All Elite Wrestling

[Mr. Nerfect]

FTR gonna be using a remixed Midnight Express theme I guess... sounds cool

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FTR theme probably the best thing about AEW. Other than maybe FTR themselves. Clever name for the track too.

[slik]

just hates what they do with their on-screen product and direction

He doesn't watch the show. It's the equivalent to reviewing a movie by reading the plot on Wikipedia.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He doesn't watch the show. It's the equivalent to reviewing a movie by reading the plot on Wikipedia.

No it’s not. Do you want to see the My Little Pony movie? Come on, you haven’t seen it. Can’t decide if you like it if you haven’t sat down and watched all 82 minutes of it. How about The Human Centipede 6: A Whole Class Ass-to-Mouth? But you haven’t seen it. Do you like The Real Housewives of Bridgeport? How do you know if you haven’t watched every single episode?

I gave AEW a chance. I saw enough. I’ve seen highlights. You can intuit their direction. I don’t go and pick apart things I haven’t actually seen. I’ll say things like “that sounds horrible,” “that doesn’t interest me,” because it does sound shit and it doesn’t interest me.

Gotta watch all 3 hours of Raw to know that shit sucks, right? Somehow, I don’t think that standard applies there.

[XL]

Look, this is basically it. I was the guy who started this thread. It was around the time of the first broken promise that I was like “Mmm...been down this path before.”

And a few things bother me on petty levels. I don’t like group hysteria. It’s really cool people like things, and just because people like things doesn’t mean it’s bad. But the fandom around AEW has been disproportionate to its quality, in my opinion, which I think lets them get away with too much to stay honest. And I also think the promotion has a very smug and self-congratulatory attitude.

I want wrestling overall to be better. Not just to my own tastes, but to what actually works and creates a healthier environment for talent...5, 10, 20 years on. I’ve said it before, but I think AEW’s philosophy has been very much “get ourselves over now” with no real plans when they turn a wider audience off that everyone is going to REALLY struggle to get back.

I’d like it if AEW got better, WWE got good again, the NWA got massive, Sinclair poured money into ROH, MLW was a hit and The Rock started his own giant promotion. But wrestling just isn’t there. And with a few moves it could be.

Could it? Wrestling was hot enough to sustain 2 huge companies for a few years with some small and medium companies off to the side…20 years ago. It captured the zeitgeist for a couple of years before it ate itself. Wrestling isn’t cool - I’m not entirely convinced it ever was to be honest - and the audience has so many other things vying for attention. Even at its very best it’s not going to be this huge deal like the latest Marvel offering or the biggest TV shows of the day. It’s pantomime and viewed as something to be laughed at for the most part by the mainstream audience. It’s something that even my friends that follow it don’t talk about it in public. It’s a “guilty pleasure”.

Can it be better? Absolutely. But it’s still going to be niche.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Could it? Wrestling was hot enough to sustain 2 huge companies for a few years with some small and medium companies off to the side…20 years ago. It captured the zeitgeist for a couple of years before it ate itself. Wrestling isn’t cool - I’m not entirely convinced it ever was to be honest - and the audience has so many other things vying for attention. Even at its very best it’s not going to be this huge deal like the latest Marvel offering or the biggest TV shows of the day. It’s pantomime and viewed as something to be laughed at for the most part by the mainstream audience. It’s something that even my friends that follow it don’t talk about it in public. It’s a “guilty pleasure”.

Can it be better? Absolutely. But it’s still going to be niche.

Don’t completely disagree. I wasn’t really thinking 10 million people watching. But there’s no reason those 2 million watching Raw can’t be watching something else.

People looking down at wrestling is a true thing, but I don’t think it’s something that you just have to concede and play into. I think people are way more willing to have an appreciation for it if it weren’t popping its own suspenders to reveal the boxers with red hearts on them all the time.

[#1-norm-fan]

Seriously, Noid. There is happiness to be found in wrestling still. It can be found Thursday nights here on TPWW in the classic wrestling thread. It’s 1986 for 2 hours unless Gertie throws off the illusion with a pre-show match from ‘87. Even if you can’t join us live the show is always posted afterward. Trade in “Miserable about wrestling Noid” for “Highly entertained by wrestling Noid.” I think you’ll like the new you.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nice try, norm-fan.

[#1-norm-fan]

THANK YOU!

See you Thursday night!

[Supreme Olajuwon]

As someone who likes the indy flippy shit of today, I was pleasantly surprised how much the stuff from the 80s holds up. I thought it would be too slow for me but it’s not. It’s paced well and exciting. Except for Ron Garvin of course. That guy can kick rocks.

[Sepholio]

Garvin is a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, probably a farmer and a truck driver too. AND HE RASSLES. You're just jelly of his multitude of skillsets.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As someone who likes the indy flippy shit of today, I was pleasantly surprised how much the stuff from the 80s holds up. I thought it would be too slow for me but it’s not. It’s paced well and exciting. Except for Ron Garvin of course. That guy can kick rocks.

Wrestling being slower is kind of a myth. I just prefer stuff that looks more organic than choreographed. It’s way more fun if the stuff looks messy but improvised than tidy but sketched out to the beat.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Garvin is a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, probably a farmer and a truck driver too. AND HE RASSLES. You're just jelly of his multitude of skillsets.

What I really appreciate is his ability to do a perfect impression of a Canadian robot in every promo.

[#1-norm-fan]

A Canadian robot who is proud to be an American.

[Vastardikai]

My ratio on Omega posts are a bit low, so I have to do a not quite important post called "Shit AEW Fans say."

There is a NEWZ article on the WhatCulture Facebook about how Cody allegedly had an angle about being #1 in the PWI 500 that was scrapped at some point, because Cody wasn't #1. I mentioned that I thought Reigns should have been #1 this year instead of Omega because he's been a consistently bigger star. Of course, that went over about as well as a fart in church.

One of the claims was because, and I paraphrase, "Omega was the World Champion in 3 separate promotions, that's never been done before!" I mentioned Ultimo Dragon and Austin Aries, who both did the same thing, with more titles. Dragon didn't count because they were Jr. Heavyweight Titles. Aries didn't count because they were mostly indy feds...

In essence, Omega has done what has never been done before, except it was done before, but that doesn't count.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I can't believe I missed this...<br><br>Umm, Dave...<br><br>MJF didn't mean...<br><br>Umm, how do I say this?....<br><br>That Darby was a school wrestling &quot;shooter,&quot; like he's a young Stu Hart. �������� <a href="https://t.co/Q29SmiO8oO">https://t.co/Q29SmiO8oO</a> <a href="https://t.co/5RX3Uk7Ohy">https://t.co/5RX3Uk7Ohy</a> <a href="https://t.co/mLXU4o6Yz6">pic.twitter.com/mLXU4o6Yz6</a></p>&mdash; Meltzer Said What? (@MeltzerSaidWhat) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeltzerSaidWhat/status/1445634778435227657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Jordan]

LOL Dave riding that spectrum

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Welcome to the team…<a href="https://twitter.com/theBobbyFish?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheBobbyFish</a> is <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AllElite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AllElite</a> <a href="https://t.co/7CI57sYakw">pic.twitter.com/7CI57sYakw</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1445945540236169217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Lock Jaw]

Ugh

[xrodmuc316]

LOL Dave riding that spectrum

There are very few things that I truly loathe, but that fact that Meltzer actually makes money with his bullshit is one of them, its mind boggling.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Welcome to the team…<a href="https://twitter.com/theBobbyFish?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheBobbyFish</a> is <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AllElite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AllElite</a> <a href="https://t.co/7CI57sYakw">pic.twitter.com/7CI57sYakw</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1445945540236169217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Half way to Undisputed

[Lock Jaw]

The only way I will accept Bobby Fish is if they use Triple A's gimmick idea for him

[GD]

Janela's got heat with Noid confirmed

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The joker isn’t in the ladder match tonight, the joker is YOU the fan 40 years old, sitting infront of your shit $200 laptop you bought off Facebook marketplace arguing with a 17 year old on Twitter about ratings, who’s the best champion, who’s jumping ship, what’s REAL wrasslin!</p>&mdash; “The Bad Boy” Joey Janela (@JANELABABY) <a href="https://twitter.com/JANELABABY/status/1445785352610869253?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

Are people okay with all the donations Fish made during his NXT tenure?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t dislike Bobby Fish or anything, but come...

[Sepholio]

Meanwhile Joey Janela is on Dark: Elevation in matches against Crowbar, who is being "managed" by The Blue Meanie. Neat fact: Crowbar is now the only wrestler to have had matches in WCW, ECW, WWE, AEW, TNA and ROH.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I thought for sure that Joey Janela had fallen into his own ass somehow. They still employ him? And they’re using Devon Storm and The Blue Meanie...in 2021?

[Bad News Gertner]

1.05 million viewers. Down 8.59%.

https://i.gifer.com/IvOH.gif

[weather vane]

9% and I’d be worried. Phew.

[weather vane]

Nobody better round up neither!!11

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wow, they didn’t even hit their 1.1 million. So much for what Tony Khan said about bringing in lapsed fans and creating new ones.

[Mr. Nerfect]

From what I’ve read about the ratings, Bryan and Punk have already kind of lost their novelty. I like both guys, but they have not been able to help the show grow in an immediate sense.

There is obviously more to it than that. It’s possible that they’ve brought in a new audience that cycles in and out as diehards die off or whatever. If people are used to bad shit, sometimes giving them good shit could be jarring. As much as I want to see it, putting WALTER and Cesaro in a wrestling series could be a tanker for a WWE show. It doesn’t mean it’s bad — it just doesn’t work for the audience cultivated.

This is a niche show that pops a little bit in the ratings for Orange Cassidy. That’s not because OC is good. It’s the car wreck mentality. Those people don’t stick around for the rest of the show. It’s like Sable’s tits in the Attitude era. You get the loyal audience that likes this shit + the gawkers who would stop flicking to laugh at it. But overall, an act like Orange Cassidy caps you. Makes you look a bit bush league. Means serious stuff isn’t going to connect on any authentic level.

AEW can add anyone they want, but when the fans they bring in check out this product, it ends up leaving the impression that this promotion is hurting the guy and not so much the guy helping the promotion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is why I get frustrated by them. Why would Vince McMahon change anything? It’s not like AEW has found an amazing recipe to use these ingredients.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s also important to remember that guys are draws in contexts. Being a big fish in a small pond helps you make an immediate impact. But some guys just end up looking like they’re in a small pond.

Punk did move a PPV in the WWE. Back in 2011. Besides that, he wasn’t a noticeable draw in the biggest promotion in the world. Bryan was apparently pretty steady for a sneeze. I’ll take that on good faith. But is he a draw in the context of being this undersized guy in the WWE going for the top spot? Or is he inherently a draw because of his wrestling? Does him going to the B promotion make him look like that “B+ Player,” as the line goes?

Are people waiting for these guys to do something that really matters. Punk’s just happy to be there wrestling lower-card guys. Bryan has already been beaten. Maybe that booking contributes to the tune-out of their arrivals?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Would tidying up the show even work? If you get rid of Cutler & Nakazawa, are the fans going to enjoy/flock to a more professional show? Or are the existing fans going to sook and whine because two jokesters have lost their position hovering around the main events?

There needs to be change if this promotion is going to get any bigger, but where is this change going to come from, and is even good change going to be too damaging?

[Mr. Nerfect]

At this point, I’d be all for Tony borrowing more money from his dad to start a second promotion. Start from scratch.

[Lock Jaw]

But is he a draw in the context of being this undersized guy in the WWE going for the top spot? Or is he inherently a draw because of his wrestling? Does him going to the B promotion make him look like that “B+ Player,” as the line goes?

This is kind of what I said about Bryan (and Punk) before. They inherently lost something of what made them special in WWE because instead of being an undersized underdog who is "succeeding despite the company", they are now pretty much the same size as all the top guys and treated just like everyone else on the roster. (The treatment of "our wrestlers are all amazing")

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is kind of what I said about Bryan (and Punk) before. They inherently lost something of what made them special in WWE because instead of being an undersized underdog who is "succeeding despite the company", they are now pretty much the same size as all the top guys and treated just like everyone else on the roster. (The treatment of "our wrestlers are all amazing")

I agree with that. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I booked a pretty nifty AEW vs. WWE invasion storyline just now. It’s not something I want to see, per se, but it was a game that came up in an online wrestling group I’m in. It ended at SummerSlam in the UK with Drew McIntyre beating Bryan Danielson to win the Universal Title back for WWE, lol.

You’d like it, Lock Jaw. A couple of big spots for Christian.

The invasion started with Jon Moxley attacking Roman Reigns on SmackDown in Cincinnati. Orton & Riddle then went after Punk on Dynamite. Orton & Riddle get attacked by FTR and Punk. A Rampage is crashed by Orton, Riddle, Roman, The Usos and Seth. An in sanctioned open challenge, 6 vs. 6, no one else gets involved elimination match for Survivor Series. TK sends his best six up against the above guys.

TK sends out Moxley, Danielson, Darby (w/ Sting — just there to make sure no funny business goes down, Christian, Punk and Wardlow. The announcers call all the AEW guys by their WWE names. Seth goes first when he’s beating up Darby and starts taunting Sting (“I broke your neck, now I’m going to break his!”). Darby rolls him up. The Usos start beating up Sting. Darby dives out onto them and Roman Spears him on the floor. Darby counted out. Riddle does some MMA stuff with Bryan and Punk, gets cocky, Punk hits a GTS and pins him. Christian pins Jimmy Uso. Jey Uso uses a steel chair on Christian and gets himself disqualified, but helps Orton pin Christian. Seth shows up again and costs Ambrose, allowing Roman to pin him. Punk is beaten down, Seth gets involved again and Wardlow deals with him as Punk is held by Roman so Heyman can slap him. Punk spits mist into the eyes of Heyman (he’s feuding with Malakai Black which is why he isn’t trusted to be on the team). Punk low-blows Reigns, tags in Bryan, who dives onto Reigns. Makes a big comeback, gets powerslammed by Orton. RKO countered into a LeBell Lock, Orton taps. Reigns on his own and gets caught in a triangle. Reigns powerbombs Bryan out, but Bryan still has the arm and turns it into a LeBell Lock. The eliminated WWE guys hit the ring (not technically against the agreement). Maybe sans Riddle, who is still technically a babyface. Wardlow starts tossing guys left right and center. A steel chair manages to bring him down a bit. Malakai Black hits the ring out of the crowd and starts throwing roundhouses. Survivor Series ends with the AEW guys standing tall, with Punk and Black regarding each other.

TK wins and gets to name his prize. He wants the six winners to be given spots in the Royal Rumble (Malakai gets it changed to seven). He also wants a series of challenge matches. No interference, some on Raw, some in WWE, some in AEW. They alternate who books it.

Bryan Danielson wins the Royal Rumble to go against Roman Reigns at Mania. Christian faces Edge in a special challenge somewhere. You get Moxley and Rollins a few times. That sort of thing. Omega vs. Styles happens at WrestleMania, with WWE winning the challenge series. But Danielson wins the Universal Title the same night, takes it to AEW. Vince wants it back. The WWE Title becomes the main belt on each WWE show in the meantime. McIntyre wins Money in the Bank and shows up in AEW and says he respects Danielson too much to cash it in on him unfairly. He’ll wrestle him at SummerSlam in the UK, if Bryan is willing. McIntyre picks up Nigel McGuinness as a coach for the match. Drew wins it back, all is right in the world, if the two sides want to keep working together, they can, but they can also give it a break until Survivor Series, where they do another 6 vs. 6, this time more organised. So you get Brock, AJ, Gable Steveson, Bobby Lashley, Edge and Finn Balor from WWE; Kenny Omega, Malakai Black, Anthony Ogogo, Christian and two other guys from AEW — maybe Punk and Wardlow again (Danielson has mellowed out).

After that you can run a yearly WWE vs. AEW show sometime.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know Vince would never do it. No shit. But if Vince let go of the wheel and WWE thought this was a good way to hot-shot their product and help wrestling, it could lead to some pretty amazing shit.

Imagine Christian getting Tony to book him vs. Orton on Rampage, with the Dynamite promo talking about how he never got to pin Orton. He lost both his WWE World Titles to him, now he wants to prove he can win. Orton shows up with Riddle, but Christian’s insurance policy isn’t Jurassic Express...it’s Edge. And then Orton and Christian wrestle a classic. Christian wins. He’s so so happy. Orton gets back in the ring and offers his hand. A respect moment for Christian. Edge then tells Christian he’s going to be going to Raw to wrestle someone too. It’s going to be him.

Chills.

[Evil Vito]

Lol Rhodes to the Top accidentally showed an unmasked Evil Uno backstage. Backstage locker room shot, camera was focusing in on Wardlow but Uno was there off to the side in full ring gear but no mask.

Of more note, Wardlow might be smashing Cathy Kelley. Good work.

[xrodmuc316]

I agree with that. :y:

I want to book an invasion too.

A gauntlet match, every male AEW wrestler vs Roman Reigns.

Roman Reigns beats them all, wins.

Acknowledge Him!

[GD]

I booked a pretty nifty AEW vs. WWE invasion storyline just now. It’s not something I want to see, per se, but it was a game that came up in an online wrestling group I’m in. It ended at SummerSlam in the UK with Drew McIntyre beating Bryan Danielson to win the Universal Title back for WWE, lol.

You’d like it, Lock Jaw. A couple of big spots for Christian.

The invasion started with Jon Moxley attacking Roman Reigns on SmackDown in Cincinnati. Orton & Riddle then went after Punk on Dynamite. Orton & Riddle get attacked by FTR and Punk. A Rampage is crashed by Orton, Riddle, Roman, The Usos and Seth. An in sanctioned open challenge, 6 vs. 6, no one else gets involved elimination match for Survivor Series. TK sends his best six up against the above guys.

TK sends out Moxley, Danielson, Darby (w/ Sting — just there to make sure no funny business goes down, Christian, Punk and Wardlow. The announcers call all the AEW guys by their WWE names. Seth goes first when he’s beating up Darby and starts taunting Sting (“I broke your neck, now I’m going to break his!”). Darby rolls him up. The Usos start beating up Sting. Darby dives out onto them and Roman Spears him on the floor. Darby counted out. Riddle does some MMA stuff with Bryan and Punk, gets cocky, Punk hits a GTS and pins him. Christian pins Jimmy Uso. Jey Uso uses a steel chair on Christian and gets himself disqualified, but helps Orton pin Christian. Seth shows up again and costs Ambrose, allowing Roman to pin him. Punk is beaten down, Seth gets involved again and Wardlow deals with him as Punk is held by Roman so Heyman can slap him. Punk spits mist into the eyes of Heyman (he’s feuding with Malakai Black which is why he isn’t trusted to be on the team). Punk low-blows Reigns, tags in Bryan, who dives onto Reigns. Makes a big comeback, gets powerslammed by Orton. RKO countered into a LeBell Lock, Orton taps. Reigns on his own and gets caught in a triangle. Reigns powerbombs Bryan out, but Bryan still has the arm and turns it into a LeBell Lock. The eliminated WWE guys hit the ring (not technically against the agreement). Maybe sans Riddle, who is still technically a babyface. Wardlow starts tossing guys left right and center. A steel chair manages to bring him down a bit. Malakai Black hits the ring out of the crowd and starts throwing roundhouses. Survivor Series ends with the AEW guys standing tall, with Punk and Black regarding each other.

TK wins and gets to name his prize. He wants the six winners to be given spots in the Royal Rumble (Malakai gets it changed to seven). He also wants a series of challenge matches. No interference, some on Raw, some in WWE, some in AEW. They alternate who books it.

Bryan Danielson wins the Royal Rumble to go against Roman Reigns at Mania. Christian faces Edge in a special challenge somewhere. You get Moxley and Rollins a few times. That sort of thing. Omega vs. Styles happens at WrestleMania, with WWE winning the challenge series. But Danielson wins the Universal Title the same night, takes it to AEW. Vince wants it back. The WWE Title becomes the main belt on each WWE show in the meantime. McIntyre wins Money in the Bank and shows up in AEW and says he respects Danielson too much to cash it in on him unfairly. He’ll wrestle him at SummerSlam in the UK, if Bryan is willing. McIntyre picks up Nigel McGuinness as a coach for the match. Drew wins it back, all is right in the world, if the two sides want to keep working together, they can, but they can also give it a break until Survivor Series, where they do another 6 vs. 6, this time more organised. So you get Brock, AJ, Gable Steveson, Bobby Lashley, Edge and Finn Balor from WWE; Kenny Omega, Malakai Black, Anthony Ogogo, Christian and two other guys from AEW — maybe Punk and Wardlow again (Danielson has mellowed out).

After that you can run a yearly WWE vs. AEW show sometime.

That was quite an enjoyable read. I wish WALTER and Timothy Thatcher were somehow a part of this. Unfortunately he'll never read this because he can't see my posts

[Sepholio]

Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.

Oof.

[slik]

Ratings won't be available until Monday for Rampage, I haven't seen that anywhere. It wouldn't shock me if that was the number though, it's not a good timeslot for wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s not a good time slot for good wrestling, let alone AEW.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dude, people online were absolutely furious over that in 98. Eric already had crazy online heat before that too. I’ll never take it that far; I’ve never claimed I could physically best Vince, I just think AEW can put on a better wrestling show than them &amp; I want people to know it</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1446925564821000193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

TK needs to shut up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And no, AEW can not put on a better wrestling show than WWE.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Idk what noid is bitching about but Jim Cornette himself heaps more praise on AEW and televisión than he does WWE. So AEW wins.

[Sepholio]

Ratings won't be available until Monday for Rampage, I haven't seen that anywhere. It wouldn't shock me if that was the number though, it's not a good timeslot for wrestling.

Its on forbes. Also reporting 196k in the 18-49 demo.

It will go up some for the final rating though. Last week the early numbers were 564k and went up to 622k for the final numbers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hate this stupid chest-thumping self-congratulatory bullshit AEW does. Your show sucks, your ratings suck, hockey is more valuable than you, stop trying to convince yourselves.

This seriously makes me want to see them humbled. Ship this shit to Boomerang and people can lie about how good it is there.

[Bad News Gertner]

Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.

Wow, TNA on Destination American called, they want their ratings back.

[xrodmuc316]

So after Phil, Bryan, Cole, and Ruby, they are back to the audience/viewing numbers they were getting before any of them signed. They just can't keep any new viewers long term, it always settles right back to the same hardcore audience.

Also, Tony Khan is an idiot bragging all the time like the short 14 year old that thinks he is great at basketball and won't shut the fuck up. If he just got out of his own way I am certain AEW would be doing better.

[xrodmuc316]

Then again, his father is pretty unsuccessful with the Jaguars and their soccer team, so maybe they can all go hide with Urban Meyers for a while.

[Mr. Nerfect]

People just can’t accept that this product isn’t good and doesn’t have any appeal to the average fan. They did all this stuff for attention, and got a little bit, but the shows have not been good enough to keep people.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Wow, TNA on Destination American called, they want their ratings back.

Ok this one made me laugh lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

There’s no Dynamite to set up Rampage is there? So they’re going into things pretty cold. I’m interested to see what NHL does in the spot. It’s going to be fun hearing people make excuses either way. If hockey does better than AEW...yikes. But if it doesn’t, going to be nice hearing all the ratings marks stutter and stammer trying to explain why a show with a lower demo is in the slot.

Dynamite is apparently getting shuffled around a lot over the next few weeks? That can wreak havoc on you. The show was already losing viewers off the back of all the revived “change the world” hype. Your TV presence being Friday and Saturday is going to be hell. But AEW just isn’t that important.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think more people watch my grandmother accidentally live stream her knitting than watch Rampage at this point. Rhodes to the Top was DOA too. I wonder how AEW would deal with being canceled? They’re quite immature and pissy about things at times.

[slik]

Bless the Taz

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Taz sings a bit of don mclean <a href="https://t.co/BRjv3XnphD">pic.twitter.com/BRjv3XnphD</a></p>&mdash; bossmoz (@BossMoz) <a href="https://twitter.com/BossMoz/status/1445787143960285198?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Gee, why wouldn’t people watch a show with Billy Gunn wrestling and Taz singing in 2021?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Billy Gunn is apparently an agent. Whose fucking matches is he putting together? Lol. Good on him for taking that schmuck’s money and getting his sons jobs though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What do you think is more likely? Warner cancels Rampage or do they move it to Wednesdays? Serious question. I’ve seen some people suggesting that it will just be moved until after Dynamite or Rhodes to the Top as part of an AEW block.

I can’t see RttT lasting more than one season and wouldn’t be surprised to see it cancelled before the end. I could see Rampage going 10-11 on Wednesdays after the hockey. But that would mean that AEW would either have to do it live every week or air something taped from the past week or taped earlier.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I guess there’s always the chance they could move it to streaming too.

Or make it a Saturday morning show, but that would always be taped.

[rez]

Noid

Hangman don't give a fuck what you have to say. You bring notta to the table. blahblahblah

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[Vastardikai]

The biggest problem with AEW is the problem TNA had: They have midcarders who think they're top guys with the pencil. And I'm not even talking about Cody.

How else do you bring in CM Punk and have him feud with midcarders? How else do you bring in Bryan Danielson and make him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs? How else do you bring in Christian, have him do nothing for a couple of months, than give him a cheap win over Omega before more or less making him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs?

You know what that causes? The TNA effect. Where you bring in named guys, pop a ceiling, when they get killed by your midcarders who think they're main eventers, you bring in new named people, pop a slightly lower ceiling. Rinse. Repeat.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Danielson wrestled the top guy in the company to a draw, beat the shit outta one of the bucks, was booked like wrecking machine again in the multi man match and is going to eventually get another banger with Omega. He’s looked an ass kicker from day 1.

And how do we know Punk isn’t calling his booking? I think if Punk walked in Wednesday and said he wants to start a program against Omega they’d do it.

[Lock Jaw]

Bryan doesn't look weak yet

CM Punk I am beginning to suspect isn't in it "seriously" and just signed for some big money and doesn't want to actually be "in the thick of it" like Bryan is. This is the only logical explanation I can come up with for signing Punk and doing nothing with him. Because he doesn't actually want to do anything.

[Lock Jaw]

Danielson didn't really "beat the s***" outta one of the Bucks.... he should have, but it was a "hard fought" and "competitive" match.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Punk is certainky doing things. Not high profile stuff outside of the Darby stuff. But it’s not surprising he’s working with young guys. He’ll get to a main event feud eventually. That scene is already packed and Punk wrestling the young guys has been good so far.

[James Steele]

Taking the absolute biggest break from wrestling that I ever have in my life. It was probably the thing I loved most. People don’t get it and say “wah, wah, wah — don’t watch then.” Well, it’s finally happening. Fuck wrestling.

Fuck AEW.
Fuck WWE.
Fuck the NWA.
Fuck New Japan.
Fuck classic wrestling.

It’s been easier than I suspect. I’ve checked the news a couple of times and listened to some Cornette YouTube clips (not his full show, I’m even off criticism of wrestling). I think I might be properly done soon.

Thanks for the memories, wrestling. You got me through some weird times growing up. But it’s time I realized you haven’t been good to me in a long, long time. Fuck off and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

The WWE surely gets a lot of the blame, but AEW was it for me. I just can’t. The self-indulgent disregard of there being any sort of art to this. The complete waste of potential. I went from being optimistic about wrestling to seeing so clearly that this is not going to be something a reasonable person can enjoy in record time.

So a special big fuck you to AEW for that. And also fuck TPWW for housing some of the most insecure and gormless little marks. I was right when I said WWE sucked way back, and I am right when I say AEW sucks right now.

I’m off to read some books or something.

I have taken the absolute biggest break from watching wrestling ever. Can’t remember the last show I actually watched. Probably highlights from SmackDown or something. I watched an individual clip from Dynamite, which was an awkward promo between Omega and Danielson where they kept saying “shit.”

Not very good anymore. And it doesn’t seem to be getting better.

And with all that, I’m still one of the most valuable posters here. Keeping the job squad in line and making sure people’s bad takes don’t get past without a scalding.

[Destor]

This is kind of what I said about Bryan (and Punk) before. They inherently lost something of what made them special in WWE because instead of being an undersized underdog who is "succeeding despite the company", they are now pretty much the same size as all the top guys and treated just like everyone else on the roster. (The treatment of "our wrestlers are all amazing")Danielson and Punk are nearly giants in AEW. thats my biggest gripe with their product. save a small few i dont believe anyone on the roster could win a bar fight with their mother's anal virginity on the line.

(punk least of all and them booking him like he's a tough guy out there working shoot holds is a fucking joke.)

[Destor]

punk should be working guys twice his size fighting from underneath. get his heart and never say die spirit over. then maybe you can add a mean streak to him and make him look credible again...

...but now? if you dont think the massive ppv buys on the ufc cards he was humiliated on dont give him stink (especially the 2nd bout where he lost to guy with no profights who was brought in specifically to job to him) youre a delusional mark

[Destor]

unless of course your only goal is to promote him to the IWC crowd. but if thats your goal you can skip paying punk, you already have that entire fanbase watching

[Lock Jaw]

I think he's more to the former rassling fans who liked him.... like me. Stopped watching rassling, don't care about UFC... yeah, I did see Punk get his ass kicked there, but that didn't stop me from initially being super excited to see him come back to rassling. I know the whole drill, suspension of disbelief.

AEW hasn't done much since his signing to keep me interested, besides from signing another entire guy who isn't Punk..... but
I told myself I'd give it until at least the next PPV....

[Destor]

of course signing punk is exciting. no one could question that. its a major event in the wrestling world. but this approach to his booking is very wwe. ingoring something so massive as his ufc run due to how embarrassing it is the most vince thing a company could possibly do and it benefits no one.

when you build punk up as a badass, with out him having to reestablish himself first, you bury whoever he's in there with. it lacks all credibility.

you're exactly right to say it violates the suspension of disbelief (even if dismissively.) its of critical importance.

the people who arent hanging off the end of punks dick do remember it. and while you may not want to explicitly dredge it up you can still acknowledge it implicitly. an angle, booked over a year or so, of asking the question in a variety of ways "does punk still got it?" is exactly what you need to organically build his credibility back, and this is the important part, without sacrificing that talent youre desperately trying to establish to him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Danielson didn't really "beat the s***" outta one of the Bucks.... he should have, but it was a "hard fought" and "competitive" match.

Booking psychology-wise, I do wonder about the subconscious detriments doing stuff like Bryan and Nick Jackson has on fans. Bryan’s a great wrestler, but do honest to god fans of him, specifically his personality, want to see him go to a B-tier promotion to beat up guys smaller than him? It doesn’t feel rewarding as a story to me.

It made total sense in a visual way for Bryan to kick the shit out of Nick Jackson too. But doesn’t that say something about why Nick Jackson is there? At that level? And why he doesn’t get the shit kicked out of him every week?

It’s just one of those things like wrestlers pretending the camera isn’t there, or their music hitting for run-ins, or their forced verbiage that adds to this impression that just shutters immersion.

A lot of people were frothing over that match. And in terms of what was done — the execution of the moves and such — I’m sure it was. But I think a lot of internet fans don’t have their finger on the pulse of what the average fan wants as much as they all think they do.


Bryan doesn't look weak yet

CM Punk I am beginning to suspect isn't in it "seriously" and just signed for some big money and doesn't want to actually be "in the thick of it" like Bryan is. This is the only logical explanation I can come up with for signing Punk and doing nothing with him. Because he doesn't actually want to do anything.

Maybe it’s his own stuff, but it could also just be the booking. He’s over as a face, so you wouldn’t turn him heel yet. But you also don’t need him the World Title picture, so you have him slumming it with guys underneath.

I think there’s a way to make a guy you aren’t pushing into the main events interesting, and without him smiling “I’m just happy to be here” all the time. But this booking is not known for its nuance.

punk should be working guys twice his size fighting from underneath. get his heart and never say die spirit over. then maybe you can add a mean streak to him and make him look credible again...

...but now? if you dont think the massive ppv buys on the ufc cards he was humiliated on dont give him stink (especially the 2nd bout where he lost to guy with no profights who was brought in specifically to job to him) youre a delusional mark

You know what would have been funny? If he called out Daniel Garcia for a match on Rampage, and true to form, the jobber totally owned Punk.

I agree that the UFC stuff would affect him way more than most wrestling fans realize. There’s a certain type of fan that can ignore it. There’s another type that can’t. But even if you think you can, the more he kind of just floats around makes you think more and more about it.

Punk’s always had a hype vs. reality problem too. He had this in WWE. He makes a big splash raising a stink about how great he is, or implies how great wrestling is going to be with him in a top spot. Then he gets the chance and...what changes? And I’m not even really saying that as a knock on the guy. He is talented as fuck.

unless of course your only goal is to promote him to the IWC crowd. but if thats your goal you can skip paying punk, you already have that entire fanbase watching

So much of what this company does seems to be to further endear themselves to an audience they don’t have to endear themselves to.

[Destor]

does darby allen benifit from doing a favor for the guy last seen getting toyed with for 3 rounds by a fighter with no pro wins and is so underwhelming that even in vctory in front of a very large buyrate cant get booked for his second profight anywhere on planet earth?

we know, for a complete fact, that cm punk could get rolled over by any random street thug 100% of the time. he was completely out wrestled, specifically, the entire fight. from a fighter his size.

most of the audience is larger than punk. mos of the audience could wax punks ass in their own minds. probably in actuality as well even. but the mind is the only thing that matters. and if you remove the IWC and their roughly 1 million viewship everyone knows this as fact

if youre bringing punk in the goal has to be to bring in eyeballs. is it unreasonable to address this elephant? does anyone benifit from ignoring it?

[Destor]

and for the love of god he should NEVER use a shoot hold. it completely implodes immersion

[Mr. Nerfect]

does darby allen benifit from doing a favor for the guy last seen getting toyed with for 3 rounds by a fighter with no pro wins and is so underwhelming that even in vctory in front of a very large buyrate cant get booked for his second profight anywhere on planet earth?

we know, for a complete fact, that cm punk could get rolled over by any random street thug 100% of the time. he was completely out wrestled, specifically, the entire fight. from a fighter his size.

most of the audience is larger than punk. mos of the audience could wax punks ass in their own minds. probably in actuality as well even. but the mind is the only thing that matters. and if you remove the IWC and their roughly 1 million viewship everyone knows this as fact

if youre bringing punk in the goal has to be to bring in eyeballs. is it unreasonable to address this elephant? does anyone benifit from ignoring it?

This is cogent reasoning, but to play devil’s advocate — do they get anything out of addressing it either? I think, in their minds, they’ve done the “Does Punk still have it?” thing, which the Darby match was probably intended to be.

Does bringing up he got his ass kicked in the UFC cool him off to even that crowd as well as to the people who would already be cold on him anyway.

I don’t think his film career has helped him either. He did this movie where he got ghost cum on his face or something. I’ve heard him spoken of as a shitty actor, lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

and for the love of god he should NEVER use a shoot hold. it completely implodes immersion

That’s like inviting people to remember, lol.

[Destor]

i say unquestionably yes.

again not explicitly. you have him work from underneath in his matches. taking densely one sided heats with the hope spots being fighting from the bottom. very short hope spots, very brief comebacks. maybe some flash pins. tons of nearfalls. establish hlw hard it is to keep him down. this plays into what his defenders chirp when you bring up his ufc run. "he showed so much heart." theyve been selling you this angle themselves for years.

you don't want to put him under every night but you dont want him looking like he's better either. and certainly not have him running around puffing his chest talking about how he's gonna beat people up.

you want him desperately fighting like his life depends on it and preferably guys who are larger than him. you structure his matches like an 80s midsouth baby. the drama should be in the struggle.

if you, perhaps wisely, dont want to mention mma (and again perhaps you shouldnt) you simply build the angle around his long absence and his age. can i still keep up? this is a tried and true angle that has worked for 70 years.

the angle is he needs to prove he's the best in the world. to himself.

[Destor]

and the drama is maybe he's not.

[Destor]

(and culminates in some major baptismal event where he slays a dragon and from there we begin anew)

[Destor]

a kings road approach could also translate well to establish incremental growth

[Destor]

"finding himself again through the adversity"

[xrodmuc316]

if youre bringing punk in the goal has to be to bring in eyeballs. is it unreasonable to address this elephant? does anyone benifit from ignoring it?

Absolutely nobody does, and they look ever worse when they have an entire stable about how MMA fighters are better than the AEW roster. They are clearly trying to make fans think Dan Lambert is shooting, but he doesnt bring up the one thing that is concrete proof that real fighters are better than fake tough guys like CM Punk?

And the happy to be here stuff he is doing is bullshit too. This dude swore up and down he would NEVER return to pro wrestling. And the argument of "oh he didnt know there would be AEW" when he said it is also a bad counterpoint.

He could have went to NJPW, Impact, ROH, or anywhere else for 5 years before AEW. He could have went to AEW at the start. He didnt, he turned them down multiple times, dismissed them and even bjried them a few times. The reason, he wanted to go back to WWE. He choose to show up on a talk show for WWE, hoping it would lead to an offer to return. His agent asked, Vince had no interest.

Fast forward a year, he had his agent ask again, no interest from WWE again. Finally he accepted it, and took Tony Khan's money.

He failed at MMA, he failed on reality TV, he failed at being an actor, he failed at being a talk show host, he failed at being a comic book, writer, and he failed at crawling back to Vince.

Even if we want to forget about all of that, this guy pretended he was above pro wrestling for 7 years. He ignored fans who wanted him to return for 7 years. Now we are just supposed to believe he really loves pro wrestling and he is happy to be there? No, he went to AEW as a last resort, and despite all the times he spoke poorly about AEW and how they do business, he was lucky enough that the owner is such a mark that he could still work him for a big money deal.

It has been like 6 weeks and Rampage ratings are already a few hundred thousand lower than they were BEFORE he returned. I use Rampage because it is where he debuted, and it is where he has had his tv matches.

I think people were willing to watch his return, but aside from the "lets see his return", most people are not able to have continued interest because of his complete lack of credibility.

[Mr. Nerfect]

i say unquestionably yes.

again not explicitly. you have him work from underneath in his matches. taking densely one sided heats with the hope spots being fighting from the bottom. very short hope spots, very brief comebacks. maybe some flash pins. tons of nearfalls. establish hlw hard it is to keep him down. this plays into what his defenders chirp when you bring up his ufc run. "he showed so much heart." theyve been selling you this angle themselves for years.

you don't want to put him under every night but you dont want him looking like he's better either. and certainly not have him running around puffing his chest talking about how he's gonna beat people up.

you want him desperately fighting like his life depends on it and preferably guys who are larger than him. you structure his matches like an 80s midsouth baby. the drama should be in the struggle.

if you, perhaps wisely, dont want to mention mma (and again perhaps you shouldnt) you simply build the angle around his long absence and his age. can i still keep up? this is a tried and true angle that has worked for 70 years.

the angle is he needs to prove he's the best in the world. to himself.

That’s good stuff. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Absolutely nobody does, and they look ever worse when they have an entire stable about how MMA fighters are better than the AEW roster. They are clearly trying to make fans think Dan Lambert is shooting, but he doesnt bring up the one thing that is concrete proof that real fighters are better than fake tough guys like CM Punk?

And the happy to be here stuff he is doing is bullshit too. This dude swore up and down he would NEVER return to pro wrestling. And the argument of "oh he didnt know there would be AEW" when he said it is also a bad counterpoint.

He could have went to NJPW, Impact, ROH, or anywhere else for 5 years before AEW. He could have went to AEW at the start. He didnt, he turned them down multiple times, dismissed them and even bjried them a few times. The reason, he wanted to go back to WWE. He choose to show up on a talk show for WWE, hoping it would lead to an offer to return. His agent asked, Vince had no interest.

Fast forward a year, he had his agent ask again, no interest from WWE again. Finally he accepted it, and took Tony Khan's money.

He failed at MMA, he failed on reality TV, he failed at being an actor, he failed at being a talk show host, he failed at being a comic book, writer, and he failed at crawling back to Vince.

Even if we want to forget about all of that, this guy pretended he was above pro wrestling for 7 years. He ignored fans who wanted him to return for 7 years. Now we are just supposed to believe he really loves pro wrestling and he is happy to be there? No, he went to AEW as a last resort, and despite all the times he spoke poorly about AEW and how they do business, he was lucky enough that the owner is such a mark that he could still work him for a big money deal.

It has been like 6 weeks and Rampage ratings are already a few hundred thousand lower than they were BEFORE he returned. I use Rampage because it is where he debuted, and it is where he has had his tv matches.

I think people were willing to watch his return, but aside from the "lets see his return", most people are not able to have continued interest because of his complete lack of credibility.

I’ve got no problem with CM Punk returning to wrestling when the timing is right for him and his bank account. It is true that he turned them down, but I put that on them.

My one of my biggest pet peeves in wrestling is when wrestling promotions make a deal out of other combat sports being better than they are. The wrestlers are supposed to be legit. Got no problem with MMA stars stepping into the wrestling world, but it should be presented like they are just changing disciplines, not coming into a world where they are automatically going to kick everyone’s ass, because real fighter > pro-wrestler.

If Dan Lambert wants to do a Jim Cornette impression, he should be doing heel manager Jim Cornette, not podcast critic Jim Cornette.

[slik]

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[Evil Vito]

They’re doing a special hour-long Buy In at 9 PM on YouTube ahead of Rampage. The two matches:

Lee Moriarty vs Bobby Fish, and....

....BRYAN DANIELSON VS MINORU FUCKING SUZUKI :eek:

[Lock Jaw]

Wow, Daniel Bryan already being demoted to YouTube

R.I.P.

[ClockShot]

They’re doing a special hour-long Buy In at 9 PM on YouTube ahead of Rampage. The two matches:

Lee Moriarty vs Bobby Fish, and....

....BRYAN DANIELSON VS MINORU FUCKING SUZUKI :eek:

Quite surprised Suzuki is hanging around the U.S. still.

Figured he'd be back in Japan with G1 just about to wrap up.

[#1-norm-fan]

Lol. I remember when Punk did his press conference after his debut and someone asked if he would wrestle on the YouTube show and Tony just widened his eyes and shook his head no.

I guess it’s a good idea to throw a big match on YouTube for more people to see occasionally though.

[ron the dial]

Quite surprised Suzuki is hanging around the U.S. still.

Figured he'd be back in Japan with G1 just about to wrap up.
he's been doing a bunch of indies and having a great time from what i've seen. makes sense if it's kind of a scouting trip, too.

[fundiddle]

Lol. I remember when Punk did his press conference after his debut and someone asked if he would wrestle on the YouTube show and Tony just widened his eyes and shook his head no.

more people will watch this youtube show than the one they've been doing. i would respond that way too at the thought of punk wrestling on dark

[xrodmuc316]

Forget the Youtube show, I remember Punk saying he wanted to work with all these new young guys, like Matt "Evan Bourne" Sydal, on his 4th match in :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t want to hear about how this promotion doesn’t hot-shot. Way to give away a big New Japan match too. It’ll do them no good. The bottom is falling out of this thing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, TK has done another embarrassing interview where he’s implied the WWE has come after him, he won a “war” and he tried to get “Watch Your Wrestling” over as a thing (or “WYW”). Holy desperate.

Oh, he also said he “chose” the Rampage time slot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

All this programming is hurting everyone. That and the quality of it, but the sheer amount of time you have to fill dilutes the impact of even the stuff that can be argued to work. Rampage, Elevation, Dark, Rhodes to the Top, ffs it’s too much. How many hours of content is that a week? This has been a WWE problem too, obviously.

It’s not coincidence there is less interest in wrestling as there is more wrestling available.

[XL]

The ratings (albeit an archaic and flawed system) suggest this is the case.

[Lock Jaw]

Ain't nobody watching Elevation/Dark except the real die hards who watch everything anyways. They are definitely not being made to attract new eyes or attention.

[Evil Vito]

Exactly. They are bonus pre-show matches for the live Dynamite crowds, or people who want something else to do at Universal. During 2020, it was a chance to give back to the wrestling community by getting a shitload of out of work indy wrestlers a payday at a time that indies weren't running.

Those shows have their own angles going on but very little, if any, of it carries into the main two shows. It's for the diehards and new fans aren't expected to be watching it.

[slik]

TK announced Hangman vs Omega set for Full Gear, Omega finally goes to lose the AEW title

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ain't nobody watching Elevation/Dark except the real die hards who watch everything anyways. They are definitely not being made to attract new eyes or attention.

Of course not, but generating unimportant content isn’t exactly good for manufacturing an urgent image for yourself.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

TK announced Hangman vs Omega set for Full Gear, Omega finally goes to lose the AEW title

Fuck yes! Post PPV dynamite I believe is in Virginia. It’s time for a new sheriff in AEW town.

[Triple A]

Wish AEW was on tonight......

[Lock Jaw]

It's Wednesday.... isn't it on?

[mike adamle]

I think they need to keep Omega as champ. Hangman has like zero momentum

[Triple A]

It's Wednesday.... isn't it on?

No it's on Saturday this week and next week cause of the NHL on TNT...

[Sepholio]

I forgot it wasn't on tonight and was disappointed by a hockey game I have no interest in appearing on my TV.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's Wednesday.... isn't it on?

It got bumped off Wednesdays for a show with a lower but more desirable demo.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think they need to keep Omega as champ. Hangman has like zero momentum

Good thing they have an entire month for Hangman to pick up steam after coming back to a huge reaction and getting a huge win. He’s over as fuck with their audience and the story is still there. They shouldn’t have an issue building him back up and making the program interesting. And we’ll get cocky arrogant Omega bragging that Paige can’t beat him because he’s pinned him twice in the last year in two of the biggest matches Paige has had since being forced back into singles competition.

[Triple A]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny vs Hangman<br><br>Bryan vs Mox<br><br>Inner Circle vs American Top Team<br><br>MJF vs Darby<br><br>Punk vs Wardlow<br><br>Britt vs ???<br><br>Thunder Rosa vs Jade Cargill<br><br>Christian vs Cole<br><br>Young Bucks vs Jurassic Express<br><br>Cody vs Malakai Black OR Andrade OR Miro<br><br>Luchas vs &quot;PTA&quot;</p>&mdash; HugoNexxion (@Hugo_Nexxion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Hugo_Nexxion/status/1448406381384671234?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Damian Rey 2.0]

That’s a stacked card. Rosa v Jade is prob the tbs title final. Idk how they get to Mox v Danielson but I’ll watch it. Punk v Wardlow should be fun. Hangman gonna get his moment after 2+ years. Can’t wait.

[Triple A]

Idk how they get to Mox v Danielson but I’ll watch it.

World Title Eliminator tournament final maybe?

Punk vs. Wardlow would be cool if it means MJF is involved, feuding with Punk

[Damian Rey 2.0]

World Title Eliminator tournament final maybe?

Punk vs. Wardlow would be cool if it means MJF is involved, feuding with Punk

Ohhh that’sa good point. You’re probably right. Interesting to see if they run hangman v Danielson and if Danielson goes over or not. And to see who gets the majority of the crowd on their side. I could see Paige having a short run to keep his falling short story continuing.

Wardlow v Punk transitioning into Punk v MJF would be great. That would be a great program for both guys and if I had to choose someone to get Punk’s first loss MJF would definitely be on the short list.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny vs Hangman<br><br>Bryan vs Mox<br><br>Inner Circle vs American Top Team<br><br>MJF vs Darby<br><br>Punk vs Wardlow<br><br>Britt vs ???<br><br>Thunder Rosa vs Jade Cargill<br><br>Christian vs Cole<br><br>Young Bucks vs Jurassic Express<br><br>Cody vs Malakai Black OR Andrade OR Miro<br><br>Luchas vs &quot;PTA&quot;</p>&mdash; HugoNexxion (@Hugo_Nexxion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Hugo_Nexxion/status/1448406381384671234?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LOL, this picture perfectly captures why Shad Khan gives Tony all this money to keep him occupied and away from having any responsibility in the real businesses.

You just KNOW Tony was bugging the players like an annoying 10 year old. "Oh hey Laviska, that's a cool name. You should come on Dynamite, we can call you Lavish Laviska!" "Whoa Myles Jack, you are actually Jacked! Its a Pun and you are so awesome, hey what do you think of my booking sheet?" "Carlos Hyde, that is a name that screams power! Its almost as powerful as Miro!"

[Tom Guycott]

Ain't nobody watching Elevation/Dark except the real die hards who watch everything anyways. They are definitely not being made to attract new eyes or attention.

Elevation/Dark is the new Jakked/Metal. You heard it here first! :MTV News sounder:

[Vastardikai]

I want to thank AEW for one thing more than anything else.

I used to think that, if given the chance to see him, the average fan would care about Minoru Suzuki.

Evidence has proven that to be false. And I say that as a huge Suzuki fan. To be fair, it's not like AEW has given anyone much of a reason to care. Much like everyone else in AEW, if you didn't know who he was, you won't find out.

[Lock Jaw]

I was "intrigued" when he first showed up, because he was presented as a "tough guy" and did have a "tough guy look"..... but then they hot-shotted the match against Moxley right away instead of building it up.... I did enjoy the match for what it was....

But then after Mox won they made Suzuki into a whiny "l'il b****" who was complaining about his song getting cut off and about the hometown advantage..... and it became a weird thing where they were still trying to sell him as a badass tough guy but presenting him as a whining complainer.....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I want to thank AEW for one thing more than anything else.

I used to think that, if given the chance to see him, the average fan would care about Minoru Suzuki.

Evidence has proven that to be false. And I say that as a huge Suzuki fan. To be fair, it's not like AEW has given anyone much of a reason to care. Much like everyone else in AEW, if you didn't know who he was, you won't find out.

Yeah, it’s been a huge myth busted. He’s looked too giddy to be there, and he’s surprisingly small, or framed to be small in this environment. And the matches have reportedly been pretty bad.

The New Japan team are brilliant at covering that shit up. And it should also be noted they are also niche as fuck, even in Japan.

[Mr3Maker]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny vs Hangman<br><br>Bryan vs Mox<br><br>Inner Circle vs American Top Team<br><br>MJF vs Darby<br><br>Punk vs Wardlow<br><br>Britt vs ???<br><br>Thunder Rosa vs Jade Cargill<br><br>Christian vs Cole<br><br>Young Bucks vs Jurassic Express<br><br>Cody vs Malakai Black OR Andrade OR Miro<br><br>Luchas vs &quot;PTA&quot;</p>&mdash; HugoNexxion (@Hugo_Nexxion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Hugo_Nexxion/status/1448406381384671234?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He's trolling EVERYONE.

[#1-norm-fan]

Feel like Lance Archer should be getting pushed more. Thought he was bland as hell in WWE but everything I’ve seen from him in AEW has made me want to see him in the main event. He’s got a good old school look, size, personality, he can go in the ring. He should be in a better spot.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Well, he's big in Japan. So, he is always going to have divided attention.

[xrodmuc316]

He's trolling EVERYONE.

LOL there is ZERO chance he did that on purpose.

[Triple A]

Very careless......... Khan seems to be "erratic" lately tbh...

[Mr. Nerfect]

TK has also responded to SmackDown going commercial free in their last half-hour by saying he’s got more money than they do, so he can do it longer.

His dad has more money than they do, but he’s not able to access it all for the purposes of wrestling. Nor does WWE need to continuously go commercial free to bury them. He’s radiated the most insecure energy right now.

[Vastardikai]

Yeah, it’s been a huge myth busted. He’s looked too giddy to be there, and he’s surprisingly small, or framed to be small in this environment. And the matches have reportedly been pretty bad.

The New Japan team are brilliant at covering that shit up. And it should also be noted they are also niche as fuck, even in Japan.

I feel like, if this were WWE, they would have made his arrival matter. Like, tell us who he is and why he is important. Have contracted talent who are fans and who have wrestled him put him over. And maybe put him against someone who isn't Jon "I could be a big star in a mainstream wrestling environment, but I'd rather take a light tube up my ass in some barn" Moxley. But that would just "insult the fans intelligence." You know, fans who think Suzuki is a bigger star than the Rock (and that ridiculous, even as a Suzuki fan).

[Evil Vito]

Don't really see why people get worked up over everything Tony Khan does.

I think he's being very careful about what he's saying too. He's not saying, "we're going to beat WWE in the ratings", or "we're going to run them out of business" like Eric Bischoff would have. He's just saying "if you look at what they're doing, then look at us, you know we'll have the better show on Friday" - and that's hard to reasonably argue against, and also means there's no objective measure by which he could be said to have failed at that aim.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I feel like, if this were WWE, they would have made his arrival matter. Like, tell us who he is and why he is important. Have contracted talent who are fans and who have wrestled him put him over. And maybe put him against someone who isn't Jon "I could be a big star in a mainstream wrestling environment, but I'd rather take a light tube up my ass in some barn" Moxley. But that would just "insult the fans intelligence." You know, fans who think Suzuki is a bigger star than the Rock (and that ridiculous, even as a Suzuki fan).

If you didn’t know who Suzuki was (most people), then you still don’t really now. He’s a small Japanese dude that the company made a big deal about without him winning a single thing who loves his own entrance music. They assume knowledge that just cannot possibly be there in their audience, which is a huge, huge mistake in television.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don't really see why people get worked up over everything Tony Khan does.

I think he's being very careful about what he's saying too. He's not saying, "we're going to beat WWE in the ratings", or "we're going to run them out of business" like Eric Bischoff would have. He's just saying "if you look at what they're doing, then look at us, you know we'll have the better show on Friday" - and that's hard to reasonably argue against, and also means there's no objective measure by which he could be said to have failed at that aim.

Because he’s the spokesperson for the company. He is also the promoter and booker, so it lends insight into the direction of things there.

I don’t think he’s careful at all. Eric Bischoff was at least a stone’s throw away from achieving what he said he would. TK is still trying to deliver on wins and losses mattering.

He said he’s looking forward to “beating” SmackDown. Now, that will change from meaning ratings to demo to AEW fan poll approval rating, but he’s picking fights that most acknowledge have made him look pretty silly — or will when he doesn’t deliver.

Perception is REALLY important. That’s why fans care about things like ratings. They help quantify a promotion’s effectiveness and success. Promotions that can’t hit their goals are going to have a harder time getting people hyped than one that does, and promoting is all about delivering on hype.

He’s setting up “LolAEW” jokes. They might take a different form, but if AEW gets slaughtered on Friday, people are going to take pause.

[drave]

Who's the larger fanbase, hardcore or casual fan?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Who's the larger fanbase, hardcore or casual fan?

Easily casual. Hardcores are the ones being pandered to and buying tickets though (in my opinion). A lot of casuals I know will not go to live events anymore. But that’s just anecdotal. You can tell by even the WWE crowds though.

I think there’s shades of hardcore fan though. For example, there are people who will pop for an act because they’re from New Japan, but they’ve never watched New Japan.

But there are way more people with an interest in wrestling who just do not have time for this shit (either AEW or WWE).

[drave]

I would say "casual" fans don't care what ratings are, or how to even read them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would say "casual" fans don't care what ratings are, or how to even read them.

They’re different arguments. Casual fans don’t even care or know about what AEW is.

[Noid]

That's untrue. Casual wrestling fans who get their fill from Twitter and YouTube, do watch, follow or keep up with AEW.

[Destor]

if you think noid is a casual you might be an idiot

[xrodmuc316]

TK has also responded to SmackDown going commercial free in their last half-hour by saying he’s got more money than they do, so he can do it longer.

His dad has more money than they do, but he’s not able to access it all for the purposes of wrestling. Nor does WWE need to continuously go commercial free to bury them. He’s radiated the most insecure energy right now.

He is an idiot. His FATHER has a larger net worth than Vince, but that is based on all his assets. Until he sells the Jaguars, that is $2.8 Billion that is not available to his stupid manchild son. Same for the bumper business or his soccer team.

Vince on the other hand doesnt just have his own net worth, WWE as a publicly traded company itself is valued at $4.53 Billion. Unlike Tony who has to use his daddy's money, WWE can use its actual business to run said business.

Again, Tony Khan is an idiot. He is 40 and acts like a moody teenager. The fact he said what he said proves he has no idea how businesses actually work, and would bankrupt his company if Shad decided to stop wasting his money.

AEW has grown into a much more entertaining TV show, but aside from the actual product, everything they do or say outside the hours they are on tv is embarrassing.

[Noid]

Ugh, that Tony Khan is such an idiot :roll: Such a moody bitch too. Sucking on daddy's tit for money. So embarrassing.

[Fignuts]

I literally thought Tony Khan was in his late 20's at most, given how he carries himself, and behaves on social media.

[xrodmuc316]

Ugh, that Tony Khan is such an idiot :roll: Such a moody bitch too. Sucking on daddy's tit for money. So embarrassing.

I know I know, like he produces 3 hours of good TV a week so we should just give him a pass on the other 165 hours he is behaving like a spoiled petulant child.

[Sepholio]

Can't wait for WWE to bring back the illegitimate child of Vince McMahon angle and reveal that his real missing son is Tony Khan.

[xrodmuc316]

Can't wait for WWE to bring back the illegitimate child of Vince McMahon angle and reveal that his real missing son is Tony Khan.

We dont see Vince much outside the wrestling bubble, but from what we have seen over the years, he certainly is really creepy and weird too. :rofl:

[Noid]

I know I know, like he produces 3 hours of good TV a week so we should just give him a pass on the other 165 hours he is behaving like a spoiled petulant child.

Such a spoiled petulant child...probably a virgin too. Whining about muh demos and muh daddys jaguars. Wah wah Vinnie mac is poopy

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the sock account tantrums kind of prove a point.

[Destor]

certainly not the one he thinks he's making

[James Steele]

I think the sock account tantrums kind of prove a point.

That you are a parody yourself?

[Noid]

certainly not the one he thinks he's making

Good ol' Destor and his salt of the earth ways, thinks he has it all figured out. Has strong opinions on his kids while being a drunkard and a distant father. Comical.

[Noid]

I think the sock account tantrums kind of prove a point.

xrod's posting style is obnoxious and boring?

[Fignuts]

Good ol' Destor and his salt of the earth ways, thinks he has it all figured out. Has strong opinions on his kids while being a drunkard and a distant father. Comical.

Classy.

[xrodmuc316]

xrod's posting style is obnoxious and boring?

Thats funny, nobody complains about my posting style until I take a step back from Tony Khan's dick, then i'm obnoxious and boring. Got it

[Noid]

Thats funny, nobody complains about my posting style until I take a step back from Tony Khan's dick, then i'm obnoxious and boring. Got it

Nah, I couldn't care less about Tony. I'm just peeved by your dull posting style. It's the same old regurgitated shit. Has zero value and doesn't add to the discussion.

[xrodmuc316]

Nah, I couldn't care less about Tony. I'm just peeved by your dull posting style. It's the same old regurgitated shit. Has zero value and doesn't add to the discussion.

Sorry bro, we dont all have time to run multiple accounts to keep things fresh and exciting.

[Noid]

Sorry bro, we dont all have time to run multiple accounts to keep things fresh and exciting.

Eh, your ammo is to stir shit and feed off the reaction. None of your takes are remotely interesting.

Mr. Nerfect, while frustrated, is more palatable because he cares and often makes decent arguments in his favor.

[Fignuts]

Eh, your ammo is to stir shit and feed off the reaction. None of your takes are remotely interesting.




Which is different from this sock account of yours how?

[ron the dial]

I'll take xrod any day he's way more chill

[Fignuts]

xrod just likes to have fun. He's just happy to be here.

[Noid]

Which is different from this sock account of yours how?

Ah yes, two wrongs don't make a yet. During the lifespan of this account, I've given in to my most heinous of tendencies which were motivated by a poster's departure. More recently, I've used it to find common ground while still calling out blokes when I see fit. I will not be defending my past transgressions.

[Fignuts]

Get a load a' Cactus Jack over here

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nah, I couldn't care less about Tony. I'm just peeved by your dull posting style. It's the same old regurgitated shit. Has zero value and doesn't add to the discussion.

This is you describing your main account.

[Destor]

Classy.its not even a good dig since neither of those things apply to me.

[Noid]

This is you describing your main account.

That's funny because the main account has been on your "ignore list" for quite a while now.

[Noid]

It's quite evident that this account ran its course mere minutes after its inception. But I kept chugging on, probably out of anger and some pride. It's not adding to the conversation since posters have already expressed how they feel about certain individuals. Over time, I've become more accepting of polarizing viewpoints since some have merit. They just want to feel special or believe that they can see what others can't. It's a coping mechanism to associate worth with what they're doing here. This account probably falls in a similar category. Sadly, it doesn't serve a purpose anymore.

https://c.tenor.com/aOTTMTRppIwAAAAC/sarcastic-sarcasm.gif

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's funny because the main account has been on your "ignore list" for quite a while now.

And why do you think that is?

[Evil Vito]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.

[James Steele]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.

May I recommend you watch the clip of Triple H breaking JR's arm and any of his heel run from 99-2001 to bring your spirits back up?

[GD]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.

I apologize for my role in it.

I'm really looking forward to all the wrestling tonight. Especially Bryan Danielson versus Minoru Suzuki on the Buy-in. Smackdown looks promising as well.

[Evil Vito]

May I recommend you watch the clip of Triple H breaking JR's arm and any of his heel run from 99-2001 to bring your spirits back up?

Slipping the bosses daughter a roofie always brings my spirits up :y:

[James Steele]

Slipping the bosses daughter a roofie always brings my spirits up :y:

My $1,000,000 question on that was whether or not Mae Young was an accomplice based on the segments from her bachelorette party. Untapped storyline there.

[Big Poppa Pauly]

Guessing the 'Buy In' show will be available after it airs, as it's a 2am UK start time?

[Triple A]

AEW usually keeps their live streams up on YouTube after they air, so it should still be on their YouTube channel unless they purposefully remove it for some reason

[Mr. Nerfect]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.

And you contribute to discussion how? You’re one of the worst offenders when it comes to petty little dogpiles against people who don’t like what you like. What sort of positivity do you genuinely think you bring?

[drave]

It's a trap

[Triple A]

Evil Vito rules imo

[GD]

Agreed. Vito's awesome.

[xrodmuc316]

xrod just likes to have fun. He's just happy to be here.

So I'm the CM Punk of TPWW? :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vito’s fine when you’re saying stuff he likes. When you don’t like something he likes he becomes petulant and just makes stuff up. It’s very weird to hear him talking about negative energy like he’s a source of positivity.

[Triple A]

shut up ,

[Mr. Nerfect]

shut up ,

That’s some funky negative energy coming from you.

[xrodmuc316]

"There’s no bigger star in all of pro wrestling right now than CM Punk. And I’m really excited about his match with Matt Sydal tonight.” ~ Tony Khan...

Just burying his entire roster for a guy that drew 500,000 viewers for his last match :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I still don’t put the primary blame on Punk himself. I think the criticisms are valid. That people are willing to cut a bad actor/failed MMA fighter slack might be my own misgiving there. But I think it’s still more the show around him.

If you like CM Punk, you probably like that he takes his craft pretty seriously and makes his performances as realistic as possible (sloppy MMA shit aside). I don’t know how this is congruent with a product that presents a grudge feud between Matt Hardy and Orange Cassidy. You’ve got the piss-take existing alongside the actual thing.

I don’t even think he needs to be in feuds just yet or anything. The show should just be meatier around him. I think a lot of the drop-off AEW is experiencing is because people get lured in by the potential for good, then are let down. It can be even more jarring if a show is all “what if” potential. Now they have the stars but don’t really know what to do with them.

But yeah, Tony crowing about how big a star he is instead of SHOWING people what a star he is doesn’t do anyone any favors.

[xrodmuc316]

YOOOOOOOO now Tony Khan is burying Ted Turner lol. This dude is spiraling.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve never met Ted Turner. It’s very possible Ted Turner is smarter than me, but he didn’t know 1% of what I know about professional wrestling or WCW would still be on TNT/TBS. <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AEW</a> is here to stay, watch <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWRampage?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWRampage</a> LIVE tonight on TNT or WatchTNT app on your phone or any device <a href="https://t.co/eYLCzCiMiQ">https://t.co/eYLCzCiMiQ</a></p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1449066298286264320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[screech]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.

Muting people helps but a lot of the time their dumb shit gets quoted anyway.

[Mr. Nerfect]

YOOOOOOOO now Tony Khan is burying Ted Turner lol. This dude is spiraling.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve never met Ted Turner. It’s very possible Ted Turner is smarter than me, but he didn’t know 1% of what I know about professional wrestling or WCW would still be on TNT/TBS. <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AEW</a> is here to stay, watch <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWRampage?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWRampage</a> LIVE tonight on TNT or WatchTNT app on your phone or any device <a href="https://t.co/eYLCzCiMiQ">https://t.co/eYLCzCiMiQ</a></p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1449066298286264320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Okay, it’s now crossed over to the point where this has to be shtick. He has to know why this is a ridiculous thing to say. I don’t see the benefit though. My guess is that he’s talked up a game so long, said some things that if taken seriously could bite him/AEW, so he’s doing a Jericho where he just masks this by pretending it’s an intentional work.

I guess it could be some misguided (in my opinion) marketing strategy to try and galvanize AEW fans into some sort of weird frenzy? Like, “We don’t give a fuck! Rah! Look at us! Push back reality!” Or he’s just actually cracking and having too many drinks before he posts.

I don’t understand why Tony Khan is front and center of all this promotion. He’s not an active on-air personality all the time, but he’s more Dixie than Carter at this point.

[Destor]

This board is hitting my last nerve. The live show threads are largely fun but the rest of the time it's just unbearable cesspool of negative energy. Nobody is really even having a discussion - just endless arguing among people whose positions are entrenched. Not worth it.i take offense to this. i may not like what you like but i always try to engage in the highest resolution discussion thats available

[#1-norm-fan]

Destor, if I can just throw this out...

I remember seeing you post something along the lines of “If you think Noid is a casual fan, you might be an idiot.” I agree 100%. But I also thought “There’s probably a better way to say that that would spark conversation. No one wants to converse with that.” And that’s not coming from a place of sensitivity. I think we should soften our words until someone tries to arrogantly make a bad point. THEN let’s call them a retard and match their negative energy.

[Destor]

no you right. i wad def noy trying to converse wirh guru daves sock

[Destor]

you right tho

[#1-norm-fan]

Oh, I didn’t realze that was a direct knock on noid. Maybe it was warranted then. I don’t know.

[#1-norm-fan]

You should be more active in the watch-along thread though. Even if you can’t make the live shows. This idea was born for your kind.

[Destor]

i can never manage to be free when its "live" but i love the era...i should try for next week

[Sepholio]

Oh after that awful post about from "Noid" about Destor that is quoted at the top of the last page I would have to say it was absolutely warranted. In fact Destors response was tame af in comparison.

[Sepholio]

Would love to have you there Destor. It's a really good time. Wish we'd have been doing this for years and that I would have joined in sooner. Probably the best time I've had at TPWW in my 2 decades here.

[Destor]

i dont even know what he meant by it. i think he has me confused with someone else

[Destor]

im going to try and be free next thursday night though


TRY its hard for me to garuntee anything

[Bad News Gertner]

Not gonna lie, Destor has been my #1 "want" for our live watches.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Destor, if I can just throw this out...

I remember seeing you post something along the lines of “If you think Noid is a casual fan, you might be an idiot.” I agree 100%. But I also thought “There’s probably a better way to say that that would spark conversation. No one wants to converse with that.” And that’s not coming from a place of sensitivity. I think we should soften our words until someone tries to arrogantly make a bad point. THEN let’s call them a retard and match their negative energy.

It got what it deserved. Slide back on that iceberg, pal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Destor and Gertner are the reasons to come to this board. No one else says anything worth hearing.

[#1-norm-fan]

It got what it deserved. Slide back on that iceberg, pal.

Noid. You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are. Either work on that or tone down the smugness. The combination is gross. You are gross.

[#1-norm-fan]

Not gonna lie, Destor has been my #1 "want" for our live watches.

Still working on a Triple A appearance. Seph got my hopes up last week. I have yet to forgive him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid. You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are. Either work on that or tone down the smugness. The combination is gross. You are gross.

Oh, the fucking irony.

[Destor]

i love you both. please make up

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/WWERomanReigns?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWERomanReigns</a> I heard your interview. Please send the address of this club you will throw me and my little brothers out of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> <a href="https://t.co/6QIO5337AI">pic.twitter.com/6QIO5337AI</a></p>&mdash; Junior Dos Santos ��️➕ (@junior_cigano) <a href="https://twitter.com/junior_cigano/status/1449516747317551104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

i love you both. please make up

#fan’s fine with me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/WWERomanReigns?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWERomanReigns</a> I heard your interview. Please send the address of this club you will throw me and my little brothers out of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> <a href="https://t.co/6QIO5337AI">pic.twitter.com/6QIO5337AI</a></p>&mdash; Junior Dos Santos ��️➕ (@junior_cigano) <a href="https://twitter.com/junior_cigano/status/1449516747317551104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Maybe he should go to the WWE and try and be a real star in professional wrestling?

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/WWERomanReigns?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWERomanReigns</a> I heard your interview. Please send the address of this club you will throw me and my little brothers out of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> <a href="https://t.co/6QIO5337AI">pic.twitter.com/6QIO5337AI</a></p>&mdash; Junior Dos Santos ��️➕ (@junior_cigano) <a href="https://twitter.com/junior_cigano/status/1449516747317551104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LOL this dude JUST had his first match, yet he is already sticking up for his "AEW Brothers", the ones that his group's entire gimmick is to bash, basically saying exactly what Roman said! Fuck man, you cant make this shit up :rofl:

[Maluco]

Still funny though! Big Roman is a star in the worst era of pro wrestling with no one else watching, and all it took was 6 years of consistent mega pushes (blame creative all you want, but the guy was completely unconvincing in any face role he was given)

He has one good heel run in a dormant era and acts like he is Stone Cold.

I don’t think AEW have a long term future with their insane boss thinking he can write shows and their midcard EVPs, but at least their show is fun and people seem to be enjoying themselves.

WWE is the worst. Between a lack of stars, totally played out characters, 50/50 booking, horrendous camera work and boring, boring TV, it’s basically unwatchable.

[slik]

Still funny though! Big Roman is a star in the worst era of pro wrestling with no one else watching, and all it took was 6 years of consistent mega pushes (blame creative all you want, but the guy was completely unconvincing in any face role he was given)

He has one good heel run in a dormant era and acts like he is Stone Cold.

I don’t think AEW have a long term future with their insane boss thinking he can write shows and their midcard EVPs, but at least their show is fun and people seem to be enjoying themselves.

WWE is the worst. Between a lack of stars, totally played out characters, 50/50 booking, horrendous camera work and boring, boring TV, it’s basically unwatchable.

I like this post and also want to see it again so it gets a #POTY Post Of The Year nomination

[screech]

I can deal with bad booking to a point. It's the horrendous camera work for me.

Watching AEW is refreshing [maybe the wrong word but fuck it] in that I don't have to see 47 cuts a minute because someone decides we need a zoom shot of every single move.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Last Friday's <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> Rampage drew 578,000 total viewers, above 502K prior week. Smackdown drew 866,000 on FS1. AEW and <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWE</a> tied in 18-49 demo (0.24), 18-34 male demo (0.20). AEW *beat* WWE in 18-49 male demo 0.34 to 0.32</p>&mdash; Pro Wrestling Torch (@PWTorch) <a href="https://twitter.com/PWTorch/status/1450195273246990338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just got quarters, will have more later, head-to-head even though WWE was commercial free with big guns which is a 20K advantage (0.015), it was 0.25 for Rampage and 0.22 for Smackdown.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1450212803642413056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Punk vs. Becks was 0.28 to 0.21.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1450213297744084994?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ruby Soho vs. Bunny tied Roman &amp; Lesnar, both at 0.23.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1450213965070360576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We're obtained a new key ratings detail on Friday: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rampage?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Rampage</a> beat <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWESmackdown?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWESmackdown</a> in head-to-head 30 minutes in the most coveted 18-49 demo - 328,000 to 285,000. Rampage led with Punk match, Smackdown featured Becky-Sasha and Lesnar. More details here:<a href="https://t.co/5b4ch7vmLW">https://t.co/5b4ch7vmLW</a></p>&mdash; Pro Wrestling Torch (@PWTorch) <a href="https://twitter.com/PWTorch/status/1450206349250506752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Meltzer/Alvarez have become unhinged. WWE was on a station with 100k less viewers than standard Cable TNT. A station is different from cable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ratings don’t work that way in 2021. Way too many variables. The 18-49 demo used to be key to getting into people’s wallets, but women have become increasingly important consumers (considered more important than men in many cases), and technological advancements make focusing on individual demos through targeted aims more realistic, driving down the competitive ad rate.

The “key demo” is an archaic term. Your best bet to reach people 18-49 is not through cable, and they are not always in the same position as Gen Xers were when it comes to disposable income.

Never mind the ad revenue split AEW has with WarnerMedia, and they’d need to double WWE’s ratings to be half-way as profitable in a 1:1 interpretation of the ratings. But then you have to factor in AEW’s explicit content, WWE’s global brand reach and AEW, frankly, being revolting to women. They don’t have the selling power of the WWE, which is why ratings matter AT ALL.

Celebrating a 0.02 win in one specific demo is disingenuous at best. And if this were just about popularity, not their value to their networks, overall popularity would matter more and AEW fans shouldn’t be forgetting that this was TNT vs. Fox Sports 1. Somehow I don’t think Rampage next week is going to get compared to SmackDown on FOX.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Meltzer/Alvarez have become unhinged.

They’ve got no credibility left. It’s fine to have opinions, but their takes don’t have any evidentiary basis. Meltzer has tried to spread the myth that Kenny Omega means more at the box office than Randy Orton. When and how has he even been on a show that has been watched by more than 1.5 million people? But there’s no shame attached to that statement.

I heard him calling The Young Bucks the greatest tag team of all-time the other day, because they don’t have “bad matches.” Lots of people think The Bucks’ style is horrid. They’ve never been draws. But no shame.

You can feel him doing the mental gymnastics as he tries to spin everything into a win for AEW. Just surviving the big mean WWE machine is a win for poor little grassroots AEW.

He hasn’t broken a news story in AGES. Sean Ross Sapp broke the recent AEaw signings. Meltz was chasing his tail in the aftermath saying “I heard there were two big names and two giant names.” Well why didn’t he report that then?

AEW treats him like a fan they want to make mark out. WWE guys are probably a little annoyed he disrespects their work to try and further a narrative to sell his newsletter. Just like The Young Bucks don’t understand what “killing the business” meant. It wasn’t talking about your business, but the potential others can do after you. Meltzer will chew up anything and everything to monetise the shrinking number of hardcore fans there are out there.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A wrestling show beating WWE head to head on cable has not happened since 1998. It's a huge deal. <a href="https://twitter.com/WrestlingInc?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WrestlingInc</a></p>&mdash; Raj Giri (@RajGiri_303) <a href="https://twitter.com/RajGiri_303/status/1450216671285682179?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All I’ll say is that the numbers news is a HOT topic right now backstage.</p>&mdash; WrestleVotes (@WrestleVotes) <a href="https://twitter.com/WrestleVotes/status/1450217038354522113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a story nobody leaked to you over the weekend but I’ll give you rn, dog: <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AEW</a> got a big victory over WWE after WWE aggressively extended their Friday show 30 minutes &amp; loaded it up head-to-head 10-10:30pm vs <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWRampage?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWRampage</a>, with AEW Rampage winning 328k to 285k (+15% margin).</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1450211491580420104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Meltzer talking about “big guns” on Fox Sports 1, lol. Watch Dynamite move to Boomerang and see how it does.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW did not beat SmackDown, guys. SmackDown got 900k viewers. AEW got 600k. Fox Sports 1 vs. TNT. Advertisers do not care about head-to-head single >40 male demos. The race between Axe Body Spray and Domino’s Pizza is not going to put Vince McMahon out of business.

[xrodmuc316]

Is Tony Khan seriously bragging about getting 328k viewers lol? This dude is worse at Twitter than Trump was :rofl:

[Lock Jaw]

They’ve got no credibility left. It’s fine to have opinions, but their takes don’t have any evidentiary basis. Meltzer has tried to spread the myth that Kenny Omega means more at the box office than Randy Orton. When and how has he even been on a show that has been watched by more than 1.5 million people? But there’s no shame attached to that statement.

I heard him calling The Young Bucks the greatest tag team of all-time the other day, because they don’t have “bad matches.” Lots of people think The Bucks’ style is horrid. They’ve never been draws. But no shame.

You can feel him doing the mental gymnastics as he tries to spin everything into a win for AEW. Just surviving the big mean WWE machine is a win for poor little grassroots AEW.

He hasn’t broken a news story in AGES. Sean Ross Sapp broke the recent AEaw signings. Meltz was chasing his tail in the aftermath saying “I heard there were two big names and two giant names.” Well why didn’t he report that then?

AEW treats him like a fan they want to make mark out. WWE guys are probably a little annoyed he disrespects their work to try and further a narrative to sell his newsletter. Just like The Young Bucks don’t understand what “killing the business” meant. It wasn’t talking about your business, but the potential others can do after you. Meltzer will chew up anything and everything to monetise the shrinking number of hardcore fans there are out there.

So far from what I have seen, TNA was putting on a better show than AEW is now back in 2005-2008ish..... but it didn't have the same "perfect storm" of events surrounding it that AEW has had... where it has become "cool" to hate on WWE and love the ragtag alternative.... and not just from the hardcore fan point of view but from the wrestling "journalists" and "IWC".... it has become like a "self-fulfilling prophecy".

Which I personally don't really have much of an issue with... the "journalists" gotta go with and cater to the population who is going to give them money... and the fans are rightfully hungry for an alternative right now.... but AEW is having success very much because of the environment it was born in and the sheer willpower of people WANTING it to happen than them actually being a significantly better product.... as I said, TNA cerca 2005-2008 was a better show than AEW is right now but didn't get credit because it wasn't really the "cool thing" to really hate WWE yet. For some portion of the hardcore fans sure, but nowhere near the amount today.

[xrodmuc316]

So far from what I have seen, TNA was putting on a better show than AEW is now back in 2005-2008ish..... but it didn't have the same "perfect storm" of events surrounding it that AEW has had... where it has become "cool" to hate on WWE and love the ragtag alternative.... and not just from the hardcore fan point of view but from the wrestling "journalists" and "IWC".... it has become like a "self-fulfilling prophecy".

Which I personally don't really have much of an issue with... the "journalists" gotta go with and cater to the population who is going to give them money... and the fans are rightfully hungry for an alternative right now.... but AEW is having success very much because of the environment it was born in and the sheer willpower of people WANTING it to happen than them actually being a significantly better product.... as I said, TNA cerca 2005-2008 was a better show than AEW is right now but didn't get credit because it wasn't really the "cool thing" to really hate WWE yet. For some portion of the hardcore fans sure, but nowhere near the amount today.

Very well said.

And while AEW has become a better show, they have become more insufferable as well. I just laughed that Tony Khan is using 328,000 viewers as some amazing stat to brag about. There is nothing they do as a company/brand outside of the 3 hours of television that is good in anyway. Cody found a stray dog like 2 years ago, and I cant remember a single thing since then that has been positive.

Its just whining "oh why us" and "its not fair" and bragging about nothing. They just arent likable people, even if their wrestling characters can be entertaining.

[slik]

I am putting SD and Rampage ratings in a match as tag team partners, can they coexist!?

[Vastardikai]

Imagine how insufferable the Attitude Era would have been if everyone talked about the Demos back then?

"Well, Raw beat Nitro's rating, but Nitro won the 18-34 Christian's who masturbate on odd days Demo."

[xrodmuc316]

Imagine how insufferable the Attitude Era would have been if everyone talked about the Demos back then?

"Well, Raw beat Nitro's rating, but Nitro won the 18-34 Christian's who masturbate on odd days Demo."

LOL right!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Imagine how insufferable the Attitude Era would have been if everyone talked about the Demos back then?

"Well, Raw beat Nitro's rating, but Nitro won the 18-34 Christian's who masturbate on odd days Demo."

At least back then cable was a growing industry and wrestling was at the forefront of it as a primary entertainment medium. There was also the real chance that one could genuinely go belly-up. There was actual tension there with WCW acquiring legitimately giant stars and Vince needing to create his own.

This is like the Monday Night Wars if only both shows failed to gain any traction in 1998.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So far from what I have seen, TNA was putting on a better show than AEW is now back in 2005-2008ish..... but it didn't have the same "perfect storm" of events surrounding it that AEW has had... where it has become "cool" to hate on WWE and love the ragtag alternative.... and not just from the hardcore fan point of view but from the wrestling "journalists" and "IWC".... it has become like a "self-fulfilling prophecy".

Which I personally don't really have much of an issue with... the "journalists" gotta go with and cater to the population who is going to give them money... and the fans are rightfully hungry for an alternative right now.... but AEW is having success very much because of the environment it was born in and the sheer willpower of people WANTING it to happen than them actually being a significantly better product.... as I said, TNA cerca 2005-2008 was a better show than AEW is right now but didn't get credit because it wasn't really the "cool thing" to really hate WWE yet. For some portion of the hardcore fans sure, but nowhere near the amount today.

Very salient post. And look — I totally get the anti-WWE stuff. I’ve been there. And that’s part of the work. If you can make people think you’re some cool alternative when you’re not — you’re doing *something* right there.

I get stroppy because people actually fall for the work and get upset when it is pointed out, haha. I don’t think AEW is an appreciably good show. I do not think it is appreciably better than even WWE. If you think so, cool. But there is so much underwhelming about it that I do still think it is going to hurt long-term. People are going to think this is the best that can be done.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shut up and wrestle.<br><br>I have a few things to get off my chest today on <a href="https://twitter.com/83Weeks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@83Weeks</a>. Catch it now over at <a href="https://t.co/NGhpdGVUFd">https://t.co/NGhpdGVUFd</a> <a href="https://t.co/8cBuUfvhCL">pic.twitter.com/8cBuUfvhCL</a></p>&mdash; Eric Bischoff (@EBischoff) <a href="https://twitter.com/EBischoff/status/1450110046734626820?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Vastardikai]

At least back then cable was a growing industry and wrestling was at the forefront of it as a primary entertainment medium. There was also the real chance that one could genuinely go belly-up. There was actual tension there with WCW acquiring legitimately giant stars and Vince needing to create his own.

This is like the Monday Night Wars if only both shows failed to gain any traction in 1998.

And more that I think about it, the Demo thing is dumber. It is the 18-34 male demographic. Like they are proud of catering to a bunch of dudes who look like them. And they are doing slightly better in that little speck of the viewing population. You know what they AREN'T talking about? How many women are watching the show. That Demo is a massacre, in favor of WWE.

And again, it isn't like WWE was on Fox. They were on a station with viewer eyeballs on it than TNT. And WWE still got more eyeballs on them than AEW.

[GD]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shut up and wrestle.<br><br>I have a few things to get off my chest today on <a href="https://twitter.com/83Weeks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@83Weeks</a>. Catch it now over at <a href="https://t.co/NGhpdGVUFd">https://t.co/NGhpdGVUFd</a> <a href="https://t.co/8cBuUfvhCL">pic.twitter.com/8cBuUfvhCL</a></p>&mdash; Eric Bischoff (@EBischoff) <a href="https://twitter.com/EBischoff/status/1450110046734626820?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sage words.

[Destor]

And more that I think about it, the Demo thing is dumber. It is the 18-34 male demographic. Like they are proud of catering to a bunch of dudes who look like them. And they are doing slightly better in that little speck of the viewing population. You know what they AREN'T talking about? How many women are watching the show. That Demo is a massacre, in favor of WWE.

And again, it isn't like WWE was on Fox. They were on a station with viewer eyeballs on it than TNT. And WWE still got more eyeballs on them than AEW.
its a high profit demo. or was. better than 60+ for instance

[Destor]

and i agree gloating about beating them on fs1 is bushleague and only hypes your, heavily bias, base. its like if doanld trump ran a wrestling show.

[Bad News Gertner]

I've wondered about that 18-34 demo. I remember hearing what t was more valuable than the older demo was because the older demo is more set in their ways and not as easily influenced but is that the case now? The older demo grew up when pop culture was starting to impact society. People age differently nowadays.

[Destor]

young people will always be easier to influence. you dont know what you like until youve lived and taken chances. i dont think thats generational HOWEVER if you convert a customer in their 20s you might be getting 60 years of business. you convert an 80 year old... well its not as lucrative to say the least.

[screech]

Don't wanna quote Lock Jaw's long post, but TNA was really good from 2005-2008. Maybe even to 2009 - right before Hogan came into play.

Semi-related: I liked that not every match was a bunch of flippy stuff since they had the X Division. I think rasslin is well past separating flippy stuff from other stuff now though.

[Sepholio]

At this point the demos have basically become the participation trophies of ratings. But they are also accurate, so I get it.

[Sepholio]

Ignore the fact that we lost every other category and the overall guys because we won this one little segment! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WWE is a trainwreck of a company.

[Sepholio]

I actually like AEW for what it is btw. But the way they, and by they I mean mostly Tony Khan, are so full of themselves is kinda off putting in a weird way. He sounds less like the guy in charge and more like a teenage mark every day.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lots of really good posts here, to be honest. It’s refreshing, because I expected a lot of chest-thumping for AEW. It really is silly.

With the demos, you can tell the reporting is biased because AEW getting killed in women, which is important, is completely brushed over. Vastardikai pointed that out.

It’s great if you can get 18 year old influencers on-board with your content. But do we even have evidence of this? The average age of the AEW fan is something like 47, isn’t it? Plus, I’m fairly certain that when it comes to people with disposable income, the balance has changed since the period where 18-49 men ruled the day. It’s not COMPLETELY different, or different in all cases. But the zeroing in on this demo just suits the story.

If AEW were doing better in viewership, that would be the story. Guaranteed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Apparently the first and third largest markets in the US weren’t counted for WWE either.

[screech]

lol I think Cornette referred to Tony Khan as a Millionaire Mark and he was not wrong.

[Evil Vito]

Khan is definitely a mark, and whilst I get bored of talk of ratings or demos or whatever, I definitely appreciate the boundless enthusiasm. I’d be the same way if I had access to deep pockets and could run my own promotion.

[XL]

Lots of really good posts here, to be honest. It’s refreshing, because I expected a lot of chest-thumping for AEW. It really is silly.

We have been telling you for the longest time that most people here have balanaced opinions on AEW.

[James Steele]

Khan is definitely a mark, and whilst I get bored of talk of ratings or demos or whatever, I definitely appreciate the boundless enthusiasm. I’d be the same way if I had access to deep pockets and could run my own promotion.

This. I wonder if Khan had a vivacious EWR discussion group when he was younger. :lol:

He's playing to his base and trying to drum up enthusiasm for the "alternative brand". I get it. It's all peacocking and smoke and mirrors. He's also trying to come off as "one of us" despite being a 2nd generation billionaire. He is clearly a socially awkward guy based off the post-PPV media scrums. I thought he was going to lick CM Punk's penis in front of Dave Meltzer.

At the end of the day though I find their overall show more entertaining than WWE. That's all that matters to me. AEW has me considering paying $50 for a PPV and I haven't done that since WrestleMania XXVIII.

[drave]

At the end of the day though I find their overall show more entertaining than WWE. That's all that matters to me. AEW has me considering paying $50 for a PPV and I haven't done that since WrestleMania XXVIII.


This is all it is, really. I've bought 3 of their PPV's at that price. The last time I paid for a WWE PPV was probably the mania before everything went to the network.

[Jordan]

I wish Tony would stop talking about WWE. It doesn't make anything better in any way. I don't really care about demos in ratings personally. Claiming a victory while still losing in total viewers seems really petty to me.

AEW definitely is better since Tony took over booking completely but I don't need to have the curtain raised on everything that happens backstage. I prefer a little more kayfabe than say having shoot interviews at a press conference after a big show or ppv.

[Triple A]

WWE also has a decades long history, so it makes sense that they would have a lot of "die hard" older fans who have been watching for a long time

[Mr. Nerfect]

We have been telling you for the longest time that most people here have balanaced opinions on AEW.

Sorry, I disagree with that. Something has changed. It’s hard to put a finger on it, but I think the general disappointment after the hype Punk and Danielson brought, or being unable to capitalize on All Out has altered people’s perception. Even if you don’t see through the entire product, per se, more people just haven’t been tickled in a sustained way after these biggish moments, and they realize that.

It could just be timing and the product cooling. Their ratings have reflected a more widespread malaise with the product. Dynamite has been cooling off from 1.2 million to 1 million, Rampage down from 1 million to 500k, etc. People have been effected by the product somehow.

This is all it is, really. I've bought 3 of their PPV's at that price. The last time I paid for a WWE PPV was probably the mania before everything went to the network.

And that’s fair enough. It really is. If you feel great spending $150 on this stuff, then I’m glad you’ve gotten the chance to do that. I can’t say the same thing though, and the reason I think it is relevant is because I think for everybody who is stoked to spend $150 on AEW, there are people who would rather not even get paid that amount of money to watch it.

It’s not a sure-fire hit — it’s hit-and-miss.

I wish Tony would stop talking about WWE. It doesn't make anything better in any way. I don't really care about demos in ratings personally. Claiming a victory while still losing in total viewers seems really petty to me.

AEW definitely is better since Tony took over booking completely but I don't need to have the curtain raised on everything that happens backstage. I prefer a little more kayfabe than say having shoot interviews at a press conference after a big show or ppv.

Imagine how much cooler Tony would look if instead of getting overly excited about specific demos, he took a way more laid-back approach and was like “Hey, it’s cool people look for patterns and stuff. I’m always trying to be better though. I’d love to get more older people watching, earn the respect of more entrenched fans, make believers out of children and really endear ourselves to women. Most of all, I want the people who check us out one week come back the next.”

Like, there’s a way of appearing humble and not pissing on every fan you don’t get.

[Jordan]

Tony being a mark is definitely kinda lame but it's double edged sword. Because he is the mark that he is, we get a very fan friendly product that pleases the fan base big time. Sure there are nit picky things we can critique but overall I really enjoy AEW, especially since he began booking and they brought the show back on tour with fans.

I give him some grace because he has no experience with booking but with that said he's been doing a great job.

My biggest critique for AEW is not the booking but the lack of care taken by the agents to prevent spots being repeated throughout a show. Too many guys wrestling like The Bucks essentially. Too many dive spots, leg slaps and super kicks. I would appreciate some care taken to not repeat certain moves in more than one match. That's probably my biggest pet peeve on AEW.

I also really don't like dive spots that don't look painful. When the diver barely touches the guy/guys on the ground and yet the sell it like getting hit by a brick that really makes me roll my eyes.

[Evil Vito]

My biggest critique for AEW is not the booking but the lack of care taken by the agents to prevent spots being repeated throughout a show. Too many guys wrestling like The Bucks essentially. Too many dive spots, leg slaps and super kicks. I would appreciate some care taken to not repeat certain moves in more than one match. That's probably my biggest pet peeve on AEW.

I also really don't like dive spots that don't look painful. When the diver barely touches the guy/guys on the ground and yet the sell it like getting hit by a brick that really makes me roll my eyes.

This is definitely a fair point. It's especially bad when somebody does, say, a throwaway table spot early in the show that is meant to be a major part of the finish to the main.

I realize that most/all matches on Dynamite have their own agent, they usually only have about 5 matches per show so it's good to have an agent dedicated to each match instead of spreading themselves thin. But some sort of pre-show meeting amongst the agents and Tony/Cody or whoever where they can lay out a few key spots to reserve for one match would help tidy things up a bit.

[screech]

Tony Khan is definitely still playing EWR.