All Elite Wrestling

[Helmsphere]

The only way Adam Cole could deliver any type of believable offense to Britt is if he threw his Nintendo switch like 4 inches from her face, I don't believe he could throw it any further. Honestly surprised he can lift a Nintendo Switch.

Britt must be a power bottom.

[XL]

Trash take, as Waltman allegedly abused Chyna.

Waltman might have been smaller but he had educated feet and about 60lb more muscle mass than Cole. BAY-BAY.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This Britt Baker shirt fiasco might actually be my favourite AEW fail. Especially because you know Britt was super proud of the shirt.

[xrodmuc316]

FTR Bald is crying again (I know, BIG surprise)

Speaking with WhatCultureWrestling, Harwood discussed how, in his view, tag wrestling hadn't been prioritized since the era of the Hardys, Dudleys, Edge and Christian, and how tag team psychology got lost in the process. And he feels, in WWE, that can only change on the whim of McMahon.

"It all depends, in that company, on one man," Harwood said. "And if he does prioritize tag team wrestling, it will allow that whole genre to shoot up."

Read More: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1273107/dax-harwood-laments-vince-mcmahon-refusing-to-prioritize-tag-team-wrestling-in-wwe/


Didn't this idiot JUST wrestle a singles match? How does that help tag team wrestling?? :?:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tag team wrestling matters more in WWE than it does AEW. The Usos, Zayn/Owens, New Day, Street Profits — all star teams. You’ve chosen your bed, now lie in it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

FTR took the money. That’s good for them. But don’t try and spin it like you’re doing God’s work for tag team wrestling lol. The top team there refuses to do a third match with you and is allergic to tag team psychology.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Britt Baker is a totally self-absorbed twat.

[Destor]

The baker T shirt is a bad shirt just i general but the concept that its offensive for promoting domestic violence implies that any woman hurt anywhere should be assumed a man assaulted her. That premise should be rejected as the malign farse it is.

[Destor]

"I saw a women today with a broken arm. What kind of a monster could do that to a women?"

"My waitress is missing three front teeth. Her husband must be a real bastard."

"Did you see her black eye? I hope the guy goes to prison."

The fuck is this dumb shit trying to passed off as logic?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Must’ve missed something wtf is going on with the Britt black eye shirt?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yeah that was certainly a bootleg tshirt. Only shirt I can remember WWE officially releasing with blood was the red Austin 3:16 shirt that had him bleeding from his match at Mania 13.

Yeah that wasn’t too bad.

Now if they would’ve made a t shirt with Debra’s bloody face on it, that would’ve been in poor taste.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lol!

[Destor]

Must’ve missed something wtf is going on with the Britt black eye shirt?twitter being twitter mostly. Their logic is one step away from assuming all crimes are committed by black people and dont even realize it.

[xrodmuc316]

Yeah that wasn’t too bad.

Now if they would’ve made a t shirt with Debra’s bloody face on it, that would’ve been in poor taste.

Touché

[Mr. Nerfect]

I just saw a clip of Omega’s horrid promo after Takeshita’s beat-down. Holy shit, he is awful. He also stooges himself out to be a total asshole every time he opens his mouth. He addresses Tony “Instead of letting the inmates run the asylum for once.” Um, dude…

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s a good thing Matt and Jeff are here to save AEW’s ratings with more TNA bullshit at the Hardy compound. Because AEW is an alternative. :y:

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First day ticket presales for All In topped 35,000.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1653441822268731392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[weather vane]

Is that good errrr?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It depends on how you look at it. 35k is normally a good number, but in terms of filling Wembley?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I still wonder if CM Punk is even coming back for them at all. The news you get is entirely out of the AEW camp. Given that Punk is probably cleared and would likely have something in his contract that says he can’t just be benched, it would make sense that AEW has to make pitches like bringing Punk back for Collision or All In, etc. Those get reported by misleading parties as “Punk is aching to do this because we r so cool.”

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s absolutely crazy this is all going on at a period where your three EVPs are renegotiating their deals as well. I’m trying to think of a similar situation. I guess it would kind of be like if Shawn’s deal was expiring in 1997 as all the Montreal shit went down.

[slik]

Is that good errrr?

Definitely, since it was just the presale not all seats for sale yet

[weather vane]

I was being cheeky. AEW is always good. Best promotion ever.

[xrodmuc316]

And JUST when you think AEW might be able to present themselves as a more prestigious company with a high ticket sale count, the spastic owner starts flipping out on Twitter :rofl::rofl::rofl:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LIES. What a load of crap. Tell your agent Nick Khan to shove it up his ass</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1653485894102384640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Pissant owner, Pissant Company

[GD]

:rofl:

[slik]

Only Tony Khan can take what's a big win and turn it into a situation where he throws a tantrum like a child

[GD]

AEW is drama central :rofl:

[Sepholio]

Coke man must be dry because TK clearly jonesing in that post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Embarrassing

[GD]

Coke man must be dry because TK clearly jonesing in that post.

👉 🤪

[Lock Jaw]

Can't imagine what is even going through his mind.... smdh

[GD]

Can't imagine what is even going through his mind.... smdh




<iframe width="802" height="451" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/31EAOmQK1ts" title="The CM Punk Gratuitous Ass Shot Video" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Can't imagine what is even going through his mind.... smdh

The train of thought seems to be that Nick Khan is telling his clients to tell blatant lies about AEW. These can’t just be proven as lies when actuality unfolds, they need to be called out ahead of time because they hit a sore spot because…maybe there’s more sting in them than there would be if they were completely fabricated?

It’s a mess.

[weather vane]

AEW selling that many tickets for Wembley is wild. Just the premier entity in sports entertainment.

[slik]

Up to 45k in tickets in presale, half-sold out

[Sepholio]

Seems so strange that things get sold in a presale. Such a stupid concept. It's a sale.

Just a general thought I had, nothing to do in particular with AEW doing pretty damn good in sales it seems. Hope they sell out.

[slik]

Podcaster Will Washington of Grapsody joins AEW


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He's the new AEW Wrestling Administration Coordinator,<br>working in many areas of wrestling: live events, social media, creative, PR,<br>he has a great wrestling mind,<br>he's here backstage TONIGHT at Wednesday Night <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> live on TBS, and it's official, <a href="https://twitter.com/WilliamRBR?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WilliamRBR</a> is All Elite! <a href="https://t.co/QTXIx1qroU">pic.twitter.com/QTXIx1qroU</a></p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1653899780601397250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Lock Jaw]

Call me when they get Abraham Washington

[xrodmuc316]

Gotta love them using one event to celebrate like they are on fire, while COMPLETELY ignoring all the 3000 ticket events for Dynamite :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[#1-norm-fan]

Up to 45k in tickets in presale, half-sold out

Already the largest wrestling gate ever in England apparently. NOT BAD.

[rez]

Podcaster Will Washington of Grapsody joins AEW


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He's the new AEW Wrestling Administration Coordinator,<br>working in many areas of wrestling: live events, social media, creative, PR,<br>he has a great wrestling mind,<br>he's here backstage TONIGHT at Wednesday Night <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> live on TBS, and it's official, <a href="https://twitter.com/WilliamRBR?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WilliamRBR</a> is All Elite! <a href="https://t.co/QTXIx1qroU">pic.twitter.com/QTXIx1qroU</a></p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1653899780601397250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hopefully it's someone that can reign in Tony's cringe Tweets. gg

[rez]

AEW doesn't need Tony belittling a low level espn blogger again (attaching WWE Kahn).

Calm down, Tony. You just had a good draft and probably will win the AFC South/sell out Wimble.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">tpww and rajah forums in the mud</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1653944509154353152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh this mother fucker right here

[Supreme Olajuwon]

SHOW YOURSELF COWARD

[#1-norm-fan]

Nice! Trips hi-fiving himself in the hallway over that free publicity.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">tpww and rajah forums in the mud</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1653944509154353152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh this mother fucker right here

I never liked that Shawn Ross Sapp, what a jerk!!! :rant:

[Vastardikai]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">tpww and rajah forums in the mud</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1653944509154353152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh this mother fucker right here

That is the Thigh Rubber's third most profound tweet. Behind the time he forgot to switch to one of his sock accounts when trolling GOC and the tweet that earned him the title of "Thigh Rubber."

... As you do.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seems so strange that things get sold in a presale. Such a stupid concept. It's a sale.

Just a general thought I had, nothing to do in particular with AEW doing pretty damn good in sales it seems. Hope they sell out.

I always think of the George Carlin bit. “What does pre-board mean? To get on before you get on?”

[Rammsteinmad]

Good for them on 45k presales. Even if they don't completely sell out Wembley, that's a great result for them.

[GD]

That's genuinely very impressive. I hope they capitalize on this and promote stadium shows in the future as well. I remember how "special" Grand Slam felt even though it wasn't on the same scale. The crowd was so hype for Bryan and Omega.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Good for them on 45k presales. Even if they don't completely sell out Wembley, that's a great result for them.

There’s a chance for it to look visually impressive, but it’s a bit of a mythbuster in terms of AEW’s UK presence. If you were Tony Khan, with the perceived positive of it being your largest crowd to date aside, you’d be able to see there is still lots of work to do. But he seems more interested in yelling at people and taking self-owning shots at Nick Khan.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

They’re opening up more seats and now attendance looks like it’s gonna push the 60k mark. There’s no objective way to perceive this as anything other than a win.

[xrodmuc316]

They’re opening up more seats and now attendance looks like it’s gonna push the 60k mark. There’s no objective way to perceive this as anything other than a win.

How are the 52 Dynamites a year drawing? Seems 1 show in another country is a real flashy distraction to avoid noticing the declining attendance and ratings :rofl:

[weather vane]

Best to ever do it. TK.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

And Tony Khan announces they’ve cleared 60k in ticket sales

[xrodmuc316]

And Tony Khan announces they’ve cleared 60k in ticket sales

Not bad, but also kind of weird there are already 1600 resale tickets available, at a lower price than face value, during a presale... :rofl:

[#1-norm-fan]

And Tony Khan announces they’ve cleared 60k in ticket sales

:eek:

[XL]

They’re opening up more seats and now attendance looks like it’s gonna push the 60k mark. There’s no objective way to perceive this as anything other than a win.

How are the 52 Dynamites a year drawing? Seems 1 show in another country is a real flashy distraction to avoid noticing the declining attendance and ratings :rofl:

Well.

[Sepholio]

I feel like a lot of people shit on things AEW says/does, like the sales numbers for All In for example, simply because they know TK or one of the wrestlers is going to spaz out publicly about it. It's internet 101. I should know as I fish for reactions all the time.

[Frank Drebin]

Its impressive for sure but it amounts to flash in the pan status. One show does not necessarily amount to long term success. Not to mention that if the show winds up being flat it could be pretty detrimental.

I liken a show like this to the US Women's World Cup. The final will draw huge ratings and trend (:roll:) on social media but its just the novelty of the spectacle. Afterwords, no one cares unless you have a plan and can hold onto a chunk of that audience.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, the show sucking will hurt them. I can imagine talent will get snippy if they miss out on spots too. Can’t wait for that wave of drama.

Tony Khan buying up them tickets.

[Destor]

Its impressive for sure but it amounts to flash in the pan status. One show does not necessarily amount to long term success. Not to mention that if the show winds up being flat it could be pretty detrimental.

I liken a show like this to the US Women's World Cup. The final will draw huge ratings and trend (:roll:) on social media but its just the novelty of the spectacle. Afterwords, no one cares unless you have a plan and can hold onto a chunk of that audience.
The big issue we'll see AEW struggle with is as the novelty has run its course and AEW isnt doing "1st time ever" houses how (or can) they keep filling the seats. No one is immune to this issue. Its not a uniquely non-WWF issue. I suspect however that it will be a massive issue for this company. Maybe not in the UK though. The product seems very UK friendly as far as historical tastes are concerned.


As they tour theyll do well in just about any city thats a wrestling town but will people come back each time? Ehhhhh

[Lock Jaw]

I don't care about AEW in the slightest... but I'd still go to a live show in a heartbeat. I think that was one of my conclusions from my couple of months of watching them... that the television show wasn't that great as a television show, but as a live show it would probably be very enjoyable, probably more than a typical RAW/SD/House Show.

[#1-norm-fan]

I feel like a lot of people shit on things AEW says/does, like the sales numbers for All In for example, simply because they know TK or one of the wrestlers is going to spaz out publicly about it. It's internet 101. I should know as I fish for reactions all the time.

WELL THE TRUTH COMES OUT.

[#1-norm-fan]

Maybe not in the UK though. The product seems very UK friendly as far as historical tastes are concerned.

What do you mean by that?

[Frank Drebin]

Destor is a notorious "continentalist" who treats anyone outside of North America as beneath him or anyone of North American descent.

[Sting Fan]

The ticket sales are a great outcome for AEW.

WWE has used overseas tours as money makers and worldwide brand builders for decades. AEW doing similar is good business for a less than 5 years old company. Whether this event makes money or loses it is probably largely irrelevant but if they sell 50k+ tickets it’s probably at least a break even and has potential to materially increase brand reach and loyalty.

[xrodmuc316]

For the record, this is the same thing that has irked me since day one. They do a flashbang to get attention, pretend it means they are red hot, and berate anybody who doesn't buy in to their viewpoint fully.

[Destor]

What do you mean by that?the UK has always been a good market for more technical products

[XL]

For the record, this is the same thing that has irked me since day one. They do a flashbang to get attention, pretend it means they are red hot, and berate anybody who doesn't buy in to their viewpoint fully.

Again WWE are in 3 different countries for their next premium shows. WWE in the freezing cold US market mud!

[xrodmuc316]

Again WWE are in 3 different countries for their next premium shows. WWE in the freezing cold US market mud!

Cool, where are all the examples Triple H and the wrestlers having a tantrum over that?

[XL]

I’m not on twitter but I’m sure they are on there somewhere.

[Mr. Nerfect]

For the record, this is the same thing that has irked me since day one. They do a flashbang to get attention, pretend it means they are red hot, and berate anybody who doesn't buy in to their viewpoint fully.

Bingo

[xrodmuc316]

I’m not on twitter but I’m sure they are on there somewhere.

You would be incorrect.

[GD]

There's something to be said about Punk's whole shtick in WWE being about change and he never really did anything about it. Like a politician, he benefited from the gimmick but that was the extent of it. In contrast, Cody Rhodes, along with the Bucks, were able to forge a new alternative with TK. Sure it's not as big as WWE and it might never be. But it's still a place for wrestlers to make a living. While I don't know much about the backstage politics of the new place, the way Punk swooped in and tried to influence his way to the top, it felt very disrespectful and self serving. The way he behaved at the press conference, any normal employee would've gotten released. Now that they're creating an entire new show around him, it might as well just validate his insanity further.

[weather vane]

Yeah he’s a huge loser but he draws. I can’t wait for him to come back.

[GD]

Yeah he’s a huge loser but he draws. I can’t wait for him to come back.

There's no denying that he's a very valuable asset. Even in his prime, he didn't look out of place when he was feuding with Cena or defending his title against The Rock. That being said, it feels like he's being rewarded for his bad behavior. Which doesn't sit well with me. And this is coming from someone who started watching wrestling again during the summer of Punk angle.

[Tom Guycott]

She def looks like a DV victim. I get not noticing it at first cuz you’re all caught up in “being a badass” but maybe when it’s brought to your attention, don’t double down lolol

This Britt Baker shirt fiasco might actually be my favourite AEW fail. Especially because you know Britt was super proud of the shirt.

I'm a bit late on the commentary party around this, but the biggest difference between Lynch's broken nose, and Baker's black eye, is the EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND IT!

The the base images themselves are a "time and place" thing, and the difference between a National Geograpic photographer getting the perfect image to set a mood, and a police photographer proccessing someone into the drunk tank.

Seriously, Britt does look like she was invoved in domestic abuse... but not in the Adam Cole prob'ly beat her way. All jokes about his mass loss aside, it looks like she downed a couple bottles of hard liquour, thought about an argument or comment only tangentially related to her man, and then started fucking Adam up out of the blue, folks tried to pull her off, and she got in a legit drunken fight with all of them talking about how what she's doing isn't their business. Somewhere along the way, cops were called in the alley behind the bar, and she got a shiner from the multiple people she's trying to grapple with or the police. Someone posted this pic to instagram instead of trying to help one side or the other. And now, in addition, she has a similar looking mugshot at the local police precint.

This, as opposed to Becky being in an arena, getting massive hardway, but continuing the angle while wiping blood from her nose with her forearms and talking mad shit to the opposing team of wrestlers. And in spite of the gusher, she's still full kayfabe "I'LL COME BACK TAKE ALL YOU BITCHES ON MYSELF" swagger. In a well lit arena. Surrounded by fans and giving the aura of badassery.

[XL]

You would be incorrect.

Well I only have your word for that and you’ve got a bit of a reputation for being mildly negative about AEW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Being negative about AEW is not the same thing as being incorrect about them. AEW certainly does have a record of its executives having tantrums when WWE runs opposition (Omega and Tony Khan have both done this). WWE can surely be petty in their own way, but the tantrums are textbook AEW at this point.

[The Rogerer]

I think the tantrum's been well covered at this point. Why do we think the ESPN guy decided to post something completely untrue? *gets in to the spirit of the thread* ESPN more llike extremely small penis nerds

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think he either heard a passing remark from someone no selling AEW and made a flippant remark or got told it would be a funny joke.

It’s not a planted lie. Nick wouldn’t set a buddy up with false information like that. Plus it is so easily verified as false if false. There’s most likely a sting of truth about AEW scaling back the building and/or concern about the ticket sales, and that rubbed TK the wrong way.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Either way, TK reacted in a way that would make an enemy smile. It’s not winning him any allies, that’s for sure.

[The Rogerer]

Can you explain what the 'sting of truth' about there being concern about ticket sales were, when that number was immediately far exceeded? Very confusing statement.

He may have 'heard a passing remark' but who would have been making such a remark? Why did an employed sports journo pay attention to this remark? Seems like a really bad boo boo.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Because no one gives a fuck about AEW. Tyson Fury and Dillian Whyte sold 85k tickets within hours. 35k isn’t getting any sports journo’s panties wet. It’s just nerd wrestling fans who want to rep for the little engine who could.

He may have heard ticket sales weren’t going well and they were going to scale the building back to meet those numbers, which is what they’re obviously going to try and do. It’s just where that line is. Then you have to contend with what’s sold versus what the actual attendance is. Would be funny if the number ended up being 45k.

But yeah, read any article about wrestling and feel the disgust a lot of journalists have for it. Could simply be this Coppingher guy just doesn’t give a shit enough to get it right, could be that he has inside information that TK doesn’t like.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE sold something like 59k thousand in the presale for Clash at the Castle. About 64k ended up attending. Whatever the number of tickets sold for AEW may not not jump that drastically by day of the show.

Is there an official number out there? People seemed satisfied with 35k at first. That number could imply an attendance of 38k by the end. I’m sure if things are that bad, TK is buying them up himself, but it’s not insane to think that a 40k cap was realistic if you wanted to be honest about things.

[The Rogerer]

He may have heard ticket sales weren’t going well and they were going to scale the building back to meet those numbers, which is what they’re obviously going to try and do.They've sold like 70k tickets???

[xrodmuc316]

Well I only have your word for that and you’ve got a bit of a reputation for being mildly negative about AEW.

And how is that, exactly? Because I dont blindly cheerlead for them? I watch Dynamite, ive bought many of their PPVs, and have posted about lots of things they have done that I have enjoyed.

But that has been the point all along right? I think their public relation skills absolutely suck. They do everything possible to look like idiots.

And why do you only have my word for it? Ive never seen WWE wrestlers or Execs do something like brag about not being racist because they employ people of color. Ive never seen WWE personal telling people who offer the slightest criticism to go fuck yourself or shove it up your ass. Ive never seen anybody in WWE spaz out over AEW running a show. There are countless websites that cover everything wrestling, where are all the stories about Triple H berating fans on Twitter?

If they werent so childish, and werent led by a spoiled weirdo, they would be so much more enjoyable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They've sold like 70k tickets???

Have they? Who is saying that? Meltzer? AEW themselves? Had they at the time? The number I remember seeing was 35k. Maybe they’ve sold more since then, but 35k for Wembley might make a reporter turn up their nose a bit. Especially if there is heat between them and certain AEW parties.

It’s way more likely than a conspiracy theory that suggests Nick Khan is throwing his friends under buses because…well, for no reason if they sell more than 40k tickets.

It’s Tony Khan having a meltdown because things don’t go 100% his way, per usual.

[The Rogerer]

You quoted a post that said 45k in this thread last week, so well done in not remembering that. Last official announcement was 60k on Friday. Various estimates over the weekend from looking at Ticketmaster have been anywhere now from 70k to 75k but obviously those can be unreliable.

It's good this though, good to visit a place thread to chat with people who have, say, 2,500 posts in the thread and they don't have the first clue what's actually going on, or what they've even said themselves.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You sound a bit sore. It’s irrelevant what I quoted. The number I saw (and probably this Coppingham guy too) was 35k. I did a quick search and the only numbers I can find come from AEW. Not sure I’d call them reliable. I guess TK could have bought up a bunch of tickets himself too though. Doesn’t really have relevancy to the convo we are having though.

[The Rogerer]

You sound a bit sore. It’s irrelevant what I quoted. The number I saw (and probably this Coppingham guy too) was 35k. I did a quick search and the only numbers I can find come from AEW. Not sure I’d call them reliable. I guess TK could have bought up a bunch of tickets himself too though. Doesn’t really have relevancy to the convo we are having though.I think the only contradictions here have been: you getting the numbers wrong, and now you saying what Coppingham did - he said he was 'told', you're now saying he made the assessment himself?

I believe it was 35k sold on the first day of the presale. If I'm to believe you, this is basically the limit of what should have been sold. Since I'm helpful, I've got a headline written for Coppingham: "AEW Bucks the Trend in Unprecidented Sales Surge. Owner Tony Khan Kicks Out At One. World Record Breaking Ticket Purcahses."

[Mr. Nerfect]

I believe it was 35k sold on the first day of the presale.

And that’s when this guy commented. That’s literally all that matters. Nothing else is a “contradiction.” I don’t know why you’re so confused by this.

[The Rogerer]

And that’s when this guy commented. That’s literally all that matters. Nothing else is a “contradiction.” I don’t know why you’re so confused by this.He commented that the arena was only set up for 40k, then made an allusion about other events on the arena that were neither here nor there.

You yourself have gone back and forth on the numbers, the meaning of his statement, his motivations. I'm just trying to understand what happened and this guy's professional assessment?

Is it very strange and unusual that 35k tickets had sold on day 1 of the presale, but the presale ended up at 50k and then general sale added another 10-20k sales in a few days? That seems to be the heart of what we're establishing here - that when 35k tickets were sold, that was basically considered the limit. Have your socks been blown off by the updated numbers? Has this ESPN guy been floored by a massive unexpected turnaround? Why did he get it so wrong? What happened?

[Mr. Nerfect]

He commented that the arena was only set up for 40k, then made an allusion about other events on the arena that were neither here nor there.

You yourself have gone back and forth on the numbers, the meaning of his statement, his motivations. I'm just trying to understand what happened and this guy's professional assessment?

Is it very strange and unusual that 35k tickets had sold on day 1 of the presale, but the presale ended up at 50k and then general sale added another 10-20k sales in a few days? That seems to be the heart of what we're establishing here - that when 35k tickets were sold, that was basically considered the limit. Have your socks been blown off by the updated numbers? Has this ESPN guy been floored by a massive unexpected turnaround? Why did he get it so wrong? What happened?

Yes, he did make that comment after 35k seemed to be the number. I don’t think his comments about other events are neither here nor there.

No, I haven’t gone back and forth on the numbers. You’ve tricked yourself on that one. I saw 35k and only yesterday found Forbes articles quoting AEW themselves saying 60k. I’ve speculated on where this guy might have been coming from. What makes sense to me is that he looked at the numbers released and/or heard things. That’s obviously stung Tony Khan, hence his nervous response.

I don’t really trust the latest numbers to be honest lol. They seem to come from AEW themselves or hardcore fans speculating. I wouldn’t be shocked if Tony Khan bought up tickets or scalpers did scale up the sales, but I think we’re a little way off from seeing what actual attendance for this thing is.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What I don’t believe is Nick Khan calling in favors with ESPN journalists to put their credibility on the line to make statements that are going to be demonstrably false in a day. That sounds like a Tony Khan construct to me.

[The Rogerer]

Yes, he did make that comment after 35k seemed to be the number. I don’t think his comments about other events are neither here nor there.

No, I haven’t gone back and forth on the numbers. You’ve tricked yourself on that one. I saw 35k and only yesterday found Forbes articles quoting AEW themselves saying 60k. I’ve speculated on where this guy might have been coming from. What makes sense to me is that he looked at the numbers released and/or heard things. That’s obviously stung Tony Khan, hence his nervous response.

I don’t really trust the latest numbers to be honest lol. They seem to come from AEW themselves or hardcore fans speculating. I wouldn’t be shocked if Tony Khan bought up tickets or scalpers did scale up the sales, but I think we’re a little way off from seeing what actual attendance for this thing is.
Seems like quite the scandal. I'm sure I'll hear about it here first

[xrodmuc316]

Speaking of Ticket Sales...

According to WrestleTix, Double or Nothing has currently filled a respectable 6,807 of the 9,872 seats for which the show is set up at Las Vegas's T-Mobile Arena or 69% of available tickets. Ticket movement has been slow, with only 222 tickets being distributed since the last update on April 5.

In addition to the slow sales, Double or Nothing has also set up a smaller capacity, with only 9,782 made available so far, down from last year's Double or Nothing, which sat over 13,000 fans.

Read More: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1279515/aew-double-or-nothing-2023-sales-at-69-capacity-selling-just-over-200-in-last-month/


Why are they offering 3000+ less tickets for All Out?
Why have they sold only 222 tickets in the last month?
Why isn't Tiny talking about how Vegas is red hot for AEW?

Just seems strange he is completely ignoring All Out ticket sales, since he loves talking about ticket sales so much, right? Makes you wonder...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is it common for AEW shows to sell a certain number of tickets and then double that amount? Seems like they start off with the interest they have and then it turns into a trickle. That’s why if the 60k number is true, I wouldn’t be shocked to discover they were secondary market or bought by Khan himself to distribute. Will be interesting to see how many people are actually in the building come show time.

Also, fuck that Double or Nothing number is disappointing. Between that and their ratings, I don’t know how anyone can argue that the product is “hot.” They obviously have to run new markets to achieve anything close to a sellout. They’ve run into trouble as soon as they go back to somewhere they’ve already run.

[Vastardikai]

I will point out that the UK was one of the few markets white hot for TNA/Impact at one point. So, there is that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There hasn’t been a wrestling show in Wembley since 1992. There is a hunger for anything to fill that void. It doesn’t need to be good.

[XL]

And how is that, exactly? Because I dont blindly cheerlead for them? I watch Dynamite, ive bought many of their PPVs, and have posted about lots of things they have done that I have enjoyed.

But that has been the point all along right? I think their public relation skills absolutely suck. They do everything possible to look like idiots.

And why do you only have my word for it? Ive never seen WWE wrestlers or Execs do something like brag about not being racist because they employ people of color. Ive never seen WWE personal telling people who offer the slightest criticism to go fuck yourself or shove it up your ass. Ive never seen anybody in WWE spaz out over AEW running a show. There are countless websites that cover everything wrestling, where are all the stories about Triple H berating fans on Twitter?

If they werent so childish, and werent led by a spoiled weirdo, they would be so much more enjoyable.

Dunno man. Seeing is believing.

[weather vane]

The only downfall of the ignore feature is that it doesn’t block the posts when quoted. Shame.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The only downfall of the ignore feature is that it doesn’t block the posts when quoted. Shame.

We definitely need more troll accounts like this. :y:

[weather vane]

A cool bill for AEW over 5 years? Is that good?

[xrodmuc316]

We definitely need more troll accounts like this. :y:

The only downfall of the ignore feature is that you still know who can't get off AEW's dick. *cough weathervane cough* SHAME!!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s gone beyond the point that they can even rattle off specifics. It’s devolved into “AEW is great, trust me.”

[Mr. Nerfect]

A cool bill for AEW over 5 years? Is that good?

Not really. My prediction for the TV deal would be TK pushing for the total amount of his current deal over one year of the new deal. That would be ~$180 million per year, which is less than what WWE currently charges for 2 hours of their content.

Over 5 years, $180 mil pa is $900 million. That’s pretty close. Keep in mind that Rampage and this new Collision show are a part of that, plus any specials and the possible back library (if they’re even interested in that), it’s not really surprising at all.

Given that Warner currently splits ad revenue and pays $45 million in rights fees for Dynamite, the show should currently have an estimated value of at least $450 million over 5 years under the current arrangement for Warner to not be losing their ass on it.

I also guessed that when the deal was announced, Dave Meltzer and the like would make a huge deal about it, act like it’s the biggest thing ever and AEW has won, ignoring that the deal still takes them under 1 of WWE’s current shows, and that WWE is probably about to negotiate to roughly double that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If WWE doubles it’s TV rights when their deals are up and gets $1 billion per year out of Raw and SmackDown, that means AEW would be getting $50 million per year versus $200 million per hour each year of their contract, putting AEW’s hourly value at about 25% of what WWE’s will likely be. That seems about in line.

[xrodmuc316]

Once upon a time I made a thread about what WWE was going to do with all their new deal money. I am wondering what AEW will do.

Unlike WWE, AEW is private so they don't have to worry about stockholders. I wonder if the first of the new money would go towards paying Shad back. The early talk was Shad fronted the money at the chance of obtaining a lucrative rights deal. As time went on that changed to Shad letting Tony blow some of his inheritance while Shad was still around.

If the new TV deal can cut the dependence of Shad's money out of the equation, will Tony overspend even more? If he is giving 6 year deals to Brian Cage now, what happens when he needs no approval? Should be interesting to see.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It will be interesting to see if talent ask for more money or if he can get more WWE guys and girls to sacrifice their dignity to appear on his show for obscene amounts of money. I doubt any of it helps the quality as long as he wants to be creatively in charge.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Apparently people with Amazon preorders for Fight Forever are receiving emails giving an estimated release date of January 2024. Because they totally know what they are doing.

[XL]

Oof.

[Evil Vito]

Pretty sure those e-mails went out a long while ago. Amazon sets those dates up purely placeholders when they don't have an actual release date.

That said it's beyond comical now that the game was announced like 900 days ago and yet you're able to play as Cody in a WWE game earlier than this game ever comes out.

[Evil Vito]

I was willing to forgive the long release time for a while, wanting them to get it right vs. rushing it out. But we've gone well beyond that point now. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't have put out a perfectly functionable wrestling game by now with a few basic match types, a decent roster, and a story mode to get the ball rolling.

These kind of delays can really only be that Kenny or whoever keeps wanting more shit added, not realizing the amount of work that actually goes into it since every single thing you add not only requires programming/coding but also carries the risk of breaking something else, requiring even more cleanup.

The stories that come out about this game's development will be amazing.

[Triple A]

I always wondered if the CM Punk thing has anything to do with the game being delayed. Since he was on the cover and would help the game sell... maybe they wanted to make sure they're "allowed" to put him in the game and back on the cover? idk if that has anything to do with it, but just wondering!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I always wondered if the CM Punk thing has anything to do with the game being delayed. Since he was on the cover and would help the game sell... maybe they wanted to make sure they're "allowed" to put him in the game and back on the cover? idk if that has anything to do with it, but just wondering!

I don’t think so. The rumors were that Punk was just going to be left in the game because it would be too much effort/money to take him out. Plus they probably paid for his music and all that. Cody is still scheduled to be in the game.

It’s way more important to put in dancing mini-games and Molotov cocktails than it is to get the game out in timely fashion.

By the way, I still say it looks like shit — both in terms of aesthetics and how smooth the gameplay doesn’t look.

This game is just going to make people want to whip out their N64s and play No Mercy. It’s going to be like when Homer Simpson designed the car.

[Evil Vito]

AEW: Duke Nukem Forever

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It’s going to be like when Homer Simpson designed the car.

This is a fantastic reference and you deserve to be commended.

[xrodmuc316]

FTR Bald and Hair out there running his mouth again that All In will be the most important show in professional wrestling history :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Why they have to go full on hyperbolic for every single thing ever? Seriously if they stop setting impossible expectations they wouldnt have so many letdowns.

[Vastardikai]

Seriously, it would have been cheaper to have just used the MDICKIE engine, hired a graphics team to make it look good, and pocket $20 million.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is a fantastic reference and you deserve to be commended.

Lol thanks. It’s odd it fits so well.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The All In show hasn’t happened yet guys. Let’s see how mad you are when you’re left off the card. :y:

[xrodmuc316]

The All In show hasn’t happened yet guys. Let’s see how mad you are when you’re left off the card. :y:

Yep, reports are already coming out that talent is upset that Will Asspray is going to get a All In match while they are not.

[Sting Fan]

At this point the games on the never never for me.

Not a bad week all around for AEW, TV deal sounds like a solid step up for a business of there age, British event selling well.

While the ratings trend is a concern to me as an uneducated watcher of those things the company paying for the product dont appear to be phased so theres either more to it or AEW has been outperforming in the networks eyes to date.

I would love to know where this new TV deal leaves them from a P&L point of view but I have no doubt there will be plenty of internet conjecture to draw whatever conclusion suits in the coming months/years.

[#1-norm-fan]

Decades even. Scuttlebutt is the new truth. It’s here to stay. Like Nyla Rose’s penis.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yep, reports are already coming out that talent is upset that Will Asspray is going to get a All In match while they are not.

Maybe Tony Khan will fit everyone on the show and give them 0.00008 seconds of screen time each?

[DaveWadding]

Can't wait until some people on here find out that the episode title for the CM Punk's return is "The Second Coming"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Followed by The Second Leaving and The Third Coming.

[xrodmuc316]

Who else can't wait for CM Punk, the guy who took 3rd place out of 3 people in a MMA Senior's tournament, to return to wrestling and get injured again? Such good shit!!!!!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2JYo5JJVQW8?start=17" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ll take Punk back just to see the tears. Even if they come from him.

[GD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/AvYp8FyCMAAR1tB?format=jpg&name=small

[Sepholio]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/AvYp8FyCMAAR1tB?format=jpg&name=small

Val Venis sells weed in Arizona now.

[screech]

Does Val Venis still have Hunter Biden child porn on his laptop that he's going to share?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Val Venis is trash.

[Lock Jaw]

Val Venis is trash.

Don't ever break character again

[#1-norm-fan]

Now book him in a world title feud against Frank’s Trash Man character from Always Sunny.

[Evil Vito]

Wade Keller claiming the new WBD deal contains rebranded Max streaming and carries a value of 5 years, $1.2 billion ($240 million a year)

Dead company, pack it in

[xrodmuc316]

I hope the new layout is like HBO Max and not Discovery+

[xrodmuc316]

Hypothetically, if I lease a brand new car for $20,000, then I drive it for 4 years, put tons of miles on it, get into a few crashes, then when my lease is up, I can buy the car that has depreciated in value. Now imagine that I would offer to buy that car for $100,000.

That is what Warner Bros Discovery giving AEW a billion dollars would be like.

And then adding an ADDITIONAL $15,000 just for the hell of it :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

If true, for that deal to include 4 hours of prime time and secure streaming, WBD are getting it at an absolute steal. It’s like the Peacock deal, Raw and SmackDown rolled into one. WWE gets more for Raw currently than AEW will be getting out of this entire deal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE will probably set be getting more than what AEW will be getting out of the totality of their deal per year. AEW will get all the positive dirt sheet write-ups, but the gap between the two companies will probably never have been wider.

[The Rogerer]

Maybe its actually more money, it's all a matter of perspective.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Of course it’s more money. Is it enough money? Joking about AEW’s waste aside…probably enough to cover their expenses. Is it going to come with problems? Absolutely. Is it big in the context of what live entertainment should probably be worth? Nah.

[The Rogerer]

It's only wrestling after all

[#1-norm-fan]

Wade Keller claiming the new WBD deal contains rebranded Max streaming and carries a value of 5 years, $1.2 billion ($240 million a year)

Dead company, pack it in

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF

[XL]

Is anyone expecting AEW to be making WWE levels on their TV deals?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's only wrestling after all

Cool. Let’s not talk about it on a wrestling forum. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's only wrestling after all

Is anyone expecting AEW to be making WWE levels on their TV deals?

No, but $200 million per year is right in line with where you’d expect them to be. It’s not exactly them “pwning” the doubters.

[The Rogerer]

No, but $200 million per year is right in line with where you’d expect them to be.Thanks for trying to talk about such uninteresting news then

[#1-norm-fan]

I’d expect such a colossal failure of a venture to get $0.

[XL]

No, but $200 million per year is right in line with where you’d expect them to be. It’s not exactly them “pwning” the doubters.

I don’t really know what to do with this.

They got a deal that’s what you’d expect.

I guess the thing here is that some AEW fans that aren’t on this forum are selling it as this big triumph? Or now aren’t able to?

Genuinely don’t know as I’m not on twitter, etc.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t really know what to do with this.

They got a deal that’s what you’d expect.

I guess the thing here is that some AEW fans that aren’t on this forum are selling it as this big triumph? Or now aren’t able to?

Genuinely don’t know as I’m not on twitter, etc.

You have Vito in here doing a lite version of that. Rogerer gave it a shot too. The product still sucks and put into context, $240 million for 5 hours of television and your backlog of PPVs is pretty piss-poor.

[BigCrippyZ]

Thanks for your detailed expert financial valuation, fuckface.

[xrodmuc316]

The ever ethical Bryan Alvarez reported that the Billion dollars is not real, that it was put out there by WWE to make AEW look bad when they end up getting a 3 year $300 million deal.

Mental Gymnastics at it's finest :rofl::rofl::rofl:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/13gced6/bryan_alvarez_predicts_a_very_modest_deal_between/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[xrodmuc316]

"The haters" were reporting that AEW was getting cancelled because of the merger or something. At least those people post on twitter or reddit so they have the hope of a few people responding. I wouldn't like to imagine why you'd go and post all day about a thing you're not invested in to three other people, but it's not like I'm above doing very stupid things myself.

This is a large issue that is problematic to any expectation that the shows will improve. It should not be one way or the other. The word everybody throws around is tribalism, but it is closed mindedness. Just because somebody criticizes something AEW did does not mean they are just lying to make AEW look bad because they are WWE fans, and vice versa. It is this weird pseudo argument that allows anybody to overlook any criticism and go on with a deluded opinion with no desire to hope for a better product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The ever ethical Bryan Alvarez reported that the Billion dollars is not real, that it was put out there by WWE to make AEW look bad when they end up getting a 3 year $300 million deal.

Mental Gymnastics at it's finest :rofl::rofl::rofl:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/13gced6/bryan_alvarez_predicts_a_very_modest_deal_between/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

That’s pretty bleak. The funny thing is though — I’m pretty sure the Observer crew have floated stories to set a low bar for AEW. :lol:

[BigCrippyZ]

Ahh yes... don't worry, he's "pretty sure" guys... so scientific and factual...

[Helmsphere]

Val Venis is trash.

Who the eff are you. Did the real Noid die in 2016 and you simply replaced him after ditching the body?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ahh yes... don't worry, he's "pretty sure" guys... so scientific and factual...

That’s all you’ve been left with? You got a point you want to argue with? Go back into hiding, fake lawyer. Either that or request to suck my balls again. Remember when you used to be my little acolyte? :lol:

[The Rogerer]

This is a large issue that is problematic to any expectation that the shows will improve. It should not be one way or the other. The word everybody throws around is tribalism, but it is closed mindedness. Just because somebody criticizes something AEW did does not mean they are just lying to make AEW look bad because they are WWE fans, and vice versa. It is this weird pseudo argument that allows anybody to overlook any criticism and go on with a deluded opinion with no desire to hope for a better product.I don't need to be here for whatever conversation you're having in your head

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't need to be here for whatever conversation you're having in your head

There’s a difference between someone have a conversation in their head and someone not contributing to the conversation being had.

[The Rogerer]

There’s a difference between someone have a conversation in their head and someone not contributing to the conversation being had.It's a word salad projection about... people needing to criticise AEW so that the product gets better? In the middle of a discussion about how much they're getting on their TV deal, apparently an amount that is simultaneously unremarkable and hilarious.

[xrodmuc316]

I don't need to be here for whatever conversation you're having in your head

Just because you deleted your post after I replied to it doesn't mean I was conversing with myself :rofl:

[Evil Vito]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As announced at the Warner Bros. Discovery 2023 Upfront presentation today, TNT will launch a second night of professional wrestling with a new 2-hour series, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWCollision?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWCollision</a>, starting on Saturday, June 17th LIVE at 8pm ET/7pm CT on <a href="https://twitter.com/tntdrama?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tntdrama</a>!<br><br>To read the full press release:… <a href="https://t.co/roOipqNDD6">pic.twitter.com/roOipqNDD6</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1658844955761057792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As announced at the Warner Bros. Discovery 2023 Upfront presentation today, TNT will launch a second night of professional wrestling with a new 2-hour series, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWCollision?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWCollision</a>, starting on Saturday, June 17th LIVE at 8pm ET/7pm CT on <a href="https://twitter.com/tntdrama?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tntdrama</a>!<br><br>To read the full press release:… <a href="https://t.co/roOipqNDD6">pic.twitter.com/roOipqNDD6</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1658844955761057792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Andrade coming back in interesting. Didn't he punch Sammy just to get fired?

[Evil Vito]

So the press release confirms Andrade El Idolo, Miro, Thunder Rosa, Samoa Joe, and Powerhouse Hobbs will be featured acts on Collision.

Those first three all had varying degrees of issues with management, talent, or both. Add in the obvious inclusion of CM Punk and the unofficial roster split lines are being drawn.

[Evil Vito]

I'm jazzed at Andrade coming back. He might've been a prick backstage but he's a great talent and I think he was getting lost in the shuffle of the roster bloat.

I hope this points to LFI getting more shine. Rush will be jobbing to Jungle Boy on Dynamite this week but hopefully they can find a nice home on Collision.

[The Rogerer]

Just because you deleted your post after I replied to it doesn't mean I was conversing with myself :rofl:I did delete my post but just for anyone else reading, I wasn't refering to that, I was referring to your drivel

[Fignuts]

Was hoping Collision would be a more serious, more traditional product but theres orange cassidy front and center.

[Vastardikai]

So the press release confirms Andrade El Idolo, Miro, Thunder Rosa, Samoa Joe, and Powerhouse Hobbs will be featured acts on Collision.

Those first three all had varying degrees of issues with management, talent, or both. Add in the obvious inclusion of CM Punk and the unofficial roster split lines are being drawn.

It is just odd and wildly expensive to do all this instead of, I dunno, figure out who the common denominator of all the problems and just get rid of them.

Like Sammy has issues with half the roster, and has burned bridges with two companies AEW was doing business with, but gets a pass because he invited Snowman to his wedding.

[Vastardikai]

Was hoping Collision would be a more serious, more traditional product but theres orange cassidy front and center.

There is always the hope that he shows up episode one, puts his hands in his Pockets, and gets mauled. I think that is the only appeal he has left.

[The Rogerer]

I was under the impression that Orange Cassidy was very popular. This thread is very confusing

[Evil Vito]

We're three years in to Orange Cassidy consistently getting one of the loudest reactions at TV every week, demonstrably being a ratings draw, being one of the top merch movers in the company, photos of kids dressing as him for Halloween, and countless anecdotes of him appealing to first-time viewers.

We're long past "it's too much of an inside joke" or "new fans won't get it" being worthwhile talking points.

Totally understand why some rasslin' fans don't like him. And that's perfectly fine. But anyone who acts like he's not one of the most popular acts they have really isn't arguing in good faith.

[slik]

I like Orange Cassidy

Interested to see who else gets 'drafted' to Collision

[xrodmuc316]

I have no counter points to make on anything you said, so I will just say you are just hating on AEW, a WWE Mark, and you only post drivel!

Great point Rogeries!

[GD]

https://media.tenor.com/0y_0hSRZOJ8AAAAd/orange-cassidy-thumbs-up.gif

[xrodmuc316]

PWInsiders reporting the following:

Hard Brand Splits were NEVER the plan.
The new media rights deal was NEVER planned to be announced at the upfronts.

Wrestling journalist make random guesses, if they are right than they act like they have sources, if they are wrong it is either plans changed, or it was never planned.

I mean :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[GD]

<marquee behavior="slide" direction="left">https://i.imgur.com/YE180YN.gif</marquee>

<marquee behavior="slide" direction="right" scroll amount="5">https://i.imgur.com/YE180YN.gif</marquee>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol at people arguing that a guy on a show that gets 900k viewers on a good week is a “draw.” This is why their shit is capped. This is why people farted in AEW’s general direction from the start. It’s why we cannot have nice things.

Attention is not approval, folks. Orange Cassidy getting the AEW fans +20k people laughing at what a joke wrestling is doesn’t equate to him being a draw.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Also, lol at Collision and the general mess this promises to be.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Was hoping Collision would be a more serious, more traditional product but theres orange cassidy front and center.

I’ve had this hope, but that would necessitate that Tony Khan be able to assess what works and what doesn’t in wrestling, then adjust his creative to reflect that. If he knew what to do, then Dynamite would probably be better. Rampage wouldn’t completely suck.

It’s going to be more of the same. More talent may get featured, which isn’t actually a good thing. What you need is better talent to be emphasized more. They’re different things, but people are acting as if Miro having a mid-card spot on Collision isn’t going to feel arguably more hollow than them not using him at all.

It’s just more. More for people to watch, more for people to absorb, more for people to process, more for people to try and forge an attachment to.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sinking fucking ship trying to sell people on it being submersible.

[The Rogerer]

I can get it if people don't like Orange, but he's clearly a popular part of the show and a great worker (my opinion). If you think he's ruining people's image of pro wrestling, I don't know what to tell you. If people don't like him, what sort of wrestlers, current or past, would you like to see instead? I think wrestling has always been a)goofy and b)a variety show. There's plenty of styles of wrestling that I don't like but I accept them as part of the package.

If you want my personal opinion, someone like OC is the best hope to get people invested in wrestling. People still think of it as pathetic gay shit for idiots. I don't know if you've noticed anything about popular culture, but ironic self-parody is pretty hot these days.

[Sepholio]

I think the issue is that OC is popular because of the antics and not the wrestling. Taking a chance at getting cursed here, but it's the same with Danhausen. I'm not surprised that they are over in the age of TikTok and Instagram.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can get it if people don't like Orange, but he's clearly a popular part of the show and a great worker (my opinion). If you think he's ruining people's image of pro wrestling, I don't know what to tell you. If people don't like him, what sort of wrestlers, current or past, would you like to see instead? I think wrestling has always been a)goofy and b)a variety show. There's plenty of styles of wrestling that I don't like but I accept them as part of the package.

If you want my personal opinion, someone like OC is the best hope to get people invested in wrestling. People still think of it as pathetic gay shit for idiots. I don't know if you've noticed anything about popular culture, but ironic self-parody is pretty hot these days.

* The show isn’t popular. Being a car crash on top of that doesn’t make you a successful draw.

* Cassidy is shit in the ring. So much daylight between his stuff and he indicates spots from a mile away.

* Wrestling hasn’t always been that. In fact, the more it leans into that the less successful it becomes.

* Some people aren’t going to be accomodating to shit they don’t want to watch. This might explain consistently decreasing interest.

* Orange Cassidy is NOT the best chance to get people back into wrestling.

* People might think that, but it’s BECAUSE of shit like this, not despite it.

* People don’t want ironic self-parody from their wrestling. It’s insincere, insecure and defeats the purpose of it existing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A bunch of masochists still watch wrestling even though it is bad. Inside jokes aimed at fucking losers we are might pop us, but they are not going to make wrestling effective for anyone else.

The response to “You know it’s fake, right?” isn’t “Yeah, I know. Check out this Orange Cassidy guy who doesn’t even try to make it look good.” That’s MORE of a waste of time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s also funny that interest in older wrestling — podcasts, YouTube channels, etc. are growing all the time. I’d rather listen to a 6hr podcast about wrestling than watch 2hrs of the current stuff. If you want to talk about ironic parody, podcasts going back over stuff that actually worked is way more in lieu with what culture is preoccupied with at the moment.

[Frank Drebin]

Was hoping Collision would be a more serious, more traditional product but theres orange cassidy front and center.

Yeah. I was hoping it would be the Bucks, their friends and "goofy" shit on Dynamite and something Jim Cornette would like on Collision.

[The Rogerer]

It’s also funny that interest in older wrestling — podcasts, YouTube channels, etc. are growing all the time. I’d rather listen to a 6hr podcast about wrestling than watch 2hrs of the current stuff. If you want to talk about ironic parody, podcasts going back over stuff that actually worked is way more in lieu with what culture is preoccupied with at the moment.
I can't disagree with what you think about Cassidy, but I did ask if there's examples of who would be your platonic ideal of a modern wrestler? If you don't like Orange I still think AEW has lots of other wrestlers who aren't like him at all, he doesn't define the show, he's just one ring of of the circus. You don't think the show is popular, okay. It seems to me like Cassidy is popular with the audience that does watch, and I don't think he repulses people away from the other matches. Again, out of curiosity, what examples of wrestlers should be the model if you don't want to see Orange.

Podcasts are big, but they're either going to be current affairs and news like, or they're inherently going to be detailed stuff about the past just because how the nature of Time works. What sort of stuff are you interested in?

I'm just unaware of this era of realistic wrestling. I've never seen anything that's not immediately staged.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It would be so easy to do, but then you’ve got to deal with the backstage politics when things don’t go the way one party wants.

Could you imagine if the wrestling show on Saturdays did better than the sports entertainment on Wednesdays? Drama central.

[Frank Drebin]

We will see but as long as they put the guys who are criminally underused on collision and give them more of a push or direction I'm for it. House of Black, Miro, Andrade/Rush, Hobbs, Wardlow, Pac, Joe, FTR, Butcher and Blade, Ethan Page, Private Party.....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't disagree with what you think about Cassidy, but I did ask if there's examples of who would be your platonic ideal of a modern wrestler? If you don't like Orange I still think AEW has lots of other wrestlers who aren't like him at all, he doesn't define the show, he's just one ring of of the circus. You don't think the show is popular, okay. It seems to me like Cassidy is popular with the audience that does watch, and I don't think he repulses people away from the other matches. Again, out of curiosity, what examples of wrestlers should be the model if you don't want to see Orange.

Podcasts are big, but they're either going to be current affairs and news like, or they're inherently going to be detailed stuff about the past just because how the nature of Time works. What sort of stuff are you interested in?

What sort of modern wrestlers now? I mean, I can’t say enough good stuff about Gunther, Rey Mysterio, Dominik and Brock. AJ Styles is always great. Lashley has improved so much. I enjoyed the shit out of Stand & Deliver, especially Bron Breakker and the Fatal 4-Way between Dragunov, McDonagh and the Lees. Chad Gable is great. I don’t know why you’re really asking. Orange Cassidy is truly bottom of the barrel for me.

I’m saying he is going to cap the show to a certain extent. He doesn’t run off the 800k or so people who watch every week. That’s such a little number for wrestling though. Some people just aren’t going to put themselves through that.

[The Rogerer]

Fair answers, if I was looking to pick a fight I would point out that Rey Mysterio did an angle a couple of years ago where his eyeball was pulled out. It was insane and they didn't follow through with it, and it's water under the bridge now that he's doing a big soap opera angle, but it's worth talking about in an argument about kayfabe. It's fine if you like that style of wrestler, I think AEW also has wrestlers that fall into that category but I really don't think it's worth a row either, if you don't like them, you don't like them.

What I would say is that I don't think 800k is a notably small number. What's the ceiling, Smackdown at 2 million - with a much larger potential audience I believe? Smackdown is available to watch in far more many homes because it's on free TV, is that right? I don't know the proportions there or much about how US TV works beyond cable and 'over the air'? That's a show with the sorts of wrestlers you like, with a larger potential audience than Dynamite, and all the brand power and legacy of WWE, and the audience is 2 million

In light of that I still think it's remarkable that AEW is within reach of what WWE does on TV - I would expect them to be lower, and so did TNT. You can spend the next 4 years continuing to gripe about it but they're still ahead of business expectations so, there's just not much very interesting about any of this!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn’t like Rey’s eyeball stuff either. My point is about him as a worker. His shit is crisp as fuck — arguably getting better with age (he no longer seems to luck into the 619 every match). Anyone in AEW at that level disappears into the sea of sloppy unprofessionalism.

I don’t think SmackDown is the ceiling. I think they run people off too. But 800k compared to 2.4 million is pretty shocking. If WCW was doing 25% of what WWF was, they would be mocked mercilessly. David Flair bumping the rating 1% wouldn’t be applauded so readily.

I would have expected a promotion with $100 million, so much goodwill, a fresh start and national cable to be doing better. I don’t know where this low bar is coming from.

[The Rogerer]

Why would I compare WWF vs WCW to WWE vs AEW? That was 25 years ago, 30 years ago. The target audience wasn't even born.

Name your numbers then, what should Raw and Smackdown be doing? What should AEW be doing?

I don’t know where this low bar is coming from.from you?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

One issue with OC is he's doing a fad gimmick. Reminds me of a modern-day DX but without the same platform. He may seem cool to a certain segment of the audience now, but he won't age well. Seriously, DX was fun at the time, but super shit when you go back and watch. The guys can all work in their way so they get away with the lameness, but fuck me it's bad.

I suppose wrestling is a business of "now," but I feel like timeless gimmicks are what will set you apart as trends inevitably shift.

[#1-norm-fan]

Which version of DX are you talking about? I don’t think original DX was all that dated. Just a couple sophomoric douchebag heels. Post-HBK definitely doesn’t age as well in some aspects. The “I love cocks”/old man HBK awkward comedy reboots… yikes.

[xrodmuc316]

I dont mind Orange Cassidy at all. Sure I wish his character would evolve some, but that is an issue with pretty much the entire roster. At least he is different than the most everybody else who's only gimmick is "I wrestle good".

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Which version of DX are you talking about? I don’t think original DX was all that dated. Just a couple sophomoric douchebag heels. Post-HBK definitely doesn’t age as well in some aspects. The “I love cocks”/old man HBK awkward comedy reboots… yikes.

original dx is so lame and dated.

[DaveWadding]

I meme'd today

https://i.ibb.co/XF2k3zw/Grid-Art-20230517-204745413.jpg (https://ibb.co/NWVnmL4)
upload images for free (https://imgbb.com/)

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="qme" dir="ltr">�� <a href="https://t.co/wOxvVfYU9X">pic.twitter.com/wOxvVfYU9X</a></p>&mdash; Down with the KXNG♠️ (@KxngSpade) <a href="https://twitter.com/KxngSpade/status/1658837080410140673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Fignuts]

We're three years in to Orange Cassidy consistently getting one of the loudest reactions at TV every week, demonstrably being a ratings draw, being one of the top merch movers in the company, photos of kids dressing as him for Halloween, and countless anecdotes of him appealing to first-time viewers.

We're long past "it's too much of an inside joke" or "new fans won't get it" being worthwhile talking points.

Totally understand why some rasslin' fans don't like him. And that's perfectly fine. But anyone who acts like he's not one of the most popular acts they have really isn't arguing in good faith.

He's all those things to the same group of people who have watched aew from the start, and probably always will as long as it's around. He's not some big star thats bringing new eyes to the product.

[Mr. JL]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="qme" dir="ltr">�� <a href="https://t.co/wOxvVfYU9X">pic.twitter.com/wOxvVfYU9X</a></p>&mdash; Down with the KXNG♠️ (@KxngSpade) <a href="https://twitter.com/KxngSpade/status/1658837080410140673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's the best thing I've seen in a long while.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why would I compare WWF vs WCW to WWE vs AEW? That was 25 years ago, 30 years ago. The target audience wasn't even born.

Name your numbers then, what should Raw and Smackdown be doing? What should AEW be doing?

from you?

The target audience definitely was born. You don’t even need to go backwards in time to see that AEW is not performing as well as it could/should be.

No, it comes from apologists and is based on nothing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, Mike Johnson is reporting that the AEW/CM Punk relationship is frosty again. This time it’s because Ace Steel was supposed to come back and now he’s not. As I’ve said, I’ll actually believe Punk is coming back when I actually see him. I don’t think many of these dirt sheets actually talk to guys Punk knows. I suspect a lot of the rumors have been things AEW wanted and weren’t necessarily going to get Punk to agree to.

[The Rogerer]

The target audience definitely was born. You don’t even need to go backwards in time to see that AEW is not performing as well as it could/should be.

No, it comes from apologists and is based on nothing.The situation simply isn't comparable. You'd have to be at least 27 years old to even begin having a living memory of WCW. The WWE now is not the WWF of then either - WWF and WCW basically came up together. WWE now is a company that benefits from decades of victory and expansion.

Where do you think the numbers for WWE and AEW should be? TV ratings are universally down, both WWE and AEW have hit number 1 on cable (despite Raws figures steadily falling through the 2010s), it would be insane if AEW was able to pull comparable ratings to WWE with it's massive entrenched lead. Give a number!

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE is also stale and we live in a globalized world. AEW has way more advantages than any other start-up wrestling promotion…ever. Certain things are antiquated (like when AEW fans compare AEW’s buyrates to ECW’s), but other things are still applicable. That whole discussion is a major smokescreen away from what I’m actually saying, since I don’t think I’ve ever said that AEW or WWE should be doing the exact same numbers that were done in the Attitude era. I just don’t think they’re doing optimal numbers. Very different arguments.

I’ve said before that I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that the primary show of a major wrestling promotion in a prime time basic cable should be able to beat Monday Night Raw — whatever number that is. Raw is on a more competitive night, has been on the air forever, is not WWE’s priority show anymore, and is 3 hrs long (which obviously handicaps the rating). They haven’t really come close to that number (outside their debut, which didn’t hook as many live viewers as possible).

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to beat SmackDown on FOX, given the network advantage, but that is on Friday night. It wouldn’t be absolutely shocking for a TV show to get more than 2.4 million viewers even on cable. I think there are millions of people who would dip in and out of wrestling if it were better.

I just don’t like the argument that the numbers are what they are and wrestling is doing the best that it can. I think it does stuff that markedly limits its audience. It’s not just AEW. WWE has done it for years and still does it now. WCW did it. But I don’t think shrugging and saying that you can’t expect them to be as successful as they once were is satisfying coverage of that. Sounds like a cop-out.

[The Rogerer]

The discussion isn't doing anything except asking, what do you think those numbers could get up to?

The follow up question is: for what purpose? There's a universe of competing entertainment that didn't exist in the 90s. If WWE and AEW are making enough money, what does more money do for them? Why does the show need to be bigger? Why do people have to put down whatever they're doing and start watching wrestling?

Should we be watching wrestling instead of Minecraft youtube videos? Those minecraft videos could be doing much better numbers! It's very disappointing that they're not attracting a more mature, affluent audience. Fucking embarrassing man.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The argument is about how effective the programming is. That Dynamite doesn’t generate interest suggests that it is missing fans that would care if it were good.

[The Rogerer]

It has exceeded expectations and has just doubled its live programming hours.

Everything's missing fans, it's what everything in the world is trying to do at the same time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No it hasn’t. They might have better days, better time slots, a streaming deal or more control over the amount of content they generate (rn they’re totally at the mercy of WBD) if they had a better success rate.

And there’s that smokescreen argument I don’t like. Not everything shrivels and dies on the vine. Let’s stop excusing it.

[XL]

Yeah the fact they’ve added more content can’t be chalked up as a win, at least not yet. Let’s see what they turn out. Part of the problem with the current setup is Rampage is very clearly a B show that nobody watches and Dynamite is trying to feature too many moving parts. A roster split of any kind might help with this but it’s not a panacea to fix all ills.

[The Rogerer]

No it hasn’t. They might have better days, better time slots, a streaming deal or more control over the amount of content they generate (rn they’re totally at the mercy of WBD) if they had a better success rate.

And there’s that smokescreen argument I don’t like. Not everything shrivels and dies on the vine. Let’s stop excusing it.I don't know what the argument even is. They literally, materially exceeded the original expectations for how Dynamite would before. Yes, they are at the mercy of their biggest customer, what alternative would you suggest? That you like a load of WWE wrestlers? Good, they're making more money than ever! Cheer up, dickhead.

You don't like modern wrestling but it's making more money now, I'm sorry to tell you this. It's a media product, blame Vince for starting Raw and making wrestling the never ending live show. You won't name numbers, you have no advice to offer these companies, WWE is making insane amounts of money. I pause before saying that AEW is making money because I don't know and I'm sure I'll get told how it's a joke and losing hand over fist.

I thought that's what we were all supposed to care about, the money and the miles, right? That's what all the legit, old school legends said, right? Suddenly the money's not good enough?

[The Rogerer]

There is plenty to be said about how shows and companies could be doing things better, I just don't think it's going to affect the bottom line as much as you think, nor is it as easy as you think. It's a miracle these shows exist at all.

[xrodmuc316]

For the record, until Financials come out, nobody can say what more programming hours mean. If they are still operating in the red, then another live show is just going back to compound that.

AEW has also not been able to maintain viewership for 3 hours a week, but now we just assume they can for 5? It is a big ask.

[The Rogerer]

Are they in the red? We just keep saying lots of things here. Not popular, not able to maintain viewership, by what standards? Everyone is reportedly very happy at a time when media companies are tightening their belts and harshly cancelling things. Again, what should these numbers be, what's the magic viewing figure that suddenly turns all this web of lies about success into a truth?

[xrodmuc316]

Are they in the red? We just keep saying lots of things here. Not popular, not able to maintain viewership, by what standards? Everyone is reportedly very happy at a time when media companies are tightening their belts and harshly cancelling things. Again, what should these numbers be, what's the magic viewing figure that suddenly turns all this web of lies about success into a truth?

We do not know without the financials, which is the point. We cannot know if it is a good thing for the company or a bad thing for the company based on the information that has been released. We do not know if there is anything in place to handle the extra workload, or if Tony is just planning on doing more cocaine!

Ideally, the show is separate to minimize backstage drama, run by somebody else to minimize being stretched too thin, and profitable. My only point is we do not know any of that. Thunder had a disastrous effect on WCW for all of the same reasons.

[Sting Fan]

I keep beating this drum but I really want Darby to win the World title. I understand they were going for the whole long reigns builds legitimacy thing pre the Punk debacle but if your going to have your young pillars feud over it lets do some crash TV.

It doesnt need to be handed around like crazy but lets see a surprise win and someone making gutsy defences as a fighting champ for a month or two. Make a few big defences along with the smaller ones before dropping it to someone not surprising, in a surprising location/fashion (a live Rampage?)

I think Darby or Penta (with a little build now hes been off TV a bit) could be perfect. The crowd love them, they can go in ring, they could defend up or down the card believably on TV and just bring something a little different to the table when you have Reigns doing the long reign thing over in WWE land as well.

[The Rogerer]

We do not know without the financials, which is the point. We cannot know if it is a good thing for the company or a bad thing for the company based on the information that has been released. We do not know if there is anything in place to handle the extra workload, or if Tony is just planning on doing more cocaine!

Ideally, the show is separate to minimize backstage drama, run by somebody else to minimize being stretched too thin, and profitable. My only point is we do not know any of that. Thunder had a disastrous effect on WCW for all of the same reasons.You're talking about something different now, and once again we find ourselves back in the 20th century for some reason.

I guess we all have to shuffle our feet and pretend it's possibly a Machiavellian plan by WBD.

[xrodmuc316]

You're talking about something different now, and once again we find ourselves back in the 20th century for some reason.

I guess we all have to shuffle our feet and pretend it's possibly a Machiavellian plan by WBD.

I am not talking about something different. A new TV show has been announced, that is all. Anything else is pure speculation. I didn't say it was a plan, or doomed, or anything else other than we cannot say for now, because there are no details yet.

You seem to be ignoring where I am saying it could possibly be a great deal, bring lots of money, produce quality tv, etc. You are only focusing on the part where I am saying it could possibly be a bad deal, cost them lots of money, produce bad tv, etc.

[The Rogerer]

I am not talking about something different. You moved from talking about the history of AEW being doomed, to a different thing, now the second show is the iceberg that's going to sink the company. So they're already apparently failing and in debt, but now this new show could make them fail and be in debt. You could operate from a position that they're doing okay but the new show could tip them over, but no, apparently the company's terrible and WBD gave them a second live show to produce because??? I guess anything is possible, that is but merely what you are deigning to but say.

[The Rogerer]

Tony Khan doing some REALLY dumb stuff today, but we can't talk about that here because we have to talk about the fantasy world in which the show's getting cancelled and arenas are filled with AI generated fans.

[Sepholio]

Hey guys apparently The Rogerer doesn't know he's allowed to change the subject lolol what a schmuck.

[The Rogerer]

Interesting stuff happening but it would be a waste of time to talk about it since the show'll be off the air soon anyway, on to bigger and better things for me!

[xrodmuc316]

You moved from talking about the history of AEW being doomed, to a different thing, now the second show is the iceberg that's going to sink the company. So they're already apparently failing and in debt, but now this new show could make them fail and be in debt. You could operate from a position that they're doing okay but the new show could tip them over, but no, apparently the company's terrible and WBD gave them a second live show to produce because??? I guess anything is possible, that is but merely what you are deigning to but say.

Sigh...

A new TV show has been announced, that is all. Anything else is pure speculation. I didn't say it was a plan, or doomed, or anything else other than we cannot say for now, because there are no details yet.

You seem to be ignoring where I am saying it could possibly be a great deal, bring lots of money, produce quality tv, etc. You are only focusing on the part where I am saying it could possibly be a bad deal, cost them lots of money, produce bad tv, etc.

[screech]

I'm in the minority I'm sure but I had no interest in Starks vs Jay White the other night. So there's at least one PPV match I can zone out during.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know what the argument even is. They literally, materially exceeded the original expectations for how Dynamite would before. Yes, they are at the mercy of their biggest customer, what alternative would you suggest? That you like a load of WWE wrestlers? Good, they're making more money than ever! Cheer up, dickhead.

You don't like modern wrestling but it's making more money now, I'm sorry to tell you this. It's a media product, blame Vince for starting Raw and making wrestling the never ending live show. You won't name numbers, you have no advice to offer these companies, WWE is making insane amounts of money. I pause before saying that AEW is making money because I don't know and I'm sure I'll get told how it's a joke and losing hand over fist.

I thought that's what we were all supposed to care about, the money and the miles, right? That's what all the legit, old school legends said, right? Suddenly the money's not good enough?

No they haven’t. I expected Dynamite to do better. You’re taking a low bar, letting them jump over it and calling it exceeding expectations. It doesn’t make it true. I used to like plenty of AEW wrestlers too, but I don’t watch them in AEW because it fucking sucks. That’s the point.

WWE making more money than ever is great for their bottom line, but it doesn’t make the content better. I have given numbers, I have given advice, don’t know what your rambling ass is going on about with the legends stuff. I just want good wrestling that works, man. Give me something good and I’ll say it’s good. I’m not going to lick the boot of whatever presents itself though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Collision is just going to add to the glut. Talent is going to be more exposed and less focused on. It’s more ask of viewers. It’s going to hurt.

[xrodmuc316]

Dynamite drew 1.4 million viewers for its debut episode. Their viewership peaked on day 1.

More people watched the debut of Jake Hager than any of the 50+ debuts that came after.

Seriously, Jake Hager is historically their biggest draw.

[Lock Jaw]

That last sentence was one too many. I don't think you can claim that people were watching because of Jake Hager, he wasn't even announced to be there.

[Jordan]

Why are you guys endlessly arguing the same thing over and over?

[Lock Jaw]

Why are you guys endlessly arguing the same thing over and over?

Oh, I'm sorry. Is this your first time on the internet?

[Sting Fan]

The Collision artwork, posters whatever you want to call it gives me Nitro call back vibes. I don't hate it.

[Fignuts]

Fight Forever apparently slated for june 27. Offial statement expected soon, if not within the week.

[Sting Fan]

Fight Forever apparently slated for june 27. Offial statement expected soon, if not within the week.

I tried playing some old WWE 2k games the other day and just couldn't get into it. Maybe I'm too old for this stuff now :-\

[The Rogerer]

No they haven’t. I expected Dynamite to do better. You’re taking a low bar, letting them jump over it and calling it exceeding expectations. It doesn’t make it true. I used to like plenty of AEW wrestlers too, but I don’t watch them in AEW because it fucking sucks. That’s the point.

WWE making more money than ever is great for their bottom line, but it doesn’t make the content better. I have given numbers, I have given advice, don’t know what your rambling ass is going on about with the legends stuff. I just want good wrestling that works, man. Give me something good and I’ll say it’s good. I’m not going to lick the boot of whatever presents itself though.
1. It's a TV show that was commissioned to hit a certain level of ratings. They have consistently exceeded those ratings. I'm sorry if that simple matter upsets you. They got more money and now an extra show. I still haven't seen the ratings that you think Dynamite should be hitting.

2. You've changed the discussion entirely here. You always talked about popularity and success. Now you're saying you just want it to be good. Would you be happy with a show that you liked more but with lower ratings? Or do you just assume that if they do what you like, the show would be more popular?

It's worth discussing personal preference in wrestling. It's just a shame you talked entirely about performance metrics and then pretended you were talking about quality all along.

[Sepholio]

What level of ratings were they commissioned to hit, exactly? Because it sounds like you're making stuff up here.

[The Rogerer]

Talk from 2019 was that TNT were happy with 400k as a starting point and considered 500k a success. I made this number up, it was actually expected that they'd hit 3 million and now they have to do a second live show as an apology.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't NOT believe you, Rog. But do you have a source? Because if you can back those numbers up, that's basically "it" for the argument.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I mean it's not out of the realm of reason to view AEW as a success even if the product is a bit crap a lot of the time. Everyone sings to the skies about how WWE is a juggernaut and they've produced some of the worst television you'll ever see in your lifetime week after week. Wrestling is kind of just bad now (and has been for decades).

[The Rogerer]

Why would I make them up? The source of the numbers came from Meltzer so of course they should be immolated, you can do your own searches too, but even back in 2019 you'll find that people fixated on these numbers and were convinced AEW would do 400k and NXT would do 800k - probably the same people who do the "no million" crowd.

It's funny that it's been said I'm making things up, when I'm just going by the best information available. Those were the expectations for the show, the show did better. Even if those ratings are made up, the network seems really happy. To me the problem only exists if one has to start contorting reality into "I hate the show and the ratings are lower than I think they should be therefore it's doing really badly". If people hate AEW then that's up to them, I just have a queue of people here saying "Also it's a failure" when it just isn't. If you hate AEW then that's a bad thing for you, they're doing something you hate and it's working.

TV ratings are low. Wrestling has always been a niche thing, and the ways that it was able to explode in Hulkamania and the Attitude eras just don't exist now. Entertainment is radically different. Do not take it for granted that there's still multiple promotions putting live wrestling on TV. It could have gone away forever. Maybe this is as good as it gets.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I would imagine this is basically as good as it gets. TV ratings for everything are paltry now. You hear people across all genres complaint about it. We consume entertainment so much differently now, making the metrics of old basically pointless.

[xrodmuc316]

Nobody ever said TNT was only expecting 400,000 viewers. Even if that were true, once the first episode got 1.4 million viewers, it is reasonable for the network to wonder where 600,000 viewers went.

If TNT expected 400,000 and Dynamite is getting 800,000, then why did TNT stop putting out press releases touting the viewership after it declined? Why did they move it off TNT at all? If a show is getting double what the network expected, they should be over the moon, not sending it to the B Network.

How about the Saturday show? Since Saturdays have less people watching TV, will TNT be expecting even less than their initial 400,000 viewers? Are we honestly supposed to believe Warner Bros Discovery is eager to pay $80 million a year for 2 hours of Saturday Night TV, as long as AEW can get at least 400,000 viewers?

WBD will want to pay less, and they will want more viewers. That is basic business, get the most bang for their buck. If the current deal is paying $15 million per hour of TV, justify why they would bump that up all the way to $40 million per hour for shows that have lost roughly 40% for Dynamite and 50% for Rampage? They don't own the content, they aren't going to make up the difference on a back end syndication deal.

This is a company so desperate to cut spending they cancelled the release of a Batgirl movie just for a tax writeoff! Yet they are going to give a bunch of money to a guy who is going to fund his wrestling company with his daddy's money no matter what? WBD does not care if AEW makes itself a profit, they care if they can make a profit off AEW.

My source if you are wondering is THAT IS HOW BUSINESS WORKS! WBD answers to it's shareholders, not AEW diehards that think AEW is the greatest thing ever and should get paid because they, because LET'S FUCKING GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp.

[The Rogerer]

Nobody ever said TNT was only expecting 400,000 viewers. He said that you son of a bitch

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I would like a quote or a link to verify such statements.

[The Rogerer]

but what about wcw losing the network money, i kept hittng myself in the head aeiwith a hammer an = now itsa 1997 agian

[The Rogerer]

I would like a quote or a link to verify such statements.No, it's mine and you'll never see it