult team but I'd rather pay him to sit on his ass and not half ass around on the field.

[Frank Drebin]

Feel like Damian and I should get a cut of Heyward's 200 mil when he signs.

[Damian Rey]

5% is how much? As much as I wish the Padres would back a Brinks truckto Heyward's front yard and shift old man Kemp to left, feel like they may be better getting Alex Gordon on a shorter deal for less annually. He's basically Heyward, just older, white and in left field.

[DaveWadding]

10 mil.

[ClockShot]

Someone put up $12.85 mil. to negotiate with South Korean first baseman Byung-ho Park.

O's, Indians, and Padres put up bids but were not enough. Tigers and Rangers ain't in.

Who needs a 1B these days?

[Nicky Fives]

No I understand. But why do that when you keep one of them and have tulowitzki, Travis and Goons? I think Travis would be great trade bait for a pitcher, since you have Tulo wrapped up for the next 5 years.

a lefty bat off the bench will not hurt.... all of them are right, as are Bautista, EE, Donaldson, Martin.... need to fit a lefty in there somewhere, and I'm not sure Smoak is the answer offensively....Ideally, they'd get a lefty that could bat 2nd.....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

a lefty bat off the bench will not hurt.... all of them are right, as are Bautista, EE, Donaldson, Martin.... need to fit a lefty in there somewhere, and I'm not sure Smoak is the answer offensively....Ideally, they'd get a lefty that could bat 2nd.....

Apparently aggressively pursuing Chris Davis. Gonna win every game 20-18

[Evil Vito]

Hey Vito, what do you think it'd take for Alderson to ship Lagares to the Padres? San Diego ranked near or at the very bottom in nearly every defensive category. Lagares was about the best centerfielder in the game in 2013 and 14 defensively. I'd take the light bat if that defense showed up going forward.

<font color=goldenrod>I don't think moving Lagares is on the Mets' radar unless it takes a longer-term commitment to land a CF than they're anticipating. It sounds like they're going to hope that they can get a guy like Span for a year or two and pair him in a platoon with Lagares staying to face LHP rather than signing a full-time CF outright.

But if they do something surprising and sign a guy like Fowler to a 4 year deal, then yeah they might decide to move Lagares before his big money kicks in later in the deal. I suspect they'd be looking for a bullpen arm. Benoit is always someone I've wanted the Mets to go after but I don't see a chance in hell they spend $8 million for a relief arm. They'd probably ask for a guy like Quackenbush or something instead: young guy with potential still in pre-arbitration years.</font>

[Damian Rey]

I'd give up Quack in heartbeat.

[Nicky Fives]

Apparently aggressively pursuing Chris Davis. Gonna win every game 20-18

Not a huge fan of that at all.....They need to focus $$$ on pitching long before they need another bat....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Not a huge fan of that at all.....They need to focus $$$ on pitching long before they need another bat....

Davis gives them trading leverage. If you have Davis, you can trade the bats because he gives the line up more depth.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

plus you just said you wanted a left handed bat. MAKE UP YOUR MIND MAN.

[Nicky Fives]

plus you just said you wanted a left handed bat. MAKE UP YOUR MIND MAN.

I want a GOOD left-handed bat, not one that will lead the league in K's.... I want an on-base, 300-hitter that will be on base for Donaldson, Bautista/Encarnacion to make dozens of the 1-run homers they hit into 2-run homers....

[Damian Rey]

Davis only gives them leverage assuming they have an extra bat, which they don't. Unless you mean Justin Smoak, who's been a bust prospect and hasn't been better than league average for his career.

Adding Davis doesn't hurt. But they'd need to add pitching as well and I'm not sure signing Davis facilitates a trade.

[Damian Rey]

I want a GOOD left-handed bat, not one that will lead the league in K's.... I want an on-base, 300-hitter that will be on base for Donaldson, Bautista/Encarnacion to make dozens of the 1-run homers they hit into 2-run homers....

Davis has a career 330 on base, including 361 and 370 in two of the last three years. He's not on base machine but by no means is he an auto out. He's a instant upgrade on the Jays. Donaldson, Tulo, Bautista and Edwin will all get on base more than enough times around each other to hit multi run homers.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They can trade Colabello and someone else, though it'd probably have to be a real talent, but with Davis, they'd be loaded on offence, at least RBI wise. They need pitching, and you have to give something to get something. Smoak had a decent year power wise but obviously he's not much for trade bait, but Colabello hit over .300 with over 300 at bats and had a nice playoff. You add another every day guy to the equation and you can pull in some pitching.

At the end of the day, you can't deny 47 home runs. Plus, put that power in the Rogers Center and you may be onto something.

[Damian Rey]

Colabello had a nice season but he's also 32 and hadn't hit anywhere near that level previously. I think teams can see this and wouldn't place much value on him. I don't what their farm system looks like but I'd imagine their best betis to sign a few starters.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Colabello had a nice season but he's also 32 and hadn't hit anywhere near that level previously. I think teams can see this and wouldn't place much value on him. I don't what their farm system looks like but I'd imagine their best betis to sign a few starters.

They do need pitching but what use is it signjng pitchers of they are literally there to fill up a spot? Yeah they can sign Chris Young for instance but he will get knocked around of he has to pitch more than 5 innings. For the most part, the jays struggle with free agent signings, they need to trade for talent. If Davis wants to play here, sign him, so it's less damaging to lose a big bat. Colabello ALONG with a name talent.... I'm talking a real weapon can bring in a good, reliable arm.

In an ideal world Price would be interested in coming back which he is not, he wants to go to chi town. Then I'd say fuck chris Davis put all the resources in bringing back dp. And Greinke isn't signing with them that is for sure. And the rest that's out there are bargain pitchers. Yeah if they can pick up a hoss like samardjzia at a good price then go for it, but in say take the free agents that'll actually sign with Toronto, so you can trade for talent and it won't murder your lineup.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

At the end of the day, Lacava and Shapiro have to have some idea of what they're doing so there'd be a reason the jaysnwould covet Davis.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Gallardo would be a nice grab too if he doesn't stay with the rangers.

[Damian Rey]

I'm not saying just sign anyone. There's plenty of depth on the starting pitching market that could be exploited. Maybe Greinke and Price don't happen, but there's guys like Zimmerman who will command big but not as big money.

Given Shapiro's feelings on AA selling the farm and going for it this year, and the now sudden interest in a big money bat, think it's fair top state the Jays are currently unpredictable.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah nobody really knows where the hell the jays are going. I think the Shapiro/AA phone call is a fabrication though. The moves they make will do the talking. But I don't think Shapiro is coming to Toronto to lose.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Zimmermann and Gallardo should be the 2 main targets tho. Only problem is who Rly wants to come to Toronto?

[Damian Rey]

Anyone of they get paid. Money talks. Those are two good and realistic options for Toronto.

Meanwhile, in Padres land, our local shit paper is reporting the Padres are actually trying to free up payroll and are to move James Shields, Derek Norris, Joaquin Benoit and possibly Kimbrel.

Excluding whatever Norris gets, the other three combine for nearly $40 million in payroll relief, assuming they wouldn't take any on I moving them. That's two quality free agents.

I'm all for Norris, Benoit and Kimbrel moving.

Before Preller, and even Josh Byrnes, the Padres made living on acquiring cheap relief pitching and turning them into quality bullpen pieces. I'm not keen on having relievers, and closers, making nearly as much as the team's best starter for a third of the production.

Benoit may be a hard sell, as part of the reason in acquiring Kimbrel was due to Benoit being unable to consistently go back to back days. And while $8 mil is not terrible for someone with his production record, he's nearing 40 and his peripheral numbers do not support him maintaining his typically low strand and run prevention rates.

Kimbrel is undoubtedly great. Going into to last year, using his career innings as the qualifier, he was, arguably, the best reliever of all time, including Rivera. That's great and all, but it's a useless piece at his price on a team that's likely going to be a 75-80 win team. He's still young, and would be the best relief arm on the market, free agent or otherwise. Question is do needs a closer bad enough to make up for what was given up for him in return.

Norris is a decent player. Some pop. Before last year, drew a decent amount of walks, not terrible defensively. However, Austin Hedges is defensively ready now and his glove is rated as good as any top defensive catcher in the game. He needs to play, and with catcher being a thin position always, I think Norris has solid trade value.

Shields is the guy I would not move. He's coming off a down year, so value is low. Hits homerun rate was abnormal, but he touched highs in strikeout rates, so there's reason to believe he'll bounce back and return to form. There's also the fact that he's owed $21 mil each of the next three years. Hard sell coming off a bad season.

The starter I would trade is Ross. Tons of strikeouts, tons of groundballs, still in his prime and making less than market value. I think Ross long term is not going to hold due to poor mechanics and terrible command. Last year, hitters were noticeably laying off his slider and it took mixing in more changeups to turn his year around. He was actually about a win better last year than the year before. Given the deep market of pitching, it may dampen his value, however, given he's still got team control for two more seasons, and won't cost a draft pick and free agent money, teams may be willing to trade value for his services of they feel the free agent market is beyond their grasp.

The Padres biggest concern right now is defense, which they were near league worst in across the board, and balancing out an awfully right hande lineup with few average or better options. They have a spectacular defensive catcher in hand already. Packaging Norris, Ross and Kimbrel in some, easy shape or form could help them net a quality shortstop and centerfielder.

I am going the all-star game being in town doesn't blind ownership once more and that they reset the direction of the franchise by building for the future now after giving it away last season.

[Emperor Smeat]

Baring any shenanigans, Ken Griffey Jr and Trevor Hoffman likely going into the Hall as 1st year eligable players. Very crowded ballot for this year with 15 new guys along with the leftovers from last year's ballot.

Maybe even Mike Piazza this year although might be tough with all the new guys.

[Sepholio]

Wake me up after next season. Maybe the Braves will decide to do something then.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Piazza's vote totals have trended upward enough to suggest he'll get in next year barring a change of heart from voters. Went from 59% to 62% all the way to 69.9% last year. It really wouldn't take too many more votes to get him in.

If he doesn't get in this year he could be in trouble for 2017 because Pudge is eligible, and with the exception of starting pitchers there seems to be a weird phobia some voters have about putting in guys who played the same position in the same class.</font>

[Damian Rey]

I would be stunned if Trevor Hoffman got in first ballot. And while being a Padres fan my whole life leads me to hope he gets recognition, I'm also of the mind relievers, and closers in particular, are generally overrated. When the 300 saves club has accumulated a comparable amount of members as the 3000 hit club despite the save being a fairly new stat, it's a joke.

I'm having a hard time seeing anyone getting in from a closers standpoint other than Rivera. At least in terms of being a shoe in.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I think Hoffman will definitely go in but it'll be a few years. Wagner may have an outside chance too but he'll flirt with running out of time on the ballot.</font>

[Frank Drebin]

HOF has been historically resistant to closers getting in let alone getting in on the first ballot. Lee Smith barely got in and he's considered one of the best closers of all time.

[Damian Rey]

Is Smith even in the hall? Fairly certain he's still waiting around.

[ClockShot]

Twins win the Byung-ho Park sweepstakes.

[Droford]

Davis has a career 330 on base, including 361 and 370 in two of the last three years. He's not on base machine but by no means is he an auto out. He's a instant upgrade on the Jays. Donaldson, Tulo, Bautista and Edwin will all get on base more than enough times around each other to hit multi run homers.

Chris Davis would get obp higher if he'd learn to hit better against the shift.

[Damian Rey]

How does the shift effect his ability to draw walks? The shift is going to effect his batting average more than anything.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Here's the full ballot for 2016.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

Writers can vote for up to 10. If I had a vote my ballot would be:

Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Griffey
Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa

Always found it ridiculous to leave out the steroid guys even if a bunch of them are assholes.</font>

[screech]

How does the shift effect his ability to draw walks? The shift is going to effect his batting average more than anything.

Because he wants to beat the shift to become the top-ranked guy in that stat.

[screech]

Trying to think like Droford a bit, there. Is there even a category for AVG vs the shift?

[Nicky Fives]

How does the shift effect his ability to draw walks? The shift is going to effect his batting average more than anything.

He's not going to get as many walks if he signs in Toronto IMO, as pitchers would definitely walk either/any of Donaldson/Bautista/EE to GET to Davis for the potential K.....

[Damian Rey]

To which they'd pay dearly since he's not an automatic out and has more power than just about anyone not named Stanton.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hoffman's numbers are ridiculous though, hard to believe he'd struggle to get in. Arguably the 2nd best closer of all time (at least statistically speaking).

[Frank Drebin]

Is Smith even in the hall? Fairly certain he's still waiting around.

My bad, meant to say he hasn't gotten in with his resume.

[Droford]

Trying to think like Droford a bit, there. Is there even a category for AVG vs the shift?

BABIP? I don't have 2015 numbers but 2014 he was shifted 85% and had a babip of .230 vs .353 not vs a shift

If Davis hit the ball down the 3rd base line even 25% of the time he was shifted against, he'd get on base almost every time he did. It annoys me watching him basically hit the ball right into the shift for outs so much

[screech]

I guess BABIP would be close. I'm sure someone has some "hard data" on it, even if it's unofficial. Feel like Fox has an intern do it whenever David Ortiz or someone is up.

It bugs me when everyone hits right into the shift. Defenses have adjusted to hitters. Why haven't hitters learned to go the other way?

[Frank Drebin]

Its a fair point. I think, since it seems to be done predominantly against power hitters, thats just what a power hitter is going to do. Hit it hard and pull the ball if he hits it on the ground. To beat the shift, he'd have to reach out and poke something low and away which he would shy away from doing since that isn't his strength.

I do find it a little interesting that only sparingly have guys tried to bunt. All they'd have to do is push it past the pitcher. I get that you don't take an Anthony Rizzo and tell him to bunt a bunch when he's got 35 HR power, and I can understand not doing that with two outs, but if a guy is leading off and they're practically giving you a whole side of the field, I would like to see more attempts to try to foil the shift that way.

[screech]

Ortiz or Fielder (or any fat guy, really) bunting against the shift would be hilarious to see.

[Emperor Smeat]

<iframe src='http://m.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=21459799&topic_id=6479266&width=400&height=224&property=mlb' width='400' height='224' frameborder='0'>Your browser does not support iframes.</iframe>

[screech]

Lol exactly

[Frank Drebin]

Apparently Tommy Hanson is in a coma which is not drug or alcohol related.

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per source: Tommy Hanson suffered catastrophic organ failure. &quot;We need prayers, we need him to wake up&quot;</p>&mdash; Zach Klein (@ZachKleinWSB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachKleinWSB/status/663932499505074176">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[screech]

what

[screech]

He's only 29 wtf

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Fuck that's horrible.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Former teammate Jordan Schafer has tweeted that Hanson has passed away. Really hope that's just misinformation.</font> :(

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>and Jose Reyes has apparently been arrested for assaulting his wife.

guy was one of my favorite Mets of all time but any respect I had for him is out the window if it ends up being true. no tolerance for this kind of bullshit anymore.</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per MLB source, former <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Braves?src=hash">#Braves</a> pitcher
Tommy Hanson has passed away
He was 29
<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RIPTH?src=hash">#RIPTH</a> 🙏</p>&mdash; Zach Klein (@ZachKleinWSB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachKleinWSB/status/663947845834137600">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:( Way too young.

[Frank Drebin]

Wow at this Tommy Hanson stuff. I don't know anything about the guy other than him being a top prospect for a while before his shoulder gave out. Feel strangely bad about it. Didn't feel like this with Adenhart, Hallman or Tavares but for some reason I do here.

[ClockShot]

Damn, what the hell happened to Tommy Hansen?! That's a autopsy report I wanna read. You just don't get "catastrophic organ failure" out of the blue.

R.I.P.

[screech]

Fuck that's awful.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Fuck. RIP</font> :(

[Boomer]

Being 29, and being a Braves fan, it all just seems so weird and out of the blue. RIP. I very much enjoyed getting to watch him pitch when he came up. He had electric stuff.

[Nicky Fives]

Damn, what the hell happened to Tommy Hansen?! That's a autopsy report I wanna read. You just don't get "catastrophic organ failure" out of the blue.

R.I.P.
Has to be some sort of virus, strange either way.... guy was a decent AAA hand, one of hundreds that were only a hot streak away from re-establishing themselves in the majors.....

[Droford]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hopCKhBzAdU/0.jpg

[ClockShot]

Yankees send 2B of the future Jose Pirela to Padres for some minor league pitcher.

Yeah, okay.

[poopfromweiner dude]

***BREAKING NEWS***

John Ryan Murphy traded to Twins for AARON HICKS

really loved JR Murphy,,,,,but I'm totally amped that I am the one breaking the news #tweitter #plugged in

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yankees get: OF Aaron Hicks
Twins get: C John Ryan Murphy</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>god dammit PFWD</font>

[ClockShot]

Log jam in the outfield now. SOMEBODY'S GOTTA GO!

So Cashman wakes up this morning and decides to wheel and deal. Where was he at the trade deadline?

[Bad News Gertner]

Reports are saying Tommy Hanson overdosed. No word on what exactly.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Jays talking long term with Marco Estrada.

[Emperor Smeat]

Reports are saying Tommy Hanson overdosed. No word on what exactly.

Speculations around the net about the same time the news of him being in a coma were about it possibly being cocaine. Something about him having past problems with it and a shady guy with a documented history being close to him. Supposedly the Braves were aware of this guy and banned him from the clubhouse out of concerns.

Pure speculations though until the autopsy report comes out stating what exactly caused his death.

[Damian Rey]

Jays talking long term with Marco Estrada.

No bueno. Estrada had a career year at age 31 that's unlikely to be repeated. His rate has declined and his batting average against on balls in play was 217. Extremely unlikely he is able to replicate that number and not regress back to the mediocre pitcher he was before.

They should let him walk and seek an upgrade.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

No bueno. Estrada had a career year at age 31 that's unlikely to be repeated. His rate has declined and his batting average against on balls in play was 217. Extremely unlikely he is able to replicate that number and not regress back to the mediocre pitcher he was before.

They should let him walk and seek an upgrade.

Babip is against him but they need to sign who they can sign. He's definitely not a surefire guy, but a money playoff performance this year gives me a little more faith in him. In saying that I have my doubts in him without Navarro but see him posting an era close to 4 which isn't that bad.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And yeah as much as he could just flame out this year sometimes you just have to reward a guy for some great work.

[Damian Rey]

No you don't. That's where you start digging yourself into a hole. Using playoff performance, where you're looking at a limited sample and giving credit to that instead of looking at the entire body of work is setting your team up for failure. Guys don't just all of sudden find something once October hits. You reward a guy with playoff bonuses that teams give out. Giving a guy a contract just because he threw well in a handful of games despite being mediocre his entire career would be a mistake.

[Frank Drebin]

Would be risky to sign him to anything more than a two year deal. I wouldn't go higher than 2/15, but I'm sure someone will go 3/30.

If we gave contracts out based on playoff performances, Marco Scutaro would be the highest paid player in baseball. I think GMs are smarter than that though. Yeah, a guy could probably make a few more bucks or maybe get another team desperate enough to throw enough chips in to reach the other high bidders, but he's not going to break the bank most likely. A good case to follow will be Daniel Murphy. If he gets more than 3/30 someone is overpaying.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

No you don't. That's where you start digging yourself into a hole. Using playoff performance, where you're looking at a limited sample and giving credit to that instead of looking at the entire body of work is setting your team up for failure. Guys don't just all of sudden find something once October hits. You reward a guy with playoff bonuses that teams give out. Giving a guy a contract just because he threw well in a handful of games despite being mediocre his entire career would be a mistake.

They definitely shouldn't break bank on him, but he had a very good year, not just in the playoffs. 3 years for 30 is overpaying but not wholly unreasonable. And yeah gis flyball rate in the dome is a tad concerning. Maybe it's too sentimental of a signing? But who else is going to make themselves available to Toronto? Honestly, this is not historically a place where players want to sign. Yeah, money talks, but money costs when you have to drastically over pay more than any other team for any half decent signing.

But your point is valid and I do have similar feelings myself, just trying to be optimistic about him because I like him :'-(

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

However one argument that can be made towards Babip is that if you have a great defence which the jays have, it'll keep that number fairly low, particularly as a pitcher who pitches to contact, with the type of command needed to be effective as a pitch to contact guy.

[Damian Rey]

That only works if you're a groundball pitcher, which Estrada is not. He's an arguably extreme fly ball pitcher with a declining strikeout rate and mediocre track record.

Yes, he had a nice year, but it's a outlier. Prior to this season he was barely a replacement level player. That's far more telling than a fluke year on the wrong side of 30.

He'd absolutely be a sentimental signing. Drebin is right, more than two years would be ludicrous. If he's available in January or February, the leverage falls into the team's lap. I'm hard pressed to think of a team that'd give up a pick to sign him when the current market is so deep.

In terms of signing players via postseason heroics, the Giants are a prime example of why it doesn't work. They've handed out contracts to Angel Pagan, Aubrey Huff, Freddie Sanchez and Marco Scutaro after postseason heroics.

Pagan is in steady decline going into his final guaranteed year, and had missed significant time over the last 3 years. They paid Freddie Sanchez $12 mil to play 60 games in 2011 and none in 2012.

They then sunk 20 mil into Aubrey Huff in 2011 and 2012 and he returned the favor by being dramatically less productive in that two year span.

Marco Scutaro was paid 20 million through this past season to play 132 games, 127 of which came in 2013.

The Jays would be wise to steer clear from Estrada unless it becomes clear nobody's gonna sign him and they can lowball him on a deal closer to his actual value per production instead of paying for a career year.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Braves are shopping Andrelton Simmons once again. Mets inquired and were told it would cost Harvey or deGrom.

I needed a good laugh this morning. Thanks, Braves!</font>

[Sepholio]

One more shitty year for the Braves. Then the new stadium opens and the are going to spend all the money they have been saving for the last 3-4 years and the NL East will just go back to the old race for second place for everyone else.

[Damian Rey]

Simmons is like the greatest defensive shortstop in ages. He could be a mediocre hitter the rest of his career and produce a hall of fame level career. That good.

The Padres kicked the tires but I doubt they'd have the prospects unless a second team gets involved.

[Sepholio]

Now that would be a laugh. Send the Padres some more players and they are just going to end up being the 2012 Braves.

[Damian Rey]

I'd take Simmons I heartbeat. He's signed thru 5years for $53 million. That's a bargain for what he gives you. The Padres would likely need to trade Ross and package him with another player, maybe Kimbrel and/or Norris, and take some of the prospects they get back and flip them to Atlanta.

[Frank Drebin]

Addison Russell is Simmons to the tenth power.

[screech]

Phillies reportedly taking calls for Ken Giles if it leads to a rotation upgrade.

I get the thought, but I'd rather they go for a guy like Happ or Fister (maybe even Chris Young?) before dealing the best guy in the bullpen.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

That only works if you're a groundball pitcher, which Estrada is not. He's an arguably extreme fly ball pitcher with a declining strikeout rate and mediocre track record.

Yes, he had a nice year, but it's a outlier. Prior to this season he was barely a replacement level player. That's far more telling than a fluke year on the wrong side of 30.

He'd absolutely be a sentimental signing. Drebin is right, more than two years would be ludicrous. If he's available in January or February, the leverage falls into the team's lap. I'm hard pressed to think of a team that'd give up a pick to sign him when the current market is so deep.

In terms of signing players via postseason heroics, the Giants are a prime example of why it doesn't work. They've handed out contracts to Angel Pagan, Aubrey Huff, Freddie Sanchez and Marco Scutaro after postseason heroics.

Pagan is in steady decline going into his final guaranteed year, and had missed significant time over the last 3 years. They paid Freddie Sanchez $12 mil to play 60 games in 2011 and none in 2012.

They then sunk 20 mil into Aubrey Huff in 2011 and 2012 and he returned the favor by being dramatically less productive in that two year span.

Marco Scutaro was paid 20 million through this past season to play 132 games, 127 of which came in 2013.

The Jays would be wise to steer clear from Estrada unless it becomes clear nobody's gonna sign him and they can lowball him on a deal closer to his actual value per production instead of paying for a career year.

I can't really argue with that logic. But deep inside I still will

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Tho as far as the conventional logic on ground ball contact pitchers vs flyball.... With pilllar and potentially revere in the outfield that's a lot of ground covered defensively with flyballs. Even his epically bad 2014 was said to be a bit of an anomally. He was never that bad. But 2 years is reasonable. Plus he's added a couple of pitches to his arsenal. I am more speaking on his potential for the coming years more than what he deservesto make in hos body of work. He's not a hard thrower mixed with evolving his game and havinng a beauty change up. There is an upside and there's possibility for longevity.

[Bad News Gertner]

The Jays are retarded if they sign Estrada to a long term deal. Don't sign players just because.

[Damian Rey]

Tho as far as the conventional logic on ground ball contact pitchers vs flyball.... With pilllar and potentially revere in the outfield that's a lot of ground covered defensively with flyballs. Even his epically bad 2014 was said to be a bit of an anomally. He was never that bad. But 2 years is reasonable. Plus he's added a couple of pitches to his arsenal. I am more speaking on his potential for the coming years more than what he deservesto make in hos body of work. He's not a hard thrower mixed with evolving his game and havinng a beauty change up. There is an upside and there's possibility for longevity.

Well he's gonna be 32, so I'd reckon he's peaked from a potential standpoint. And while outfield defense does benefit fly ball pitchers, you can't defend a homerun and the potential damage output against a fly ball pitcher is always going to be more risky. Especially when that pitcher is 32 and doesn't have great stuff.

[Damian Rey]

Phillies reportedly taking calls for Ken Giles if it leads to a rotation upgrade.

I get the thought, but I'd rather they go for a guy like Happ or Fister (maybe even Chris Young?) before dealing the best guy in the bullpen.

They should try and cash in on him. Teams might be willing to give them a guy like Happ or better who's going to cost less and have team control. Bullpen guys are expendable if the return is a mid rotation starter or everyday player.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Okay then.

Braves get:
RHP Chris Ellis
LHP Sean Newcomb
SS Erick Aybar
$3 million

Angels get:
SS Andrelton Simmons

Angels give up their top 2 ranked prospects.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Braves dealSimmons to the Angels for their two top pitching prospects and Eric Aybar. What a steal for L.A.. Their farm system isn't strong at all but they still were able to acquire a huge upgrade for them.

I'd imagine Aybar will get flipped. Can'thelp but the Braves got fleeced.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>In other news...Colby Rasmus just became the first player to ever accept the qualifying offer. He'll get a 1 year, $15.8 million contract from the Astros and then head back onto the market next year. Outfield was the deepest position in free agency this year, so it's a sensible decision from him.

Brett Anderson and Ian Kennedy are widely expected to accept their qualifying offers too, as the SP market is looking weak for next winter.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Good fucking riddance to Simmons. He absolutely killed the Mets pretty much every time the teams met up. Despite his offensive struggles he hit at like a .400 clip vs. the Mets in his career on top of the normal wizardry with the glove (Travis d'Arnaud in particular got victimized by Simmons' arm a lot).

Are they trying to get rid of every player under a long term contract? Because I'd cum buckets if they traded Freeman too.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Ugh I'd be furious if Kennedy accepted.

[Emperor Smeat]

Reds expected to be trading Aroldis Chapman within the next couple of days. A bunch of teams are interested with Red Sox rumored to be the possible favorite to get him.


Former Nationals manager Matt Williams got hired as the new 3rd Base coach for the D'Backs.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

<font color=goldenrod>In other news...Colby Rasmus just became the first player to ever accept the qualifying offer. He'll get a 1 year, $15.8 million contract from the Astros and then head back onto the market next year. Outfield was the deepest position in free agency this year, so it's a sensible decision from him.

Brett Anderson and Ian Kennedy are widely expected to accept their qualifying offers too, as the SP market is looking weak for next winter.</font>

Colby Rasmus can suck my dick

[screech]

They should try and cash in on him. Teams might be willing to give them a guy like Happ or better who's going to cost less and have team control. Bullpen guys are expendable if the return is a mid rotation starter or everyday player.

I imagine that's their reasoning, which is good because the rotation is pretty terrible. But I'm such a fan of Giles because he was pretty much the only solid hand outta the pen all year.

But to rebuild you have to give up some good talent so I guess I could live with it for a good starter coming back.

Now who wants Howard as a DH? I'll throw in a cheesesteak and some soft pretzels.

[screech]

Would love if the Braves traded Freeman also.

[Droford]

mlb-trade-rumors-chris-davis-not-gonna-happen-lol-still-funny (http://www.blessyouboys.com/2015/11/11/9673570/mlb-trade-rumors-chris-davis-not-gonna-happen-lol-still-funny)

Tigers fan page view on likelihood of signing Davis

[Frank Drebin]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nothing finalized, but lots of buzz <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bluejays?src=hash">#Bluejays</a>, Estrada nearing 2-yr deal in $24M-$29M range. Would mean not taking $15.8M qualifying offer</p>&mdash; Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) <a href="https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/664999902833999872">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Seems a bit much for a guy that has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season. I guess thats the going rate for a "dependable #4" starter?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah that's too much for 2 years. Seems like a panic/sentimental move. I do know that Lacava (along with AA) had a lot of stock in Estrada and they had been scouting him for some time. Similar to what they did with Bautista. Taking a big low odds chance. You can just hope this past year wasn't a fluke.

[Frank Drebin]

You just get worried that since Toronto traditionally doesn't have a huge budget that a deal like this could hinder them for the next couple of years by not allowing them to add that extra piece or for them to not be able to go the extra mile for David Price. Teams like the Yanks, Boston, LA and even the Angels and Cubs can afford to absorb some shit deals but not so much Toronto. It still seems like yesterday Venon Wells' contract crippled the franchise.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well their budget is top 10 as of now so they have been spending and they realize this is their window to be aggressive, so we'll see

[screech]

Might be better if he takes the qualifying offer lol

[screech]

Phillies reportedly want Marcell Ozuna. I'd be on board with that for the right price.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>It would be hilarious if the Marlins went to great lengths to keep Ozuna in AAA for a good chunk of this year just to extend his service time/delay his arbitration eligibility only to then immediately trade him to a division rival.</font>

[Nicky Fives]

Rasmus was smart to accept the offer, I wouldn't have even offered it to him....

[screech]

Did not realize no one accepted the offer before him.

[Damian Rey]

Wieters accepts qualifying offer from Baltimore. Good for both sides imo.

[screech]

Blue Jays re-sign Estrada: 2 years, $26 million

[Damian Rey]

Meh.

Brett Anderson has accepted the Dodgers' qualifying offer. That's the third player to accept. Can't imagine general managers and owners are excited about this. Draft pick compensation is dumb to begin with, but maybe now that the owners are finally gonna get punched in the wallet for the dumb Mets system, maybe there's a mutual agreement between union and owners that dramatically changes or eliminated draft compensation.

[Damian Rey]

Padres send Kimbrel to the bosox for a package of prospects, including Manuel Margot, a top 100 outfield prospect. Excellent move.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

That could make a huge difference in the al east

[Emperor Smeat]

The Boston Red Sox have acquired four-time National League All-Star closer Craig Kimbrel from the San Diego Padres in exchange for several prospects.

The Padres receive outfielder Manuel Margot, shortstop Javier Guerra, infielder Carlos Asuaje and left-hander Logan Allen.

Seems like the Red Sox gave up too much but some depth at the setup/closer role is good. Especially after how bad it got once Uehara got hurt and Tazawa fell apart near the end of the season.

[road doggy dogg]

Part of me is secretly hoping that Kimbrel in Boston ends up like every closer DD tried to bring into Detroit.

[Emperor Smeat]

At this point, wouldn't be surprised if this backfired. Way too many seasons recently where Sox pitching killed any hopes of a good season.

[Damian Rey]

Taking my love for the Padres out of it, from a process standpoint, it's a terrible move for Boston. Even if you think Boegarts and Betts are you future long term ss and cf, you just traded two players at those positions with massive major league upsidefor a guy who will cost at least $24 million to throw maybe 120 innings. You then also gave up a possible major league second baseman and starting pitcher to boot.

It's the kind of trade Dombrowski is known for, and the type of trade Boston fans should fear. Those four players could've netted an ace, or a few arms that would be upgrades, but instead gave up 4 players, who even if they end up mediocre major leaguers, will provide more aggregate value than Kimbrel every could. Hell, if only the shortstop or centerfielder work out, it's a bum trade for Boston.

[ClockShot]

Think Dombrowski overpaid for Kimbrel on this. 2 Prospects and a bag of cash probably would have done the trick.

[road doggy dogg]

Welcome to the Dombrowski era!

[Damian Rey]

Have read reports that had it only been Margot (cf) or Guerra(ss), it still would've been a bad trade.

[Nicky Fives]

Red Sox definitely overpaid, but doesn't hurt my feelings, they can eat a big bag of dicks all season long....

[ClockShot]

Phillies send Sam McWilliams to Arizona for Jeremy Hellickson.

[Damian Rey]

Who would ever want an increasingly extensive Jeremy Hellickson? I don't know why teams don't take the Cubs' approach, signing solid vets and flipping them at the deadline.

[screech]

I don't love the move, but I'd rather have Hellickson than Williams/Harang/Billingsley/Buchanan.

[screech]

Also I really hope Jeff Francouer comes back. Love that dude.

[Droford]

Boston could use pieces that will allow them to actually get to the 9th in a save situation to use Kimbrel

[DaveWadding]

Jeremy Hellickson is a tire fire.

[Damian Rey]

Droford making sense for once.

[Nicky Fives]

What the Hell happened to Hellickson, the kid was money a while back....

[Damian Rey]

He actually wasn't. He just had really good, unsustainable luck. ERA and run prevention indicators had rated him below average for years. Just finally caught up with him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Damn you and your analytics D Ray.

[ClockShot]

Kris Bryant and Carlos Correa are your Rookies of the Year.

Mariners get Leonys Martin and Anthony Bass from the Rangers for James Jones and Tom Wilhelmsen.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>There is growing sentiment that the Marlins will trade Jose Fernandez this offseason.

lol god that franchise is such a trainwreck</font>

[road doggy dogg]

Suddenly I wish we had Dombrowski still

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Big Papi has announced that 2016 will be his final season.

Might explain the "win-now" move that was the Kimbrel trade. Papi is still the heart and soul of that franchise.</font>

[screech]

<font color=goldenrod>There is growing sentiment that the Marlins will trade Jose Fernandez this offseason.

lol god that franchise is such a trainwreck</font>

I would welcome him to Philadelphia with open arms. Package him with Ozuna for two cheesesteaks and 50 soft pretzels.

[Droford]

<font color=goldenrod>Big Papi has announced that 2016 will be his final season.

Might explain the "win-now" move that was the Kimbrel trade. Papi is still the heart and soul of that franchise.</font>

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/d529ji.gif

Please give him the busted phone as a farewell gift...please..

[weather vane]

Haha love Pedroia

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Jeff Banister and Joe Maddon win Manager of the Year.</font>

[ClockShot]

Yost got screwed again?

Feel like the Baseball Writers got something against him. If that's who votes on all the awards.

[ClockShot]

Giants retain Brandon Crawford. 6-years, $75 mil.

[Damian Rey]

Manager of the year is maybe the worst award there is. There's no criteria or skill that's assessed.

Good deal for Crawford and the Giants. His glove is pretty close to Simmons', and considering how hard a decent, legitimate shortstop is to find, it's good on San Fran to lock him up now for a pretty responsible price.

In other news, apparently Matt Kemp's corpse is on the trade market. Maybe Dombrowski will bite once more. Can't think of many teams that'd be interested in watching a man break down before their eyes.

[Emperor Smeat]

Yost got screwed again?

Feel like the Baseball Writers got something against him. If that's who votes on all the awards.

Probably a mix of Royals were expected to be good and both Astros and Rangers having a huge turnaround compared to last year. Had Astros not faded near the end, probably a lock that A.J. Hinch would have won the award instead.

[Frank Drebin]

<font color=goldenrod>There is growing sentiment that the Marlins will trade Jose Fernandez this offseason.

lol god that franchise is such a trainwreck</font>

What was that Hard Knocks type show that followed the marlins staff for a while? I remember watching it and really hating Loria and Sampson. Scumbags. I feel bad for the taxpayers who funded that stadium and will have to pay tons of interest on the bonds the city and county took out.

<font color=goldenrod>Big Papi has announced that 2016 will be his final season.

Might explain the "win-now" move that was the Kimbrel trade. Papi is still the heart and soul of that franchise.</font>

I'm not one for sweetheart deals or going for it for a single player, but I would say that a guy like Ortiz was what got the Red Sox over the "cursed" era. That personality is something the cubs are sorely lacking as they try to do the same.

Manager of the year is maybe the worst award there is. There's no criteria or skill that's assessed.


Simple: Whichever team that was supposed to be bad gets the furthest from bad gets manager of the year.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Cliff Pennington becomes the first free agent to switch teams this offseason. Angels sign him for 2 years, $3.75 million. EARTH SHATTERING!

A's sign Rich Hill for 1 year, $6 million. Supposedly had a bigger money offer on the table but wasn't guaranteed the rotation spot that he was in Oakland. Good for him. Went from playing independent ball to getting a multi-million dollar deal in the span of about 3 months.</font>

[Frank Drebin]

@pfwd

I had no idea. Now I want to see that. He probably trained for months. What a douche.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Brewers get: 2B Javier Betancourt
Tigers get: RHP Francisco Rodriguez</font>

[road doggy dogg]

I like the move

[Nicky Fives]

Tigers definitely need the bullpen help, hopefully they won't regress and sign Joba The Hut again....

[road doggy dogg]

Nah definitely not. I like that they got K-Rod for probably like 2/3 what Miller is going to get. Didn't break the bank for him. Low-risk/high-reward kind of thing. Still have a lot of holes on the pitching staff as a whole but this was a good step

[road doggy dogg]

Wouldn't mind bringing back Soria as an 8th-inning guy but he probably wants a closer gig

[Emperor Smeat]

Cy Young winners:
AL - Dallas Keuchel
NL - Jake Arrieta

Keuchel beat David Price by 43 votes and Arrieta beat Zack Greinke by 22 votes.

[Nicky Fives]

I think Price would have won easily if he hadn't shit the bed in the playoffs.....his second half run was amazing....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

shit the bed is a very toronto way to look at it

[Evil Vito]

I think Price would have won easily if he hadn't shit the bed in the playoffs.....his second half run was amazing....

<font color=goldenrod>Nope. Ballots are due basically the day after the regular season ends.</font>

[Damian Rey]

What Vito said.

Glad for Arrieta. Don't think there's a wrong pick between him, Greinke and Kershaw.

Now we get to see if the dumb line of thinking about making the playoffs will be cast aside in favor of a landslide win of mvp for Harper.

[Frank Drebin]

I'd be shocked if it isn't.

[Damian Rey]

As would I, however, I put very little past the current bbwa voting process. We shall see.