All Elite Wrestling

[Mr. Nerfect]

189k viewers for Collision.

[EIWF]

I haven’t engaged with the whole story, but I did hear something about MJF punching a wall. I think we can agree on one thing:

This is all CM Punk’s fault.


I heard Bret say it's Goldbergs fault

[Destor]

Thats the most reliable piece of information ever posted on this flrum

[Mr. Nerfect]

I heard Bret say it's Goldbergs fault

Goldberg has an airtight alibi. He has been whinging online for the past 6 months.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s CM Punk’s fault that WBD is billions of dollars in debt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And we’re back again. Hope everyone has been enjoying seeing people stab each other with needles.

[Volchok]

AEW is a super Indy with a TV deal basically.

[Destor]

Renewal is going to be finalized any day now. Current contract was 175mil for 4 years. Last i heard the new deal could be around 110mil per year for 5 years. Not following it super close so that might not be whats coming out now. Pretty insane bump obviously if true.

Suttlebutt is theyre trying to leverage another station. Dunno if theyre wanting more or to be on mutliple networks. Eitherway its dumb. Sign the contract before they realize theyre overspending.

[The Rogerer]

And we’re back again. Hope everyone has been enjoying seeing people stab each other with needles.Yes.

Everyone is basically really stupid and only shocked by novelty. People got numb to thumbtacks - hundreds of thick spikes going into people's bodies which they're completely fine with, and decided to get scandalised by a needle, a thing designed to go through skin.

Wrestling is a succession of novel and interesting spectacles, and it seems the audience today has decided to be as aggressively stupid about it as they can. As if it's their job. There are some people that do have that as a job, and other people imitate them, for free.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The sad thing with the site being down is that we missed 29 confirmed new TV deal announcements.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ask yourself: Why would Tony Khan brag about a deal that hasn’t been done yet.

[Destor]

Its getting renewed. That's certain

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Bryan vs Nigel on national television. 2007 me used to dream for times like this.

[Lock Jaw]

Looking for that coveted 2007 IWC Nerd ratings bump

[Destor]

That was peak wrestling though. I think it was a little into the Morishima run that Gabe Sapolski eneded his RoH run but damn it if it wasnt absolute lightening in a bottle up until then. Pure champ Nigel era was tops.

[xrodmuc316]

I believe Warner Bros Discovers is going to give a company that has lost 40% of their viewers a 300% rights increase solely because... OF COURSE a company that lost $9.1 BILLION last quarter would grossly overpay for a TV show that has no need to ever turn a profit. You don't lose $9.1 BILLION without making sound business decisions like that!

[drave]

Good job!

[screech]

haven't watched AEW in a few weeks but they're getting renewed so it looks like they don't need me

[The Rogerer]

I believe Warner Bros Discovers is going to give a company that has lost 40% of their viewers a 300% rights increase solely because... OF COURSE a company that lost $9.1 BILLION last quarter would grossly overpay for a TV show that has no need to ever turn a profit. You don't lose $9.1 BILLION without making sound business decisions like that!AEW overdelivered, Smackdown underdelivered. If you can't understand the fundamentals of business, you must be stupid and do things like post on a forum that doesn't even fucking work

[weather vane]

Haha.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Its getting renewed. That's certain

Is it certain? Tony Khan says that. Dave Meltzer says that. Andrew Zarian says that. Take a step back and look at things from outside the wrestling nerd bubble.

AEW probably generates something like $120 million in advertising revenue. With a generous split so WBD feels secure in the decision, you’re looking at the entire AEW package being bought for $25 million. At what point does that become throwing money down a well?

Now you’re hearing rumors of Fox networks getting involved. The thing is, that isn’t going to leverage a larger deal, because Fox Sports 1 would get, what? About 300k for Dynamite? Is Tony walking into WBD offices bragging about a $15 million per year offer from Fox Sports?

All the basic cable players would have their schedules worked out. Paramount isn’t likely waiting on the line for a show that would need to be picked up and marketed for January. There’s no one else. And at what point do you just accept that maybe AEW is just undesirable content?

They’re losing their TV deals internationally. It’d only be shocking to wrestling fans because the propaganda patrol has told you how smart and sexy Tony Khan is. And everyone kind of gets pressured into saying “well of course they’re getting renewed” because they’re too scared to be wrong.

I think it wound be more shocking to see AEW actually pull off a successful deal than stumble over their own feet at this point. I’m calling Triller.

Nothing is stopping Tony from announcing something for Rampage, Collision or ROH. He could very easily announce a deal for Collision while keeping WBD on the line. But the problem is that someone would actually want it.

Tony failing to get anything for ROH was the tip off that there just aren’t people out there who want it, but people slept on that because the wrestling media is terrible.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tl;dr: I’ll believe a deal when I see it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

By the way, Kathleen Finch, the head of TBS and TNT has literally announced her retirement without an AEW deal being made. And you’ve got Tony going on TV bragging about how much they love him.

If I was TNA, I’d be calling WBD and offering to do better wrestling on a slightly smaller scale for a much lower price. If you’re WBD, which deal would you make? Stick with the sinking ship or go with the guys with a WWE relationship? One’s got less bodily fluid consumption these days too.

[Destor]

Yeah its certain. Its so certain its not worth talking about. I know you want them to fail, and they will in time, but that day isnt today.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If a deal was actually certain, something would have been announced a year ago. Nothing is certain when you’re still negotiating in Q4 2024 when your deal expires in Q4 2024. And you definitely don’t go on national television and brag about a deal that hasn’t been made. Even if AEW were healthy, the shape of WBD alone should make a reasonable person question. Tony’s bravado seems to imply he’s got nothing.

I think the day they failed has actually passed, but the wrestling media just refused to call it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

We’re hearing that AEW is having talks with Fox Sports. If they extend a deal, it’s not going to be a TBS-sized one because of the network scope. But if he’s having talks with Fox Sports no then what sort of leverage could he possibly have.

The big offers would come from platforms where the TBS numbers could be reasonably sustained. USA, Paramount, your major streaming services. The window has probably closed for all of them now lol. That’s why you’re hearing about the baby Fox networks.

If AEW generated $120 million a year in ad revenue, there would be a logical pathway forward from that. $25 million or whatever. But chances are it does worse than that, hence why WBD was out $9.1 billion or whatever. Whoopsies.

If AEW generated significant ad revenue, those numbers would have someone knocking at their door trying to put AEW on their networks. A FS1 would take a Rampage for $10 million or whatever. Then you’ve at least got something on. But there’s literally nothing except FS1 gossip and promises that everything is going fine.

[Lock Jaw]

Lol at several tldr posts by Noid not believing a deal will/is done

This is what we're missing on the other boards

Quality entertainment

[Destor]

He has AEW derangement syndrome. He cant connect with any reality where its not the worst scenrio every time. Its silly and not worth engaging with. There's zero objectivity.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s not always the worst scenario possible. I can see them getting Triller.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol at several tldr posts by Noid not believing a deal will/is done

This is what we're missing on the other boards

Quality entertainment

What makes you think a deal is done?

[The Rogerer]

Tl;dr: I’ll believe a deal when I see it.Please let me know how to keep up with your thoughts if the forum is down

[Seanny One Ball]

What’s going on here boys?

I see a poster that never posts lambasting a poster that most definitely posts about posting when the forum barely works.

Is that what we’re doing boys? Insulting ourselves now?

Rogerer you shut your face you stupid tit. I see what you’re up to and I will not stand for it. Noid, beat feet. I have your back.

Let the line be drawn.

Noid is not for outsiders to toy with.

[Seanny One Ball]

Rog you can come back when you have enough self respect to acknowledge that you are an obese forty five year old who can’t get a proper erection because he has wanked his life away.

Alternatively you can apologise to Noid for being Irish.

It’s six of one and half of whatever your smelly old wife makes on the fish market selling her skate.

[mitchables]

fat jericho makes me deeply sad

[Mr. Nerfect]

fat jericho makes me deeply sad

It’s kind of crazy how far he’s fallen off with almost everyone. He could no wrong for a couple of decades there.

Remember when he said he was getting fat to be a better heel in Japan? I think he’s been booked there once since then, if that lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So you want to turn Moxley heel on Bryan, right? Why wouldn’t you wait to do that until Bryan had a schedule cleared of opponents? Shouldn’t that have happened, say, at Grand Slam?

Mox and Darby could wrestle for a title shot. Mox can be weird on the side around Bryan or something. Mix can beat Darby then turn heel after Bryan finishes with Nigel — who could have actually won the Wembley gauntlet. Then you can have Darby show up and stake his claim as an ally to Bryan.

Then you can go into WrestleDream with Bryan vs. Mox, Darby vs. PAC, Nigel vs. Claudio…that sort of thing. Instead you’re going to either step on Mox’s heat or have Darby fail to defend his hometown title shot and have Bryan/Nigel happen without any focus whatsoever.

And why does Bryan need to be champ for any of this? I’m not a fan of the guys, but if Hangman Page and Swerve Strickland are going to be headlining All Out, why not just make it a title match? Swerve beats Bryan without the stip. Bryan has at least shown weakness to entice the Mox heel turn.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Miro has requested his release from AEW. The phrase “it’s about fucking time” comes to mind. He has been terribly misused there. The problem is, if Tony sets a precedent with him, how many other wrestlers are going to ask for their release?

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW’s new media deal has Dynamite and Collision staying in place, Rampage dropped and their content basically being a driver off cable to streaming. Financials were not discussed. Sources say close to $150 million for all aspects of the deal, which even Meltzer was saying wasn’t good. But it may not even be that high.

So they’re basically being whored out. It may not even make AEW profitable. The best thing for AEW would have been for it to get knocked off so changes could actually be made. This deal is likely to see continued erosion on each side of the aisle.

[DaveWadding]

:lol:

[Destor]

The deal that everyone knew was an inevitably except one person has finally been closed. Now we can move on from if it will happen to why its the worse trade deal in the history of trade deals.

[Destor]

Simulcasts are a good call for WBD. Max is their future. There's a good chance they sell the tv divisions on the very cheap over next half decade or so. Also the 3 year deal is great for WBD too. It gives them a way out if groth continues to be poor (or more likely aggressively negative as it has been.) Its a clear signal that they have little faith in the brand and sets the clock on AEW to shit or get off the pot.

[weather vane]

hahahaha weoooooooo AEW AEW AEW!!!! Best promotion of all time? Looking like it I guess.

[Destor]

Its a win/win for WBD. Theyve positioned the brand on their streamjng app which is the horse the company is backing long term. So if aew succeeds hey its on the app. Huge win. If it fails theyre out 12 investor reports. Meanwhile they get to go to.those investor meetings with live wrestling to show that theyre making a real push to compete with netflix move (raw) for move (aew.)

And hey, aew gets to live another day which isnt the worst scenrio that some (one) imagined. Theyve a punchers chance. Its not nothing.

[xrodmuc316]

How big of a piece WBD owns matters just as much as the dollar amount. If WBD owns 33%, that means $50 million of the reported $150 million would just be them paying themselves. It is a weird dynamic, because the more WBD gives them, the more they get back in whatever weird accounting practices they are doing.

It also has the benefit to Tony that he can keep playing make believe businessman, which is about 35% of the reason AEW even exists.

[xrodmuc316]

Also, they were supposed to get a Billion dollars, and if the numbers and years are true, they didnt even get half of that.

[Destor]

I never heard anything about $1B. WBD definitely doesnt have that to spend. Is that what Meltzer was claiming? I dont follow him and tpww has been down.

[xrodmuc316]

I don't think it came from Dave, it came from the Sean Ross Sapps and Andrew Zarians, going back to before they even had Collision. Regardless though, I hope they get the library on Max, would be so much easier to watch the few good things they have and skip all the random nonsense.

[Destor]

I wish these streaming sites would post both full shows and have the shows time stamped for individual matches. Sometimes i wanna watch a card. Sometimes i wanna watch a match. If the RoH library goes up especially.

[xrodmuc316]

I wish these streaming sites would post both full shows and have the shows time stamped for individual matches. Sometimes i wanna watch a card. Sometimes i wanna watch a match. If the RoH library goes up especially.

100% the biggest thing I miss from the WWE Network.

[DaveWadding]

I wish these streaming sites would post both full shows and have the shows time stamped for individual matches. Sometimes i wanna watch a card. Sometimes i wanna watch a match. If the RoH library goes up especially.

The way WWE Network used to be set up was ideal, with the match markers at the beginning of the match, then a marker at the end of the match before the decision. I hope they use something similar

[Destor]

I think its wishful thinking honestly but i agree

[Mr. Nerfect]

Forgive me for not having any faith in AEW to con even a media entity as embarrassing as WBD.

[xrodmuc316]

Every "journalist" reporting this deal has increased the amount from the last one. Dave Meltzer now reports is as $555 million with an option 4th year at like $250 million. In 2 days the reports have increased the amount over $100 million total lol

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, sure, like the company with a $600 million TV deal is going to hold the elevator. COME ON!

[xrodmuc316]

How much per viewers is WBD paying AEW? 329,000 is not a good rating lol

[Destor]

Its quite bad. At this point trying to brain storm ways to get people behind it again feels so daunting. The audience that has stopped watching, the bulk atleast, will never return. If AEW started putting on the best show producable on earth it wouldnt actually matter. Lines in the sand have been drawn. Its tribalism now.

That portion is a very significant portion of the wrestling audience. So what do you do? Well there's a lot of wrestling fans out there that dont know theyre wrestling fans yet. In theory atleast.

So do you start courting new markets? How do you do that without reshaping the entire product from the ground up? That will lose the loyalist on principle. And even if you could Kahn clearly only knows how to do one thing and he cant do that particularly well.

Its just a nightmare of an issue.

This really is a fundamental issue that stems from Kahn. They could have never reached their heights without his wallet but there was never any intent on giving the money mark the book. Once he siezed control of creative it was over. There's no saving it with him and there's no saving it without his money. If he'd bring in talent to book and fuck off to run the front end maybe...i dunno.

Its a nightmare....or a plague...a nightmare about a plague.

[weather vane]

Its awesome. AEW is awesome.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How much per viewers is WBD paying AEW? 329,000 is not a good rating lol

This is one of the chief reasons why I am genuinely surprised WBD actually gave them a new deal. Even a deal with equity, performance markers, that takes all the advertising and PPV revenue — a completely lateral, or even more one-sided deal than before — still can’t expect to see any sort of growth. It should actually factor in that WWE can counter-program through streaming via either Netflix or Peacock and absolutely decimate AEW’s viewership.

That Dynamite number was atrocious. And it can and will get that low again. The trend of the show losing viewers as it continues suggests that people get annoyed watching it. They are eventually not going to come back.

The deal has to be absolutely no pressure at all. They’re just taking a bath on AEW because they want to play around with PPV and running live stuff on MAX, etc. Or they’re absolute fucking morons.

Even if they don’t have to pay them the full speculated amount (reports say things like “up to”) — the real estate on basic cable should be way more valuable than to be tanking your nights like that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

According to Tony Schiavone, fans who don’t like The Young Bucks are idiots. And apparently most of them are bots. I don’t know how that explains the dip in viewers every time they’re on, but ok.

[xrodmuc316]

Tony Schiavone said AEW would be stupid to hire Samantha Irvin because Justin Roberts is the best announcer in the business, so he clearly is a retard lol

[xrodmuc316]

Tony Schiavone said AEW would be stupid to hire Samantha Irvin because Justin Roberts is the best announcer in the business, so he clearly is a retard lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

He also said Bryan Danielson is the greatest of all time and Joe Tessitore won’t be as good at announcing as Excalibur.

He’s clearly having WCW dying days deja vu.

[Big Vic]

Didn't she leave because she wanted to do more than announce?

[drave]

she did.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hopefully Tony Khan has given creative control to Bobby Lashley. If you’ve heard his pitch for a storyline with Gunther, we’re in for a wild ride.

[weather vane]

CANT WAIT FOR DYNAMITE TMRW

[xrodmuc316]

Shawn Michaels ruining Tiny Klown's life again tonight lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wonder if BigCrippyZ still watches? :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s kind of funny watching everyone big-up this thing early days go radio silent. It was never good, but a lot of people can’t bring themselves to admit they were taken in by it.

I wanted AEW to be good. I started this thread with optimism. But it was very clear from day dot they didn’t know what they were doing. But buy off a few podcasters and you’re in.

[Destor]

Ive never seen one of thier shows in its entirety but tbf i havent sat down and watched a full card of anything probably 8 years or so.

[Destor]

Well thats not true. Ive watched a few NWA card in their entirety but theyre an hour or so

[weather vane]

Powerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[xrodmuc316]

NXT beats Dynamite again. I can't wait for seething Tiny Klown's next meltdown lol!!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Meltzer’s was hilarious.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He’s now trying to spin it into a win for AEW.

If I worked at TBS, I'd say AEW won. WBD when it does internal ratings it is based on 18-49 as a percentage of homes that get the station. I've seen copies. In the standings how they would have it, which is the statistically fair way to look at it, it would be 0.39 to 0.38. But I don't work at TBS.

No Dave, you don’t work for TBS.

I love how his source is “trust me bro.” This is the same guy who tried to take a speculative post by a mark on his own forums and frame it as an internal memo from WBD.

I don’t know how “beating” NXT means more advertising revenue for AEW — which is a sinking ship in terms of popularity, and leaked viewers until it was in the mid-400s. It’s also weird to still be using 18-49 to calculate cable appeal in 2024. Sounds like Dave is a little out of touch on this one.

[xrodmuc316]

Last I read was Meltz said NXT did win, but it was.onky because of ECW lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

Now he’s gone and added that AEW are the real winners if you go by a made-up metric.

It wasn’t even an ECW show. It was an NXT show featuring ECW alumni using their WWE gimmicks. And I thought AEW was supposed to be the biggest thing since peak WCW anyway? The main focus of the show was on their women’s division.

Still, AEW fears Nunzio.

[The Rogerer]

It’s also weird to still be using 18-49 to calculate cable appeal in 2024.Why? Confused by this, what should people be using?

[screech]

Well thats not true. Ive watched a few NWA card in their entirety but theyre an hour or so

I kept meaning to watch NWA. I feel like it would be up my alley. Did you enjoy it?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Meltzer wrote a piece on Dutch Mantell’s health. He couldn’t help but point out that Dutch has been a brutal critic of AEW (even at its popularity peak). Gross.

[Destor]

I kept meaning to watch NWA. I feel like it would be up my alley. Did you enjoy it?when it first started i really liked it. I still mostly positive about it but its definitely losing sight of its intent.

[The Rogerer]

Can people stop talking about Dave Meltzer and answer my above question about Dave Meltzer

[Destor]

Who?

[Lock Jaw]

No, we aren't talking about Jim Neidhart right now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rey Fenix has started talking publicly about AEW. He sounds frustrated that Tony is trying to hold him on injury time because when Fenix needed a doctor, AEW ignored him for months.

[Big Vic]

Shady

[Lock Jaw]

tiny khan

[Mr. Nerfect]

Interest in the AEW product seems to be rapidly diminishing and Tony isn’t doing anything to course correct. I don’t know how anyone can predict anything other than increased drops for them.

[xrodmuc316]

Dare we say it, AEW is in Shambles??? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[screech]

i don't know the whole story and i don't really care that much but someone asked rey fenix if he tried punching jack perry to get out of AEW and that made me laugh

[Mr. Nerfect]

Dave has taken a new approach. He’s talking about how great AEW is in terms of quality but now acknowledges how it’s doing poorly in the ratings. He’s now admitting that Rampage “only” got 177k viewers. But it was a great Rampage.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Who has more undying love? Jacob Fatu for Solo or Dave for AEW?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Willie Mack has been pulled from GCW shows because of the conflict between those two promotions. For those who haven’t followed, wrestler Effy made comments about AEW running the Hammerstein Ballroom so close to GCW. He pointed out that Tony Khan and AEW had financial advantages that GCW didn’t and made a quip about Tony Khan being paid by Shad to go away.

I had no clue Wille Mack even worked for AEW. His last match was for ROH in October lol.

I think we’re beginning to see Tony Khan crumble. He’s entering his Caligula phase.

[xrodmuc316]

I saw Dave say that AEW did better than NXT in terms of coverage area of the key demo. They are literally inventing shit to claim moral victories at this point lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m sure advertisers fall for that and rush to make AEW a more valuable commodity than WWE programming.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Kamille is allegedly unhappy in AEW. I don’t know what she expected.

[xrodmuc316]

Dave saying stupid shit like AEW is going to be the second most profitable wrestling company ever when the new TV deal starts shows what an absolute idiot he us. AEW isn't profitable until they make back the initial $100 million startup cost, or the $200 million estimated losses they have had over the last 5 years.

He also doesn't seem to understand that Tony was willing to lose $40 million a year before the new TV deal, yet somehow thinks Tony having access to more money from WBD will make Tony more fiscally responsible. Like Tony won't keep overpaying his roster and buying expensive music and booking 20,000 seat arenas to sell 2000 tickets.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Dave counting his chickens could come back to bite him. If Sesame Street can get dropped by WBD, AEW could be in for a rude shock.

I don’t trust Dave’s Meltzer math on the subject. Tony is just going to spend more even IF the deal isn’t performance-geared.

[The Rogerer]

It’s also weird to still be using 18-49 to calculate cable appeal in 2024.Why? Confused by this, what should people be using?

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW’s revenue is almost entirely from TV rights too, which is a relatively modern adjustment — at least to the degree where it is so significant. When Dave gloats about AEW’s “success,” bypassing every metric of actual popularity, he knows that he’s being disingenuous and grading on a sliding scale.

AEW stans will reject the idea of comparing ratings retroactively, but have no problem slipping modern TV rights into the discussion to compare AEW to past promotions.

Dave Meltzer and his ilk will also use AEW’s stadiums as talking points, overlooking that the goal was to run markets more reliability and sustainably back in the day. WCW did have some success in bigger venues, but their goal wasn’t to pack one massive building once a year (something AEW struggles to do anyway). They were also selling out their basketball arenas on the same night as the WWF was running theirs.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be fair, AEW does seem to be going to smaller buildings now. What I don’t think has been factored in is how potentially damaging this could be to the fanbase’s perception of the product. It’s a concession of defeat — a necessary one and one that’s long overdue — but a concession nonetheless. I think you’re going to still see them struggle to move tickets.

I am convinced they did zero market research before announcing their Australian show. Anyone could have told you it was absolutely insane to book a stadium in Brisbane for wrestling. They didn’t even talk to Harley Cameron who is on their roster. That’s the brain-trust there. I don’t know why anyone would expect more planning or competency to be implemented elsewhere.

[xrodmuc316]

Why? Confused by this, what should people be using?

Mostly because Dave's important metrics change every week so no matter what, it means AEW is doing great. 18-49 only matters when AEW wins, otherwise he spins it. Let's not forget when Dave explained how in Canada, the demo is 18-54, and AEW won that demo, because Canadian ratings let Dave hype up how great AEW was doing that week.

When NXT got 680,000 viewers with a .17 demo, and Dynamite got 573,000 viewers with a .17 demo, Dave declared that AEW won, because .17 in the demo on TBS is better than .17 on the CW.

Nevermind that 107,000 less people watched, or that AEW's payroll is easily 20 times of what NXT's payroll is, or that CW is paying NXT 5 times less than WBD is paying AEW. But none of those points allow Dave to spin that a .17 demo is better than a .17 demo, which defeats Dave's purpose of covering for AEW's failure to grow their brand whatsoever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Mostly because Dave's important metrics change every week so no matter what, it means AEW is doing great. 18-49 only matters when AEW wins, otherwise he spins it. Let's not forget when Dave explained how in Canada, the demo is 18-54, and AEW won that demo, because Canadian ratings let Dave hype up how great AEW was doing that week.

When NXT got 680,000 viewers with a .17 demo, and Dynamite got 573,000 viewers with a .17 demo, Dave declared that AEW won, because .17 in the demo on TBS is better than .17 on the CW.

Nevermind that 107,000 less people watched, or that AEW's payroll is easily 20 times of what NXT's payroll is, or that CW is paying NXT 5 times less than WBD is paying AEW. But none of those points allow Dave to spin that a .17 demo is better than a .17 demo, which defeats Dave's purpose of covering for AEW's failure to grow their brand whatsoever.

Bingo. Dave has been quoted as touting viewership as the most important metric just prior to AEW’s debut too. That changed when Dynamite debuted with a comparatively impressive demo:viewership number. Now he just tries to claim that Dynamite wins because…Dynamite.

The 18-49 demo is an oversimplified and unspecific holdover from yesteryear anyway. Households and the way people consume media have changed — as have the interests of advertisers and other TV stakeholders. Dave is out of touch, if you even halfway take him genuinely.

[The Rogerer]

The 18-49 demo is the primary metric that Nielsen uses to order their ratings. This is nothing to do with Meltzer. I want to know why you think the entire US TV industry is using the wrong indicator, and what you think they should use. What metrics are the advertisers and stakeholders that you mention using?

[Big Vic]

What percentage of posts in this thread are about Dave/ratings?

[xrodmuc316]

Metric matters when AEW wins.
Metric importance changes when AEW doesn't win.

It is not the metric itself, but how Dave Meltzer specifically changes what the number means from week to week to fit his narrative.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Audiences can be more accurately pinpointed now too. A few years ago, the target was Asian-American audiences. The 18-49 tells you nothing about that. Its importance was conceptualized in the 70s. Advertisers could target the whole family through the 18-49 male, who would likely control the family’s spendings. Times have changed.

We also have YouTube, streaming and other ways to reach high spenders. Cable — specifically second-tier wrestling — is not the best way to reach the audiences you want to reach.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Needless to say, Collision didn’t do too well on TNT against Saturday Night’s Main Event on NBC and Peacock. I can’t wait for Meltzer to say the show actually did better than last week because the demo rating went up or that it’s unfair to count this week. Maybe he’ll find a way to adjust Collision by 2.1 million?

[The Rogerer]

Audiences can be more accurately pinpointed now too. A few years ago, the target was Asian-American audiences. The 18-49 tells you nothing about that. Its importance was conceptualized in the 70s. Advertisers could target the whole family through the 18-49 male, who would likely control the family’s spendings. Times have changed.

We also have YouTube, streaming and other ways to reach high spenders. Cable — specifically second-tier wrestling — is not the best way to reach the audiences you want to reach.For AEW, their biggest revenue source is their US television contract. That money comes from advertising. The value/effectiveness of that advertising is measured, stop me if I'm wrong, by Nielson, who consider 18-49 to be the key metric.

Now you're saying that cable isn't the best way to reach audiences - but your original point was that "the demo" was not the best way to evaluate cable hotness, so you were talking about cable. Please be clear.

[weather vane]

Why do you do this.. :|

[Destor]

For AEW, their biggest revenue source is their US television contract. That money comes from advertising. The value/effectiveness of that advertising is measured, stop me if I'm wrong, by Nielson, who consider 18-49 to be the key metric.

Now you're saying that cable isn't the best way to reach audiences - but your original point was that "the demo" was not the best way to evaluate cable hotness, so you were talking about cable. Please be clear.Nielsons ratings are so inaccurate that theyve been ruled in court that theyvebeen barred from being used to uphold contracts at any level. The MRC disaccredited Nielson in 2021. After 19 months in 2023 Nielson was able to get reacredited by the MRC. They still are working to get their legal standing back.



Tl;dr they arent exactly the industry standard

[Tom Guycott]

For AEW, their biggest revenue source is their US television contract. That money comes from advertising. The value/effectiveness of that advertising is measured, stop me if I'm wrong, by Nielson, who consider 18-49 to be the key metric.

Now you're saying that cable isn't the best way to reach audiences - but your original point was that "the demo" was not the best way to evaluate cable hotness, so you were talking about cable. Please be clear.

The larger point, though, is that those numbers are being cherrypicked for moving goalpoasts.

For example, a lot of responses as of late have been about how Meltzer will spin the importance - or lack thereof depending on the week - of the overall number or a particular demographic if hit helps AEW sound like they're doing better than WWE in any way. However, if WWE is the clear victor in any way, it will be deflected in "Oh, well those numbers aren't important" or "the lack of ratings are the fault of [insert excuse or event that is always something beyond AEW's control] or "this isn't a competition anyway" type of drivel.

Getting the supposedly coveted cash cow of "18-34 males", overall, doesn't mean what it used to. Neilson isn't compiling what is being streamed on phones or for people catching clips via YouTube or social media, or even the potential (but not likely) bump they'd get from people who load shit on their DVRs but possibly never get around to watching it.

But again, it isn't about what AEW is or isn't getting. It's not about the supposed boatload of money they got from TV rights. It's about projecting superiority for their flagship broadcasts in particular against WWE's training vessel c-show... on the occasions where there's a win or a tie.

"It only counts if we're winning" type shit.

[Tom Guycott]

Willie Mack has been pulled from GCW shows because of the conflict between those two promotions. For those who haven’t followed, wrestler Effy made comments about AEW running the Hammerstein Ballroom so close to GCW. He pointed out that Tony Khan and AEW had financial advantages that GCW didn’t and made a quip about Tony Khan being paid by Shad to go away.

I had no clue Wille Mack even worked for AEW. His last match was for ROH in October lol.

I think we’re beginning to see Tony Khan crumble. He’s entering his Caligula phase.

It's essentially the same thing at this point. Even though ROH is allegedly a separate thing, at least half of the "regular" roster consists of AEW contracted talent (other half were folks under contract while the OG company went under), although sometimes used in a different capacity. For example, Wheeler Yuta is supposed to be a big deal there, but on AEW TV, he has perpetual lackey energy.

Willie Mack had wrestled a few matches for AEW both before and after Tony's ROH purchase. And again, even though they are supposedly two different wrestling companies under two different corporate umbrellas, it's all Tony's toybox and he can do whatever he wants. Like take his toys back when he gets his feelings hurt.

[Big Vic]

What percentage of posts in this thread are about Dave/ratings?

So like between 90%-100%?

[xrodmuc316]

So like between 90%-100%?

It's only increased because the ratings thread got bounced for being too toxic.

I seem to remember a lot of gifs of Seth Rollins dancing being posted by somebody :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The larger point, though, is that those numbers are being cherrypicked for moving goalpoasts.

For example, a lot of responses as of late have been about how Meltzer will spin the importance - or lack thereof depending on the week - of the overall number or a particular demographic if hit helps AEW sound like they're doing better than WWE in any way. However, if WWE is the clear victor in any way, it will be deflected in "Oh, well those numbers aren't important" or "the lack of ratings are the fault of [insert excuse or event that is always something beyond AEW's control] or "this isn't a competition anyway" type of drivel.

Getting the supposedly coveted cash cow of "18-34 males", overall, doesn't mean what it used to. Neilson isn't compiling what is being streamed on phones or for people catching clips via YouTube or social media, or even the potential (but not likely) bump they'd get from people who load shit on their DVRs but possibly never get around to watching it.

But again, it isn't about what AEW is or isn't getting. It's not about the supposed boatload of money they got from TV rights. It's about projecting superiority for their flagship broadcasts in particular against WWE's training vessel c-show... on the occasions where there's a win or a tie.

"It only counts if we're winning" type shit.

Excellent post.

The demos aren’t power levels. Yet you have Meltzer comparing them like a 0.0007 on cable is more valuable than a 0.0008 on network. The value advertisers put into content is going to be determined by things more nuanced or self-determined than the general 18-49 demo. There’s a big difference between a 39 yr old trucker from Alabama and an 18 yr old kid from Philadelphia.

Advertisers decided a while ago that wrestling just wasn’t as valuable as other things of a similar or smaller demo. And when it comes to wrestling, WWE is going to carry favour based on their brand penetration. It’s ridiculous to look at the numbers Dynamite gets, compare part of them to part of what NXT gets, then claim that Dynamite somehow “wins” anything from it.

[Tom Guycott]

The bitch of it is that AEW could have established their own brand at this point; to have a long-game shot at being the Pepsi to WWE's Coke*... as opposed to a children's lemonade stand that sells snowcones flavored with piss and Red Bull. When they get told nobody wants to drink piss outside of a VERY specialized market, and even there, that urine is curated from a particular type of source that is likely to be exclusively "young, attractive, wauflike, disease free females with a diet that lacks things like asparagus" instead of the male communal piss trough they insist on drawing from. You know, since they don't need advice. They are doing "fine" with their piss beverage, and anyone saying otherwise "are just haters". 18-49 year olds love our yellow snowcones! Until they find out. But that's not AEW's fault. The local Jr High volleyball team is playing at the school across the street. They got their rights deal money, so we can just keep selling Frozen Piss Bull to the ever dwindling audience that knows our greatness and are willing to LEARN... unless you question who a random lucha newcomer is, because you should know from Cagematch or intrinsically IYKYK!




*if I wasn't going to stay with the beverage analogy, I would have gone for the Coca-Cola vs cocaine low hanging fruit of either TK or NWA. Just letting you know I thought of it even though I didn't go that way.

[Destor]

The problem is clear and in an ideal world it would signify to arm chair bookers everywhere that no matter how much they like the smell of their own farts they dont know shit about booking.

It wont though. Theyll think the problem is localized to TK. It isnt. Just like this should also signal that if you had infinite money you wouldnt suddenly become successful. You would fail miserably and die broke.

Promoting events is hard. Running a business is hard. You need talent as much as you need opportunity. And yeah holy fuck does tk not have any. The guy walked in with a carefully constructed product with hot angles and hot workers and a counter culture it factor that you cant manufacture and squandered it entirely.

It wouldnt fix because AEW is a meme now but he's gotta give up the book. Its not working. Its objectively not working.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That’s very true. There are so many intangibles when it comes to running things. TK doesn’t seem to have the talent to manage people — especially wrestlers and their politics. It’s also more than just putting names on paper against each other and having someone go over with a move. Being a worker helps you understand how to book through the action — not just around it.

You’d think Tony would have removed himself for those hero points by the now, but I think there is something in the psyche of people like TK and Dixie Carter that drives them to spend their money playing wrestling promoter that prevents them from stepping back.

[weather vane]

Dymamite mint tonight.

[weather vane]

AEW worth 2 billi!!!! sick league

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW isn’t even worth 2 billion yen.

[Tom Guycott]

The problem is clear and in an ideal world it would signify to arm chair bookers everywhere that no matter how much they like the smell of their own farts they dont know shit about booking.

It wont though. Theyll think the problem is localized to TK. It isnt. Just like this should also signal that if you had infinite money you wouldnt suddenly become successful. You would fail miserably and die broke.

Promoting events is hard. Running a business is hard. You need talent as much as you need opportunity. And yeah holy fuck does tk not have any. The guy walked in with a carefully constructed product with hot angles and hot workers and a counter culture it factor that you cant manufacture and squandered it entirely.

It wouldnt fix because AEW is a meme now but he's gotta give up the book. Its not working. Its objectively not working.

It is a bit beyond "Tony needs to give up the book"... he also needs to alsi actually delegate responsibility and actually listen to oeople who know what the fuck they're doing about the business of wrestling. As opposed to saying shit like "that's a good question..." and then proceeding to not answer said question.

[Tom Guycott]

That’s very true. There are so many intangibles when it comes to running things. TK doesn’t seem to have the talent to manage people — especially wrestlers and their politics. It’s also more than just putting names on paper against each other and having someone go over with a move. Being a worker helps you understand how to book through the action — not just around it.
.

But even there, he's already proven he can't even "book around" the action. There is zero action. "I have X talent now, and they can have a match against Y and Z and possibly W... for the next three weeks! Dream match!" Even if that talent having matches against those other three names could have been potentially stretched over the next six months and getting folks to at least tangentially care about the lead up to them finally having said match.

For example, Ricochet vs Bandito could have potentially been a blockbuster match for AEW. And I'm writing it off already. Why? Because not only do I know Tony is going to blow that load as soon as he can possibly get them in the same ring... And not only do I think the match will be set up ASAP to pop a number for Rampage or Collision instead of headlining a future PPV (and I don't mean the very next PPV)... I already know he already treated Ricochet the same way, so he doesn't mean as much as he did when he came in.

So, with all that "math", I know they're both just going to be another flippy guy on a roster full of them by next March because Tony doesn't have the impulse control to play the longer game. And, in that same stretch, he's going to come up with another dumbass gimmick to push on par with The Librarians, Orange Cassidy, that pizza guy, and Hologram.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You’re correct, sir. Sorry that my replies are not lengthy, but you pretty much nail it.

Very smart of them to embarrass Ricochet 2 weeks ahead of him scheduled to headline the Tokyo Dome. That AEW/NJPW relationship has to be strained.

[xrodmuc316]

To be fair, Ricochet embarrasses himself no matter what AEW does :rofl:

[Tom Guycott]

Looks like I've been proven wrong... thanks to the dropkick concussion upon Bandito's return, he's minimized faster than I predicted. :nono:

[The Rogerer]

Nielsons ratings are so inaccurate that theyve been ruled in court that theyvebeen barred from being used to uphold contracts at any level. The MRC disaccredited Nielson in 2021. After 19 months in 2023 Nielson was able to get reacredited by the MRC. They still are working to get their legal standing back.



Tl;dr they arent exactly the industry standardWhat is the industry standard then? How does any of this work?

[The Rogerer]

The larger point, though, is that those numbers are being cherrypicked for moving goalpoasts.

For example, a lot of responses as of late have been about how Meltzer will spin the importance - or lack thereof depending on the week - of the overall number or a particular demographic if hit helps AEW sound like they're doing better than WWE in any way. However, if WWE is the clear victor in any way, it will be deflected in "Oh, well those numbers aren't important" or "the lack of ratings are the fault of [insert excuse or event that is always something beyond AEW's control] or "this isn't a competition anyway" type of drivel.

Getting the supposedly coveted cash cow of "18-34 males", overall, doesn't mean what it used to. Neilson isn't compiling what is being streamed on phones or for people catching clips via YouTube or social media, or even the potential (but not likely) bump they'd get from people who load shit on their DVRs but possibly never get around to watching it.

But again, it isn't about what AEW is or isn't getting. It's not about the supposed boatload of money they got from TV rights. It's about projecting superiority for their flagship broadcasts in particular against WWE's training vessel c-show... on the occasions where there's a win or a tie.

"It only counts if we're winning" type shit.Being cherrypicked by who, Dave Meltzer?

These conversations are circular. It's another assertion that "TV ain't what it used to be", we all know that. Repeated posts about how it's apparently ridiculous that advertisers consider working age adults to be more valuable to advertise to than children or older people. We track ratings but you can't trust the ratings because everything's made up.

Okay, so nothing means anything then. Great discussion. Shame I can't watch Dynamite any more since WBD didn't renew AEW's deal. Oh wait this thread constantly got things wrong. That's what Meltzer does!!! You're all a bunch of Meltzers!

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be fair, Ricochet embarrasses himself no matter what AEW does :rofl:

It’s crazy how guys go to AEW and just flip out. I’ll take credit for that pun. I think it’s partially the environment and culture there, partially the wrestlers’ mentalities themselves. AEW attracts a certain type of crowd.

Looks like I've been proven wrong... thanks to the dropkick concussion upon Bandito's return, he's minimized faster than I predicted. :nono:

I guess shit happens, but it does seem to be typical AEW for a guy to crash and burn like that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol at Worlds End. Or — as the bots would call it — World End(s).

[Mr. Nerfect]

So TNA gets this SportsNet deal in Canada, right? It’s a good deal for them. Dave cannot help himself. He writes up this thing that reminds people they got kicked off Spike and alleges that SportsNet was in talks with AEW, but AEW chose to stick with TSN because of the money.

Jimmy Korderas jumps in — quite obviously with ties at SportsNet — and points out that AEW tried to get a deal with SportsNet, but SN opted to go with TNA — it had nothing to do with AEW getting more money from TSN.

Dave claims that part of the story is “irrelevant.” It doesn’t matter who picked up the phone first. :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The AEW mole said that AEW was handing out approved questions to participants at the Worlds End scrum.

[Lock Jaw]

*Sportsnet

[Mr. Nerfect]

*Sportsnet

That’s irrelevant.

[Lock Jaw]

Just irked me as a Canadian to see the brand continually miscapitalized.....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I apologize. Don’t want to disrespect any cold, heartless brands here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEWShop’s search bar was displaying anything that had been searched for. So naturally you would type in a wrestler’s name and all sorts of vulgar things would pop up to meet you.

[Lock Jaw]

I apologize. Don’t want to disrespect any cold, heartless brands here.

Thank you.

Anyways... I won't be watching TNA or AEW anytime soon.

I'll probably tune in to the first RAW and SD on Netflix and then promptly go back to largely ignoring WWE except for big events.

I guess that I might watch more PLEs and not just Rumble/Mania (and sometimes Summerslam and Survivor Series).

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can’t believe I’m actually rooting for TNA.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, ROH put up a disclaimer at their show saying that anyone in the ringside area is assuming the risk of injury or damage to property by being in that area.

[xrodmuc316]

Tony got his new deal, and immediately re-bought Elton John's song, and also bought "Im So Excited" for Dynamite, so clearly he is being more fiscally responsible now with plans to recoup the losses of the last 5 years :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I bet you all that talent is going to re-sign for reasonable amounts too. Especially the men who see what Jon Moxley can do at his rate of pay, and the women who see Mercedes Mone at hers.

The Hurt Syndicate probably cost >$5 million ALONE.

Meltzer has been pretty much called out for just making up that they’re going to be profitable. Tony has to be able to keep things within budget and be prepared for what happens if the TV rights deal is minimized or even taken away.

Looking forward to Dave’s studied analysis on the Dynamite ratings/MAX numbers this week. He got upset when Variety or some entertainment outlet conflated the NBC viewership with Peacock views. I expect those principles to be betrayed in lieu of flat-out lying about how AEW does on MAX.

[The Rogerer]

You post very interesting discussion points but WHERE'S THE BEEF? Oh this isn't true and this isn't true and this isn't true. Say something, preferably something that isn't talking about Dave Meltzer

[Mr. Nerfect]

Chris Charlton has been sent on “indefinite hiatus” for calling Tony Khan a money mark via English commentary at the New Japan shows over the weekend. He also questioned what Okada, Jay White and Ospreay have done since signing with AEW and compared the Continental Classic unfavorably to the G1.

Charlton is absolutely correct about everything, but that stuff doesn’t need to make air. That’s Matt Striker level stuff. We don’t need “Stone Cold” Chris Charlton. Talk about the power vacuum top NJPW stars leaving for AEW has created, sure. That’s the story they’re telling in NJPW. But there’s a commentary-friendly way to navigate that.

Tony Shiavone jumping in and telling Charlton to “GFY” and take a shower sometimes is a bit rich though. By this stage, everyone knows Shiavone lives in the colon of whoever his employer is, but “Speak, bitch” Shiavone can’t really talk about doing a polished or professional job in 2025.

AEW and Tony Khan continue to be massively insecure as well.

[xrodmuc316]

So a NJPW commentator got suspended by NJPW because he risked his company from being cut off financially by hurting Tony Khan's feelings?

That sounds exactly like the way a Money Mark would react :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah. There’s a reason that sentiment exists among NJPW fans. Is either side going to examine that in the business relationship? Probably not.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It was hilarious a few months ago when Dave said the new TV deal would prove TK isn’t a money mark. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. You can tell how much it bothers Tony Khan (because it’s true).

[The Rogerer]

It was hilarious a few months ago when Dave said the new TV deal would prove TK isn’t a money mark. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. You can tell how much it bothers Tony Khan (because it’s true).Meltzer?

[xrodmuc316]

Seriously the best Tiny Klown can come up with for Bobby Fucking Lashley is for him and Shelton to fight Private Party lol. But Switchblade Brian Kendrick is in the main events?!?!?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Remember when AEW was trying to convince people they had a great tag team division? They even got Dave to say it was the best tag division ever.

[Lock Jaw]

Seriously the best Tiny Klown can come up with for Bobby Fucking Lashley is for him and Shelton to fight Private Party lol. But Switchblade Brian Kendrick is in the main events?!?!?

Brian Kendrick in main events? Tony must have heard that Noid doesn't like him, and, needing approval from this stranger on the internet, has started booking Brian Kendrick in main events in hope of garnering praise from Noid.

[The Rogerer]

Remember when AEW was trying to convince people they had a great tag team division? They even got Dave to say it was the best tag division ever.Meltzer?

[xrodmuc316]

Brian Kendrick in main events? Tony must have heard that Noid doesn't like him, and, needing approval from this stranger on the internet, has started booking Brian Kendrick in main events in hope of garnering praise from Noid.

Yeah, they call him Jay now for some reason!

[Lock Jaw]

Oh, so it wasn't really Brian Kendrick but that Jay White guy? Damn..... built my whole joke on a falsehood.....

I even thought "isn't switchblade that other dude's nickname?" but then thought nothing of it....

[Lock Jaw]

I guess because I plausibly believed that Brian Kendrick could be in AEW main events....

[Mr. Nerfect]

He was going to be, but David Bixenspan reminded people he was a Holocaust denier at one point in his life. Kendrick would very likely be in the Death Riders or feuding with them right now due to his connection with Bryan Danielson. He’d also likely be agenting Ronda Rousey matches in ROH.

And if TK wanted to impress me, he’d have signed Doug Basham to help with developmental 5 years ago. Bit late, Tony. :nono:

[Mr. Nerfect]

People in on the New Japan side of things are saying that they find TK a pain to deal with and there are lots of frustrations with the AEW deal. The directive to suspend Chris Charlton for his on-air comments about TK and AEW was allegedly made by Tony who “demanded he be punished.”

[Mr. Nerfect]

A Saturday’s Night Main Event is being listed opposite All In this year. AEW are boned lol. Projections are for about 16k for All In. WWE can probably pack more people into an arena for SNME.

[Mr. Nerfect]

MLW drew more for their Kings of Colosseum show than AEW did for the Edge/Jericho Collision.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Great news for AEW! Collision beat the NXT replay — 337k to 279k. They’ve also cleared 1k tickets distributed for their Maximum Carnage show in their World Champ’s home city.

[BFP]

I'm happy to see AEW overtaking NXT and the Maximum Carnage show looks like it's going to be a big hit!

[The Rogerer]

Did Nerf get embarrassed about making 5 posts in a row and have to make a new account?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Another LolAEW moment: They were advertising Grand Slam Australia for the same time as the NBA All-Star coverage would be airing on TNT. Now it’s presumed to be airing after the NBA in a ridiculous time slot.

Also, it was listed here as “AWE: Grand Slam” at one point.

[xrodmuc316]

What ever happened to Rampage? Surely once Smackdown moved to 3 hours Tony would have been hyped to go head to head, it is where the best wrestle afterall!

[Mr. Nerfect]

WBD would have kept it, because they love all things AEW, but they actually had humanity in mind. They knew too much of an amazing thing would just be too much. It’s why they haven’t picked up ROH either.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Corbin fixing for a job at AEW lol. The marks that talked a lot of shit about him as a wrestler better be ready to work their spin when he’s suddenly their A1 guy.

[The Rogerer]

Another LolAEW moment: They were advertising Grand Slam Australia for the same time as the NBA All-Star coverage would be airing on TNT. Now it’s presumed to be airing after the NBA in a ridiculous time slot.

Also, it was listed here as “AWE: Grand Slam” at one point.Listed here?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Britt Baker is apparently on the outs too.

[The Rogerer]

Listed here?

[The Fraze]

AEW seriously sucks but The Fraze still watches parts of Dynamite.

[Tom Guycott]

Corbin fixing for a job at AEW lol. The marks that talked a lot of shit about him as a wrestler better be ready to work their spin when he’s suddenly their A1 guy.

... you mean the same way AEW flavored manbabies are convinced that Penta showing up in WWE instantly made people start rooting for him out of spite instead of the fact that he has had significantly less* sloppy showings in his two outings on RAW thus far? He is getting the point across of the gimmick without needing to do a 20 minute spotfest? He kinda seems like a version of the Kevin Smith story where he was talking about how Jay Mewes tightened on taking his overall performance both on camera and off seriously during Dogma because he "don't want to piss off that Rickman dude." HHH is apparently Penta's "Alan Rickman".

I'm sure it has nothing to do with him being presented better in an environment where they tighten the leash on stupid shit. Not that. Or the fact that WWE has moved past a lot of the dumbass "this person never existed before showing up on our doorstep or even in some cases never worked in our own company before you just halluncinated their career under a different trademarked name" in recent history. None of that.

Just automatically appealing because he is no longer in AEW in and of itself is the conclusion "tHe SiCkOs" come to. :nono:


*less sloppy, but still a bit reckless. The attempted slingshot thing he wanted to do where he expected the ropes to be tighter and it just didn't work out, shame you you. Plancha where he pretty much missed Gable, shame on... uh me... Plancha where he pretty much missed Pete Dunne... shame... uh... won't get fooled again. Heh!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve only seen the one Penta match, but it’s pretty obvious WWE knows how to get more out of talent than AEW. Ethan Page is an obvious example. Being “meh” in AEW is par for the course.

Ricky Starks asked for his release and got denied. Nothing surprising there. But it’s hilarious to see AEW marks defend it like it’s good business. AEW is creating hype around these guys and making themselves into the villain of the story. It’s not good business to keep wrestlers signed just so they can’t be used elsewhere.

AEW marks are also trying to blame Starks for it — the usual “he won’t do business” shtick. That doesn’t make sense. Word would get back to WWE and poison the well for them. Starks is being punished because he was allied with Cody and Punk — possibly compouned by him not becoming a Chris Jericho guy.

[xrodmuc316]

Remember how evil WWE was when they wouldn't release Grizzled Young Vets because they were in the middle of a story, but then kept using them on TV until their contracts expired.

Then once they finally were free of that slavery, they got to.go to the great haven that is AEW, and have had like 3 full matches in a year?

FUCK EVIL WWE!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vince is evil when he does it. “Vince did it” is justification when AEW does it.

[The Rogerer]

I’ve only seen the one Penta match, but it’s pretty obvious WWE knows how to get more out of talent than AEW. Ethan Page is an obvious example. Being “meh” in AEW is par for the course.

Ricky Starks asked for his release and got denied. Nothing surprising there. But it’s hilarious to see AEW marks defend it like it’s good business. AEW is creating hype around these guys and making themselves into the villain of the story. It’s not good business to keep wrestlers signed just so they can’t be used elsewhere.

AEW marks are also trying to blame Starks for it — the usual “he won’t do business” shtick. That doesn’t make sense. Word would get back to WWE and poison the well for them. Starks is being punished because he was allied with Cody and Punk — possibly compouned by him not becoming a Chris Jericho guy.Where are these things happening because it's not here

[xrodmuc316]

How much time/how many segments is AEW going to dedicate on declaring Malakai Black was an asshole holding the rest of House of Black back?

[Mr. Nerfect]

He is big stinky pants who doesn’t like AEW anymore.

[Mr. Nerfect]

LOL, Dave Meltzer is trying to push the narrative that WWE are only working with TNA to block AEW from getting TV. AEW doesn’t need any help hurting themselves. They barely got a US deal.

He’s also trying to remind people that “working with WWE bad.” Yeah, um — that’s not the case anymore. Even if you want to look at things cynically, deals with other promotions make sense from a PR and legal perspective. WWE is also trading on good will. AEW is the entity that chews up other promotions (New Japan, ROH, Impact, AAA).

Dave also doesn’t expand on why WWE would want AEW to go under. It’s not like they’re a threat. The arms race is between AEW and TNA. But why are they helping TNA? Is it because they’ve figured something out and aren’t blowing up the entire business?

[The Rogerer]

Meltzer?

[The Rogerer]

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[Mr. Nerfect]

Add Deonna Purrazzo to the list of talent unhappy in AEW. She’s upset she’s not being used more/better. I don’t know what she expected from AEW. See ya back in TNA.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, Sean Ross Sapp is saying that they’ve heard that AEW is one of the most streamed shows in the sports category on Max. No number is attached, so it’s probably not very impressive.

[xrodmuc316]

Lol, Sean Ross Sapp is saying that they’ve heard that AEW is one of the most streamed shows in the sports category on Max. No number is attached, so it’s probably not very impressive.

They have never been listed on Max's top 10. Raw on Netflix on the other hand, are pretty consistently in the top 5.

Let's not let facts get in the way of some good AEW Schilling though :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It can mean anything. These people play with rankings like being the 4th most watched “sport” on a streaming service that doesn’t specialize in it means something. It’s like when the sickos bragged about Orange Cassidy’s merchandise sales. Then numbers for another wrestler doing a “record week” came out (might have been Danhausen), and from that you could extrapolate that the dude sold barely any t-shirts lol.

20k people could get you “ranked” as one of Max’s highest streamed sports. These shills can give numbers or gtfo with that soft talk.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s just like how they hid the number of ticket sales for All In 2025 behind the revenue for the first sales. They’re en route to sell about 16k for that show if they’re lucky.

They should just call it “Parade of Champions” and be done with it.

[xrodmuc316]

Oh shit, he did say it was among the top streamed live sports, I didn't read that well.

Does Max even stream other sports besides boxing? So AEW is 2 of 2... WHAT A MANEUVER :rofl::rofl:

They do have the sports package for an extra $9.99 a month, but AEW is not included in that package anyways. Surely a reputable wrestling journalist wouldn't be comparing AEW's viewership to the viewership of events behind an additional paywall to make them look better, right?

What a wildly unbiased thing for one to do.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I haven’t looked into it, but it would be funny if they’re comparing it to a premium package they’re not a part of. I read that the NFL that gets streamed there gets <50k. It’s obviously not the preferred delivery method for football, but I can’t imagine AEW doing better than that. The sports package doesn’t sound like it’s all the rage.

WBD are also “guarding” the numbers apparently. What does that tell you?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I read a report for Collision, just to see what will get absolutely destroyed by SNME. Then I had to watch the segment. The Toni Storm stuff has been horrible. It’s WrestleCrap. People turned a blind eye to it for a long time for some reason though. Maybe because everything else in AEW sucks? Maybe it’s because they’re simping for the lesbian elements?

But on Collision they paid off the “Toni is pretending to have amnesia” gimmick. But it came after Mariah May absolutely kicked her ass. She got beaten down then just revealed she was playing a role the whole time. Wtf was the point? It makes ZERO sense.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Their promos were fucking horrible too.

[XL]

People weren’t turning a bling eye to it at all. They were praising it as some of the best stuff on wrestling tv.

[Mr. Nerfect]

People weren’t turning a bling eye to it at all. They were praising it as some of the best stuff on wrestling tv.

Come on. It’s fucking terrible.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m seeing people defend it. She got her ass kicked then was like “Ha! I was only pretending to be stupid!” :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Got an idea for WWE. Becky comes back and she starts acting like a movie star. “Blockbuster Becky.” She wants to be nominated for “Best Actor” because she’s “The Man.” She wins the belt then loses it to her lackey, Lyra. Becky goes back to Irish dancing and says it’s her first time in WWE. Then Lyra kicks her ass and Becky gets up and says “I was just ACTING like I had forgotten you betrayed me!”

Brilliant.

[Mr. Nerfect]

In more “AEW botches everything” news:

The House of Black have a new look (well, two of them). Brody King and Buddy Matthews are now street thugs. Julia is still dressing like a sexy witch Halloween costume model.

They’ve just…been dumped by Malakai Black. They didn’t kick him out of the group or anything. Wrestling fans are going to see him return to the WWE and look like a guy breaking free of the minor leagues, while they’re still clinging to the flailing faction concept.

Their name is also horrible. They call themselves “The Hounds of Hell.” Bush league as hell.

I can tell you this is going to fail from the outset. It’s not that there’s no talent in the group. But no one there is looking out for them and they clearly don’t give a shit if they fall on their ass. The optics of this group clinging to each other after Black blows the coop is too soft a start.

You knew Black was leaving months, if not years ago. He’s been miserable there since near the start. Why you didn’t segue into new roles for The House of Black while he was there is baffling. It’s like when they still had Matt Hardy playing a heel even though they knew Jeff was coming in. Or how they knew they were going to turn Mox on Danielson and didn’t do any foreshadowing.

If you know Black is leaving — and they did — you can book backwards. When Darby did his thing with Brody King (was it around WrestleDream?), why wouldn’t Brody being a henchman for Black come up? Why wasn’t that used to move towards Darby vs. Black at some point between then and now (they had two PPVs)? Why wouldn’t the other House of Black members “break free” themselves and become stars?

You had forever to tell that story. Now you’re stuck with the Right to Censor minus Stevie Richards.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, AEW have put Omega & Ospreay against Fletcher & Takeshita in Australia. I don’t think Australia really cares about the Aussies in AEW, but the fans buying tickets probably do more so. I don’t why they’d put Ospreay & Omega against a guy from the country. They people going are also probably aware of New Japan, so they are probably aware of how awesome Takeshita is.

It’ll probably just be “This is awesome!” chants from the few thousand people going as they all trade forearms, but it’s pretty reckless booking to put Omega & Ospreay in a situation where the crowd could flip the script and start cheering the Aussie lad against the overpushed wankers.

Dave Meltzer had to remark on Observer radio that AEW selling 2-for-1 tickets to Brisbane would imply sales aren’t going well. No shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sick of hearing from people that Omega is a draw. It crops up when people discuss his involvement in New Japan. Except the show he was advertised for and arguably built around him (albeit poorly) only drew 16k fans to the Tokyo Dome. The venue holds over 40k.

I’ve seen fans suggest that they should have used Omega for Wrestle Kingdom on the first night. Same with The Bucks. Maybe the reason ticket sales were down is because they were there? The solution may not be more of that thing.

Omega is back off a life-threatening condition. He’s moved the needle nada. People just don’t care about his output as a wrestler outside the deluded Observer bubble. I bet the tickets are just flying now that he’s been announced in a match with 3 other “superworkers” as Dave is trying to coin.

[xrodmuc316]

It has been 14 months since Miro had a match in AEW LOL

[xrodmuc316]

The only people who care about Omega at this point are the people who were already watching AEW.

AEW is a Ponzi scheme. All they do is promise these great future returns, all the while they continue in a downward spiral. Streaming on Max, that was gonna be a huge surge. Not only have TV ratings not improved, but they haven't even come close to 100,000 viewers on Max. It is just the same people who were already watching.

They moved their huge stadium Grand Slam show out of a 50,000 seat venue because there was little interest. Now they are slashing ticket prices and offering 2 for 1 because there is very little interest in the same event at a 13,000 seat venue either. All In Texas in a 45,000 seat baseball stadium has been stuck at 15,000 tickets, and now they are crying because that evil WWE is running a SNME on the same day. Because that is why the ticket sales haven't moved for 6 weeks before WWE's announcement.

Everything is amazing though, Will Ospreay's Meltzer stars surely mean AEW is still fitting to change the world, JUST WAIT!! :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It has been 14 months since Miro had a match in AEW LOL

A smart and mature way to handle talent relations. I’m sure history will smile fondly on them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The only people who care about Omega at this point are the people who were already watching AEW.

AEW is a Ponzi scheme. All they do is promise these great future returns, all the while they continue in a downward spiral. Streaming on Max, that was gonna be a huge surge. Not only have TV ratings not improved, but they haven't even come close to 100,000 viewers on Max. It is just the same people who were already watching.

They moved their huge stadium Grand Slam show out of a 50,000 seat venue because there was little interest. Now they are slashing ticket prices and offering 2 for 1 because there is very little interest in the same event at a 13,000 seat venue either. All In Texas in a 45,000 seat baseball stadium has been stuck at 15,000 tickets, and now they are crying because that evil WWE is running a SNME on the same day. Because that is why the ticket sales haven't moved for 6 weeks before WWE's announcement.

Everything is amazing though, Will Ospreay's Meltzer stars surely mean AEW is still fitting to change the world, JUST WAIT!! :rofl:

Tony Khan did no market research for the Australia show. None. 0.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Random memory: People telling me I didn’t understand video games and that the AEW video game would be fun. :lol:

[The Rogerer]

Where are those people right now?

[JT]

Random memory: People telling me I didn’t understand video games and that the AEW video game would be fun. :lol:

Non-ironically, I thought I'd like it because I'm a No Mercy fanatic. However I only played it for a day, and then never played it again.

[JT]

I don't think I've watched AEW now since All In 2024, and even then I've been sporadic since World's End 2023. Nothing makes me feel invested in it... I like MJF, but even he can't keep my attention because nothing in that company seems to matter.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Non-ironically, I thought I'd like it because I'm a No Mercy fanatic. However I only played it for a day, and then never played it again.

It was never going to be anything like No Mercy. You were better off just playing No Mercy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

MJF feels like a try-hard edgelord. The act is tired. I’m pretty sure the face turn was done to sabotage him. And it worked.

[xrodmuc316]

So their former World Champion Samoa Joe comes back from being off filming Twisted Metal, and they think the best use for him is...

In a tag team match against Kip Sabian and Nick Wayne :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Joe’s going to be an interesting case when his contract is up. Artistically, people would assume he’d go back to WWE, but Tony must pay him by the truck. Plus he gets to serve as a spy for Triple H and Nick Khan.

I can’t believe Kip Sabian still works there. Joe vs. Christian reeks of TNA. Taz being on commentary cheering Joe on doesn’t help.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t know if Tony is really trying to make a big deal out of Collision or if he’s trying to destroy the show. They announced a Ricochet interview, a Chris Jericho match, a Harley Cameron segment and a “Mid-South Street Fight” between the most boring heel faction of all-time and the most boring face faction of all-time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW couldn’t sell 2,200 tickets for Dynamite and Collision this week.

[Lock Jaw]

Joe vs Christian reeks of good TNA though.....

Back in its golden age when Christian was a main eventer....

[Mr. Nerfect]

Had a lot more potential then than now. I might go back and watch some. TNA have a lot of their PPVs up on YouTube. Better Joe/Christian, less Wayne/Sabian.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Big Boom AJ copping flack from the sicko squad because he appeared in a toy company spot wearing a WWE belt. :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hope he’s one of the “WWE super fans” they show in the crowd at the Royal Rumble cheering on all his favorite WWE Superstars.

[Mr. Nerfect]

GCW sold more Hammerstein tickets than AEW. :lol:

[weather vane]

AEW so deadly

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tony Khan trying to do damage control on the Brisbane show. Says it was always scheduled to be a TV show. Why wasn’t it advertised as that then? He said TNT came to them about airing after the All-Star game and they saw it as a tremendous opportunity. So why was it advertised by AEW in its regular slot?

The whole show is going to get clowned.

TK also says that they don’t have “all the numbers” yet, but they’ve been told they’re doing better than some other sports. Yeah, by Sean Ross Sapp. They know they are doing better than some things…but they don’t know what the numbers are?

Dead in the water.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW so dead

Fixed it for accuracy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Now that Johnny Curtis is making appearances in NXT again, the game is truly over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Chris Jericho refutes the notion that he hurts careers. He then went on the list a bunch of derailed careers he claims to have helped.

Has ANYONE from an AEW Chris Jericho faction ended up better for it? Not Sammy, not Hager, not Santana, Ortiz, MJF, Sammy again, 2.0 or whatever they were called. Daniel Garcia has been pushed down people’s throats, but he’s arguably in a worse spot creativity.

No one benefits from working with the guy anymore.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I read that Mark Davis randomly turned heel and became part of the faction he had turned against on Dynamite so I just had to watch some clips for a laugh.

Cope is wheezing and pointing to a tiny crowd they can’t show in wide shot referencing himself as being the only guy over. He challenges Moxley to a PPV a month away…because. Gotta give the guy time to prepare, I guess.

Jay White cuts one of the worst promos I have ever heard challenging Moxley’s group to a “good ol-fashioned Brisbane Brawl.” Ah yes — that old classic. It’s going to be “2 on 2, anything goes” against a faction with 5 people in it. White is also teaming up with long-time friend Edge, as opposed to HIS ACTUAL FACTION.

Can Juice Robinson and The Gunns get out there please?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nah, I can’t anymore. This show is fucking unwatchable. I was going to do a point-by-point thing but it’s not even worth watching the clips. Much more fun to comment on the news and high school drama.

Jimmy Korderas pointed out that MJF’s promo on Dustin Rhodes (oh yeah, he’s feuding with the other Last Outlaw now — yes 2 guys in AEW have the same nickname) reminded people that Cody left and went to the other company. Any other promotion in history would have (and did) cop shit for that. WCW and TNA used to get roasted for channeling the spirit of more over WWE guys.

MJF lashed out and called Korderas a “bald grifter” and said he had been brainwashed by his old boss into pretending other companies don’t exist.

Not sure MJF should be going after people’s hair. And now they don’t just look like the drunk ex leaving voicemails for Cody and Punk, but they’re also displaying small dick energy against former WWF refs.

Did anyone have “Stone Cold” Jim Korderas on their bingo card?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It looks like Elias is going to AEW with a knockoff Wyatt Family gimmick. :lol:

This promotion is the gift that just keeps on giving.

[Lock Jaw]

Was just thinking of Elias the other day and what a big spotlight/push he got... only to never win any titles or really do anything but lose...

[Mr. Nerfect]

He wasn’t the worst wrestler that ever lived, but the whole Elias gimmick was really overrated.

[Mr. Nerfect]

James Romero is posting some great AEW-related content. A lot of Aussies upset about having their seats downgraded with Grand Slam being moved to a smaller building.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The sickos tried to do AEW a solid by blaming the confusion around Grand Slam’s PPV status on fans. AEW then sends out a tweet (which they have since edited) calling it a PPV. :lol:

[Big Vic]

Was just thinking of Elias the other day and what a big spotlight/push he got... only to never win any titles or really do anything but lose...

Hey he was the 24/7 Champion! Give him some respect!

[Evil Vito]

AEW's in-ring product is still very much what I enjoy in my wrestling and I still watch Dynamite most every week. But I'm more in the "DVR and just watch the matches" territory now.

The promos/segments are largely just not doing anything for me at all. Like MJF/Jarrett as a match interests me because I've come to appreciate Jarrett so much more as time has gone on, he understands the assignment better than just about anyone in wrestling. But watching them try to out-edgelord each other in promos is just intolerable.

Death Riders just make me groan. Actually liked like they got their segment over with very quickly last week, and I shouldn't feel that way about the world champ. A stable that includes Mox, Claudio, and PAC shouldn't make me feel dread but it just feels like the same fucking thing every week with them and it's getting go away heat.

[Evil Vito]

TK's worst moments as a booker are when he gets so insistent on following through the angle he wants to do regardless of crowd reaction, roadblocks etc. It's very obvious Death Riders are deadening the crowd and yet he keeps ramming ahead with it.

I assume he wants Darby to take the belt off Mox to "save" AEW from this terrible reign and bring the title out of the briefcase. Except Darby's not going to be back for months. So that means this terrible angle is just gonna keep going even though the crowd is rejected it at every turn. Balls.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tony says he is a stats guy. He said ratings are the best indicator they have as to what fans want. Nope.

Dude’s a liar. Also, can you remember the last time TK said anything intelligent, witty or insightful? He’s not very talented when it comes to wrestling. It’s a bought position in a vanity project. AEW’s legacy will be that it was there for a bunch of wrestlers and dirt sheet writers working to tell this guy with all the money in the world that he has talent.

Wrestling fans used to get upset John Cena and Roman Reigns were “shoved down their throat.” That language doesn’t pop up as much anymore, but it would be appropriate to say that Tony is trying to shove a lot of less talented people down our throats. AEW is a lot of things people claimed they used to hate about WWE.

And the wrestling is ass.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It looks like Ricky Starks and Miro might have gotten free of the company.

[Evil Vito]

Ricky Starks will go straight to WWE, the writing's been on the wall for a while there. Feel like Ethan Page is getting moved to the main roster soon, which would leave a nice vacancy for Starks to come in and do his thing.

Miro I'm less sure of because it's seemed he's had a lot of personal shit going on. If he wants back in WWE I'd be surprised if they said no but I could just as easily see him exploring opportunities outside of the business, doing streaming or other things. Or just getting paid bank to do signings and work indy squashes. Hopefully he's happy wherever he ends up.

[Evil Vito]

Random "unrelenting passage of time" factoid: As of April 1st, Cody's announced departure date (February 15, 2022) will be the exact midpoint of AEW's company history.

[Lock Jaw]

Pretty sure Rusev could easily walk back into WWE if he wanted to... and he'll probably end up in the exact same position as Andrade....

Guy who leaves WWE for AEW because he's unhappy with his position.... but then is unhappy at AEW and comes back to WWE to find themselves now not in as good a position and possibly worse than before they left.

[xrodmuc316]

Between WWE releasing a bunch of people and now AEW releasing a few, it seems like Tiny Khan will overpay for some new toys for sure!

Seriously though, AEW will likely sign Cedric so they could have the whole Hurt Business collection. Maybe Blair Davenport depending on if her and Will Ospreay dont have bad feelings. I could also see giving the Good Brothers another run.

Tony is also likely to sign whoever best convinces Tony they think he is a cool guy and they should be friends.

For THE WWE, Triple H loves Black, and Starks will certainly get a shot. Not too sure about Miro. Yes he started in NXT, but he was a tailor made Vince push until he lost weight and got himself over as a babyface, so not sure if Triple H will want him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tony is going to give Cedric a 7 figure deal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE is rubbing their hands with glee.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Starks, Black and Rusev would all be good WWE additions.

[Big Vic]

WWE already fumbled Rusev

[Lock Jaw]

And they'd be glad to do it again

[Evil Vito]

I think Starks will get more concentrated focus on him in WWE, especially given he’s gonna have two big backers in Cody and Punk. But for all that people seem to think the WWE grass is greener under Triple H than Vince, it should also be said that it’s an era with not only very few potential top spots (almost always the case in WWE), but with PPV cards being the shortest they've ever been. There’s just far fewer opportunities to get actual high profile bookings in the first place.

Is a Ricky Starks or a Miro walking into a PPV match when the World Champion didn't even get booked at the Royal Rumble? Not only not booked in a match - he didn't even appear.

There's not really a role you can slot Ricky Starks in to that I don't think they have someone else filling to the same or even higher standard. They have a stacked main event picture, and a decent amount of people they clearly see as the future prospects.

If/when WWE bring him in, I'm sure he would be featured prominently at first, everyone will talk about how AEW "dropped the ball" with him and how now he's going to be booked like a real star. And then quietly forget about all that when he misses four or five PPVs in a row, and settles in to around the same level he plateaued at in AEW.

I’d expect a good NXT run from him, who knows on the main roster. I’m wishing him well, he’s a great talker, good look, decent wrestler. Not sure his ceiling is as high as it’ll be promoted as being.

[xrodmuc316]

And there he is! Absolute

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Starks will get more concentrated focus on him in WWE, especially given he’s gonna have two big backers in Cody and Punk. But for all that people seem to think the WWE grass is greener under Triple H than Vince, it should also be said that it’s an era with not only very few potential top spots (almost always the case in WWE), but with PPV cards being the shortest they've ever been. There’s just far fewer opportunities to get actual high profile bookings in the first place.

Is a Ricky Starks or a Miro walking into a PPV match when the World Champion didn't even get booked at the Royal Rumble? Not only not booked in a match - he didn't even appear.

There's not really a role you can slot Ricky Starks in to that I don't think they have someone else filling to the same or even higher standard. They have a stacked main event picture, and a decent amount of people they clearly see as the future prospects.

If/when WWE bring him in, I'm sure he would be featured prominently at first, everyone will talk about how AEW "dropped the ball" with him and how now he's going to be booked like a real star. And then quietly forget about all that when he misses four or five PPVs in a row, and settles in to around the same level he plateaued at in AEW.

I’d expect a good NXT run from him, who knows on the main roster. I’m wishing him well, he’s a great talker, good look, decent wrestler. Not sure his ceiling is as high as it’ll be promoted as being.

Gunther was on the Royal Rumble. He was shown walking into the building in a suit with the belt over his shoulder. PPV isn’t what it was. You don’t get paid extra based on buys. It’s a streaming special. TV spots are presented like PPV matches at times.

[Evil Vito]

Good for Starks. Keen to see what he does in NXT.

They've gone out of their way to not say his name, even the YouTube videos say "The NXT debut that shocked the world".

My immediate takeaway is not that they're giving him something from the NXT name generator but rather that they're emulating the Scott Hall WCW debut. You know who he is, but you don't know what he's here.

[Evil Vito]

Ricky Starks is his real name (well, Richard Starks, but nicknames fall under the same issue), back in the day that would cause a bit of a legal roadblock from WWE since you can't trademark a real name and they wanted to own it. Jade Cargill kept her name. Brian Pillman Jr. didn't but it was his own idea as he deliberately wanted to do something totally different rather than get a standard second generation gimmick.

He debuted so insanely fast after his release that I could buy maybe they're still sorting out the backend legal/IP stuff but I'd assume in due time he's Ricky Starks and this was a clever workaround in the interim.

[Lock Jaw]

Could be either or. Not like the name Ricky Starks is particularly known or anything..... I guess neither was Jade Cargill, but from what I have gathered she was a "bigger deal" than Starks ever was.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s probably just to drive interest. They’ve known he’s been coming in for a long time.

[Sepholio]

They need to get Danhausen next.