"100,001" Replies (Wrestling Forum)

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wishbone basically did all the schooling that needs to be done here. I can't believe you label people are parroting dirt sheet writers and then don't listen to the guys that actually have experience in the business.

Just to correct you though, Wishbone -- a few people did see money in The Rock when they first saw him. Jim Cornette definitely did, and I believe Jim Ross did too. Cornette, in particular, told Vince McMahon to present The Rock well, because he'll be your World Champion in five years. Then The Rock did it in like two. He actually had a very meteoric rise where he was presented well, so I don't know what CyNick is saying about this journeyman story for him, not that this was anyone's point to retort in the first place.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can intellectually appreciate the desire to have one World Champion. I really can. Emotionally, I just don't feel it working though. It's the same reason a Cruiserweight Title is actually a bad idea. You'll either end up with cruiserweights that are too good for the Cruiserweight Title, rendering it meaningless; or a bunch of guys fighting for the "little man's" championship and never getting out.

I don't think you can call for the creative teams to be autonomous AND have some sort of shared stake to the championship. Maybe in a perfect world, but I just can't see the collaboration needed to put together what would essentially be joint PPVs happening with one World Championship. That's just my feeling on the matter -- I'd eat my words if they pulled it off.

[Damian Rey]

It can be executed properly. If the both the IC and US titles are presented the way the US title was when Cena held it, they become big deals.

If Owens win the IC strap and a returning Orton suddenly sets his sight on winning it from KO, that belt is instantly elevated because Orton matters.

Now imagine that program headlining one show exclusively, presented as a big deal main event and the primary storyline of the show. If you tell the fans its a big deal and book it as such, the fans will buy into it, much like they bought into Cena's US title run.

The world champ can have on going feuds with one guy over a number of weeks to culminate at a big show. It does not have to be defended 12 times a year. Nor does the champ have to wrestle everyv week.

I found it incredibly refreshing during Lesnar's run that he only had 4 total defenses after 8 months with the top title. The belt being on the line became more important and much more of a spectacle and attraction instead of a prop and seeming obligation.

The question is whether there's the creative wherewithal to execute it properly.

[loopydate]

Actually Cena is a great example of why the brand extension was a joke and a failure. Once it was clear he was getting really popular, he was moved over to RAW (the A brand), and they moved Batista over to SD (the B brand). Cena then worked with Triple H and went over.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a nice little story.

I could say the same thing.

Cena only got over because he was given a chance to develop on a show with half a roster. If he had come in as the Prototype and had to compete with Evolution, Steiner, Booker, and the rest of the guys on the Raw roster in addition to the guys he was already up against on SmackDown for air time, he'd have been released within a year.

[Wishbone]

Wishbone basically did all the schooling that needs to be done here. I can't believe you label people are parroting dirt sheet writers and then don't listen to the guys that actually have experience in the business.

Just to correct you though, Wishbone -- a few people did see money in The Rock when they first saw him. Jim Cornette definitely did, and I believe Jim Ross did too. Cornette, in particular, told Vince McMahon to present The Rock well, because he'll be your World Champion in five years. Then The Rock did it in like two. He actually had a very meteoric rise where he was presented well, so I don't know what CyNick is saying about this journeyman story for him, not that this was anyone's point to retort in the first place.

Ah, thanks for the correction, dude. :y: Still I think it's safe to say that almost no fans thought he'd be a big deal upon his premier, and given said premier I'd say Vince probably didn't think there was much stock in him either at first, which is all the more reason I think brushing off guys like CyNick is just stupid. We really don't know what could be until it's been tried. Although I probably don't need to tell you that.

[Wishbone]

I can intellectually appreciate the desire to have one World Champion. I really can. Emotionally, I just don't feel it working though. It's the same reason a Cruiserweight Title is actually a bad idea. You'll either end up with cruiserweights that are too good for the Cruiserweight Title, rendering it meaningless; or a bunch of guys fighting for the "little man's" championship and never getting out.

I don't think you can call for the creative teams to be autonomous AND have some sort of shared stake to the championship. Maybe in a perfect world, but I just can't see the collaboration needed to put together what would essentially be joint PPVs happening with one World Championship. That's just my feeling on the matter -- I'd eat my words if they pulled it off.

Honestly I think it could be done quite well. Just not with the current writers and people in charge since they seem to have trouble dealing with one show.

Personally I'd say have two different teams working on each show and then a third much smaller team working on the world title scene. I mean there'd be issues to sort out for sure, but if comic books and the DC shows can do shared universe crap with different stories and writers I don't see why a couple of wrestling shows couldn't.

[Emperor Smeat]

Dirtsheets sponsored by New BAD Day:
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The big news of the day is Dixie Carter telling Sports Illustrated that TNA is, as of right now, done with Destination America after the end of the year. The article actually has another passage that says they're done as of February, and we're waiting to hear back as to what it's actually supposed to say. Regardless, it looks like Destination America is doing exactly what Spike did last year, which is give TNA some extra time to find a new network.
Extension can be cut short if TNA manages to find a new deal and transition to the new network prior to February. Same happened with Spike once TNA got settled in early than planned with DA.

Damien Sandow was wearing his old blue robe when he came out for tonight's dark match win over Adam Rose in Little Rock, Arkansas. He worked as a babyface and was also back to wearing his old gear, as seen below. Sandow also cut a promo and said he is back, as The Voice of Common Sense, not a stunt double.

WWE officials have reportedly reached out to all talents, including those no longer wrestling but still affiliated with the company, and told them not to have any contact with Hulk Hogan due to the racist comments scandal. This comes after Hogan recently went on a media tour in hope of getting back with the company. Hogan has an upcoming one-night appearance in the UK with former WWE talents Lanny Poffo, Jimmy Hart, Outback Jack, Bushwacker Luke and Fred Ottman (Tugboat)

There is said to be serious talk within WWE of ending the current storyline with Rusev, Summer Rae, Dolph Ziggler and Lana with Lana being put back with Rusev. The feeling is that both the Rusev and Lana characters ended up weaker when they were apart. It may be a while before the decision is made as Lana can't return to action for four months.

Tonight's TNA Impact Wrestling is being billed as winner takes all as Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter leads teams into the Lethal Lockdown, with the loser being gone "forever" and the winner getting the entire company

Well, art is imitating life, which is imitating art as PWInsider.com has confirmed that the deal that saw Jarrett return to TNA for this storyline included Dixie Carter/Panda Energy buying Jarrett out of his minority ownership of TNA Wrestling.

TNA, when asked for comment this morning, sent the following statement:

The real-life drama between Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett, that for weeks has played out on IMPACT WRESTLING, will all come to a head tonight in a shares vs shares, Winner Take All match. It is true that if Dixie's Team TNA defeats Team GFW, Dixie will acquire Jeff's shares in TNA and he will no longer be a stakeholder ...

Panda was pitched and purchased the majority ownership in the company, with The Jarretts each retaining a minority share. Jerry was later bought out while Jeff retained his shares ...

The deal allows for both sides to end up parting on good terms. Dixie Carter and Panda Energy get complete ownership of Dixie's company. Jarrett gets bought out and is given some nice "parting gifts" as the deal also saw Jarrett brought back for a final storyline, be put over at Slammiversary, be inducted into the TNA Hall of Fame (which I am told was added later after the initial deal was agreed upon), be given promotion for Jarrett's Global Force Wrestling promotion on TNA TV and GFW having the rights to book TNA talents on their events.
Debunks the rumors of a possible GFW-TNA merger or Jarrett using TNA as an easy way to get a tv deal for GFW.

The 9/15 episode of WWE Total Divas garnered 804,000 viewers for the episode built around Paige's engagement and Daniel Bryan's health, down from the previous week's 1,143,0000 viewers.

The positives WWE has right now is that they are really the only game in town to all but a tiny percentage of a wrestling fan base. But in being the only game in town, the popularity of pro wrestling is declining, even as some media sources in recent weeks have made the laughable statements that it is the most popular of any period in history, being manipulated by irrelevant numbers ...

However, the show can change its predictable pattern. The opening interview segment to set up the show inherently isn’t bad, but it would be better most weeks with half the time. The interviews, with the exception of the elite few, need an overhaul. For one, the verbiage feels overly scripted and when it does, whatever goal or message is lost ...

What’s weird is, and there are always exceptions, but as a general rule, the promos, both believability and effectiveness, of wrestlers in the non-scripted generation blow the current generation out of the water. Having seen this generation’s guys outside the scripted environment, while not all are great, almost all are better unscripted.

There are also issues of context. Throwing out matches, even with big names and being of good quality, with no importance, has its limitations. My turn, your turn booking has created the generation of midcarders. Sting, a midcarder with some natural charisma, became an overnight superstar because he went to a 45 minute draw with Ric Flair on television. But the key was the follow-up. Had Flair then beaten Sting once each of the next two months on television, with a submission in the third match, Sting would have never been the enduring star he was. Similarly, if Undertaker, or Ultimate Warrior lost half the time on television in their first year, they’d have never gotten out of the blocks. Yet, even with Kevin Owens, a guy they were trying to make fast and the most promising talker in developmental, they gave him the big win first, and figured since they gave him that win, they could beat him constantly. So instead of being a top tier superstar, he joins the fun sea of very talented mid-carders, guys that fans know, think of as stars, have good matches, but their ability to move the needle is minimized.

Even though it didn’t work, the creation of records like with Nikki Bella’s streak, put more emphasis on the Divas title than any time in recent memory. The Twin Magic screwjob finish which is fine in certain situations, but somewhat out of context given the type of emphasis on the match, did make sense to build the rematch on the PPV. But the follow-up has to be strong ... If things are presented as if they don’t matter, in almost every case, they won’t. If they don’t matter to the participant, it’s hard for them to matter to the fan. One of the reasons real sports work is the ramifications, the exhilaration of the win, the disappointment of the loss, and even more, the follow-up. The loser creates a story as to either the mistakes he’s made, what he’s learned and how he’ll change things, or, if it is legitimate based on what happens, blames an outside party for derailing his upward mobility. When upward mobility doesn’t exist, and the context of wins and losses don’t matter, you lose a key interest element.

But you also need variety in a three-hour show. That is, very different personas, which WWE somewhat has, and a wide variety of styles, which WWE has less of than many other wrestling companies with far less resources. But all of those are minor points.

The key is making larger-than-life superstars. Whether it’s Bruno Sammartino and Superstar Graham, or Dusty Rhodes, or Hulk Hogan, or Steve Austin and The Rock, or Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Antonio Inoki, Perro Aguayo, Konnan, Mistico, or Ali, Mayweather, Leonard, or today’s Rousey and McGregor, the boom periods are either created by technological changes or larger-than-life superstars. More then boxing or MMA, pro wrestling has more ability to create them, since they can fully script their storylines and control all their outcomes to maximum benefit. But they haven’t, and for whatever reason, have dropped the ball frequently when the seeds of momentum are there because of having pigeon-holed themselves into a mentality that while certain guys are fine on the show, only a certain type can be that larger than life star ...

Yet, ironically, staring them in the face is a 5-foot-9 skinny Irishman and a woman who they are desperate to copy, yet the people in charge have absolutely no idea how she got there. And they don’t allow people to be themselves and tell their real stories enough to take advantage of what they are to have them connect at the same level ...

Wrestling at its best should be something you look forward to every week and when it’s over, can’t wait to see what happens next. It should not be something where you feel like you deserve a medal just for being able to sit through it and maintain interest in the third hour.
Part of a longer article from the Observer countering the stuff in the Grantland article about wrestling and the WWE expericing a boom in mainstream popularity. Biggest issue with the article was the numbers used were stuff manipulated by the WWE to look good to investors.


Some other sheet news includes:

The upcoming Camp WWE cartoon got delayed due to the WWE wanting Hogan removed. 2nd time its been delayed due to someone needing to be removed (CM Punk).
Current announced matches for October's NXT Special are Sasha vs Bayley for the NXT Women's title, the semis for the Dusty Tag Classic Tournament, and the finals for the Dusty Tag Classic Tournament.
Recent Micheal Cole WWE.com interview segment had Triple H as his guest with the topics involving the future of the WWE, NXT, and Seth Rollins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8TuvBH4yxQ
This week's TPWW TLP podcast episode was released today: http://tablesladderspodcast.podbean.com/e/tables-ladders-podcast-121-160915/
Recent Jim Ross podcast episode with guest Justin Roberts had Roberts stating the idea of breaks or vacations for wrestlers will never work in the WWE until management moves away from ridiculing and "punishing" those who take or request them.

[Sepholio]

Wrestlers should get like 4 months off a year, other than maybe an occasional appearance in a non-match role. Good for the wrestlers obviously, but also gives time to other talent to shine a little bit more. Plus rotating people in and out would make seeing the same people every week a little less ho-hum.

[XL]

See again, and I hate harping on this, but you sound like you are parroting the dirt sheet writers. Like as though the WWE decision makers have some fascination with pissing money away. The sports entertainment business is very subjective. There is no metric like their time in a 40 yard dash to tell you "yes, this guy will get over". But why would WWE prevent someone who could be a Steve Austin or a John Cena from reaching those heights? Its in their best interest to have that happen. The problem is fans and critics get too wrapped up in a few talents, and it clouds their judgment.

I remember when I made my highly anticipated return here, and read a post about how great Ryback was. I was shocked. I couldnt believe ANYONE saw Ryback as a potential headliner. But someone did. To me, he's just another guy, he's no better or worse than The Miz or a Dolph Ziggler. Nice hands, but they'll never take you to the promise land. Now, are they caught up in some glass ceiling BS or do they just lack all the tools you need to be elite in this game? In my view, I can see the massive holes in the respective games. But other people will say "oh Triple H this or Stephanie that or Vince is old, blah blah blah". I guess its open to interpretation.

The issue I think people have with the booking is there is a segment of the audience that wants to see the next guy breakthrough, and they want it to happen NOW. The problem is if you look at history, even the all time greats took YEARS to get established. The Rock is probably the greatest pure talent in the history of the game, but it took him 2 years of middling programs before they put the big belt on them, and probably another 4 months before he was booked as a strong main eventer and not a chicken shit heel. Same with HHH, actually longer with him, and Austin as well. You cant push Cesaro, Owens, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt, and Ryback as main eventers all at the same time. There's not enough main event spots for that. Its Rollins time, its Reigns' time. In time, some of these other guys will get a shot.

Sandow is just a comedy act. Its like saying why didnt Paul Heyman take it to the next level with the Blue Meanie. He's just a joke guy. Thats all he will ever be. Have you ever seen him work an actual match? He cant hold the crowd for more than 2 minutes. You want him headlining PPVs?

Just to pick up on that last point: this is the underlying problem with your mentality, and unfortunately it seems to be shared by the guys booking/running WWE; if a guy can't be "The Guy" then he's worthless.

Literally nobody is saying Sandow should be headlining. What they are saying is that Sandow has *some* value that's been wasted. Whether he's headliner material or not there was a period at the start of the year where the crowd were into the guy and WWE pissed it away.

Who's saying that Ziggler/Owens/Rusev/Cesaro can "lead the company to its next book period"? Sure there will be guys that want those individuals to we World Champ by next Monday but for the most part they just want these guys used BETTER.

If Cesaro can't be a 10/10, he might be able to be an &/10 but he's being presented as a 5/10. And they are seemingly reluctant to help him get to 8/10.

For me it'd better to have a bunch of 8/10s and a couple 10/10s (Cena, Lesnar) instead of a whole bunch of 5/10s and your two top guys.

It's great having these tip-top guys but can you hold the attention of your audience for 3 hours based on the 40 mins that they work? The whole show needs to be firing on all cyclinders. Or at least trying.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Good explanation, XL.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Some guys are overexposed. Sheamus immediately comes to mind. The dude can work, has got an intimidating look and can even talk. I imagine him facing The Rock, doing that pull to the top rope thing he does, coming off with a battering ram and sending The Rock flying across the ring with the ridiculous selling he does and it is marvelous. But he's on TV every week cutting cookie-cutter promos basically playing "grouchy coward who does his moves."

I wonder why they have Seth Rollins do story time in the opening segment and then do a backstage interview later in the show (I've noticed this double-up a lot lately). It is probably to fill time, but I always preferred his backstage segments. I used to think it might have just been the presentation, but Rollins is actually sharper in those interview segments. Could it be because they are less scripted? Here's a guy who used to pluck Jim Cornette for advice. I can't believe he's not thinking of promos for his matches all the time. Occasionally it seems like he gets one in around the times he is rehearsing lines.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've decided that I really want to see a heel Eddie and Orlando Colon vs. face Dudley Boyz feud. I don't know why, but I just feel like that would be tag team greatness.

[Innovator]

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That time the Women's Title changed hands because HBK said so

[EzekielKane]

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That time the Women's Title changed hands because HBK said so

lol forgot Debra existed until now...

[Emperor Smeat]

https://31.media.tumblr.com/61b22c4b59fc6d3066121270e2fc159a/tumblr_n1x926SFTK1s1uj0qo1_400.gif

[Nicky Fives]

Wrestlers should get like 4 months off a year, other than maybe an occasional appearance in a non-match role. Good for the wrestlers obviously, but also gives time to other talent to shine a little bit more. Plus rotating people in and out would make seeing the same people every week a little less ho-hum.

in a perfect world that may happen, but nobody is going to pay talent just to keep them off tv, not will they be able to sign an exclusive contract because the talent would not be paid enough to sit at home for those 4 months and not work elsewhere.....

[Rammsteinmad]

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Kickout at never?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The more I think about the possibility of a legit wrestling "off-season" the more I love the idea. WrestleMania. The red hot Raw the next night. Maybe even a live SmackDown on Tuesday as sort of a "preview" to set the stage for the upcoming season.

Then, they go on break. "Best of" shows or old PPVs or something are shown in the current TV timeslots along with hype of the new season. Then whenever the new "season" starts, brand new storylines commence and everyone is refreshed and interested again. Much more interesting than the usual course of the post-WM PPV which is to just rehash the same programs all month.

I realize it will never happen because of the impact on ratings during the month or so they are off not to mention losing the revenue from a month of live events, but fuck it would be nice to give everyone a chance to rest and recharge.</font>

[The CyNick]

No, all that proves is that WWE was stupid back then as it is now. They moved him because to THEM RAW was the "A" show and Smackdown the "B" show. And because they presented it that way the fans began to believe it too. The brand split failed because WWE failed to actually commit to it.



What Territory did YOU book? At least he has actual experience in the business instead of just being some armchair booker like yourself who thinks he knows more about the wrestling business just because he's watched it from the outside.

So in your mind RAW shouldnt be booked as the A show? At the end of the day TV contracts should dictate which is the A show and which is the B show. For example, if SD were to get on NBC in prime time, and for some reason NBC paid more for the property than USA is paying for RAW, then you load up SD, and that becomes the A tour. There's reality of the business that some people cant seem to grasp.

Thats not fair. I dont claim to know more than the people who run WWE. Thats what people on places like this do. "Oh if only WWE knew how to book Dean Ambrose would be leading the WWE into another Attitude Era, but sources say Triple H doesnt like Dean because of his ratty wife beaters, and because he refuses to go to the gym with him and Sheamus, and therefore he wont get pushed. Of course plans can always change".

[The CyNick]

That's EXACTLY what we're all saying! It takes time, effort, good stories, etc to build a superstar. They're not just magically there. No one, not you, not me, not Vince McMahon saw Dwayne Johnson as being the "next big thing" when he premiered. To everyone he was thought of just the way you described Ryback, Ziggler, etc. He was just another guy. It took time and effort put into him to build him into "The Rock". No one is saying that Cesaro, Owens, or even Reigns should be pushed to the moon right this second. What we're saying is that they should be given the chance to actually develop the way the Rock did. Actually put them in matches and feuds that matter and let them actually build steam. Don't put them in shit feuds and stories only to get buried over and over again until they're doing love triangle stories that belong on Jerry Springer.

Actually, they did see DJ as the next best thing, they just gave him a gimmick that didnt catch on.

no no, read the threads on this site. Lots of people say all those guys you mentioned should be headlining right now. And 50-50 booking hurts them.

What shit storyline has Kevin Owens been in? Bray Wyatt? Ambrose? Most of these guys have been booked well, they just are in the slot below main event status. But some people see that as ruining them.

[The CyNick]

Wishbone basically did all the schooling that needs to be done here. I can't believe you label people are parroting dirt sheet writers and then don't listen to the guys that actually have experience in the business.

Just to correct you though, Wishbone -- a few people did see money in The Rock when they first saw him. Jim Cornette definitely did, and I believe Jim Ross did too. Cornette, in particular, told Vince McMahon to present The Rock well, because he'll be your World Champion in five years. Then The Rock did it in like two. He actually had a very meteoric rise where he was presented well, so I don't know what CyNick is saying about this journeyman story for him, not that this was anyone's point to retort in the first place.

Three things:

1. I dont claim to know the business better than Vince and co. Thats the gimmick of the dirt sheet writers so they can get rubes to pay $11 a month to hear them bellyache.

2. Everyone saw the potential in DJ. Watch the promos leading up to his debut. The WWE knew what they had. He just debuted with a bad gimmick.

3. Because of the bad gimmick his push was cooled off. He was put in random programs for a while until he finally hit his stride with the heel turn. My point is, just because Rock didnt headline Wrestlemania 13, doesnt mean it prevented him from headlining Wrestlemania after Wrestlemania after that. Similarly a guy like Cesaro or Owens will have the opportunity to get there as well. But will they be like DJ and knock it out of the park or will they fall on their face. Thats up to the talent, there's no hidden agenda against those guys reaching Rocky level success.

[The CyNick]

I can intellectually appreciate the desire to have one World Champion. I really can. Emotionally, I just don't feel it working though. It's the same reason a Cruiserweight Title is actually a bad idea. You'll either end up with cruiserweights that are too good for the Cruiserweight Title, rendering it meaningless; or a bunch of guys fighting for the "little man's" championship and never getting out.

I don't think you can call for the creative teams to be autonomous AND have some sort of shared stake to the championship. Maybe in a perfect world, but I just can't see the collaboration needed to put together what would essentially be joint PPVs happening with one World Championship. That's just my feeling on the matter -- I'd eat my words if they pulled it off.

Having two world champions is equivalent to having no world champions. Essentially you are just creating two secondary championships.

The whole point of a World Championship is to say this guy is #1. If you have two guys claiming to be #1, neither really is.

[The CyNick]

I could say the same thing.

Cena only got over because he was given a chance to develop on a show with half a roster. If he had come in as the Prototype and had to compete with Evolution, Steiner, Booker, and the rest of the guys on the Raw roster in addition to the guys he was already up against on SmackDown for air time, he'd have been released within a year.

First, Cena's talent would have won the day. Steiner and Booker cant hang with Cena, that would have been clear within a month. Second, Cena had an advantage because he had the look that Vince likes, and the look that seems to get over with the WWE Universe, so he would not have been released.

[The CyNick]

Ah, thanks for the correction, dude. :y: Still I think it's safe to say that almost no fans thought he'd be a big deal upon his premier, and given said premier I'd say Vince probably didn't think there was much stock in him either at first, which is all the more reason I think brushing off guys like CyNick is just stupid. We really don't know what could be until it's been tried. Although I probably don't need to tell you that.

If you were watching WWE in 96 you would realize how off you are about Dwayne.

[The CyNick]

Just to pick up on that last point: this is the underlying problem with your mentality, and unfortunately it seems to be shared by the guys booking/running WWE; if a guy can't be "The Guy" then he's worthless.

Literally nobody is saying Sandow should be headlining. What they are saying is that Sandow has *some* value that's been wasted. Whether he's headliner material or not there was a period at the start of the year where the crowd were into the guy and WWE pissed it away.

Who's saying that Ziggler/Owens/Rusev/Cesaro can "lead the company to its next book period"? Sure there will be guys that want those individuals to we World Champ by next Monday but for the most part they just want these guys used BETTER.

If Cesaro can't be a 10/10, he might be able to be an &/10 but he's being presented as a 5/10. And they are seemingly reluctant to help him get to 8/10.

For me it'd better to have a bunch of 8/10s and a couple 10/10s (Cena, Lesnar) instead of a whole bunch of 5/10s and your two top guys.

It's great having these tip-top guys but can you hold the attention of your audience for 3 hours based on the 40 mins that they work? The whole show needs to be firing on all cyclinders. Or at least trying.

But Sandow WAS used to his complete potential. He's a funny guy, who pretty much blows in the ring. So they put him with Miz, got months and months out of a storyline, did the blow off, and then that was it. They even managed to find Sandow yet another comedy angle to work, and it was one of those things that was funny one time, but not something you are going to get long term benefit from.

People dont seem to get that the spots on TV and Network Specials are VERY limited. Just being a steady feature on the Network Specials is a big deal. You have most months 7 matches per show. At least one will be a Divas match, one will likely be a tag. So you're left with about 12-15 spots. So where do you want them to go with guys? Whats wrong with where Cesaro is right now? He just worked with Kevin Owens, who is now in an IC title fight. Who's spot should he have?

The way WWE books right now is you have your top guys (basically Cena and Rollins right now), you have some part timers who come in now and then, but primarily for Mania (Lesnar, Taker, Trips, Rock, Sting, Jericho, etc), and then you have a glut of guys who get monthly programs and are on TV every week (Reigns, Ambrose, Wyatt, Ryback, Cesaro, Owens, Sheamus, Orton, etc). And then you have a few jobberish guys who are just on RAW to get beat up but are known characters.

I just dont get where people think some of these guys should be right this moment, unless you think they should with Rollins and Cena.

[The CyNick]

Some guys are overexposed. Sheamus immediately comes to mind. The dude can work, has got an intimidating look and can even talk. I imagine him facing The Rock, doing that pull to the top rope thing he does, coming off with a battering ram and sending The Rock flying across the ring with the ridiculous selling he does and it is marvelous. But he's on TV every week cutting cookie-cutter promos basically playing "grouchy coward who does his moves."

I wonder why they have Seth Rollins do story time in the opening segment and then do a backstage interview later in the show (I've noticed this double-up a lot lately). It is probably to fill time, but I always preferred his backstage segments. I used to think it might have just been the presentation, but Rollins is actually sharper in those interview segments. Could it be because they are less scripted? Here's a guy who used to pluck Jim Cornette for advice. I can't believe he's not thinking of promos for his matches all the time. Occasionally it seems like he gets one in around the times he is rehearsing lines.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Sheamus, but he has to be featured every week because they put the MITB on him. Obviously WWE has some long term plan with him, so gotta let that play out and see where it takes us.

[Dark One]

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Cool stuff.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Three things:

1. I dont claim to know the business better than Vince and co. Thats the gimmick of the dirt sheet writers so they can get rubes to pay $11 a month to hear them bellyache.

2. Everyone saw the potential in DJ. Watch the promos leading up to his debut. The WWE knew what they had. He just debuted with a bad gimmick.

3. Because of the bad gimmick his push was cooled off. He was put in random programs for a while until he finally hit his stride with the heel turn. My point is, just because Rock didnt headline Wrestlemania 13, doesnt mean it prevented him from headlining Wrestlemania after Wrestlemania after that. Similarly a guy like Cesaro or Owens will have the opportunity to get there as well. But will they be like DJ and knock it out of the park or will they fall on their face. Thats up to the talent, there's no hidden agenda against those guys reaching Rocky level success.

1. Yes, you absolutely are. You're just attributing their viewpoints to the "dirt sheets" because it suits you.

2. Yes, they did. Casual fans may not have seen anything special though, since his original babyface appearances were so bad.

3. My point was that The Rock had an incredibly fast rise. He was the youngest WWE Champion up until that point in history. He's not really a great example to use when it comes to guys "struggling" for years. Fuck, use Bradshaw.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Sheamus, but he has to be featured every week because they put the MITB on him. Obviously WWE has some long term plan with him, so gotta let that play out and see where it takes us.

I don't think I agree with this. I mean, I get your point -- building him would seem wise -- but they tend to fuck up Money in the Bank Winners. It might have been cooler to have Sheamus win the briefcase then disappear. Everyone would know he held it, but the next time you see him is when he's cashing in. Maybe it'll get a reaction that way?

[The CyNick]

1. Yes, you absolutely are. You're just attributing their viewpoints to the "dirt sheets" because it suits you.

2. Yes, they did. Casual fans may not have seen anything special though, since his original babyface appearances were so bad.

3. My point was that The Rock had an incredibly fast rise. He was the youngest WWE Champion up until that point in history. He's not really a great example to use when it comes to guys "struggling" for years. Fuck, use Bradshaw.

I only snipe at people who claim they know how to book better than the guy who turned a carny business into a nearly multi billion dollar empire.

People on here are complaining about guys like Kevin Owens, who have been on TV for 6 months. This would be like complaining that Rock didnt work Mania v Taker and instead was facing The Sultan. Thats my point. Which is a good one if I dont say so myself.

[The CyNick]

I don't think I agree with this. I mean, I get your point -- building him would seem wise -- but they tend to fuck up Money in the Bank Winners. It might have been cooler to have Sheamus win the briefcase then disappear. Everyone would know he held it, but the next time you see him is when he's cashing in. Maybe it'll get a reaction that way?

I mean you could do that, but you going to tell Sheamus he's going to make less money because you want to keep him off TV?

Rollins was the last MITB winner, and he was used pretty effectively.

They had their share of bad MITB winners, but a lot of that was when they had the stupid brand split, and watered everything down. Thankfully nobody in power is suggesting another brand split.

[The CyNick]

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Cool stuff.

Seriously, why ANYONE chants Cena Sucks is beyond me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

But Sandow WAS used to his complete potential. He's a funny guy, who pretty much blows in the ring. So they put him with Miz, got months and months out of a storyline, did the blow off, and then that was it. They even managed to find Sandow yet another comedy angle to work, and it was one of those things that was funny one time, but not something you are going to get long term benefit from.

People dont seem to get that the spots on TV and Network Specials are VERY limited. Just being a steady feature on the Network Specials is a big deal. You have most months 7 matches per show. At least one will be a Divas match, one will likely be a tag. So you're left with about 12-15 spots. So where do you want them to go with guys? Whats wrong with where Cesaro is right now? He just worked with Kevin Owens, who is now in an IC title fight. Who's spot should he have?

The way WWE books right now is you have your top guys (basically Cena and Rollins right now), you have some part timers who come in now and then, but primarily for Mania (Lesnar, Taker, Trips, Rock, Sting, Jericho, etc), and then you have a glut of guys who get monthly programs and are on TV every week (Reigns, Ambrose, Wyatt, Ryback, Cesaro, Owens, Sheamus, Orton, etc). And then you have a few jobberish guys who are just on RAW to get beat up but are known characters.

I just dont get where people think some of these guys should be right this moment, unless you think they should with Rollins and Cena.

No, Sandow was not used to his complete potential, and I don't think you'll find many people (including the WWE it now seems) that will agree with your opinion on that. If the WWE admits they are wrong on a subject by pushing a guy that was used to his maximum potential, does your tone change on them?

I think what you're not getting is that people want to see better booking top-to-bottom on WWE shows. Some want to see the part-timers cooled off and other guys heated up. Others want the Intercontinental Title to actually mean something. Some want to see SmackDown used more effectively than it currently is, with guys being allowed to grow their personalities on it, instead of just doing maintenance television every week.

Your argument basically comes down to "The WWE is shit. Therefore you should like shit. Why do people want something other than shit? What do you expect to see if not shit?" People want it to be be DIFFERENT. You can't use the same to discredit fruit of change.

Cesaro has been booked HORRENDOUSLY. They gave him the big Battle Royal win...then had him lose almost every match he ever had with Heyman by his side. That's a great way to sell the guy as a world-beater, right? Ambrose has been booked terribly. He was getting hot, so what does the company do? Have him lose all his big matches and take away his top feud by putting him in a program with a guy returning off hiatus and needs wins himself. Ambrose then suddenly forgets that he hates Rollins for a few months.

Orton could have been white-hot earlier this year, but they turned him heel...then turned him face again. Brilliant. Owens could be a threat that invests people by scaring little kids that love Cena and thrilling fans that want his blood. Reigns has been given too strong a push with too little development, now his best chance is bad booking making him attractive to smart fans, etc.

You seem to like what the WWE does. That's cool. You're allowed to. But people aren't wrong for not being into a cold product that produces no real stars. It doesn't make them product of the dirt sheets -- you can feel how vacuous these shows are as you watch them, and you can pinpoint old, old rules of both wrestling and television that are very often being broken.

[Damian Rey]

Except Kevin Owens' debut match saw him cleanly and convincingly defeat the top face in the industry. And therein lies the issues. They give the guy a rub of a lifetime, then bury him in consecutive losses, and now he's going after a different title in an afterthought match.

I don't care ho long Vince has booking. That's not in any logical way a productive approach to trying to create new talent.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean you could do that, but you going to tell Sheamus he's going to make less money because you want to keep him off TV?

Rollins was the last MITB winner, and he was used pretty effectively.

They had their share of bad MITB winners, but a lot of that was when they had the stupid brand split, and watered everything down. Thankfully nobody in power is suggesting another brand split.

"Hey Sheamus, want to take some time off from television to visit family back home, appear in a movie or two, rest up, maybe do a few charity appearances?"
"No, fella."
"I'll make you World Champion at the end of it."
"Give me a sec..."

I'm not sure Sheamus gets paid by appearance either. He might miss out on merchandise sales if he's not hot on TV moving shirts or something, but he's not doing that now. Boom.

Rollins was booked better when he MITB than when he was World Champion.

I don't think you're in there to know.

[The CyNick]

Except Kevin Owens' debut match saw him cleanly and convincingly defeat the top face in the industry. And therein lies the issues. They give the guy a rub of a lifetime, then bury him in consecutive losses, and now he's going after a different title in an afterthought match.

I don't care ho long Vince has booking. That's not in any logical way a productive approach to trying to create new talent.

You realize how ignorant that sounds?

He lost a 2-1 series against the TOP FACE IN THE INDUSTRY

IWC logic = He's buried

Amazing

[Mr. Nerfect]

You're completely missing Damian's point, CyNick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I only snipe at people who claim they know how to book better than the guy who turned a carny business into a nearly multi billion dollar empire.

People on here are complaining about guys like Kevin Owens, who have been on TV for 6 months. This would be like complaining that Rock didnt work Mania v Taker and instead was facing The Sultan. Thats my point. Which is a good one if I dont say so myself.

No, what people are complaining about is if you got The Rock when he was the hottest prospect in the business, then went nowhere with him instead of capitalizing on those moments.

I'm don't even believe that Kevin Owens is ruined -- but he's a lot colder than he was when he first showed up, and he's now going to go after a title after failing to win another one. Championships as consolation prizes aren't always the best idea.

[#1-norm-fan]

I personally don't give a shit where guys are on the card (I mean... some make more sense. Like Cena being on top because he's the draw. Having him open every show while far lesser guys headline is just ass backwards). Just... book them in interesting angles and make their characters intriguing.

And as far as the "Vince is the most successful booker/promoter ever therefore he is right and you're all wrong" thing...

Sometimes people are really good at something and then "lose it".

Vince is still a marketing genius and he's good at keeping the hype machine going. But booking-wise... I mean... come on. No one over the age of 10 who hasn't already been drawn in to just love pro wrestling regardless is tuning in for the compelling television that's being written.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wham, bam, thank you, fan.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just for argument's sake: I'm listening to an old JR podcast right now where he says he took criticism for signing The Rock initially. That surely changed fairly early, but it's not like everyone in the WWE knew from day one, apparently.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't want Cesaro to be the World Champion right now. But I do want my fandom in him to be rewarded by seeing him stretch himself in ways that make me think "one day." Right now, I get hammered with this feeling that they want to see him fall flat on his face. You can say that as a viewer I am wrong, but it's only really professional wrestling that gets to say "You, the fan, are incorrect for feeling what you are feeling."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tough Enough flopped. But Vince McMahon can't do wrong because he's a billionaire, right?

[Maluco]

There is a lot of text and a lot of back and forward but the bottom line is that WWE TV is just not very good. It's repetitive, the angles are boring and can even hurt the people in them (see Rusev/Dolph) and yes, its smart to run your business geared towards kids who come out to see John Cena, he is great at that.

But the TV is boring and stale and has been for a long time. So someone, somewhere is not talented enough to produce good, compelling TV.

[Maluco]

I really don't care who wins and loses, I just want to get invested in stories and rivalries and have something creative and different for guys to feud over, rather than "I pinned you in a non-title match"

It is very frustrating as a fan, I used to love Raw and would actually look forward to it. Still love PPV's baceuse the matches are great, but can't even sit through Raw anymore...

[ron the dial]

i sit through raw and even smackdown every fuckin week and it has almost become a chore for a long time. not sure why i even bother with smackdown, but i do. they can't book a compelling storyline for anything. at least not one that lasts longer than a month. maybe a month. 2 weeks.

[Damian Rey]

CyNick swinging and missing in the point. What benefit did Owens receive after besting Cena in his debut match, only t lose every encounter thereafter, and is then cooled off into a heat less feud for a perceived lesser title? How is that booking progressive in any way? How would casual fan view Owens as anything more than a one hit wonder?

And it's not just Owens that's been a victim of the stop/start push. Ambrose, Wyatt, Cesaro, Ziggler, Rusev, etc. All these young, fresh, talented newcomers who can't get out of the blocks because Vince and his "greatest promoter ever" booking won't take a chance on pushing any of them and sticking with it.

How is Bray Wyatt not the top heel in the company? How did they fuck up a once incredibly refreshing, different heel? I mean, they know how top book right?

[ron the dial]

ok to be fair i fast forward through almost anything involving ryback/the miz/big show. but i watch everything else.

[Damian Rey]

Of course you do. What has any of them been involved in that would make you care? The Ryback comes out talking about the fucking Secret. This guy is supposed to be a hungry monster and he's getting all sensitive on us.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ryback talking about The Secret ranks just below Big Show blubbering in the ring.

[Damian Rey]

When they sent that big bastard out there to pour his heart out I lost faith in creative's ability to take advantage of the monster appeal Ryback had.

The way he was booked going against Punk was perfect. It's a shame they can't figure out how they did that the first time through.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I missed the promo. I liked the idea of Ryback "waking up" and realizing the hero he could be to the people. Not so sure about the guy taking book recommendations from Oprah.

[Lock Jaw]

Too much blather in this thread right now...

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/11939659_443993935811862_1603164602_n.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/11934721_1499362050361916_1729400970_n.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

http://i.imgur.com/3myB7OQ.gif

[Lock Jaw]

https://igcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t51.2885-15/e35/11821817_1624640291151144_1489178264_n.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO_q3YlU8AAOt3C.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

http://i.giflike.com/cpa4c1H.gif

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Seriously, why ANYONE chants Cena Sucks is beyond me.

Beyond you in intelligence. Just because he's a good guy doesn't make him a good wrestler.

John Cena sucks.

[Damian Rey]

More Emma-tainment please.

[Lock Jaw]

https://igcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t51.2885-15/e35/11909376_476617575849235_2066333082_n.jpg

[Mr. Nerfect]

Too much blather in this thread right now...

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/11939659_443993935811862_1603164602_n.jpg

Who is the girl on the left?

[Mr. Nerfect]

https://igcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t51.2885-15/e35/11821817_1624640291151144_1489178264_n.jpg

https://igcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t51.2885-15/e35/11909376_476617575849235_2066333082_n.jpg

Dear fucking lord.

[Lock Jaw]

Who is the girl on the left?

Looks like WWE Hall of Famer Lita

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh shit, it is too. The hair threw me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn't spend much time looking at Lita's face evidently...

[The CyNick]

No, what people are complaining about is if you got The Rock when he was the hottest prospect in the business, then went nowhere with him instead of capitalizing on those moments.

I'm don't even believe that Kevin Owens is ruined -- but he's a lot colder than he was when he first showed up, and he's now going to go after a title after failing to win another one. Championships as consolation prizes aren't always the best idea.

So who is at the level of The Rock that is being passed over? This will be good.

[The CyNick]

You're completely missing Damian's point, CyNick.

Enlighten me on his point

He said Owens got screwed by going 1-2 against Cena

How did Austin do going 0-2 vs Bret?

You know the difference? Austin > Owens. Not Vince is a terrible booker.

Typical of today's society, look to blame someone other than the dude in the mirror.

[The CyNick]

Wham, bam, thank you, fan.

Considering I was posting here 10 ago, I guess you guys were 0 back then. Or you like childish programming. Speaks badly of us all I guess.

[The CyNick]

"Hey Sheamus, want to take some time off from television to visit family back home, appear in a movie or two, rest up, maybe do a few charity appearances?"
"No, fella."
"I'll make you World Champion at the end of it."
"Give me a sec..."

I'm not sure Sheamus gets paid by appearance either. He might miss out on merchandise sales if he's not hot on TV moving shirts or something, but he's not doing that now. Boom.

Rollins was booked better when he MITB than when he was World Champion.

I don't think you're in there to know.

Guys get paid more for being on the road.

[The CyNick]

Just for argument's sake: I'm listening to an old JR podcast right now where he says he took criticism for signing The Rock initially. That surely changed fairly early, but it's not like everyone in the WWE knew from day one, apparently.

Maybe there were some guys against it, but thats just speculation. Going by the TV that was presented, he was positioned to be the next one.

[The CyNick]

I don't want Cesaro to be the World Champion right now. But I do want my fandom in him to be rewarded by seeing him stretch himself in ways that make me think "one day." Right now, I get hammered with this feeling that they want to see him fall flat on his face. You can say that as a viewer I am wrong, but it's only really professional wrestling that gets to say "You, the fan, are incorrect for feeling what you are feeling."

I like him too, a lot. But I still see holes in his game. On top of that, how did you feel about HHH when he was rolling around in slop. But you know what happened? He fought his way to the top. Talent wins out. We'll see what Cesaro really has.

Its like some people here want every guy with potential to get the Goldberg push.

[The CyNick]

Tough Enough flopped. But Vince McMahon can't do wrong because he's a billionaire, right?

This is some sad attempt at debating.

Where did I ever say Vince was right 100% of the time?

Im saying I think he understands booking better than anyone else on the planet. Nobody is close. So if you give me the option of trusting Vince's opinion on someone or not, I will always side with him. Doesn't mean I expect to be right 100% of the time.

[The CyNick]

There is a lot of text and a lot of back and forward but the bottom line is that WWE TV is just not very good. It's repetitive, the angles are boring and can even hurt the people in them (see Rusev/Dolph) and yes, its smart to run your business geared towards kids who come out to see John Cena, he is great at that.

But the TV is boring and stale and has been for a long time. So someone, somewhere is not talented enough to produce good, compelling TV.

And yet you continue to watch and always will. What a crap show.

[The CyNick]

CyNick swinging and missing in the point. What benefit did Owens receive after besting Cena in his debut match, only t lose every encounter thereafter, and is then cooled off into a heat less feud for a perceived lesser title? How is that booking progressive in any way? How would casual fan view Owens as anything more than a one hit wonder?

And it's not just Owens that's been a victim of the stop/start push. Ambrose, Wyatt, Cesaro, Ziggler, Rusev, etc. All these young, fresh, talented newcomers who can't get out of the blocks because Vince and his "greatest promoter ever" booking won't take a chance on pushing any of them and sticking with it.

How is Bray Wyatt not the top heel in the company? How did they fuck up a once incredibly refreshing, different heel? I mean, they know how top book right?

What benefit did Owens get from beating Cena? Check out his push vs that of Neville. That should help clarify things for ya. If it doesn't, there's little to no hope.

I like Wyatt too, but outside his entrance he's not there, his promos are death to the live audience WHAT?

Again, so of Wyatt, Cesaro, Ziggler, Ambrose, or Rusev who should be headlining right now? Would business be better with them on top instead of say Rollins? Got news for you, Rollins is better than all those guys right now. Thats why he is where he is, and they are where they are.

You're doing the sad typical IWC thing of thinking Vince doesnt want guys to become The Rock or Austin. You posting on a message board who stands to gain nothing from WWE success sees things clearer than the guy who's entire like is WWE? You see the absurdity of that thinking?

[The CyNick]

Beyond you in intelligence. Just because he's a good guy doesn't make him a good wrestler.

John Cena sucks.

I crown you King of the Too Cool for School Crowd

[Damian Rey]

Enlighten me on his point

He said Owens got screwed by going 1-2 against Cena

How did Austin do going 0-2 vs Bret?

You know the difference? Austin > Owens. Not Vince is a terrible booker.

Typical of today's society, look to blame someone other than the dude in the mirror.

I think you're illiterate.

Except Kevin Owens' debut match saw him cleanly and convincingly defeat the top face in the industry. And therein lies the issues. They give the guy a rub of a lifetime, then bury him in consecutive losses, and now he's going after a different title in an afterthought match.

Where's the part where I said he was screwed? Austin isn't even remotely comparable. He lost to a roll up in a way that still protected him. He then wasn't subsequently fed to Bret in convincingly losing efforts. He lost a match that again protected him in a loss and ultimately made him due to not giving up and the match being called.

Owens, just like Rusev, lost consecutive matches in a manner that didn't protect them or elevate them, and were shortly bumped down the card into meaningless feuds that have only further diminished any momentum they gained after initially defeating Cena in their first encounter.

Imagine had Austin lost to Bret the first time, then again the following month, them getss bumped down the card and is no longer a featured player, instead feuding for the not so coveted European title.

How you could even remotely think Austin is comparable to any of the current young guys who've been stunted by awful booking decisions is beyond me.

[Maluco]

And yet you continue to watch and always will. What a crap show.

Literally said in that post above that I didn't watch. I have tried a few times but usually don't bother. Thought that was clear from the post. I think it is a crap show and I try to watch it from time to time, as a fan of wrestling, but its been a long time since I made it through a whole Raw.

[Damian Rey]

The hulu replay helps a ton.

[The CyNick]

I think you're illiterate.



Where's the part where I said he was screwed? Austin isn't even remotely comparable. He lost to a roll up in a way that still protected him. He then wasn't subsequently fed to Bret in convincingly losing efforts. He lost a match that again protected him in a loss and ultimately made him due to not giving up and the match being called.

Owens, just like Rusev, lost consecutive matches in a manner that didn't protect them or elevate them, and were shortly bumped down the card into meaningless feuds that have only further diminished any momentum they gained after initially defeating Cena in their first encounter.

Imagine had Austin lost to Bret the first time, then again the following month, them getss bumped down the card and is no longer a featured player, instead feuding for the not so coveted European title.

How you could even remotely think Austin is comparable to any of the current young guys who've been stunted by awful booking decisions is beyond me.

So did Owens lose matches 2 and 3 in 5 minute squashes? Because that would actually make your point. Oh whats that? That didnt happen... he kicked out of like 200 AA's? Hmmm.

In the first Bret-Austin fight Austin lost to a rollup, and it was done in a manner to make it look like Austin made a mistake. The 2nd fight was Bret beat the shit out of Austin, beat him literally to a pulp, the saving grace was they told the story that Austin was tough and refused to give up. But if you were to look at both matches, Austin was positioned to be closer to beating Bret the first time. If they did that today with Cena and Owens, the people like you would post "berrrrrrried" right after the fight.

Owens went from Cena to headlining the biggest NXT event in history to a match with Cesaro. Who should he have be put with after Cena?

And the difference between Austin and all these guys is that Austin proved he could hang with Bret. None of the guys today can hang with Cena. You know what is the most real promo that has been cut in the last few years? Its the one where Cena talks about wanting to pass the torch, but he's not just going to hand it over, someone needs to take it from him. In the promo he talks about how guys get a certain level of popularity, and they claim to be the next one. Then the match happens and all you hear is "Lets Go Cena, Cena Sucks". Cena might as well be wrestling a broom, because he's the one drawing the babyface AND the heel heat, and all these guys prove to be interchangeable. As a result, they go into the heap of guys who are interchangeable. Austin on the other hand was booked no differently than a guy like Kevin Owens, but he proved he could hang with the guy who was seen as the very best. Not only did he hang, but he started taking fans from him (hence the Mania double turn). Guys in this era have been given that chance, but they hit fly balls to the track when they are up to the plate. When someone hits a homerun, then they will be booked as star.

[The CyNick]

Literally said in that post above that I didn't watch. I have tried a few times but usually don't bother. Thought that was clear from the post. I think it is a crap show and I try to watch it from time to time, as a fan of wrestling, but its been a long time since I made it through a whole Raw.

So then you're opinion on any of this is rather irrelevant because by your own admission, you are watching very little. Its like reading 10 pages of a book and saying the storyline wasnt compelling enough.

[ron the dial]

I read the whole book and it isn't.

[DaveWadding]

Just FYI, I was a casual fan in 96 and I loved the Rock from day one (but I was like 10). Never got tired of him (loved the Nation over DX, even) and never turned on him. Loved Heel Rock.

[Damian Rey]

So did Owens lose matches 2 and 3 in 5 minute squashes? Because that would actually make your point. Oh whats that? That didnt happen... he kicked out of like 200 AA's? Hmmm.

In the first Bret-Austin fight Austin lost to a rollup, and it was done in a manner to make it look like Austin made a mistake. The 2nd fight was Bret beat the shit out of Austin, beat him literally to a pulp, the saving grace was they told the story that Austin was tough and refused to give up. But if you were to look at both matches, Austin was positioned to be closer to beating Bret the first time. If they did that today with Cena and Owens, the people like you would post "berrrrrrried" right after the fight.

Owens went from Cena to headlining the biggest NXT event in history to a match with Cesaro. Who should he have be put with after Cena?

And the difference between Austin and all these guys is that Austin proved he could hang with Bret. None of the guys today can hang with Cena. You know what is the most real promo that has been cut in the last few years? Its the one where Cena talks about wanting to pass the torch, but he's not just going to hand it over, someone needs to take it from him. In the promo he talks about how guys get a certain level of popularity, and they claim to be the next one. Then the match happens and all you hear is "Lets Go Cena, Cena Sucks". Cena might as well be wrestling a broom, because he's the one drawing the babyface AND the heel heat, and all these guys prove to be interchangeable. As a result, they go into the heap of guys who are interchangeable. Austin on the other hand was booked no differently than a guy like Kevin Owens, but he proved he could hang with the guy who was seen as the very best. Not only did he hang, but he started taking fans from him (hence the Mania double turn). Guys in this era have been given that chance, but they hit fly balls to the track when they are up to the plate. When someone hits a homerun, then they will be booked as star.

Another swing and a miss. He was booked different in that he continued to be placed into relevant feuds that kept progressing his character. Owens for bumped down to Cesaro and again bumped into a baseless match work Ryback. When did Austin get moved down the card to feud with guys who've had zero direction? Oh, he didn't. That's right.

You're fucking daft if you think anyone outside of Cena has been given a legitimate opportunity. The guys he's wrestling are interchangeable because that's the way they are presented. How do you expect the talent move forward if they're suddenly dropped into feuds about losing their girlfriends or against a guy who's most recent success was being a tag team champion? Is that how they booked Austin into becoming a star?

Cena is also given the OPPORTUNITY to cut a heartfelt promo. Outside of Punk's pipe bomb when was the last time anyone was given ten minutes to just let loose and show some real personality instead of the same old tired pre written promo they've been doling out for years? Can you name one?

And please explain how going from beating the top face of the company, to the lose to him twice in consecutive matches, to headlining the developmental league show, to going on to face two guys who've done jack shit in the last number of years is in beneficial? Can you elaborate how that opportunity is the same as Austin and how that is being given a chance to "hit a homerun"? Because I'm baffled as to how that's supposed to help.

Any nobody can hang with Cena? Had you noticed nobody raved about his matches until the US title open started and he suddenly started working matches against guys like Owens, Cesaro, Zayne, etc , guys who were already known as great in ring talent? I don't recall anybody going ape shit watching Rusev and Cena go at it. Owens could clearly "hang" with Cena. His current status as with most of the roster has more to do with how the talent is presented that the talent themselves.

Nobody has or had a problem with Owens losing. It was the consecutiv loses and immediate bump back into obscurity that people bitch about. That didn't happen to Austin, regardless of whatever bull shit parallels you're going to try to pull out of your ass, they're not the same.

[Emperor Smeat]

Dirtsheets sponsored by #NewDayBooty:
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WWE has added their first-ever DVD and Blu-ray on The Dudley Boyz to the 2016 schedule, according to WrestlingDVDNetwork.com.

No word yet if WWE’s first set on Bubba Ray and Devon will be a documentary or a match compilation, or a mix of both, but both of them will be involved now that they are back with WWE.

This will be the first WWE Superstar-themed DVD release for 2016. Back in April, WWE mentioned a potential Dudleyz DVD on one of their Fan Council surveys. That blurb read like this:

“Dudley Boyz Biography: Arguably the most successful tag team in the history of sports entertainment. Hear from Bubba Ray and D-Von as they discuss theirs trials and tribulations from the bottom to the top and what made they did that helped them become so successful.”

Wednesday's TNA Impact Wrestling television drew 323,000 total viewers (for the first and second airing combined). Viewership was down from the 449,000 viewers the show drew last week.
ROH was also down by around 40,000 viewers for the week.

A lot of fans felt like your Raw promo a few weeks back 'put Triple H over' at the expense of yourself and your feud with Rollins. How do you respond to that?
I don't pay attention a lot of times to what's out there, so this is the first time I'm hearing any news of that. I don't think there's anyone who's going to carry all that to Night of Champions and think about that, because the bottom line is, my focus is Seth Rollins. Triple H is Triple H, and he's worth the put-over ...

Should you lose at Night of Champions, does it paint a picture that you were brought to WWE primarily to put others over rather than enhance your own legacy?
I had my time. There's no question about that. For a guy my age to be where I am right now is, to me, next to impossible. And yet, I'm here. It's not about Sting, not anymore. You're asking a straight-up question, I'll give ya a straight-up answer. That's it, and I am just fine with that.

Part of a recent interview Sting had with Rolling Stones. http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/sting-speaks-the-wrestling-icon-on-joining-wwe-and-feuding-with-seth-rollins-20150916

New season of Total Divas that is currently filming, Naomi is back off the show, which she’s noted publicly, which also means her husband is off as well, and Amanda Saccomanno from Tough enough has been signed and is replacing her in the cast as we had said looked to be the case last week
Besides Amanda, the other runner up from last season ZZ also rumored to have signed a NXT/WWE deal recently.

Then came word on 9/14 that CMLL has banned any of its wrestlers from appearing on any shows that Park or Wagner Jr. are booked on, and has said that the ban is permanent. Right now, a few indie promoters faced with that ultimatum have chosen to use Park and Wagner Jr., who are bigger draws, which has cost CMLL talent work. That’s seemingly a huge blow to All Elite, if they are still around since they have no new shows announced. All Elite had drawn some great houses and some not so great houses this year doing shows that combined legends from the past like Octagon and Fuerza Guerrera, along with Park and Wagner Jr., and the top CMLL stars.

Triple H confirmed today that the December 16th WWE NXT "Takeover: London" event is sold out

"I need to vent, and I hope that the people involved in deciding what's next for Lucha underground read this.

I have said many times in my career, that without fan you ain't s--t. Yes, there are big names attached to Lucha Underground. There are a lot of very, very cool people behind the scenes; many of whom I consider friends for life. Some I owe so much to for letting Vampiro live again.

And there are some people, talent, who f---ing suck as human beings. Maybe they are important for this business, I don't know, but as human beings, I can't name names, cause it won't do nothing but cause a rift. But I will say it - you suck. And I am sure there are people who are sick of me, and just don't like me, and I get that, and I don't give a f---. But, together, we are LUCHA UNDERGROUND."

Vampiro continued, this time speaking directly at the network executives responsible for making the final decisions on Lucha Underground's fate. He noted that "you can't buy fans", and that without the support of the fans all around the world, LUCHA is "just another wrestling show."

"We asked for love, we got mad, mad, mad love. Now we are leaving too many people hanging for too long. We are hot. [Lucha Underground] is the s--t. But you f--- around too much, and sooner or later people forget about you." ... "LU has made me feel like living again. Like I have a family, a home. And I miss my brothers and sisters."
Recent rant by Vampiro on his Facebook page regarding the growing frustrations with Lucha Underground's management not being clear to fans and wrestlers about the status of a second season. A lot of wrestlers have either been postponing indie dates because they don't want to be left out of a new season or gave up waiting and don't care if their indie dates clash with the new season.

Talks with the Young Bucks about signing a contract are ongoing and could be fairly close. The deal would have them continue working regularly with New Japan, and also allow them to work PWG. PWG is trying to put together a deal with ROH where they can also get Adam Cole and Kyle O’Reilly back. ROH pulled their exclusive contracted talent from PWG because Cole was injured on a PWG show and they didn’t want to have their key talent risk injury because everyone works so hard on those shows. ROH also wasn’t happy last year when Michael Elgin was their world champion and he lost via pinfall in a singles match on a PWG show. The Bucks have pushed the idea that they can continue to do PWG. If they sign, that would mean there’s pretty much no chance they’re going to WWE until the end of the contract. They were put over big this weekend, winning the main event on 9/11 in Dearborn, MI, over O’Reilly & Bobby Fish, and the main event on 9/12 in Chicago Ridge, IL, beating O’Reilly & Adam Cole, the former Future Shock team"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">talking to my tailor about some. . .changes to my wardrobe
<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/future?src=hash">#future</a> 🎃 <a href="http://t.co/0ARzY0rr7q">pic.twitter.com/0ARzY0rr7q</a></p>&mdash; Stardust (@StardustWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/StardustWWE/status/644610034006028288">September 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[#1-norm-fan]

Enlighten me on his point

He said Owens got screwed by going 1-2 against Cena

How did Austin do going 0-2 vs Bret?

You know the difference? Austin > Owens. Not Vince is a terrible booker.

It could be a combination of that and the fact that WWE booking was still on-point enough to follow up with a push and keep momentum going instead of following the Bret feud by putting Austin in a boring, lifeless, nothing feud with a directionless midcarder. But since the booking was good back then, that must mean it will always be good til the end of time and all problems are 100% the wrestlers fault.

Typical of today's society, look to blame someone other than the dude in the mirror.

So it's my fault WWE can't build stars anymore and business is down? Shit.

[#1-norm-fan]

Considering I was posting here 10 ago, I guess you guys were 0 back then. Or you like childish programming. Speaks badly of us all I guess.

Also, I don't know what the hell this is supposed to mean. lol

[Damian Rey]

The idea that CyNick used Austin as a losing to Bret as an attempted parallel to Owens and Cena says all anyone should need to know.

[Simple Fan]

Anyone else watch Friends of the People. Its a sketch comedy show on TruTv and have wrestlers on every once in a while. Tatanka and D'Lo Brown were on tonight.

[Lock Jaw]

Please spin off whatever is going on with The CyNick into another thread.

[Fignuts]

Can we get a separate "argue with cynick" thread?

[Damian Rey]

Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC.

Thoughts?

[Wishbone]

Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC.

Thoughts?

Meh. :|

[Droford]

The Rock should name his kid Chip.

[screech]

Really excited at the prospect of Sting winning the title. No idea why as it would be ridiculous.

[Damian Rey]

Nostalgia. When I read that as a possibility that included a short run. But in reality it wouldn't be beneficial to anyone other than Sting.

[Droford]

Sting in WWE now just pisses me off at the thought of what he could have done in WWE if he hadn't hung around with TNA or even went there in the first place.

[Droford]

Could have had Sting vs HBK

Fuck you Steve Borden

[The CyNick]

Can we get a separate "argue with cynick" thread?

Would be the biggest thread in the history of this site

[The CyNick]

Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC.

Thoughts?

Not a fan.

There is more value in keeping Rollins as champ. He should either lose it via MITB (taste of his own medicine) or to a conquering babyface (Lesnar, Cena, Reigns).

[screech]

Nostalgia. When I read that as a possibility that included a short run. But in reality it wouldn't be beneficial to anyone other than Sting.

Probably, but I wasn't a big WCW guy. It world benefit no one but Sting and me. I would love to see him win, even though Rollins should totally retain.

[Emperor Smeat]

Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC.

Thoughts?

Find it a bit odd mostly because of the idea of giving the WWE's biggest prize to a WCW guy this soon and after all the jabs the WWE has done for years to WCW's legacy.

If Sting is winning the belt, it has to be the main event of NoC. Wouldn't make sense for the US belt to main event like rumors have been teasing for a while if that was the case.

[Simple Fan]

Sting winning is the right choice. Rollins is great but has kind of run his course as champ. Seems to me they are just wasting time getting to the Rollins / HHH feud. Have Sting, and Cena win and that would piss off HHH and not allow him to have rematches. Sting would then face Sheamus at HIAC. Don't know about Sheamus as champ though, think I'd rather have Sting have a longer reign. V

[Rammsteinmad]

Rollins has been awesome as champion. His run has been totally fresh, his matches are amazing, and he sounds more confident on the mic than he ever has. I'm happy for him to retain the title all the way to Wrestlemania, and then lose it in a Shield Triple Threat match. I don't even care who he loses it to.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Seth Rollins is the man. He should definitely win both matches at Night of Champions.

Also, Dana Brooke would get it. Just saying.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And that Devon chick that does backstage interviews in NXT...fucking sucks. What is she doing?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>WhatCulture had a brilliant YouTube series called "10 Things WWE Went You to Forget About *insert wrestler name here*" where they'd pick out a wrestler and just talk about stuff that WWE swept under the rug. Once in a while there would be something serious (ie: Austin's included his domestic violence charges) but for the most part it was light-hearted and non-malicious.

WWE finally went ahead and filed a copyright claim against them, so all the videos had to be removed. Whaddya know, I guess WWE really didn't want you to remember those things.</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

Think I'd rather see Sting as champion for a month than Rollins keep it. Since TNA doesn't exist in the "WWE universe", he's at least got some credibility as a huge star who would bring the prestige of the title up for a bit by holding it.

Honestly, I think I'd rather see Brock holding it while making his rare appearances still than have it on Seth Rollins as he jobs left and right and makes it look like a glorified title for losers. It should always be on someone ridiculously over until they're able to get someone else to that level. This "throw your world championship on a guy and hope to maybe get them over to that level later" thing is just bad for business all around and makes the title itself not draw for shit.

[Innovator]

Rollins should wipe the mat with Sting

[Wishbone]

Think I'd rather see Sting as champion for a month than Rollins keep it. Since TNA doesn't exist in the "WWE universe", he's at least got some credibility as a huge star who would bring the prestige of the title up for a bit by holding it.

Honestly, I think I'd rather see Brock holding it while making his rare appearances still than have it on Seth Rollins as he jobs left and right and makes it look like a glorified title for losers. It should always be on someone ridiculously over until they're able to get someone else to that level. This "throw your world championship on a guy and hope to maybe get them over to that level later" thing is just bad for business all around and makes the title itself not draw for shit.

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that WWE has pretty much proven they're incapable of ever getting someone even remotely close to that level without throwing the title on them. It's not right, but honestly the title really is just a prop these days. It should be the prize for guys that got to the level of mega star, but it's not, and throwing it on Sting or any other legend really isn't going to change that unfortunately. To build the title back up to being meaningful would probably take years at this point.

[#1-norm-fan]

When it was on Lesnar it was definitely gaining credibility again. Like I said, I'd rather it be on a part-time spectacle at this point rather than it being what it is now. Putting it on far lesser guys with no credibility and crossing their fingers is definitely counter-productive.

Plus, if there's ever a time to use the title to just give a guy like Sting a reign it would be now when he can actually bring up the prestige as opposed to taking it from someone like Cena or Lesnar.

[Rammsteinmad]

Nothing will ever make the WWE title prestigious to any of you ever again because you're not 10-year-old kids any more. Same as the Intercontinental and the United States titles. You should all stop banging on about it's prestige and "elevating guys" because at the end of the day, wrestling will never be the same again as it was for us all in our youths.

[Maluco]

So then you're opinion on any of this is rather irrelevant because by your own admission, you are watching very little. Its like reading 10 pages of a book and saying the storyline wasnt compelling enough.

Lol, ridiculous argument. I knew what I was watching was no compelling so I stopped. I have checked in again to see if it has changed because I very badly want it too, but it hasn't.

Terrible analogy and rather bizarre tbh.

[Ultra Mantis]

CyNick is apparently a big fan of missing the point, telling other people what they want and failing to recognise the flaws in his own work. It's not really surprising he has this stance on current WWE.

[Wishbone]

When it was on Lesnar it was definitely gaining credibility again. Like I said, I'd rather it be on a part-time spectacle at this point rather than it being what it is now. Putting it on far lesser guys with no credibility and crossing their fingers is definitely counter-productive.

Plus, if there's ever a time to use the title to just give a guy like Sting a reign it would be now when he can actually bring up the prestige as opposed to taking it from someone like Cena or Lesnar.

Problem is look what happened the second the belt was off Lesnar. Sure it seemed like a big deal when he had it, but no one could have ever lived up to the hype when they beat him for it unless they themselves were a mega star like he is.

Of course this all comes back to the fact that WWE doesn't know how to book properly anymore. If they were to keep the belt on a guy like Lesnar for a couple years maybe, or bring in a couple of big names to feud with him over those few years they could then have everyone else fighting for the secondary titles. All of this would however require WWE to actually put effort into those smaller feuds and actually write compelling storylines.

[Nicky Fives]

Undertaker/Sting with the WWE Title on the line at Mania in Dallas is intriguing to me....would have been 10 times better 10 years ago, but beggars cannot be choosers....

[Wishbone]

Nothing will ever make the WWE title prestigious to any of you ever again because you're not 10-year-old kids any more. Same as the Intercontinental and the United States titles. You should all stop banging on about it's prestige and "elevating guys" because at the end of the day, wrestling will never be the same again as it was for us all in our youths.

That's a cop-out. As an adult I enjoy the hell out of many cartoons, shows, etc that are predominantly focused toward children. Shows like Steven Universe, and movies like 99% of the stuff Pixar makes all manage to be just as entertaining to millions of adults as they are to children. WWE's product is bad, and their titles mean nothing because they don't put any real effort into it.

Children can be entertained with crap, just like the majority of adults can. But just because you can survive on crap doesn't mean you should have to. WWE is perfectly capable of making quality entertainment that all ages could enjoy. They just choose not to, period.

[Rammsteinmad]

I'm not talking about the quality of the product, I'm talking about what internet fans consider the "prestige" of the titles.

I guarantee, every single title in the WWE from this day forward will always be spoken about in the context of comparing it to it's "former glories", or how it can "regain it's prestige" or some other nonsense. There will never, ever be a day when internet fans will be happy and say how prestigious any specific title is.

Not anymore.

[Rammsteinmad]

Also, in regards to comparing it to a kids show, you need to consider how your mindset has changed since your youth.

When you were ten, you'd watch a cartoon and you knew it was a cartoon, nothing more. You'd watch wrestling and it was super cool seeing these other-the-top characters beating each other up, winning championships etc.

Now, when you watch a cartoon, you know it's a kids cartoon and you enjoy it for what it is. When you watch wrestling, as a grown-up, with a better idea of the inner-workings of the business and with the ins-and-outs of wrestling so exposed today, you don't watch it with the same mindset.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Didn't recall the phrase "R.K.O., FROM OUT OF NOWHERE!" going so far back, but was watching DVD of Backlash '08 with Orton (c) v. Triple H v. Cena v. JBL in an elimination fatal-4-way for the WWE Championship...J.R. made the call of it...seems crazy that's been (probably on-and-off) used for at least around 7 1/2 years.

[Lock Jaw]

http://i.imgur.com/QBId9Nz.png

[Blonde Moment]

I see Sting winning due to botched interference by HHH leading to HHH declaring himself number 1 contender and Rollins going after him for the spot. Meanwhile Sting can deal with Sheamus trying to cashing his briefcase with Cena sticking his nose in or he can be involved in the HHH/Rollins feud by egging Rollins on. In any event I see Stings role in the Title pretty much the same as one of Jerichos championship early runs, booked ok but not as the main event.

[Damian Rey]

First time i remember "RKO outta nowhere" was against Benoit at the finish of Summer Slam 04.

[Wishbone]

I'm not talking about the quality of the product, I'm talking about what internet fans consider the "prestige" of the titles.

I guarantee, every single title in the WWE from this day forward will always be spoken about in the context of comparing it to it's "former glories", or how it can "regain it's prestige" or some other nonsense. There will never, ever be a day when internet fans will be happy and say how prestigious any specific title is.

Not anymore.

Maybe the average internet fan would/does feel that way, but I certainly don't. There have been times when I felt like the title and the matches for it actually meant a lot, even as an adult. It all just came down to the story behind it and whether I thought said story was good. Oh, and the players involved of course.

For example I really felt the title held a lot of prestige throughout all of Lesnar's run with it. I also felt the same way when CM Punk had it because you had guys like the Rock even clamoring to beat him for it. It all just came down to the fact that the belt really felt like something major stars wanted. I think this deal with Sting is pretty great for that too. This is a guy that was the franchise player of WCW yet even he is interested in winning the belt. I'm not necessarily happy with him winning it (not angry either), but him wanting to fight for it at all is huge IMO since for years legends would just pop in and not even bother with the belt. Everyone should be ecstatic to get a shot at the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, even legends that are supposedly "above it". By making anyone above the title you sorta cheapen it.

Also, in regards to comparing it to a kids show, you need to consider how your mindset has changed since your youth.

When you were ten, you'd watch a cartoon and you knew it was a cartoon, nothing more. You'd watch wrestling and it was super cool seeing these other-the-top characters beating each other up, winning championships etc.

Now, when you watch a cartoon, you know it's a kids cartoon and you enjoy it for what it is. When you watch wrestling, as a grown-up, with a better idea of the inner-workings of the business and with the ins-and-outs of wrestling so exposed today, you don't watch it with the same mindset.

Personally I still watch wrestling with a very similar midset to that I had as a kid. Sure, my taste has changed as far as who I think is cooler, but that's happened with cartoons too. However, I still scream at my tv while watching RAW. I still make condescending and snarky remarks to their points such as if HHH were to talk about being the man and not need others to Rollins I'd probably say something along the lines of "Because you totally didn't need Flair, Orton, and Bats did ya, Hunter?".

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird, but for me I've always still had the ability to disconnect from reality while watching tv. I know it's not real and all that jazz, but for those three hours RAW is on it doesn't matter. Meh, guess it all has to do with being a child at heart. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I always figured that if grown men and women could still enjoy wrestling they must be similarly young at heart. Maybe I'm wrong. :-\

[#1-norm-fan]

I was gonna mention Lesnar's reign as making the title bring a "big fight feel" with it. There are examples where the title's prestige is being raised even if they end up going in reverse. So the idea that titles can't have prestige because we're adults is kinda BS. I was not a 10 year old kid and was well aware wrestling was "fake" during the attitude era and that didn't stop title matches from being incredibly meaningful within the story because they meant something. Same deal when Lesnar had it but to a lesser degree because they'd spent so long diminishing it that one man, no matter how credible, could only do so much.

[Emperor Smeat]

Dirtsheets sponsored by Evil Emma:
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According to PWInsider.com, the next Legend’s statue set to be unveiled by WWE at WrestleMania 32 was supposed to be Hulk Hogan. The Hogan statue would have joined the likes of Andre the Giant and Ultimate Warrior at WWE Headquarter, but those plans have been scrapped in light of Hogan’s recent controversy.

Ric Flair noted on the latest installment of his WOOOOOO! Nation podcast that prior to WCW closing down, Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan struck a deal with the company that allowed the two to collect 50% of sales of any nWo merchandise, and that same deal carried over to WWE.

Flair would go on to mention that after Hulk Hogan's racial comments surfaced online, WWE decided to pull all nWo related merchandise off shelves and WWEShop.com. Once the word got out, Nash went crazy because he owned 35% of sales (Hall owned a percentage but Nash bought out his share).

Nash apparently then flew up to Stamford and an agreement was put in place to put the nWo merchandise back in stock.

Paige answered some questions during a Wizard World Comic Con San Jose Q&A over Labor Day weekend. Check out some highlights:

* On whether Nikki Bella’s Divas Title record was shot at AJ Lee:

“Oh, I don’t think so. Don’t get me involved in this! I don’t need that heat, brother. I don’t know. I have no idea. I don’t get involved in that crap.

* On whether she was naked under her towel on Raw when the Bella Twins stole her clothes:

That was legit live, guys. I had to run through the hallways in just a towel. I never thought I would be on RAW in just a towel, it had to go live, so Vince was like, ‘if she drops the towel everyone on the set is fired’ and I was like, ‘oh, it’s so much pressure.

WWE Studios is moving forward with another animated movie that would see WWE characters interact with The Jetsons.

We noted earlier this year that Warner Bros. was working on a script for the straight-to-DVD release. This comes after successful animated movie with Scooby Doo and The Flintstones. A second Scooby – WWE movie is currently being produced as well as a series of short films that will feature WWE characters in the ring with various Hanna-Barbera characters.

Konnan and former WWE creative writer Court Bauer revealed on MLW Radio on Wednesday that WWE officials are interested in bringing back Carlito, who was fired five years ago.

Wrestling Observer Newsletter editor Dave Meltzer reported in February that Triple H was lobbying for a top Hispanic star in WWE since he feels the company is in need of one. There are currently five male Hispanic wrestlers on the main roster (The Lucha Dragons, Los Matadores and El Torito) and amazingly, none training at the WWE Performance Center. Ideally, WWE wants someone with “the look,” can work well in the ring, is bilingual and at least 6 feet tall. The former United States Champion and Intercontinental Champion, who is now 36-years-old, pretty much fits the bill. Carlito is around 5 foot 10, but was never portrayed as a “small” wrestler.

WWE released Carlito on May 21, 2010, “due to his first violation of the WWE Wellness Program and his subsequent refusal to attend a rehabilitation facility,” per the company’s official website. In a subsequent interview, Carlito revealed that he wanted to leave the company for a long time ...

Since his departure from the company, Carlito had been competing in Puerto Rico, where his father holds World Wrestling Council (WWC) events.

With none of the current wrestlers being presented as top stars, Alberto Del Rio on the outs with WWE following a bitter departure last year, Vince McMahon cold on bringing back a 40-year-old Rey Mysterio, and no one training at the WWE Performance Center, Carlito looks to be the company’s best option for a top Hispanic star


This Monday, the WWE Network will premiere a new interview series titled "Legends with JBL" with the former WWE champion interviewing different personalities from the business. The subject of the first episode will be former WCW Vice President Eric Bischoff, who will discuss World Championshp Wrestling's rise and fall over the course of the 1990s' Monday Night War between WCW and the then-WWF.

The trailer for the WWE Network show Table For 3 shows that Dean Ambrose, Kevin Owens, and Cesaro will be appearing on an upcoming episode. Molly Holly, Madusa and Ivory are set for a Divas themed episode, while DDP, Sting and Vader will be in a WCW version.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don’t need that heat, brother.

Oof. NUCLEAR HEAT for Paige coming.

[Fignuts]

Does Carlito even want to come back?

[#1-norm-fan]

I hope so. Fucking loved Carlito.

[Frank Drebin]

Awwwww @ awkward teenage Emma getting a pic with Trish. Love Emma. Want to take her out for a vegimite sandwhich.

[Mercenary]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11822313_902130903170020_4381748368599698682_n.jpg?oh=1539aab56beb5a62a09e79d23816f0b3&oe=56643B2C

[Jari]

There is not a chance in hell of Sting walking out of Night of Champions with the WWE Title.

I can realistically see Cena beating Rollins for the US title, then Rollins beating Sting. Even if Sting does win the title, then Sheamus will cash in Money in the Bank afterwards (which would be a disastrous decision for business) but either way, Sting will not be the WWE champion the next night on Raw.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I would be all for a Carlito return if he was interested in a comeback.</font>

[The CyNick]

Think I'd rather see Sting as champion for a month than Rollins keep it. Since TNA doesn't exist in the "WWE universe", he's at least got some credibility as a huge star who would bring the prestige of the title up for a bit by holding it.

Honestly, I think I'd rather see Brock holding it while making his rare appearances still than have it on Seth Rollins as he jobs left and right and makes it look like a glorified title for losers. It should always be on someone ridiculously over until they're able to get someone else to that level. This "throw your world championship on a guy and hope to maybe get them over to that level later" thing is just bad for business all around and makes the title itself not draw for shit.

He's older than Vince when Vince won the title. How is that bringing prestige to the title? WWE has been very smart with their long term booking, I would be shocked if they did all this build up of Rollins only to have him lose to a guy that is old and past his prime. Especially if the plan would be just to put the belt back on Rollins. If they really wanted to give Sting a moment, have Seth get royally screwed. Cena runs in, and causes the pinfall, and then the next night on RAW Sheamus cashes in MITB on Sting. But even that is convoluted.

Another option if they want to get another month out of Sting, is have Rollins retain via DQ and then that justifies the HIAC rematch. In fact, if they did it where Rollins-Sting goes on before Rollins-Cena (say they flip a coin backstage to determine the order of the matches), then you can have Rollins retain via DQ, Cena beats Rollins for the US title with Sting's help. That sets up HIAC where you have Rollins go over Sting clean. That also sets up Survivor Series nicely where you can have a Rollins-Cena rematch for the WWE title.

[The CyNick]

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that WWE has pretty much proven they're incapable of ever getting someone even remotely close to that level without throwing the title on them. It's not right, but honestly the title really is just a prop these days. It should be the prize for guys that got to the level of mega star, but it's not, and throwing it on Sting or any other legend really isn't going to change that unfortunately. To build the title back up to being meaningful would probably take years at this point.

Thats such BS.

The title is VERY strong right now.

Cena had it, and got battered by Lesnar. Lesnar was THE strongest WWE champion since probably Hogan in the 80s, maybe even going back to the Bruno days (although I wasnt around for those so cant really comment). And Rollins won the title in a way a villain should, and has retained it like a villain should.

Playing hot potato with the belt championship, especially putting it on a senior citizen, only serves to devalue it. But hey, I know, we're supposed to bash the WWE booking on the internet. So my bad.

[The CyNick]

Undertaker/Sting with the WWE Title on the line at Mania in Dallas is intriguing to me....would have been 10 times better 10 years ago, but beggars cannot be choosers....

Wow...

[The CyNick]

CyNick is apparently a big fan of missing the point, telling other people what they want and failing to recognize the flaws in his own work. It's not really surprising he has this stance on current WWE.

You mean my stance that WWE does a great job because they are far and away the market leader in their industry and continue to grow and revolutionize the industry. Man, am I a dope!

You're right though, we should let Jim Cornette chime in on the flaws of the WWE business model.

[The CyNick]

Lol, ridiculous argument. I knew what I was watching was no compelling so I stopped. I have checked in again to see if it has changed because I very badly want it too, but it hasn't.

Terrible analogy and rather bizarre tbh.

Okay, you're right. Its more like you pick up a book that you enjoyed for a while, then stopped enjoying, then skipped a whole bunch of pages, read 5 pages and went "I dont like it" and put it back down.

Its fine to do that, just doesnt mean you can have an opinion on current storylines because you are not following close enough. My guess is you are lying and you watch every week like the rest of us, and dont admit it. Its cool though, I still like you.

[The CyNick]

That's a cop-out. As an adult I enjoy the hell out of many cartoons, shows, etc that are predominantly focused toward children. Shows like Steven Universe, and movies like 99% of the stuff Pixar makes all manage to be just as entertaining to millions of adults as they are to children. WWE's product is bad, and their titles mean nothing because they don't put any real effort into it.

Children can be entertained with crap, just like the majority of adults can. But just because you can survive on crap doesn't mean you should have to. WWE is perfectly capable of making quality entertainment that all ages could enjoy. They just choose not to, period.

Their business continues to grow, so obviously they are appealing to the right people. You're opinion is valid, its just kinda irrelevant.

[The CyNick]

Also, in regards to comparing it to a kids show, you need to consider how your mindset has changed since your youth.

When you were ten, you'd watch a cartoon and you knew it was a cartoon, nothing more. You'd watch wrestling and it was super cool seeing these other-the-top characters beating each other up, winning championships etc.

Now, when you watch a cartoon, you know it's a kids cartoon and you enjoy it for what it is. When you watch wrestling, as a grown-up, with a better idea of the inner-workings of the business and with the ins-and-outs of wrestling so exposed today, you don't watch it with the same mindset.

Do you watch Breaking Bad with an idea of the inner politics between the actors and the writers? Why would you possibly care what goes on behind closed doors?

If you stayed off the dirt sheets you would enjoy the product much more. Trust me.

[The CyNick]

I was gonna mention Lesnar's reign as making the title bring a "big fight feel" with it. There are examples where the title's prestige is being raised even if they end up going in reverse. So the idea that titles can't have prestige because we're adults is kinda BS. I was not a 10 year old kid and was well aware wrestling was "fake" during the attitude era and that didn't stop title matches from being incredibly meaningful within the story because they meant something. Same deal when Lesnar had it but to a lesser degree because they'd spent so long diminishing it that one man, no matter how credible, could only do so much.

You seem to have a problem with heel champions. Makes sense since you are #1 wwf fan. That was a babyface territory that you grew up with. So you're rejecting the idea of a long heel run because its foreign.

IMO you gotta let the angle play out. WWE has been good about slowing their long term angles down. You can see an arch develop with the characters, and they actually build to something. May not always be exactly what you personally want to see, but its better than changing direction every 6 weeks.

[The CyNick]

There is not a chance in hell of Sting walking out of Night of Champions with the WWE Title.

I can realistically see Cena beating Rollins for the US title, then Rollins beating Sting. Even if Sting does win the title, then Sheamus will cash in Money in the Bank afterwards (which would be a disastrous decision for business) but either way, Sting will not be the WWE champion the next night on Raw.

Depending where they are ultimately going with Rollins, I think you have to wait for the cash in until they turn from Rollins back dooring his way to wins, to Rollins winning clean and setting the stage for the eventual babyface turn. They can start that with Sting. It can be this month or next, but at some point Rollins should beat Sting clean. Then depending where they go with Cena, I would want to see Rollins beat him clean as well. After that, then you can have Sheamus cash in. HHH can blame Rollins for losing, and start to side with Sheamus as the new "face of the WWE" (which would be funny because it will play off the you look stupid chants), and that leads to the rift between Rollins and HHH. Payoff at Mania with Rollins vs HHH.

[The CyNick]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11822313_902130903170020_4381748368599698682_n.jpg?oh=1539aab56beb5a62a09e79d23816f0b3&oe=56643B2C

Gentlemen, to evil!

[Jari]

Depending where they are ultimately going with Rollins, I think you have to wait for the cash in until they turn from Rollins back dooring his way to wins, to Rollins winning clean and setting the stage for the eventual babyface turn. They can start that with Sting. It can be this month or next, but at some point Rollins should beat Sting clean. Then depending where they go with Cena, I would want to see Rollins beat him clean as well. After that, then you can have Sheamus cash in. HHH can blame Rollins for losing, and start to side with Sheamus as the new "face of the WWE" (which would be funny because it will play off the you look stupid chants), and that leads to the rift between Rollins and HHH. Payoff at Mania with Rollins vs HHH.

Is there any reason to believe that Sting is sticking around after Night of Champions?

[DAMN iNATOR]

First time i remember "RKO outta nowhere" was against Benoit at the finish of Summer Slam 04.

As in that actually being called by commentary?

First RKO he ever did was on Kane, I believe, during the infamous Kane/Triple H "World Heavyweight Championship vs. Mask" match on RAW c. Summer '03, causing HHH to pin Kane and thus forcing Kane to unmask.

[Damian Rey]

Yes, as in JR actually making the call.

And lol at "He's older than Vince than when Vince wonthe title". Clearly Vince and Sting are comparable.

[Rammsteinmad]

Do you watch Breaking Bad with an idea of the inner politics between the actors and the writers? Why would you possibly care what goes on behind closed doors?

If you stayed off the dirt sheets you would enjoy the product much more. Trust me.

Someone clearly didn't read both of my posts properly. :roll:

[Jari]

So 2k have announced that Sasha, Charlotte, Becky and Bayley WILL NOT be included in 2k16, nor will they be included as DLC. No real mention of why not, other than a hint at external figures being involved.

I have nothing to base this on but I blame Cena

[Maluco]

Okay, you're right. Its more like you pick up a book that you enjoyed for a while, then stopped enjoying, then skipped a whole bunch of pages, read 5 pages and went "I dont like it" and put it back down.

Its fine to do that, just doesnt mean you can have an opinion on current storylines because you are not following close enough. My guess is you are lying and you watch every week like the rest of us, and dont admit it. Its cool though, I still like you.

Lol, I can promise you I don't, maybe the occasional look or segment but most weeks it is less than an hour and about half the weeks it is nothing at all. It's because of consistent behaviour over several years, so have to reject your book theory once again.

Don't miss the specials of PPVs usually though because the match quality is always excellent. I don't hate WWE, nor am I being critical because its cool. I, personally, just don't think Raw is very enjoyable because I personally don't find the repetitive nature or stories very interesting.

Love the PPVs though, and I still like you too lol

[The CyNick]

Is there any reason to believe that Sting is sticking around after Night of Champions?

No not really. I don't know the details of his deal. Just saying if he is they could easily get another match out of him.

[The CyNick]

Yes, as in JR actually making the call.

And lol at "He's older than Vince than when Vince wonthe title". Clearly Vince and Sting are comparable.

Age wise, ya they are.

[Damian Rey]

Which is superfluous in the context of the conversation. You asked how Sting being older brings prestige to a title Vince won at a younger age, which is irrelevant. One is a wrestler, who's career spanned decades, won multiple world titles and is billed as a legend. The other is an announcer turned evil owner who won on a fluke. Their age has nothing to do with any perceived prestige they may or may not bring to a title.

[Shadrick]

Age wise, ya they are.

Their characters roles in the company are entirely different as well as the circumstances surrounding them.

[Droford]

It just occurred to me that they should have booked Sting/Cena/Rollins like they did Benoit/Jericho/Angle at WM 16 when Angle was the EuroContinental Champion, first fall for the IC title second fir the European.

[Damian Rey]

That's actually a stellar idea. I'd be open to having Rollins retain tomorrow night and then go into next month's ppv in a triple threat with both belts on the line.

Though I'm doubtful he will, if Sting did win tomorrow night but Rollins holds onto the US title, you could book Cena/Rollins/Sting with the US belt on the line in the first fall and the World title in the second.

[The CyNick]

Their characters roles in the company are entirely different as well as the circumstances surrounding them.

No doubt. Sting would be a bigger joke as champion than Vince was given their roles

[The CyNick]

Which is superfluous in the context of the conversation. You asked how Sting being older brings prestige to a title Vince won at a younger age, which is irrelevant. One is a wrestler, who's career spanned decades, won multiple world titles and is billed as a legend. The other is an announcer turned evil owner who won on a fluke. Their age has nothing to do with any perceived prestige they may or may not bring to a title.

Clearly you don't understand the business

[Damian Rey]

Says the guy comparing Vince McMahon with Sting.

[Evil Vito]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2_jON7PvLQ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<font color=goldenrod>This beatdown makes me laugh just because of Brian Adams.

Adams: "Curt's like a brother to us!"
Nash: "It's just business!"
*Adams immediately beats the shit out of Curt*</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/d6f53c9fc1715b93800d54acd18512f7/tumblr_nat7ltYVnp1sbzhteo7_400.gif

[#1-norm-fan]

I was gonna mention Lesnar's reign as making the title bring a "big fight feel" with it.

You seem to have a problem with heel champions.

...

[Shadrick]

No doubt. Sting would be a bigger joke as champion than Vince was given their roles

I'm inclined to agree with this. It has nothing to do with their ages though, which was my point.

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/onMSfF6w7k8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Droford]

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140912204820/prowrestling/images/3/3c/Rosebuds1.jpg

Rosebuds are doing better than Adam Rose

[Kris P Lettus]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UdDFs5rlZzE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Emperor Smeat]

At the San Jose, CA Wizard World Comic Con, Paige participated in a Q&A session with fans. During the event, Paige talked about picking her battles with creative, what she would do if she was in charge of the Divas Revolution, and who she would want as a tag team partner.

Paige claimed that she picks her battles with creative and said it can be frustrating. Paige gave the examples of being put in a 5-on-1 situation at Survivor Series and the Submission Sorority name as times when she spoke up against creative and they did not listen to her ...

Paige said she also told creative that the Submission Sorority name was a bad idea.

"I said to a couple of the writers, I was like, 'dude, Submission Sorority? Don't let children Google that. So we have to, like, change it.' And they were like, 'oh, we'll speak with Vince [McMahon] at some point.' And, I'm like, 'okay'. And then I see we get called the Submission Sorority on RAW the next day, there are millions of people watching, and then suddenly people are like, 'oh great, you're in a porn group'."
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/0919/600800/paige-talks-frustrations-with-wwe-creative-and-what-shed-change/

Seems like Paige is starting to have the same problems Katlyn, AJ, and other women wrestles had when it came with Creative (and management).

[GD]

lol Ryback

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2015/OxpRq9.gif

[Jari]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/0919/600800/paige-talks-frustrations-with-wwe-creative-and-what-shed-change/

Seems like Paige is starting to have the same problems Katlyn, AJ, and other women wrestles had when it came with Creative (and management).

Another example of the people at the top of the company being completely out of touch. I would highly recommend listening to Jericho's podcast with the New Day, which really highlights what CM Punk said about Vince having no clue what he's doing.

[Jari]

The New Day podcast also makes me worry that someone like Vince or Kevin Dunn is going to squash their momentum. You know because of the whole going out and making something for themselves.

[Mercenary]

The New Day podcast also makes me worry that someone like Vince or Kevin Dunn is going to squash their momentum. You know because of the whole going out and making something for themselves.

they best leave New day the hell alone

[XL]

New Day is mere weeks away from being mishandled.

Unless it was "the plan from the beginning" to send them out there as faces with such a bad gimmick that the fans would turn them heel. They'd then be such entertaining heels that the crowd get behind them and "Hey presto!", New Day are faces just like Vince planned.

It's some Inception-level stuff.

[The CyNick]

Says the guy comparing Vince McMahon with Sting.

You did see the match when Vince "won" the title right?

If Sting wins in that same manner, i'm perfectly fine with it.

Its one thing to just look up wikipedia to get some facts to back up your arguement, but you make a better case when you understand the context behind what happened. Maybe after a couple rounds of discussing the business with me you will become more educated. Gonna take some time though clearly.

[Damian Rey]

Don't use facts for arguments guys. You heard it here. You must know the business and that clearly means a pro wrestler who's been active since the 80s and an announcer turned evil owner are comparable. I've seen the light.

[Emperor Smeat]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/fe55c15939920f4f7bd4747bcd6497b1/tumblr_nn0y97VqoZ1tjeupqo2_250.gif

[Damian Rey]

New Day needs to do this.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not talking about the quality of the product, I'm talking about what internet fans consider the "prestige" of the titles.

I guarantee, every single title in the WWE from this day forward will always be spoken about in the context of comparing it to it's "former glories", or how it can "regain it's prestige" or some other nonsense. There will never, ever be a day when internet fans will be happy and say how prestigious any specific title is.

Not anymore.

I disagree, just because I recently gave a crap about the US Title.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Okay, you're right. Its more like you pick up a book that you enjoyed for a while, then stopped enjoying, then skipped a whole bunch of pages, read 5 pages and went "I dont like it" and put it back down.

Its fine to do that, just doesnt mean you can have an opinion on current storylines because you are not following close enough. My guess is you are lying and you watch every week like the rest of us, and dont admit it. Its cool though, I still like you.

It's sort of the WWE's job to make people care about their product though. That Maluco doesn't want to watch is sort of the point, bro...

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's all I'm going to say to CyNick at this point, because he's just being ridiculous for the sake of it, I think. Not worth it's own thread either.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I keep flipping on what I think the WWE will do with the belts at Night of Champions. I'm thinking they might have Sting help Cena win the US Title to get him some pops (because they think Sting needs to be shined up for his spot) and then Rollins beats Sting, but it's really tricky to call. Really don't care as much as I would if this were Rollins, WCW fan during the late 90's, inspired by Sting, but realized that guys like Sting that have a problem with authority lack power and kilelr instinct vs. Sting, vigilante and justice-bringer, all-consumed with loosening Rollins' corrupt grasp on the WWE Title. You know, as opposed to two guys who care more about statues or making Triple H smile.

Does anyone else feel weird when they talk about Sting going after the "one title that eluded him" like I do? If he wanted the WWE Title so badly, why didn't he come to WWE? Seems like he should be trying to win the belt to prove that he could have been the World Heavyweight Champion anywhere at any point in time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Paige comes off as really bratty in that interview about creative.

[Rammsteinmad]

I disagree, just because I recently gave a crap about the US Title.

I too, especially when Cena was doing his open challenge. But caring about the title recently because of the quality of the matches, won't change the fact that people will always have this mentality of "restoring it to it's former glory".

None of the titles have ever lost any of their prestige in my opinion.

[The CyNick]

It's sort of the WWE's job to make people care about their product though. That Maluco doesn't want to watch is sort of the point, bro...

Their business keeps getting bigger though. So just because one person leaves, doesnt mean its in the tank.

Especially when that someone watches every month

[The CyNick]

That's all I'm going to say to CyNick at this point, because he's just being ridiculous for the sake of it, I think. Not worth it's own thread either.

how am I being ridiculous? Differences of opinion are good for a place like this, no?

Besides, you guys begged me to come back. Not the other way around.

[Lock Jaw]

Watched last weeks NXT, Dana Brooke is really coming along. Think she'll be the next breakout star after Bailey.

Just need to learn to tone down the constant posing.... She was getting better at it, but then the last time she had a match she did the pose like seven times in a row during her entrance....

[VSG]

Yeah all those poses get really old quickly, and on the main roster only like 1% of the live audience will even see it.

[Tom Guycott]

Just saw a commercial on TV for "The Mark Madden Show", and I was like WTF... then I realized that I do live/work close enough to Pittsburgh for that to be an actual thing without it being national in any way.

[Emperor Smeat]

https://40.media.tumblr.com/0668c5de14ef964edcde0f9b8da35043/tumblr_nv05h4n9Iz1soh95yo1_540.jpg

[Tom Guycott]

Razor's Angels

[parkmania]

https://40.media.tumblr.com/0668c5de14ef964edcde0f9b8da35043/tumblr_nv05h4n9Iz1soh95yo1_540.jpg

Razor's Angels

Seeing this pairing on WWE tv would be...


TOO SWEEEEEEET!

[XL]

WTF is going on with this place?

[owenbrown]

trust me, XL, you don't want to know...

[XL]

Just looked like the grown ups had gone out for a minute and the kids were writing on the walls in crayon. The humanity of it all.

[owenbrown]

That seems to happen a lot around here lately...

[Droford]

Razor's Angels

Should Be Rikishi cause you know..hes..you know..a bad man

T6cERISqOHA

[Jari]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1Tb77dNBgjg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Can we take this moment to enjoy Ric Flair beating up Mick Foley's book?

[DaveWadding]

It's fucking astonishing to me that some of the most iconic Attitude Era moments happened in consecutive weeks. Austin rides Zamboni into arena/Kane Undertaker break Vince's leg, then the next week Vince is in the hospital, which means Socko/Dr. Austin, and the week after that, Vince comes back and Austin pours cement into the Corvette. Then there's the PPV and the night afterwards is BANG 3:16.

Just bananas.

[#1-norm-fan]

Shit was crazy.

[Tammy]

trust me, XL, you don't want to know...

Hi I'm Tammy. I'm single and ready to mingle. Just give me a call sometime at 914-337-1500.

[Emperor Smeat]

http://i.imgur.com/GUjZshR.gif

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One month ago, I asked for a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WomensPipebomb?src=hash">#WomensPipebomb</a>. Last night on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> we got one! Thank you <a href="https://twitter.com/RealPaigeWWE">@RealPaigeWWE</a>. <a href="http://t.co/25QrtHdCMu">pic.twitter.com/25QrtHdCMu</a></p>&mdash; Mick Foley (@RealMickFoley) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMickFoley/status/646332305527717888">September 22, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Lock Jaw]

Was not on the level of any of AJ Lee's promos, but was alright....

[Mr. Nerfect]

how am I being ridiculous? Differences of opinion are good for a place like this, no?

Besides, you guys begged me to come back. Not the other way around.

A lack of logic and completely asinine statements ignoring reality are what makes this ridiculous. I didn't beg you back; although I was glad when you returned. Have your fun, but this shit became stupid quite a few posts back.

[The CyNick]

A lack of logic and completely asinine statements ignoring reality are what makes this ridiculous. I didn't beg you back; although I was glad when you returned. Have your fun, but this shit became stupid quite a few posts back.

I challenge you to show me something I said that lacks logic. You're just defensive because I dont agree with everything you're saying and you have a tough time defending your position on a subject.

Its good to have your opinions, and be passionate about them. But if you cant back your points with any facts or reason, and resort to just calling someone's opinions asinine it shows a lack of ability to debate a point.

[The CyNick]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One month ago, I asked for a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WomensPipebomb?src=hash">#WomensPipebomb</a>. Last night on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> we got one! Thank you <a href="https://twitter.com/RealPaigeWWE">@RealPaigeWWE</a>. <a href="http://t.co/25QrtHdCMu">pic.twitter.com/25QrtHdCMu</a></p>&mdash; Mick Foley (@RealMickFoley) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMickFoley/status/646332305527717888">September 22, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Promo could have been great, but was so poorly executed.

Another one of these examples where fans want the talent to be great, but the talent isnt great.

[The CyNick]

It's fucking astonishing to me that some of the most iconic Attitude Era moments happened in consecutive weeks. Austin rides Zamboni into arena/Kane Undertaker break Vince's leg, then the next week Vince is in the hospital, which means Socko/Dr. Austin, and the week after that, Vince comes back and Austin pours cement into the Corvette. Then there's the PPV and the night afterwards is BANG 3:16.

Just bananas.

Was Kaientai and Mae Young on consecutive weeks?

[#1-norm-fan]

I challenge you to show me something I said that lacks logic. You're just defensive because I dont agree with everything you're saying and you have a tough time defending your position on a subject.

Its good to have your opinions, and be passionate about them. But if you cant back your points with any facts or reason, and resort to just calling someone's opinions asinine it shows a lack of ability to debate a point.

I quoted a pretty clearly illogical point back in post #19457 that you ignored. Probably stuff like that Noid is kinda exasperated with. Now it's come down to "No, YOU don't have facts or reason! YOU'RE having a tough time defending your subject!" and there's not much more point to even try.

[Mr. Nerfect]

#fan gets it. At least he can tell me why Alex Riley sucks without an argument from authority, using masked men or resorting to ad hominem projections. I'm starting to sound like fucking Kane Knight...

[#1-norm-fan]

Strawman

[Lock Jaw]

I thought I told you guys to spin-off arguing with The CyNick into a new thread....

[#1-norm-fan]

TPWW defying Lock Jaw's orders. It's a regular mutiny.

[Emperor Smeat]

Dirtsheets sponsored by Corporate Kane's approval:
https://31.media.tumblr.com/3edac88c48676a5b345f0230178cebf0/tumblr_nv2z3nJqQh1sbzhteo1_400.gif

If WWE was hoping the buzz from the Night of Champions PPV was going to help them in the recent audience drain vs. Monday Night Football, they had their faith misplaced. The 9/21 edition of Raw, coming off the PPV, garnered just 3,349,000 viewers which is not only down from last week's 3,397,000 viewers, but is the lowest audience for the series (beyond a Christmas holiday episode) since it expanded to a three hour version in July 2012.

The audience dropped over the course of the three hours, showing that WWE's audience was not hooked by John Cena vs. Seth Rollins as the main event, nor the return of Kane to television. The 8 PM hour brought in 3,420,000 viewers for the first hour, then dropped to 3,368,000 viewers before bottoming out in the final hour at just 3,260,000 viewers.

The third hour would be the lowest audience for the 10-11 PM hour of Raw since the series expanded to three hours. Unless there was an error in how the audience was calculated last night, WWE has a lot of hard decisions to make in strategizing how they rebound from the onslaught of Monday Night Football.

Monday Night Football, by the way, brought in 12,479,000 viewers opposite Raw, winning the night.
Outside of maybe the NoC go-home show, past several weeks have been breaking records for lowest ever in the 3 hour era. Down by 530,000 viewers compared to the same week last year.

As seen at Sunday’s Night of Champions event, a fan jumped the barricade and entered the ring and stood next to Roman Reigns moments before Chris Jericho came out as the mystery partner of Dean Ambrose and Reigns in their match against The Wyatt Family. WWE security quickly tackled him and took him out.

The following day, WWE issued a statement saying they will be prosecuting fans who get involved in WWE programming moving forward, while in the past they only got a lifetime ban from WWE events.

Bryan Alvarez mentioned on today’s installment of Wrestling Observer Live that the fan at Night of Champions is now serving ten days in jail for the incident.
Supposedly WWE has begun beefing up security starting with Smackdown this week. Fan report from the show had security yelling at people if they were standing too close to the railings or trying to move down the aisles.

While the company has indeed pursued prosecution in the past when it came to fans crossing a line or physically hopping the rail in the past, after the last several weeks of incidents (most recently last night at the WWE Night of Champions PPV), the word is that WWE intends to pursue the most stringent prosecution possible if and when another incident occurs. There will be no apologies afterwards from fans at this point, as sometimes has happened, just an immediate arrest followed by WWE's legal team pushing for prosecution and jail time for all offenders.

So, while someone might think they are going to get a momentary laugh or thrill out of getting involved in a WWE event, the reality is that because so many fans have "poked the bear" so to speak of late, anyone that attempts this going forward is looking at not just a lifetime ban from WWE events as well as the venue where the incident takes place, but being charged with criminal offenses That means that person is going to have to deal with the financial hardship of hiring a lawyer to defend them as well as dealing with all the stress of going to court as well as the potential of going to jail, being fined, etc ...

As I noted a few weeks ago on Elite audio, if I am WWE, I am giving Ronnie Lang and Atlas Security a call. Lang's team dealt with far more dangerous situations in the old days of ECW and always masterfully squashed the situations without harm to any wrestlers. While obviously WWE is a different company and publicly traded, there is obviously something breaking down when it comes to security (and I have no idea if that's in-house or security provided by the venues WWE run) and Lang might be a good outside eye for them to bring on as a consultant to help them fix whatever they might be doing wrong and improve upon what they are doing right.

Speaking of security, Dolph Ziggler noted on his Twitter that WWE Security professional Muriel Howell left the company this weekend. From the wrestlers I've spoken to since it was announced, to a person, she was described as having done an amazing job in her role of protecting talents and will be missed.

On the subject of the Superman Punch, Reigns stated that he started doing the move because no one else was doing it and it is just something that ended up working out well. According to Reigns, he did not develop the theatrics of punching the ground at first. Backstage, this setup for the Superman Punch is called ThunderCat.

"I didn't really develop the whole theatrics, the setup for it, when I ThunderCat down on the ground [in developmental]. That's what we call it, actually, so you all know. I don't know why we call it ThunderCat, but that's what we call it".

When asked whether the name, Superman Punch, would be better suited for John Cena, Reigns stated that he did not name the move himself.

"I'm not one of those nerds that names his moves. It was called a Spear before I did it, so I'm going to continue to call it a Spear. It was called a Superman Punch before I did it, so I call it a Superman Punch."

WrestlingDVDNetwork.com has exclusively learned that penciled into WWE’s 2016 Home Video schedule right now is a potential Eric Bischoff DVD and Blu-ray set – complete with a documentary portion on the former President of World Championship Wrestling.

The news comes during a special “Nitro Week” on the WWE Network which features more than 2 hours of Bischoff-themed programming and a countdown of Monday Nitro’s top 10 moments.

Going off a recent WWE DVD Survey issued by the company to select fans in order to gauge interest in future Home Video projects, we know that this Eric Bischoff DVD and a “Greatest Rivalries: Eric Bischoff vs. Vince McMahon” DVD have both been under consideration.

It appears that the Bischoff documentary is the more likely to be produced given today’s update, however as of now the title is still “pending talent involvement”, presumably by the man himself.

Remember when Rusev used to beat up on the likes of Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods, and Big E while he was coming up through WWE? Well, the four teamed up for a match against Dolph Ziggler and the Dudley Boyz on Raw last night and no one made any mention of it on commentary.

But don't worry, in the age of social media we can get the word straight from the source.

First, Kingston brought up the elephant in the room:

All that time we spent beefing, who would've thought we'd make such a great team?! New Day + @RusevBul = Supreme Dream Team! #AllisForgiven
— Kofi Kingston (@TrueKofi) September 22, 2015

Then, Woods actually told us what happened:

.@RusevBUL actually had us over for dinner to apologize for the way he used to treat us. Now we are friends. #6ManTag pic.twitter.com/bJPzWbSHI0
— Xavier Woods (@XavierWoodsPhD) September 22, 2015

Rusev expanded on it:

And to make fun of the @LanaWWE hahahahahaahaahaha. Just 4 man whole chickens and yogurt. Laughing at a woman https://t.co/as9xfPwnsQ
— Rusev (@RusevBUL) September 22, 2015

Big E got in on it:

"I suggested she clap...but she can't! Hehehehehe. Her wrist is as useful as a floppy disk!...Pass the baklava!" https://t.co/XxWHHErsfO
— Epsilon (@WWEBigE) September 22, 2015
Found the whole thing to be a bit funny. Rusev still making fun of Lana, New Day still being goofy, and them settling past differences over a meal of chicken and yogurt.

[Disturbed316]

http://i.imgur.com/EnxQkfb.gif

[Mr. Nerfect]

Strawman

Ah, the memories...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rusev is absolutely hilarious on Twitter. I heard of an instance where Lana was asking for ideas for shows to watch, so Rusev said "You should watch...BONES! hahahahahahhaha!"

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would like to see more of The New Day and Rusev together. Dolph Ziggler & Cesaro can join the Dudleys. There's a Survivor Series match for ya.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Strawman

I raise you a...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_CdLurC-_Ws/maxresdefault.jpg

[The CyNick]

I thought I told you guys to spin-off arguing with The CyNick into a new thread....

Are you in charge here? Just want to know who i need to suck up to.

[The CyNick]

#fan gets it. At least he can tell me why Alex Riley sucks without an argument from authority, using masked men or resorting to ad hominem projections. I'm starting to sound like fucking Kane Knight...

Is he still around?

[The CyNick]

...

I'm sorry it took so long to respond to this, I am extremely popular and have lots of posts to respond to.

Seems like there is a problem with some people on here about how a heel champion is to be booked as to not turn them face. It's a fine line to make them still be credible as a champion but still show cowardness to make them a heel. I think Rollins is fine right now, but I also think we're coming to a fork in the road.

[The CyNick]

I would like to see more of The New Day and Rusev together. Dolph Ziggler & Cesaro can join the Dudleys. There's a Survivor Series match for ya.

I wonder if Dudleys get heel reactions in the Garden vs New Day.

[The CyNick]

Strawman

Typical response to someone who can't cobble together a counter point.

I feel like Donald Trump up here. Everyone hates on me because I make sound arguments that people feel like they have to disagree with but aren't sure why.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is he still around?

I don't believe so. I don't know the story, but I think he may have even been run off here. It's a shame, because when he actually posted his thoughts, they were actually pretty good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm sorry it took so long to respond to this, I am extremely popular and have lots of posts to respond to.

Seems like there is a problem with some people on here about how a heel champion is to be booked as to not turn them face. It's a fine line to make them still be credible as a champion but still show cowardness to make them a heel. I think Rollins is fine right now, but I also think we're coming to a fork in the road.

You don't need to show cowardice as opposed to showing them having a dickish sense of arrogance and self-preservation. The problem with booking your heels like legitimate cowards is that it undercuts their entire existence as a pro-wrestler and no one believes in them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wonder if Dudleys get heel reactions in the Garden vs New Day.

I don't think so. The Dudleys have established themselves as having a strong association with New York. I imagine The New Day will have their supporters, but I think the crowd will be genuinely rabid.

I imagine ND cutting an on the way to the ring promo sans trombone about how it got stolen by your typical New Yorker earlier today or something too.

[Rammsteinmad]

I would love to see Spike Dudley come back, so we can see New Day vs. Dudleys in a six-man tables tag match.

[The CyNick]

I don't think so. The Dudleys have established themselves as having a strong association with New York. I imagine The New Day will have their supporters, but I think the crowd will be genuinely rabid.

I imagine ND cutting an on the way to the ring promo sans trombone about how it got stolen by your typical New Yorker earlier today or something too.

Yeah i hate those promos that force the fans to cheer in the opposite way they want. I feel like a true NYC crowd would see that the Dudleys are past their prime.

[The CyNick]

You don't need to show cowardice as opposed to showing them having a dickish sense of arrogance and self-preservation. The problem with booking your heels like legitimate cowards is that it undercuts their entire existence as a pro-wrestler and no one believes in them.

My answer to that is there are plenty of ways to skin a fish. Lots of diffrrent types of heels. Didn't Rollins beat Sting clean AFTER just finishing a match with Cena? Cena is the top babyface in the territory. Can't be any shame in losing to him. I'm assuming he beats Kane clean at HIAC. So he is getting his wins.

[Sepholio]

Seth Rollins has injured Brock, Cena, and Sting all in about 6 months. RAW having its worst ratings basically ever with him as the champion. People need to start facing facts. The man is a liability.

[Innovator]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPm9oDWWUAIoMyG.jpg

[Innovator]

Seth Rollins has injured Brock, Cena, and Sting all in about 6 months. RAW having its worst ratings basically ever with him as the champion. People need to start facing facts. The man is a liability.

a) Cena leaned into the knee

b) Sting is 56

c) Brock can't be injured

[The CyNick]

Seth Rollins has injured Brock, Cena, and Sting all in about 6 months. RAW having its worst ratings basically ever with him as the champion. People need to start facing facts. The man is a liability.

Maybe. My guess is there a lot of factors to ratings. The company is likely must concerned with network subs. They only get released quarterly. The house show business is more immediate and good indicator of the brand not so much Rollins himself.

You also have to invest time into guys to make them stars. It doesn't always happen overnight. It might be time to move on from Rollins, or it could be a waste of 6 months to move on, and he's on the brink of being a hot babyface coming out of a program with HHH.

[Tom Guycott]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One month ago, I asked for a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WomensPipebomb?src=hash">#WomensPipebomb</a>. Last night on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> we got one! Thank you <a href="https://twitter.com/RealPaigeWWE">@RealPaigeWWE</a>. <a href="http://t.co/25QrtHdCMu">pic.twitter.com/25QrtHdCMu</a></p>&mdash; Mick Foley (@RealMickFoley) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMickFoley/status/646332305527717888">September 22, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Promo could have been great, but was so poorly executed.

Another one of these examples where fans want the talent to be great, but the talent isnt great.

Let me dust off my patented "Late To The Party" RAW examination.

Firstly, Paige. The thing is, she isn't *that* poor of a promo. She has done better. Only problem I saw here was the lack of vitriol... she was essentially cutting a heel promo with a face delivery. It wasn't unlike AJ when she went full out Shawn Michaels (and Tamina was her Diesel) when that run started, she didn't seem like she believed her words. In a few weeks, she oozed about as much douchebag as her husband could. Yes, she should have knocked that promo out of the park, but let's not pretend she's horrible.

MEANWHILE, Big Show's promo is how she should have handled that. Top Man jokes and seesawing relevance aside, he came off like he really *believed* what he said about Brock.

New Day featuring Xavier Woods' trombone: I love the snowballing of the whole gimmick. Big E has refined his Southern Baptist Preacher voice to where it is over the top in a good way as opposed to sounding forced, Kofi making the clap-skip a constant thing, and then we have Consequences Creed himself doing a lot of emoting, talking crowd audible smack (which I am a fan of), and taking a seemingly random skill of playing a goddamn trombone into an entertaining embellishment. Especially the corner stomps/irish whip bit that seems to be now a regular thing.

One question: does Kane now work for The Law Offices of Park, Park, & Park? Maybe they'll finally find Abyss chilling with Malibu Kane.

Brown Strawman looks like what would happen if Earthquake were in more of a bodybuilding mold and wore WWI biplane attire to the ring.

Hey! Lillian put a "p" at the end of " CHAMPIONCHIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAA..... puh" tonight for the Cena/Rollins match.

I wonders omething about Rollins' legit. Between busting Cena's nose and giving Sting an ouchie, he seems like he gets a little hesitant at times with some of his moves and mannerisms. Almost like he's overcompensating making way less fluid movements than he is capable of. Like he is constantly second guessing himself.

[The CyNick]

My problem with Paige was she rushed everything and stepped all over Charlotte. I liked the idea of the promo, thought it was well scripted, just thought she fell on her face with the delivery.

I also felt like her look coming down the ramp gave away the angle. Which she may have been told to do, so don't know if that's her fault or creative.

[#1-norm-fan]

#fan gets it. At least he can tell me why Alex Riley sucks without an argument from authority, using masked men or resorting to ad hominem projections. I'm starting to sound like fucking Kane Knight...

Strawman

Typical response to someone who can't cobble together a counter point.

I feel like Donald Trump up here. Everyone hates on me because I make sound arguments that people feel like they have to disagree with but aren't sure why.

I FEEL like you're just fucking around at this point but I'm not positive...

[Wishbone]

So I just bought a crap load of WWE tees since they were having the 30% off sale... Really having buyers remorse now :-\

[Rammsteinmad]

Send them to me. It'll make you feel good about yourself.

[Asmo]

Yeah, i wouldn't mind some as well!

[Damian Rey]

Which shirts did you get?

[#1-norm-fan]

I feel like NWA should really try to rebuild their brand and, maybe not compete with WWE but become a viable second option. They've got the history that other companies suffer from when they try to claim prestige for their titles. Hell, WWE even has to acknowledge them and give them free promotion when talking about their own history a lot. I feel like there's some way where their territory system could actually work to build a national product even in this day and age. I'm just not sure how. Also, they'd probably have to ignore the last few decades completely...

[Simple Fan]

I feel like NWA should really try to rebuild their brand and, maybe not compete with WWE but become a viable second option. They've got the history that other companies suffer from when they try to claim prestige for their titles. Hell, WWE even has to acknowledge them and give them free promotion when talking about their own history a lot. I feel like there's some way where their territory system could actually work to build a national product even in this day and age. I'm just not sure how. Also, they'd probably have to ignore the last few decades completely...


Totally agree. Wish Dixie would sell TNA to the NWA and rebrand it Nonstop Wrestling Action and be their top promotion. They could use the rest as a huge developmental system. Their titles are still pretty prominent, they show up in NJPW and ROH every now and again but they need their own show to really showcase all their talent.

[Nicky Fives]

smart wrestling-related decisions and Dixie Carter seem to be allergic to each other.....

[Wishbone]

Which shirts did you get?

Grabbed the two new Undertaker ones, a Sheamus, the Dean Ambrose one with the DA symbol on the front, the black Dolph Ziggler one with pink lettering, the Bray Wyatt with the lamb, and a Bayley because fuck da police... I mean I saved like 60 bucks on the order but it was still like $150 for t-shirts hence the remorse after the fact lol.

[Damian Rey]

Christ that's a big haul. I've always wanted to walk into a buffet with a Ryback "HUNGRY" shirt.

[Wishbone]

smart wrestling-related decisions and Dixie Carter seem to be allergic to each other.....

Dixie Carter should be made to wear a championship belt with the word "dunce" written on it at all times until she gets her ass out of the business.

[Wishbone]

Christ that's a big haul. I've always wanted to walk into a buffet with a Ryback "HUNGRY" shirt.

Yeah, I just recently got a nice little gift of money so I was like "hmm, what should I buy?". Was gonna go with a few games, but I was like "nah, got Fallout 4 preordered and there's nothing else I want". Decided to check out WWE's shop and saw the sale and decided to buy a few. Ended up with a full cart and at the last second decided to just buy them all. Well, all but 2 since I would have gone over my limit. Surprisingly enough a Ryback tee was one of the ones I threw back. XD

[Damian Rey]

There was a Lesnar shirt or two I wanted a while back. Have the one he originally wore upon his return. I've noticed their sizing isn't consistent though. Have 3different CM Punk shirts, all xl, and all varying in fit.

[Wishbone]

Haven't had an official WWE shirt since the first John Cena "Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect" one came out around WM 22. Still had that shirt until last year when it finally crapped out and the sleeve completely came off.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

That shirt never gave up broh.

[GD]

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[GD]

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